I saw a movie based on a true story about a woman who pretended to be a nurse, stole a sick baby girl, and then raised her to adulthood. The baby grew up to solve her own kidnapping case over 20 years later.
Oh yeah, Carlina White! I think it was Lifetime that did a movie about her story, about a decade ago now. I remember that because Keke Palmer played Carlina as an adult and teenager. (Editing this to say that it's on RUclips! "Abducted: The Carlina White Story")
If we are thinking of the same thing, The girl realized something was wrong based on the Birth certificate as the ink didn't seem right. Thus making her find out what was going on and finding out the truth about who she was. Also the birth parents thanked the woman who kidnapped their daughter for taking good care of their daughter but will never forgive the woman for the pain she put them through
iirc Dr Charles gets ticked at Sarah for pulling this stunt. You'll notice with further watching that Dr Charles is always careful with his words. He doesn't intentionally lie to his patients for the best outcome unless he believes the truth will cause them to guard themselves against his treatment or that they aren't capable of making the best decision for their own health. I love the way they've written Dr. Charles so much.
The woman is sick. The reason Dr Charles was upset about Sarah lying to the woman was because she will now be extremely distrusting towards doctors. That means her chances of having successful treatment for her condition are greatly diminished.
@@jenniferhardy8073 it's obvious the babie wasn't in any danger. They lied about it dieing and lied about protecting her after she handed it over. Then she looked over at her like she was proud of making her look like a fool. Doctors like that shouldn't ever get their license.
@@askjeevescosby2928 The baby possibly dying wasn't a lie, though - the kid had pneumonia, which can be fatal for anyone if untreated; and much more so for a small child.
@@foolslayer9416 That's all fine and dandy, but we have to be careful. Sometimes a suspect can go back on their confession because the cop promised nothing or some wild deal will be given to them. Cops and Dr's cannot make that promise. It's up to the DA. If a cop/doctor/whoever makes a promise to get a confession or get a suspect to surrender then it's always likely the accused will go back on their confession. That always ends badly. Also, this is a fictional situation. However, if someone thought of it to write it into a script, it's likely an every day person will think to do it or watch the show and get the idea to do it.
@@aklemon06 you're talking about lying to obtain a confession? I fail to see the relevancy to the video. A crazy lady stole a baby and the negotiators lied to save aforementioned baby from her, what possible consequences will be suffered? You don't try and reason with crazy, danverous people, you tell them what they want to hear till they let their hostage go and then you put the straight jacket on em and lock em away
@fortnitegameryo200 No. You try to get the truth. One wrong slip up could cause for their charges to be dropped or the trial (if/when it comes to that) to be dropped. I'm talking about reality and not television. In real world situations, it has to be proven without a reasonable doubt someone is guilty of their crime. Not because a cop or Dr told them it would be ok if they just surrendered right then and there.
@@aklemon06 Again, you're talking about court and confession and a bunch of other irrelevancy when the video is about a hostage situation, where the negotiating party told the hostage taker lies in order to get the hostage taker to release the hostage. Im saying hostage a lot to kinda drive the point about this NOT being an interrogation where a detective makes a deal with a suspect that the detective can't make good on, which is what you seem to be referring to for some reason
@@samg873not to scare patients but to make everyone aware of the situation thats what these codes are for so the appropriate people go to the appropriate place so actions can be taken whatever code it may be but code pinks are serious if this happened in real life you never know what could happen someone can grab a child and be out of the hospital in a matter of seconds so yes calling a code pink immediately is 100% necessary ik it can be scary but its 100% necessary
I mean if you're talking about the phone call Dr Halstead had then not really. All they knew was that the baby wasn't in the place they were expecting him to be. There could have been an error or a delay or she could have been taken to the wrong floor. They only knew she was missing once they spoke to the parents
@@inheritmyshoes9559 it's not about being a bad actress. in fact this makes her a wonderful actress. the premise behind her character is that her father is in fact a psychopath and a lot of how she was brought up was fuelled by manipulation and abuse. the whole point of her character is a weakness in empathy especially given her family background.
@@jiayiisconfused3103 no I get her character. I think she's a terrible actress. She plays that role terribly. I know what she's SUPPOSED to be acting like, but it doesn't work. She just comes off as a stand in reading the script with the real actors - zero depth, zero anything. Shame, because the actual storyline could have been great.
Sarah was a lot colder and clearly didn’t see her as a woman who meant not harm. Dr. Charles understood her pain and talked to her with the appropriate amount of compassion. Edit: oh my God, the lack of bedside manners is crazy. To look a worried mother in the eyes and say the woman probably wants to hurt her baby with no evidence 😱 girl do you not understand the situation you are in? This isn’t about your feelings or your own personal opinion.
Ok but to be honest, I wouldn’t have felt any sympathy for someone like her because of these SPECIFIC circumstances. She KNOWINGLY took a baby sick enough to be admitted into the PICU, there’s no way she wouldn’t have then understood that by doing so, that baby could have died (because a PICU only has children that need EXTREME care). Had the baby been healthy, then there may have been some room to try and empathize with her trauma, but her actions would’ve most likely led to ANOTHER family having just as much (if not more) trauma about losing their baby. Dr.Reese was prioritizing the baby that was CRITICALLY ill, and I don’t blame her because that baby needed care and was missing for HOURS (could’ve likely died within that time). Even if it wasn’t her intention, she was DIRECTLY harming that baby by not letting them get the care they need, and I think that justifies Reese lying to her (had she not lied, there’s a good chance Johanna would’ve resisted the security whilst holding a sick infant that could then be further injured!)
@@Noahkita7704its unknown whether or not the lady knows what the PICU is even for. She went one time for a vist months ago and went through a horrific moment of losing her child there. I doubt she has much knowledge of hospital locations/procedures. Heck, her last step of her "plan" was to hide in a place she was familiar with hoping to what not get found and then what after? She didnt have a plan after disguising as staff and obtaining a baby and was purely acting on her emotions and grief. Her intent was to just take a baby that she could have her hands on and it just so happened to be the sick kid. She removed everything on the baby thinking it was how it was following her not knowing about the medication *or maybe somehow leave the hospital and pass the baby as her own*. How is the lady supposed to know the state of the baby with no knowledge of whats wrong or how the baby is being treated? Heck, she lied about giving the baby a scan just to obtain the baby and all the staff found the request odd. The lady doesnt know anything. As for the lie, it was highly unneccesary. The lady knew something was wrong with the baby and wasnt a threat to it or anyone. She could easily just be kept in the room while the baby was moved to be treated and the lady would be detained calmly later after it was assured the baby was ok. The lady in her grieving way also cared for the baby and its why she surrendered the baby to her knowing she messed up. The only excuse for this lie would be if she had a sharp object with her and threatened either staff or the baby itself and have a "If i cant have.......then you cant have..." mentality which is plausible given the situation. *How did she take off the baby's tag without a sharp item in her possession?*
The woman was harmless after handing off the baby. They could have kept her in the room and take the baby away for treatment. Sure, she had some kind of sharp item to remove the tag but if she truly was dangerous, she would have brandished it and threaten to hurt the baby. "If i cant have it, they cant either" mentality or threathen security if they were percieved a threat to the baby. The therapist was clearly biased in her assessment. Yes, she planned to disguise herself as a staff to obtain the baby but after that, she had no plan nor was there any malicious intent with her actions. There was no option to escape for her. It doesnt excuse her actions of abducting someone's baby but the response definitely could have been more constructive for all parties.
The word that stood out to me was "promise". In medicine/nursing, we should never promise anything; we cannot guarantee an outcome. Joanna was already complying to what Dr. Charles was saying, receptive to his words and focusing on the baby's well-being, because ultimately, that's was Joanna wanted. Lying to her, focusing on her, is a distraction, because Joanna could easily turn around, be backed into a corner, and hurt herself and/or the baby. Diane Downs never kidnapped children; her MO was to kill her children to join her "boyfriend" because he didn't want kids.
Oh man, this is so sad! I remember her episode so well, of all the people to do this - I never imagined her! She and her husband were actually happy they got time with their baby before he died. I always imagined a good life for her...
Dr. Charles lied to the mom who had her baby addicted to drugs. That mom deserved to know that CPS would take the baby. He said nothing. Sarah did what she had to do, like he did in the episode with the addicted mom and baby.
@@feildhockeyfeildhockey5676 he didn’t lie. He just told her that the baby needed her and would get better whenever she help him that’s all he said he didn’t lie to her.
He never lied to her?? Everything he told her was true, he never said she’d keep the baby. Up until the mother held the baby she didn’t even want to keep him so that wasn’t even a concern
Yeah. Grievance or not, she would've made a grave mistake with the risk of a baby, and for what? It had to be done and why take chances if the signs of backing out is early.
"nothing bad will happen to you" "i will protect you" they just here to make sure the baby is safe" 3 lies and empty promises she is a awfull psycatriach
When a code pink is called all the large doors between each part of the hospital are locked down automatically. If theres a code pink you dont ask question first and call a code pink later. Like a code blue it's called immediately.
This series straight has episodes that involve people being overpossesive of their kids and think the people are trying to hurt them but all they're doing is helping.
post partum psychosis i think was her eventual diagnosis. meaning she had a break from reality and fully believed that the baby was hers, or that she was saving him. it's not that she thinks her loss is more important, she's living in a completely different reality
If anyone takes my baby.. idc if the doctors tell them a million lies. They definitely handled it better than me I would have had sis in a choke hold lol
but it is morally wrong to lie to someone like that. It’s reasons like this why people are afraid to tell the truth because they are promised that they will not be punished but they still get punished anyway
And those parents will likely never trust a hospital again...sorry, but I don't care about a kidnapper's feelings. She didn't care about the feelings of the mother of the child, did she?
One of the worst thing you could do is to never fulfill promises with negotiations. You always "we will try but no promises" the female doctor showed no mercy and assumed the woman who kidnapped the baby is evil. Regardless of what transpired she was still assuming she's bad. "But I gave you the baby" was probably the trigger to never trust the doctors anymore.
I get that, and it definitely was a mistake but also the baby was kidnapped on the way to the PICU, which means that it was very sick and every extra minute delayed the baby from receiving treatment, so the whole situation needed to be resolved fast or the baby could die. The doctor probably panicked and felt that if she didn't promise, the woman would not give the baby up, so she just said what she felt was needed to save the baby
It’s crazy how all these ppl in the comments are taking up for this woman and giving her an “empty promise” this woman was very calculated in what she did. Why have mercy on her?.
Because grief does strange and terrible things to a person's mind. It's called having empathy. Losing your baby is one of the worst things in the world for a person to go through. That empty promise only worsened that woman's already unstable mental state. As a doctor she's supposed tp help people, not make them worse. EDIT: To be clear, I'm well aware the baby's safety was top priority. I'm also not defending the woman's actions. I'm simply explaining why others are both feeling empathy for her AND criticizing the doctor.
@@ariadnefrolich7243 Her mental health wasn't the priority in this scenario. It was retrieving the baby safely, which they did. The woman's appropriate treatment could be worried about at that point. Being mentally unstable doesn't excuse stealing someone else's baby.
Because losing a baby at 22 weeks should automatically put you in the category of having a mental illness not to mention post partum. 1 out of 4 women know the feeling of being betrayed by her own body. 22 weeks is just long enough to be required by most states to have to make funeral arrangements. It's just enough time to have to send back all the gifts family and friends have sent. It's just enough time to cancel the baby shower and whisper over the phone why. It's just enough time to know if blue knit sweater your grandma made or the pink knit booties passed down through generations needs to be given to your cousin. No, the lady who kidnapped the child should not go to prison. She needs help processing her grief. Unfortunately, most women don't have strong support systems. Sure, cry a couple of days, of course, but everyone goes back to work including yourself, and the world doesn't stop just because your baby is dead. People need real help out here; a jail cell ensures they will not get it.
She made the right call. That baby was sick and could've potentially died. That woman's feelings at that time, did not matter, in comparison to the safety of the baby. Was it sad? Yes. Was it necessary? Yes. She was not in a rational state of mind, she wouldn't have listened to rational reasoning.
Personally, I think Sarah made the right call. The baby was sick with pneumonia; even if you're an adult, that sickness can kill you. Time was not on their side. And in situations like that, given her mental state, Johanna could have easily committed suicide and taken the baby with her. With a baby's life is on the line, say what you have to and do what you have to to save their life. The deranged kidnapper's feelings do not matter.
@@tgbluewolf Sometimes you have to live in the moment and let the future take care of itself. In the moment, getting that baby away from that disturbed woman, was more important than something that woman might do later on.
she’s obviously still grieving and no she’s not sick or a threat the way you worded that is rude and inaccurate she lost her baby at 22 weeks prematurely with her son and she is grieving hardly even tho it’s a show it’s unlikely a code pink for baby’s would be likely in hospitals now days especially in the nicu and the labor delivery cause the baby’s have ID tags either way and it matches the mothers also as far as the baby goes as being sick he could’ve gotten worse off and died because of pneumonia in a baby is so serious and her saying stay away was probably her thinking she was able to be a mother and is grieving she isn’t but in her heart she is 😢 it’s hard if you never lost anyone to understand also she could’ve had postpartum depression or psychosis which can be so common in mothers
@AvaGevingOfficial Poses as a staff member, steals a newborn and her body language and her words clearly indicate that she is a threat. If this isn't the definition of sick, I don't know what is. Her charges would carry seriously long sentences. Possibly life.
She’ll probably be charged with child endangerment. She never left the hospital with the baby and had no weapons or ill intentions. If she lost her baby, it’s likely she’s still hormonal and they’ll probably refer her for psychiatric treatment.
I think they handled this wrong. I think it would have been better to admit her into a mental health facility first while reassuring her that she is safe. Then after she understands how wrong her actions were and has recovered her mental health then book her into jail for the crime. Too many prisoners are in prison because of a mental health problem that only gets worse in prison. Because of this they get out only to continue their criminal behavior.
But if you treat them for their mental condition and then put them in prison that’ll just cause the issue all over again. If the person was in such an irrational state rehabilitation is the better option versus prison anytime.
@@samanthacallaway2276 But the US doesn't really offer rehabilitation that I know of and no government is going to allow a crime of this magnitude to go unpunished. If I had it my way our prisons would become mental health facilities with a focus on rehabilitation. But this isn't how it works. People are more interested in "justice" being served then in what's best for the criminals or society.
While she does have mental issues let me also say that technically she did show some degree of having planned this. So she needs both treatment & grief counseling but to also be punished for second degree kidnapping
Let’s pretend this were real, and that was YOUR baby whom was kidnapped by a deranged person. You wouldn’t be sympathizing with someone who kidnapped *your* baby. If it were my baby, I’d be telling the judge and jury to give her the maximum punishment.
Did this woman really expect to just walk away after kidnapping another person’s baby? Yes the doctor should not have promised her to keep her safe, but the woman should have also known better. Besides the parents of the child she kidnapped could press charges.
I know that what Sarah did technically isn’t 100% ethical, but honestly when a baby’s heath/life is at stake I feel like all that goes out the window. I would have told that woman literally ANYTHING in order to get her to hand that baby over.
No it was absolutely ethical. You’re under no obligation to inform a suspect about their situation until they’re in custody. They could have snuck up behind her, grabbed the baby, threw a bag over her head and then took her to the police station not telling her that she did anything wrong until they arrived. Police sometimes pull up in unmarked vans to grab people in plain clothes if they’re in a neighborhood where their squad cars and uniforms will make them targets
I think that the lie was the point. She'd been accusing this poor woman of having ASPD even though that's not the most obvious answer, then she calmly lies to her to achieve a goal, which is the sort of thing someone with ASPD does
There are so many cases like this and to be honest i feel bad for all mothers who have lost their child, and feel the need to kidnap another person's baby.
I don't see how she's in the wrong here. Patient was highly unstable, was agitated by presence of LEO, a possible threat to herself and definite threat to the baby. Sarah de-escalated the situation, kept it calm, played to exactly what the patient wanted to hear. She achieved a far more favorable outcome. As if telling the truth to her would've accomplished anything of benefit especially when time was of the essence. To me saving the baby's life was worth far more than any consequences for lying to her. Maybe I'm wrong.
that woman was suffering post partum psychosis, which is treatable with doctor's help. by lying to her, sarah ruined her trust in doctors, and it will be even harder to treat. they were making progress just by talking abt the baby being in danger, there was no need to make false promises. if the woman had directly asked "will you protect me? am i in trouble?" that's one thing but sarah is the one who introduced the idea of punishment to the situation, and then made false promises abt it
it is not about saving only one baby but having two patients. It wasn't just a mindless killer or kidnapper it was someone suffering from postpartum psychosis. As the other reply explained. In this, it showed that she made a choice out of bias and approached the woman with her own opinion of her without questioning anything else. Her treatment is now much harder to accomplish due to the patient's distrust of doctors. on-screen this is fine but since it represents accurate human emotion it is only natural for him to be frustrated and angry with someone who's so entitled to her opinions. It is hard to know if this was the only way to get the best outcome. That and the consequences of lying to that patient is hard to know but could have been way worse.
You are wrong lying to her may make her a bad person lying is not the solution here is what she should have done, look i know you lost your baby in a miscarriage and i know you are grieving your little one but this baby will not replace the one you lost this baby is very sick and his mother and father are grieving him as we speak your pain will not be cured by killing this baby without his medicine this baby will die and will not replace the one you lost and you will grief yet another baby and you will get the other parents to grief as well, if you do not give the baby back your sentence will be greater
you're probably young so that's why you don't understand how Reese is in the wrong. By lying and making promises she cannot keep, it's highly likely that the woman will develop severe trust issues towards doctors and medical staff especially given her condition, meaning she will have a low chance of tapping into effective rehabilitation and start the healing process. She could use this traumatic experience as her sole reason not to trust doctors, police, or anyone of that matter because to her, they took away the most important thing to her.
You are not wrong, that Dr. told her what she wanted to hear because releasing the baby immediately was the most important thing to do at that moment. Consider if she had told her the truth, yes you're going to be in trouble, yes, you will be confined to a psychiatric treatment facility and they will treat you & decide if you should be charged with anything at a later date & you may have to go to court & end up serving time in jail… would that have been better? Because that would have been the truth...
Seeing how she lied about something kind of angers me. Don't get me wrong I get why she did it. But it goes strictly against their oath. It goes against what they're being taught to be. She's broken many or Dr charles' rules and has tested his patience many many times. I'm surprised she hasn't been suspended yet by Dr charles. It may have been the correct choice for those who haven't been in the medical AND psychological fields but I can assure you that was the worst choice of option. She didn't know for sure what the woman was capable of and could've gotten the baby killed in the process. Making promises with a possible soon to be patient can get said patient to gain extreme trust issues. Some people do this out of trauma. And it may not be an excuse for behavior but it is an explanation for actions. Actions who'm are treatable if you take then serious enough. Some people just don't understand that and only care about one side of the party without thinking about the other side. Always look into these type of situations on both the medical side and the average human side. (Aka people who have no professional knowledge of medical terms, treatments and such) and don't forget the viewers side because they at least have the chance to look at both sides of the story. But chose not to because they don't understand most things
You pretty much answered yourself. She didn't know what the woman was capable of, and the baby could have died. The priority in that situation is getting the baby away from a mentally unstable individual as quickly and easily as possible. And the woman wasn't their patient either. As someone with a lot of psychological issues and diagnoses,(not any type of Doctor, I just deal with many many medical and psychological issues personally and in my family)I still 100% agree with what did. Better to lose her trust as a *possible* future patient, then to give her the slightest chance to harm the baby or someone else...
She wasn't there to help the woman. She was there to get the baby away from her before she could hurt the baby in her state. It would be cold comfort if the baby died because she was taking too long because she was trying to avoid actually lying to her. This is why you have police snipers. You can apologize later when the baby is safe. Her oath was "Do no harm". How do you think the woman would feel later if she actually caused the child's death in her state? If it was my actual child who needed medical attention, I wouldn't have a problem with doing whatever it took to get my child out of danger in the shortest time. Nor do I think would you.
@@justinchristoph3725 plus, she didn't technically lie. the punishment part? maybe. but when she said she would protect her, it did mean bringing her to a state where she wouldn't get further prosecuted for refusing to comply with officers / medical staff.
Every clip ive ever seen of this apprentice to charles gives me bad vibes. Shes very unfeeling, unremorseful unless she gets caught. She handles everything the exact wrong way knowing that its the wrong way. She e dangers patients like its a psychological game to her and she jusy wants to rock the boat of their mental stability.
@@lozzritchie2418 I have to disagree. She definitely seems unfeeling here, and if this was the only clip I'd seen I would agree with you, but I've seen other clips that made it seem like she was being written in a way that shows she's not cut out for the profession because she gets too emotionally invested, even more so than Dr. Manning. In one episode, she broke down crying in the bathroom after she broke the news to parents that their child had a severe degenerative disease. In another, she exploded in a fit of anger at the father of a patient when it was learned he assaulted his daughter. And in another she struggled to break the news to a woman that she wasn't actually pregnant and seemed extremely remorseful when the woman reacted badly even though she tried her best to be gentle in breaking the news.
Dr Reece for sure did the right thing, making sure that baby was safe and secure, it wasn’t the child’s fault, and he can’t be held responsible, the women on the other hand can, she can be referred for treatment to help her get over the loss of her own child, and wish she would get the best treatment, that how you handle a situation like this, a small lie to mask a painful truth
Although I do think it’s not a good idea to make promises to a suspect you can’t keep, if Sarah hadn’t lied to Johanna, I’m not sure how else she would’ve handed the baby over.
Dr Charles can be mad all he wants but first off, everybody lies. Second, sometimes exceptions had to be made and the important thing here is that the baby is safe and away from a woman who clearly needs psychological help and has proven to be untrustworthy and unstable, regardless of her past Sarah did what she had to do for that baby.
I blame Dr Manning! When the kidnapper came to the ED and delivered a premature baby that had no chance of surviving instead of telling the mother her baby was dying, she gave the kidnapper false hope by recessitating the child instead of letting nature run its course. Dr Manning shouldve prepared the kidnapper for the baby's death instead of giving her false hope and consulted with Dr Charles. It wouldve likely lessened the chances of the lady kidnapping the baby.
I read a comment blaming Manning on trying to save the baby and giving false hope on the mother, hence she turned to a baby kidnapper in this episode. There was closure in that episode, the mother thanked Manning for doing everything she can despite the very low chances of surviving and the baby ending up gone, yet writers decided she apparently didn't move on and kidnapped a baby....
I think people are being too harsh on Sarah. I've had a baby in intensive care and my god if someone stole him.... I would be huggging Sarah and thanking her for getting my baby back. I'm sorry but I wouldn't care about my baby's kidnapper. Yes her story is sad but she put the baby's life at risk. Sarah saw the baby as the priority which should be the right choice. Can people honestly say they'd rather the truthful route if it was their own child?
Sarah had some moments where she just assumed the worst of people and was just cold. She had some scary moments so I understand it for the most part. Didn't stop me from yelling at her more than once tho
Hey life isnt fair so expect liars from left to right and if you plan on doing something bad dont listen to anybody because they will do anything to stop you.
Can someone explain why when people grieve they tend to steal children, and other things and get caught doing so? It's not like it will help them get any better, no offence to anyone. Certain people need therapy and counseling big time. Edit: How did i get so many likes from this comment?! Wow
Sometimes compromising mental health conditions can cause people to think irrationally and makes it difficult for them to follow logic (as someone with an anxiety disorder, I speak from experience), which in turn causes certain behaviors to occur. It's still not ok, though. This video reminds me of a flashback in The Handmaid's Tale, before the rise of Gilead, when June is at the grocery store and a clearly mentally struggling woman or steals her baby from the cart and tries to run off with her. Security stops her and she gets arrested, and she is crying that the baby was given to her by God. It's a disturbing and anger-inducing scene, and it's harsh commentary on how society treats people who have reproductive difficulties or mental health issues. We can't defend the woman's actions, because they were awful. We can only explain the mental state that caused her to do what she did and hope that she gets help. The same applies here.
Grief does not play well with a rational mind. People under massive amounts of grief are under heavy emotional burden, and logical clear thought is nowhere on their radar sometimes. There really isn't any logic to be followed, bc its pure on the whim emotional impulse and short term thinking.
This is one of the reasons why Sarah frustrates me sometimes. Dr. Charles obviously has far more experience than her and she just ignores all of his explanations, thinking she knows best and has the correct theory. I know that she had a bad childhood with her father being a psychopathic serial killer, so I guess that is where she has learned to be so cold and manipulative like she was with Johanna. If Johanna goes even further off the deep-end, Sarah has only herself to blame for that empty promise. Any chance she had with trusting doctors is now out the window.
That doctor is sociopathic herself, no emotion. She will lie effortlessly just to get what she wants. But in this particular case she did the right thing, we don't know how disturbed the mother is, she could drop the infant or break his little neck in a heartbeat so the doctor did what she had to to save that little precious life.
@@Kiss_My_Aspergers Like here, episode starts with baby disappearing and hospital going into lockdown. The B-plots come from whom everyone gets stuck in a room with (including a doctor who just stopped by to drop off the divorce papers for her soon-to-be-ex-husband, which leads to them having break up sex) and what they do to pass the time (from playing truth or dare to taking a ton of Vicodin). I find them all boring except House's. The culprit is a nurse having "complex seizures," not knowing what she's doing, but the review I read said the medicine surrounding her "seizures" was way off, i.e. the baby is found in a housekeeping cart, but it's not like putting babies in housekeeping carts was a regular part of her routine.
@Julia V. McClelland Thanks for the explanation! Yeah. I think most doctors have claimed that, of the era, _Scrubs_ was actually the show with the most consistently accurate medical takes.
I think what people aren’t getting is that Sarah didn’t have to lie to diffuse the situation. There are a million different combinations of words that she could’ve said to reassure her that did not involve lying to her. Yeah it worked out in the end, but i’m def on dr charles side
Yeah like doctors and police officers and government employees never lie to get what they want. I’m pretty sure they would say whatever to get that baby and then put that woman behind bars.
Its not that simple. The woman lost a child, out of her own body for the first time and then her baby was suddenly gone. Grief, among other things are probably weighing her down, and she needed to have the sensation of having a child of her own in her arms.
When you're under a lot of stress and grieving, you don't think straight and you do very stupid things as a result of it. This poor woman should have had counseling - it's a very good thing this hadn't exploded i to something worse
If I were part of the team that found Joanna, I would have said, "I understand why you did this. You went into premature labor and lost your baby. It was very sad. I'm sure you know what it feels like to lose a child. Do you really want to put another couple through all that hardship that you went through? You know how much that hurts." I seriously want to give this woman a hug. 😭
If it were my baby and someone kidnapped him, especially in a calculated way such as this, I would tell a judge and jury to put her *under* the jail. Show no mercy.
@@dogboyirIuh no imagine if someone stole your child how would you feel you would want the worst things to happen to them especially because they took your child
So because you lost your child and felt as though your life is terrible, you decide to ruin another family’s life all because you were too emotional to accept your child’s death. Any defense for this women that doesn’t use the “mental health” or “She’s not in her right mind” excuse… No? ok then
You’re all taking the kidnapper’s side. Which is fair, she is a traumatized individual. But Sarah did what she had to do. The baby was sick and needed medicine fast, time was not on their side. It was very literally a matter of life and death.
Honestly, the way Sarah lied with zero expression was scary and impressive on the actress's part. First rule of hostage negotiation is building trust and not breaking it. It could have gone so badly if the kidnapper didn't believe her. There was a reason the head psych was side eyeing her. Her father was a psychopath and she was displaying those traits in that moment. Chilling. Not saying Sarah was one, just that she was showing some as alarming traits in the moment. I can see why he was so concerned.
I don’t feel pity for her. She kidnapped someone’s baby. Just because you lost your baby doesn’t mean you have to take away someone else’s and make them feel pain
If I worked under Dr. Charles, and did something that earned THAT look from him - the one that just screams ". . . So. Ya proud of yourself now? I hope youre proud of yourself. SOMETHING should come of you losing my respect." - I would probably never be able to lift my head again.
Put it into perspective, Whose safety is more important in this situation a woman who is mentally ill and need psychiatric help? or a an infant who can't breathe properly, is on life saving meds and is on deaths door?
I say this episode is a case of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." Yes this woman's trust in doctors was shattered, but that is a small price to pay when it saved the life of an infant. Let the legal system deal with the grieving crazy woman, the child here was more important. I think she did the right thing in this case.
Regardless of the woman's condition. You do whatever it takes to get the baby. Even if it means lying. It's impossible to know what is going on in someone's mind. I'm on the chicks side on this one.
I’m glad that we don’t use the term crazy anymore however, when some people think we’re about to say it when we’re not actually going to because well I think you pretty much know what I’m saying
Ugh whenever I watch clips of old episodes like this, I get more and more annoyed at Sarah. She’s so biased, assuming everyone is a psychopath. Even when it became clearer that the woman lost a child, she didn’t back down on her position.
I’m always conflicted when it comes to these situations? Yes it was wrong for her to kidnap the baby especially from a hospital…but at the same time I feel for her. She lost her baby and became emotionally distressed fearing that she might never have another chance to have a child of her own. Though her actions were not justified, all she really wanted was her own child, can’t really fault her for that. She obviously had not intentions of harming the baby as she understood the baby needed medical attention and willing gave him up. In these situations I personally feel that though ‘yes’ they should face punishment for their crimes, I also feel that prison won’t do anything to help them. Psychological care and counseling to help them heal and cope with their lose. And only after they have been cleared and officially dubbed mentally capable of caring for a child that they can be allowed to look into adoption. That’s just how I feel and I get that people are going to start arguing about it, I won’t reply to any of them I just ask please don’t be rude about it. Don’t be calling me ‘stupid’ or anything like that.
In the real world, this woman would not go to prison. She is mentally unstable when she committed the crime. She would be sent to a psychatric hospital.
I just don't understand why she took the i.v. out? As you said, she handed the baby over so he could get help, and the fact that he's a hospital patient in the first place shows that he needs help, so why hurt him by tearing the i.v. out?
I can't disagree strongly enough. If I took my son to the hospital and some "grief stricken" person kidnaps and endangers my child's life I could not care less about them or their feelings, I only care about getting my child back. NO ONE who kidnaps a child should be allowed to adopt, it doesn't matter what motivated them to do it, they need to face consequences for what they've done. Idc if its before during or after their grippy sock vacation they're seeing the inside of a courtroom. The female doctor was right about her carefully thinking this through. That suggests she had moments of lucidness where she was able to think through finding scrubs, picking a baby, blending in, sticking to a plan, having something with her to cut the bracelet off. Even just the fact that she removed the name bracelet but didn't actually try and leave she went somewhere to hide with him. My guess would be that the name bracelet ruins her fantasy of it being her baby if it has his real name on the bracelet. Removing the IV is probably the same, she doesn't want a sick baby she wants a healthy baby because she wanted her baby healthy. I think she had breaks with reality but this took planning and that shows forethought of what she's doing being wrong. But she did it anyway
@@arirose5887 if someone commits a crime in the middle of a psychotic episode, due to the psychosis, criminally charging them doesn't actually help anyone. getting them mental help ensures they are no longer a danger to themselves or society, and the carceral system is a cycle that ends up causing more crime. no one is saying she should get away with it, just that sending a woman to jail when she was clearly in the midst of a mental break, isn't a solution
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I saw a movie based on a true story about a woman who pretended to be a nurse, stole a sick baby girl, and then raised her to adulthood. The baby grew up to solve her own kidnapping case over 20 years later.
Oh yeah, Carlina White! I think it was Lifetime that did a movie about her story, about a decade ago now. I remember that because Keke Palmer played Carlina as an adult and teenager. (Editing this to say that it's on RUclips! "Abducted: The Carlina White Story")
If we are thinking of the same thing, The girl realized something was wrong based on the Birth certificate as the ink didn't seem right. Thus making her find out what was going on and finding out the truth about who she was.
Also the birth parents thanked the woman who kidnapped their daughter for taking good care of their daughter but will never forgive the woman for the pain she put them through
That poor girl
Was it the movie run?
movie name
pls
iirc Dr Charles gets ticked at Sarah for pulling this stunt. You'll notice with further watching that Dr Charles is always careful with his words. He doesn't intentionally lie to his patients for the best outcome unless he believes the truth will cause them to guard themselves against his treatment or that they aren't capable of making the best decision for their own health. I love the way they've written Dr. Charles so much.
That's what a real psychatrist would do.
He is my fav charecter
It wouldn’t surprise me if in another episode, that the board sanctions her.
@@hellscape7866 mine too
@@imadone She leaves the show
The woman is sick. The reason Dr Charles was upset about Sarah lying to the woman was because she will now be extremely distrusting towards doctors. That means her chances of having successful treatment for her condition are greatly diminished.
Maybe... but the womans future or a babys life? Anyone would save the babies life.
@@jenniferhardy8073 it's obvious the babie wasn't in any danger. They lied about it dieing and lied about protecting her after she handed it over. Then she looked over at her like she was proud of making her look like a fool. Doctors like that shouldn't ever get their license.
@@askjeevescosby2928 The baby possibly dying wasn't a lie, though - the kid had pneumonia, which can be fatal for anyone if untreated; and much more so for a small child.
@@jenniferhardy8073 amen
@@askjeevescosby2928 I beg to differ
If Johanna were to ever turn serial killer, that empty promise made to her would've been her trigger point🤦🏻♀️
It's okay to lie to crazy people for the greater good
Okay? And? She tried to steal another couples sick baby because she didn’t get herself help
To cope with the loss of her own. That’s her problem.
That's not how serial killers work, but, ok.
@@SoraShadowdancer Yea??? It kinda is??? Bro there's many different types of serial killers and reasons they start killing.
@@SoraShadowdancer actually it is, they become serial with triggers. That’s why your average person can become a serial killer
As a prior LEO, never make promises to a suspect you cannot keep.
She got the baby out of harm's way and away from the kidnapper. A lie is a small price to pay.
@@foolslayer9416 That's all fine and dandy, but we have to be careful. Sometimes a suspect can go back on their confession because the cop promised nothing or some wild deal will be given to them. Cops and Dr's cannot make that promise. It's up to the DA. If a cop/doctor/whoever makes a promise to get a confession or get a suspect to surrender then it's always likely the accused will go back on their confession. That always ends badly.
Also, this is a fictional situation. However, if someone thought of it to write it into a script, it's likely an every day person will think to do it or watch the show and get the idea to do it.
@@aklemon06 you're talking about lying to obtain a confession? I fail to see the relevancy to the video. A crazy lady stole a baby and the negotiators lied to save aforementioned baby from her, what possible consequences will be suffered? You don't try and reason with crazy, danverous people, you tell them what they want to hear till they let their hostage go and then you put the straight jacket on em and lock em away
@fortnitegameryo200 No. You try to get the truth. One wrong slip up could cause for their charges to be dropped or the trial (if/when it comes to that) to be dropped. I'm talking about reality and not television. In real world situations, it has to be proven without a reasonable doubt someone is guilty of their crime. Not because a cop or Dr told them it would be ok if they just surrendered right then and there.
@@aklemon06 Again, you're talking about court and confession and a bunch of other irrelevancy when the video is about a hostage situation, where the negotiating party told the hostage taker lies in order to get the hostage taker to release the hostage. Im saying hostage a lot to kinda drive the point about this NOT being an interrogation where a detective makes a deal with a suspect that the detective can't make good on, which is what you seem to be referring to for some reason
A code pink should have been called as soon as that phone call ended. Jesus Christ.
So they can scare patients? I was in hospital for three months. There was a code something every few days. Scariest thing ever
@@samg873not to scare patients but to make everyone aware of the situation thats what these codes are for so the appropriate people go to the appropriate place so actions can be taken whatever code it may be but code pinks are serious if this happened in real life you never know what could happen someone can grab a child and be out of the hospital in a matter of seconds so yes calling a code pink immediately is 100% necessary ik it can be scary but its 100% necessary
@@midnight_x_edits when I was in hospital it came across on pa there was a code blue in labor and delivery. The mom ended up dying
I mean if you're talking about the phone call Dr Halstead had then not really.
All they knew was that the baby wasn't in the place they were expecting him to be.
There could have been an error or a delay or she could have been taken to the wrong floor.
They only knew she was missing once they spoke to the parents
Don't use the name if God in vain
That woman needs more training. The head Dr keeps warning her of her mistakes & she won't listen or do better. She's gonna push him too far
She's so a bad actress
@@inheritmyshoes9559 it's not about being a bad actress. in fact this makes her a wonderful actress. the premise behind her character is that her father is in fact a psychopath and a lot of how she was brought up was fuelled by manipulation and abuse. the whole point of her character is a weakness in empathy especially given her family background.
@@jiayiisconfused3103 no I get her character. I think she's a terrible actress. She plays that role terribly. I know what she's SUPPOSED to be acting like, but it doesn't work. She just comes off as a stand in reading the script with the real actors - zero depth, zero anything. Shame, because the actual storyline could have been great.
@@inheritmyshoes9559 i miss her
That is the whole point, you can not expect great character from the start. Over time with the show she improves
Sarah was a lot colder and clearly didn’t see her as a woman who meant not harm. Dr. Charles understood her pain and talked to her with the appropriate amount of compassion.
Edit: oh my God, the lack of bedside manners is crazy. To look a worried mother in the eyes and say the woman probably wants to hurt her baby with no evidence 😱 girl do you not understand the situation you are in? This isn’t about your feelings or your own personal opinion.
Ok but to be honest, I wouldn’t have felt any sympathy for someone like her because of these SPECIFIC circumstances. She KNOWINGLY took a baby sick enough to be admitted into the PICU, there’s no way she wouldn’t have then understood that by doing so, that baby could have died (because a PICU only has children that need EXTREME care). Had the baby been healthy, then there may have been some room to try and empathize with her trauma, but her actions would’ve most likely led to ANOTHER family having just as much (if not more) trauma about losing their baby. Dr.Reese was prioritizing the baby that was CRITICALLY ill, and I don’t blame her because that baby needed care and was missing for HOURS (could’ve likely died within that time). Even if it wasn’t her intention, she was DIRECTLY harming that baby by not letting them get the care they need, and I think that justifies Reese lying to her (had she not lied, there’s a good chance Johanna would’ve resisted the security whilst holding a sick infant that could then be further injured!)
@@Noahkita7704I ain’t reading allat 🗣️🔥
@@Noahkita7704its unknown whether or not the lady knows what the PICU is even for. She went one time for a vist months ago and went through a horrific moment of losing her child there. I doubt she has much knowledge of hospital locations/procedures. Heck, her last step of her "plan" was to hide in a place she was familiar with hoping to what not get found and then what after? She didnt have a plan after disguising as staff and obtaining a baby and was purely acting on her emotions and grief.
Her intent was to just take a baby that she could have her hands on and it just so happened to be the sick kid. She removed everything on the baby thinking it was how it was following her not knowing about the medication *or maybe somehow leave the hospital and pass the baby as her own*. How is the lady supposed to know the state of the baby with no knowledge of whats wrong or how the baby is being treated? Heck, she lied about giving the baby a scan just to obtain the baby and all the staff found the request odd. The lady doesnt know anything.
As for the lie, it was highly unneccesary. The lady knew something was wrong with the baby and wasnt a threat to it or anyone. She could easily just be kept in the room while the baby was moved to be treated and the lady would be detained calmly later after it was assured the baby was ok. The lady in her grieving way also cared for the baby and its why she surrendered the baby to her knowing she messed up. The only excuse for this lie would be if she had a sharp object with her and threatened either staff or the baby itself and have a "If i cant have.......then you cant have..." mentality which is plausible given the situation. *How did she take off the baby's tag without a sharp item in her possession?*
@@zerodragonsaiyen3268so don’t but you’re wrong
@@Noahkita7704ain't nobody gonna read that lengthy ass paragraph of yours
I mean, in this situation, the number one fucking priority was getting the baby from the woman. You do what you have to do to protect a child.
I agree but the thing about about priorities is that there are many of them.
Joana is also clearly in pain and isn't a monster, Sarah was for lying.
The woman was harmless after handing off the baby. They could have kept her in the room and take the baby away for treatment. Sure, she had some kind of sharp item to remove the tag but if she truly was dangerous, she would have brandished it and threaten to hurt the baby. "If i cant have it, they cant either" mentality or threathen security if they were percieved a threat to the baby.
The therapist was clearly biased in her assessment. Yes, she planned to disguise herself as a staff to obtain the baby but after that, she had no plan nor was there any malicious intent with her actions. There was no option to escape for her. It doesnt excuse her actions of abducting someone's baby but the response definitely could have been more constructive for all parties.
@@rygornspectre7142
Tf? J was a monster that stole a sick baby.
S did what she had to too make sure Js actions didn’t lead to a dead baby.
The word that stood out to me was "promise". In medicine/nursing, we should never promise anything; we cannot guarantee an outcome. Joanna was already complying to what Dr. Charles was saying, receptive to his words and focusing on the baby's well-being, because ultimately, that's was Joanna wanted. Lying to her, focusing on her, is a distraction, because Joanna could easily turn around, be backed into a corner, and hurt herself and/or the baby.
Diane Downs never kidnapped children; her MO was to kill her children to join her "boyfriend" because he didn't want kids.
Oh man, this is so sad! I remember her episode so well, of all the people to do this - I never imagined her! She and her husband were actually happy they got time with their baby before he died. I always imagined a good life for her...
I remember that episode, that was so sad 😭
Is she the same grieving mother from the episode where a woman had her baby several months early?
@@punmasterlv1677Yes, she is
Problem was Dr Manning gave her false hope concerning her own baby's survival.
@@lethabrooks9112 Yes, Dr Manning caused her depression.
Dr. Charles lied to the mom who had her baby addicted to drugs. That mom deserved to know that CPS would take the baby. He said nothing. Sarah did what she had to do, like he did in the episode with the addicted mom and baby.
The difference there is directly lying, and lying by omission. Not sure which is more harmful.
@@Charlie-yv3ib I would say direct lying is worse!
When did he lie to the mother with the addicted baby?
@@feildhockeyfeildhockey5676 he didn’t lie. He just told her that the baby needed her and would get better whenever she help him that’s all he said he didn’t lie to her.
He never lied to her?? Everything he told her was true, he never said she’d keep the baby. Up until the mother held the baby she didn’t even want to keep him so that wasn’t even a concern
I'm sorry, but the opening scene with the little arms up in the air, uggghhhh, my heart 😫🥰
Necessary for an AP view chest xray.
I don’t think it was an empty promise. She wouldn’t get hurt: but clearly she needs help and needs to face justice.
Yeah. Grievance or not, she would've made a grave mistake with the risk of a baby, and for what? It had to be done and why take chances if the signs of backing out is early.
That is a fair point
"nothing bad will happen to you" "i will protect you" they just here to make sure the baby is safe" 3 lies and empty promises she is a awfull psycatriach
@Joana Rito Good thing she's not a psychiatrist, then. The guy with glasses is.
Yea because by law she kidnap a baby
“Somebody kidnapped our baby?”
“We can’t be sure about that.” 🤣
Omg
Seriously?
When a code pink is called all the large doors between each part of the hospital are locked down automatically. If theres a code pink you dont ask question first and call a code pink later. Like a code blue it's called immediately.
This series straight has episodes that involve people being overpossesive of their kids and think the people are trying to hurt them but all they're doing is helping.
It’s hard to feel bad honestly cause if your grieving why would you put another mother through that as if your loss is more important
post partum psychosis i think was her eventual diagnosis. meaning she had a break from reality and fully believed that the baby was hers, or that she was saving him. it's not that she thinks her loss is more important, she's living in a completely different reality
I mean, that’s the mentality of people today. Other people’s feelings don’t matter because you’re the one who’s important.
If anyone takes my baby.. idc if the doctors tell them a million lies. They definitely handled it better than me I would have had sis in a choke hold lol
Same.
but it is morally wrong to lie to someone like that. It’s reasons like this why people are afraid to tell the truth because they are promised that they will not be punished but they still get punished anyway
@@Greatj-Gil idc
@@Greatj-Gil take my baby i’ll lie to you too. Idgaf lol
@@Greatj-Gil it’s morally wrong to take someone’s baby. No matter how much you’ve suffered.
That woman will never trust another human being for the rest of her life.
That won’t be her biggest problem
And probably few will trust her, either.
@@tgbluewolf exactly! Trust goes both ways
No one should trust a baby thief
And those parents will likely never trust a hospital again...sorry, but I don't care about a kidnapper's feelings. She didn't care about the feelings of the mother of the child, did she?
One of the worst thing you could do is to never fulfill promises with negotiations.
You always "we will try but no promises" the female doctor showed no mercy and assumed the woman who kidnapped the baby is evil. Regardless of what transpired she was still assuming she's bad.
"But I gave you the baby" was probably the trigger to never trust the doctors anymore.
Who cares about the feelings of a crazy kidnapper?
I get that, and it definitely was a mistake but also the baby was kidnapped on the way to the PICU, which means that it was very sick and every extra minute delayed the baby from receiving treatment, so the whole situation needed to be resolved fast or the baby could die. The doctor probably panicked and felt that if she didn't promise, the woman would not give the baby up, so she just said what she felt was needed to save the baby
It’s crazy how all these ppl in the comments are taking up for this woman and giving her an “empty promise” this woman was very calculated in what she did. Why have mercy on her?.
Because grief does strange and terrible things to a person's mind. It's called having empathy. Losing your baby is one of the worst things in the world for a person to go through. That empty promise only worsened that woman's already unstable mental state. As a doctor she's supposed tp help people, not make them worse.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm well aware the baby's safety was top priority. I'm also not defending the woman's actions. I'm simply explaining why others are both feeling empathy for her AND criticizing the doctor.
You didn't saw her episode, did you?
@@ariadnefrolich7243 Her mental health wasn't the priority in this scenario. It was retrieving the baby safely, which they did. The woman's appropriate treatment could be worried about at that point. Being mentally unstable doesn't excuse stealing someone else's baby.
@@randymarshislorde Nobody's saying it is; explanations aren't excuses.
Because losing a baby at 22 weeks should automatically put you in the category of having a mental illness not to mention post partum. 1 out of 4 women know the feeling of being betrayed by her own body. 22 weeks is just long enough to be required by most states to have to make funeral arrangements. It's just enough time to have to send back all the gifts family and friends have sent. It's just enough time to cancel the baby shower and whisper over the phone why. It's just enough time to know if blue knit sweater your grandma made or the pink knit booties passed down through generations needs to be given to your cousin. No, the lady who kidnapped the child should not go to prison. She needs help processing her grief. Unfortunately, most women don't have strong support systems. Sure, cry a couple of days, of course, but everyone goes back to work including yourself, and the world doesn't stop just because your baby is dead. People need real help out here; a jail cell ensures they will not get it.
I love how the baby just looks right down the barrel of the camera and they kept it in lol. Fourth wall broken by a newborn.
She made the right call. That baby was sick and could've potentially died. That woman's feelings at that time, did not matter, in comparison to the safety of the baby. Was it sad? Yes. Was it necessary? Yes. She was not in a rational state of mind, she wouldn't have listened to rational reasoning.
Personally, I think Sarah made the right call. The baby was sick with pneumonia; even if you're an adult, that sickness can kill you. Time was not on their side. And in situations like that, given her mental state, Johanna could have easily committed suicide and taken the baby with her. With a baby's life is on the line, say what you have to and do what you have to to save their life. The deranged kidnapper's feelings do not matter.
They'd matter if they caused them to do more harm in the future.
@@tgbluewolf it’s either her or the baby, choose.
@@tgbluewolf good thing she immediately got arrested then
@@tgbluewolf Sometimes you have to live in the moment and let the future take care of itself. In the moment, getting that baby away from that disturbed woman, was more important than something that woman might do later on.
@@TheKennethECarper Exactly 💯
She did what she needed to get the baby secured.
The kidnapper even said "stay back" that alone is a threat.
she’s obviously still grieving and no she’s not sick or a threat the way you worded that is rude and inaccurate she lost her baby at 22 weeks prematurely with her son and she is grieving hardly even tho it’s a show it’s unlikely a code pink for baby’s would be likely in hospitals now days especially in the nicu and the labor delivery cause the baby’s have ID tags either way and it matches the mothers also as far as the baby goes as being sick he could’ve gotten worse off and died because of pneumonia in a baby is so serious and her saying stay away was probably her thinking she was able to be a mother and is grieving she isn’t but in her heart she is 😢 it’s hard if you never lost anyone to understand also she could’ve had postpartum depression or psychosis which can be so common in mothers
@AvaGevingOfficial Poses as a staff member, steals a newborn and her body language and her words clearly indicate that she is a threat. If this isn't the definition of sick, I don't know what is. Her charges would carry seriously long sentences. Possibly life.
She lied because that baby needed help, and you weren't going to let go.
oh i remember this episode, i was so surprised they brought her back..
She’ll probably be charged with child endangerment. She never left the hospital with the baby and had no weapons or ill intentions. If she lost her baby, it’s likely she’s still hormonal and they’ll probably refer her for psychiatric treatment.
Its still kidnapping whether you leave with the child or not
I love Dr Charles he is so Calm
Same
She lied to get the desired outcome
The baby could die
Seems more important to me 🤷♀️
She didn't lie to her she told her she would protect the baby
I think they handled this wrong. I think it would have been better to admit her into a mental health facility first while reassuring her that she is safe. Then after she understands how wrong her actions were and has recovered her mental health then book her into jail for the crime. Too many prisoners are in prison because of a mental health problem that only gets worse in prison. Because of this they get out only to continue their criminal behavior.
But if you treat them for their mental condition and then put them in prison that’ll just cause the issue all over again. If the person was in such an irrational state rehabilitation is the better option versus prison anytime.
@@samanthacallaway2276 But the US doesn't really offer rehabilitation that I know of and no government is going to allow a crime of this magnitude to go unpunished. If I had it my way our prisons would become mental health facilities with a focus on rehabilitation. But this isn't how it works. People are more interested in "justice" being served then in what's best for the criminals or society.
While she does have mental issues let me also say that technically she did show some degree of having planned this. So she needs both treatment & grief counseling but to also be punished for second degree kidnapping
great idea till you realize the baby would be dead by then.
Let’s pretend this were real, and that was YOUR baby whom was kidnapped by a deranged person. You wouldn’t be sympathizing with someone who kidnapped *your* baby. If it were my baby, I’d be telling the judge and jury to give her the maximum punishment.
That psychologist has really bad luck with assistants. She's a piece of work...
Did this woman really expect to just walk away after kidnapping another person’s baby? Yes the doctor should not have promised her to keep her safe, but the woman should have also known better. Besides the parents of the child she kidnapped could press charges.
I mean she was grieving so she probably wasn’t thinking straight
@@NartSadiku-ws4ow I agree, but still anyone could have figured out it end badly
@@jackieb.2642 it was probably a final moment thing for her but idk maybe like “at least i get to have you one last time”
I know that what Sarah did technically isn’t 100% ethical, but honestly when a baby’s heath/life is at stake I feel like all that goes out the window. I would have told that woman literally ANYTHING in order to get her to hand that baby over.
No it was absolutely ethical. You’re under no obligation to inform a suspect about their situation until they’re in custody. They could have snuck up behind her, grabbed the baby, threw a bag over her head and then took her to the police station not telling her that she did anything wrong until they arrived. Police sometimes pull up in unmarked vans to grab people in plain clothes if they’re in a neighborhood where their squad cars and uniforms will make them targets
Same!
I think that the lie was the point. She'd been accusing this poor woman of having ASPD even though that's not the most obvious answer, then she calmly lies to her to achieve a goal, which is the sort of thing someone with ASPD does
There are so many cases like this and to be honest i feel bad for all mothers who have lost their child, and feel the need to kidnap another person's baby.
Because it was their own flesh-and-blood of a new family member
However I'm not saying you're wrong to feel bad about all the mothers that have went through this but it's still considered kidnapping
@@EmoBro706. i know
I don't see how she's in the wrong here. Patient was highly unstable, was agitated by presence of LEO, a possible threat to herself and definite threat to the baby. Sarah de-escalated the situation, kept it calm, played to exactly what the patient wanted to hear. She achieved a far more favorable outcome. As if telling the truth to her would've accomplished anything of benefit especially when time was of the essence. To me saving the baby's life was worth far more than any consequences for lying to her. Maybe I'm wrong.
that woman was suffering post partum psychosis, which is treatable with doctor's help. by lying to her, sarah ruined her trust in doctors, and it will be even harder to treat. they were making progress just by talking abt the baby being in danger, there was no need to make false promises. if the woman had directly asked "will you protect me? am i in trouble?" that's one thing but sarah is the one who introduced the idea of punishment to the situation, and then made false promises abt it
it is not about saving only one baby but having two patients. It wasn't just a mindless killer or kidnapper it was someone suffering from postpartum psychosis. As the other reply explained. In this, it showed that she made a choice out of bias and approached the woman with her own opinion of her without questioning anything else. Her treatment is now much harder to accomplish due to the patient's distrust of doctors. on-screen this is fine but since it represents accurate human emotion it is only natural for him to be frustrated and angry with someone who's so entitled to her opinions. It is hard to know if this was the only way to get the best outcome. That and the consequences of lying to that patient is hard to know but could have been way worse.
You are wrong lying to her may make her a bad person lying is not the solution here is what she should have done, look i know you lost your baby in a miscarriage and i know you are grieving your little one but this baby will not replace the one you lost this baby is very sick and his mother and father are grieving him as we speak your pain will not be cured by killing this baby without his medicine this baby will die and will not replace the one you lost and you will grief yet another baby and you will get the other parents to grief as well, if you do not give the baby back your sentence will be greater
you're probably young so that's why you don't understand how Reese is in the wrong. By lying and making promises she cannot keep, it's highly likely that the woman will develop severe trust issues towards doctors and medical staff especially given her condition, meaning she will have a low chance of tapping into effective rehabilitation and start the healing process. She could use this traumatic experience as her sole reason not to trust doctors, police, or anyone of that matter because to her, they took away the most important thing to her.
You are not wrong, that Dr. told her what she wanted to hear because releasing the baby immediately was the most important thing to do at that moment. Consider if she had told her the truth, yes you're going to be in trouble, yes, you will be confined to a psychiatric treatment facility and they will treat you & decide if you should be charged with anything at a later date & you may have to go to court & end up serving time in jail… would that have been better? Because that would have been the truth...
Dr. Charles is the BEST for this kind of job.
Seeing how she lied about something kind of angers me. Don't get me wrong I get why she did it. But it goes strictly against their oath. It goes against what they're being taught to be. She's broken many or Dr charles' rules and has tested his patience many many times. I'm surprised she hasn't been suspended yet by Dr charles. It may have been the correct choice for those who haven't been in the medical AND psychological fields but I can assure you that was the worst choice of option. She didn't know for sure what the woman was capable of and could've gotten the baby killed in the process. Making promises with a possible soon to be patient can get said patient to gain extreme trust issues. Some people do this out of trauma. And it may not be an excuse for behavior but it is an explanation for actions. Actions who'm are treatable if you take then serious enough. Some people just don't understand that and only care about one side of the party without thinking about the other side. Always look into these type of situations on both the medical side and the average human side. (Aka people who have no professional knowledge of medical terms, treatments and such) and don't forget the viewers side because they at least have the chance to look at both sides of the story. But chose not to because they don't understand most things
It doesn’t matter what mental state she is in afterwords all that mattered was the baby's safety
You pretty much answered yourself.
She didn't know what the woman was capable of, and the baby could have died.
The priority in that situation is getting the baby away from a mentally unstable individual as quickly and easily as possible.
And the woman wasn't their patient either.
As someone with a lot of psychological issues and diagnoses,(not any type of Doctor, I just deal with many many medical and psychological issues personally and in my family)I still 100% agree with what did.
Better to lose her trust as a *possible* future patient, then to give her the slightest chance to harm the baby or someone else...
She wasn't there to help the woman. She was there to get the baby away from her before she could hurt the baby in her state. It would be cold comfort if the baby died because she was taking too long because she was trying to avoid actually lying to her. This is why you have police snipers. You can apologize later when the baby is safe. Her oath was "Do no harm". How do you think the woman would feel later if she actually caused the child's death in her state? If it was my actual child who needed medical attention, I wouldn't have a problem with doing whatever it took to get my child out of danger in the shortest time. Nor do I think would you.
@@justinchristoph3725 plus, she didn't technically lie. the punishment part? maybe. but when she said she would protect her, it did mean bringing her to a state where she wouldn't get further prosecuted for refusing to comply with officers / medical staff.
Their job is literally to help sick people
That disturbed woman will never make the same kind of deal ever again. And good luck getting her to trust another therapist
Dr Charles looked angry that his colleague lied to the grieving mother
Every clip ive ever seen of this apprentice to charles gives me bad vibes. Shes very unfeeling, unremorseful unless she gets caught. She handles everything the exact wrong way knowing that its the wrong way. She e dangers patients like its a psychological game to her and she jusy wants to rock the boat of their mental stability.
I wonder if it was meant to be revealed at some point that she, like her father, was a sociopath?
@@DasKree That's my thought!
@@lozzritchie2418 I have to disagree. She definitely seems unfeeling here, and if this was the only clip I'd seen I would agree with you, but I've seen other clips that made it seem like she was being written in a way that shows she's not cut out for the profession because she gets too emotionally invested, even more so than Dr. Manning. In one episode, she broke down crying in the bathroom after she broke the news to parents that their child had a severe degenerative disease. In another, she exploded in a fit of anger at the father of a patient when it was learned he assaulted his daughter. And in another she struggled to break the news to a woman that she wasn't actually pregnant and seemed extremely remorseful when the woman reacted badly even though she tried her best to be gentle in breaking the news.
Dr Reece for sure did the right thing, making sure that baby was safe and secure, it wasn’t the child’s fault, and he can’t be held responsible, the women on the other hand can, she can be referred for treatment to help her get over the loss of her own child, and wish she would get the best treatment, that how you handle a situation like this, a small lie to mask a painful truth
Actually, Dr. Reese wants to see her rot in prison. She doesn't believe Joanna deserves mercy or love and care.
I don't know this show well. Does Dr. Charles ever get a good person to work with? I've seen two that are know-it-alls, and thus do harm.
Although I do think it’s not a good idea to make promises to a suspect you can’t keep, if Sarah hadn’t lied to Johanna, I’m not sure how else she would’ve handed the baby over.
Dr Charles can be mad all he wants but first off, everybody lies. Second, sometimes exceptions had to be made and the important thing here is that the baby is safe and away from a woman who clearly needs psychological help and has proven to be untrustworthy and unstable, regardless of her past
Sarah did what she had to do for that baby.
I blame Dr Manning! When the kidnapper came to the ED and delivered a premature baby that had no chance of surviving instead of telling the mother her baby was dying, she gave the kidnapper false hope by recessitating the child instead of letting nature run its course. Dr Manning shouldve prepared the kidnapper for the baby's death instead of giving her false hope and consulted with Dr Charles. It wouldve likely lessened the chances of the lady kidnapping the baby.
I read a comment blaming Manning on trying to save the baby and giving false hope on the mother, hence she turned to a baby kidnapper in this episode. There was closure in that episode, the mother thanked Manning for doing everything she can despite the very low chances of surviving and the baby ending up gone, yet writers decided she apparently didn't move on and kidnapped a baby....
It’s sad to see that poor woman crying for her baby. She must’ve really cared for that child.
They locked the hospital down a day late and a dollar dollar short.
I think people are being too harsh on Sarah. I've had a baby in intensive care and my god if someone stole him.... I would be huggging Sarah and thanking her for getting my baby back. I'm sorry but I wouldn't care about my baby's kidnapper. Yes her story is sad but she put the baby's life at risk. Sarah saw the baby as the priority which should be the right choice. Can people honestly say they'd rather the truthful route if it was their own child?
Sarah had some moments where she just assumed the worst of people and was just cold. She had some scary moments so I understand it for the most part. Didn't stop me from yelling at her more than once tho
Hey life isnt fair so expect liars from left to right and if you plan on doing something bad dont listen to anybody because they will do anything to stop you.
Can someone explain why when people grieve they tend to steal children, and other things and get caught doing so? It's not like it will help them get any better, no offence to anyone. Certain people need therapy and counseling big time.
Edit: How did i get so many likes from this comment?! Wow
Grief can be extremely damaging to a person's mental state
Sometimes compromising mental health conditions can cause people to think irrationally and makes it difficult for them to follow logic (as someone with an anxiety disorder, I speak from experience), which in turn causes certain behaviors to occur. It's still not ok, though. This video reminds me of a flashback in The Handmaid's Tale, before the rise of Gilead, when June is at the grocery store and a clearly mentally struggling woman or steals her baby from the cart and tries to run off with her. Security stops her and she gets arrested, and she is crying that the baby was given to her by God. It's a disturbing and anger-inducing scene, and it's harsh commentary on how society treats people who have reproductive difficulties or mental health issues. We can't defend the woman's actions, because they were awful. We can only explain the mental state that caused her to do what she did and hope that she gets help. The same applies here.
Grief does not play well with a rational mind. People under massive amounts of grief are under heavy emotional burden, and logical clear thought is nowhere on their radar sometimes. There really isn't any logic to be followed, bc its pure on the whim emotional impulse and short term thinking.
@@emilyhedrick2851 June not Offred.
@@MsLovestory01 Yes, my apologies. I was thinking in terms of the book, not the tv show, just to clarify.
If I was that mother I would be screaming and crying like a baby and I would be like
I hope she was arrested for both kidnapping and infant endangerment.
This is one of the reasons why Sarah frustrates me sometimes. Dr. Charles obviously has far more experience than her and she just ignores all of his explanations, thinking she knows best and has the correct theory. I know that she had a bad childhood with her father being a psychopathic serial killer, so I guess that is where she has learned to be so cold and manipulative like she was with Johanna. If Johanna goes even further off the deep-end, Sarah has only herself to blame for that empty promise. Any chance she had with trusting doctors is now out the window.
That doctor is sociopathic herself, no emotion. She will lie effortlessly just to get what she wants. But in this particular case she did the right thing, we don't know how disturbed the mother is, she could drop the infant or break his little neck in a heartbeat so the doctor did what she had to to save that little precious life.
I like this show's version of this plot much better than House M.D.'s.
What was their version?
@@Kiss_My_Aspergers Like here, episode starts with baby disappearing and hospital going into lockdown. The B-plots come from whom everyone gets stuck in a room with (including a doctor who just stopped by to drop off the divorce papers for her soon-to-be-ex-husband, which leads to them having break up sex) and what they do to pass the time (from playing truth or dare to taking a ton of Vicodin). I find them all boring except House's. The culprit is a nurse having "complex seizures," not knowing what she's doing, but the review I read said the medicine surrounding her "seizures" was way off, i.e. the baby is found in a housekeeping cart, but it's not like putting babies in housekeeping carts was a regular part of her routine.
@Julia V. McClelland Thanks for the explanation! Yeah. I think most doctors have claimed that, of the era, _Scrubs_ was actually the show with the most consistently accurate medical takes.
I think what people aren’t getting is that Sarah didn’t have to lie to diffuse the situation. There are a million different combinations of words that she could’ve said to reassure her that did not involve lying to her. Yeah it worked out in the end, but i’m def on dr charles side
Yeah like doctors and police officers and government employees never lie to get what they want. I’m pretty sure they would say whatever to get that baby and then put that woman behind bars.
That distraught woman is selfish. She took another couples baby w/out any reguard to how they'd feel. That's selfish & cruel
Its not that simple. The woman lost a child, out of her own body for the first time and then her baby was suddenly gone. Grief, among other things are probably weighing her down, and she needed to have the sensation of having a child of her own in her arms.
When you're under a lot of stress and grieving, you don't think straight and you do very stupid things as a result of it. This poor woman should have had counseling - it's a very good thing this hadn't exploded i to something worse
That's not how grief works, it's not rational if severe enough.
She was grieving. Mental illness can mess a person up
It’s another case of “I would be a much better mother than the baby’s biological mother” or “I deserve a baby more than them”
Not one person in these comments would have been upset about how Manning handled that - if it was their own child she got back.
You can see how Dr.Charles was looking at Sarah in this episode and a couple other ones has me wondering is he wondering what has he helped create
im so happy that baby is back with her perents
I like how they are walking slow to find the baby. Yes I am being sarcastic.
If I were part of the team that found Joanna, I would have said, "I understand why you did this. You went into premature labor and lost your baby. It was very sad. I'm sure you know what it feels like to lose a child. Do you really want to put another couple through all that hardship that you went through? You know how much that hurts." I seriously want to give this woman a hug. 😭
Bro why did i get an ad when the doctor said " she didn't make it there... "💀
If it were my baby and someone kidnapped him, especially in a calculated way such as this, I would tell a judge and jury to put her *under* the jail. Show no mercy.
Needlessly cruel
@@dogboyirI you obviously don’t have children.
@@dogboyirIuh no imagine if someone stole your child how would you feel you would want the worst things to happen to them especially because they took your child
@@midnight_x_edits exactly!
@@dogboyirI absolutely not. I would do unspeakable things to protect my daughter. Until you become a parent you'll never understand.
I always thought it was crazy to let even a grieving mother get away with kidnapping, but I have to say that was pretty cold in the end.
The thing is it's really sad that there are women our there who kidnap other women's babies because they can't have any of their own it's a sad case.
Lady did you honestly think they would let you go?
So because you lost your child and felt as though your life is terrible, you decide to ruin another family’s life all because you were too emotional to accept your child’s death. Any defense for this women that doesn’t use the “mental health” or “She’s not in her right mind” excuse… No? ok then
It was wild watching Sarah’s character change...she went through so much
You’re all taking the kidnapper’s side. Which is fair, she is a traumatized individual. But Sarah did what she had to do. The baby was sick and needed medicine fast, time was not on their side. It was very literally a matter of life and death.
Agree
Honestly, the way Sarah lied with zero expression was scary and impressive on the actress's part. First rule of hostage negotiation is building trust and not breaking it. It could have gone so badly if the kidnapper didn't believe her. There was a reason the head psych was side eyeing her. Her father was a psychopath and she was displaying those traits in that moment. Chilling. Not saying Sarah was one, just that she was showing some as alarming traits in the moment. I can see why he was so concerned.
I don’t feel pity for her. She kidnapped someone’s baby. Just because you lost your baby doesn’t mean you have to take away someone else’s and make them feel pain
If I worked under Dr. Charles, and did something that earned THAT look from him - the one that just screams ". . . So. Ya proud of yourself now? I hope youre proud of yourself. SOMETHING should come of you losing my respect." - I would probably never be able to lift my head again.
Wait, so code pink is a hostage situation? I used to work for Walmart and a Code Brown over there was a hostage situation.
Code pink is missing baby
@@bimblebury7105 Oh ok
@@bimblebury7105baby or child
Put it into perspective, Whose safety is more important in this situation a woman who is mentally ill and need psychiatric help? or a an infant who can't breathe properly, is on life saving meds and is on deaths door?
7:57 “well well well if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions”
I don’t like her at all. She always make situations worse because she can’t ever listen to anyone else or do what other tell her who know better.
why would she lie to her, literally a trigger point if she was to actually become some type of killer
Sarah has the temperament of a Marvel villain. She should not be allowed to practice medicine.
I say this episode is a case of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." Yes this woman's trust in doctors was shattered, but that is a small price to pay when it saved the life of an infant. Let the legal system deal with the grieving crazy woman, the child here was more important.
I think she did the right thing in this case.
No matter the case. She was right to steal a baby from another mother is disgusting and heartless. You would have to be with conscious.
she should get help, not be arrested . so disturbing
Regardless of the woman's condition. You do whatever it takes to get the baby. Even if it means lying. It's impossible to know what is going on in someone's mind. I'm on the chicks side on this one.
I’m glad that we don’t use the term crazy anymore however, when some people think we’re about to say it when we’re not actually going to because well I think you pretty much know what I’m saying
Ugh whenever I watch clips of old episodes like this, I get more and more annoyed at Sarah. She’s so biased, assuming everyone is a psychopath. Even when it became clearer that the woman lost a child, she didn’t back down on her position.
My mom has to deal with people like this where she works
I’m always conflicted when it comes to these situations?
Yes it was wrong for her to kidnap the baby especially from a hospital…but at the same time I feel for her. She lost her baby and became emotionally distressed fearing that she might never have another chance to have a child of her own. Though her actions were not justified, all she really wanted was her own child, can’t really fault her for that.
She obviously had not intentions of harming the baby as she understood the baby needed medical attention and willing gave him up.
In these situations I personally feel that though ‘yes’ they should face punishment for their crimes, I also feel that prison won’t do anything to help them. Psychological care and counseling to help them heal and cope with their lose. And only after they have been cleared and officially dubbed mentally capable of caring for a child that they can be allowed to look into adoption.
That’s just how I feel and I get that people are going to start arguing about it, I won’t reply to any of them I just ask please don’t be rude about it. Don’t be calling me ‘stupid’ or anything like that.
In the real world, this woman would not go to prison. She is mentally unstable when she committed the crime. She would be sent to a psychatric hospital.
I just don't understand why she took the i.v. out? As you said, she handed the baby over so he could get help, and the fact that he's a hospital patient in the first place shows that he needs help, so why hurt him by tearing the i.v. out?
@@tgbluewolf my guess is she was planning to take him to a different hospital if she managed to leave with him?
I can't disagree strongly enough. If I took my son to the hospital and some "grief stricken" person kidnaps and endangers my child's life I could not care less about them or their feelings, I only care about getting my child back. NO ONE who kidnaps a child should be allowed to adopt, it doesn't matter what motivated them to do it, they need to face consequences for what they've done. Idc if its before during or after their grippy sock vacation they're seeing the inside of a courtroom.
The female doctor was right about her carefully thinking this through. That suggests she had moments of lucidness where she was able to think through finding scrubs, picking a baby, blending in, sticking to a plan, having something with her to cut the bracelet off. Even just the fact that she removed the name bracelet but didn't actually try and leave she went somewhere to hide with him. My guess would be that the name bracelet ruins her fantasy of it being her baby if it has his real name on the bracelet. Removing the IV is probably the same, she doesn't want a sick baby she wants a healthy baby because she wanted her baby healthy. I think she had breaks with reality but this took planning and that shows forethought of what she's doing being wrong. But she did it anyway
@@arirose5887 if someone commits a crime in the middle of a psychotic episode, due to the psychosis, criminally charging them doesn't actually help anyone. getting them mental help ensures they are no longer a danger to themselves or society, and the carceral system is a cycle that ends up causing more crime. no one is saying she should get away with it, just that sending a woman to jail when she was clearly in the midst of a mental break, isn't a solution
That empty promise just made a serial killer 😒
So sad someone kidnap a sick baby in the hospital. That was someone elses baby
baby’s a great actor
I feel bad about this woman but it doesn’t give her the right to kidnap someone else’s child
No one said she was justified
That exactly how I was for the past 14 years in and out of the er with the same disease.
In just happy that little munchkin is getting the help he so needs. I hope the woman is too, in therapy
It was very sad thing to see