1. nice cherry picking of the years for their most successful slam period. Djokovic’s most successful slam period is easily 2011-2016 and its not even close and his most common slam opponents were Murray, Federer, and Nadal at 10, 9, and 8 matches, and then you have other greats right up there like Wawrinka at 7, Tsonga at 5, and berdych and cilic at 4. So in reality without cherry picked stats Djokovic had the toughest competition in his most successful slam period out of the 3. But this makes sense tho as 2009-2016 is generally regarded as one of if not the highest level eras of all time, with its nickname literally being the ‘Golden Era’ 2. The grand slam h2h is laughable once you put it into context. The only reason Nadal had a winning h2h against Djokovic is because Djokovic was consistent enough to meet him at the french open 10 times while they were only able to meet at the AO 2 times, Wimbledon 3 times, and USO 3 times because Nadal wasn’t consistent enough on his lesser surfaces like Djokovic. If he was, they would have met at least a couple more times at each slam, most likely evening the grand slam h2h out or even Djokovic taking the lead considering he hasn’t lost to nadal off clay since 2013, but alas, Kyrgios, Brown, Kakushkin were too big of challenges for nadal at wimbledon. 3. Yes, obviously grand slams are not the be all end all of determining the GOAT, only casuals do that, but you conveniently left out every other major statistic and went immediately to the subjective opinions like dominance, popularity ect. Weeks at number 1, YE #1, Masters titles, h2hs, top 10 wins, winning percentage, and more are all stats that matter more than the subjective, and who leads in 99% of those stats? Djokovic.
@ while he won 1 slam less from 2011-2016 compared to 2018-2023, he was still far more consistent and lost before the semis only twice, and made 7 more finals compared to just 3 more. So really you can go with either one, i choose to go with 2011-2016 because it has more value due to the competition, and all my other points still stand.
@xaoc1537 are you slow mate? You're literally proving our point. Nobody said he played the best between 2017-23, but still that was FACTUALLY his most successful slam period. Idk what's to argue here. He won more slams during that time, simple, what's to argue with that? You're just proving our point as well by your statements. Acc to you, Novak played best between 2010-16, I agree absolutely, but you know why that still wasn't his most successful slam period? Bcs he statpadded the f*ck out of tennis in 2017-23, even after playing worse than his prime years. You're proving the point
@@xaoc1537 there is really nothing to argue, he won more slams between 2017-23, how else do you define "most successful slam win period" then mate? Nobody's said he played the best during those years, he played better in 2010s obviously, but still won less bcs the 2021-23 slam wins were absolute statpadz
@ damn your slow. Here, let me spell it out. Just like the GOAT race, slams aren’t everything. He won 1 more slam, but had less overall wins, lower win percentage and less slam finals. Also, Djokovic and Nadal played in the same era, so either they both stat padded or neither of them did.
No gymnastics (or contortions) needed. Just facts. Novak has had many factors favor him in regard to his having won 24 slam titles to Rafa's 22. The biggest factor being that the court surfaces at the slams wildly favor Novak (3 of the 4 giving him a clear advantage). So he really should have 3 times as many slam titles as Rafa. If Novak managed to win 24 with that huge advantage... then Rafa should have won just 8. Or looking at it from the other direction... If Rafa managed to win 22... then Novak should have won 66 GS titles. Novak came up 42 slam titles short. The second biggest factor is that Novak won almost all of his GS titles after Roger's peak was over. Roger won 16 of his 20 slam titles by 2010. Novak won 23 of his 24 slam titles from 2011 on. Rafa won 9 of his slams during Roger's early peak years... and then he won 13 during Novak's peak years. The third biggest factor is that Rafa missed 18 GS tournaments with all his injuries... while Novak missed just 3. The most impressive fact - is that Rafa's head to head record vs. these other two all time greats at the slams is so much better than the other two. Rafa was 21-11 (.656 W%) vs. Novak & Roger at the slams. Novak was 18-17 (.514 W%) vs. Rafa & Roger at the slams. Roger was 10-21 (323 W%) vs. Rafa & Novak at the slams. Rafa dominated his two great rivals at the slams... despite 3 of the 4 slams being played on a surface that favored Novak & Roger.
@ Both gymnastics and contortions are needed to overcome this comparison: Rafa (209 weeks) needs over 200 more weeks at #1 to tie Novak (400+) Rafa needs to finish #1 at the end of the the year 3 more times to tie Novak Rafa needs 2 more GS to tie Novak Rafa needs to win 4 GS in a row to achieve Novak’s consecutive slam. Rafa needs 1 more AO and 1 more Wimbledon to get his 3rd Career GS while Novak needs only 1 more FO for his 4th Rafa needs to win the Paris Masters and Miami open to earn his 1st Golden Masters while Novak needs only 1 more Monte Carlo for his 3rd. Rafa needs to win Indian Wells and Miami Open back-to-back 4 times to tie Novak’s “Sunshine Doubles” record Rafa needs to win the ATP Finals 7 times to tie Novak; 4 of them need to be consecutive While Rafa’s dominance at the FO is impressive, the flip side is that he has only won 3 consecutive GS once while Novak has done it 4 times. It also means that he has only won 3 in a season once while Novak has done it 4 times. Rafa needs to be named “Player of the Year” 3 more times to tie Novak Rafa hasn’t beaten Novak on a hard court in 10+ years.
@@aBeatleFan4ever “If” and “should have” don’t count as stats but I applaud the effort 👏🏻 Rafa is a great champion with many wonderful accomplishments however GOAT simply is not among them
The thing that I find so amusing about this "debate" is the fact that for years and years, all we heard was "Rafa has more GS titles", "Novak doesn't have Olympic Gold", and "Novak doesn't have the stats" but now that he DOES have the stats, the conversation has turned into what might have been, what could have been, what should have been, if only this, if only that, etc. etc. Ladies and gentlemen with all due respect, this is about what IS and not what might have been or should have been or what could have been. Statistics cannot be argued with hypotheticals
Im not a novak fan, but novak is the owner of rafa, there is no doubt about this. The fact that rafa hasn't even taken a set against novak in HC since 2013 us open is testament to this.
@@xxzeroxx8417 Novak is owner of your brains, who fail to see that Nadal was and will always be his biggest nemesis. Even he admits that. And here you and your puny little sense claims like he is owner or so. Dumbest comment.
@Rahul-Nalawade someone's angry😂😂. Rafa himself admitted Novak is the best player in the world and yet his clown fans cling on to the hope that he is the best😂
Novak won an awful lot of Majors when Nadal was out with injury. (The last 4 he won, for example.) Still, at Majors -- the most important tournaments -- Rafa is 10-4 against Roger and 11-7 against Novak. Rafa won 2 of 3 U.S. Open finals against Novak. Sadly, mostly because Nadal was injured so often, the last U.S. Open match they played was in 2013.
@@henry-bo3np Nadal hasn’t taken A SINGLE SET off Djokovic on hard courts since 2013. This should give you an idea of who actually benefited from not playing those games. Rafa wasnt winning these matches even if he was there, post 2013. All of his hard court slams in this period are from when he didn’t have to play Novak. With 2022 being the most obvious example. Djokovic isn’t there at his best slam, and this is the perfect chance for Rafa to grab the opportunity. The reason Nadal has a positive h2h against Novak at US open is precisely because they haven’t played there in his later years. Bizarrely, Rafa and Fed never played a US open match at all, by the way. These avoidances were a blessing for Rafa. If he ran into them more often, both his slam count and his h2h would tank. And Rafa was a savy player. He knew how to condition himself and get the most out of a season. That’s why for all his injury woes, he was mostly there for the clay season, where he knew he’d win plenty, then licking his wounds, dealing with injuries during the hard court swing, where he had very little chances in his later years anyway.
@@alexr7595 most of those matches on hard came in 2015 2016 when nadal was not himself at all barely top 10 player ok so post prime rafa struggling to win on hard against novak is one think but being 10-0 clay/grass when djokovic was young and it was until 2010 is wild ahahahahha keep crying. how many more slams novak need in his favor to get more slams than rafa he already has 2 and grass is even faster so its 3 basicly and facing way way easeir competiton is also wild heaving only 24 slam is a big L and even novak fans know that nadal in his prime was the best player by far and u cant deny it he got the most slams out of hardest years novak could not even beat post prime rafa on clay that often rather he took double bagel
@@kchuk1965 he should have 30 at least he missed only 3 he has 2 on hards he played mediocre players for almost a dacade 24 is preaty bad cosnidering nadal had to face at least a slam champion novak only faced medvedev who got a slam from him ahahahah and actually murray and wawrinka got most of slams from him i guess novak is slam maker ahahahaha
The only legitimate argument you can make for Nadal is that the toughest single challenge for any player in history is beating him in his prime at the French Open. So in a sense, that is the highest level we have seen, however in terms career accomplishments you cant argue he is better than Novak and I do think Roger was the better all around player as well.
I couldn't agree more. People who talk about numbers only, think about the millions of hearts he won and inspired an entire generation, that should count for something. Despite not being the highest gs winner, he is the most popular tennis player ever.
@@ahsanchoudhury9928 , he literally isn’t, lol. Federer is the list popular, always has been. It’s actually why Nadal is mostly left out of GOAT discussion nowadays. Because if you want to base it on actual accomplishments on the tennis court, you have to go with Novak. If you want to get all romantic and talk about vague things like grace, influence and aura, you go with Federer.
@ , well Federer has been retired for some time, while Rafa just played his last match. Naturally, you lose your popularity once you’re no longer relevant as an active player. But when they all played, Federer was the most popular. The media was hyping him into the stratosphere all the time.
Saying that Djokovics most successful period from 17-23 is a joke, he got injured in 2017 and didnt play till 2018 when he beat Nadal who was no1 in Wimbledon. Your take is a joke since youre biased, Djokovic won in 6 out of 6 finals in 2011 against prime Nadal who was invincible by anyone else but Djokovic. Nadal is a legend of the sport, goes neck by neck with Nole, but you can never say hes better than him.
@steffoneil wrote: "Your take is a joke since youre biased, Djokovic won in 6 out of 6 finals in 2011 against prime Nadal who was invincible by anyone else but Djokovic." Novak had that one great year vs. Nadal (in 2011). Besides that year - Nadal has him by a decent margin head to head... even though the surfaces across pro tennis heavily favor Novak. It's embarrassing for Novak that he really only had that one year of greatness over Rafa. He should have been winning 75% of their matches every year. The fact that the slam total is 24 to 22 while Novak had a huge surface advantage in 3 of the 4 slams... should be seen as a tremendous embarrassment for Novak.
@@aBeatleFan4ever that one year (2011) exactly proves who is better as both of them were in their prime. All those who claim Novak got the better of Rafa because Rafa was injured or not at his best...2011 is the great example to debunk this myth. Novak is the GOAT , no debate
Good analysis. If you are talking athletic dominance though Toni Bou has won 36 world trials championships, 18 indoor and 18 outdoor, both consecutively, and is still competing and winning world championships at age 38. The second greatest trials rider has 12 world titles. That is dominance.
Djokovic's head to head record against every player who has won a big title in the last 15 years. Nadal: 31-29 Federer: 27-23 Murray: 25-11 Ferrer: 16-5 Wawrinka: 21-6 Tsonga: 17-6 Del Potro: 16-4 Cilic: 19-2 Coric: 4-0 Zverev: 8-4 Thiem: 7-5 Dimitrov: 12-1 Isner: 10-2 Fritz: 9-0 Sock: 1-0 Medvedev: 10-5 Rublev: 5-1 Khachanov: 9-1 Tsitsipas: 12-2 Alcaraz: 4-3 Busta: 4-2 Sinner: 4-4 Fognini: 8-0 Hurkacz: 7-0 Norrie: 4-0 Rune: 4-2 Popyrin: 3-1
Federer’s greatest rival is Rafa Novak’s greatest rival is Rafa That says it all… Had nadal played all the slams for sure he would have claimed 27… There is a reason why Rafa’s fan followers in twitter, instagram is way more than Roger and Novak….he is the people favorite ❤❤❤ Kings of clay❤ ❤❤ Can anyone tell someone is king of grass or king of hard courts…. This also says it all 🎉 Vamos Rafa, what a man…. We love you very much, thank you man ❤❤❤
Out of the Big 3, Federer had the easiest path to stardom due to the fact that early in his rise, he did not have to fight against the other 2 greats, while Rafa (against Federer) and certainly Djokovic had to (against both Federer and Nadal). When Federer was ascending, Sampras and Agassi had already passed their prime, Hewitt and Roddick although no slouch, could not be considered all-time greats.
@@henry-bo3np don't lie yourself. Djokovic is easily greater champion, tennis player, athlete... Whatever you want to call him, he is simply greater winner in this sport than Nadal 🤣 more grand slams than Nadal, more masters than Nadal, Nadal never won 3 masters tours in his career, Djokovic won all of them at least twice, Djokovic won 7 Nitto ATP finals tours, Nadal never even won ATP tour. Not to mention that when you look at their domination per surface, you will see that gab between Djokovic and Nadal is far larger as Nadal only leads him at clay tours while Djokovic demolishes him on grass and hard courts... And of course weeks at number 1. Me and you are closer to Nadal's weeks at number 2 than Nadal is to Djokovic's weeks at number 1.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664, (1) except when Nadal is healthy. Novak won a lot of Majors -- including his last 4 -- when Rafa was not even playing. (2) IMO Rafa is the greatest tennis champion. (3) But that fact is that between Rafa, Novak and Roger, you cannot convincingly argue that one is "easily the greater champion." They are all GOATS. Rod Laver is in their class.
@@henry-bo3npthen nadal should have taken care his body like Djokovic did... Nadal is the only one of big 3 who did evolve. .. Just kept bringing intensity every single time... Not to say it's a bad thing but that why he was always injured... He chose to win that way... While novak chose to win not at the cost of his body by his efficient play
Nadal had to deal with a permanent injury called Mueller-Weiss syndrome that also affected other parts of his body and he still won 22 grand slams. That is good enough reason alone to prove he is the GOAT and if he was as lucky as Federer and Djokovic in terms of health he would've won at least 25 grand slams.
If... Would've... That is such a lovely thought but a hypothetical can't prove anything. It's just as easy to say that if he'd had even one less injury and, as a result, had competed in one more tournament that he could've been in a car accident at a location where he would not have otherwise have been
@@aBeatleFan4ever , what is this nonsense? If Nadal played with his right hand, he wouldn’t have the success he had. Being a lefty is a huge part of his competitive edge. It’s pretty much the reason he has a positive head to head against Fed. Heavy topsin forehand into Fed’s one handed backhand is what killed Roger, every single time. And just in general, it’s uncomfortable for the right handed player players to compete against the lefty because they’re not used to it. Federer and Djokovic would’ve handed right handed Nadal much easier.
Best video I have ever seen, awesome analysis and well put across, all and how u shared the data is awesome and true he is the goat there is no comparison
Dude, it's not even close. Djokovic is way ahead of Nadal. Djokovic vs Nadal Slams : 24 - 22 Masters : 40 - 36 World Tour finals : 7 - 0 Weeks at number 1 : 428 - 209 Year end number 1 : 8 - 5 Golden masters : 2 - 0 Career slam : 3 - 2 Olympic singles medals : 2-1 Won all 4 slams in a row : Yes - No Head to head : 31 - 29 And Nadal is retired now. Djokovic is still playing, hence he can widen the gap even further.
No matter how you look at the numbers, Djokovic is just the GOAT. However, I feel like you do make some valid points. It's because of these points as well as some others that I consider Nadal greater than Federer.
I 100% agree. This is an amazing video, I dropped a like to support this, hope it gets big. Here's one more stat that Novak fans won't like: How many grand slam finals have the big 3 lost to non-big 3 members? Federer: 1 Nadal: 1 Djokovic: 7
lmao arguments for fedal are always this weird specific stats nobody cares about meanwhile novak's claim is most grand slams, better h2h against both nadal and federer, most masters 1000 titles, only player in history to achieve the career golden masters (multiple times), most seasons with 3 GS titles, most weeks spent as world no.1, and so on and so on... Fedal fans will never get over the fact an underdog from a small country came in took the GOAT spot from your beloved westerners so you have to cope with some weird stats lol
@@cimi93x lol we aren't mad you just only look at the stats you that fellow Djokovic fans post everyday. Consider how Djokovic had way less competition than Nadal ever did and how he was luckier than both Fedal were and you'll understand that even though Djokovic is the greatest winning player of all time, he's not the greatest of all time, because he had less setbacks than Nadal did
@@royalpixelfam Djokovic and Nadal literally competed in the same era lmao and saying he had "less setbacks" is your way of coping with the fact that Novak is more durable, and took care of his body better, which is just another way in which he is greater than Nadal. Stay salty brotha
I remember long time ago a guy from Guinness book of records was explaining how they course what gets published. It has to make sense. For example, a guy writes that he did a hundred pushups with his girlfriend on his back. Then the Guinness guy explained... if we publish that, there will be another guy who did a hundred with a horse on his back. That's what's happening here. Fedal crowd putting horses, armadillos, hippopotamuses etc
I mean i understand your points and also points from others about Fed being the GOAT but still think Novak deserves it the most. Hard courts are the most competitive courts (most non south European and non Latin America players grow up on hard courts) and with 2 slams and most masters on the calendar being on hard courst including the atp finals which is the fifth most important title one can make the case that being great on hard courts is the number 1 priority of all players and Novak dominating all of them makes him the GOAT. And the fact Nadal never took a set off Djokovic on hard courts since 2014 also diminishes his case, and both Fed and Novak supprass him on grass. Putting rome as number 5 slam due to clay being non represented also forgets the fact that grass is even more non represented (there isnt a single masters on grass and before 2010 there werent even any atp 500 on grass).
Nice effort writing this up, but it wasn't really needed. Anyone who understands tennis, and has a clear mind, knows that Đoković is the goat. No ifs and buts, no wouldas, shouldas and couldas can change that. And it's been like that for a long time. The Olympic Gold had no impact whatsoever, that only has personal significance to Novak.
Besides considering the hypothetical of clay and hard courts having equal representation in grand slams, what other "what if" was presented in this 13 minute video?
I think djokovic and Federer are more consistently dominant due to their bodies being more durable but when they’re all at their peak I gotta go Rafa. When Rafa is on he beats everyone. Rafa at the 2010 us open is the greatest we’ve ever seen. He completely dismantled prime djokovic with his serve.
The tone of your video is largely respectful towards all big 3 guys so I won't accuse you of being utter fanboy. You have your preferences and that's ok. And it's a very nicely edited and narrated clip. Kudos. But you made many logical errors, something fanboys do. For example, you claim "Federer took advantage of early 2000s before Nadal and certainly Djokovic showed up", and similarly "Djokovic benefited from last phase, once Federer was old". For you, only Nadal faced them both while they were truly at their peaks or in primes? But Nadal and Djokovic are separated by mere 11 and a half months, there's not even a full year of age difference between them. They're literally same generation, what more can you ask? The age gap between Sampras and Agassi is bigger, being 16 months. Can you imagine anyone ever suggesting either of those, Sampras or Agassi, benefiting from age or peaks that don't coincide vs the other guy? And if it's not the age you talk about, but being "prime" or at his "peak", well, that's the whole point of goat chase. If you reach your prime at 18, and stay until 38, then surely you'll top everyone. Secondly, you take Nadal's positive h2h vs Federer/Djokovic in GS matches, but you're oblivious to the fact that they mostly met at the FO. You can't have it both ways, now can you? On one hand you claim Nadal was at disadvantage in GS title chase because only one out of four tournaments are at his best surface, but otoh you have no problems taking their h2h that benefits Nadal since they mostly met at FO, his best surface? E.g. Nadal leads 8-2 at FO vs Djokovic, that's +6, or 80%. But Djokovic leads 2-0 at AO, that's mere +2 but it's also 100%. What if they met 8 more time at AO? Would that not have improved overall Djokovic's h2h in GS matches and perhaps flipped it? See the logical error? Also, I just said that Nadal had only one GS at his preferred preference, but I'm not sure we can use that to argue even more for him. Only one GS title being on clay is not something that came suddenly. It's been like that for decades. If Nadal wanted to maximize his chances, improving on HC would have been "smart move" or focusing on HC from the very start. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I'm just countering your "excuse". Yes, it's not "fair" that there are 3 surfaces and 4 big ITF championships, but it's a setting that has been known in advance so if you want to chase slam titles you optimize for that setting which exists. Djokovic certainly "benefited" from HC oriented tour in amassing his #1 stats. But just like you argue for Nadal, that we shouldn't take his clay dominance against him, same goes for Djokovic. He was the one who exploited the HC oriented tour the most, so he's the one who gets credit. So no, Nadal is not the greatest, and simply can't be. In the end, your video is, sadly a failure, even though I concede one point you mentioned in latter part of your video, and it's something I totally agree with. Nadal's FO record and clay dominance in general is ludicrous. It's very difficult to use those achievements to say he's the greatest, since clay is just ine surface, and FO just ine tournament out of 4, but in comparison to him, Federer and even Djokovic seem only "statistically" better. 24 to 22 to 20 GS titles is being statistically ahead. But 14 FO titles is an absurdity when next best is 6. Tennis has imo two surreal records, Nadal's 14 FO titles and Laver's 2 Grand Slams. So the goat chase is: Winner: Djokovic. Not just because of GS title chase, but overall. Names that go with Djokovic for all eternity, Laver and Nadal. Federer will be there too because of the big 3 era, but Laver and Nadal have achieved something absurd. I'm most certain that Djokovic will lose his goat title sooner than Laver or Nadal get surpassed in their ludicrous achievements. So that's Nadal's place in history. Not as the greatest, but he's the one that can't be ignored. He's not the captain in Star Trek, but he's Mr. Spock. He's not the US president, but he's Benjamin Franklin. He's not the Oscar actor winner, but he's John Wayne e.g. Etc.
With all due respect for everything Nadal did... He is not even 2nd greatest tennis player of all time. I don't compare him to Djokovic because it is obvious: most grand slams, most masters, more than 2 times more weeks at number 1 than Nadal, he leads him in everything... I just use arguments for Federer who is 2md greatest player of all time because people think it is close between Federer and Nadal when in reality it's only an illution. Nadal has 2 more grand slams than Federer, but that's only because Nadal is the most dominant clay champion ever. Federer has much mire Australia Open titles, he has way more Wimbledon titles and even more US titles. Now let's talk about masters tours because Nadal has 36 and Federer has 28, but Federer never won 2 masters tours while Nadal never won 3 of them and Federer has more masters titles on 5 while Nadal has more masters titles on 4 masters tours. Soo Nadal has more grand slams and more masters titles, but Federer has more different grand slam titles and more different masters titles than Nadal. Just because Nadal stat-padded on one surface doesn't make him better than Federer, it makes him more specialist. And what about Nitto ATP finals tour??? Federer won that tour 6 times in his career while Nadal never even won that tour. That's 2nd biggest tour in tennis history after grand slam tours. And of course, how can you decide who has been greater if you don't consider the fact who stayed more time as the best tennis player in the world? Federer has 310 weeks at number 1 while Nadal has 206. Soo stop it, Nadal is phenomenal tennis player, one of the greatest athletes ever, but Nadal is definitely not the GOAT in this sport. He is only the best one surface player in tennis history.
Nadal definitely had a better career than Federer. Federer didn't even win a quarter of the slams Rafa and Nole won after 30, most of his slams were before prime Djokovic and Nadal and it's a fact, the competition was weaker, you can check ELOs and what not. And Federer has a losing record against Djokovic in WB, his best surface so he's not even the goat in his surface. You can't blame Nadal for being a god on clay. He is not as good on hard courts as Federer or Djokovic definitely but it's a combination of multiple things. In his prime, he could beat both of them on any surface. ATP finals is definitely a blemish in his resume but Federer having one RG is worse (the only reason he won is Rafa was taken out by Soderling). He couldn't touch Rafa there, ever and only dominated their H2H in the later years, when Nadal lost a lot of his speed with Mueller-Weiss and knee injuries. Prime Federer had better seasons though, but career wise Nadal anyday. Mentally he doesn't even rate to Nadal, even if you're a Fed fanboy.
You are right about one thing. It is not close at all between Rafa and Roger. Roger should have won way more than Rafa. But he has a pathetic record vs. his biggest rivals at the slams. Roger 10-21 (323 W%) at the slams vs. Rafa & Novak. Novak 18-17 (.514 W%) at the slams vs. Rafa & Roger. Rafa 21-10 (.656 W%) vs. Roger & Novak at the slams. Rafa holds this huge lead over his biggest rivals... despite the fact that 3 of the 4 slams are played on surfaces that heavily favor both Roger and Novak. There is NO reasonable argument that puts Roger ahead of Rafa. NONE.
@@aBeatleFan4ever there are plenty of reasonable reasons to put Federer and Djokovic over Nadal, that's because they are more complete tennis player ls than Nadal, especialy Djokovic, waay more complete player than Nadal🤣😂and again. Do you know why he has winning record against them at grand slams??? Because again with Nadal it's all about clay 🤣🤣🤣Federer and Djokovic played way more matches against Nadal on clay than on other tours and that's why Nadal has advantage😂 because literally Nadal run from Djokovic multiple times at Australia and even at Wimbledon because Djokovic was destroying him on those surfaces. You can say that either he run from Djokovic or he wasn't good enough to go further to face him, no matter which option you choosez it's not a good look for ONE OF THE GOATS. From 2013 Federer defeated Nadal 6 consecutive times on hard courts. From 2013 Djokovic defeated Nadal 9 consecutive times at hard courts... Again, Nadal is flay specialist, he was most dominant player on that surface than amy tennis player in history and he is the one who benefited the most from his surface than any other player in history. All other players had to win a lot more titles on another surfaces to be soo great. Nadal literally like I said, he has lower winning % than Djokovic, Federer and Sampras on all grand slams.
@@Blue-ik8ij yeah, but that's why before 30 he won the most grand slams than any tennis player in the history. Yeah, you can definitely make an argument that if Djokovic was the same age as Federer and if his prime was in 2006-2007 and not 2011, Federer would have even less grand slam titles. But in the same way, Djokovic is the biggest reason ehy Federer hasn't won more grand slams in his career. He faved Nadal only 32 times while he faced Djokovic 50 times. Literally in 2011 he was playing outstanding tennis and he didn't won grand slam because Djokovic defeated him at Australia Open and US Open. Than in 2014- 2015 Federer literally defeated everyone at Wimbledon, nobody could match him other than Djokovic, Djokovic absolutely stole those Wimbledon titles from Federer because he was insanee in that time. Not to mention that 2019 Wimbledon... I've never seen greater player at one grand slam tour at 37 years of age than Federer. Literally he played incredible semi-finals against Nadal beating him in 5 sets and than to lose against Novak in finals while being statisticly better player than him in that finals... That waa probably the biggest defeat by a all time great tennis player. He had momentum, he had support from crowd and to lose on a such bad way... Literally nobody other had a chance against Federer that day.
Agree totally. Nadal is simply NOT an all court player compared to Djokovic, AND Federer. For me the fact he hasn't won an ATP final, is a massive hole in his resume, that 2 clay slams do not make up for.
2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic.
amazing video! I always wondered why it felt that nadal was the best out of them but not in total grand slams. This video helped explain that feeling. Thank you 🙏
No way, Nadal never won the 5th most important tournament, which is the ATP Finals (where both rivals dominated), he won too much on one surface only, has so many weeks at n.1 less than his rivals (less than Sampras, Connors, Lendl too), and beside Roland Garros has less Grand Slams in each of the other three than both Djokovic and Federer.
Lol, that's not his problem though. Federer won one slam on clay, and that too coz Nadal got taken out by Soderling. He rarely won slams after 30, and has losing H2H against both Djokovic and Nadal but i don't see that come up often. Fed even has awful record against Djokovic in WB when he's supposed to the grass GOAT. I agree he should have won at least one ATP final but he missed many editions because of injuries and other issues. And obviously Fed and Nole are better indoors than Rafa easily, and that's what you get for being stuck in the primes of two other GOATs.
yeah, numbers and more numbers... it all goes down to personal preference. And the GOAT debate is stupid in my eyes. Roger, Rafa and Novak are all GOAT in their own rights. Plus, isn't it enough to be great? why do you need to be the greatest? To me, it is just a stupid notion. Rafa was a force of nature with exceptional skills and he inspired so many people to watch and play tennis. I got exited about tennis with Borg in Wimby, then I got bored with Sampres era, and Nadal was the one who brought me back. Thanks to Nadal, I am a tennis fan today and a tennis player, so, thank you Rafa, you are great, and that's enough for me.
I loved your argument because I prefer Rafa over Novak and Federer. A guilty confirmation bias on my part because all the stats suggest Djokovic has better objective stats..Respect all three, but heart is with Rafa and my mind+heart with Novak
Djokovic has a positive head to head record against every top player. He also has the most wins against top 5 and top 10 players in history. Apart from having every record.
I don't particularly care about subjective debates such as who is the goat. However, your argument in 5:40 is very flawed. First of all, to say that "he never had that luxury" is ridiculous given that he is one year older than Djokovic and he played during his time as well, he had "that luxury " he just couldn't do it. Second of all, Djokovic's second most successful slam period goes from 2011-2016 when he also won as many GS's as Rafa in his most successful period (11 slams), I wonder who his most common opponents were during this period?
Totally agree with you. The person who made this video is delusional Nadal fan. As you mentioned argument at 5:40 is so flawed...my question to this person is did Nadal stopped playing after 2019? he just couldnt win as much as Novak
You are delusional if you cannot take the fact that most of the slams won by Djokovic was when Federer wasn’t there. Another perspective: Let’s count slams from the year Djokovic fist won (2008) to the year Federrer last won (2018). RF: 9, RN: 13, ND: 12 From: Aus Open (Jan 2008) To: Aus Open (Jan 2018) Slams Played during this time: RF: 38/41, RN: 36/41, ND: 40/41 So, in-short Federer dominated early years, Nadal middle years & Djokovic dominated last years. Still supports the author’s claim. Even after missing 5 (most slams) during these years, Nadal still has the most slams. Am I delusional? or You?
@@Rahul-NalawadeFederer was playing pretty well throughout the 2018 season with a high ranking so why did you not include the rest of 2018. By doing so you completely ignored that from 2008 to 2018 I think Novak won 14 grand slams but 12. Nadal too I think won 14 slams as well, so in your question they are pretty much equal. And even if you ignore my comment, based on your analysis, you should not make such a big conclusion based on a single slam difference between nole and rafa. If you do, I hope you realise that majority of tennis fans consider the period 2008-2016 as the toughest era of men' tennis and in that period rafa won 11 slams whereas nole won 12 slams. So even in the strongest era nole has won the most with Roger, rafa, Murray, wawrinka being his consistent opponents in slams. This point is missed by all nole haters and probably by the author as well. So strong era or weak era, Novak is always at the top level.
The GOAT list is pretty easy. 1.1 Djokovic 1.2 Federer 3. Nadal You could debate between Federer and Djokovic all day but Nadal is by all metrics on 3. If Grand Slams had different surfaces it would all change but Nadal is a sand specialist and had no rival on this surface, racking up 14 of his 22 Grand Slam Titles on sand. The other surfaces where 3/4 GS were played were way higher contested. That can be seen by Nadal "just" winning Wimbledon and AO twice. (And the AO 2022 were highly questionable imo)
Rafa is the ultimate warrior, but the G.O.A.T is Djoko. He beat both Rafa and Roger in their Center Courts against unfriendly clouds. Who can seriously claim that Rafa and Roger could beat Novak in Belgrade ?
This is what I have been saying to myself. But, no one could understand unless they see the bigger picture. When I was kid it was Roger battling Nadal and when m adult its Djoker fighting him in his career end. Poor Nadal had born few years later, another world another story.
@@Rahul-Nalawadeare you for real... As if only nadal was sandwitched... Djokovic is 1 year younger than nadal....was as good of a teenager as nada... Idk wt.. Is wrong with you people as if nadal is 10 yr older than djoko
Some people say that Djokovic is not the greatest because it's not all about numbers. When you ask those same people why is Nadal the greatest clay court player ever they will tell you ''because he won 14 RG, 11 MC...''. Sport is not an art. If you are the greatest in your job, then nothing is impossible for you. Federer and Nadal are the most worshiped tennis players ever, but being the most worshiped doesn't automatically means being the greatest. Being the greatest in your job is not something that someone is giving to you. You go out there and you either get it or you don't. There is no voting.
If Nadal had more slam wins they would've used that as the main reason why Rafa is the greatest. In fact, pre-2011 the Rafa-Federer fans used to make and share memes about this stuff.
This was well put together, thank you. There are a few more points as well here. Aside from the constant injuries which affected his career, Rafa has always been the constant professional throughout his career. He and Federer won all the Sportsmanship awards. So here are the other points: 1. Clay season is about 2.5 months long whereas hard courts are about 7 months long. This greatly exaggerates the rankings records. 2. Rafa has the record for most year end top 2 finishes because of this by 2 over Novak with a total of 15. 3.Rafa beat Roger on all surfaces in Grand Slam Finals, only one to do it. 4. Novak has been swept in Grand Slam Finals 5 times, Roger and Rafa only once. Rafa got both Roger and Novak this way. 5. Rafa won the Clay Slam and Summer Slam, Roger and Novak never did. 6. The longest match winning streak ever across all 3 surfaces belongs to Rafa with 32. He went through Roger at the 2008 French, Novak in the Queens Final and Roger again at the Wimbledon Final to do it. Just a few thoughts here. He’s my best choice too. Vamos Rafa even retirement!
@@henry-bo3np Because they would turn up to face him on clay. Off of clay, Rafa couldn't beat either of them even once since 2014! And before all the injury excuses come out, he did challenge them decently in several matches during that period, but could only ever bring it home on clay.
@@zetristan4525, actually, Rafa defeated Roger in the GOAT 2008 Wimbledon final and in the 2009 AO final, and beat Novak at the U.S. Open finals in 2010 and 2013. Rafa "brought it home" on every surface. And you know it. Rafa is one of just 4 players ever to have won each Major at least twice.
We can debate what stats should be considered to be the GOAT of tennis. We haven't even talked about how Rod Laver was banned from tennis in the pre-Open era for 5 years because he was paid as a pro and yet he managed a calendar year Grand Slam in the year before and the year after the ban. Had he been allowed to play those 5 years, he might hold the record for most Grand Slams. All I will say is Djoker has a lot of great stats on his side to be considered the GOAT, Federer was the first of the 3 to dominate the way they all have and the first to truly take tennis to a whole other global level of recognition and Nadal has been my favorite player both on and off the court for his demeanor and mental toughness. If I had to pick one of the three to play for my life in their primes, I would pick Nadal simply because of his never-give-up attitude. And as the author of this video correctly asks, why is it that 2 of the Slam venues are hard court? Shouldn't each court be a different surface? The only question is what else is there besides grass, clay and hard court?
An extremely disengenous video full of mental gymnastics. This is full of whataboutery. There is absolutely no point in saying rafa would have won more titles if there were more clay slams. Its like saying he would have far less if there was no clay at all. The fact that djokovic won more was because he eas more versatile. Simple as that. Its like saying Federer could have won more if there more grass court events. You are engaging in pointless whatabaoutery. 2. You conveniently ignore facts which dont suit you. Nadal hasn't taken a set against novak in HC since 2013 uso. Novak has more total masters, more weeks at no 1. Rafa has never won an year end ATP finals. The fact of the matter rafa is a one dimensional player, tho a very great player. But on the other surfaces he jist doesn't cut it compared to novak and Federer. 3. Since 2011, besides clay nadal jas beaten novak just once in slams in the uso 2013. Since 2011 AO : Novak leads 2-0 Wimbledon : 2-0 US0: 1-1. Novak has dominated nadal in the other surfaces just as rafa has dominated him on clay. These are things you don't want to see. 4. Coming to the point you made about how rafa had to play against tye person with 47 slams, is just a downright nonsensical argument. Why is it that for instance, novak's most common opponent since 2017-2023 is not nadal. There is no questioning or analysis of that. You just patch things onto your narrative. And when you had mentioned the slam count that each player played against, none of them even had those many slams at that particular point in time 😂. And another thing you conveniently ignore was Djokovic absolutely trashed nadal in nadals prime of 2011. Djokovis's prome coincided with rafa's and the end result was bad for rafa.The fact is rafa just wasn't good enough against novak. 5. Coming to the injuries. It just doesn't matter. The fact that he was plagued with so many injuries eas because of his playing style. That is the price he paid for winning 22 slams and putting his body through that immense strain. If rafa had a chance at being more injury free, he wouldn't have won half as much. I think there really is no argument to be maid about rafa being the goat. He is the greatest clay court player and i think he will be the greatest in clay forever. But he will never be a goat. At the end of the day novak has all the records. Hes won almost everything, while rafas hasn't ever won an year end or many other ATP 1000s. And novak also has a better h2h against rafa. The fact is rafa was second best and he should be happy with it . And this is coming from a fed fan.
bs even 2 olympics got purposely put on grass just to try helping federer not on clay but karma won murray walked away with it...... 2 gs per year on clay and raffa would have shitload of gs
@ Coulda, woulda, shoulda - goes for Rafa just as much as it does for Fed. This is not about fantasy sports and both of them are WAY behind Novak’s stats. I’m so sorry 🙏🏻
@@MariaPina-Mousseau Greatest rival and greatest of all time are entirely different things. Both Fed and Rafa had some amazing stats and are great champions but neither has the numbers
Yes, interesting perspective on this but.... Djoko leads also in H2H w/Nadal and in M1000, of which many are clay, and in total titles. Surely the GOAT.
@@henry-bo3np I can't take credit for this comment but let this sink in: Rafa (209 weeks) needs over 200 more weeks at #1 to tie Novak (400+) Rafa needs to finish #1 at the end of the the year 3 more times to tie Novak Rafa needs 2 more GS to tie Novak Rafa needs to win 4 GS in a row to achieve Novak’s consecutive slam. Rafa needs 1 more AO and 1 more Wimbledon to get his 3rd Career GS while Novak needs only 1 more FO for his 4th Rafa needs to win the Paris Masters and Miami open to earn his 1st Golden Masters while Novak needs only 1 more Monte Carlo for his 3rd. Rafa needs to win Indian Wells and Miami Open back-to-back 4 times to tie Novak’s “Sunshine Doubles” record Rafa needs to win the ATP Finals 7 times to tie Novak; 4 of them need to be consecutive While Rafa’s dominance at the FO is impressive, the flip side is that he has only won 3 consecutive GS once while Novak has done it 4 times. It also means that he has only won 3 in a season once while Novak has done it 4 times. Rafa needs to be named “Player of the Year” 3 more times to tie Novak Rafa hasn’t beaten Novak on a hard court in 10 years.
@@pjesf - Novak's lead in year end #1s and in weeks at #1 or mostly due to all of Nadal's injuries. That and the fact that there surface advantage heavily favors Novak (and Roger). So it's actually amazing that Rafa is anywhere near to either of them in any of these stats.
@@henry-bo3npthey met each other 10 times on rafas best and noles worst slam and only twice n noles best and rafas worst slam. 10 times at RG and 8 times at all 3 others slams.
You picked the wrong years to suit the agenda. Djokovic's most successful 7 year period is 2015-2021 13 slams against 12 (2017-2023) I suppose if you took the right timespan, Novak's opponents would be Nadal (22) Federer (20) and one between Murray and Medvedev
To say Djokovic's favourite surface is hardcourt is foolishness. Djokovic has 4 US Opens, 3 Cincinnati masters, 4 Rogers cup and 5 Indian wells masters. Djokovic has 7 Wimbledons and 6 Rome masters titles. Claydal has 14 Roland Garros, 11 Monte Carlo, 12 Barcelona, 10 Rome, 0 Miami, 0 Shanghai, 0 tour finals, 0 Bercy and 1 Cincinnati. Nadal was just a clay court specialist.
Nadal never dominted whole seasons like Federer and Djokovic did. That should be taken into consideration as well when comparing their achievements. Just like weeks at the top. And didn‘t Djokovic win each Slam at least three times?
Novak's most successful period is not from 2018 to 2023 but from 2011 to 2016. A lot of information thrown in without any context. Novak profited because of 2 hard slams? Well he and Nadal have the same number of US Open titles (4) Novak is the master of the Australian Open, in a similar way as Nadal is at Roland Garros. Nadal unfortunately has 2 slams with 2 titles each, that's where he lost the race, because he never managed to win the AO and the WB since 2010 (I don't count the covid AO where Novak was banned from playing)
@@dzailibu, you're right. It is delusional to think that every time Rafa was out with injury that Novak was the best player remaining and, so, won a lot of tournaments. And so dangerous too, haha 🙂
@henry-bo3np ah, ok. We are back at "injuries". Those ones that never happen during the clay season. How do we know if Rafa was injured? He won, he wasn't injured. He lost, he was injured.
Nice try. Novak is certainly the GOAT. The debate arises as to who the 2nd greatest is. Probably Nadal, though you could make a strong case for Roger too.
Um... no. Greatest on clay for sure. Definitely the best at certain times. Sandy Koufax was the greatest pitcher for 6 years. Doesn't make him the GOAT. He couldn't beat Fed or Novak on grass or hard court for nearly 10 years (more for Djoko). Never winning an ATP Final against the 8 best players of the year is a huge indicator he's not the GOAT. Look at who they played while winning Grand Slams. Nadal feasted on players who are not great on clay. And what about Master 1000s? Compare Novak vs. Nadal on all 3 surfaces and you'll see the gap on grass and hard court is much bigger than Nadal's gap on clay. Lets not even discuss the 2022 AO. I could go on and on. Just say Rafa's your favorite player and don't embarrass yourself
Loved the video!!!! When the field is weak, and only 3 guys shine, someone has to win. Those guys are phenomenal, excellent, superb, champions. Stick them in the 80/90s. They will win, but not as much because the field was so so so much wider. Those 3 are super important to the sport and Tennis HOFs!
2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic. Nadal fanboys are just fooling around.
I love Nadal but the video is a totally flawed GOAT argument. Djokovic is the GOAT for holding almost all records in tennis including grand slams. Notwithstanding, Nadal finished his career 2nd best all time, and by far the greatest clay player of all time.
As far as your first point goes, Djokovic is just one year younger than Nadal. Talking how he enjoyed couple of "easier" years with "ageing" Nadal is ridiculus. Nadal was playing in the same curcimstances, he just wasn't able to use it to his advantage same way, but still got two RG titles in a row beating Thiem and two hard court slams beating Medvedev. When it comes down to your other point, I will put it like this. His dominance of clay is like no other, but clay makes only 1/3 of surfaces used in tennis. And as much as he is more on the other two surfaces than people give him credit for, he isn't really in the same league there as Federer and Djokovic. For instatnce, Nadal is the only one who would enjoy 4 losses in a row against players outside of top 100 at a single slam event. And this talk about two slams on clay. If they replaced one of the hard court slams with clay, it would work for Rafa's advanyage indeed, but let's say they just switched us open or ao to indoors. Nadal would finish without career slam. So yeay, those kind of arguments are double edged sword.
What a video mate, what a video. Just incredible. Deserves 1 million views. The tennis pundits never mention the context in this debate, all they talk about is blind statistics. You know why? Bcs they are federer fans who turned into Novak fans. Glory hunters to be specific. But context > blind statistics
Need more facts and context?2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic.
terrific video . Borg and laver are still there - rather than completely excluded in this conversation. Rafa's win against federer on his surface in the greatest match of all time ; along with his dominance against him on clay does give him a strong argument against the 'current goats' .
@@cimi93x - Novak never beat Rafa at the French... when he was healthy. Rafa beat peak Roger at Wimbledon (and very nearly beat him two years in a row).
Who was Federer's greatest rival? Nadal. Who was Djokovic's greatest rival? Nadal again. But that doesn'matter. Firstly, to all who are arguing against the video, and for the video itself, there is no such thing as the Greatest of All Time. In any sport. Comparing between eras, between generations, and contexts is impossible. Every sport has a Pantheon of Greats, players who stood out from the rest of their peers. Laver, Emerson, Rosewall, Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Agassi, Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and a few more. That's it. Rest of the debate is just an endless maze with no existing conclusion.
fed - rafa 40 meetings, 16-24 fed - nole 50 meetings, 23-27 nole - rafa 60 meetings (29 on clay), 31-29 rafas greatest rival was nole and fed greatest rival was nole too! fed was useless vs rafa on clay (2-14), and had just little over 50% on HC (12-10). bad matchup. nole had greater succes vs rafa on clay (9-20) than rafa vs him on HC (7-20).
2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic. Here are the facts. Don't try to fool around forever
Between 2011 - 2016 (when Federer, Nadal, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro,Cilic, etc were all on top), Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters titles, 4 tour finals titles and was number 1 for 230 weeks. But Djokovic's dominant period according to this Nadal fanboy is 2017-2023.
😂 Because he won more in 2017-2023, 12 slams. Deal with it. He played better in 2010-16, but won more in 2017-2023 FACTUALLY? YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE 2017-2023 WINS WERE STATPADDED, especially the 7 slams in 2021-2023. You’ve put all the dots, just join them.
@@cagedfighterwildlife1484 Now let's compare. 2011 - 2016 period : 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals, 230 weeks at number 1. Now to the 2017-2023 period : 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles, 180 weeks at number 1. Now tell me which period is superior 😆 🤣 😂 😹?
You hit most of the key points that make a legitimate argument for Nadal being the greatest men's tennis player. I'd add his phenomenal Davis Cup record. He was the best ever in Davis Cup play. And I'd add that Rafa won a GS singles title in 15 different years. More than any other player. And I'd add the fact that he has the record for the longest winning match streak on a surface There are two reasons why Novak has more total GS titles than Rafa. 1. Rafa missed 18 GS tournaments with injuries - while Novak has missed 3. 2. Novak got to play 3 of the 4 GS tournaments on his best surfaces - while Rafa got to play just 1 of the 4 on his best surface. If Rafa had that surface advantage... his lead in total GS titles would be huge. He would be at least ten titles ahead of Novak.
Nadal is the only player who managed to surpass both Federer and Djokovic during their primes. He achieved this while conceding Roland Garros only once between 2005 and 2014. Taking the decade 2005-2014 into account, Nadal is the best player of the Big 3 based on several metrics: Grand Slams Nadal: 14 Federer: 13 Djokovic: 7 Masters 1000 Nadal: 27 Federer: 16 Djokovic: 15 H2H Nadal vs. Djokovic: 23-19 Nadal vs. Federer: 23-10 H2H in Grand Slams Nadal vs. Djokovic: 8-3 Nadal vs. Federer: 9-2 Weeks at No. 1 Federer: 250 Nadal: 141 Djokovic: 126 Year-End No. 1 Federer: 4 Nadal: 3 Djokovic: 3 -- Four Key Points: - Nadal's biggest issue was consistency and, to a lesser extent, injuries. This is reflected in the number of weeks he spent as World No. 1. - 2011 remains the best season in tennis history, significantly superior to 2015. - Post-Wimbledon 2014, Nadal experienced a slump that lasted 2.5 years. Upon returning, he could only compete with Federer and Djokovic on clay. - Not winning the ATP Finals is the biggest flaw in Nadal's case. Beyond the surface factor, failing to win this tournament weighs more than the achievement of winning all the Masters 1000. That is a secondary accomplishment and not decisive in determining the best player.
@@silentvoice59 It’s not cherry-picking. These are the numbers that encompass Federer’s prime and part of Djokovic’s prime. After Wimbledon 2014, Nadal and Djokovic didn’t simultaneously compete at a high level again until mid-2018 (Wimbledon 2018). Statistically, Djokovic is the GOAT.
Excellent presentation, but with Italian Open Grand Slam and "Mario"😉Berrettini, you're indulging in imagining a bit of fantasy tennis world. Have you seen how many bad bounces at the Italian Open and other clay tournaments? And on grass too. There's a reason why real tennis is played mostly on hardcourts. On clay, obviously whoever puts the most junk on the ball has a huge advantage. If you go through a tournament many times without dropping a set, you don't have a very competitive field (But on the truer surfaces, they would win a set -- and you walk a tightrope against the big servers too). I like it if there are not too many aces. But clay protected Rafa from his weakness: that besides his brilliant serving at the end of 2010, he didn't develop his serve like eg Djokovic did. I loved the claycourt epic matches, but I still thought I might be biased in my assessment against the surface, until I saw horrific injuries like Zverev's (and I don't even support Zverev). I've seen too many moments where players stop for the wind to blow clay dust all over them while they try to shield their eyes. So Rafa is by far the greatest with his fortitude to pile the junk on the ball no matter the adversity. He made his backhand great too, and his handskills, volleys and overheads were awesome. (Toni and he messed up with the brutal training sessions tho, while Roger and Novak took amazing care of their bodies). Mentally, only Djokovic is better at walking the pro tennis tightrope. Openmindedly, I went to play at a local claycourt. Saw I didn't need to serve fast anymore: I mostly served heaviest kickers so opponents couldn't predict the bounce well. Hope that if we do get a 10th Masters 1000 (in Saudi or wherever), it will be on grass or medium-slow hardcourt.
"Mentally, only Djokovic is better at walking the pro tennis tightrope." Really... then why did he just barely win more than half of his slam matches vs. his two greatest rivals..? Rafa 21-10 (66%) vs. Novak & Roger at the slams. Novak 18-17 (51%) vs. Rafa & Roger at the slams. Roger 10-21 (32%) vs. Rafa & Novak at the slams. And Rafa has this huge lead... despite the fact that 3 of the 4 slams are played on surfaces that heavily favor Novak & Roger.
@@aBeatleFan4ever Your numbers don't add up (49-48 totals). Otherwise, 2 reasons: Fed and Djok turned up regularly to face Rafa on his surface. And clay is the surface where the specialist is most guaranteed to win. On eg hardcourt, the match can get away from even the most expert if the other guy has a good serving day. (There's a reason Rafa earned 64% of his impressive Slam total at one tournament. It's a bit like playing Marion Tinsley at checkers, not much chance to surprise him: I'd much rather invest in trying to beat Magnus Carlson a couple times at speed chess.)
Everyone's gonna have their opinion on who they think is the greatest of all time you can try and prove it to me but I know who the greatest is and it's not Nadal he is a close second
Sorry to disappoint you but records proves that Djokovic is the greatest of all time and it’s not close . Nadal can’t win the atp finals,Indiana wells and Bercy ,his just 208 weeks as world no.1 not even in top five and less than half of Djokovic’s. There is no narrative that can make up for those records .
Bunch of Novak biased fans in here, Novak had the biggest advantage of 2 Hard courts as GS. Wake up. People in here acting like clay isnt part of tennis. Rafa in his prime is unmatched
@@sportsmags most grand slams, better h2h against both nadal and federer, most masters 1000 titles, only player in history to achieve the career golden masters (multiple times), most seasons with 3 GS titles, most weeks spent as world no.1. Absolutely nothing else needs to be said, he is unequivocally, undeniably the greatest of all time, you don't have a point mate, you're just coping lol
@@sportsmagsWith all due respect for everything Nadal did... He is not even 2nd greatest tennis player of all time. I don't compare him to Djokovic because it is obvious: most grand slams, most masters, more than 2 times more weeks at number 1 than Nadal, he leads him in everything... I just use arguments for Federer who is 2md greatest player of all time because people think it is close between Federer and Nadal when in reality it's only an illution. Nadal has 2 more grand slams than Federer, but that's only because Nadal is the most dominant clay champion ever. Federer has much mire Australia Open titles, he has way more Wimbledon titles and even more US titles. Now let's talk about masters tours because Nadal has 36 and Federer has 28, but Federer never won 2 masters tours while Nadal never won 3 of them and Federer has more masters titles on 5 while Nadal has more masters titles on 4 masters tours. Soo Nadal has more grand slams and more masters titles, but Federer has more different grand slam titles and more different masters titles than Nadal. Just because Nadal stat-padded on one surface doesn't make him better than Federer, it makes him more specialist. And what about Nitto ATP finals tour??? Federer won that tour 6 times in his career while Nadal never even won that tour. That's 2nd biggest tour in tennis history after grand slam tours. And of course, how can you decide who has been greater if you don't consider the fact who stayed more time as the best tennis player in the world? Federer has 310 weeks at number 1 while Nadal has 206. Soo stop it, Nadal is phenomenal tennis player, one of the greatest athletes ever, but Nadal is definitely not the GOAT in this sport. He is only the best one surface player in tennis history. Here are all the arguments while Nadal will never be the GOAT.
@@cimi93xmost Nitto ATP finals titles in tennis history. Argument that all of you forget about and that's 2nd biggest tennis event after grand slams. Nadal won that tour 0 times...
@@sportsmags Watching all 3 from 2007 i dont need your delusional points...i mean you have the numbers how can you argue with numbers. so just stop it. Djokovic is the GOAT and he would have won atleast 2grand slams more if it wasnt for covid and restrictions. get over it and accept it,you will fell better
Well when Nadal himself has grudgingly acknowledged Novak as the GOAT, not once but twice, such claims for usurpation of that coveted Sobriquet is nonsensical.
1. nice cherry picking of the years for their most successful slam period.
Djokovic’s most successful slam period is easily 2011-2016 and its not even close and his most common slam opponents were Murray, Federer, and Nadal at 10, 9, and 8 matches, and then you have other greats right up there like Wawrinka at 7, Tsonga at 5, and berdych and cilic at 4. So in reality without cherry picked stats Djokovic had the toughest competition in his most successful slam period out of the 3. But this makes sense tho as 2009-2016 is generally regarded as one of if not the highest level eras of all time, with its nickname literally being the ‘Golden Era’
2. The grand slam h2h is laughable once you put it into context. The only reason Nadal had a winning h2h against Djokovic is because Djokovic was consistent enough to meet him at the french open 10 times while they were only able to meet at the AO 2 times, Wimbledon 3 times, and USO 3 times because Nadal wasn’t consistent enough on his lesser surfaces like Djokovic. If he was, they would have met at least a couple more times at each slam, most likely evening the grand slam h2h out or even Djokovic taking the lead considering he hasn’t lost to nadal off clay since 2013, but alas, Kyrgios, Brown, Kakushkin were too big of challenges for nadal at wimbledon.
3. Yes, obviously grand slams are not the be all end all of determining the GOAT, only casuals do that, but you conveniently left out every other major statistic and went immediately to the subjective opinions like dominance, popularity ect. Weeks at number 1, YE #1, Masters titles, h2hs, top 10 wins, winning percentage, and more are all stats that matter more than the subjective, and who leads in 99% of those stats? Djokovic.
2010-16 is not the most successful slam period. (11 SLAMS WON)
2017-23 is FACTUALLY. (12 SLAMS STATPADDED)
1ST point down in the drain already 😂😂
@ while he won 1 slam less from 2011-2016 compared to 2018-2023, he was still far more consistent and lost before the semis only twice, and made 7 more finals compared to just 3 more. So really you can go with either one, i choose to go with 2011-2016 because it has more value due to the competition, and all my other points still stand.
@xaoc1537 are you slow mate? You're literally proving our point. Nobody said he played the best between 2017-23, but still that was FACTUALLY his most successful slam period. Idk what's to argue here. He won more slams during that time, simple, what's to argue with that?
You're just proving our point as well by your statements. Acc to you, Novak played best between 2010-16, I agree absolutely, but you know why that still wasn't his most successful slam period? Bcs he statpadded the f*ck out of tennis in 2017-23, even after playing worse than his prime years. You're proving the point
@@xaoc1537 there is really nothing to argue, he won more slams between 2017-23, how else do you define "most successful slam win period" then mate?
Nobody's said he played the best during those years, he played better in 2010s obviously, but still won less bcs the 2021-23 slam wins were absolute statpadz
@ damn your slow. Here, let me spell it out. Just like the GOAT race, slams aren’t everything. He won 1 more slam, but had less overall wins, lower win percentage and less slam finals. Also, Djokovic and Nadal played in the same era, so either they both stat padded or neither of them did.
The mental gymnastics that took to make this video...
I'd go a step further and say "contortions"
No gymnastics (or contortions) needed. Just facts. Novak has had many factors favor him in regard to his having won 24 slam titles to Rafa's 22.
The biggest factor being that the court surfaces at the slams wildly favor Novak (3 of the 4 giving him a clear advantage). So he really should have 3 times as many slam titles as Rafa. If Novak managed to win 24 with that huge advantage... then Rafa should have won just 8. Or looking at it from the other direction... If Rafa managed to win 22... then Novak should have won 66 GS titles. Novak came up 42 slam titles short.
The second biggest factor is that Novak won almost all of his GS titles after Roger's peak was over. Roger won 16 of his 20 slam titles by 2010. Novak won 23 of his 24 slam titles from 2011 on. Rafa won 9 of his slams during Roger's early peak years... and then he won 13 during Novak's peak years.
The third biggest factor is that Rafa missed 18 GS tournaments with all his injuries... while Novak missed just 3.
The most impressive fact - is that Rafa's head to head record vs. these other two all time greats at the slams is so much better than the other two.
Rafa was 21-11 (.656 W%) vs. Novak & Roger at the slams.
Novak was 18-17 (.514 W%) vs. Rafa & Roger at the slams.
Roger was 10-21 (323 W%) vs. Rafa & Novak at the slams.
Rafa dominated his two great rivals at the slams... despite 3 of the 4 slams being played on a surface that favored Novak & Roger.
@ Both gymnastics and contortions are needed to overcome this comparison:
Rafa (209 weeks) needs over 200 more weeks at #1 to tie Novak (400+)
Rafa needs to finish #1 at the end of the the year 3 more times to tie Novak
Rafa needs 2 more GS to tie Novak
Rafa needs to win 4 GS in a row to achieve Novak’s consecutive slam.
Rafa needs 1 more AO and 1 more Wimbledon to get his 3rd Career GS while Novak needs only 1 more FO for his 4th
Rafa needs to win the Paris Masters and Miami open to earn his 1st Golden Masters while Novak needs only 1 more Monte Carlo for his 3rd.
Rafa needs to win Indian Wells and Miami Open back-to-back 4 times to tie Novak’s “Sunshine Doubles” record
Rafa needs to win the ATP Finals 7 times to tie Novak; 4 of them need to be consecutive
While Rafa’s dominance at the FO is impressive, the flip side is that he has only won 3 consecutive GS once while Novak has done it 4 times. It also means that he has only won 3 in a season once while Novak has done it 4 times.
Rafa needs to be named “Player of the Year” 3 more times to tie Novak
Rafa hasn’t beaten Novak on a hard court in 10+ years.
@@aBeatleFan4ever “If” and “should have” don’t count as stats but I applaud the effort 👏🏻
Rafa is a great champion with many wonderful accomplishments however GOAT simply is not among them
The thing that I find so amusing about this "debate" is the fact that for years and years, all we heard was "Rafa has more GS titles", "Novak doesn't have Olympic Gold", and "Novak doesn't have the stats" but now that he DOES have the stats, the conversation has turned into what might have been, what could have been, what should have been, if only this, if only that, etc. etc.
Ladies and gentlemen with all due respect, this is about what IS and not what might have been or should have been or what could have been. Statistics cannot be argued with hypotheticals
Im not a novak fan, but novak is the owner of rafa, there is no doubt about this. The fact that rafa hasn't even taken a set against novak in HC since 2013 us open is testament to this.
@@Romans8-9NOT
@@xxzeroxx8417 Novak is owner of your brains, who fail to see that Nadal was and will always be his biggest nemesis. Even he admits that.
And here you and your puny little sense claims like he is owner or so. Dumbest comment.
@Romans8-9 learn to read bro. I said I'm NOT a Novak fan, but Novak is the owner of rafa. I'm a fed fan🔥
@Rahul-Nalawade someone's angry😂😂. Rafa himself admitted Novak is the best player in the world and yet his clown fans cling on to the hope that he is the best😂
Ha ha ha
Nadal on clay is the best player in history for now, but in general it's Djokovic - the most versatile player ever
Novak won an awful lot of Majors when Nadal was out with injury. (The last 4 he won, for example.) Still, at Majors -- the most important tournaments -- Rafa is 10-4 against Roger and 11-7 against Novak. Rafa won 2 of 3 U.S. Open finals against Novak. Sadly, mostly because Nadal was injured so often, the last U.S. Open match they played was in 2013.
@@henry-bo3np Nadal hasn’t taken A SINGLE SET off Djokovic on hard courts since 2013. This should give you an idea of who actually benefited from not playing those games.
Rafa wasnt winning these matches even if he was there, post 2013. All of his hard court slams in this period are from when he didn’t have to play Novak. With 2022 being the most obvious example. Djokovic isn’t there at his best slam, and this is the perfect chance for Rafa to grab the opportunity.
The reason Nadal has a positive h2h against Novak at US open is precisely because they haven’t played there in his later years. Bizarrely, Rafa and Fed never played a US open match at all, by the way. These avoidances were a blessing for Rafa. If he ran into them more often, both his slam count and his h2h would tank.
And Rafa was a savy player. He knew how to condition himself and get the most out of a season. That’s why for all his injury woes, he was mostly there for the clay season, where he knew he’d win plenty, then licking his wounds, dealing with injuries during the hard court swing, where he had very little chances in his later years anyway.
@@alexr7595 most of those matches on hard came in 2015 2016 when nadal was not himself at all barely top 10 player ok so post prime rafa struggling to win on hard against novak is one think but being 10-0 clay/grass when djokovic was young and it was until 2010 is wild ahahahahha keep crying. how many more slams novak need in his favor to get more slams than rafa he already has 2 and grass is even faster so its 3 basicly and facing way way easeir competiton is also wild heaving only 24 slam is a big L and even novak fans know that nadal in his prime was the best player by far and u cant deny it he got the most slams out of hardest years novak could not even beat post prime rafa on clay that often rather he took double bagel
@@tircek1233oh my. Did you just try to jujitsu Novak’s 24 slams into a liability? You didn’t just try to do that.
@@kchuk1965 he should have 30 at least he missed only 3 he has 2 on hards he played mediocre players for almost a dacade 24 is preaty bad cosnidering nadal had to face at least a slam champion novak only faced medvedev who got a slam from him ahahahah and actually murray and wawrinka got most of slams from him i guess novak is slam maker ahahahaha
The only legitimate argument you can make for Nadal is that the toughest single challenge for any player in history is beating him in his prime at the French Open. So in a sense, that is the highest level we have seen, however in terms career accomplishments you cant argue he is better than Novak and I do think Roger was the better all around player as well.
I couldn't agree more.
People who talk about numbers only, think about the millions of hearts he won and inspired an entire generation, that should count for something. Despite not being the highest gs winner, he is the most popular tennis player ever.
@@ahsanchoudhury9928 , he literally isn’t, lol. Federer is the list popular, always has been.
It’s actually why Nadal is mostly left out of GOAT discussion nowadays. Because if you want to base it on actual accomplishments on the tennis court, you have to go with Novak. If you want to get all romantic and talk about vague things like grace, influence and aura, you go with Federer.
@alexr7595 it used to be Federer, but not anymore. You've got old information. Check again.
@ , well Federer has been retired for some time, while Rafa just played his last match.
Naturally, you lose your popularity once you’re no longer relevant as an active player. But when they all played, Federer was the most popular. The media was hyping him into the stratosphere all the time.
Novak won millions of people's heart as well and if you listen to young players ,they take inspiration from Novak as well along with Roger and Rafa
No that's clearly Federer.
Saying that Djokovics most successful period from 17-23 is a joke, he got injured in 2017 and didnt play till 2018 when he beat Nadal who was no1 in Wimbledon.
Your take is a joke since youre biased, Djokovic won in 6 out of 6 finals in 2011 against prime Nadal who was invincible by anyone else but Djokovic.
Nadal is a legend of the sport, goes neck by neck with Nole, but you can never say hes better than him.
@steffoneil wrote: "Your take is a joke since youre biased, Djokovic won in 6 out of 6 finals in 2011 against prime Nadal who was invincible by anyone else but Djokovic."
Novak had that one great year vs. Nadal (in 2011). Besides that year - Nadal has him by a decent margin head to head... even though the surfaces across pro tennis heavily favor Novak. It's embarrassing for Novak that he really only had that one year of greatness over Rafa. He should have been winning 75% of their matches every year. The fact that the slam total is 24 to 22 while Novak had a huge surface advantage in 3 of the 4 slams... should be seen as a tremendous embarrassment for Novak.
@@aBeatleFan4ever that one year (2011) exactly proves who is better as both of them were in their prime. All those who claim Novak got the better of Rafa because Rafa was injured or not at his best...2011 is the great example to debunk this myth. Novak is the GOAT , no debate
@@silentvoice592010 rafa bud wake up
@@warrior_of_christ1225 2011 Novak wake up bud
Good analysis.
If you are talking athletic dominance though Toni Bou has won 36 world trials championships, 18 indoor and 18 outdoor, both consecutively, and is still competing and winning world championships at age 38. The second greatest trials rider has 12 world titles. That is dominance.
Djokovic's head to head record against every player who has won a big title in the last 15 years.
Nadal: 31-29
Federer: 27-23
Murray: 25-11
Ferrer: 16-5
Wawrinka: 21-6
Tsonga: 17-6
Del Potro: 16-4
Cilic: 19-2
Coric: 4-0
Zverev: 8-4
Thiem: 7-5
Dimitrov: 12-1
Isner: 10-2
Fritz: 9-0
Sock: 1-0
Medvedev: 10-5
Rublev: 5-1
Khachanov: 9-1
Tsitsipas: 12-2
Alcaraz: 4-3
Busta: 4-2
Sinner: 4-4
Fognini: 8-0
Hurkacz: 7-0
Norrie: 4-0
Rune: 4-2
Popyrin: 3-1
With Zero total titles at the world tour finals, I present to you, the greatest clay court player of all time
Federer’s greatest rival is Rafa
Novak’s greatest rival is Rafa
That says it all…
Had nadal played all the slams for sure he would have claimed 27…
There is a reason why Rafa’s fan followers in twitter, instagram is way more than Roger and Novak….he is the people favorite ❤❤❤
Kings of clay❤ ❤❤
Can anyone tell someone is king of grass or king of hard courts…. This also says it all 🎉
Vamos Rafa, what a man…. We love you very much, thank you man ❤❤❤
Out of the Big 3, Federer had the easiest path to stardom due to the fact that early in his rise, he did not have to fight against the other 2 greats, while Rafa (against Federer) and certainly Djokovic had to (against both Federer and Nadal). When Federer was ascending, Sampras and Agassi had already passed their prime, Hewitt and Roddick although no slouch, could not be considered all-time greats.
Nadal is the greatest tennis champion that I have ever seen. There will never be another Rafael Nadal.
@@henry-bo3np don't lie yourself. Djokovic is easily greater champion, tennis player, athlete... Whatever you want to call him, he is simply greater winner in this sport than Nadal 🤣 more grand slams than Nadal, more masters than Nadal, Nadal never won 3 masters tours in his career, Djokovic won all of them at least twice, Djokovic won 7 Nitto ATP finals tours, Nadal never even won ATP tour. Not to mention that when you look at their domination per surface, you will see that gab between Djokovic and Nadal is far larger as Nadal only leads him at clay tours while Djokovic demolishes him on grass and hard courts... And of course weeks at number 1. Me and you are closer to Nadal's weeks at number 2 than Nadal is to Djokovic's weeks at number 1.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664, (1) except when Nadal is healthy. Novak won a lot of Majors -- including his last 4 -- when Rafa was not even playing. (2) IMO Rafa is the greatest tennis champion. (3) But that fact is that between Rafa, Novak and Roger, you cannot convincingly argue that one is "easily the greater champion." They are all GOATS. Rod Laver is in their class.
@@henry-bo3npthen nadal should have taken care his body like Djokovic did... Nadal is the only one of big 3 who did evolve. .. Just kept bringing intensity every single time... Not to say it's a bad thing but that why he was always injured... He chose to win that way... While novak chose to win not at the cost of his body by his efficient play
@@zorohighlights21242 GS on hard courts imagine how much of an advantage that is. Stop with the excuses
@@warrior_of_christ1225 “2 GS on hard courts” is firmly in the “excuse” column 😂😂
Nadal had to deal with a permanent injury called Mueller-Weiss syndrome that also affected other parts of his body and he still won 22 grand slams. That is good enough reason alone to prove he is the GOAT and if he was as lucky as Federer and Djokovic in terms of health he would've won at least 25 grand slams.
If... Would've...
That is such a lovely thought but a hypothetical can't prove anything. It's just as easy to say that if he'd had even one less injury and, as a result, had competed in one more tournament that he could've been in a car accident at a location where he would not have otherwise have been
If he was as healthy as... I'd put his total around 30.
And just think if he had played with his good hand...
@@aBeatleFan4ever , what is this nonsense?
If Nadal played with his right hand, he wouldn’t have the success he had. Being a lefty is a huge part of his competitive edge. It’s pretty much the reason he has a positive head to head against Fed. Heavy topsin forehand into Fed’s one handed backhand is what killed Roger, every single time.
And just in general, it’s uncomfortable for the right handed player players to compete against the lefty because they’re not used to it.
Federer and Djokovic would’ve handed right handed Nadal much easier.
@ If… If… Are we to also consider the number of titles he could have had if he could be invisible? Or if he was bionic?
What if Borg never retired at only 26...
Can you answer that also...
Nadal is my favourite but the bias in this video deserves more grandslam then all 3 combined 😂
Best video I have ever seen, awesome analysis and well put across, all and how u shared the data is awesome and true he is the goat there is no comparison
totally agree, and there are many more reasons but you summarized very well
Dude, it's not even close. Djokovic is way ahead of Nadal.
Djokovic vs Nadal
Slams : 24 - 22
Masters : 40 - 36
World Tour finals : 7 - 0
Weeks at number 1 : 428 - 209
Year end number 1 : 8 - 5
Golden masters : 2 - 0
Career slam : 3 - 2
Olympic singles medals : 2-1
Won all 4 slams in a row : Yes - No
Head to head : 31 - 29
And Nadal is retired now. Djokovic is still playing, hence he can widen the gap even further.
No matter how you look at the numbers, Djokovic is just the GOAT. However, I feel like you do make some valid points. It's because of these points as well as some others that I consider Nadal greater than Federer.
I 100% agree. This is an amazing video, I dropped a like to support this, hope it gets big.
Here's one more stat that Novak fans won't like: How many grand slam finals have the big 3 lost to non-big 3 members?
Federer: 1
Nadal: 1
Djokovic: 7
lmao arguments for fedal are always this weird specific stats nobody cares about meanwhile novak's claim is most grand slams, better h2h against both nadal and federer, most masters 1000 titles, only player in history to achieve the career golden masters (multiple times), most seasons with 3 GS titles, most weeks spent as world no.1, and so on and so on... Fedal fans will never get over the fact an underdog from a small country came in took the GOAT spot from your beloved westerners so you have to cope with some weird stats lol
@@cimi93x lol we aren't mad you just only look at the stats you that fellow Djokovic fans post everyday.
Consider how Djokovic had way less competition than Nadal ever did and how he was luckier than both Fedal were and you'll understand that even though Djokovic is the greatest winning player of all time, he's not the greatest of all time, because he had less setbacks than Nadal did
@@royalpixelfam Djokovic and Nadal literally competed in the same era lmao and saying he had "less setbacks" is your way of coping with the fact that Novak is more durable, and took care of his body better, which is just another way in which he is greater than Nadal. Stay salty brotha
so stupid stat...
I remember long time ago a guy from Guinness book of records was explaining how they course what gets published. It has to make sense. For example, a guy writes that he did a hundred pushups with his girlfriend on his back. Then the Guinness guy explained... if we publish that, there will be another guy who did a hundred with a horse on his back. That's what's happening here. Fedal crowd putting horses, armadillos, hippopotamuses etc
I mean i understand your points and also points from others about Fed being the GOAT but still think Novak deserves it the most. Hard courts are the most competitive courts (most non south European and non Latin America players grow up on hard courts) and with 2 slams and most masters on the calendar being on hard courst including the atp finals which is the fifth most important title one can make the case that being great on hard courts is the number 1 priority of all players and Novak dominating all of them makes him the GOAT. And the fact Nadal never took a set off Djokovic on hard courts since 2014 also diminishes his case, and both Fed and Novak supprass him on grass.
Putting rome as number 5 slam due to clay being non represented also forgets the fact that grass is even more non represented (there isnt a single masters on grass and before 2010 there werent even any atp 500 on grass).
Nice effort writing this up, but it wasn't really needed. Anyone who understands tennis, and has a clear mind, knows that Đoković is the goat. No ifs and buts, no wouldas, shouldas and couldas can change that. And it's been like that for a long time. The Olympic Gold had no impact whatsoever, that only has personal significance to Novak.
@@dzailibuIn terms of more slams yes but more quality ? No
@@healthylifehub8089 I fart in your general direction.
@@healthylifehub8089 🤮
Best analysis ever Rafa will always be the best on the tennis court and off it !!
Thank you for this video. Nadal is the GOAT ♥️
What if...What if...What if...
This summarizes all of this clip :)
Could have, should have, would have...but didn't
Exactly 😂. If this, if that..this this could, if that could. 😂😂
@@xxzeroxx8417 Yes! 👍🏻
I believe that’s known as the alternate universe GOAT argument 😂
Besides considering the hypothetical of clay and hard courts having equal representation in grand slams, what other "what if" was presented in this 13 minute video?
@@sportsmagsthey didn’t watch the video simply, they’re butthurt and judging by the first few mins 😂
Bro has a phd in whataboutery😂😂.
Great analysis.
Rafa is more equal of the three.
One of the most thoughtful and well researched presentations. Great job my friend.
There is absolutely nothing thoughtful and researched about this 😂. It is very well cherry picked😂
Lol !!! this is a stupid biased video from a rafa fan.
Where did the author lie?
I think djokovic and Federer are more consistently dominant due to their bodies being more durable but when they’re all at their peak I gotta go Rafa. When Rafa is on he beats everyone. Rafa at the 2010 us open is the greatest we’ve ever seen. He completely dismantled prime djokovic with his serve.
Prime Djokovic in 2010...😂😂😂😂
and then Nadal went on to lose 4 slam finals consecutively to Djokovic a year later...
@@TIGER-xl7xg2013 Nadal till USO eats 10x 2011 Djokovics in breakfast 😂😂
@@tennis-man22uh no. 2010 and 2011 Rafa are more or less the same player. Djokovic went to another level and put the hurt on him.
@@tennis-man22we know who's been having breakfast since past 10 years so stop crying
Very good points added in your Analysis. Great job.I truly appreciate and admire your comments. I am from Indiana state.
The tone of your video is largely respectful towards all big 3 guys so I won't accuse you of being utter fanboy. You have your preferences and that's ok. And it's a very nicely edited and narrated clip. Kudos.
But you made many logical errors, something fanboys do.
For example, you claim "Federer took advantage of early 2000s before Nadal and certainly Djokovic showed up", and similarly "Djokovic benefited from last phase, once Federer was old". For you, only Nadal faced them both while they were truly at their peaks or in primes?
But Nadal and Djokovic are separated by mere 11 and a half months, there's not even a full year of age difference between them.
They're literally same generation, what more can you ask? The age gap between Sampras and Agassi is bigger, being 16 months.
Can you imagine anyone ever suggesting either of those, Sampras or Agassi, benefiting from age or peaks that don't coincide vs the other guy?
And if it's not the age you talk about, but being "prime" or at his "peak", well, that's the whole point of goat chase. If you reach your prime at 18, and stay until 38, then surely you'll top everyone.
Secondly, you take Nadal's positive h2h vs Federer/Djokovic in GS matches, but you're oblivious to the fact that they mostly met at the FO.
You can't have it both ways, now can you?
On one hand you claim Nadal was at disadvantage in GS title chase because only one out of four tournaments are at his best surface, but otoh you have no problems taking their h2h that benefits Nadal since they mostly met at FO, his best surface?
E.g. Nadal leads 8-2 at FO vs Djokovic, that's +6, or 80%.
But Djokovic leads 2-0 at AO, that's mere +2 but it's also 100%.
What if they met 8 more time at AO? Would that not have improved overall Djokovic's h2h in GS matches and perhaps flipped it?
See the logical error?
Also, I just said that Nadal had only one GS at his preferred preference, but I'm not sure we can use that to argue even more for him. Only one GS title being on clay is not something that came suddenly. It's been like that for decades. If Nadal wanted to maximize his chances, improving on HC would have been "smart move" or focusing on HC from the very start.
I'm not saying he didn't do it, I'm just countering your "excuse".
Yes, it's not "fair" that there are 3 surfaces and 4 big ITF championships, but it's a setting that has been known in advance so if you want to chase slam titles you optimize for that setting which exists.
Djokovic certainly "benefited" from HC oriented tour in amassing his #1 stats.
But just like you argue for Nadal, that we shouldn't take his clay dominance against him, same goes for Djokovic. He was the one who exploited the HC oriented tour the most, so he's the one who gets credit.
So no, Nadal is not the greatest, and simply can't be.
In the end, your video is, sadly a failure, even though I concede one point you mentioned in latter part of your video, and it's something I totally agree with.
Nadal's FO record and clay dominance in general is ludicrous.
It's very difficult to use those achievements to say he's the greatest, since clay is just ine surface, and FO just ine tournament out of 4, but in comparison to him, Federer and even Djokovic seem only "statistically" better.
24 to 22 to 20 GS titles is being statistically ahead.
But 14 FO titles is an absurdity when next best is 6.
Tennis has imo two surreal records, Nadal's 14 FO titles and Laver's 2 Grand Slams.
So the goat chase is:
Winner: Djokovic. Not just because of GS title chase, but overall.
Names that go with Djokovic for all eternity, Laver and Nadal. Federer will be there too because of the big 3 era, but Laver and Nadal have achieved something absurd.
I'm most certain that Djokovic will lose his goat title sooner than Laver or Nadal get surpassed in their ludicrous achievements.
So that's Nadal's place in history. Not as the greatest, but he's the one that can't be ignored.
He's not the captain in Star Trek, but he's Mr. Spock.
He's not the US president, but he's Benjamin Franklin.
He's not the Oscar actor winner, but he's John Wayne e.g.
Etc.
With all due respect for everything Nadal did... He is not even 2nd greatest tennis player of all time. I don't compare him to Djokovic because it is obvious: most grand slams, most masters, more than 2 times more weeks at number 1 than Nadal, he leads him in everything... I just use arguments for Federer who is 2md greatest player of all time because people think it is close between Federer and Nadal when in reality it's only an illution. Nadal has 2 more grand slams than Federer, but that's only because Nadal is the most dominant clay champion ever. Federer has much mire Australia Open titles, he has way more Wimbledon titles and even more US titles. Now let's talk about masters tours because Nadal has 36 and Federer has 28, but Federer never won 2 masters tours while Nadal never won 3 of them and Federer has more masters titles on 5 while Nadal has more masters titles on 4 masters tours. Soo Nadal has more grand slams and more masters titles, but Federer has more different grand slam titles and more different masters titles than Nadal. Just because Nadal stat-padded on one surface doesn't make him better than Federer, it makes him more specialist. And what about Nitto ATP finals tour??? Federer won that tour 6 times in his career while Nadal never even won that tour. That's 2nd biggest tour in tennis history after grand slam tours. And of course, how can you decide who has been greater if you don't consider the fact who stayed more time as the best tennis player in the world? Federer has 310 weeks at number 1 while Nadal has 206. Soo stop it, Nadal is phenomenal tennis player, one of the greatest athletes ever, but Nadal is definitely not the GOAT in this sport. He is only the best one surface player in tennis history.
Nadal definitely had a better career than Federer. Federer didn't even win a quarter of the slams Rafa and Nole won after 30, most of his slams were before prime Djokovic and Nadal and it's a fact, the competition was weaker, you can check ELOs and what not. And Federer has a losing record against Djokovic in WB, his best surface so he's not even the goat in his surface. You can't blame Nadal for being a god on clay. He is not as good on hard courts as Federer or Djokovic definitely but it's a combination of multiple things. In his prime, he could beat both of them on any surface. ATP finals is definitely a blemish in his resume but Federer having one RG is worse (the only reason he won is Rafa was taken out by Soderling). He couldn't touch Rafa there, ever and only dominated their H2H in the later years, when Nadal lost a lot of his speed with Mueller-Weiss and knee injuries. Prime Federer had better seasons though, but career wise Nadal anyday. Mentally he doesn't even rate to Nadal, even if you're a Fed fanboy.
You are right about one thing. It is not close at all between Rafa and Roger. Roger should have won way more than Rafa. But he has a pathetic record vs. his biggest rivals at the slams. Roger 10-21 (323 W%) at the slams vs. Rafa & Novak. Novak 18-17 (.514 W%) at the slams vs. Rafa & Roger. Rafa 21-10 (.656 W%) vs. Roger & Novak at the slams.
Rafa holds this huge lead over his biggest rivals... despite the fact that 3 of the 4 slams are played on surfaces that heavily favor both Roger and Novak.
There is NO reasonable argument that puts Roger ahead of Rafa. NONE.
@@aBeatleFan4ever there are plenty of reasonable reasons to put Federer and Djokovic over Nadal, that's because they are more complete tennis player ls than Nadal, especialy Djokovic, waay more complete player than Nadal🤣😂and again. Do you know why he has winning record against them at grand slams??? Because again with Nadal it's all about clay 🤣🤣🤣Federer and Djokovic played way more matches against Nadal on clay than on other tours and that's why Nadal has advantage😂 because literally Nadal run from Djokovic multiple times at Australia and even at Wimbledon because Djokovic was destroying him on those surfaces. You can say that either he run from Djokovic or he wasn't good enough to go further to face him, no matter which option you choosez it's not a good look for ONE OF THE GOATS. From 2013 Federer defeated Nadal 6 consecutive times on hard courts. From 2013 Djokovic defeated Nadal 9 consecutive times at hard courts... Again, Nadal is flay specialist, he was most dominant player on that surface than amy tennis player in history and he is the one who benefited the most from his surface than any other player in history. All other players had to win a lot more titles on another surfaces to be soo great. Nadal literally like I said, he has lower winning % than Djokovic, Federer and Sampras on all grand slams.
@@Blue-ik8ij yeah, but that's why before 30 he won the most grand slams than any tennis player in the history. Yeah, you can definitely make an argument that if Djokovic was the same age as Federer and if his prime was in 2006-2007 and not 2011, Federer would have even less grand slam titles. But in the same way, Djokovic is the biggest reason ehy Federer hasn't won more grand slams in his career. He faved Nadal only 32 times while he faced Djokovic 50 times. Literally in 2011 he was playing outstanding tennis and he didn't won grand slam because Djokovic defeated him at Australia Open and US Open. Than in 2014- 2015 Federer literally defeated everyone at Wimbledon, nobody could match him other than Djokovic, Djokovic absolutely stole those Wimbledon titles from Federer because he was insanee in that time. Not to mention that 2019 Wimbledon... I've never seen greater player at one grand slam tour at 37 years of age than Federer. Literally he played incredible semi-finals against Nadal beating him in 5 sets and than to lose against Novak in finals while being statisticly better player than him in that finals... That waa probably the biggest defeat by a all time great tennis player. He had momentum, he had support from crowd and to lose on a such bad way... Literally nobody other had a chance against Federer that day.
Agree totally. Nadal is simply NOT an all court player compared to Djokovic, AND Federer. For me the fact he hasn't won an ATP final, is a massive hole in his resume, that 2 clay slams do not make up for.
2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic.
amazing video! I always wondered why it felt that nadal was the best out of them but not in total grand slams. This video helped explain that feeling. Thank you 🙏
No way, Nadal never won the 5th most important tournament, which is the ATP Finals (where both rivals dominated), he won too much on one surface only, has so many weeks at n.1 less than his rivals (less than Sampras, Connors, Lendl too), and beside Roland Garros has less Grand Slams in each of the other three than both Djokovic and Federer.
Lol, that's not his problem though. Federer won one slam on clay, and that too coz Nadal got taken out by Soderling. He rarely won slams after 30, and has losing H2H against both Djokovic and Nadal but i don't see that come up often. Fed even has awful record against Djokovic in WB when he's supposed to the grass GOAT. I agree he should have won at least one ATP final but he missed many editions because of injuries and other issues. And obviously Fed and Nole are better indoors than Rafa easily, and that's what you get for being stuck in the primes of two other GOATs.
ATP finale - 3 sets - ladies competition - no?
yeah, numbers and more numbers... it all goes down to personal preference. And the GOAT debate is stupid in my eyes. Roger, Rafa and Novak are all GOAT in their own rights. Plus, isn't it enough to be great? why do you need to be the greatest? To me, it is just a stupid notion. Rafa was a force of nature with exceptional skills and he inspired so many people to watch and play tennis.
I got exited about tennis with Borg in Wimby, then I got bored with Sampres era, and Nadal was the one who brought me back. Thanks to Nadal, I am a tennis fan today and a tennis player, so, thank you Rafa, you are great, and that's enough for me.
I loved your argument because I prefer Rafa over Novak and Federer. A guilty confirmation bias on my part because all the stats suggest Djokovic has better objective stats..Respect all three, but heart is with Rafa and my mind+heart with Novak
Djokovic has a positive head to head record against every top player. He also has the most wins against top 5 and top 10 players in history. Apart from having every record.
To even argue that Djokovic is not the GOAT is stupidity to its core. Djokovic has every possible record. He is ahead of everyone in everything.
Nadal fan here, let's not fool ourselves, please.
LOUDER
. . . (I wish I could shout here)
I don't particularly care about subjective debates such as who is the goat. However, your argument in 5:40 is very flawed.
First of all, to say that "he never had that luxury" is ridiculous given that he is one year older than Djokovic and he played during his time as well, he had "that luxury " he just couldn't do it.
Second of all, Djokovic's second most successful slam period goes from 2011-2016 when he also won as many GS's as Rafa in his most successful period (11 slams), I wonder who his most common opponents were during this period?
Totally agree with you. The person who made this video is delusional Nadal fan. As you mentioned argument at 5:40 is so flawed...my question to this person is did Nadal stopped playing after 2019? he just couldnt win as much as Novak
You are delusional if you cannot take the fact that most of the slams won by Djokovic was when Federer wasn’t there.
Another perspective:
Let’s count slams from the year Djokovic fist won (2008) to the year Federrer last won (2018).
RF: 9, RN: 13, ND: 12
From: Aus Open (Jan 2008)
To: Aus Open (Jan 2018)
Slams Played during this time:
RF: 38/41, RN: 36/41, ND: 40/41
So, in-short Federer dominated early years, Nadal middle years & Djokovic dominated last years.
Still supports the author’s claim. Even after missing 5 (most slams) during these years, Nadal still has the most slams.
Am I delusional? or You?
@@Rahul-Nalawade I think you are replying in the wrong thread buddy, because I have no idea how any of what you've said is relevant to my comment.
@@sergiosarmiento4371 Okay. Sorry, if it is not making sense here. Unless you’re a Djokovic fan. ;)
@@Rahul-NalawadeFederer was playing pretty well throughout the 2018 season with a high ranking so why did you not include the rest of 2018.
By doing so you completely ignored that from 2008 to 2018 I think Novak won 14 grand slams but 12. Nadal too I think won 14 slams as well, so in your question they are pretty much equal.
And even if you ignore my comment, based on your analysis, you should not make such a big conclusion based on a single slam difference between nole and rafa.
If you do, I hope you realise that majority of tennis fans consider the period 2008-2016 as the toughest era of men' tennis and in that period rafa won 11 slams whereas nole won 12 slams. So even in the strongest era nole has won the most with Roger, rafa, Murray, wawrinka being his consistent opponents in slams. This point is missed by all nole haters and probably by the author as well. So strong era or weak era, Novak is always at the top level.
The GOAT list is pretty easy.
1.1 Djokovic
1.2 Federer
3. Nadal
You could debate between Federer and Djokovic all day but Nadal is by all metrics on 3. If Grand Slams had different surfaces it would all change but Nadal is a sand specialist and had no rival on this surface, racking up 14 of his 22 Grand Slam Titles on sand. The other surfaces where 3/4 GS were played were way higher contested. That can be seen by Nadal "just" winning Wimbledon and AO twice. (And the AO 2022 were highly questionable imo)
Rafa is the ultimate warrior, but the G.O.A.T is Djoko. He beat both Rafa and Roger in their Center Courts against unfriendly clouds. Who can seriously claim that Rafa and Roger could beat Novak in Belgrade ?
Nope. Novak Djokovic is the greatest ever. Numbers don't lie. Stop this mental gymnastics bs. Facts over feelings.
I have been saying this. Excellent video. Rafa is 🐐 of all sports
This is what I have been saying to myself. But, no one could understand unless they see the bigger picture.
When I was kid it was Roger battling Nadal and when m adult its Djoker fighting him in his career end.
Poor Nadal had born few years later, another world another story.
@@Rahul-Nalawade But he wasn’t. And he isn’t
@@pj-fx7gx Yeah, maybe not the last line. But, he is up there with so many legends.
@ He is definitely a legend and has been for many years but that was never the topic of dispute
@@Rahul-Nalawadeare you for real... As if only nadal was sandwitched... Djokovic is 1 year younger than nadal....was as good of a teenager as nada... Idk wt.. Is wrong with you people as if nadal is 10 yr older than djoko
Some people say that Djokovic is not the greatest because it's not all about numbers. When you ask those same people why is Nadal the greatest clay court player ever they will tell you ''because he won 14 RG, 11 MC...''. Sport is not an art. If you are the greatest in your job, then nothing is impossible for you. Federer and Nadal are the most worshiped tennis players ever, but being the most worshiped doesn't automatically means being the greatest. Being the greatest in your job is not something that someone is giving to you. You go out there and you either get it or you don't. There is no voting.
Indeed it is amazing that suddenly we are using scoring from 20th century figure skating. The Spanish judge gave him a 6.0 😂
If Nadal had more slam wins they would've used that as the main reason why Rafa is the greatest. In fact, pre-2011 the Rafa-Federer fans used to make and share memes about this stuff.
This was well put together, thank you. There are a few more points as well here.
Aside from the constant injuries which affected his career, Rafa has always been the constant professional throughout his career. He and Federer won all the Sportsmanship awards.
So here are the other points:
1. Clay season is about 2.5 months long whereas hard courts are about 7 months long.
This greatly exaggerates the rankings records.
2. Rafa has the record for most year end top 2 finishes because of this by 2 over Novak with a total of 15.
3.Rafa beat Roger on all surfaces in Grand Slam Finals, only one to do it.
4. Novak has been swept in Grand Slam Finals 5 times, Roger and Rafa only once. Rafa got both Roger and Novak this way.
5. Rafa won the Clay Slam and Summer Slam, Roger and Novak never did.
6. The longest match winning streak ever across all 3 surfaces belongs to Rafa with 32. He went through Roger at the 2008 French, Novak in the Queens Final and Roger again at the Wimbledon Final to do it.
Just a few thoughts here. He’s my best choice too. Vamos Rafa even retirement!
...besides Federer and Djokovic (and maybe Alcaraz and Sinner, let's give them 15 years+)
At Majors, Rafa is 10-4 against Roger and 11-7 against Novak (21-11).
@@henry-bo3np Because they would turn up to face him on clay.
Off of clay, Rafa couldn't beat either of them even once since 2014! And before all the injury excuses come out, he did challenge them decently in several matches during that period, but could only ever bring it home on clay.
@@zetristan4525, actually, Rafa defeated Roger in the GOAT 2008 Wimbledon final and in the 2009 AO final, and beat Novak at the U.S. Open finals in 2010 and 2013. Rafa "brought it home" on every surface. And you know it. Rafa is one of just 4 players ever to have won each Major at least twice.
@@henry-bo3np Obviously, we all know that . I watched and enjoyed all those matches. 2010 US Open series Rafa was serving exceptionally!
Nadal has legitimate arguments for being seen as the best ever... but Federer just doesn't.
We can debate what stats should be considered to be the GOAT of tennis. We haven't even talked about how Rod Laver was banned from tennis in the pre-Open era for 5 years because he was paid as a pro and yet he managed a calendar year Grand Slam in the year before and the year after the ban. Had he been allowed to play those 5 years, he might hold the record for most Grand Slams. All I will say is Djoker has a lot of great stats on his side to be considered the GOAT, Federer was the first of the 3 to dominate the way they all have and the first to truly take tennis to a whole other global level of recognition and Nadal has been my favorite player both on and off the court for his demeanor and mental toughness. If I had to pick one of the three to play for my life in their primes, I would pick Nadal simply because of his never-give-up attitude. And as the author of this video correctly asks, why is it that 2 of the Slam venues are hard court? Shouldn't each court be a different surface? The only question is what else is there besides grass, clay and hard court?
An extremely disengenous video full of mental gymnastics. This is full of whataboutery. There is absolutely no point in saying rafa would have won more titles if there were more clay slams. Its like saying he would have far less if there was no clay at all. The fact that djokovic won more was because he eas more versatile. Simple as that. Its like saying Federer could have won more if there more grass court events. You are engaging in pointless whatabaoutery.
2. You conveniently ignore facts which dont suit you. Nadal hasn't taken a set against novak in HC since 2013 uso. Novak has more total masters, more weeks at no 1. Rafa has never won an year end ATP finals. The fact of the matter rafa is a one dimensional player, tho a very great player. But on the other surfaces he jist doesn't cut it compared to novak and Federer.
3. Since 2011, besides clay nadal jas beaten novak just once in slams in the uso 2013.
Since 2011
AO : Novak leads 2-0
Wimbledon : 2-0
US0: 1-1.
Novak has dominated nadal in the other surfaces just as rafa has dominated him on clay. These are things you don't want to see.
4. Coming to the point you made about how rafa had to play against tye person with 47 slams, is just a downright nonsensical argument. Why is it that for instance, novak's most common opponent since 2017-2023 is not nadal. There is no questioning or analysis of that. You just patch things onto your narrative. And when you had mentioned the slam count that each player played against, none of them even had those many slams at that particular point in time 😂. And another thing you conveniently ignore was Djokovic absolutely trashed nadal in nadals prime of 2011. Djokovis's prome coincided with rafa's and the end result was bad for rafa.The fact is rafa just wasn't good enough against novak.
5. Coming to the injuries. It just doesn't matter. The fact that he was plagued with so many injuries eas because of his playing style. That is the price he paid for winning 22 slams and putting his body through that immense strain. If rafa had a chance at being more injury free, he wouldn't have won half as much.
I think there really is no argument to be maid about rafa being the goat. He is the greatest clay court player and i think he will be the greatest in clay forever. But he will never be a goat.
At the end of the day novak has all the records. Hes won almost everything, while rafas hasn't ever won an year end or many other ATP 1000s. And novak also has a better h2h against rafa. The fact is rafa was second best and he should be happy with it .
And this is coming from a fed fan.
@@xxzeroxx8417 If he could have stayed age 23 forever - I think it’s the only angle that wasn’t presented. Thanks for the comprehensive comment 👍🏻👍🏻
@@pj-fx7gx Bro😂😂😂😂
bs even 2 olympics got purposely put on grass just to try helping federer not on clay but karma won murray walked away with it...... 2 gs per year on clay and raffa would have shitload of gs
@ Coulda, woulda, shoulda - goes for Rafa just as much as it does for Fed. This is not about fantasy sports and both of them are WAY behind Novak’s stats. I’m so sorry 🙏🏻
GOAT RAFA
This has to be the best and most objective video.
Rafa goat🐐
Excellent. I grew up with Connors vs McEnroe...crazy times.
Nadal easily the greatest
Awesome analysis! As a Federer fan this is a great argument. Both Federer and Djokovic have said Nadal is their greatest rival.
@@MariaPina-Mousseau Greatest rival and greatest of all time are entirely different things. Both Fed and Rafa had some amazing stats and are great champions but neither has the numbers
Djokovic is the 🤴 ❤❤❤❤❤ Nadal fans 😢😢😢
Yes, interesting perspective on this but.... Djoko leads also in H2H w/Nadal and in M1000, of which many are clay, and in total titles. Surely the GOAT.
"Yes, interesting perspective on this but ..." at Majors Rafa is 10-4 against Roger and 11-7 against Novak. Let that sink in.
@@henry-bo3np I can't take credit for this comment but let this sink in:
Rafa (209 weeks) needs over 200 more weeks at #1 to tie Novak (400+)
Rafa needs to finish #1 at the end of the the year 3 more times to tie Novak
Rafa needs 2 more GS to tie Novak
Rafa needs to win 4 GS in a row to achieve Novak’s consecutive slam.
Rafa needs 1 more AO and 1 more Wimbledon to get his 3rd Career GS while Novak needs only 1 more FO for his 4th
Rafa needs to win the Paris Masters and Miami open to earn his 1st Golden Masters while Novak needs only 1 more Monte Carlo for his 3rd.
Rafa needs to win Indian Wells and Miami Open back-to-back 4 times to tie Novak’s “Sunshine Doubles” record
Rafa needs to win the ATP Finals 7 times to tie Novak; 4 of them need to be consecutive
While Rafa’s dominance at the FO is impressive, the flip side is that he has only won 3 consecutive GS once while Novak has done it 4 times. It also means that he has only won 3 in a season once while Novak has done it 4 times.
Rafa needs to be named “Player of the Year” 3 more times to tie Novak
Rafa hasn’t beaten Novak on a hard court in 10 years.
@@pjesf - Novak's lead in year end #1s and in weeks at #1 or mostly due to all of Nadal's injuries. That and the fact that there surface advantage heavily favors Novak (and Roger). So it's actually amazing that Rafa is anywhere near to either of them in any of these stats.
Djoko has the longevity that Rafa, didn't. Guy won a ridiculous amount of slams in his 30s.
@@henry-bo3npthey met each other 10 times on rafas best and noles worst slam and only twice n noles best and rafas worst slam. 10 times at RG and 8 times at all 3 others slams.
You picked the wrong years to suit the agenda.
Djokovic's most successful 7 year period is 2015-2021
13 slams against 12 (2017-2023)
I suppose if you took the right timespan, Novak's opponents would be Nadal (22) Federer (20) and one between Murray and Medvedev
To say Djokovic's favourite surface is hardcourt is foolishness. Djokovic has 4 US Opens, 3 Cincinnati masters, 4 Rogers cup and 5 Indian wells masters. Djokovic has 7 Wimbledons and 6 Rome masters titles. Claydal has 14 Roland Garros, 11 Monte Carlo, 12 Barcelona, 10 Rome, 0 Miami, 0 Shanghai, 0 tour finals, 0 Bercy and 1 Cincinnati. Nadal was just a clay court specialist.
Nadal never dominted whole seasons like Federer and Djokovic did. That should be taken into consideration as well when comparing their achievements. Just like weeks at the top. And didn‘t Djokovic win each Slam at least three times?
Novak's most successful period is not from 2018 to 2023 but from 2011 to 2016.
A lot of information thrown in without any context.
Novak profited because of 2 hard slams? Well he and Nadal have the same number of US Open titles (4)
Novak is the master of the Australian Open, in a similar way as Nadal is at Roland Garros.
Nadal unfortunately has 2 slams with 2 titles each, that's where he lost the race, because he never managed to win the AO and the WB since 2010 (I don't count the covid AO where Novak was banned from playing)
No, he's not. Say no to delusions. They lead to other delusions and then you never stop. Dangerous stuff
Yea, actually Rafa really is. And saying that he's the GOAT is not "dangerous," haha 🙂
@henry-bo3np delusions are dangerous
@@dzailibu, you're right. It is delusional to think that every time Rafa was out with injury that Novak was the best player remaining and, so, won a lot of tournaments. And so dangerous too, haha 🙂
@henry-bo3np ah, ok. We are back at "injuries". Those ones that never happen during the clay season.
How do we know if Rafa was injured? He won, he wasn't injured. He lost, he was injured.
@henry-bo3np ruclips.net/video/RV-X8P315S8/видео.htmlsi=zJyZQzeZIUP7nlJU
Nice try. Novak is certainly the GOAT. The debate arises as to who the 2nd greatest is. Probably Nadal, though you could make a strong case for Roger too.
Nice try, according to you, Bill Russell(11 rings) is GoAT 🐐 not Michael Jordan (6 championships)
@@Vajra1021 3 points
As a Djokovic fan we can agree in a tie :)
Um... no. Greatest on clay for sure. Definitely the best at certain times. Sandy Koufax was the greatest pitcher for 6 years. Doesn't make him the GOAT. He couldn't beat Fed or Novak on grass or hard court for nearly 10 years (more for Djoko). Never winning an ATP Final against the 8 best players of the year is a huge indicator he's not the GOAT. Look at who they played while winning Grand Slams. Nadal feasted on players who are not great on clay. And what about Master 1000s? Compare Novak vs. Nadal on all 3 surfaces and you'll see the gap on grass and hard court is much bigger than Nadal's gap on clay. Lets not even discuss the 2022 AO. I could go on and on. Just say Rafa's your favorite player and don't embarrass yourself
Loved the video!!!!
When the field is weak, and only 3 guys shine, someone has to win. Those guys are phenomenal, excellent, superb, champions. Stick them in the 80/90s. They will win, but not as much because the field was so so so much wider. Those 3 are super important to the sport and Tennis HOFs!
@amazingmurfinator6338 Thanks Murph! Always enjoy sharing a love of tennis with you!
Excellent analysis
Nonsense Djokovic is the greatest and that's a fact !
well said but your strong point is that he missed 17 grand slams because of injury......he would have easily an other 10....
jesus that was a great video thanks brad it really made me reconsider i thought novak for sure
@tomharrison6607 Thanks Tom!
2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic. Nadal fanboys are just fooling around.
I love Nadal but the video is a totally flawed GOAT argument. Djokovic is the GOAT for holding almost all records in tennis including grand slams. Notwithstanding, Nadal finished his career 2nd best all time, and by far the greatest clay player of all time.
In the serbian dictionary, the word context doesn’t exist. 😂😂
As far as your first point goes, Djokovic is just one year younger than Nadal. Talking how he enjoyed couple of "easier" years with "ageing" Nadal is ridiculus. Nadal was playing in the same curcimstances, he just wasn't able to use it to his advantage same way, but still got two RG titles in a row beating Thiem and two hard court slams beating Medvedev.
When it comes down to your other point, I will put it like this. His dominance of clay is like no other, but clay makes only 1/3 of surfaces used in tennis. And as much as he is more on the other two surfaces than people give him credit for, he isn't really in the same league there as Federer and Djokovic. For instatnce, Nadal is the only one who would enjoy 4 losses in a row against players outside of top 100 at a single slam event.
And this talk about two slams on clay. If they replaced one of the hard court slams with clay, it would work for Rafa's advanyage indeed, but let's say they just switched us open or ao to indoors. Nadal would finish without career slam. So yeay, those kind of arguments are double edged sword.
What a video mate, what a video. Just incredible.
Deserves 1 million views. The tennis pundits never mention the context in this debate, all they talk about is blind statistics. You know why? Bcs they are federer fans who turned into Novak fans. Glory hunters to be specific.
But context > blind statistics
Need more facts and context?2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic.
terrific video . Borg and laver are still there - rather than completely excluded in this conversation. Rafa's win against federer on his surface in the greatest match of all time ; along with his dominance against him on clay does give him a strong argument against the 'current goats' .
@@dropballbrenan Wish I had gotten to see Laver and Borg play!
Novak beat Nadal twice at Roland Garros, a surface he is much more dominant on, than Fed was on grass...
@@cimi93x - Novak never beat Rafa at the French... when he was healthy.
Rafa beat peak Roger at Wimbledon (and very nearly beat him two years in a row).
@@aBeatleFan4ever lol everytime when Nadal lose, argument is he was injured blah blah
Amazing analysis bro keep it up❤
Who was Federer's greatest rival? Nadal.
Who was Djokovic's greatest rival? Nadal again.
But that doesn'matter.
Firstly, to all who are arguing against the video, and for the video itself, there is no such thing as the Greatest of All Time. In any sport.
Comparing between eras, between generations, and contexts is impossible. Every sport has a Pantheon of Greats, players who stood out from the rest of their peers.
Laver, Emerson, Rosewall, Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Agassi, Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and a few more. That's it. Rest of the debate is just an endless maze with no existing conclusion.
fed - rafa 40 meetings, 16-24
fed - nole 50 meetings, 23-27
nole - rafa 60 meetings (29 on clay), 31-29
rafas greatest rival was nole and fed greatest rival was nole too! fed was useless vs rafa on clay (2-14), and had just little over 50% on HC (12-10). bad matchup. nole had greater succes vs rafa on clay (9-20) than rafa vs him on HC (7-20).
@sjjobb5911 Federer himself has said Rafa was his greatest rival, the player who had the biggest impact on his game
Funny enough how the Djokovic fans are spamming random stats everywhere, none of them actually being able to respond to 5:40 😂
2011 - 2016 : Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals titles and 230 weeks at number 1. 2017-2023 : Djokovic won 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles and 180 weeks at number 1. The 2011-2016 period is far more superior for Djokovic. Here are the facts. Don't try to fool around forever
Between 2011 - 2016 (when Federer, Nadal, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro,Cilic, etc were all on top), Djokovic won 11 slams, 24 masters titles, 4 tour finals titles and was number 1 for 230 weeks. But Djokovic's dominant period according to this Nadal fanboy is 2017-2023.
😂 Because he won more in 2017-2023, 12 slams. Deal with it.
He played better in 2010-16, but won more in 2017-2023 FACTUALLY? YOU KNOW WHY?
BECAUSE 2017-2023 WINS WERE STATPADDED, especially the 7 slams in 2021-2023.
You’ve put all the dots, just join them.
@@cagedfighterwildlife1484 Now let's compare. 2011 - 2016 period : 11 slams, 24 masters, 4 tour finals, 230 weeks at number 1. Now to the 2017-2023 period : 12 slams, 10 masters, 2 tour finals titles, 180 weeks at number 1. Now tell me which period is superior 😆 🤣 😂 😹?
You hit most of the key points that make a legitimate argument for Nadal being the greatest men's tennis player.
I'd add his phenomenal Davis Cup record. He was the best ever in Davis Cup play.
And I'd add that Rafa won a GS singles title in 15 different years. More than any other player.
And I'd add the fact that he has the record for the longest winning match streak on a surface
There are two reasons why Novak has more total GS titles than Rafa. 1. Rafa missed 18 GS tournaments with injuries - while Novak has missed 3. 2. Novak got to play 3 of the 4 GS tournaments on his best surfaces - while Rafa got to play just 1 of the 4 on his best surface. If Rafa had that surface advantage... his lead in total GS titles would be huge. He would be at least ten titles ahead of Novak.
“He would be…”. But isn’t
ifs and buts, would have, should have...lol dont embarass yourself
Great Video
Nadal is the only player who managed to surpass both Federer and Djokovic during their primes. He achieved this while conceding Roland Garros only once between 2005 and 2014.
Taking the decade 2005-2014 into account, Nadal is the best player of the Big 3 based on several metrics:
Grand Slams
Nadal: 14
Federer: 13
Djokovic: 7
Masters 1000
Nadal: 27
Federer: 16
Djokovic: 15
H2H
Nadal vs. Djokovic: 23-19
Nadal vs. Federer: 23-10
H2H in Grand Slams
Nadal vs. Djokovic: 8-3
Nadal vs. Federer: 9-2
Weeks at No. 1
Federer: 250
Nadal: 141
Djokovic: 126
Year-End No. 1
Federer: 4
Nadal: 3
Djokovic: 3
--
Four Key Points:
- Nadal's biggest issue was consistency and, to a lesser extent, injuries. This is reflected in the number of weeks he spent as World No. 1.
- 2011 remains the best season in tennis history, significantly superior to 2015.
- Post-Wimbledon 2014, Nadal experienced a slump that lasted 2.5 years. Upon returning, he could only compete with Federer and Djokovic on clay.
- Not winning the ATP Finals is the biggest flaw in Nadal's case. Beyond the surface factor, failing to win this tournament weighs more than the achievement of winning all the Masters 1000. That is a secondary accomplishment and not decisive in determining the best player.
lol cherry picking years and stats to prove something...just admit Novak is the GOAT !
All that writing and nothing to show for it in the real world. I’m so sorry for your loss. Losses 😭🙏🏻
@@silentvoice59 It’s not cherry-picking. These are the numbers that encompass Federer’s prime and part of Djokovic’s prime. After Wimbledon 2014, Nadal and Djokovic didn’t simultaneously compete at a high level again until mid-2018 (Wimbledon 2018). Statistically, Djokovic is the GOAT.
@@pj-fx7gx 👍
@@pj-fx7gx 👍
Excellent presentation, but with Italian Open Grand Slam and "Mario"😉Berrettini, you're indulging in imagining a bit of fantasy tennis world.
Have you seen how many bad bounces at the Italian Open and other clay tournaments? And on grass too. There's a reason why real tennis is played mostly on hardcourts.
On clay, obviously whoever puts the most junk on the ball has a huge advantage. If you go through a tournament many times without dropping a set, you don't have a very competitive field (But on the truer surfaces, they would win a set -- and you walk a tightrope against the big servers too).
I like it if there are not too many aces. But clay protected Rafa from his weakness: that besides his brilliant serving at the end of 2010, he didn't develop his serve like eg Djokovic did.
I loved the claycourt epic matches, but I still thought I might be biased in my assessment against the surface, until I saw horrific injuries like Zverev's (and I don't even support Zverev). I've seen too many moments where players stop for the wind to blow clay dust all over them while they try to shield their eyes.
So Rafa is by far the greatest with his fortitude to pile the junk on the ball no matter the adversity. He made his backhand great too, and his handskills, volleys and overheads were awesome. (Toni and he messed up with the brutal training sessions tho, while Roger and Novak took amazing care of their bodies). Mentally, only Djokovic is better at walking the pro tennis tightrope.
Openmindedly, I went to play at a local claycourt. Saw I didn't need to serve fast anymore: I mostly served heaviest kickers so opponents couldn't predict the bounce well. Hope that if we do get a 10th Masters 1000 (in Saudi or wherever), it will be on grass or medium-slow hardcourt.
"Mentally, only Djokovic is better at walking the pro tennis tightrope."
Really... then why did he just barely win more than half of his slam matches vs. his two greatest rivals..?
Rafa 21-10 (66%) vs. Novak & Roger at the slams.
Novak 18-17 (51%) vs. Rafa & Roger at the slams.
Roger 10-21 (32%) vs. Rafa & Novak at the slams.
And Rafa has this huge lead... despite the fact that 3 of the 4 slams are played on surfaces that heavily favor Novak & Roger.
My sincere apologies to Matteo!
@@aBeatleFan4ever Your numbers don't add up (49-48 totals).
Otherwise, 2 reasons: Fed and Djok turned up regularly to face Rafa on his surface. And clay is the surface where the specialist is most guaranteed to win. On eg hardcourt, the match can get away from even the most expert if the other guy has a good serving day.
(There's a reason Rafa earned 64% of his impressive Slam total at one tournament. It's a bit like playing Marion Tinsley at checkers, not much chance to surprise him: I'd much rather invest in trying to beat Magnus Carlson a couple times at speed chess.)
Everyone's gonna have their opinion on who they think is the greatest of all time you can try and prove it to me but I know who the greatest is and it's not Nadal he is a close second
8:17 Wawrinka won a french open too
Novak by a MILE ... 1) Majors, 2) H2H, 3) Success on ALL surfaces and Majors ... charity, fitness inspiration, standing up for the little guy, ...
Thanks for this.
Thank you for this!
Looks like the word ‘context’ doesn’t exist for most of the people spamming blind statistics here 😂
What's a "major" Grand Slam (1.05)? ALL Grand Slams are majors!
Sorry to disappoint you but records proves that Djokovic is the greatest of all time and it’s not close .
Nadal can’t win the atp finals,Indiana wells and Bercy ,his just 208 weeks as world no.1 not even in top five and less than half of Djokovic’s.
There is no narrative that can make up for those records .
Bunch of Novak biased fans in here, Novak had the biggest advantage of 2 Hard courts as GS. Wake up. People in here acting like clay isnt part of tennis. Rafa in his prime is unmatched
You see what you want to see they say.
HAHAHA Novak GOAT, doyou understand me, GOAT, forever, period.
This is actually how you do an analysis of comparison. Sadly, most of the idiots the comments section will never accept this. Well done to you.
Djokovic is the GOAT, just stop it...
@@sportsmags most grand slams, better h2h against both nadal and federer, most masters 1000 titles, only player in history to achieve the career golden masters (multiple times), most seasons with 3 GS titles, most weeks spent as world no.1. Absolutely nothing else needs to be said, he is unequivocally, undeniably the greatest of all time, you don't have a point mate, you're just coping lol
@@sportsmagsWith all due respect for everything Nadal did... He is not even 2nd greatest tennis player of all time. I don't compare him to Djokovic because it is obvious: most grand slams, most masters, more than 2 times more weeks at number 1 than Nadal, he leads him in everything... I just use arguments for Federer who is 2md greatest player of all time because people think it is close between Federer and Nadal when in reality it's only an illution. Nadal has 2 more grand slams than Federer, but that's only because Nadal is the most dominant clay champion ever. Federer has much mire Australia Open titles, he has way more Wimbledon titles and even more US titles. Now let's talk about masters tours because Nadal has 36 and Federer has 28, but Federer never won 2 masters tours while Nadal never won 3 of them and Federer has more masters titles on 5 while Nadal has more masters titles on 4 masters tours. Soo Nadal has more grand slams and more masters titles, but Federer has more different grand slam titles and more different masters titles than Nadal. Just because Nadal stat-padded on one surface doesn't make him better than Federer, it makes him more specialist. And what about Nitto ATP finals tour??? Federer won that tour 6 times in his career while Nadal never even won that tour. That's 2nd biggest tour in tennis history after grand slam tours. And of course, how can you decide who has been greater if you don't consider the fact who stayed more time as the best tennis player in the world? Federer has 310 weeks at number 1 while Nadal has 206. Soo stop it, Nadal is phenomenal tennis player, one of the greatest athletes ever, but Nadal is definitely not the GOAT in this sport. He is only the best one surface player in tennis history.
Here are all the arguments while Nadal will never be the GOAT.
@@cimi93xmost Nitto ATP finals titles in tennis history. Argument that all of you forget about and that's 2nd biggest tennis event after grand slams. Nadal won that tour 0 times...
@@sportsmags Watching all 3 from 2007 i dont need your delusional points...i mean you have the numbers how can you argue with numbers. so just stop it. Djokovic is the GOAT and he would have won atleast 2grand slams more if it wasnt for covid and restrictions. get over it and accept it,you will fell better
The cope in all of these comments 😂
Ignoring all the context literally mentioned in this very video, low iq response
Djokovic best period was 2011 to 2016.. he was beating mureay nadal federer and wawrinka
Int fact.... Nadal played hole career with multiple injuries. Win 22 grandslam and Olympic gold. Djokovic never faced major injury like Nadal.
MMMMKAY 😂
@@হারানোদিনেরগান-ছ৮খ That’s not an argument for him being goat; it’s an argument that he should have been able ti manage himself better
Well when Nadal himself has grudgingly acknowledged Novak as the GOAT, not once but twice, such claims for usurpation of that coveted Sobriquet is nonsensical.