I think the same for Marvel Vs. Capcom 1 and 2. I think 1 was able to have more personality because of lesser selection of characters whereas 2 was more focused on competitive/tournament play.
@@JoshuaLowe-ci3wo I didn't like it at first because it went away from character themes(I love how on the previous installments the music would go from one character to another during a fight), but it's definitely not bad music by any means.
i don't miss the ex characters because they merged most of the Ex characters into CVS 2 anyway.. But I do miss the fact that Iori's Shiki Ya Sakazuki in CVS 1 was brutal to my opponent. :D
CVS2 made me want to be good at fighting games. The Roster, Music, All of the groove options, and alot of other stuff made me want to try this game out seriously. I legit think this is one of the best fighting games ever made. (In My Opinion)
@@Magic_M_Hayashi Street Fighter 3rd Strike is more refined and a bit more polished in terms of character models, but other than that I'd say Capcom vs. SNK 2 is definitely the GOAT 2D fighting game.
It’s funny that Morrigan’s sprite gets dunked on the most, yet if the character is not Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Chun, Bison, or a character not seen in 2D in 6 years time, then they too also got a reused sprite from the Alpha series, some of which are near as old as Morrigan’s sprite. That said, it’s still a great sprite that holds up perfectly fine, and when CvS3 does come to pass, the option to play as that Morrigan sprite better be there!
While CvS2 is a great game, I think it suffers from a lot of the same 'issues' as MvC2. They're both extremely skill-based and mostly solved which makes them incredibly hard to get into at anything other than a casual level. Things like Roll Canceling, Paint the Fence, and Just Defense can really punish people hard. If you do 2v2 pair match with CvS1, I think its more approachable by a decent margin. I guess the caveat to that is that there arent too many people in the world who can play at that level but maybe that changes here shortly with the collections.
Just a small comment, but even the SNK side on CvS1 was still strong, people forgets to remember KoF by itself was already a crossover, Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting and Athena were all separate IPs, so SNK technically had 4 IPs shown in CvS1 (KoF characters counting separately) Capcom is the one that never disappoints me in being so forced to put Street Fighter II characters... Seeing characters from Power Stone or Star Gladiator on the backgrounds only adds injury. Was it so difficult to make a trio of Rival Schools? Is it so difficult to use Haggar instead of Zangief? Like jesuschrist...
All these years I've only played the game I've never drove into it thinking about the ratios Etc. Sometimes I enjoy how RUclips has many creative people giving out their thoughts. This is one of those times...thanks for the vid!!!
My friend and I would play this for hours. We split the characters between us and determined which victory pose likely meant the soul of the loser was consumed (Akuma's Heaven symbol appearing, the snake tattoo on Vega's arm coming to life, Vice climbing on top...). If that happened, the character was considered unplayable until their soul could be stolen back. God, good times.
Not sure where SvC Chaos and the Neo Geo Pocket Color game fit in the conversation here, but good analysis. You did forget that P-Groove is a combination of 3S and ST, and A-Groove may have some inspiration from Darkstalkers to an extent. I predict that a third game in the series would play more like the Marvel series than CvS2 (which is kinda what SvC Chaos did at least in terms of the roster), to avoid overlapping with COTW/SF6, which is why I want to make a spiritual successor to CvS2, adding in even more grooves. SvC Chaos was ultimately the only game to reflect the early plans to have a variety of represented genres (albeit via sub-bosses/superbosses) EDIT: With guests in SF6, now I'm anticipating what'll happen on SNK's end, and this MIGHT make it even more likely for a new game to resemble the Marvel series. EDIT2: Aaaand now there’s a Marvel collection meaning Marvel proper might be back on the table.
7:55 - you can dash in KoF'94, but you can't run. KoF'96 was the first game in the KoF series with forward/backward rolls, short hops and the ability to run. Also the super jumps were different to KoF'94 and '95, but much easier to do.
Slight mistake in your explanation of K groove. Just defend also fills up your meter, you don't have to rely on taking damage. Just defend can also be executed air born, and it gives your character backwards momentum, unlike P-groove which gives directional momentum based on how you parried. Jumping back and parry causes your character to fall backwards, while jumping forward and parry causes your character to fall forward. Meanwhile, Just Defend will always cause your character to bounce backwards if jd was executed airborne.
CvS1/Pro actually had a free groove system on the home ports. There were also the EX characters that gave different properties (or in the case of SNK characters) wildly different movesets.
when he describes counter attack, shows counter hit on screen I don't think he knows what alpha counters/blowback attacks are also K-groove combine the JD system from mark of the wolves into the Rage from Samsho. JD allows life regen and rage build ups, so you are not dead if you are good enough even with low health
@@Hunt9-qb1if No one cares about the difference in presentation in the competitive context lmao. Are you going to start whining about the story mode next 🤦♂
12:30 - A small detail but nonetheless appreciated: when you mentioned the buttons changing between four and six, you left the sentence at "went in the opposite direction" without saying what the opposite was, as it's not needed. I don't know why but it always kind of annoys me when people (quite often) say what the obvious opposite thing is so thanks for streamlining the dialogue a bit by doing what you did.
hands down this IS the best fighting game ever in my opinion i longingly wait with fingers crossed for us to get a cvs3- but even if / when we do i suspect it still wont be as polished as this game was
Great video! Even though you say this was opinionated, I don't think anyone can argue against your points. Man, I wish we could just get a definitive CVS2 that adds stages and music from CVS1. That would be sick. Or even better, a CVS3! I can't imagine how crazy that roster would be.
It just needed a better balance and better history mode. It's pretty apparent when you see competitive games that everybody chooses the same 6 characters
You can argue the capcom vs snk 2 roster and balance of gameplay was better, but it lacked the charm, unlockables, stages, presentation and Music of the original Game which is a big deal For me.
This is a great video. I love all things Capcom vs SNK and I love the debate.Though one of the things that draws me to games the most is the presentation. I prefer CvS1 because of it’s super stylish presentation and the sound effects. These details were sort of lost in CvS2 Although it’s more technical, I gotta give it to CvS1.
@ 6:316:507:47 & 8:14 There's a slight, but important mistake at these time stamps. Every time you mention "counter attacks", you show a gameplay example of what is technically a counter attack, but the "counter attack" the grooves allow is different. "Counter Attack" is a defensive option where you press forward and both medium attacks together when you are blocking an attack. It allows you to come out of block stun with an attack that deals very little damage, and knocks your opponent down at the cost of meter. This is known as an "Alpha Counter" in SF Alpha (or more recently "Drive Counter" in SF6). The SNK equivalent would be Guard Cancel Blowback in KOF. The amount of meter you need to perform it is what's required to perform a level 1 super in each groove. C groove would be one stock out of 3. A groove would be the halfway marker. S groove would be when you fully charge the meter while "Max mode" is activated and ticking down. It takes all your remaining meter, and will still require max mode activation even when your health is flashing (this way you don't just get infinite free counter attacks). N groove requires one stock of meter that isn't used as a power up. When you've used a stock as a power up, you are still required to have another unused stock to perform Counter Attack. This is pretty nuanced, and completely changes whether it's worth it or not to use this technique depending on the groove you have chosen. What you showed in your examples was when you hit an attack button in neutral, and it makes contact with your opponent while they are in the startup of an attack of their own. Yes, this is also known as "counter hit", but it is a very different thing. This is a universal, system-wide mechanic that is available regardless of groove. A move connecting as a Counter in this context will do a little more damage, and causes more hit stun than normal. This allows for combos that are "counter hit only".
to your points (which i basically entirely agree with): - CvS1's ratio system always felt a little weird to me. like they were baking in top-tiers and low-tiers, almost? which is very strange to me but also i'm likely overthinking their design philosophy. regardless, free ratio is a WAY better system imo - the six grooves of CvS2 are really smart for not only giving the audience ways to mix and match characters and playstyles but honestly also as advertising? like if you think the N-Groove is cool well wait until you find out about the whole ass game that has it. is P-ism somehow your favorite? get ready to learn 3s buddy. idk it's interesting synergy - the roster really is a big draw; i do wish there was more extra representation but i can't be mad that Kyosuke and Hibiki somehow got into it rather than another SFA3 character or like. Hwa Jai. - i'm the big SNKhead so Terry having medium buttons is still tripping me up but yeah, good call from Capcom - i am also a big Yellowhead so i love that this game went with it for their color identity. CvS1's GUI is very Y2K yeah but i think CvS2's bright and geometric vibe is very futuristic in its own way. just two different philosophies of sorts but yeah absolutely all fair points and a very good watch! sorry to yap
I've never played the 1st CvS. Capcom vs SNK 2 is my favorite fighting game EVER!!! #1 in my book. Great times! Great memories. Alot of rage quitting in some matches. Soundtrack is EPIC and LEGENDARY!!!! Roster is Fantastic. I already was a Street Fighter fan. This game made me a King of Fighters fan. The stages are beautiful. A lot of fighting games might disagree but I love the easy access to special moves. 2002, Nintendo GameCube memories.
CVS1 imo had the single greatest aesthetics & soundtrack in a fighting game EVER. There’s still nothing quite like that Turn of the Millennium futurism that permeated anything “2000-related”, so Capcom ABSOLUTELY HIT A HOME RUN in that department! Unfortunately, the Groove system was a bit half-baked and the roster/tier system was a huge miss 🤷🏽♂️ Sure, CVS2 had some absolute BOPS and still plays the best out of any of Capcom’s 1990s output, but it kind of lost that magic from what CVS1 went for and instead just became “World Tour The Fighting Game”
CvS1 had better stages and intros; they were so cool. I disliked how bright most stages looked in CvS2 and the 3D background-objects looked out of place in a pixel-art game.
Capcom vs SNK 1 is the better game. The ratio system makes sense because a weak character like a skinny girl would never be as powerful as say Akuma. Its just a fact that some characters are stronger than others. The music in CvS1 is better. The intro's are better. The announcer is better. The overall "cool factor" is better. The only thing that needed to do is add in more characters to CvS 1. The 3D backgrounds in CvS 2 clash with the 2D pixel art. This wasn't a problem in CvS 1 because they did 2D backgrounds in CvS1. Another Con of CvS 2 is that the original SNK groove in CvS 1, that doesn't even exist naturally in CvS 2.
The version of Kyo they should've used in the original Capcom vs. SNK games is the white-jacket version from KoF 2000 - 2002. What was also needed is a prequel saga called "Capcom vs. SNK Zer0" where an Alpha Ryu first meets Kyo in his signature black school uniform.
100% agree. Actually is steel my favorite crossover fighting game all time. We need CvS3 with classic 2.5D style more or less like Melty Blood series did with Type Lumina.
Capcom’s roster isn’t really diverse unlike SNK’s roster which was since it was based on a fighting game of many fighting game characters. Characters like Hibiki, Haohmaru, and Nakoruru weren’t on King of Fighters yet which makes the quality on the SNK side. Might as well call it: “Street Fighter V.S. SNK.”
Just managed to play this amazing game on my retro device a week ago! it was really amazing and i loved the feel and visuals. (Buff Sagat, no 20 years isn't too late)
My question is, why did CvS2 go backwards in aesthetics and presentation when the art team had so much less work to do? The first CvS game had around 23 characters with brand new sprites, including all 18 of the SNK fighters and at least 5 re-designs on the Street Fighter side. I don't think Capcom has ever had a fighting game with that much new character artwork on Day 1. SNK has, but they didn't work on this game. CvS2 only adds 10 characters if you don't count Rolento's re-used Alpha sprites. That should have left time to work on other aspects of CvS2's presentation. Not counting the music, because that's a different team.
Respectfully I’m not sure this video needed to be made, lol. It’s pretty much widely agreed upon and known that CvS2 is a better game than CvS1. I love both, but gameplay wise 2 is clearly better. But I will say that I have definitely always loved the music, aesthetic, and overall presentation of CvS1 more for sure.
I remember going to buy this game upon release. As I’m leaving my apartment my friend approached my door and surprised me with a copy of the game. I was extremely excited, had a great time but something was missing from CVS2! I don’t know what it is but I get so bored playing/watching CVS2 and think the vanilla was darker, better stages and more footsie old school based. It just seems like CVS1 took much more skill, more classic gameplay The music and The boss characters is the only thing better in my op. Besides…..in the arcade I would go at least 5-0 CVS2 maybe 2 win streak…..Them mechanics seem a bit forgiving in CVS2 compared to vanilla in my op😮 I did kinda think the robot announcer seemed Corny/Cool
CvS2 is more polished on the eyes and giving it a modern feel and the technical side of it it's more advanced than CvS1. CvS1 also lacks my favorite char: Rock Howard.
CVS2 is my favorite fighting game ever. However the groove system was definitely a mistake. Its a bit of mechnanical overkill. And a lot of grooves are just way better than others. CA and K groove are really the only grooves you need. There are people who kind of make N groove work, and some characters like Iori or Morrigan do well in N groove. But yeah the groove system isn't balanced. Of course you will always find people who are super good at the game who make any groove work. But I wouldn't put money on winning a stack tournament in S or P groove. I could appreciate the minimalism of CVS1. I actually think sticking with 2 grooves and having univeral movement was better in a lot of ways. However CVS1 was always going to be considered a less complete game. Back then games just weren't released as full products. That is why there are games like CVS1 Pro that came out later and added some new things. CVS1 combo system was actually pretty much broken. I do think if they ever made a CVS3, I would't mind a 4 button layout. and I say this as a Capcom SF purist. The reason why it didn't work for CVS1 as well is because the sprites and animations were all ripped from Alpha games for the SF characters. But with new assets it could work especially if balanced right. And I do think they should go back to the 2 groove system, but give the grooves better options. and I personally think it should be a 1v1 game. Team games with no tag mechanic take a very very long time. And CVS is always going to have slower gameplay. So 1v1 makes a lot more sense.
While this game does look good Morrigan & Dan have the worst sprites in my opinion. Also it doesn't help they used the SF Alpha sprites of Cammy, Guile, Blanka, Sagat, etc. instead of recreating brand new ones like they did for Ryu, Ken, Chun Li, Akuma, and Bison. This game is still godlike nonetheless.
The only thing I didnt like of the capcom vs snk games aside from cvs chaos is the lazyness of just using sprites from different games which art styles dont match at all.
I actually prefer CvS1 but 100% CvS2 is a better game. I played CvS2 when it came out and was around for the discovery of roll cancels and well...that sucked all the fun out of the game for me. I'm sure it's evolved by now but there was a time when people kept spamming invincible moves. That and the absurdly broken A-groove combos made it really miserable to play at a competitive level. That and just like...I felt like I was forced into playing characters in CvS2 that weren't fun and I didn't particularly like. At least CvS1, for all its flaws, there were top tier characters that were fun for me to play. Just my opinion, this is 100% a me problem. And yeah, CvS2 was super fun at a casual level when both players are bad and don't know how to abuse the mechanics. Would love a new CvS game, it's been a while.
Me again! Cvs2 has better presentation? This is where I disagree. Look at 13:25 Reality in not brightly colored like that. Cvs1 had it better with the use of BLACK as seen in 13:59 You have to admit That looks better
10:24 any fighting game with actual megaman is automatically top tier. Evwn mvci. Idk how he wouldve played in a game that doesnt have mvc combos though
Sorry but as somebody who was also there when these games were around i think the 6 button thing was something that is way overblown cvsnk1 gave you access to a lot of normals through them being command normals meaning that you still had access to them and in combos also, as for the ratio system, sure cvsnk2 gives you all these ways to play when it actually comes down to competition name me a single person that's ever won a major with a ratio 4 character, really cvsnk2 fails exactly the same way cvsnk1 does in adding something that's meant to give you choice but ultimately once you start actually getting good at the game there's only really one 1 to play and that's 2 1 1 , i think there's a lot of new people that ike to big up cvsnk2 but these people often forget that cvsnk2 was removed off of evo for being boring to watch and taking too long it wasn't as popular as a lot of the american FGC like to pretend it was, not to say that cvsnk2 is a bad game it's not a bad game at all but there's 100% a lot of rose tinted specs when it comes to people revisiting older fighting games and the narratives around them
THIS VIDEO IS HEAVILY OPINIONATED BUT I UNDERSTAND IF YOU DISAGREE!
I love it. I was around when this game came out and it made a huge wave. You should a video for this vs third strike. Now THATS a battle
Hey bro how old are you, so i can understand your point of view. I played this when it was new in arcade, so im just trying to compare experience
@@venomtang Yo, you're lucky I saw this cause I barely check the comments! I'm 20 years old >:)
@@khanage1344 wow ya near 20 years apart in experience, what I can tell you, the talent today is very low compared to those days. the Jwong days
The first Capcom vs SNK game had better stage intros. The sequel had a better roster & more grooves & game modes
Well said.
I think the same for Marvel Vs. Capcom 1 and 2. I think 1 was able to have more personality because of lesser selection of characters whereas 2 was more focused on competitive/tournament play.
@NYCHeavyHitz212 Marvel vs Capcom 2 also had unforgettable music soundtracks. Who can ever forget "I Wanna Take You For A Ride"
@@JoshuaLowe-ci3wo I didn't like it at first because it went away from character themes(I love how on the previous installments the music would go from one character to another during a fight), but it's definitely not bad music by any means.
@@JoshuaLowe-ci3wo actually I remember that song it feels like a song in Laz Vegas especially in a casino lol.
I always felt what most do; CVS1 had better aesthetics and presentation but CVS2 had better mechanics and systems.
💯
Cvs1 - presentation
Cvs2 - gameplay
But I do miss some of the ex characters from cvs1
i rather have great gameplay
i don't miss the ex characters because they merged most of the Ex characters into CVS 2 anyway.. But I do miss the fact that Iori's Shiki Ya Sakazuki in CVS 1 was brutal to my opponent. :D
CVS2 made me want to be good at fighting games. The Roster, Music, All of the groove options, and alot of other stuff made me want to try this game out seriously. I legit think this is one of the best fighting games ever made. (In My Opinion)
I mean it's either this or Third Strike IMO, both are just APEX fighters
@@Magic_M_Hayashi Street Fighter 3rd Strike is more refined and a bit more polished in terms of character models, but other than that I'd say Capcom vs. SNK 2 is definitely the GOAT 2D fighting game.
0:20 thats a good thing. CVS2 is over 20 years old yet it is still being played today! That shows how great the game is
CVS2 is a legendary fighting game
Facts
💯💯💯💯💯💯%
It’s funny that Morrigan’s sprite gets dunked on the most, yet if the character is not Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Chun, Bison, or a character not seen in 2D in 6 years time, then they too also got a reused sprite from the Alpha series, some of which are near as old as Morrigan’s sprite.
That said, it’s still a great sprite that holds up perfectly fine, and when CvS3 does come to pass, the option to play as that Morrigan sprite better be there!
Cap vs SNK 2 is possibly THE best 2D fighter ever. Needs a remake/update…. Cuz there is a good deal of jank in the game.
Remove any jank and people will go insane
Is this some joke I’m not getting? I thought everyone preferred 2.
People prefer 2 but still like the combo system of the first game...at least that's what I was told
some people prefer 1 for its presentation
Is this some kind of a joke that you didn’t play the first game that had better presentation? It’s not that easy as you think it is clown. 🤡
Yeah. Basically what I was wondering.
I guess maybe some folks preferred 4 button mode?
Its just content man, dont worry about it, we know
I've been sleeping on this game it ends here . The grooves being based off 3s, motw, and kof98/samsho has sold me .
1:45-2:30 well CVS1 also had Pair Match Mode where you could pick any two characters
I turned 29 years old today and i am still love CVS2😀
Happy birthday! pleasure seeing you here 😁
Wide-screen hack in the footage makes the game look weird
While CvS2 is a great game, I think it suffers from a lot of the same 'issues' as MvC2. They're both extremely skill-based and mostly solved which makes them incredibly hard to get into at anything other than a casual level. Things like Roll Canceling, Paint the Fence, and Just Defense can really punish people hard. If you do 2v2 pair match with CvS1, I think its more approachable by a decent margin.
I guess the caveat to that is that there arent too many people in the world who can play at that level but maybe that changes here shortly with the collections.
Nice video, never knew much about the CVS series but I might have to boot up CVS2 on fightcade now
Just a small comment, but even the SNK side on CvS1 was still strong, people forgets to remember KoF by itself was already a crossover, Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting and Athena were all separate IPs, so SNK technically had 4 IPs shown in CvS1 (KoF characters counting separately)
Capcom is the one that never disappoints me in being so forced to put Street Fighter II characters... Seeing characters from Power Stone or Star Gladiator on the backgrounds only adds injury.
Was it so difficult to make a trio of Rival Schools? Is it so difficult to use Haggar instead of Zangief? Like jesuschrist...
Dude you dont understand we NEEDED E Honda, Blanka, Balrog and Vega instead of anyone from Darkstalkers and Red Earth!
@@e.s.4958 I both love your sarcasm, but I also hated going through that sentence a lot
All these years I've only played the game I've never drove into it thinking about the ratios Etc. Sometimes I enjoy how RUclips has many creative people giving out their thoughts. This is one of those times...thanks for the vid!!!
I always liked the 1v1 team aspect they took from the KOF games. Also ratio was awesome.
My friend and I would play this for hours. We split the characters between us and determined which victory pose likely meant the soul of the loser was consumed (Akuma's Heaven symbol appearing, the snake tattoo on Vega's arm coming to life, Vice climbing on top...). If that happened, the character was considered unplayable until their soul could be stolen back. God, good times.
Maaaan! CVS2! I've started playing it in 2005 something like that. It's still my favorite
Not sure where SvC Chaos and the Neo Geo Pocket Color game fit in the conversation here, but good analysis. You did forget that P-Groove is a combination of 3S and ST, and A-Groove may have some inspiration from Darkstalkers to an extent.
I predict that a third game in the series would play more like the Marvel series than CvS2 (which is kinda what SvC Chaos did at least in terms of the roster), to avoid overlapping with COTW/SF6, which is why I want to make a spiritual successor to CvS2, adding in even more grooves. SvC Chaos was ultimately the only game to reflect the early plans to have a variety of represented genres (albeit via sub-bosses/superbosses)
EDIT: With guests in SF6, now I'm anticipating what'll happen on SNK's end, and this MIGHT make it even more likely for a new game to resemble the Marvel series.
EDIT2: Aaaand now there’s a Marvel collection meaning Marvel proper might be back on the table.
There are no short hops in 94, S groove sounds more like 96, Or "Extra".
@12:28
I can't believe one sweep fucking killed Kyosuke!
In all seriousness, this video is super cool and informative!
7:55 - you can dash in KoF'94, but you can't run. KoF'96 was the first game in the KoF series with forward/backward rolls, short hops and the ability to run. Also the super jumps were different to KoF'94 and '95, but much easier to do.
11:14 What do you mean by steroids!
My boi Guif is all natural, fueling his body with the energy of his Loyal Fans 😤
Slight mistake in your explanation of K groove. Just defend also fills up your meter, you don't have to rely on taking damage. Just defend can also be executed air born, and it gives your character backwards momentum, unlike P-groove which gives directional momentum based on how you parried. Jumping back and parry causes your character to fall backwards, while jumping forward and parry causes your character to fall forward. Meanwhile, Just Defend will always cause your character to bounce backwards if jd was executed airborne.
CvS1/Pro actually had a free groove system on the home ports. There were also the EX characters that gave different properties (or in the case of SNK characters) wildly different movesets.
when he describes counter attack,
shows counter hit on screen
I don't think he knows what alpha counters/blowback attacks are
also K-groove combine the JD system from mark of the wolves into the Rage from Samsho.
JD allows life regen and rage build ups, so you are not dead if you are good enough even with low health
Going from 4 to six is great, because it mean that the SF characters get their important buttons back while the snk characters got 2 new buttons!
Everybody already knows 2 is better than 1.
Exactly
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better lol
@@joeresio calm down it ain’t way better. It’s shitty presentations doesn’t compare.
@@Hunt9-qb1if No one cares about the difference in presentation in the competitive context lmao. Are you going to start whining about the story mode next 🤦♂
12:30 - A small detail but nonetheless appreciated: when you mentioned the buttons changing between four and six, you left the sentence at "went in the opposite direction" without saying what the opposite was, as it's not needed.
I don't know why but it always kind of annoys me when people (quite often) say what the obvious opposite thing is so thanks for streamlining the dialogue a bit by doing what you did.
It’s the grove simplicity, ratio system and presentation that make CVS1 my favorite.
First time I've seen this game in Widescreen, it works better than I'd expect all things considered.
You forgot to mention the arcade mode where you can fight certain boss characters if certain conditions are met
I have Capcom vs SNK 2 for ps2
hands down
this IS the best fighting game ever in my opinion
i longingly wait with fingers crossed for us to get a cvs3- but even if / when we do i suspect it still wont be as polished as this game was
The difference in gameplay options is crazy
It's nuts to me now to see how this game came together. There's so much they had to put together.
Great video! Even though you say this was opinionated, I don't think anyone can argue against your points. Man, I wish we could just get a definitive CVS2 that adds stages and music from CVS1. That would be sick. Or even better, a CVS3! I can't imagine how crazy that roster would be.
The color editor in this game is beyond amazing
What's everyone's go-to groove, team, and ratios?
Mine are K-Groove, 1-Eagle, 1-Honda, and 2-Kim.
Capcom vs SNK 2 had it all:
1. Big roster
2. Many grooves
3. Great animation
4. Great music
5. Good looking sprites
6. Many modes
7. Epic boss battles
It just needed a better balance and better history mode.
It's pretty apparent when you see competitive games that everybody chooses the same 6 characters
You can argue the capcom vs snk 2 roster and balance of gameplay was better, but it lacked the charm, unlockables, stages, presentation and Music of the original
Game which is a big deal
For me.
This is a great video. I love all things Capcom vs SNK and I love the debate.Though one of the things that draws me to games the most is the presentation. I prefer CvS1 because of it’s super stylish presentation and the sound effects. These details were sort of lost in CvS2 Although it’s more technical, I gotta give it to CvS1.
@ 6:31 6:50 7:47 & 8:14
There's a slight, but important mistake at these time stamps.
Every time you mention "counter attacks", you show a gameplay example of what is technically a counter attack, but the "counter attack" the grooves allow is different.
"Counter Attack" is a defensive option where you press forward and both medium attacks together when you are blocking an attack. It allows you to come out of block stun with an attack that deals very little damage, and knocks your opponent down at the cost of meter.
This is known as an "Alpha Counter" in SF Alpha (or more recently "Drive Counter" in SF6). The SNK equivalent would be Guard Cancel Blowback in KOF.
The amount of meter you need to perform it is what's required to perform a level 1 super in each groove.
C groove would be one stock out of 3. A groove would be the halfway marker. S groove would be when you fully charge the meter while "Max mode" is activated and ticking down. It takes all your remaining meter, and will still require max mode activation even when your health is flashing (this way you don't just get infinite free counter attacks). N groove requires one stock of meter that isn't used as a power up. When you've used a stock as a power up, you are still required to have another unused stock to perform Counter Attack.
This is pretty nuanced, and completely changes whether it's worth it or not to use this technique depending on the groove you have chosen.
What you showed in your examples was when you hit an attack button in neutral, and it makes contact with your opponent while they are in the startup of an attack of their own. Yes, this is also known as "counter hit", but it is a very different thing. This is a universal, system-wide mechanic that is available regardless of groove.
A move connecting as a Counter in this context will do a little more damage, and causes more hit stun than normal. This allows for combos that are "counter hit only".
to your points (which i basically entirely agree with):
- CvS1's ratio system always felt a little weird to me. like they were baking in top-tiers and low-tiers, almost? which is very strange to me but also i'm likely overthinking their design philosophy. regardless, free ratio is a WAY better system imo
- the six grooves of CvS2 are really smart for not only giving the audience ways to mix and match characters and playstyles but honestly also as advertising? like if you think the N-Groove is cool well wait until you find out about the whole ass game that has it. is P-ism somehow your favorite? get ready to learn 3s buddy. idk it's interesting synergy
- the roster really is a big draw; i do wish there was more extra representation but i can't be mad that Kyosuke and Hibiki somehow got into it rather than another SFA3 character or like. Hwa Jai.
- i'm the big SNKhead so Terry having medium buttons is still tripping me up but yeah, good call from Capcom
- i am also a big Yellowhead so i love that this game went with it for their color identity. CvS1's GUI is very Y2K yeah but i think CvS2's bright and geometric vibe is very futuristic in its own way. just two different philosophies of sorts
but yeah absolutely all fair points and a very good watch! sorry to yap
Capcom vs SNK 2 is leagues better then the original. No one has ever disputed this but it’s always good to talk about this game
I've never played the 1st CvS. Capcom vs SNK 2 is my favorite fighting game EVER!!! #1 in my book. Great times! Great memories. Alot of rage quitting in some matches. Soundtrack is EPIC and LEGENDARY!!!! Roster is Fantastic. I already was a Street Fighter fan. This game made me a King of Fighters fan. The stages are beautiful. A lot of fighting games might disagree but I love the easy access to special moves. 2002, Nintendo GameCube memories.
Was already hyped to play the mvc collection with the homies but I'm hyped even more for this so sick i get to play CVS2 on modern systems
CVS1 imo had the single greatest aesthetics & soundtrack in a fighting game EVER. There’s still nothing quite like that Turn of the Millennium futurism that permeated anything “2000-related”, so Capcom ABSOLUTELY HIT A HOME RUN in that department! Unfortunately, the Groove system was a bit half-baked and the roster/tier system was a huge miss 🤷🏽♂️
Sure, CVS2 had some absolute BOPS and still plays the best out of any of Capcom’s 1990s output, but it kind of lost that magic from what CVS1 went for and instead just became “World Tour The Fighting Game”
ok
I think cvs1 stages and presentation just clears 2, which has it pretty good too but y'know i like the juice of cvs1
The stages/backgrounds of part 1 were at least 4 times better than CvS2's!! ❤
Thank you
wow all these years and I didn't know what that ratio system meant. I thought characters were missing lol
Just like my profile says on everything.
CVS2 for life
Cvs2 was the game that had me in a hold in high school.... still one of the best fighters ive ever played
Its without a doubt the deepest fighting game ever. The amount of options with its roster size and grove system is literally limitless.
CvS1 had better stages and intros; they were so cool. I disliked how bright most stages looked in CvS2 and the 3D background-objects looked out of place in a pixel-art game.
great video, but i wish that the game wasnt in fullscreen in this vid, the giant black gaps on the screen's edges make it look horrible
Capcom vs SNK 1 is the better game.
The ratio system makes sense because a weak character like a skinny girl would never be as powerful as say Akuma. Its just a fact that some characters are stronger than others.
The music in CvS1 is better. The intro's are better. The announcer is better. The overall "cool factor" is better. The only thing that needed to do is add in more characters to CvS 1.
The 3D backgrounds in CvS 2 clash with the 2D pixel art. This wasn't a problem in CvS 1 because they did 2D backgrounds in CvS1.
Another Con of CvS 2 is that the original SNK groove in CvS 1, that doesn't even exist naturally in CvS 2.
You build meter in K-Groove from Just Defend, not just taking damage.
It was one of my favourites on PS2, what a time it was to be a gamer
The version of Kyo they should've used in the original Capcom vs. SNK games is the white-jacket version from KoF 2000 - 2002.
What was also needed is a prequel saga called "Capcom vs. SNK Zer0" where an Alpha Ryu first meets Kyo in his signature black school uniform.
My first SF and kof game
I love CAPCOM V SNK 2
100% agree. Actually is steel my favorite crossover fighting game all time. We need CvS3 with classic 2.5D style more or less like Melty Blood series did with Type Lumina.
2.5d looks so gross tho
Capcom’s roster isn’t really diverse unlike SNK’s roster which was since it was based on a fighting game of many fighting game characters. Characters like Hibiki, Haohmaru, and Nakoruru weren’t on King of Fighters yet which makes the quality on the SNK side. Might as well call it: “Street Fighter V.S. SNK.”
Yea they really should have added 2 darkstalkers more, Ryu from BOF, a armored warriors character, and a megaman character
Just managed to play this amazing game on my retro device a week ago! it was really amazing and i loved the feel and visuals. (Buff Sagat, no 20 years isn't too late)
My question is, why did CvS2 go backwards in aesthetics and presentation when the art team had so much less work to do? The first CvS game had around 23 characters with brand new sprites, including all 18 of the SNK fighters and at least 5 re-designs on the Street Fighter side. I don't think Capcom has ever had a fighting game with that much new character artwork on Day 1. SNK has, but they didn't work on this game. CvS2 only adds 10 characters if you don't count Rolento's re-used Alpha sprites. That should have left time to work on other aspects of CvS2's presentation. Not counting the music, because that's a different team.
Since SvC: Chaos is revealed and remastered, i hope CvS2 gets a re-release
I missed those yellow diamonds as the transition
We won
Respectfully I’m not sure this video needed to be made, lol. It’s pretty much widely agreed upon and known that CvS2 is a better game than CvS1. I love both, but gameplay wise 2 is clearly better. But I will say that I have definitely always loved the music, aesthetic, and overall presentation of CvS1 more for sure.
The only people that prefer CvS1 are the ones who really hate roll cancelling and Blanka or people that like the 2D backgrounds more.
No, the people who prefer the first game just like the presentation better which is a lot better
CVS2 is the better game but CVS1 is the better Crossover as it really does offer the best mix of Capcom and SNK play Styles.
I remember going to buy this game upon release.
As I’m leaving my apartment my friend approached my door and surprised me with a copy of the game.
I was extremely excited, had a great time but something was missing from CVS2!
I don’t know what it is but I get so bored playing/watching CVS2 and think the vanilla was darker, better stages and more footsie old school based.
It just seems like CVS1 took much more skill, more classic gameplay
The music and The boss characters is the only thing better in my op.
Besides…..in the arcade I would go at least 5-0 CVS2 maybe 2 win streak…..Them mechanics seem a bit forgiving in CVS2 compared to vanilla in my op😮
I did kinda think the robot announcer seemed Corny/Cool
I even prefer Capcom vs. SNK 2 over Marvel vs. Capcom 2.
Well, CVS2 is the superior game. When you learn cvs2, mvc2 feels like a button mashing fest
What really broke cvs1 for me was 4 ratio 1 ken's 😂 we had SO MUCH FUN with those low level characters
CvS2 is more polished on the eyes and giving it a modern feel and the technical side of it it's more advanced than CvS1. CvS1 also lacks my favorite char: Rock Howard.
CvS2 is the best... even with roll canceling which wasn't mentioned in the video. The glitch just became part of the game.
I don't remember CvS1 having 4 buttons, pretty sure both games have 6 buttons
I listen to "this is true love " every day 🎉
I think with how the business is run today it will be really hard for both of the companies to want to make another one, but one can always dream ig.
Wish capcom made like a anbernic device and put cvs 1 and 2 and able to plug into monitors and TV with online .
CVS 1 was a true vibe.
CVS2 is my favorite fighting game ever. However the groove system was definitely a mistake. Its a bit of mechnanical overkill. And a lot of grooves are just way better than others. CA and K groove are really the only grooves you need. There are people who kind of make N groove work, and some characters like Iori or Morrigan do well in N groove. But yeah the groove system isn't balanced. Of course you will always find people who are super good at the game who make any groove work. But I wouldn't put money on winning a stack tournament in S or P groove.
I could appreciate the minimalism of CVS1. I actually think sticking with 2 grooves and having univeral movement was better in a lot of ways. However CVS1 was always going to be considered a less complete game. Back then games just weren't released as full products. That is why there are games like CVS1 Pro that came out later and added some new things. CVS1 combo system was actually pretty much broken.
I do think if they ever made a CVS3, I would't mind a 4 button layout. and I say this as a Capcom SF purist. The reason why it didn't work for CVS1 as well is because the sprites and animations were all ripped from Alpha games for the SF characters. But with new assets it could work especially if balanced right. And I do think they should go back to the 2 groove system, but give the grooves better options. and I personally think it should be a 1v1 game. Team games with no tag mechanic take a very very long time. And CVS is always going to have slower gameplay. So 1v1 makes a lot more sense.
I like this game better than the original streetfighter 2 games , great gameplay super moves are awesome etc 👍👍👍
Im here happy because Capcom made it. It´s coming again guys
2 is just the superior game
I wish there was a slight upgrade in the sprites and some balancing though because it is seriously broken
We need cvs3 with both Fei Long & Kim Dragon
While this game does look good Morrigan & Dan have the worst sprites in my opinion. Also it doesn't help they used the SF Alpha sprites of Cammy, Guile, Blanka, Sagat, etc. instead of recreating brand new ones like they did for Ryu, Ken, Chun Li, Akuma, and Bison. This game is still godlike nonetheless.
I will gladly Blanka roar to punish anyone's Genocide Cutter.
The only thing I didnt like of the capcom vs snk games aside from cvs chaos is the lazyness of just using sprites from different games which art styles dont match at all.
I actually prefer CvS1 but 100% CvS2 is a better game. I played CvS2 when it came out and was around for the discovery of roll cancels and well...that sucked all the fun out of the game for me. I'm sure it's evolved by now but there was a time when people kept spamming invincible moves. That and the absurdly broken A-groove combos made it really miserable to play at a competitive level.
That and just like...I felt like I was forced into playing characters in CvS2 that weren't fun and I didn't particularly like. At least CvS1, for all its flaws, there were top tier characters that were fun for me to play.
Just my opinion, this is 100% a me problem. And yeah, CvS2 was super fun at a casual level when both players are bad and don't know how to abuse the mechanics. Would love a new CvS game, it's been a while.
K groove meter can be built via JD not only taking a beating
This should be on modern consoles and pc with cross play.
I prefer CvS1. The sequel is basically Sagat vs Capcom and SNK.
Any real fight gamer knows cvsnk2 is technically the best fighting game ever
CVS2 is a masterpiece. it had all that you love from both capcom fighters and snk fighters
Me again!
Cvs2 has better presentation?
This is where I disagree.
Look at 13:25
Reality in not brightly colored like that.
Cvs1 had it better with the use of BLACK as seen in 13:59
You have to admit
That looks better
Exactly easily the dumbest statement I’ve ever heard
CVS 2 IS GOAT 🐐 Raging Storm for Geese never gets old
10:24 any fighting game with actual megaman is automatically top tier. Evwn mvci. Idk how he wouldve played in a game that doesnt have mvc combos though
Then after this, Terry and Mai are now in SF6 lol
Sorry but as somebody who was also there when these games were around i think the 6 button thing was something that is way overblown cvsnk1 gave you access to a lot of normals through them being command normals meaning that you still had access to them and in combos also, as for the ratio system, sure cvsnk2 gives you all these ways to play when it actually comes down to competition name me a single person that's ever won a major with a ratio 4 character, really cvsnk2 fails exactly the same way cvsnk1 does in adding something that's meant to give you choice but ultimately once you start actually getting good at the game there's only really one 1 to play and that's 2 1 1 , i think there's a lot of new people that ike to big up cvsnk2 but these people often forget that cvsnk2 was removed off of evo for being boring to watch and taking too long it wasn't as popular as a lot of the american FGC like to pretend it was, not to say that cvsnk2 is a bad game it's not a bad game at all but there's 100% a lot of rose tinted specs when it comes to people revisiting older fighting games and the narratives around them