Sentencing him to hang meant that he was unworthy of dying by the sword wielded by the King Of The North, so Robb was being overly generous for Rickard despite his terrible crimes.
@@miminovak1107I was just watching that scene, and someone in the comments said that they wondered what Rob would do to the men who hung the girls. I replied and stated that they didn't need to wonder, and referenced this scene.
@@fearlessfailure2848 he wouldn't have done anything. What do you think"raiding" and burning villages means. Wanton rape and murder. The only reason this became an issue is because they were high born.
@@Afrimusican especially since The blackfish is like 6'6" so Karstark must be very close to that. That's so much power going into a punch, only a true northman like Karstark could've taken that lol
@@jacksondolly3248 please.. size means fuck all compared to technique. Seen small guys knock out big guys with 1 hit. Ofc it helps but it aint even close to the most important.
@Paul Dickau i Think you would be surprised. Most of the west didnt have many martial arts untill after middle ages. But sure, some skill ofc. But my point still stands, I'd rather be a 5'5 wrestler against a 6'3 muscle beast than I wanna be the muscle beast without the skill
I loved Robb Stark. He was Game of Thrones' Alexander the Great. He tried too much to be like his father and made poor decisions, but everyone in Game if Thrones did. He was also young and didn't anticipate being attacked at a wedding. His youth aside, he never lost a battle, outmaneuvered the greatest commander in Westeros, the most powerful, and the wealthiest. Tywin had to kill him at a wedding because he couldn't beat him on the battlefield as he thought he would.
they made Robb too good in the series, his only real triumph was when he captured Jaime in the Whispering woods, even that was awful by sending thousands of his men for slaughter as distraction to Tywin....Edmure was better in the books, even wiser than Robb and they made him look like an idiot in the series...
@@angelcap4371 That was strategic because by gaining Tywin's heir, they had leverage. Without Jaime, Robb had nothing over Tywin. He had less men, less resources, less experience, commanded less respect from the lords of Westeros. He captured Jaime, and then won every battle. Both of those are triumphs. Robb was a good leader. An inexperienced one, but he was good. Too honorable, just like Ned Stark. Just like Jon Snow.
@@ericksantos4555 agreed, which is why I commended him for that...it was...Oxcross was good as well, but that was due to GreyWind incidentally picking up a secret trail and killing the Lannister army while they sleep...though its war, so I give him that too..but he made many blundered decisions...he's more like a good field commander than a king actually.
Robb and Jon both tried to be like Ned in a lot ways but it's deeper than that since in the books it talks about how the Starks have always been the honor of the North and also Robb is young so of course they would try and disobey him. Cause if Need was alive and gave the order to not touch the boys it would have not gone the same way as it did for Robb.
@@deelove2882 it went out of hand when Catelyn freed Jaime, which was why Edmure sent a bounty on Jaime. It wasn't Robb like what Roose said, it was Edmure who had him hunted for a reward, as Edmure believed the Lannisters wont keep their word and to appease the Kastarks...Edmure was way wiser in the books.
Nothing Robb the boy said was ever badass, little 14 yr old wimp lost the entire North, lost his brothers, lost his mother, lost his fiance and unborn child, lost everything and died crying for mommy 😂😂😂😂 Little Robby Stark was the WORSE king in history of the North, lost the only war he fought killed by his own bannerman cause he was such a wanker 😂😂😂
saeta I like Robb Stark and look at him as the true King in the North, and not the bastard. But honour does not win wars. Tell me which is more dishonourable. Do whatever it takes to win the war, even if it means sacrificing your virtue? OR Keep your morals and lose the war, losing everything and everyone you have sworn to protect. Your bannermen, your smallfolk, your loved ones, and your justice. Seems to me, almost every single one of Robb's decisions from here on out led them closer and closer to defeat. He was not stupid, but he could not made the better decision.
As I said in some other comment, I know about the realpolitik vs moral discussion. But then again, moral and virtue doesnt admit any discussion you either have it or you dont, and if you think killing children can go unpunished for WHATEVER strategic reason, Im afraid you have been rooting for the wrong side all along.
If he was right and just he would of kept his word to Walder and married his daughter. If Eddard was truly right and just then he wouldn't of tried to have Littlefinger buy the gold cloaks for him.
Robb: It took five of you to murder two unarmed squires? Karstark: Not murder your Grace. Vengeance! Robb: ... it took five of you to vengeance two unarmed squires?
It required the effort of 5 able bodied homo spaiens who are biological men to accomplish the task of removing the life of, also known as murder, of two other young homo sapiens who are biologically male.
He wasn't underrated. He just died way too early in the series. There's not too much to discuss on a dead character after they move on with the rest of the 40 main characters.
don't count seeing him towards the end, they've cut and excluded so many characters for the sake of production and tv audiences are more casual than book readers especially when it comes to ASOIAF
Yeah at this point I'm pretty sure he's dead at this point. They wrote off other important characters with rather quick deaths that are shoehorned like (SPOILER ALERT) Olenna's defeat at High garden.
@@masterplokoon8803 they’re quotes. The first one was Jorah Mormont (or Ser Barristan Selmy, can’t remember tbh) saying to Dany, the second was Roose Bolton saying to Robb Stark
Sometimes I forget just how incredible this show used to be. There were real stakes and the characters had to make these impossible decisions with ramifications that affected countless other events and characters down the line.
I will always remember Game of Thrones for it’s 5 first seasons. After that, the plot armour becomes clear and the story rushes for the ending and skips the character developpement and great storytelling that the first seasons had.
Too sad that others had thicker plot armour. Robb could have become the true King North deserves and a true tactician. Give him 100.000 dothraki 2 dragons the unsullied Northmen and Wildlings and he would conquer they Known world.
@@nattrem7126 doesn't help George still hasn't finished the book series. Kind of difficult to keep the same pacing when the source material ran dry and now it's ad lib time
True..they seem to be rushing to the end. Less story plot. I mean look how the Night king died...so un eventful. Sure it was unexected but it was also disappointing
@@1987StoneAge that's why I don't give much credit to the series. It got me to the books but darn they have a huge amount of source material to use from it. 3rd and 4th book had so many new characters and sub plots that could last a couple of seasons. They went and took ideas from the books and change them drastically. That's what I don't like from it. You can choose to ignore pieces of it but not change the whole point
Anybody else love the fact that Blackfish nails Karstark right in the face the moment he mentions Robb’s father, as if to say “Don’t you EVER disrespect Eddard Stark in front of me again.” The respect that Ned commands is amazing.
Blackfish also struck Karstark because he murdered Tully soldiers that were guarding the Lannister boys. "In war you kill your enemies!" It was more apparent that Rickard Karstark didn't care who he killed at this point
@@emmanuelsilvera8032 And that same respect is what's motivating the northern lords to backstab the Boltons and place one of his kids as the lord of Winterfell, but it's also motivating northern clansmen from the remote mountains to answer the call of a southern lord and march through the deep snows of winter just to rescue his "daughter". Hugo Wull: "I would sooner have my men die fighting for THE NED'S little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze on there cheeks. No one sings songs off men like that. As for me, I am oldd, and this will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when an axe bites deep into a Bolton skull". Do you hear Lannister soldiers making speeches like that? Do you hear of Bannermen of the Westerlands marching to King's Landing to save Tywin's little girl when she was imprisoned by the High Sparrow? Even Jaime abandonded her.
In season 3 we’re told the first names of Lord Karstark and his two murdered sons. In season 8 they couldn’t be bothered to write in who was lord of Storm’s End.
Baldur we always know who the lord is though and as Preston Jacobs put it, Dany not knowing is like invading Europe and not knowing who the prime minister of France is.
No he wasn’t if he was he would of kept his word and he’d still be alive it’s funny that out of all the stark children the one who isn’t a stark is the most like ned
Squirrelcake he broke his promise and married the girl because he had physical relations with her. That's honorable in its own way. And breaking a promise and marrying the one you love isn't even close to as evil as murdering innocent kids.
I mean Robb was trying to win the war and had a strategy his own people kept undermining which was close to actually working before the Red Wedding, Edmure just didn't get strategy
@@captasticts8419 Even the actors on the show know it's true. Most of them know season 8 was horrible. Look it up. It's actually quite hilarious. So you can bitch and fan boy all you want to defend this pathetic season. It won't change the fact that season 8 was horrible any less true.
5 лет назад+505
I miss this Game of Thrones. Quality acting, good writing, actual attention to details (accents, wardrobe)
@TheScorpio Vampyre- Ehh, the writers are struggling a bit without the books to guide them. Now it's mostly fanservice and most of the main characters have plot armor. We all know it. Jaimie should have drowned, Tormund should have died twice over with the number of dead attacking him. Greyworm should've died, and Brianne got her story finished by being knighted. They should have died!
The thing I find most interesting is Karstark's face at 0:49 He looks shocked at Robb's response. He's actually shocked at the very notion of showing sympathy for Lannisters. I think it's explored more in the books, but Karstark legitimately doesn't care for a single Lannister. He views everyone even associated with the them as scum that need to be killed. Karstark doesn't want peace, he doesn't want to show mercy, he WANTS this war because it means he gets to kill Lannisters. And at 0:49 he's shocked that Robb doesn't.
Can you blame him? The whole war was started because the Lannisters killed his liege lord and kidnapped said lord’s family, then the Lannister’s go and kill his sons as well. THEN Catelyn frees the very man who killed said sons. I’m not saying what Lord Karstark did was right, but I definitely understand it.
I do also want to add my own interpretation that it was, for a split second, when Karstark realized what he had actually done. That, despite them being Lannisters, they were boys that had done no wrong except be born Lannisters. That he had just killed two defenseless children in a dishonourable way. That Robb was able to temporarily shock him into that line of thinking due to his pure emotion and whatever loyalty he still commands Of course, it goes away in a moment as its then replaced with him realising that Robb didnt hate the Lannister name as much as he did, as you said, which then overpowers the initial. So it's 3 types of shock in 1 -that he just killed 2 boys -that Robb made him feel regret for Lannisters -That Robb doesnt hate all Lannisters. I'm mostly reaching here but I think it adds a little extra layer.
@@Androidbrotherhood1 The Truth is that the wars between the north and Kings Landing allies was much more intense than those night king-zombie bullshit.I always said that.Finally someone who shares the same opinion (: Lets hope that now that night king is dead the show becomes again Game Of Thrones.
"This one was the watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others die." Elsewhere, on separate parts of the Seven Kingdoms, both Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon both nodded their heads in approval and gave a silent hum of agreement, though they didn't understand why. P.s. I found this epic comment on another video elsewhere, just wanted to share this with you all!
@@youtubestayatyourrootsforfsakeYou make it sound as if Tywin is bloodthirsty murderer. He does not enjoy in killing, does it as a means. It's in the books.
@@blacklight4720lol because drowning a whole family and their people in a gold mine. Then when a songs written about it having it played when you murder a whole family at a wedding. Yeah can’t see why people think he’s blood thirsty. He’s not. But he wants people to fear him. And the Lannister mainly because his father was so weak. And if his father hadnt been so weak there would have been no rebellion and the reynes probably would still be alive.
Catelyn made a stupid mistake. Robb made another one. And now Robb compounded it. By the way, if I were king, I'd love to have a guy like Blackfish as subordinate. The punch was fantastico.
What about the boys who were sons of the men that were fighting for him ? The lannisters were boys but were in the battlefield, under the lannister banners
My favorite part of this scene is the last look Robb gave to Catelyn. Because he knows that the reason he has no choice but to behead Rickard is because Catelyn lost him all the leverage he had when she released Jaime. Sure, Robb would always try to take the path of honor when taking hard choices. But at this exact point he can't even entertain *not* killing Rickard since Tywin still holds Sansa, and he just lost both the Lannister boys. Because of his mother, he *has* to kill Karstark. I see Robb's last look as him telling her "This is also your fault".
That's the thing most of the people complaining about Robb in these comments seem to have forgotten. Catelyn not only directly prompted the murder of the two Lannisters by helping Jaime escape -- she simultaneously eliminated the only leverage Robb had over Tywin Lannister. Catelyn Stark ranks right behind Littlefinger and Tywin Lannister as the cause of House Stark's downfall.
True but you could also argue Robb drove Catelyn to this. If Robb had listened to Catelyn and never sent Theon back to Pyke, they never would've lost Winterfell and Bran and Rickon wouldn't be (presumed) dead. I don't deny that Catelyn definitely screwed up releasing Jamie but she's a mother who just lost her husband, father, (presumably) two sons, (presumably) daughter, and her other daughter is a hostage. She's definitely not thinking clearly when she released Jamie.
@@DrRockso1987 well theon was a good boy always, he stood for Robb with all his heart, it was natural for Robb to trust him and truly even we the audience didn't doubt him at that point either, did we? Theon's father is the one to blame for turning the boy against his brother (by heart)
@@chiraggoyal6265 Yeah but it was still short-sighted on Robb’s part. Despite how brotherly Theon was to Robb, he was still, in essence, a hostage. Even Ned knew that he would have to keep Theon close (at least in the books he did). At best, they should’ve sent someone else to treat with Balon. Then they know if that person doesn’t return then Balon most likely rejected the deal and he can’t be trusted. But that’s what makes Robb human. He made mistakes as did Catelyn. And for the record, I agree. Balon is a jackass. “I’m gonna start a SECOND rebellion after the first one failed so horribly and cost me all my sons!” Ugh…
Robb has a good mind and his heart is in the right place, but like his father, he is fatally attached to his honor. Part of being a true king means being willing to give everything to protect your kingdom; be it your life, or your name.
It would have been honourable to offer Karstark the black or his head. He should have given him until after the war to decide, then held him as a hostage to keep his men. Ned was honourable, but knew war. I'm sure he would've made the right choice. But then again Karstark probably wouldn't have killed hostages if Ned was commanding. It was his stupid pride. Karstark mocked him so Robb wanted to look tough in front of the other lords.
@@burningsickle No she doesn't. She does everything to protect *herself.* That's why she's the most despicable character in the show... after Daenerys.
I see a lot of criticism for Robb in the comments here. He was 16, trying to rule a country and wage a war. How many 16 year olds are qualified for that? I think he did the best he could. No, he wasn't ready for the task, but he did a lot better than many other rulers in GOT.
This moment has so many layers. Robb being so much like Ned. His own version of justice and what is righteous. But also.....he's thinking of Bran and rickon when he yells. He's thinking of how one of his best friends betrayed him and murdered his innocent little brothers bc they were related to him. So heartbreaking and shows how great of a character Robb truly was. Miss Richard Madden on this show.
@@ramonoctaviofloresmeza6780 as much as i like robb and admire his honor, that's not at all how he died. he died broken and afraid, with the blood of his wife and unborn child on his hands, knowing he is beaten, his mother is about to be murdered, his brothers and sister are going to die, his father will go unavenged and all the men who loyally fought and died for him did so for nothing. he died thinking he was a miserable failure.
@@michaeld7945 As much as I hate reading it everything you just said was so perfectly accurate. The king in the north, an unparalleled war time commander, A man fighting for honor and love and all of the right things, died a scared little boy asking for his mother.
Robb was 15 in the books and winning almost every battle against Tywin. He was such a leader. Huge loss from the North. If he had someone like Tyrion on his side as an advisor he would be unstoppable.
@@thegreatid3595 If in the TV show he had been honorable from the beginning he would not have broken his pact with the Freys. I also think that executing Karstark wasn't entirely a bad decision.
I had forgotten what GOOD Game of Thrones looked like. Holy shit, no wonder the world was obsessed. Also FASCINATING to think about this scene, knowing that Robb ignored ALL the advice here and killed Karstark anyway, which led to them needing Frey, which led to Walder Frey betraying and killing Stark and his entire army, practically single handedly winning Tywin's war for him, leads to so many more events that unfold throughout the following five seasons. One seemingly small choice, one small wrong decision from Robb Stark ended up costing millions of people their lives. Damn this show really was good when it was good.
@emmy lite It was a VERY good show, yes. Cause none of the characters are perfect. They all have flaws and, at least for most of the series, those characters' actions and decisions have real consequences in their world. It's a bit of depth and realism rarely seen in the fantasy genre on this scale so, yes. Great show.
@emmy lite To me it actually does make sense that Robb was a tactician genius and never lost a battle, but made one mistake that led to his downfall. The reason for this is battle strategy is a mental game, one which he was well trained and prepared for, on top of having a natural talent at it, one could even say he was prodigy in that area. He was intelligent in battle maneuvers, he had a very logical and mathematic brain. His decision to execute Karstark came from his feelings, not his logic. He acted on impulse, rage and emotion. He wasn't entirely emotionally mature at that point because he would have only been around 15 years old. That's a lot of pressure for someone that young. So to me, it makes perfect sense. But at any rate, if you have a problem with it, then take it up with the author of the book.
@emmy lite Lol Okay. You're just arguing now just to argue. If you hate the show so much don't watch it and shut up about it. I think the show WAS good and my opinion shouldn't bother you so much. I won't waste anymore of my time on this petty disagreement.
I love the duality of Robb and Joffery Both killed people in high ranking positions for completely different reasons; one out of cruelty and another out of justice.
Every time some one asks me my favorite scene from this series they're always surprised at my choice, this one. The acting by Richard madden here is masterful. Just raw pure emotion by a man who is disgusted by the sight of 2 dead innocent children.
@@ShadowwingMD As if they would've had the choice to not accompany the Lannisters to war. They didn't kill anyone. They were innocent prisoners. Their only "crime" was being Lannisters. And that was enough for the Karstarks to kill them in their cells.
I know many people didnt like Robb because of the decisions he made, but for me he wss one of my favourite characters on the show and as you can see in that clip Richard Madden was brilliant!
It was a dumb move but i get why you would want to kill a guy who murdered 2 litle boys. Dumbasses who murder kids just because their own kids were murdered deserve to die.
Frek This was of course Catelyn's fault. She showed defiance against King Robb and this embolden the Karstarks to do this stupid move. Jaime killed his son. He deserves vengeance and she denied it. If Robb had just allowed Lord Karstark to kill just one of the children or even let him imprison Catelyn himself, then maybe Lord Karstark would have respected King Robb. Now because of Robb thinking with his penis, he lost almost 4000 men (The Freys) and because of his mother, 2300 men (The Karstarks). Robb Stark should have just married the Frey girl and marched his army to the Vale and compel the Lords of the Vale to honour the memory of Ned Stark and join his cause. I bet the lords of the Vale would just ignore that crazy bitch Lysa. Honour means a lot to them. Especially if its a war to avenge Lord Jon Arryn and Lord Eddard Stark.
Letting him kill one of the children would have been just as bad. Rob wanted to kill the Karstarks because they killed two young innocent boys. Sure it cost him the war in hindsight but still wouldnt feel right to have a bunch of kidkillers in your army.
@@BPBrutalPenguin Because they no longer have the books to use. Now they're showing their real writing skills, which is piss poor. There's so much to cover still and they've decided to waste the budget on a small last season filled with battles and dragons. First 4 were great, 5 and 6 were decent and entertaining but you could tell it was getting a bit worse, season 7 was trash with a few great moments, nothing more
Two of thé...there's a whole list of actors outperforming eachother, yet.. most of the cast 'outdid themselves'. Atleast, as long as the writing was good(enough) the actors added the extra level that made this show so amazing. Charly Dance as Tywin Lannister OWNED every scene he was in. Having it written in the script like that is one thing. Portraying it in súch a masterclass is all on Charles Dance! Jack Gleeson; people HATED him for playing Goffrey Baratheon... he was thát good! David Bradley; Walder Fray, véry close second-most hated character in the show. Peter Dinklage; Won an Emmy for his 'confession and demanding Trial by Combat'. nuff said. Jerome Flynn: Ser Bronn of the f*ckin Blackwater. Unknown actor before this show... One of the most liked characters after. Iain Glenn: Ser Jorah Mormont. underrated, played his part to perfection, ánd 'mentored' Emilia Clark! Pure class! Liam Cunningham: Ser Davos Seaworth?... no comment needed? Ciaran Hinds: Mance Rayder, King Beyond the Wall. Also a héavily underrated actor! Jim Broadbent; Archmaester Ebrose. He also played Horace Slughorn in the Harry Potter movies. Excellently portrays intelligent men with a humoristic approach. Not that easy to do! Rory McCann: Sandor 'the Hound' Clegane. Played the character if he was born to do it! Perhaps thé most underrated actor of them all? Sean Bean: Ned Stark? Bean's an A-class actor Mark Addy; Robert Baratheon! Even the Directors said afterwards they were regretting nót giving wáy more screentime to 'Ned and Robert', as they had an ámazing chemistry. Michael McElhatton: Roose Bolton. Played the character só intimidatingly well, you'd actually get a little scared of him! Quiet, Calculating mastermind. Alfie Allen: Theon Greyjoy, again, nuff said. Went through one of thé most intense character transformations in the whole show. Julien Glover: Grandmaester Pycelle. Actually played sort of a dual-role: The old 'seemingly decrepit' Pycelle, ánd a fár more vital version! Under-acknowlegded skill? James Cosmo: Lord Commander Jeor Mormont! Just a béast of an actor! Showed it évery bit in his role. Owen Teale: Ser Alliser Thorne. you hated him, but you understood his bitterness.. Very impressive performance! Stephen Dillaine: Stannis Baratheon. Was a fan-favorite!! Diana Rigg(r.i.p): Lady Olenna Tyrell. Established actress who showed she was still thát good! In the show, she was the only one stand up to Tywin Lannister. Jonathan Pryce: The High Sparrow. Seeing him walk around in his bést potatosack, giving his most devoted beliefs to his zealotry.. Brilliant. Clive Russell: Brynden 'the Blackfish' Tully. The vid above shows again that he's an A-class actor Tobias Menzies: Edmure Tully. To play such a stunted fool is a LOT harder then you think. Especailly a fool who thinks he's pretty good. Michelle Fairly: Catelyn Stark. Amazing performance. You really saw the 'protective mother' in her. Every scene. Katie Dickie: Lysa Arryn.... Oh man, dont get me started on how hárd that Lysa-b*tch just needed a good slap... Well played ms Dickie, well played! Mark Lewis Jones: "Very good as Shagga, son of Dolf, not so good on the directing/editing to give him so féw scenes'. Jones is of the same level as Dance or Rigg. Nikolai Koster-Waldau: Jaime fookin Lannister. Underwent an even greater character-transformation then Theon Greyjoy. Performed it admirably! Gwendoline Christie; Brienne of Tarth. She played the living sh*t out of that character! Perfectly cast, perfectly acted! Alexander Siddig: Doran Martell. Shame he had such little screentime Pedro Pascal: Oberyn Martell. Marvellous performance! Just stunning! Indira Varma: Ellaria Sand. Again, Marvellous, received too little screentime. and suffered from stupid writing. It certainly wasnt her fault. Aiden Gillen; Petyr Baelish. Admirable performance. Shame how he ended. Stil lcant believe someone who was SO clever, ended in such a naieve death. Conleth Hill: Varys. IMPECCABLE!!! Jason Momoa: Kahl Drogo!... fk man, ,that was one scáry mo'fo!! Earned his breakthrough on the big screen through this role. Nuff said. Harry Lloyd: Viserys Targaeryen... Man you HATED that brat, i hated him, éverydone did!!... well acted!! Bella Ramsey: Lyanna Mormont. Stole people's hearts instantly as the savagely hard Lady of Bear Island! Beautiful performance. Carice van Houten: Lady Melisandre. Underrated again. People still quote her 'The night is dark and full of terrors'. Ben Crompton: 'Dolorous' Edd. The guy was as hilarious as he was serious, as he was a true and loyal friend to Jon. Kristian Niarn: HODOR!!!... hodor hodor...hodor!...hodor hodor... hodor! Kristofer Hivju: Tormund Giantsbane. Beast of a character. beast of an actor. Anton Lesser: Qyburn... seriously that guy gave you the creeps!!...brr!! Donald Sumpter: Maester Luwin. Shame he didnt get more scenes. Pilou Asbaek: Euron Greyjoy. Writers misdid him a bit... He played his part well though. Very clever... very insane too. James Faulkner: Randyll Tarly...You detested him for being such a horrible father to Sam. Lived and died with honor in the show. Well played mr Faulkner. Burn Gorman: Karl Tanner(of Gin Alley?)... man was hé a first-rate c*nt in the show...excellent portrayal. Clive Mantle: Greatjon Umber. Again, too little screentime, but man this fellow was enjoyable to watch! Well portrayed. Prolly a few more even, but i'd have to look up the casting list.. I recall all these names from the show, because the actors were just thát good! Its 'amazing' how the writers managed to totally 'F.U.B.A.R' the last seasons, with súch an amazing cast! So many actors that really understood their characters and stories... For 5+ seasons it was all gréat... best show of all time... Then it deteriorated... Last season(s) were more spectacle and overwhelming CGI that overshadowed the true class that made this show so great: The terrific writing and attention to detail, and the amazing Cast that went above and beyond which gave us súch a masterclass.
This was probably the most competent Edmure was in the whole show. Really wish they’d given him more credit. Hell even in the books from what I understand he’s not super clever so it would’ve been really interesting to see a competent Edmure lead the river lords.
but will grrm really be able to deliver a better ending than D&D? the books have already bloated out of control, they're not tightly written anymore. will he even ever finish?
Something thats masisvely overlooked in this whole ordeal is that the Karstarks not only murdered the squires, but also Robb's bannermen who were guarding them. This wasnt just a horrible act, it was a full on betrayal to Robb
I think Kevan Lannister actually respected Robb, Kevan’s son is one of the boys that died and he had to hear about Robb executing Lord Karstark. Robb agreed to trade Kevan’s other son for a Glover they had imprisoned. Then when Joffrey announced that he was going to serve Sansa Robb’s head, Kevan was actually disgusted.
Probably one of the most badass lines in the enire show. "I was only the Watcher!! ""This one was only the watcher, hang him last so he may watch the others die,"
I like that for a second after Rob screams "they were boys", Lord Karstark gets this look, almost as though that thought hadn't even occurred to him. Then he tries to justify it again. So good.
Game of Thrones is the series that really taught me how morally ambiguous life and people are, much less characters on TV shows. Robb and Ned were immensely honourable but that characteristic led to both of their downfalls which begs the question, is it more honourable to be righteous or to do the right thing? Fascinating.
I always felt Ser Barristan let down Ned when the "not king" ordered Ned , the Regent, to be arrested and murdered. Ser Barristan should have acted in that moment. And for not acting in that moment but being an honorable man, he was later slapped down by the same king.
If he indeed wanted to serve justice to traitors and murderers in his ranks no matter how high born they were he should have killed Catelyn Stark in the first place. She released their most valuable prisoner without his consent and without any official agreement with the opposite side. Of course he could not kill his mother, that I can understand. Following the same logic he should not have killed lord Rickard as well. You don't "serve justice" only when it's convinient for you. This was one of his 2 big mistakes(other is not marrying Frey's daughter) that sealed his fate. He might have been a great warrior with good abilities of planning military operations and organizing logistics but he lacked a long term strategy thinking - this is what got himself and many other Northerners killed. He was simply not ready for such a big role in the huge war he was fighting in.
If my mom undermined me like that she'd be imprisoned for life. I couldnt behead her but she'd be robbed of freedom for the rest of her days. Her irrational short sighted thinking caused endless issues. Catelyn Tully is literally a plot device. She fucks shit up to get the plot moving
Robb was too much like his father for his own good. Best Character in the show though, I was absolutely gutted at his death. Wanted to see him win so badly.
Its scenes like this that are missing in season 8, scenes that question morality,loyalty,duty, personality,honor,right or wrong and consequences of choices
Affan Mahdhir I also notice how they went through with the “Imbecile Edmure” idea. It’s funny because I’m the books he’s a very average and decent man. The mill incident- Robb didn’t tell him what to do and he defends his land and does good at it.
@@documentationslave397, poor Edmure had just been made a fool in nearly every scene he’s been in. Honestly the Tullys other than Catelyn and Lysa just were treated poorly in the show. The amount of screentime that was reduced for them was massive and the way Blackfish just died in season 6 was so disappointing. It’s a shame cause the casting for him was magnificent
It really didn't occur to Rob to simply make Rickard and his accomplices join the Night's Watch? That would have solved the problem. The killers receive a lifelong punishment, the Night's Watch's ranks are bolstered, and the Karstarks remain loyal because Robb chose to spare their lord. This option basically clears up every issue with no downside.
@@DavidbarZeus1 Did you forget the original plan to punish Ned Stark for his "crimes" was to make him join the watch? So clearly lords can be punished for crimes in such a manner.
The thing is, Robb was right. Karstark committed treason and killed two unarmed children who had done him and his family no wrong. But Kat and Talia were right, too. Robb should have waited. Those Lannister boys deserved justice, but the timing of it cost Robb the war and his, his wife and his mother's lives.
Karstark's crime pales in comparison to Catelyn's crime. Letting Jaime go was one of the dumbest decisions in the entire show and I'm even willing to include S8 in that, which was riddled with dumb decisions, one after the other. The fact that she got off with that so lightly will never stop bothering me.
@@Xylarxcode lmao, killing innocent children is worse than an act which was done with the intention of saving children. Thank god we don’t live in a world built on ur shitty morals.
@@3moor21 If they were so innocent what were they doing in prison? Robb should have immediately release d both of them after he won the battle, is it justice to keep innocent boys imprisoned? When you move with an army, you are part of the army and have to be ready for consequences *.*
Everytime I see these epic scenes from the first seasons I am almost reminded of how good this show was before the dawning shadow that was season 7 and 8. I grief in pain
Karstark betray the Starks twice, when they abandon Rob, and when they join Ramsey to fight again Jon! Glad they got crushed by the Knights of the Vale
This is just like Ace Rothstein in Casino when he didn't give that one dumbass a lower level job just to keep that city Counselman happy. It isn't the right thing to do, but it is the right thing to do to keep your job.
I feel like the on'y one in the comments on Robb's side here. You can NOT tolerate one of your commanders doing such acts or you are no better that that little shit on the Iron throne.
"This one was only the Watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others die"
Seven Hells, that was badass.
And that Watcher still cried for mercy after what he allowed to happen...he was one poor excuse for a Northerner.
No, that was cruel. What he was supposed to do, kill his superiors and his lord?
The guy participated in killing two injured boys...and you say his sentence was cruel?
well, if they really made him do it and he wasn't brave enough to refuse... hanging seems like a exaggerated punishment for that.
Sentencing him to hang meant that he was unworthy of dying by the sword wielded by the King Of The North, so Robb was being overly generous for Rickard despite his terrible crimes.
Lord Karstack sort of forgot they were boys.
but those boys certainly didn't forget about him
Best thing to come out season 8 😂
Pan John 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I burst out laughing when I saw this.
Well memed my lord
lord karstark killing two boys had more impact than dany burning a million
there aren’t a million people in kings landing 😂 she probably killed around 10,000
Intrinsity ruclips.net/video/H1mAJK_cb1s/видео.html
dumbass
Intrinsity half a million. That’s the number we are consistently givin
Yeah look the last season isnt canon
Cersei blowing up the friggin' Vatican.
"Hang him last so he can watch the others die". Possibly the most hardcore line in the show.
A close second of brienne’s “two quick deaths” so badass
If Rob was crueler, he would take his eyes.
@@miminovak1107I was just watching that scene, and someone in the comments said that they wondered what Rob would do to the men who hung the girls. I replied and stated that they didn't need to wonder, and referenced this scene.
@@fearlessfailure2848 After your comment i looked up that scene as i couldn't remember it and i actually saw your comment there lol
@@fearlessfailure2848 he wouldn't have done anything. What do you think"raiding" and burning villages means. Wanton rape and murder. The only reason this became an issue is because they were high born.
Tommen died twice in this series :)
Andrew Wang same with Ned (rewatch the Tower of Joy fight)
Derpy wat? I don't get it.
xxjareexx one of the guys killed is played by Sean Bean
One of the Lannister boys also plays Tommen later on. GOT made a recast for Tommen.
Luis D. Ruiz Santiago b
I fucking love the Blackfish loyal to the end and that solid right hook he gave Lord Karstark
Blackfish is one of my favorite characters. One of the only true good men in the series.
Yeah but Karstark ate it well. A true warrior
@@Afrimusican especially since The blackfish is like 6'6" so Karstark must be very close to that. That's so much power going into a punch, only a true northman like Karstark could've taken that lol
@@jacksondolly3248 please.. size means fuck all compared to technique. Seen small guys knock out big guys with 1 hit. Ofc it helps but it aint even close to the most important.
@Paul Dickau i Think you would be surprised. Most of the west didnt have many martial arts untill after middle ages. But sure, some skill ofc. But my point still stands, I'd rather be a 5'5 wrestler against a 6'3 muscle beast than I wanna be the muscle beast without the skill
I loved Robb Stark. He was Game of Thrones' Alexander the Great. He tried too much to be like his father and made poor decisions, but everyone in Game if Thrones did. He was also young and didn't anticipate being attacked at a wedding. His youth aside, he never lost a battle, outmaneuvered the greatest commander in Westeros, the most powerful, and the wealthiest. Tywin had to kill him at a wedding because he couldn't beat him on the battlefield as he thought he would.
they made Robb too good in the series, his only real triumph was when he captured Jaime in the Whispering woods, even that was awful by sending thousands of his men for slaughter as distraction to Tywin....Edmure was better in the books, even wiser than Robb and they made him look like an idiot in the series...
@@angelcap4371 That was strategic because by gaining Tywin's heir, they had leverage. Without Jaime, Robb had nothing over Tywin. He had less men, less resources, less experience, commanded less respect from the lords of Westeros. He captured Jaime, and then won every battle. Both of those are triumphs. Robb was a good leader. An inexperienced one, but he was good. Too honorable, just like Ned Stark. Just like Jon Snow.
@@ericksantos4555 agreed, which is why I commended him for that...it was...Oxcross was good as well, but that was due to GreyWind incidentally picking up a secret trail and killing the Lannister army while they sleep...though its war, so I give him that too..but he made many blundered decisions...he's more like a good field commander than a king actually.
Robb and Jon both tried to be like Ned in a lot ways but it's deeper than that since in the books it talks about how the Starks have always been the honor of the North and also Robb is young so of course they would try and disobey him. Cause if Need was alive and gave the order to not touch the boys it would have not gone the same way as it did for Robb.
@@deelove2882 it went out of hand when Catelyn freed Jaime, which was why Edmure sent a bounty on Jaime. It wasn't Robb like what Roose said, it was Edmure who had him hunted for a reward, as Edmure believed the Lannisters wont keep their word and to appease the Kastarks...Edmure was way wiser in the books.
"They were boys" is one of the best lines, and certainly one of the best delivered lines in the entire show
Such outrage and fury.
So much so that even Karstark looks shocked
the irony is that Rob isn't that much older than those boys.
Nothing Robb the boy said was ever badass, little 14 yr old wimp lost the entire North, lost his brothers, lost his mother, lost his fiance and unborn child, lost everything and died crying for mommy 😂😂😂😂
Little Robby Stark was the WORSE king in history of the North, lost the only war he fought killed by his own bannerman cause he was such a wanker 😂😂😂
@@LongJohnSilver-es6hjbro your ignorance is fabolous
Apparently one of the boys resurrected and became king later
Gate7religion spoiler alert
I feel like it was a joke to reference the incest of jaime and cersei.
@Kourgan what is stuck up your arse?
Then yeeted himself out a window
oops it seems we bring back from the dead the wrong one we wanted joffrey to be back only to die again
Rob was in the end, his father's son. Always doing what was right and just.
Exactly; it makes me so mad how everyone here attacks him. He care about moral and virtue as well, not only the strategic angle
saeta I like Robb Stark and look at him as the true King in the North, and not the bastard.
But honour does not win wars.
Tell me which is more dishonourable.
Do whatever it takes to win the war, even if it means sacrificing your virtue?
OR
Keep your morals and lose the war, losing everything and everyone you have sworn to protect. Your bannermen, your smallfolk, your loved ones, and your justice.
Seems to me, almost every single one of Robb's decisions from here on out led them closer and closer to defeat.
He was not stupid, but he could not made the better decision.
And utterly foolish
As I said in some other comment, I know about the realpolitik vs moral discussion. But then again, moral and virtue doesnt admit any discussion you either have it or you dont, and if you think killing children can go unpunished for WHATEVER strategic reason, Im afraid you have been rooting for the wrong side all along.
If he was right and just he would of kept his word to Walder and married his daughter. If Eddard was truly right and just then he wouldn't of tried to have Littlefinger buy the gold cloaks for him.
Robb: It took five of you to murder two unarmed squires?
Karstark: Not murder your Grace. Vengeance!
Robb: ... it took five of you to vengeance two unarmed squires?
Two unarmed children, who were squires.
It required the effort of 5 able bodied homo spaiens who are biological men to accomplish the task of removing the life of, also known as murder, of two other young homo sapiens who are biologically male.
Adrian Vega Karstark: ...yes
@@baccaismemebob2603 😂
@@baccaismemebob2603 😂😂😂
Robb Stark was such an underrated character in this show. Everyone was always about Jon Snow but Robb was my favorite character.
@@ericaeva4408 I'm gonna be honest, I don't know who that is. I'm just a huge Robb Stark fan. I'm guessing he's a Robb fan as well?
@@sweatyguysteve2056 sorry, no. Rocket man is the Elton John movie that just came out yesterday, and Robb (Richard Madden) plays a big role in it
He wasn't underrated. He just died way too early in the series. There's not too much to discuss on a dead character after they move on with the rest of the 40 main characters.
@@Brollyssweetface People discuss Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, etc...all the time. Rob Stark is rarely mentioned at all. He is underrated.
@@ericaeva4408 Ok gotcha, I didn't realize he was in that movie. He is a great actor though.
dat punch from the blackfish tho 😂😂😂😂
Collin Lee Blackfish was a total bad arse. I was howling pissed they killed him off screen.
At least he's still alive in the books.
Like they "killed" the hound off screen... ;)
don't count seeing him towards the end, they've cut and excluded so many characters for the sake of production and tv audiences are more casual than book readers especially when it comes to ASOIAF
Yeah at this point I'm pretty sure he's dead at this point. They wrote off other important characters with rather quick deaths that are shoehorned like (SPOILER ALERT) Olenna's defeat at High garden.
Collin Lee Hell yeah! That shit was clean bro!
And now Robb starts to realize why Tywin is the way he is. Being a commander eats you alive over time.
tywin is like he is because his father was weak and he hated him for what he was.
H3Vtux is
Tywin drowned people to death when he was like twenty
@@Carlos-ln8fd b/c they deserved it
@@defaulter264 I think it had more to do with Tywin trying way too hard to prove why you shouldn't mess with the Lannisters.
God I would have loved to see Rob And Jon have more scenes together.
I would have loved to see more stark interactions. rob and ned didn't even talk to each other in the entire series
@@Sammybloom259 Barely did on the books as well
@@musclemanmanmuscle3720 Yeah, I hated that. I loved the dynamic between the starks
Why would you want such an amazing character like Robb want to spend time with a bastard like jon
@@wasekhasan1094 Jon isn't a bastard he is the hier to the iron throne a Targaryen ohh spoiler alert
"Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar died."
"The high road's very pretty, but you'll have a hard time marching your army down it."
Obnoxious.
@@PR--un4ub The truth often is
@@Snowie7826 What truth?
Rhaegar did not march through the high road.
@@masterplokoon8803 they’re quotes. The first one was Jorah Mormont (or Ser Barristan Selmy, can’t remember tbh) saying to Dany, the second was Roose Bolton saying to Robb Stark
Robb: THEY WERE BOYS!! Look at them!
Karstark: Tommen...?
They had Cersei's son for exchange and they let Karstark kill him...what a dumbasses, Cersei would exchange Sansa for him lol
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Tommen wasn't there....
One of the Lannister boys shown was the same actor who played Tommen
The boy did a god job acting so they cast him for adult Tommen later
Sometimes I forget just how incredible this show used to be. There were real stakes and the characters had to make these impossible decisions with ramifications that affected countless other events and characters down the line.
I will always remember Game of Thrones for it’s 5 first seasons. After that, the plot armour becomes clear and the story rushes for the ending and skips the character developpement and great storytelling that the first seasons had.
Too sad that others had thicker plot armour. Robb could have become the true King North deserves and a true tactician. Give him 100.000 dothraki 2 dragons the unsullied Northmen and Wildlings and he would conquer they Known world.
@@nattrem7126 doesn't help George still hasn't finished the book series. Kind of difficult to keep the same pacing when the source material ran dry and now it's ad lib time
True..they seem to be rushing to the end. Less story plot. I mean look how the Night king died...so un eventful. Sure it was unexected but it was also disappointing
@@1987StoneAge that's why I don't give much credit to the series. It got me to the books but darn they have a huge amount of source material to use from it. 3rd and 4th book had so many new characters and sub plots that could last a couple of seasons. They went and took ideas from the books and change them drastically. That's what I don't like from it. You can choose to ignore pieces of it but not change the whole point
Anybody else love the fact that Blackfish nails Karstark right in the face the moment he mentions Robb’s father, as if to say “Don’t you EVER disrespect Eddard Stark in front of me again.” The respect that Ned commands is amazing.
He wasn’t disrespecting Ned tho…he was disrespecting Robb and that’s why the Blackfish punched him
Blackfish also struck Karstark because he murdered Tully soldiers that were guarding the Lannister boys. "In war you kill your enemies!" It was more apparent that Rickard Karstark didn't care who he killed at this point
The respect that Ned commanded is also what got him killed and decimated his house.
No, he called the king a boy.
@@emmanuelsilvera8032 And that same respect is what's motivating the northern lords to backstab the Boltons and place one of his kids as the lord of Winterfell, but it's also motivating northern clansmen from the remote mountains to answer the call of a southern lord and march through the deep snows of winter just to rescue his "daughter".
Hugo Wull: "I would sooner have my men die fighting for THE NED'S little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze on there cheeks. No one sings songs off men like that. As for me, I am oldd, and this will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when an axe bites deep into a Bolton skull".
Do you hear Lannister soldiers making speeches like that? Do you hear of Bannermen of the Westerlands marching to King's Landing to save Tywin's little girl when she was imprisoned by the High Sparrow? Even Jaime abandonded her.
In season 3 we’re told the first names of Lord Karstark and his two murdered sons. In season 8 they couldn’t be bothered to write in who was lord of Storm’s End.
Jon Twat Gendry was??
@@Mrbadwolfguy no, the one before the invader said so
Jon Twat right that shit was cringe, like nobody in the hall had any idea who the new lord of Storm’s End is, not pertinent information or anything
Baldur we always know who the lord is though and as Preston Jacobs put it, Dany not knowing is like invading Europe and not knowing who the prime minister of France is.
Nor could they bother to come up with a name for the "new Prince of Dorne".
Like King Robert labelled Eddard so long before, Robb was an honorable fool.
and a hypocrite
No he wasn’t if he was he would of kept his word and he’d still be alive it’s funny that out of all the stark children the one who isn’t a stark is the most like ned
lordlossize GG How was he a hypocrite exactly?
Squirrelcake he broke his promise and married the girl because he had physical relations with her. That's honorable in its own way. And breaking a promise and marrying the one you love isn't even close to as evil as murdering innocent kids.
He should have run back to winterfell. Now he has his head on a spike.
for once Edmure is talking sense.
TheRefractingOne I always talk sense.
lmao xd you made my day
Dude your comment is everything 😂
I feel so bad for Edmure. He was a good lord that genuinely loved his people and did his best to help Robb, but Robb was a bit of a dick to him.
I mean Robb was trying to win the war and had a strategy his own people kept undermining which was close to actually working before the Red Wedding, Edmure just didn't get strategy
The Good Old Days. When No One Was SAFE!
@Cult Mechanicus No, it's an accurate statement.
@@MisterUnknown707 nah
@@captasticts8419 Yeah, unfortunately it's true.
@@MisterUnknown707 not really tho
@@captasticts8419 Even the actors on the show know it's true. Most of them know season 8 was horrible. Look it up. It's actually quite hilarious. So you can bitch and fan boy all you want to defend this pathetic season. It won't change the fact that season 8 was horrible any less true.
I miss this Game of Thrones. Quality acting, good writing, actual attention to details (accents, wardrobe)
Script and acting was incredible.
What do you mean? Game of thrones is getting better and better. lol
@TheScorpio Vampyre Agreed!!!
@TheScorpio Vampyre- Ehh, the writers are struggling a bit without the books to guide them. Now it's mostly fanservice and most of the main characters have plot armor. We all know it. Jaimie should have drowned, Tormund should have died twice over with the number of dead attacking him. Greyworm should've died, and Brianne got her story finished by being knighted. They should have died!
@TheScorpio Vampyre s8e3 was literal shiit
Robb was so great. I miss him terribly. The North Remembers.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.
Nathan Poppen the nort remembars
Too bad the foreign poon was just too strong for him to resist. And his *honor* getting in the way too.
#TeamLannister
@@archi4226 oof that team failed by the end, didn't it?
The thing I find most interesting is Karstark's face at 0:49
He looks shocked at Robb's response. He's actually shocked at the very notion of showing sympathy for Lannisters.
I think it's explored more in the books, but Karstark legitimately doesn't care for a single Lannister. He views everyone even associated with the them as scum that need to be killed. Karstark doesn't want peace, he doesn't want to show mercy, he WANTS this war because it means he gets to kill Lannisters. And at 0:49 he's shocked that Robb doesn't.
That's the view of many people in conflicts sadly.
Can you blame him? The whole war was started because the Lannisters killed his liege lord and kidnapped said lord’s family, then the Lannister’s go and kill his sons as well. THEN Catelyn frees the very man who killed said sons. I’m not saying what Lord Karstark did was right, but I definitely understand it.
I do also want to add my own interpretation that it was, for a split second, when Karstark realized what he had actually done. That, despite them being Lannisters, they were boys that had done no wrong except be born Lannisters. That he had just killed two defenseless children in a dishonourable way. That Robb was able to temporarily shock him into that line of thinking due to his pure emotion and whatever loyalty he still commands
Of course, it goes away in a moment as its then replaced with him realising that Robb didnt hate the Lannister name as much as he did, as you said, which then overpowers the initial. So it's 3 types of shock in 1
-that he just killed 2 boys
-that Robb made him feel regret for Lannisters
-That Robb doesnt hate all Lannisters.
I'm mostly reaching here but I think it adds a little extra layer.
A lot like Jet in ATLA, sadly.
Back when game of thrones was still game of thrones..
During this time GOT was the greatest show of all time. Now it's gone so far down hill i barely recognize it.
@@Androidbrotherhood1 The Truth is that the wars between the north and Kings Landing allies was much more intense than those night king-zombie bullshit.I always said that.Finally someone who shares the same opinion (: Lets hope that now that night king is dead the show becomes again Game Of Thrones.
@@Jim-fi4dc Yeah we have the same opinion about it
it still is
"This one was the watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others die."
Elsewhere, on separate parts of the Seven Kingdoms, both Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon both nodded their heads in approval and gave a silent hum of agreement, though they didn't understand why.
P.s. I found this epic comment on another video elsewhere, just wanted to share this with you all!
@@youtubestayatyourrootsforfsakeYou make it sound as if Tywin is bloodthirsty murderer. He does not enjoy in killing, does it as a means. It's in the books.
@@blacklight4720lol because drowning a whole family and their people in a gold mine. Then when a songs written about it having it played when you murder a whole family at a wedding.
Yeah can’t see why people think he’s blood thirsty.
He’s not. But he wants people to fear him. And the Lannister mainly because his father was so weak. And if his father hadnt been so weak there would have been no rebellion and the reynes probably would still be alive.
Catelyn made a stupid mistake. Robb made another one. And now Robb compounded it.
By the way, if I were king, I'd love to have a guy like Blackfish as subordinate. The punch was fantastico.
He really put his back into that slug
Sorry. I hit thumbs down by mistake. Good observation
Gotta hand it to Robb, those boys belonged to the family who killed his father, and still inacted justice on their behalf.
That takes alot.
David Martinez the boys didnt do anything to him
Difference 'tween vengeance and justice.
What about the boys who were sons of the men that were fighting for him ?
The lannisters were boys but were in the battlefield, under the lannister banners
Its not real mate
That's some fucking SJW view on this. He should have sided with the Northmen instead of the weak southerners
My favorite part of this scene is the last look Robb gave to Catelyn.
Because he knows that the reason he has no choice but to behead Rickard is because Catelyn lost him all the leverage he had when she released Jaime.
Sure, Robb would always try to take the path of honor when taking hard choices. But at this exact point he can't even entertain *not* killing Rickard since Tywin still holds Sansa, and he just lost both the Lannister boys. Because of his mother, he *has* to kill Karstark.
I see Robb's last look as him telling her "This is also your fault".
That's the thing most of the people complaining about Robb in these comments seem to have forgotten.
Catelyn not only directly prompted the murder of the two Lannisters by helping Jaime escape -- she simultaneously eliminated the only leverage Robb had over Tywin Lannister. Catelyn Stark ranks right behind Littlefinger and Tywin Lannister as the cause of House Stark's downfall.
True but you could also argue Robb drove Catelyn to this. If Robb had listened to Catelyn and never sent Theon back to Pyke, they never would've lost Winterfell and Bran and Rickon wouldn't be (presumed) dead.
I don't deny that Catelyn definitely screwed up releasing Jamie but she's a mother who just lost her husband, father, (presumably) two sons, (presumably) daughter, and her other daughter is a hostage. She's definitely not thinking clearly when she released Jamie.
@@DrRockso1987 well theon was a good boy always, he stood for Robb with all his heart, it was natural for Robb to trust him and truly even we the audience didn't doubt him at that point either, did we? Theon's father is the one to blame for turning the boy against his brother (by heart)
@@DrRockso1987 war requires pragmatism. The best generals and tacticians were men. This is for a reason.
@@chiraggoyal6265 Yeah but it was still short-sighted on Robb’s part. Despite how brotherly Theon was to Robb, he was still, in essence, a hostage. Even Ned knew that he would have to keep Theon close (at least in the books he did).
At best, they should’ve sent someone else to treat with Balon. Then they know if that person doesn’t return then Balon most likely rejected the deal and he can’t be trusted.
But that’s what makes Robb human. He made mistakes as did Catelyn.
And for the record, I agree. Balon is a jackass. “I’m gonna start a SECOND rebellion after the first one failed so horribly and cost me all my sons!” Ugh…
George R.R. Martin every time he writes a new character: 2:27
Robb has a good mind and his heart is in the right place, but like his father, he is fatally attached to his honor. Part of being a true king means being willing to give everything to protect your kingdom; be it your life, or your name.
Or your Honour. For all of those you have sworn to protect.
AlabamaSoldier Well said, bro.
It would have been honourable to offer Karstark the black or his head. He should have given him until after the war to decide, then held him as a hostage to keep his men.
Ned was honourable, but knew war. I'm sure he would've made the right choice. But then again Karstark probably wouldn't have killed hostages if Ned was commanding.
It was his stupid pride. Karstark mocked him so Robb wanted to look tough in front of the other lords.
Cersei does everything to protect 'her kingdom' at the end of the show - is she a preferable ruler to Robb Stark?
@@burningsickle No she doesn't. She does everything to protect *herself.* That's why she's the most despicable character in the show... after Daenerys.
I see a lot of criticism for Robb in the comments here. He was 16, trying to rule a country and wage a war. How many 16 year olds are qualified for that? I think he did the best he could. No, he wasn't ready for the task, but he did a lot better than many other rulers in GOT.
Yup. The makings of a true king. The King in the North!
J. Cobb is that a 16 year old? nah brah
the character is 16
Gandalf Grey the character in the books is 16. I guess they made him older in the show
Meandrous Phoenix i think hes like 22 in show
This moment has so many layers. Robb being so much like Ned. His own version of justice and what is righteous. But also.....he's thinking of Bran and rickon when he yells. He's thinking of how one of his best friends betrayed him and murdered his innocent little brothers bc they were related to him. So heartbreaking and shows how great of a character Robb truly was. Miss Richard Madden on this show.
This was when Robb Stark was officially doomed. Robb plays fair. Tywin plays to win.
Neither got what they played for.
Robb Stark died believing what was right for his people and Tywin Lannister died being murdering by a son who hated him.
@@ramonoctaviofloresmeza6780 whom he also hate
@@ramonoctaviofloresmeza6780 as much as i like robb and admire his honor, that's not at all how he died. he died broken and afraid, with the blood of his wife and unborn child on his hands, knowing he is beaten, his mother is about to be murdered, his brothers and sister are going to die, his father will go unavenged and all the men who loyally fought and died for him did so for nothing. he died thinking he was a miserable failure.
@@michaeld7945 As much as I hate reading it everything you just said was so perfectly accurate. The king in the north, an unparalleled war time commander, A man fighting for honor and love and all of the right things, died a scared little boy asking for his mother.
The Black Fish just coming in with the gauntlet right cross when Karstark called Robb "boy" is just badassly majestic.
Guy hits like a truck and I love it!
Anyone else keep rewatching the line “they were boys”? Brilliant acting from Richard Madden
"This one was only the watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others die."
Robb was an absolute savage and badass
Robb was 15 in the books and winning almost every battle against Tywin. He was such a leader. Huge loss from the North. If he had someone like Tyrion on his side as an advisor he would be unstoppable.
Him being 15 makes his stupidity make way more sense
He had good advisors though Edmure his wife and Catelyn all told him the right thing and he ignored it. His honor is what lost him the war.
@@thegreatid3595 If in the TV show he had been honorable from the beginning he would not have broken his pact with the Freys. I also think that executing Karstark wasn't entirely a bad decision.
THEY WERE BOOOOISSSSZ!!!
I like how you commented this twice
@@booognish I like how they commented twice when it doesn't sound at all like what Robb said and it wasn't funny either time anyway. lol
I had forgotten what GOOD Game of Thrones looked like. Holy shit, no wonder the world was obsessed.
Also FASCINATING to think about this scene, knowing that Robb ignored ALL the advice here and killed Karstark anyway, which led to them needing Frey, which led to Walder Frey betraying and killing Stark and his entire army, practically single handedly winning Tywin's war for him, leads to so many more events that unfold throughout the following five seasons. One seemingly small choice, one small wrong decision from Robb Stark ended up costing millions of people their lives.
Damn this show really was good when it was good.
@emmy lite It was a VERY good show, yes. Cause none of the characters are perfect. They all have flaws and, at least for most of the series, those characters' actions and decisions have real consequences in their world. It's a bit of depth and realism rarely seen in the fantasy genre on this scale so, yes. Great show.
@emmy lite To me it actually does make sense that Robb was a tactician genius and never lost a battle, but made one mistake that led to his downfall. The reason for this is battle strategy is a mental game, one which he was well trained and prepared for, on top of having a natural talent at it, one could even say he was prodigy in that area. He was intelligent in battle maneuvers, he had a very logical and mathematic brain. His decision to execute Karstark came from his feelings, not his logic. He acted on impulse, rage and emotion. He wasn't entirely emotionally mature at that point because he would have only been around 15 years old. That's a lot of pressure for someone that young. So to me, it makes perfect sense. But at any rate, if you have a problem with it, then take it up with the author of the book.
@emmy lite Lol Okay. You're just arguing now just to argue. If you hate the show so much don't watch it and shut up about it. I think the show WAS good and my opinion shouldn't bother you so much. I won't waste anymore of my time on this petty disagreement.
@emmy lite please stop
@emmy lite lmao
A young character made some great decisions and some bad ones = bad show
You are a joke
I love the duality of Robb and Joffery
Both killed people in high ranking positions for completely different reasons; one out of cruelty and another out of justice.
Every time some one asks me my favorite scene from this series they're always surprised at my choice, this one. The acting by Richard madden here is masterful. Just raw pure emotion by a man who is disgusted by the sight of 2 dead innocent children.
Innocent well... they were PoW and members of an enemy army. But they were not guilty of other mans crimes for sure.
@@ShadowwingMD As if they would've had the choice to not accompany the Lannisters to war.
They didn't kill anyone. They were innocent prisoners. Their only "crime" was being Lannisters. And that was enough for the Karstarks to kill them in their cells.
I know many people didnt like Robb because of the decisions he made, but for me he wss one of my favourite characters on the show and as you can see in that clip Richard Madden was brilliant!
Think people were just frustrated that he was soo unwilling to compromise anything that came close to his honor.
The one thing about Tywin Lannister, he fed his dogs.
Those wolves... they're picky eaters.
the way he delivers that line is fucking perfect
2:30 Sometimes justice is a luxury that we cannot afford.
And not all men should be treated equal under the law, especially a man who provided you with 2,300-4,000 soldiers (throughout the war). lol.
nodinitiative and also lost two of his sons in the battlefield.
It was a dumb move but i get why you would want to kill a guy who murdered 2 litle boys. Dumbasses who murder kids just because their own kids were murdered deserve to die.
Frek This was of course Catelyn's fault. She showed defiance against King Robb and this embolden the Karstarks to do this stupid move. Jaime killed his son. He deserves vengeance and she denied it. If Robb had just allowed Lord Karstark to kill just one of the children or even let him imprison Catelyn himself, then maybe Lord Karstark would have respected King Robb. Now because of Robb thinking with his penis, he lost almost 4000 men (The Freys) and because of his mother, 2300 men (The Karstarks).
Robb Stark should have just married the Frey girl and marched his army to the Vale and compel the Lords of the Vale to honour the memory of Ned Stark and join his cause. I bet the lords of the Vale would just ignore that crazy bitch Lysa. Honour means a lot to them. Especially if its a war to avenge Lord Jon Arryn and Lord Eddard Stark.
Letting him kill one of the children would have been just as bad. Rob wanted to kill the Karstarks because they killed two young innocent boys. Sure it cost him the war in hindsight but still wouldnt feel right to have a bunch of kidkillers in your army.
First three seasons were so smart and bookish. Newest seasons are more like blockbuster show...
bw-jack I’d say first four seasons but yeah it doesn’t feel like I’m watching game of thrones these last two seasons
@@BPBrutalPenguin Because they no longer have the books to use. Now they're showing their real writing skills, which is piss poor. There's so much to cover still and they've decided to waste the budget on a small last season filled with battles and dragons. First 4 were great, 5 and 6 were decent and entertaining but you could tell it was getting a bit worse, season 7 was trash with a few great moments, nothing more
BlackKray yup it really showed with last night’s episodes with the serious plot armour and terrible ending
First 3 seasons are the best TV I have ever seen..so good
BlackKray the only two good parts of season seven were the wall coming down and the spoils of war battle.
The greatest killer of all starks?
*Honor*
Richard Madden and Lena Heady are the two undoubtedly best actors on GOT
Everyone was great, even the kids. ‘Cause British actors are wayyyyy better.
@@dannythomas417 Peter Dinklage is American
Two of thé...there's a whole list of actors outperforming eachother, yet.. most of the cast 'outdid themselves'. Atleast, as long as the writing was good(enough) the actors added the extra level that made this show so amazing.
Charly Dance as Tywin Lannister OWNED every scene he was in. Having it written in the script like that is one thing. Portraying it in súch a masterclass is all on Charles Dance!
Jack Gleeson; people HATED him for playing Goffrey Baratheon... he was thát good!
David Bradley; Walder Fray, véry close second-most hated character in the show.
Peter Dinklage; Won an Emmy for his 'confession and demanding Trial by Combat'. nuff said.
Jerome Flynn: Ser Bronn of the f*ckin Blackwater. Unknown actor before this show... One of the most liked characters after.
Iain Glenn: Ser Jorah Mormont. underrated, played his part to perfection, ánd 'mentored' Emilia Clark! Pure class!
Liam Cunningham: Ser Davos Seaworth?... no comment needed?
Ciaran Hinds: Mance Rayder, King Beyond the Wall. Also a héavily underrated actor!
Jim Broadbent; Archmaester Ebrose. He also played Horace Slughorn in the Harry Potter movies. Excellently portrays intelligent men with a humoristic approach. Not that easy to do!
Rory McCann: Sandor 'the Hound' Clegane. Played the character if he was born to do it! Perhaps thé most underrated actor of them all?
Sean Bean: Ned Stark? Bean's an A-class actor
Mark Addy; Robert Baratheon! Even the Directors said afterwards they were regretting nót giving wáy more screentime to 'Ned and Robert', as they had an ámazing chemistry.
Michael McElhatton: Roose Bolton. Played the character só intimidatingly well, you'd actually get a little scared of him! Quiet, Calculating mastermind.
Alfie Allen: Theon Greyjoy, again, nuff said. Went through one of thé most intense character transformations in the whole show.
Julien Glover: Grandmaester Pycelle. Actually played sort of a dual-role: The old 'seemingly decrepit' Pycelle, ánd a fár more vital version! Under-acknowlegded skill?
James Cosmo: Lord Commander Jeor Mormont! Just a béast of an actor! Showed it évery bit in his role.
Owen Teale: Ser Alliser Thorne. you hated him, but you understood his bitterness.. Very impressive performance!
Stephen Dillaine: Stannis Baratheon. Was a fan-favorite!!
Diana Rigg(r.i.p): Lady Olenna Tyrell. Established actress who showed she was still thát good! In the show, she was the only one stand up to Tywin Lannister.
Jonathan Pryce: The High Sparrow. Seeing him walk around in his bést potatosack, giving his most devoted beliefs to his zealotry.. Brilliant.
Clive Russell: Brynden 'the Blackfish' Tully. The vid above shows again that he's an A-class actor
Tobias Menzies: Edmure Tully. To play such a stunted fool is a LOT harder then you think. Especailly a fool who thinks he's pretty good.
Michelle Fairly: Catelyn Stark. Amazing performance. You really saw the 'protective mother' in her. Every scene.
Katie Dickie: Lysa Arryn.... Oh man, dont get me started on how hárd that Lysa-b*tch just needed a good slap... Well played ms Dickie, well played!
Mark Lewis Jones: "Very good as Shagga, son of Dolf, not so good on the directing/editing to give him so féw scenes'. Jones is of the same level as Dance or Rigg.
Nikolai Koster-Waldau: Jaime fookin Lannister. Underwent an even greater character-transformation then Theon Greyjoy. Performed it admirably!
Gwendoline Christie; Brienne of Tarth. She played the living sh*t out of that character! Perfectly cast, perfectly acted!
Alexander Siddig: Doran Martell. Shame he had such little screentime
Pedro Pascal: Oberyn Martell. Marvellous performance! Just stunning!
Indira Varma: Ellaria Sand. Again, Marvellous, received too little screentime. and suffered from stupid writing. It certainly wasnt her fault.
Aiden Gillen; Petyr Baelish. Admirable performance. Shame how he ended. Stil lcant believe someone who was SO clever, ended in such a naieve death.
Conleth Hill: Varys. IMPECCABLE!!!
Jason Momoa: Kahl Drogo!... fk man, ,that was one scáry mo'fo!! Earned his breakthrough on the big screen through this role. Nuff said.
Harry Lloyd: Viserys Targaeryen... Man you HATED that brat, i hated him, éverydone did!!... well acted!!
Bella Ramsey: Lyanna Mormont. Stole people's hearts instantly as the savagely hard Lady of Bear Island! Beautiful performance.
Carice van Houten: Lady Melisandre. Underrated again. People still quote her 'The night is dark and full of terrors'.
Ben Crompton: 'Dolorous' Edd. The guy was as hilarious as he was serious, as he was a true and loyal friend to Jon.
Kristian Niarn: HODOR!!!... hodor hodor...hodor!...hodor hodor... hodor!
Kristofer Hivju: Tormund Giantsbane. Beast of a character. beast of an actor.
Anton Lesser: Qyburn... seriously that guy gave you the creeps!!...brr!!
Donald Sumpter: Maester Luwin. Shame he didnt get more scenes.
Pilou Asbaek: Euron Greyjoy. Writers misdid him a bit... He played his part well though. Very clever... very insane too.
James Faulkner: Randyll Tarly...You detested him for being such a horrible father to Sam. Lived and died with honor in the show. Well played mr Faulkner.
Burn Gorman: Karl Tanner(of Gin Alley?)... man was hé a first-rate c*nt in the show...excellent portrayal.
Clive Mantle: Greatjon Umber. Again, too little screentime, but man this fellow was enjoyable to watch! Well portrayed.
Prolly a few more even, but i'd have to look up the casting list.. I recall all these names from the show, because the actors were just thát good!
Its 'amazing' how the writers managed to totally 'F.U.B.A.R' the last seasons, with súch an amazing cast! So many actors that really understood their characters and stories...
For 5+ seasons it was all gréat... best show of all time... Then it deteriorated... Last season(s) were more spectacle and overwhelming CGI that overshadowed the true class that made this show so great: The terrific writing and attention to detail, and the amazing Cast that went above and beyond which gave us súch a masterclass.
DEY WAR BAWYZ!
TheRighteousFist
.
LMAO
DEY MADE MEH DO IT
This was probably the most competent Edmure was in the whole show. Really wish they’d given him more credit. Hell even in the books from what I understand he’s not super clever so it would’ve been really interesting to see a competent Edmure lead the river lords.
ah back then when the show had real consequences for every action, a well put together story, and a competent author behind the helm.
but will grrm really be able to deliver a better ending than D&D? the books have already bloated out of control, they're not tightly written anymore. will he even ever finish?
@@silversauceran He won't.
“They were *BOYS* !”
Probably one of my favourite lines one the show
Willem is Kevan Lannister's son,
And he looks identical to teenage Tommen, son of his nephew and niece.
Recasting Dean-Charles was pretty good choice.
Recasting?
@@ken-yo2hz Both characters, Willem and Tommen were played by the same actor.
I think I loved this show most when Rob was alive. Wish he lived longer.
Something thats masisvely overlooked in this whole ordeal is that the Karstarks not only murdered the squires, but also Robb's bannermen who were guarding them. This wasnt just a horrible act, it was a full on betrayal to Robb
"This one was only the watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others die."
Gangster AF.
I wish GoT had more than 5 Seasons.
It's a shame that they just left us hanging like they did after season 5, but you have to respect the way they respected GRRM's vision.
@@MesaperProductions i like it when i see men of culture in the comments
*6
@@capedcrusader16 6 war schwach, 7 auch, 8 war grottig.
@@capedcrusader16 *4
This is the moment where he chose to follow his fathers footsteps to the grave.
I love the look that Lord Karstark gives Rob when he screams the line "They were boys!" You could see fear if only for mere seconds in his eyes.
I think Kevan Lannister actually respected Robb, Kevan’s son is one of the boys that died and he had to hear about Robb executing Lord Karstark. Robb agreed to trade Kevan’s other son for a Glover they had imprisoned. Then when Joffrey announced that he was going to serve Sansa Robb’s head, Kevan was actually disgusted.
Probably one of the most badass lines in the enire show.
"I was only the Watcher!!
""This one was only the watcher, hang him last so he may watch the others die,"
"THEY WERE BOYS !!" - me, after a careless orgy in Bangkok
That right hook from one highborn to another is satisfying to watch
Blackfish aint playin with that right hand
I like that for a second after Rob screams "they were boys", Lord Karstark gets this look, almost as though that thought hadn't even occurred to him. Then he tries to justify it again. So good.
0:50 “Look at them. One of them would be Tommen later. THE KING.”
The acting quality here is off the charts... every actor nailing it, Richard madden is a hell of an actor... underrated unfortunately
Game of Thrones is the series that really taught me how morally ambiguous life and people are, much less characters on TV shows. Robb and Ned were immensely honourable but that characteristic led to both of their downfalls which begs the question, is it more honourable to be righteous or to do the right thing? Fascinating.
I always felt Ser Barristan let down Ned when the "not king" ordered Ned , the Regent, to be arrested and murdered. Ser Barristan should have acted in that moment. And for not acting in that moment but being an honorable man, he was later slapped down by the same king.
I would prefer Robb to be a live till the end instead of John Snow
alive, not a live
Same. Robb was a more interesting character, and portrayed by a far superior actor.
If he indeed wanted to serve justice to traitors and murderers in his ranks no matter how high born they were he should have killed Catelyn Stark in the first place. She released their most valuable prisoner without his consent and without any official agreement with the opposite side. Of course he could not kill his mother, that I can understand. Following the same logic he should not have killed lord Rickard as well. You don't "serve justice" only when it's convinient for you. This was one of his 2 big mistakes(other is not marrying Frey's daughter) that sealed his fate. He might have been a great warrior with good abilities of planning military operations and organizing logistics but he lacked a long term strategy thinking - this is what got himself and many other Northerners killed. He was simply not ready for such a big role in the huge war he was fighting in.
Yep, he had a boner for justice, just as he had a boner for the foreign girl. Acted on his self-interest.
If my mom undermined me like that she'd be imprisoned for life. I couldnt behead her but she'd be robbed of freedom for the rest of her days. Her irrational short sighted thinking caused endless issues. Catelyn Tully is literally a plot device. She fucks shit up to get the plot moving
And be a kinslayer? I don't think you understand how much of a taboo that is in Westeros.
@@DavidbarZeus1 Rickard Karstark was his kin
@@onlyasongoficeandfire925 Distant enough that it didn’t count. The Karstarks split from the Starks centuries before.
Love that punch. Everyone collectively agreed he'd gone too far mentioning his deceased father
I love Robb, I'm on episode 8 of the third season, and I cant wait to see what else happens with him as he is my favorite character. Go, Robb!
I don't want to be one of those people...
But I will anyway. This was so much better than these last couple seasons oml.
Robb was too much like his father for his own good. Best Character in the show though, I was absolutely gutted at his death. Wanted to see him win so badly.
Rob was a complete tool who never made a correction decision.
Its scenes like this that are missing in season 8, scenes that question morality,loyalty,duty, personality,honor,right or wrong and consequences of choices
Affan Mahdhir I also notice how they went through with the “Imbecile Edmure” idea. It’s funny because I’m the books he’s a very average and decent man. The mill incident- Robb didn’t tell him what to do and he defends his land and does good at it.
@@documentationslave397, poor Edmure had just been made a fool in nearly every scene he’s been in. Honestly the Tullys other than Catelyn and Lysa just were treated poorly in the show. The amount of screentime that was reduced for them was massive and the way Blackfish just died in season 6 was so disappointing. It’s a shame cause the casting for him was magnificent
It really didn't occur to Rob to simply make Rickard and his accomplices join the Night's Watch? That would have solved the problem. The killers receive a lifelong punishment, the Night's Watch's ranks are bolstered, and the Karstarks remain loyal because Robb chose to spare their lord. This option basically clears up every issue with no downside.
Except that the killers get to survive. It isn't justice in Robb eyes.
@@zteevydood870 Yeah it's not ideal justice, but it's at least some form of justice.
I would have gone further and married Karstark's daughter Alys to the second son of a loyal bannerman and make him Lord of Karhold.
Do you really think Karstark would have accepted the Watch? No, lords don't go to the Watch for crimes, only commoners do
@@DavidbarZeus1 Did you forget the original plan to punish Ned Stark for his "crimes" was to make him join the watch? So clearly lords can be punished for crimes in such a manner.
The thing is, Robb was right. Karstark committed treason and killed two unarmed children who had done him and his family no wrong.
But Kat and Talia were right, too. Robb should have waited. Those Lannister boys deserved justice, but the timing of it cost Robb the war and his, his wife and his mother's lives.
Karstark's crime pales in comparison to Catelyn's crime. Letting Jaime go was one of the dumbest decisions in the entire show and I'm even willing to include S8 in that, which was riddled with dumb decisions, one after the other.
The fact that she got off with that so lightly will never stop bothering me.
@@Xylarxcode lmao, killing innocent children is worse than an act which was done with the intention of saving children. Thank god we don’t live in a world built on ur shitty morals.
@@3moor21 If they were so innocent what were they doing in prison? Robb should have immediately release d both of them after he won the battle, is it justice to keep innocent boys imprisoned?
When you move with an army, you are part of the army and have to be ready for consequences *.*
@@fabmc8816 they were kept to bargain/ransom with even if they didnt do anything wrong, the lannister name alone is valuable enough to lock them up
@@droideca88 One could say the same about killing them
Everytime I see these epic scenes from the first seasons I am almost reminded of how good this show was before the dawning shadow that was season 7 and 8. I grief in pain
Can we take a moment to appreciate the fade that Black Fish gave Karstark? Hit him so hard, the First Men felt it. 🤣
OMG, cant remember a thing from early seasons! Time to rewatch :))
Karstark betray the Starks twice, when they abandon Rob, and when they join Ramsey to fight again Jon! Glad they got crushed by the Knights of the Vale
God this is my favorite scene in game of thrones. The acting is phenomenal
Uncle Blackfish with the knock out blow 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Tyson like Right hook great shot 🤣🤣🤣
This is just like Ace Rothstein in Casino when he didn't give that one dumbass a lower level job just to keep that city Counselman happy. It isn't the right thing to do, but it is the right thing to do to keep your job.
My man threw the biggest “yo momma” at his own king xD
That punch by the Blackfish is one of my favorite punches ever, for nothing more than its form and its authority. It's a work of art.
Best line delivery of the season
That jacket is bloody great
DEI WE BOIS
Even knowing I would be killed at the Red Wedding, I would loyally serve as a soldier in Robb Stark’s army.
Robb was such a beast, I miss his character so much
Book note, Lord Karstark had 3 sons, the two younger ones died, the eldest was captured at the green fork and used as a hostage.
I feel like the on'y one in the comments on Robb's side here. You can NOT tolerate one of your commanders doing such acts or you are no better that that little shit on the Iron throne.
Damn, I love this scene. I wish there'd been more Robb in the show.
Robb was for sure my favorite character.
Love how loyal the blackfish was to robb such a legend