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Robb Stark negotiates with House Frey
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2013
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The King in the North negotiates terms to make amends with House Frey. In doing so he hopes to obtain the Frey's support in the war.
"You're willing to risk our freedom and our lives for a chance at a prettier wife?" I don't know why they're mad at Edmure. That's exactly what Robb did, and it killed everyone but Edmure.
Because the show makes it out like Edmure is just an idiot and to blame for everything when it’s really all Robb and Catelyn’s fault.
@@jacobadam6804 It really does seem like they just picked a dude to shit on and kept him around so they didn't have to find another
@@WlatPziupp Neither Robb nor the Blackfish have any right to talk shit to Edmure in this situation. The whole reason they’re in the situation to begin with is because Robb broke his promise to get some foreign ass. And the Blackfish left the riverlands after refusing an arranged marriage. Then they guilt trip him for what? Fighting a battle to protect his people? When Robb didn’t explain his plan to him at all? Robb makes mistakes, yeah, but I don’t see why anybody likes Brynden Blackfish AT ALL. He’s literally just an asshole every time he’s on screen.
@@jacobadam6804 and now they are all dead but Edmure
@@santi2683 Yep. The gods saved Edmure because they knew he wasn’t a hypocritical douche
Rob demanding others to do what he refused.
+Matt Williams ikr, but at least he admitted it
yeah, definitely
jouhou
How?
+Benedikt Göpel you do realise he didn't force him to do shit right?
robb stark
??
Everyone laughs at Edmure nearly every scene he's in, including the last episode of the series.
Edmure survives everyone, rules the riverlands and has a hot wife and child.
Edmure was the.coolest guy in the room.
I suppose that's worth a few years in the dungeons.
He wasnt stupid. Hes just simple. And thats ok. But look at him now, Lord of the Riverlands with a smoking hot wife half his age
Yes, that's true. But was that because of his choices, or pure dumb luck?
@@nelsonchereta816 Is Roslyn Frey the "hot wife" you are referring to?
“You're risking our lives and our freedom for a chance at a prettier wife”, she says, sitting next to her son who risked their freedom and lives for a prettier wife. Brynden “Blackfish” Tully, called “Blackfish” for famously refusing his liege lord and brother’s marriage match, agrees. Rob also commands Lord Edmure to marry a Frey girl, because he himself refused to do so. The hypocrisy of everyone but Edmure in this scene is so stunning.
And that is why Edmure shines, by paying for Robb's error, for the sake of Robb's war. The North under Robb and Catelyn would've owed the Riverlands a monstrous debt. If I were Edmure I'd demand that the North pay the full costs of rebuilding the Riverlands after the war.
@@georgebrantley776 That reminds me of Princess Rhaelle Targaryen (The baratheons' grandmother) paying for the actions of her siblings who broke engagements to great houses.
Couldn't agree more.
@@georgebrantley776 Given that the Riverlands is second only to the Reach in fertility and population and the North is basically a barren wasteland, I cannot see them ever settling this debt.
Not to mention that the whole Stone Mill debacle that everyone hangs over Edmure's head, would never have happened if Robb actually explained his plans with Edmure instead of keeping him in the dark and being vague with his commands
Got to feel Sorry for Edmure here. Because in a way he was right to oppose this marriage.
I know! Not to mention the other three are total hypocrites here, Black fish was needed to wed on order of his brother Hoster in a similar situation to this,, to which Blackfish said no, and Catelyn accuses Edmure exactly of what Robb had done, risk losing the war for a prettier woman! At least Edmure is alive, he may get through the series yet!
I'm pretty sure in Westeros, just like IRL, a marriage has to be consummated to be considered valid. That's why there was such fuss about Sansa possibly having to sleep with Tyrion, as well as our modern day marriage ritual of locking the Bride and the Groom alone in a room on the wedding night.
No he wasn't. He fucked Robb's plan to kill the Mountain making them have to go to the Freys.
Well Robb wasn't a very good communicator of his visions and plans. All he had to say is I want to draw the Mountain out so dont attack him and Edmure wouldn't have fucked up cause he would have had the picture of what Robb wanted to accomplish.
Archangel Michael Last female of the Starks? Forget Arya
Edmure is the only person still alive in this scene.
in the books The Blackfish is still alive and Cat Tully was resurrected. So the only dead person in this scene is Robb :p
correct you are! Maybe in season 7 Cat will come back?
forget about lady stoneheart. the show wont do her
I'd do her.
Cos he's the only one making sense in scene....though Catelyn did not want Robb to Marry Talisa....she should have just stood for Edmure...
I like the Blackfish as much as the next person, but berating your nephew for refusing to do something you also refused to do, is a tad hypocritical.
+Queen of Thorns Pretty much everyone in this scene is a hypocrite. Catelyn is mad at Edmure even though she let Jaime go, which lost Robb half his army. Robb and the Blackfish are forcing Edmure to do what they didn't feel like they had to do, and used their own screwup (that they blamed on Edmure) to guilt him into it.
@@brianu2229 Robb didn't force him into anything, he accepted Edmure refusing and said he won't force him
@@kingolo97 You got to keep in mind what's really going on here. Rob as leader is meant to carry the burden of these kind of decisions, these kind of commitments. It's the sacrefice he makes to be a king. At least a true and honourable one. When Edmund is even made to HAVE to choose something like this with such large consequences it puts a boulder on his back. He can either
A: refuse and basically carry the guilt of all the far reaching political effects-longer war- as well as the inveitable political and public opinion damnation of him.
B: accept it from people who didn't make the same sacrefice or honour their own deals.
He's forced to do it by circumstance of the people leading him own DISHONOURABLE actions. If Edmund left there is no doubt that not only the personal guilt but the public opinion on him not wanting to have his personal life dictated when he didn't agree to do so-dying for your country and having it dictate your love life are two different things-- Would weigh on him.
It's not about literal force. And you can argue all the politics, definitions. My logic. Which I sure is flawed somewhere. At the end of the day.
Putting someone in this scenario is just a cunt thing to do. Especially towards an ally or companion and especially those that put themselves under your rule.
I would have put the old man in a cell for a few days, teach him to watch his sass.
anic jan well said
The fact is Robb was in the wrong. He holds his honor extremely dear, he is ready to wage war for it, to execute one of his lords for it, yet when he broke the marriage pact he was breaking his word. Of course the Red Wedding was a far more dishonorable act, but if Walder Frey had instead dissolved the alliance and then joined the Lannisters openly he would have been in the right. I liked Robb's character, but he managed to get into trouble by both being too honorable and not honorable enough.
Yes, Robb made a mistake marrying Talisa, but Walder was the one who made the first mistake by not supporting the Tully's against the Lannisters. He should have been hung for that alone.
Wesley Molt Or he could be hanged for betraying his oath to the crown. As Walder Frey points out when Catelyn originally comes to negotiate with him, he DID swear to serve her father, but he also swore to serve the king. So, whichever choice he made he could be hanged for a traitor.
His original position was to try and stay out of it. Even that can get you hanged. To be clear, I don't like Walder Frey, and agree he is a bastard. But he did have some justification for his choices. He went from being neutral to siding with Robb and House Stark for the sake of a promise. He'd sacrificed men and money and made himself an enemy of House Lannister. And then Robb breaks his agreement in a way that makes him a laughing stock.
Nelson Chereta Except for one problem: the war started when Robert was king, and Walder did nothing to support the Tully's in their DEFENSIVE war against the Lannisters. THAT is why he should be hung. In fact, if I recall correctly, he should have been hung ten years earlier for not supporting the crown against the Greyjoy Rebellion.
Nelson Chereta Yo listen. You see that chick hes with? Yeah. Discussion closed.
Wesley Molt it's different in the books.
he is married to jeyne westerling to save her honor because he took her v- card
"I have won every battle, but im losing this war". RIP Robb Stark, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North. Season 1-3
Lol! I like how you ended it, King in the North Season 1-3...
the young wolf, forever young
Anyone who gauges the storyline by “seasons” is a bastard.
1st book came out OVER A DECADE before the first season. I will give you that the first 2 seasons we’re okay... with after that it’s all garbage
La gloria en el Fútbol The King who lost The North
The Starks are motherfuckers
It's nice to see that hypocricy lies in every family.
Rob stark was no 1 in that
Robb wouldn't have needed to negotiate with the Freys at all had he actually listened to Edmure and kept Karstark as a hostage rather than chopping his head off and losing like half of his army.
couldve gotten away with breaking the frey deal for a prettier wife and still have a fighting chance
Exactly. Even before that he made crucial errors: He should have stayed in the Westerlands after Oxcross and threatened them. At that time, Renly was still alive and allied to the Tyrells so the Lannisters were all alone and even though Tywin's forces were large, they would not have been enough to divide them and successfully defend King's Landing and the Westerlands and keeping what they conquered in the Riverlands where the garrisons were threatened by guerilla tactics. Tywin was in a dire situation and Robb's decision to leave the Westerlands again made it so much easier for him.
Keeping Karstark, his own vassal hostage?
@@mrj4082Karstark men could not leave but also not attacking robb
if only Edmure knew that he was going to marry the most beautiful girl in the whole show lol
Is Margaery a joke for you?
@Bilal Khalid virgins, virgins, relax were all virgins here
It's all about the Ros
I guess Daenerys is not the only one who sleeps with their nephew/niece then
I 100000 percent agree, dany, margery, Sansa, etc don’t have shit on her. There was this one girl named dohrea or smt she was a sex slave bought by the Dothraki, she teaches dany how to be sexy, she is the second hottest.
"We're fighting for the North, Harrenhall is not in the North" Excuse me, Robb? You do realize you're talking to your most powerful vassal Lord, and I don't think he'd be too happy seeing his lands cut up and auctioned for the sake of a vow you were meant to keep.
TyranidsBJ Yeah if it wasn't for robb, edmure would have still been a Lannister captive and the riverlands would have still been under a lannister siege.
***** exactly bro. Harrenhall isn't even edmure's hold his right to contest the claim of Frey for that hold is because he's the overlord of both holds. And even then Edmure is far from his more powerful vassal... frey and bolton were both much more powerful. Rob had to save edmure from capture just a few months before this meeting with the freys
buddyjesus
The Tullys WERE the most powerfull vassal Robb had.But the Lannisters attacked the Riverlands HARD and killed a lot of the Tully bannermen when the wat first started,they burned and raided the Riverlands and the Tullys took even more losses after Edmure continued having more battles with the Lannisters.
At this point in the war the Tullys probably had like 5-7000 men and half of their land was destroyed and occupied.
SenpaiGuild I said edmure for a reason cause his father was a very powerful man but the son wasn't mostly because of the lannister invasion and because Frey's location and deal with Rob honestly made him the 2nd most powerful man in the north and riverlands.
Quik question, did Robb stark ever name anyone to be his hand of the king before his death? If he did I'm assuming it would either be bolton or umber.
buddyjesus He had no hand.He named and legitimized Jon as his heir before the Red wedding when he thought his brothers died.
An oath-breaker and self-proclaimed king, a guy who hasn't married for strategic values his entire life and a women who partially caused the war an who released the most valuable prisoner for a vague reason force an innocent Lord to marry somebody who did nothing wrong.
2 powerful prisoners. Don't forget Tyrion.
Edmure lost the Stone Mill and hundreds of men for it lol hes stupid and not innocent
daeseong that makes him a fool, not an outright hypocrite and asshole like everyone else in that room. and robb told him hold riverrun, which was both the name of the castle and the surrounding lands he governed, he took a gamble in holding the stone mill and came out on the wrong side of it. not outright stupid like the rest of his family
@@daeseongkim93 Sure, Edmure lost 208 men. Let me ask how many men Robb lost due to Catelyn's and his faults at handling the Jaime/Karstark situation? Half his army marched away that day.
@@f.c.laukhard3623 it's not just that... Loss of 208 men wasn't the problem. The problem was, Robb wanted to draw Tywin and his forces west and Edmure fucked it up by refusing Tywin to cross. If he didn't do it, they wouldn't have those boys who were killed by Karstark, which means he would still be alive. Also also because of that, Tywin was informed of the situation in Kings Landing. If he didn't attack Stannis, the city would fall for sure
"I'd give my life! I'd fight to my last breath! I'd keep going, no matter how hurt, because this is all I believe in!"
"You have to marry an ugly girl."
"Okay that's where I draw the line."
Now to be fair, he only wanted to have a choice in who he married
@@ilovemakingcatgirlscry7574 Then he shouldn't have given his word to another king that he would marry his daughter as a sign of an alliance between the two people.
@@alexandercrush you mean like Robb did?
I don't like Edmure at all, but in this particular scene I was on his side.
Who are Robb and Brynden to tell him to marry someone because they need it so desperately? They needed Robb to honor that same agreement and he's allowed to break it for a prettier wife. Brynden refused to marry whom he was told to marry and they let him walk away with it. But Edmure has to bend to their will? You're goddamn right it's not fair or right.
This is irony at its finest. Robb and Brynden are probably the two people who have the least right to ask this of him and yet they are exactly the ones that force him to. If you ask me, the fact that Edmure agrees to this wedding without too much hassle makes up for his blunder at the stone mill.
Talyssa is downgrade from edmure wife. Both women pretty though
The Stone Mill wasn't even Edmure's fault. If Robb had just explained his strategy to entrap the Mountain everything would have went fine.
LordScrambles he didn't have to. Just obey the orders
And they wouldn't be in this pickle if Robb hadn't been so damn honourable and beheaded Karstark!
Robb was pathetic. Forced his uncle to clean his shit, cause he couldn't keep his promisse.
"You are paying for my sins uncle it's not fair or right, ill remember it"
Sansa: Uncle, sit down
edit: ty Phil C
Loool :D poor Edmure.
@@bluejesus105 Poor Edmure? You mean poor writing, right?
They confuse being rude with being assertive
It's not fair *or* right.
There was something disturbing going on in D&D's head when t hey saw this character who has been tortured off screen for years and then his final appearance was played for comic relief.
It's funny that literally every person in this scene is guilty of having done at least one of the things they are accusing Edmure of doing, wheter it is refusing to marry for the wellbeing of his family (the blackfish) risk losing the war because he wants to marry a prettier woman (Robb), or risking everyone else's life because of his selfish wants (Catelyn). The Starks-Tullys really were a bunch of hypocrites.
Yeah, and they keep bringing up the Mill where Edmure lost around 200 men and let the Mountain get away. This was a mistake, yes, but it was not decisive for the war. They did not lose much and their position was still not too bad. That was not the reason they had to crawl back to Walder, the reason was that half the Army walked away with the Karstarks and that was not Edmure's fault at all. Also, Karstark when he was alive was right in pointing out that Robb's march to his grandfather's funeral was an unnecessary distraction. He was correct. Robb should have stayed in the West and threatened the Lannister homes. He already won at Oxcross and the main Armies of the Lannisters were in the East. Yes, they were threatening the Riverlands and could even potentially march to the North but that was hindered by Renly and Stannis still being present (remember, the episode Sansa gets beaten for Oxcross, even Renly is still alive so the Tyrells were even against the Lannisters at that point). Tywin would have had the difficult decision to make to either let Robb waste the Westerlands or to let the remaining Baratheons threaten King's Landing. Imagine how many lesser Lords might have decided to make peace with Robb separately to save their lands. He could have pressed money from the cities in the Westerlands to let them be kept intact which would have taken resources away from Tywin and into his own pocket. The Lannisters always bragged about their ability to pay their soldiers so threatening the income would have meant possible deserters form Tywin's troops. By coming closer to Tywin's position and King's Landing, Robb relieved him of that difficult decision. His homelands were not threatened anymore and he had shorter distances to march between potential battles against either the Baratheons/Tyrells and the Starks. So Robb was not really the greatest strategic mind at all. He was a good battlefield commander but not really a great thinker in the long run yet he belittles Edmure.
@@f.c.laukhard3623 In the books it was Tywin who Edmure pushed away, causing him to make it to King's Landing to smash Stannis at the Battle of the Blackwater. So to be fair, he fucked up way bigger in the books.
@@TD0150 You are correct, I know, but since the differences between books and series are quite substantial, we have to look at them as separate entities so we cannot judge series Edmure by what book Edmure did. And in the series, Edmure was judged unfairly by Robb.
@@TD0150 STILL he wasn't let in on Robb's plan. It's stupid to demand that people read your mind.
@@TD0150 if by fucked up, you mean he intervened to save his liege and uncle from being pinned by a numerically superior force and beat one of the most respected commanders in westeros. Edmure was told to hold the riverlands and see the enemy commander try to pass through to the westerlands. Had he been made aware of Robb's plan, I am sure he would have acted differently, .
In the books Robb and Blackfish didn't force him to marry ,in fact they actually said it would be hypocritical of them to force him.
I love how everyone bosses Edmure around, even his own nephew. He's one of the lords of the seven kingdoms and he's still everyone's bitch.
He is not so incompetent in the books. Edmure actually commanded Tully forces into beating back Tywin and his host from the Riverlands. That was not what Robb wanted, yes, but Robb failed to explain Edmure his true intentions, so we have to give it to Edmure, he actually beat Tywin.
It's only robb, catelyn and the blackfish who boss him around; and I mean if THEY can't, who the hell can? They are 3 of the most bad ass characters. I think edmure is actually quite intelligent, even in the show. He knows where blame lies, he knows who's in charge; I thik his introduction just made him look incompetent bc he couldn't hit his fathers boat w an arrow but I tgibk that was made to make blackfish seem more badass than him stupid
Nathaniel Kadetz oh come on, what kind of person gets bossed around by their own nephew?
a man whose nephew is King in the North
Chronicle And he's not a northman so he's not his king.
Poor Edmure, he didn't deserve that treatment.
funny if edmure would have insisted
maybe rob would still be alive ,.,
Nah, they had that Red Wedding all planned by that point...Edmure was actually right, they would have let him choose. Ironically, though, he would have chosen Rosalin anyway given how pretty she actually was, so the point is moot.
This is the comment I was looking for!
robb was going to die once he beheaded the karstarks
@@UCNXonline Yeah you're right. I think even if Robb had said yes and married Rosalin, they would have carried out the red wedding the same
@@rossstewart9284 I doubt it. Had Robb agreed Walder wouldve married his daughter to a royal family and gained way more power than he had. There wasnt a reason for him to betray Robb before season 3 when he was still winning the war
The fact that Robb was made king of the Riverlands was taken out of the show for some reason. If he doesn't rule the Trident its shouldn't be his place to give Harrenhal away.
If he wins the war he's essentially King of everything. He'd give what he promised and then go back North.
Robb and Brynden were being very hypocritical
Hello from 5 years in the future
And now both of them are dead and Edmure is still alive( and married to the hot Frey girl)
PS: Invest in a little known company called ZOOM , in Toilet paper companies and in antiseptic makers. Trust me , you wont regret it
Hello I am from 3 years in the future their is a asoiaf spin off series and don't go to Trump rally on 2024 and free palistine
Edmure's action at the stone mill was not 100% his fault. Robb should've told Edmure his plan to lure the mountain into a trap. I know Edmure should've followed the orders given to him, but such a crucial plan should not have been kept secret from Edmure.
It wasn’t his fault at all. Literally all that he was trying to do was protect his small folk.
Funny thing is, Edmure did follow orders-he held Riverrun, didn’t he?
But Robb expected Edmure to read his mind and let Tywin Lannister march across his lands unhindered, allowing his small folk to be slaughtered and their fields ruined (yknow, the kind of thing a lord is supposed to do everything to prevent) so Robb could somehow maybe maneuver the ultracautious Tywin Lannister into a battle on their terms
@@warlordofbritannia He didnt "held" riverrun, that would mean to sit on his ass in the castle and did nothing but to protect the castle, Edmure went way beyond his orders, he was lucky Robb didnt beheaded him like so many other kings would do, when your king commands, you obey and do not question.
@@aesir1ases64
Edmure took a proactive approach, for which he should have been commended-not beheaded
@@aesir1ases64 If you’re planning an elaborate trap and strategy you should probably let your largest and most powerful vassal in on it.
Edmure is a just and extremely competent lord, who indeed ruined the strategy but not to any fault of his own IMO. I really always thought that GRRM based him on Prince Rupert from the English Civil War. IIRC, King Charles ordered Prince Rupert (his like great nephew or something) to March north with an army to assure that the City of York does not fall to parliamentary forces. Charles gave him extremely ambiguous orders, he basically said “if York is not yet sieged you need to stay in the north and consolidate power, if York is lost you need to march back south and support my army.”
However, Charles never told him what to do in the most likely scenario: what if York is in the middle of a siege? Rupert understood the orders to mean that he must try to relieve the siege, resulting in the disastrous battle of the Marston Moors and assuring the defeat of Charles in the English Civil War.
wouldn’t you say it’s more the fault of Charles for not delivering clear and concise directions than it is Rupert’s fault for not knowing what Charles wanted him to do? Alternatively, is it really the Fault of Edmure for not realizing there’s a greater strategy at play and deciding to defend his lands and people against an enemy army?
You must understand that not only did Edmure not know the plan, virtually every Riverlord agreed to it. Not a single person Robb left behind knew of his strategy and everyone agreed that Edmure's plan was solid. That's because the only one Robb ever bothered to scheme with is the Black fish
So as far as i know when Robb left Riverrun with that '' command'' Renly was alive , Stannis had no great army and was in Dragonstone , Theon was loyal to the Starks and Tywin was chilling in Harrenhal
So there is no way in hell that Robb had that plan when he departed from Riverrun . Even when he decided that he'll stay there to lure them to the west why didn't he say anything ?
Robb has zero idea what the Tyrells would have done if Tywin did not turn around. They had agreed terms with the Crown before they met up wit Tywin and travelled hundreds of miles from Bitterbridge to the Riverlands, building rafts for the Blackwater in that time.
"A Storm of Swords - Sansa I; My son ought to take the puff fish for his sigil, if truth be told. He could put a crown on it, the way the Baratheons do their stag, mayhap that would make him happy. We should have stayed well out of all this bloody foolishness if you ask me, but once the cow's been milked there's no squirting the cream back up her udder. After Lord Puff Fish put that crown on Renly's head, we were into the pudding up to our knees, so here we are to see things through."
The Tyrells 80k army was enough to take down Stannis without Tywin. Mace had already imprisoned or killed any men loyal to Stannis at Bitterbridge. It seems going by his words and actions he was committed to the alliance that would make him father-in-law to the King
Oh and this:
"Yes, my lady. His Grace left Ser Edmure to hold Riverrun and GUARD HIS REAR."
Edmure is a scapegoat. Robb and Brynden suffer a strategic setback and need someone to blame.
To illustrate lets swap the geography for a bit. Robb is holding Winterfell against the Ironborn or Lannisters or Tyrells. Whichever attacking force doesn't matter. The North is Winterfell to a lord like him. To say to Robb he must "Hold Winterfell" that means he must protect The Wolfswood or Long Lake.
For The Riverlands is also the same. Riverrun to a lord is The Riverlands. A lord has a duty to protect his people does he not? Brynden and Robb commit a small but very important mistake in not outlining in crystal clear instructions their plan to him "Keep it to where Tywin cannot break past to reinforce Kings Landing"
"Hold Riverrun" is by comparison an instruction that is far too vague and open to interpretation. Edmure is an easy target for them to blame too. After all he's prone to drinking with his bannerman, he visits whorehouses, etc....Only that's mostly just him cultivating relationships with the men he works with. That's what a Lord has to do. But Edmure is the lowest rung in terms of respect in House Tully so its easy to make him a scapegoat.
Letting Tywin march uncontested through the riverlands is also a very very bad idea. "Holding" a castle by sitting behind its walls is terrible military strategy unless you have no other option and you have already completely destroyed all available food in the surrounding countryside. Riverrun is much safer if you prevent an army from getting anywhere near it. You can farm the surrounding areas and continue to grow food/recruit troops to supply your army.
Tywin also would've pillaged the shit out of the entire riverlands as he passed through. All of Edmure's lords would've denounced him for being a coward for not defending the riverlands and then dispersed to try and defend their own lands. The entire riverland army would've been destroyed piece by piece as each lord tried to defend their own lands (or groups of lords would've tried to fight Tywin head on in less defensible positions than the Fords). Robb's plan of letting Tywin march through the riverlands would've lost him the entire riverland army and all of the supply coming from the riverlands.
Also, letting Tywin march an army to Robb's rear is moronic. How mad would any army commander be if you left a significant force at strong defensive positions between your army and the enemy army and that defensive force just let the enemy army march on your rear, leaving you heavily outnumbered in enemy territory?
Robs plan to run around the west on his cavalry living off the west also would've failed miserably. Tywin has enough cavalry to fight Robbs cavalry with just his own cavalry if he chose to, and Robb has to fight for every scrap of food while desperately trying to find remounts for horses he loses/go lame from trying to outrun Tywin's cavalry. Tywin can call for supplies, remounts, and reinforcements literally everywhere he goes plus he knows the terrain much better. Robb would've been chased down and annihilated by Tywin's fresher horses/troops so quickly.
There is such pain in Rob's voice when he says 'I've won eve battle but I'm losing the war'. Rest in peace, King in the North 🙏
Robb as a character in the books make since because he a young lord with potential but because he is young (15-16) you can see his mistakes and why things happened. With the characters age up in the show an Robb being in his early 20s certain things like breaking a marriage contract because you found another girl you loved shouldn't happen.
After seeing this scene, it even makes the red wedding enjoyable
As funny as how everyone treated and looked at Edmure he got the longest end of the stick out of most loved characters...
1.didnt suffer much through out the series
2.has all his limbs
3.married to a beautiful wife
4.probably the most powerful person in riverrun after the war
i mean dude was in the frey dungeons for a couple years after his wife’s family slaughtered his entire family. that’s gotta suck
@@brennaleeann213 oh definitely but not as much as the people who suffered throughout the series
That sarcastic reply “when the king of the north summons us, we come,” should have been a clear indicator of what little respect the Frey’s had for Robb and the starks at this point. Should have been on guard and realized it was all a ruse.
Robb and the Blackfish guilt Edmure over the whole "mill" situation, but that was really Robb's fault, if you think about it. After Edmure takes the mill, Robb berates him because the real plan for attacking the mill was to lure The Mountain out to kill him. When Robb tells him this, it's clear that Edmure had not heard that this was the strategy. It's rather important to share your overall strategy with your military commanders, and Robb failed to do that, making Edmure his scapegoat for that failure and all the men they lost. Edmure, sadly, keeps paying for Robb's sins because he's too brow-beaten to really stand up for himself.
"The laws of my fit are about to compel your teeth", epic comment Blackfish but getting on your nephews case about forced marriage is a bit hypocritical dont you think, lets talk about how you earned your name Blackfish
Is edmure a brother of the Blackfish or a nephew of the Blackfish?
Edmure is his nephew
19EHF 'fist' The laws of his 'fist' not 'fit'.
Weird that he would really think the King would be happy with his uncle being a replacement. When Robb is king and his uncle is not. And it is quite insulting that a man would refuse to honor his word to marry the king's daughter for some random village girl.
Also love doesn't look that important when you are lying dead with your family.
Edmure was in the right. After reading the books I agree with him 100%.
The amount of Edmure support in this comment section is great. Good to see Robb and the rest's hypocrisy being recognized.
"The laws of my fist are about to compel your teeth." The Blackfish is one of my all-time favourite characters.
Robb Stark: Worst leader in the show.
- Trusted Theon Greyjoy to bring the ironborn to the Norths side. Everyone even his mother knew this was wrong. Revealing his entire force was south causing an obvious ironborn attack.
-Executed the Karstark leader losing a portion of his army.
-Trusted Roose Bolton, a house that is historically the Starks greatest Northern enemy. Not only to be his right hand man but most trusted advisor. (in the show)
-Lost an alliance with his largest ally because he got a hard dick.
-Declaring himself King in the North, when really he should have simply allied with Stannis like his father did Robert.
Can't stand the incompetent boob.
To be fair, his bannermen declared him King in the North. He just accepted the title.
Derek Flores Yeah, they did declare him. But he should have denied them.
+The1Floyd For sure. Exactly the same mistake Balon Greyjoy made. Theon may have done some stupid things but he was on point when he said that the iron islands couldn't go it alone. Those crowns ended up costing them a lot of blood and gold for really no benefit at all
I certainly wouldn't call Robb Stark incompetant. I'd call him a 16 year old boy.
Hia tactical nous was sufficient to let him run rings around even Tywin Lannister.
He trusted Theon, the boy who he grew up with, played with, hunted with, and who fought beside him. Who had sworn that he was Robb's brother in all but blood. That's not folly.
Expecting the Ironborn to join forces with anyone else was folly, but it would not have even been the most impressive of Robb's victories, so perhaps he had cause to think he could pull it off.
The Karstarks- the Northmen hold their honour closer than their gods. There was no other action Robb could take after Rickard murdered two prisoners. The Starks do as their honour and duty commands.
He trusted Roose Bolton - again, a folly only revealed in hindsight. He had been a loyal servant of house Stark for a lon time and aided Robb well in his war so far.
House Frey was hardly his biggest ally. They provided 2,000 soldiers, Robb already had around 20,000. Robb needed his men to replace the Karstark men who had left. The main thing he needed from Walder Frey was to be allowed to cross his bridge. Hardly his 'largest ally'.
And yes, he let his hormones get the best of him- of course he did, he was a 16 year old boy. Speaking as someone who was once a 16 year old boy, half of his thoughts probably came from his 'other head'. Doesn't make him a moron, it makes him human.
He didn't declare himself King in the North. He was speaking up about supporting Stannis when his bannermen declared him King. They left him little choice but to take that poisoned chalice.
He wasn't an incompetant boob, he was just human. He had flaws, made mistakes and trusted people he shouldn't. Because everyone does those things. It seems worse when powerful people make mistakes because the consequences are bigger because of their power and influence, but it is the same as you or I trusting people we shouldn't or making mistakes
+James Bennett i agree with everything.But there was 4 things that he could do.First take a loan from Bravos and buy another 20 thousand sellsword.Second ally with The Reach after Renly's death.Ally with The Arryns or with their bannaremens after Ned Stark die and he was winning all the battles.He should attack Lannisport and Casterly Rock much sonner.I mean in 2 season 3 episode he was at Oxcross this like what 100 miles from lannisport?
"The laws of my fist are about to compel your teeth!" - The Blackfish
savage old man
This scene was sad in the books, Robb was in tears when Lothar says Winterfell was burnt and everyone was killed by Theon
I love how rob is "fighting for the north" yet is basically invading the riverlands
Edmure is actually the totally most reasonable one here:
- He defeated The Mountain in battle, but Robb was PO'ed that he didn't follow a secret plan he hadn't told him about.
- Robb then chastises him for not agreeing to marry a woman to forge an alliance...despite himself breaking his oath and marrying who he wanted instead of honouring an alliance.
- The Blackfish threatens to beat Edmure up for not going through with the marriage, meanwhile his nephew Robb not only broke a marriage in the same alliance but is willing to sell the Blackfish' own lands (Harenhal) to make up for it.
- Catelyn even gets her shots in, while she actually started the war with rash action (kidnapping Tyrion) AND let their most valuable prisoner go (Jaimie).
Everyone is an idiot EXCEPT Edmure, yet we're supposed to laugh at the guy. Even when we're first introduced to him we're supposed to laugh at him for not being able to make an incredibly difficult archery shot, and then at the end of the show we're supposed to laugh at him when Sansa is like "Sit down and shut up uncle".
Poor bloke just can't catch a break.
0:46 Edmure and Brynden looking at eachother like: this dude what the hell 😂😂😂
0:38 Way to spit on the riverlords who bent the knee to you Robb.
+Derek Flores Not just the riverlords; Harrenhal is actually Edmure's. This entire scene is basically Edmure getting screwed in every single way.
"the lord of my fist are about to compell your teeth" hahahha
LAWS
Johnny Begood Blackfish is the coolest characters in the show and the biggest badass from Riverlands. I just wish he would get more screentime. :)
+O Soskic how is he badass? he never married by his own choice and here he is forcing a member of his own family to marry, by force of his fist. Am I the only own who notices how much hypocrisy there is in this situation.
Palpad100 Explaining a nobody and a loser like you why he is a badass is a complicated process, so i rather not.
O Soskic Lol, so you don't have an explanation.
Edmure got the last laugh at the end. Those three idiots died.
"hes a proud man we have wounded him" wow the gaul of robb... no robb YOU wounded him
It was a nice touch to see Lothar limping.
Why was he limping again?
@@flochforster88 he was born with a limp. Same in the book.
Jaime L he’s referred to as Lame Lothar in the books. He was the chief architect of the red wedding.
The blackfish is a god.
Pedro Dipp cod*
ajbahus Hahahaha.
ajbahus blackfish is a call of duty?
Calvin Wang Cod= A fish
He was a fucking Legend, in the Riverlands. A fucking LEGEND!
"The laws of my fist are about to compel your teeth."
Edmure just takes all the shit for the entire 8 seasons, lol.
Dammit, a small act of weakness from Robb costs him everything. Robb is my favourite character and his death was so sad and tragic.
0:58 Edmure's expression is priceless here Lol
3:15 Sadly the war was already over even as Robb was uttering the words. He just didn't know it yet
Oh, poor Edmure. The ironic thing is they might have lived if Edmure said, "no." I'm waiting for the inevitable Frey massacre by the end of Book 7. Actually, I want the story to be resolved in "The Winds of Winter." Book Seven will not be "A Dream of Spring." It will be, "A Hunt of Freys." I would buy that book.
They will not live, they will still lose the war and die.
aclock2 But, would you still want to read "A Hunt of Freys"? That is what's important.
No there won't be A dream of Spring, because by that time George will be dead. He barely makes progress on Winds of Winter, we should pray that he will finish that.
@@O.G.H.4 years later
@@DerDarkKnightand another year after that
I'm really sad we never had a chance to see a conversation between the Blackfish and Walder Frey. Would have been absolutely epic.
Judging from the thumbnail I thought this was a Robot Chicken skit 😂
Funny part is: Roslyn Frey was the cutest girl of the show
There's a few things that everyone is overlooking. First of all House Frey were vassals of House Tully. As vassals their troops should have been Robb's for the asking since he is an heir to House Tully. He also had agreed to a marriage match between one of the Freys and Arya. Furthermore he had honored all of the other conditions that he had agreed to in exchange for the Freys support.
This was civil war, the king in the north was nothing more than a rebel to the crown at this point, and the Freys were free to choose who they wanted to support since they made sacred oaths to both the crown and House Tully, they went with Robb due to his promises of making them a big part of their family. The Freys were giving it their all in the books, supporting Robb where they could, losing family members in the war, but then Robb broke their agreement, the most important part of it. For the Freys this meant their alliance was basically over, as they had no reason to believe that an honorless oathbreaker would keep his word on the marriage between Arya and the Freys, and there was not even a guarantee that Arya, who was either a captive in Kings Landing or disappeared entirely according to their knowledge, would even be alive for that marriage to happen, and that is the already big if of Robb keeping his word that time.
Also he was known as the late walder frey for a reason
" The laws of my fist are about to compel your teeth " LMAO What a legend !!!
I thought edmure was whiny the first time I watched this scene but watching it again now it makes me really pissed at Robb and the blackfish
Firstly, they both choose not to marry for political reasons, then they gang up and pressure (and even beat) edmure to do exactly that so that Robb has more soldiers for what is ultimately his war; he’s not endmure‘s king because edmure’s realm is not in the north, he’s just his ally and they’re fighting to avenge Robb’s dad and get independence for the North.
Then Robb promises away one of Edmure’s holdings to an extremely untrustworthy and unreliable person while it’s clear that Edmure doesn’t want to. And the entire time they’re giving him shit for it.
I’m still sad that Robb was murdered at the red wedding but he had a stick up his arse just like Dany does and no one really calls him out for it.
Yep, he was like the most irrational ruler in ASOIAF.
I will never understand the Frey costume design in the show. Martin outlines that they are one of the most powerful houses in the Riverlands and yet they dress like the constitutional peasants from The Holy Grail.
IT'S A TRAP!
IT'S A TRAP!
Nagrom marriage I mean.
Rob dig that trap for himself
Edmure is a liege lord and they treat him like he's one of Robb's bannerman.
He is, he swore to fight for Robb, the King in the North AND the Riverlands. Besides Robb rescued him from Jaime, who was holding him prisoner, destroyed Jaime's host and lifted Edmure's capital from a siege. Edmure then cocked up the defence of his city and Robb's plan to outflank and overwhelm him, destroying Tywin's (only) army, the Lannister's patriarch destroyed and win the war. Then he refuses to make peace with his most powerful bannerman who has the massive potential to harm Robb's army because he wants a pretty wife. All in all I think he owes Robb a bit, don't you?
Kubinda12345 Robb was King of the North and Trident (Riverlands)
“The laws of my fist are about to compel your teeth” is such a good line.
"We're fighting for the North, Harrenhall is not in the North." - King in the North AND the Trident
The fact a noble house is scared of "cuthroats and bandits" just shows how weak and pathetic they are.
And they turned his character into literal cringy comic relief in season 8.
The fucking gall and disrespect is surreal.
0:36 *Rob: We are figting for the North.*
Edmure and Blackfish: So why are we here?
This was an insane inclusion and I question how the writers could have come up with it. The Riverlords have already sworn fealty to Robb as their King. He's fighting for their independence also.
seriously good job for the casts of this show these Frey brothers really did their job well and you can feel you cant trust them
really? I can feel that they're suspicious, especially the first line, the sarcasm was palpable
I thought Blackfish was a clever person and knew Walder Frey better than anyone.
He was just blindly nodding to Robb ideas.
3:15-3:19 best quote from Robb Stark in my opinion....
Robb was completely and utterly in the wrong here to force his uncle into that marriage after refusing to honor his own vows.
2:31 “The laws of my fist are about to compel your teeth” Gotta love the Blackfish
Walder the Black is just perfectly portrayed.
The laws of my fist are going to compel your teeth 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Robb fucks it up and Edmund has to pay for it. How noble...
Rob and Catelyn being total hypocrites here. Totally deserved the red wedding
Ser Brynden was also being hypocritical
That's a bit harsh.
"we fight for the north those lands are not in the north" even though the riverlands are now in your domain......the might be the dumbest line in all of the series!!
That last line tells that Robb was indeed aware that he was the one that broke the oath and that he is sorry for Edmure and that it was unfair to ask that of him . But he of all man needed to honour that oath because he was the King and King's should make examples. He was my favourite character but he lacked Ned's honour.
“Do as I say, not as I do” - Robb
God I loved Robb and all but a he was a right hypocrite.
Robb and his northern honor. It got his father beheaded. Should have taken Talisa as a battle bride and married Lord Frey's daughter. Not that it would've helped in the end. Somehow Tywin Lannister, the vast gold of Casterly Rock and all the soldiers and lesser lords he could buy with that gold would've won the war for Joffrey.
Honor is the Vales thing. The Starks got it from Jon Arryn.
George said that if Robb was losing, Walder would have tried to break away from Robb, but the Red Wedding was a direct result of Robb's betrayal.
"The roads are crawling with cutthroats"
Yeah... and so are the halls of the Twins.
Robb Earlier: Didn't Marry Walder Frey's daughter( Which gave him high chances of winning the War)
Robb now: Asks his Uncle to Marry Walder Frey's daughter (didn't care about his feelings) he just wanted to win the War
What kind of Justice is this?
I know he asked him not to Marry if he did not want to but Edmure was emotionally forced to marry
This lead to his downfall
It was edmure's fault. Who asked him to capture the mill and chasing away the lannisters.
@@varunkaushik2732 that plan was only to kill Mountain, wouldn't have made any difference to Tywin, Red Wedding would still happen
Three of the Starks biggest allies in the war of the five kings are;
Edmure Tully- Warden of Riverlands
Walder Frey- Who supplies 4,000 troops to the Northern army (more than any other house)
Richard Karstark- Allies of Old
Each one of them Robb manages to piss off
I don’t get why the Red Wedding shocked people. The first request was for Robb to be the one to marry one of Frey’s daughters, and he refused it. Did people just think Frey wasn’t going to be cross?
It was more than likely in the back of their heads, but they never thought the story would really go through with it.
Should have listened to Edmure
"The Lords of my fists are about to compel your teeth" LMAO
My favorite line will always be 'You recall that heroic engagement?"
if Robb was a good King and leader, he would have told his commanders what he really wants
"We are fighting for the North. Harrenhal is not in the North."
But it is in the Riverlands. And isn't Robb King of the Trident as well as King in the North?
Yes. But they kinda Cut that Off in the Show.
Man.. if they only listened to Edmure on this one..
And this scene is why Robb Stark was remembered with hatred and resentment by the Northerners.
if Edmure said no, they would have all lived
Rob and the blackfish telling Edmure to do what noone could make them themselves do.
Robb's a hypocrite. He was doing so well until he let Theon go and married a commoner rather than Roslin.
Walder and Roose would’ve betrayed Rob sooner or later but Rob gave them the chance earlier. He should’ve forced Edmure to marry one the Frey’s daughter as soon as he crossed the bridge, that’s was the only way to ensure Walder would’ve stayed loyal.
Edmure is not very likeable character but there is a reason for it - he was probably mocked all his life and nobody was taking him seriously.
Every Frey looks like a bag lady
+miklas1911 i like that they didnt make them all handsome like lots of people in thsi show who werent supposed to be cute...in the book the freys were supposed to look "weasly" so....it wouldve ruined ther effect if they were good-looking inthe show
Roslins pretty tho
It's that damn Frey cap
Robb telling Edmure to do something he should of done himself
The freys were cast perfectly
Robb's got some nerve demanding that Edmure do what he himself swore to do.
I hate when people judge other people based on their mistakes so in case people still don't get the characterization behind Robb stark its best explained by a James bernett in the comment section, and sums up exactly what i feel about the character. It goes like this
"i certainly wouldn't call Robb Stark incompetant. I'd call him a 16 year old boy.
Hia tactical nous was sufficient to let him run rings around even Tywin Lannister.
He trusted Theon, the boy who he grew up with, played with, hunted with, and who fought beside him. Who had sworn that he was Robb's brother in all but blood. That's not folly.
Expecting the Ironborn to join forces with anyone else was folly, but it would not have even been the most impressive of Robb's victories, so perhaps he had cause to think he could pull it off.
The Karstarks- the Northmen hold their honour closer than their gods. There was no other action Robb could take after Rickard murdered two prisoners. The Starks do as their honour and duty commands.
He trusted Roose Bolton - again, a folly only revealed in hindsight. He had been a loyal servant of house Stark for a lon time and aided Robb well in his war so far.
House Frey was hardly his biggest ally. They provided 2,000 soldiers, Robb already had around 20,000. Robb needed his men to replace the Karstark men who had left. The main thing he needed from Walder Frey was to be allowed to cross his bridge. Hardly his 'largest ally'.
And yes, he let his hormones get the best of him- of course he did, he was a 16 year old boy. Speaking as someone who was once a 16 year old boy, half of his thoughts probably came from his 'other head'. Doesn't make him a moron, it makes him human.
He didn't declare himself King in the North. He was speaking up about supporting Stannis when his bannermen declared him King. They left him little choice but to take that poisoned chalice.
He wasn't an incompetant boob, he was just human. He had flaws, made mistakes and trusted people he shouldn't. Because everyone does those things. It seems worse when powerful people make mistakes because the consequences are bigger because of their power and influence, but it is the same as you or I trusting people we shouldn't or making mistakes"
a liege that doesnt bow sometimes to the demand of others wont be liege for long. Hasn't game of thrones taught you anything.
sorry man, his choices cost him Winterfell, and thousands of his men, I don't think that's a light mistake. Breaking an oath and expecting to make a amends to a sly like the Freys, beheading the Kastark Lord, when you know his men would walk out on you, and believing Theon who never saw his father since he was young could convince him to join the Northerners cause...Yes he (Rob) is a damn fool.