George Lynch Fires Back at Don Dokken, "He's a pathological liar"
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- Опубликовано: 1 фев 2024
- A full in bloom News Brief - Legendary guitarist George Lynch responds to Don Dokken's songwriting claims on Tooth and Nail/Under Lock and Key.
full in bloom Interview w/ Don Dokken:
• Don Dokken on Money Is...
80's Glam Metalcast Interview w/ George Lynch:
• 80’s Glam Metalcast - ...
Guitar International Interview w/ George Lynch:
guitarinternational.com/2011/...
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Intro & Outro by FOOL OF FATE
#dokken #georgelynch #dondokken #foreigner #jeffpilson #mickbrown 
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In the end, without each other they never achieved the same level of success, proof they did work together on this music.
To a certain degree maybe, but at the time when you sign a band you could pretty well swap members for other notable musicians in the area and still retain your status - pretty much every band faced a major personnel change every few years if not every year - metallica, megadeth, ozzy, sabbath, etc
Bingo!!!!
But success isn't always so straightforward. Many good musicians don't achieve massive success no matter how good they are.
True. Don tries to say the "Don Dokken" album he released right after the split was rightfully another Dokken album, but it (to me) lacked the edge Lynch provided to the group. Had some good stuff, but it was too soft for my taste. Reminded me of the album Fleetwood Mac put out, after they kicked Lindsey Buckingham out of the group in the late 80s.
@@jeff-ds2pr I'm not sure, but Dokken members had some legal issues going on too. Maybe that "momentum" got delayed, time went on. I think that Don Dokken album could have more power, especially vocals.
This is sad. These guys are 65+yo. Literally geezers. Y'all made great music. Lynch is still playing great. Let. It. Go.
40+ YEARS of this BS! Looks like Mick did the smart thing. Said "Hey, I'm hurt! I'm cashing OUT and calling it a day!"
Who needs to let it go? This guy asked for interviews and HE asked THEM about it. Who's going to ask about YOU and what YOU did in your life when YOU are a " Geezer"???
I'm a "Geezer", but it still takes two guys in their 20s to cover the electrical work I do in a day. I show up on time, well prepared, knock it out, clean up the site. No phone zombie nonsense, no drama, no "breaks"....
@@user-uw8bm1jv8k what does that have to do with making music? Are you wiring up people's rigs? Dokken? Lynch & Don?
@@JimmyGallowayGuitar Not anymore, was a stage electrician for huge rock tours in the '80s, wired up recording studios in the '90s. Construction/renovation electrician/geezer today. :)
YA KNOW WHATS REALLY SAD ??? THE MORE THEY ARGUE ABOUT SHHH ... THE MORE IT JUST RUINS IT FOR EVERYONE !!!
Team George on this one
I was there...DON FOR THE WIN
The beautiful thing about music is the way it brings people together.
Yeah, but it gets ugly when politics take center stage.
@@k.lindsey3529 apparently u didn't pick up on the sarcasm.
But I feel like when you’re in a band and you go to the studio and you play drums on songs you need to be given credit. you have to ask for it upfront before you just show up and play the tune. It’s one thing to have hired gun show up or to be a solo artist but obviously Don Dokken wasn’t a solo artist the band was popular because of George Lynch and all the others. Even that doesn’t make George or don the sole writer 100% but guys ….just split it up four ways and this conversation is over. Plus it’s real motivation when band members are getting paychecks they feel like part of the band even though they’re not singing. Then they actually work harder to get new good songs on the table or perfecting the ideas of somebody else is Riff.
Sebastian Bach VS Skid Row...
@user-ty2xv6xw8j very true. They have a beautiful relationship. Music cemented a lifelong bond between them that nothing can break.
Those two have fought longer than the Imperium and the Chaos Marines.
Good one!😆
Same as RATT and a lot of the 80's bands , I don't get it. Must be a stupid ego thing...
@@mikeg6666 MONEY
It's like Waters VS. Gilmour, Just far less important.
These guys literally fight more than we used to in fuckin middle school and we were 13 then. Just ridiculous.
IKR! I'm done with these guys. Don finally has the band he wants and George has his projects. THE END! Christ almighty!
Just when I thought they squashed it!? 😢
Love Dokken~ with George!
Grow up-
Too right, this sh*t is bananas.
It's always been about money. Money, money, money, money, money........
It would be interesting to hear Jeff Pilson's take on things . Since he seems to be the most levelheaded of the four .
That’s probably why he will stay out of it.
currently reading Tom Werman's book...he said Jeff was always the peacemaker in Dokken, and even during the movie Rock Star, apparently Jason Bonham and Zakk Wylde had some issues
Jeff says Don is full of shit! He is a bitter old man still talking smack after all these years.
Jeff showed his true feelings a bit recently and dug into Don for his vocal issues being tied to smoking and drinking. Don will blame everything else but hasn’t mentioned cigarettes since he last “quit” like 10 years ago.
@@noaveragejoe I just watched a RUclips interview with Don and he was smoking throughout, his voice is completely gone
I think Knots Landing would’ve made a great song title.
Indeed.
Or Automan. Sounds cool
Dallas! 😂😂😂😂
Nanu nanu.....
Murder she wrote....
McGyver (or McGruber!)
A very Yogi Christmas...
Shall I keep going, or do you know I'm a 51 year old fart already? Lol
Knots Landing! Yes! My 80's favorite show....perfect.
@@user-ty2xv6xw8j I was pretty partial to Simon and Simon LOL
@@williamdistasio9358 Forgot about it!! You mean you weren't in lust with Abby?? Lol
George Lynch has a signature to his sound. He uses diminished and augmented chords as frequently as Zakk Wylde uses pinch harmonics. Don is asking us to believe that this is actually his sound and that George just played what he was told to.
I was in a band n the 80’s. Song writing credit is weird. You would think if you wrote a part like the drums or bass for example, you would get a cut. Nope. That’s why there are so many arguments.
If someone like Springsteen or Taylor Swift comes in with a song written on piano or acoustic and the band and producers turn it into a full production song, Springsteen and Swift still retain credit.
That's true because melody and lyrics can be copyrighted. Drum grooves and chords can't.
@@steveeckert8396Yea I get that. But Don is also a guitar player. And he's trying to make it sound like he wrote everything and that those guys did nothing when he makes comments like "I wrote the whole record while they were at the drug dealers getting high".
I'm a musician too and I know that you can take someone's lyrics and make them work within lots of different chord progressions or styles. In fact one of my favorite recordings from back in my early days is of me taking lyrics that our drummer wrote and making them fit with some guitar parts that I wrote. The two parts were written completely independent of each other yet it sounds like a complete song. What I'm saying is that without George Lynch's guitar work those songs would not have had that signature Dokken sound.
@@steveeckert8396
It’s whomever comes-up with the melody, lyrics and chords. Everything else is “arrangement” (is it funk, country, rock, disco, acoustic, etc.) and that doesn’t count as writing. Sometimes the band gets a performance share on the recording but, again, not an authorship credit.
@@HeavyInstinct
What you are describing looks like song writing: his lyrics, your music.
What Don implies is that wrote the song (lyrics, melodies and chords - like strummed on an acoustic guitar) and the others just played that in their own sauce: George added the diminished/augmented bits, Jeff harmonies, etc. In other words they arranged his songs in a Heavy Metal “Dokken” fashion. Yet, he was forced to surrender money to them.
It probably happened, the question is how often. George says rarely, Don says most of the time.
That said, money is what ruined that band, and continues to ruin it. Don wanted all the money in 1988, he still does, and he is still mad about it.
.gonna have to side with george on this. Don's had decades to write his own solo material i havent heard anything noteworthy from him. the lynch mob stuff on the other hand is outstanding
Up from the Ashes blitzes most of Lynch Mob's catalog. And I don't even care for either musician to be honest.
AND SOLD WHAT COMPARED TO DOKKEN ASSHOLE?
Mick Brown wrote 99% of everything. On blow!
That's hilarious;)
Hahahahahahahhah that's great...my kinda sense of humor 🤣 😊
Mick was a great singer.
True. "Mick wrote "Burning Like A Flame" referring to the bag of coke that went through his nose and burned like hell.
Oh I've partied with Mick on many occasions!!!! That's all I'm saying😉
I think Don wrote a lot of the first album. But Jeff and George wrote a lot of the Dokken hits. We all know George wrote wicked sensation and that sounds like it could have been a Dokken tune.
I'm sure according to Don, he wrote that too and Beat it, Jump and Stairway to heaven🙄🙄🙄🙄
best songs on the first album were either the ones Don bought from George before George joined or the ones George helped write.
All you have to do is look at the work that George Lynch puts out every year. Records 3 or 4 albums a year with different projects. Also does guest recordings for several people. Then on top of that he does clinics and builds his own guitars for his guitar company. The dude is more productive than 10 people. On top of that he deserves a spot at being one of the best guitarists ever. Don use to have an amazing voice but unfortunately he is done. They put out some amazing work in the past. But to be honest there would be no Dokken without George.
agree with everything except there would be no Dokken without Don's Voice. While George's writing, sound and solos are signature to him there would not be any other singer that would fill in and sound like Don in his prime. The vocals were huge in Dokken to their sound. You can't say that Up from the Ashes didn't sound like Dokken because Billy White and Norum ripped on that album and those songs are very classic Dokken sounding. Some argue the best sounding I tend to agree.
@@chrisdestefano8315 Obviously Don is the voice of Dokken. My point is that in several failed attempts it just wasn’t quite happening. The magic dust didn’t get sprinkled until George waved his wand(guitar) over it. But who really knows. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it. Don did play with some great players before George came in the game. But I believe it was George’s playing that pushed it. Btw I hope this response does not come through as being confrontational. But it is my view and opinion.
@@guitarlife6190 not confrontational at all and I agree that George's playing and contributions took things to the next level I think Dokken needed both of them for that magic they had at their peak . My point was I still think that maigc was there after George with Up from the Ashes. some may not agree. I thought it was easier to replace the guitarist than that voice...There were probably 100 Lynch wannabee sounding guys back then who could at least sound like him to a certain extent i can't say that about Dokken's distinct voice. I thought Billy White and Norum showed that and did a fantastic job replacing George for that album....anyway all good.
@@chrisdestefano8315 Totally agree with you! "Up from the Ashes" sounded just like Dokken! The first time I played it, my Mom even asked, "Who needs George when these guitarists sound just as great?" We both agreed that Norum and White were even better because they didn't try to drown out Don and take over the songs with the guitar work. Don's voice is one of a kind. Anyone can scream into a microphone, but Don has a distinctive voice. People are on here saying that George can still play so well, and Don's voice is gone, but they need to remember that George's guitars are making the sounds; voices get worn out with age and use, and Don has been through a lot with his health issues.
They're all shit
Dokken doesn’t really make any money from royalties. The band’s streaming numbers are really low, which is why members are fighting for every crum left.
This seems to be a common trend now, older bandmates bickering and arguing with each other.
I think we all know the truth lies somewhere in the middle
Saw them live when they were at the height of the hate…..
The fricking scorched us!
What Don is talking about is what went down with Blizzard of Ozz, Dio, Whitesnake, Megadeth, or Bon Jovi. Where one person owns the record deal and the others are employees rather than partners. It made most of these bands very unstable and inconsistent. The main man got very rich though.
Don had the record deal but formed a partnership with the others. It makes everybody far more committed and the band more stable, because the money is more widely shared … or at least until the members realize they were deceived (😉 Dio, Ozzy, etc.).
This is a no-brainer, in my opinion; it’s easy to tell that George is telling the truth. To this day, George still has the most intense work ethic in rock… I’m buddies with Chris Moore, one of his drummers from a past project, and Chris was telling me how he gets up every morning and is nonstop with his music. It’s crazy.
I've known Chris since high school. Great drummer.
@@khollandtalks oh wow, that’s great! We started talking back in 2012, after I had heard him on the last Cry Wolf album.
I mean to be fair, Don cant really sing anymore. Its easier to keep playing the guitar. Usually the fingers last longer than the vocal chords do for people.
You are confirming that Don spoke the truth. George can do solos non stop but not make them coherent enough for a great song - which his projects don't have.
@@ColtraneTaylor gotcha 😏
Don likes to say he defends Mick Mars, yet he never defended George Lynch or any of the other members he kicked out. It's pretty obvious every time he opens his mouth that crap is coming out.
Dokken was my favorite "hair band" when I was a kid. Tooth and Nail still frequents my CD player! Hate to hear of my favorites fighting.
They were always fighting! Don had 50%. The other 3 had to split the other 50. $$$
Don't know what George Lynch was thinking when he had that Kajagoogoo hair do!!!😂😂😂😂
The youngins do not know that funny reference.
@@rick3747 I know huh???!!😅
Is he related to mr magoogoo? 🤣
@@anthonylove821 quite possibly!!😅 actually that was a band back in the old days!
It actually looked pretty cool on Georgie. Everyone goes through phases. I'd give him a pass on this.
I know George from back in the Xciter days and I’ve met Don. George’s account is spot on. Don’s personality is like a used car salesman/con artist. George would hang back, more quiet and soft spoken etc….
What you're saying maybe true but I would never call George quiet and soft-spoken. He can be a major penus too.
@@Netmover I agree. He's passive-aggressive.
@@Netmover they clashed from day one. I understand why George and Mick did it (Xciter wasn’t going anywhere fast and Dokken was in need of a better band) Being a guitar player I understand that George wanted the songs to be more about heavy groove and riff oriented whereas Don wanted more ‘big hair’ pop vocal hook driven tunes. This goes to the core of ‘what was the band established to be’ in the first place- which was never established because the feud between George and Don to co-exist was never solved. Still isn’t ….
@@Netmover A muscular penus.
@@Netmover he does the work though, gets it done. We can't same the same for Don.
I believe George 10000 percent
Between Lynch and Dokken “throwing down”… I’d put my money on George. Don looks kinda wimpy.
When asked “who got the better” he responded “not gonna answer that”…basically an admission he got his butt kicked.
Roids will do that... of course he's probably going to stroke out if he gets too animated, what with the arteriosclerosis from decades of juicing.
Actually? Don Dokken is supposed to be (by HIS admission) a certified black belt. I don't remember what level but....
Yeah. Roids & weights. & Coke😅
You know George knocked him out once. Atleast. 😅
I hear alot of Dokken in the Lynch Mob material. So I have to side with George on this one.
...agreed, with way better lyrics in George’s bands.
Lynch Mob is very Blues based. Doesn't sound like Dokken at all.
@@Assimilator702”blues based” is such an inadequate term to describe Lynch Mob’s music. Now it would be fitting to describe a band like Badlands, but not Lynch Mob.
@@Assimilator702wrong
@@Assimilator702 I'd have to disagree.
Three sides to every story. Let's get Pilson dammit 😂
It's sad that this is all these guys have anymore. Just feud after backstabbing feud. All the old school metal guys, not just Dokken. Again, it's sad really.
It could be just to fuel interest and generate a few more royalties. I listen to all the Dokken interviews because I like the band, music, and he has an interesting history.
@@wakethebarbarian4577 I agree in that a lot of the stories are great and interesting. And I like the band Dokken. But am really tired of the drama.
Nothing sad about it. Lynch is still out there rocking and Don? Well uhhh...I mean he's out there doing...something I guess?
@@Ziegfried82 I get it, I'm using some hyperbole here though. It's just, dang those guys complain constantly about petty stuff all the time. It gets irritating after a while.
It's safe to say a final reunion tour is absolutely never happening. Too bad.
Is there ANYONE ELSE, who would like/LOVE to hear THOSE early "Lynch demo tracks" of Tooth n Nail, When Heaven Comes Down etc..???? With George doin Devil vocals?...😏 PRE Death Metal MUSIC even, possibly MAYBE?😮 🤔 Haha lol. 😏 ....And the Dokken Drama (Lynch and "The Don", himself 🙄) JUST, goes on and on.... DON'T care what some MAY think about Lynch "negatives aside", but I have found MOST ALL his recollections HAVE STAYED consistent throughout ALL of the ongoing DECADES, and Don Dokken?..... WILL ALWAYS BE, Don Dokken....😒. 😎🤘🔥🤘
Melody and lyrics are the only thing that can be copyrighted. Writting/ Adding drum beats, chord parts isn't songwriting. They're important to the production and creation of the song but not in the legal sense. Ask any session musician whos created memorable parts in a song. They are paid for the session at an agreed upon rate.
I'm take George side. Don seems like he's gone nutty.
Back in the day, I used to try to get my hands on as much George Lynch/Dokken stuff as I could (bootleg cassette & VHS tapes or CDs)... and I'm sure that most of it is probably easy to find these days, but is was fairly obvious to tell that Geoge & Jeff wrote a lot of the songs, as there were plenty of demos of songs with Jeff singing, which later made it on the albums. I'm sure that all four of them had varying degrees of input, but for Don to claim that he wrote like 80% is not believable.
Actually, I remember reading a trhead on a message board around 20 years ago, when Don had been accused of stealing songs. I don't remember all the fine details, but it went something like this... For whatever reason... either asking for help, or he'd offered to help... some unsigned band sent Don a demo tape/CD with their songs on it. The help never happened, and instead... a song or two got tweeked & ended up on a Don Dokken solo record. The songs hadn't been copyrighted, so there wasn't much they could do. Anyway, not sure if it was true or not, but I remember there was enought details in the thread to make the story believable. Knowing many of the stories I've heard about Don over the years, it certainly seems possible.
Don's stories often don't seem to make sense. His voice is shot, but totally denies it has anythung to do with his life-long chain-smoking. lol ...but he claims it's just due to old age. I know he's had a lot of health problems in recent years, so I'm sure that might have possibly had something to do with it as well.
These two just need to never talk again. Period. No deathbed reconciliations. No getting together for lunch. No “Hey! How are your kids?” Nothing. Dead air.
Look at all the great albums by Lynch. He formed a dozen new bands and put out great music afterwards. Don had one decent song outside of the "original" Dokken band. Results speak for themselves.
Exactly. Don became a washed up bum while Lynch kept rollin.
I mean if anyone listens to the First Dokken Album , Don has ALOT more influence on that sound since it went nowhere .But the rest of the more Successful 80s Dokken Discography ? Clearly Lynch and Pilson were all over that material the most when it comes to Riffs , Solos , Melodies , and Instrumentals . Don was just an Above average Guitarist so he probably had no real input on the Riffs or Melodies of any of those 80s Dokken Albums . That was all Lynch and Pilson . But the 94 Dysfunction Album clearly Don did most of that Album adding a Cover Song . That Album had no real Lynch sounding songs on it since Lynch came into that Album at the end of it's production .
Seems to me everything that is quoted speaking for Jorge I've heard a video of Lynch speaking it but I cannot find it does anybody know?
I’d love to know how well-off financially second tier hair bands like Dokken and WASP are these days. Don and Blackie make it seem like they are very well to do in interviews. They sold some records and did a lot of touring, but their expenses and overhead were astronomical back in their heyday. I know guys who wrote and recorded platinum records and they have to work regular jobs.
It all depends on what kind of contract you end up with. That’s why it’s good to hire lawyers before signing even though it’s expensive. Usually a good management will take care, that you won’t end up being robbed. Dokken had a good management. ✌️
Wasp had a huge signing bonus and blackie was fairly smarter than your typical rocker. Don also. They were sort of veterans. Both groups sold millions worldwide so let's say they got $1.00 for each album sold (actually not far off of an actual good deal) plus Don and Blackie have publishing and royalties. So all of them should be well off. I'd bet they make anywhere from $30k to $130k a year in royalties. If they haven't sold publishing. They make 6 figures for touring. I bet Don pulls half a mill on the road. Blackie too. Like with athletes or movie stars the difference is in what they did with the money. Don and Blackie both bought real estate and invested money. Made shrewd deals after the fact. They get commercial deals and license their image or songs they get paid well for that. I think the record or some shit is AC/DC charges $500k to use Thunderstruck in a movie. Crazy but these guys did well and more of them should be richer than they are but it wasn't any reason than their own behavior mostly or ignorance to sign bad deals
@@arrowheadtelecom6561 My little brother just saw them a few months ago. Lynch's band opened for Dokken. There were only a couple hundred max in the audience. I doubt they made hardly enough for expenses, let alone 100K. He sent me pictures and video clips. Anyway, they probably have to schedule multiple near by gigs to make it worth the trip. As royalties go, how many people you know under 50 even know who Dokken is? Personally, if I want to listen to a dokken tune, I play one of my old CDs from the 80s. Doubt that many stream them on line.
I read an article a while ago where Dokken had to borrow 10K from a groupie to finance an album. He gives her credit on the cover. I think it was Lightning Strikes Again.
@@arrowheadtelecom6561 Dokken had to pay Q-prime and other business entities a shitload of money. If you take what they make on the road, plus the 20 cents per record sale then subtract taxes the divide in half, you would probably have a close number to what was made. Side note: Those record sales were bloated by the record company, so instead of 1 million sold, in reality, it was probably closer to $600K. Id like to know what they live off of in present day.
Dokken is the most f’ed up band I’ve ever heard of. First lynch mop album is the best thing ever recorded from the Dokken bunch. Don is a marginal talent.
When was the George interview?
Best rock interviewer today
Love to get Jeff Pillson's side of the story. George and Don have been at it for decades, nothing will ever change. Still they did put out a lot of great music together
I believe that George came up with I My Dreams- And The Solos
Don is obviously has misinformed in his own mind about how history went down. You can even see it on the Dokken documentary "Unchain the night". George and Jeff are writing music and lyrics for new songs while on tour in the hotel room. Don is asleep and Mick is out partying.
I think before a band records a album, there should be a set in stone agreement before hand about writing and royalty credits. Ideally each band member would get to pen at least one song..however not everyone is that talented and the band members need to be on board for whatever credits they get on the album ahead of time before all the hard work of touring and recording starts. That...or you can just decide, we all get equal shares of the writing to make it simple.
Where there goes my secret of how I came up with my song titles like 'The Dukes of Hazard' and "The Love Boat'.
I side with lynch here! Don comes across as a know it all but dosent provide much!
I think its pretty evident that the Dokken Melodies and sound was Don Dokken. All you have to do is listen to his solo Album Ashes to realize that.
No one went to Dokken shows for Dons vocals or his lyrics.
@jackheath7093 Absolutely not true. He wrote killer lyrics and vocal lines. If what you're saying is true then lynch mob should have been huge . It wasn't. It was the totality of Dokken that was the magic .
The Dokken/Lynch rivalry is comparable to the bad blood between John Sykes and David Coverdale.
Not really. David doesn't say much about John and when he does its mostly positive. John has been M.I.A for years so he doesn't talk to the press about anything
@@newavatar2947Also, John and David were never 2nd rate, so they aren't comparable.
Coyote and The Road Runner.
Dokken plural or Dokken singular?
I don't think we will ever get a full answer to this mystery.
People are crediting George Lynch for early Dokken songs when George was not even a formal member of the band.
Interesting. I had a conversation with wild Mick Brown several years ago about this, and he told me the songwriting was all Don.. I'll never forget adding, "Is there a happy song about love from Dokken?" He had to think about that lol.. Great songs with overwhelming sadness and pain in most of the lyrics.. This is just an observation I've always had..
It's amazing how the greatest music can cause so much animosity. Everything comes with a price I guess..
Holy Spinal Tap Batman.
Gotta get me some TV guides and capitalize on their lyrics too. People will praise the artistry to the heavens.
🤠 Glamfight!!! Smeared makeup, studded belt whippings, and hair extensions strewn everywhere.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The truth likely lies somewhere in between… 🙄
Any guitarist/musician who also knows anything about Lynch's style, phrasing, etc. knows that George is telling the truth here. It's very simple.
If you listen to the writing styles, it seems like George and Jeff wrote a lot of the more uptempo and heavier stuff while Don wrote more of the midtempo and the ballads.
As the Dorken World turns
It's obvious that Don Dokken created the Dokken formula. Listen to Up the Ashes vs Wicked Sensation. Love WS but it sounds like a different band, especially the lyrics!
Agreed. Up From the Ashes is killer. Sounds way more like Dokken, and not just because it’s the same guy singing. The music sounds more Dokken than Lynch Mob sounded like Dokken. I dig Lynch Mob, especially that first record, but Up From the Ashes is criminally underrated. I think it’s the best thing Don ever did. Overall.
Could that be because he's writing with different people? lol
@@orvil9223 no it's just that George can't write like Don.
@@Balmung5150 Rubbish, why the f#ck would he want to sound like the band he just left ? You're not a musician, I can tell....
@@Balmung5150 Jake E Lee NEVER sounded like he did with Ozzy.... I could list dozens more....
Dokken was nothing without George and Jeff...!
Typical lead singer bullshit.
I did this! I did that!
Look who's still going strong , not Dokken 😊
imagine george lynch knowing a word like'putz' but that's what don is.
Dokken is the name of the band, Don. Everybody knows that means that all members of the band contributed. George shouldn't have wasted his time on a response. Still love watching George play The Hunter.
Don Dokken is just a sore loser. Anyways George has a badass singer in his band now. Hopefully they continue playing for a long time. I doubt he will retire
I've always had great respect for George. My impression of Don Dokken was always that he had way too high of an opinion of himself.
The music is obviously Lynch. He wrote some lyrics and contributed but Jeff and George wrote the music.
Killer music either way
It's only March, but I'm gonna call it now, won't be doing Thanksgiving together.
It’s funny…when George claims the song titles were taken from movies in the T.V guide. Aside from Without Warning, I can’t seem to find any record of a lot of those movies on IMDB. Hmm 🤔
I edited my previous comment since I was incorrect, but in looking at the track listing for Tooth and Nail and searching IMDB, I'm not really finding any shows/movies with the titles from that album. Without Warning and Just Got Lucky but that's about it, unless I'm missing them....
This is so sad. These guys are in the twilight of their careers and all this bickering and name calling is ridiculous. I suspect the actual truth lies somewhere in the middle.
It is such a shame that these guys could not get along. Just as they were hitting their peak after BFTA they broke up. I can only imagine what a follow up to BFTA would have been like if they had all gotten along. The album could have been brilliant.
When I first saw the song credits, I clearly understood it as all songs written by Dokken ( the whole band). Because it didn't say DON!
Not the TV guide…
The crazy thing is up until recently, George has been playing a couple of songs at the end of the Dokken set on tour. Why the heck is Don dragging up all this crap? Just age gracefully.
Before this goes too far, I gotta point out this Iif you listen to the clips... both Don and george could be correct here if you listen to geeogres responses he always says early records.. his examples keep cutting off at main tooth and nail. Don's responses in the clips talk about under lock n key in particular....
I personally believe both. Camps contributed.... though separately with pilson as the link.
Of course they all contributed. This is the usual boring musician’s ego in a band thing. I find it boring, I couldn’t care less who wrote 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% or 100% of Dokken Eighties songs. They care because now it all comes down to money and some fellas don’t like splitting it four ways.
@thevampyre2598 Actually, no money is no longer a factor because all four members have sold off their shares of the back catalog. That's why we got the box set last year.
@@gregorypeck1606 Of course it's about money, here's Don's quotes to Blabbermouth in December 2023:
"I said, 'Let's make it simple. You write a hit, you write a hit, you write a hit, we'll just split it four ways. It doesn't matter who writes what. May the best songs win.' And that's how it was. Now, looking back, I could say it was a stupid thing to do, because I wrote a lot of the hits and I gave up 75 percent to the three of them. So instead of me getting four bucks, I got a dollar and Mick got a dollar and George got a dollar and Jeff got a dollar and the management took theirs and the accountants took theirs, and I thought, 'Jesus.' I go, 'I lost millions' writing 'In My Dreams' and 'Just Got Lucky' or 'Alone Again'. I mean, I can name a bazillion songs that I wrote by myself on the guitar and wrote all the music."
There's the guy himself still moaning about song writing credits and royalties just a couple of months ago, I didn't pull my reply to you out of my a$$.
@@gregorypeck1606 Of course it's about money and song writing royalties. Here's Don complaining in his Blabbermouth interview just from December 2023:
"I said, 'Let's make it simple. You write a hit, you write a hit, you write a hit, we'll just split it four ways. It doesn't matter who writes what. May the best songs win.' And that's how it was. Now, looking back, I could say it was a stupid thing to do, because I wrote a lot of the hits and I gave up 75 percent to the three of them. So instead of me getting four bucks, I got a dollar and Mick got a dollar and George got a dollar and Jeff got a dollar and the management took theirs and the accountants took theirs, and I thought, 'Jesus.' I go, 'I lost millions' writing 'In My Dreams' and 'Just Got Lucky' or 'Alone Again'. I mean, I can name a bazillion songs that I wrote by myself on the guitar and wrote all the music."
@@jimmycampbell78 they sold all that shit bro so no, it's not money at this point
I read all this shit you posted....Don bringing it up NOW is pride and ego . Maybe he regrets money he feels he gave up but he knows they all just signed off on a deal for the back catalog so bringing it up now has zero impact on money
I assume the truce of recent years is now again broken. I don't know who to believe, but I'd like to hear Lynch dispel the claim that Don made that he and their producer arranged George's solos after he left the studio each night. I've looked at George differently since hearing that.
"Into The Fire" solo is definitely edited
...easy to tell.
Of all other solos, nothing really jumps out as being spliced together, but that doesn't mean they absolutely aren't.
However, if George lays down a solo and a series of wicked fills that an engineer flips around, to create something like Cry Of The Gypsy, IMO the credit still goes to George because no one else could make the playing sound like that coming out of the amp. That's where the magic is as far as the music part. The mastery of the guitar with Lynch's very unique stamp.
@@jfo3000 George Lynch is one of my favorite guitar players, and I agree with what you said about him receiving credit for his playing which has always been amazing. He has a way of phrasing things-a language in its own right-that sets it apart from anyone else.
I know a few guitarists who went to college to study music theory who don't think he's very good, and I always disagree with their haughty opinions because he has something about his playing that you can't teach.
That said, if what Don said is true, George does not deserve ALL of the credit. Watching Lynch live and separate from Don is exactly what I would expect from someone who is fantastically gifted, but nonetheless a freeform player who needed help structuring his solos to help give them a sort of three-act structure for lack of a better description (a better beginning, middle and end), and if Don and their producer and/or engineer had a hand in that, then those solos were collaborations both from a legal and ethical point of view.
I remember Warren De Martini talking about his producer editing one of his solos and how difficult it was because it was "something [he] never played", and thus he found it very difficult to play live, so he never did it again. Personally I think there are likely many solos George would find difficult to play live because of the editing, so he doesn't even try. Yes, it's all him, but as Warren pointed out, the edited solos have you jumping around the neck or otherwise doing something beyond your natural abilities, and perhaps this is just as much a source of the friction between Don and George as anything else. George might even resent Don and his producer for making the solos better.
In addition to "Into the Fire", which I agree sounds edited, "Tooth and Nail" is another one that clearly sounds that way to me as well (which Don claims he edited), and I find nothing wrong with the "collaboration" except that it really wasn't. In other words, Don and the producer working behind George's back second and/or third shift after George left the studio is not collaborating in my opinion. Perhaps the better approach would have been to edit the solos as part of a collaborating process in which they could let George use them as a guide in their next session so that the solos were performed again earnestly within his wheelhouse.
As Don pointed out in one interview, he didn't even know if George knew he had been in on the editing. That's not a very open and trusting relationship if you have to edit in secret. I'm not blaming one person over the other. Maybe Don was just sneaky that way, or maybe he had tried something more open with George in the past and knew he would never be amenable to such input again, even if it made him a better player (and produced a better result).
We'll likely never satisfactorily get to the bottom of it, but one thing I am confident in saying is that-based on what I've seen him do live and outside of Dokken-George had help with his amazing guitar playing in Dokken, and I personally believe it made the music better because he really is more of a freeform player. My suspicion is that Brad Paisley is very much the same way. I believe he is more freeform and his producers and/or engineers help harness is raw power into the great melodic solos on his album (which he departs from immensely live).
It's part of what makes George (and Brad) great as Don pointed out because perhaps thinking too much in terms of the three-part-structure would have made George (and players like Brad) less spontaneous, less instinctive and thus less amazing in my opinion. In other words, Don and the producer would let George out of his cage and unleash the beast from the east, but then at the end of the night they had to put him back in his cage to sleep. That allowed them to harness but also channel his playing into the amazing songs/solos from the 80's. That's how I see it anyway.
I thought they were 'too old to argue'
If anything these old rockers argue more often the older they get. Journey and Kiss are both complete shitshows.
This is the best and entertaining side of Dokken. The muzak is just the scenery of the plot but their drama and comedy is where it really happens. 😄
George's comments were from 2011.
Freaking supremely entertaining
To me “All songs written by Dokken” means written by THE BAND: 25% x 4. Otherwise it would say “All songs written by Don Dokken”
I made a mistake. I meant to say, "These bands of the 80s [i wrote the 70s in the origninal] expected to make millions on their second album with 100-date tours, with MTV marketing the album for you."
It's difficult to believe what Don says. Jeff does alot of engineering and producing of other musicians. Therefore I don't believe the others didn't participate in the song writing.
dokken is a balladist... he loves Camilo Sesto, do a research
Don's stuff about hanging with EVH, talking about their kids (before EVH ever had Wolfgang) and on & on. I tend to think George has the more accurate account here. Classic L.S.D.
I only cared about Dokken songs for Lynch's guitar anyway.
The writing credits on Tooth & Nail tell an entirely different story than what Donald wants us to believe.
I believe it.. I was the driving creative force in a band and the A-hole vocalist ran around telling anyone that would listen that he wrote all the songs. One day I handed him my guitar and said "Here, man. Since you're telling everyone you wrote these songs.. PLAY THEM!"
Wonder what Pilson would say about all this? 🤷♂️
Yes, I would like to hear what Pilson has to say.
The fact that Pilson has recorded new material with George and Mick after his Foreigner gig ended kind of says a lot. Don's current version of Dokken played her locally about 2 years ago. They were ridiculously late in starting and then when they did start the band sounded good but Don simply cannot sign anymore. He is singing everything an octave down and it just sounded like crap. I walked out after about 30 minutes.
Wonder what Corey Taylor would say about this ?
@@kevinpatrick8788 I think Don is right.
"I'm not going to answer that." Ha ha ha ha ha! George Lynched your ass Don. You could tell that Mr. Scary could take Dokken down.
You can prove George's claims by looking up those song titles. They are all tv movies. That is true.
Jeez. Escalating AGAIN?!?
Van Halen had these same arguments , which partially led to them getting rid of DLR and SH.
If Don Dokken wrote all of the music, why does Lynch Mob sound like Dokken? If Lynch didn't write the music, then Lynch Mob would sound completely different.
Well, I can say this. I saw Dokken years ago, in the 80's, and shook Don's hand. His hand was so soft it made me throw up in my mouth a little. I mean the softest skin I had ever felt. Just grossed me out.
I don't know about his work ethic but I can tell you that hand never swung a hammer. Yuk.
I once shook Sugar Ray Leonard’s hand, and it was the same. Fighters protect their hands.
I got to go with George on this based on his body of work and influence to the music scene. As a teenager in the 80s, the only reason Dokken was even relevant was because of Lynch’s playing and both he and Yngwie were literally ruling the guitar scene. Lynch was unique and a force to be reckoned with. When he left Dokken as formed Lynch Mob, it immediately proved to everyone his writing skills and that he was the primary force and contributing factor to Dokken’s success. Lynch continues to write like crazy and has released a TON of material compared to Don. I liked Don’s album Up from the Ashes, but aside from that (and his guitar players tried really hard to even sound like George), what has he really done since that has been relevant? I can’t think of much. The music speaks for itself.
Met Don twice, A Lazy Buffoon who put down George while he soloed at toads Place in New Haven while we chatted back stage. He complained about his voice and how he was sick. ALWAYS!!!
I remember the Lynch Mob video,
in which Mick was explaining to the cameraman, that Don went out & sold the rights of Dokken songs, 100%.
It was right after Don found out that the band was jumping ship asap.
Mick found out on a phone call w/ Don, when he & Geo were taking a LM rehearsal break.
Oh well. 😐
As a (non pro) guitarist, I see lot of the "unorthodox" approach to guitar soloing, typical of George Lynch, in many of Dokken song's structures; if what Don Dokken tells is true, it looks like he has written all the songs and taught Lynch how to play chords and solos. Do you believe that?😂 Anyway I agreed: the truth is probably in between..
I know I don't believe it. The truth is probably Don did like 10% of the work lol.
At no time would Lynch or Pilson ever say something like that, because it's super clear who wrote what on each album and if it had all been Don's doing, Dokken would have had zero balls.
Contrary to popular belief alcohol alone can distort memory moreso than cocaine and most other drugs. Cancer from excessive tobacco abuse can possibly cause delusional convictions
I believe alcohol is the devil
They were the drug addicts who tanked their careers and ruined dokken because of it , with out Don they'd have no career period!
I gotta go with George and Jeffs talent on this argument. Without those riffs, Don would have been a dud.
Don makes it sound like the rest of the band were fuck up’s. Well, the band that I was with (the Chicago band Cuttlass) opened for Dokken in the 90’s and George and the band played great,but Don was horrible and seemed to just be going through the motions. We kicked ass and George remembered that,and he had us open for Lynch Mob a few years later. He’s a great guy.
Its funny, Don said the same thibg about George "believing his own hype" in the guitar magazines