Tom Werman on Nikki Sixx Not Playing Bass on Motley Crue's Theatre of Pain - 2024 Interview
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2024
- This is a full in bloom interview with producer Tom Werman. Tom talks about his new book, Turn It Up!: My Time Making Hit Records In The Glory Days Of Rock Music, and Nikki Sixx's bass playing on the Motley Crue albums.
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"It wasn't Nikki (Sixx) playing bass" on Motley Crue's Theatre of Pain Says 'Eye Witness' Greg Leon:
• "It wasn't Nikki (Sixx...
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Intro & Outro by FOOL OF FATE
#motleycrue #nikkisixx #mickmars #tommylee #vinceneil 
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I remember an episode of "Driven" on MTV where the producer calls the manager during Shout at the Devil and says "We got the drums and the guitar down, but your singer can't sing and your bass player can't play!" The manager replied "No shit, they never could. That's why we hired you."
How can anybody believe a guy (Nikki) who claims to have remembered everything he did while high (and passed out) on heroin? He says he'd get wasted on it and then start writing everything down that happened. It's interesting that no other heroin addict in the history of the drug was able to do so
Even William Burroughs and Samuel Taylor Coleridge writing was more semi-lucid dreaming.
My theory: Nikki played on the first two. He was out of his gourd from drugs on Theater and being strapped for time got a session bassist for a few songs. Absolutely believable
Sixx smashed his Porsche into a wall destroying his shoulder, it knocked him out of action from early 83 to 85, his replacement Matthew Trippe played on Shout and Theater
@sify Any idea who played on the demos for Shout then? And if the shoulder put him out of action from 83 to 85, why does it look like Nikki Sixx is playing bass at the US Festival in Devore in 83, three and a half months before Shout came out? Unless you're talking recordings only. Still, the parts on the Shout recordings don't seem to be any more difficult than what's being played live at Devore. But if his shoulder was completely messed up when Shout was recorded.... point taken.
Edited for accuracy: Devore was in May 83, Shout came out in September 83. My bad.
Why wouldn’t Mick have played bass though? It’s probably more likely that happened and a lot of bands have had drummers play an added guitar rhythm or whatever. Just because someone’s the drummer doesn’t mean that’s their only instrument. The Beatles switched off on instruments a lot! David Gilmour’s played bass, drums and keyboards on some Pink Floyd songs. You can’t always believe what is said in interviews either, even from an industry veteran. Tom is pretty much a “straight shooter” from what he’s said and there have been things he said some of the fans haven’t liked,so of course he’s going to be questioned on some of his quotes and diminished down to “ of course he’s lying he’s plugging his book!”
@@muziktrkrThis would've been the logical thing to do, as he knew the songs in and out and all. Steve Jones played bass on Nevermind the bollocks also.
Nikki played on Shout and Theatre...stop with the lies, rumors, urban legends. Everybody has a story about Crue. The producer Tom Werman right here is telling you Nikki played every note.
Country singer and guitarist Vince Gill played the solo part for the Alice Cooper song, The Runaway Train. Amazing. Steve Farris guitarist of Mr. Mr. Played the solo for the song Creatures of the night for Kiss. Robben Ford played some in studio for Kiss. Mike Slammer played on the first two albums for Warrant. TOTO as a band together played sessions for other bands they were friends with. All these behind the scenes players helped make the 1980s music a good time. I am glad for it. My music collection contains some great memories.
Jeff Pocaro's drums and Steve Lukather's guitar are all over loads of records in the 80's. Top notch studio cats.
Even singer coatsh ken tamplin participated on "Revenge" by Kiss. As did Tommy Thayer
Hey folks ever heard of a NDA? I'm pretty sure Tom has signed one in the past and therefore can't talk about some things,can't even pretend to hear of certain rumors . 👍 Tom is a legend,and has accomplished a lot.
I agree 100%...even as he was saying NO..he was laughing uncomfortably in my opinion..something commonly done when you..well..when maybe you're not telling the whole story.
Exactly. Lawyers are involved and they have to sign all kinds of papers. There's no way he's going to spill the beans.
Yeah, I started to realize this guy is all business and will say whatever is the best legal footing...even if it is BS. He sort of lost me at being 'shocked' that rock bands sometimes bring in session players. That was common practice in the 60's; and later, the huge revelation that Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter played the iconic solos on Aerosmith Train Kept A Rollin, for example. Surely he heard of that?
I use to think I wasnt good enough to play in a band. Nikki didnt care. He just joined bands anyway. His writing got him by while he learned how to play.
He also somehow was able to take credit for the musical writing credits . Anyone who knows Mick can tell Nikki didn't write those hit riffs . As an example the song Louder than Hell , main riffs , had that Ritchie Blackmore style . Deep Purple was one of Mick's favorite bands . Listen to the last part of the lead solo , on Take Me to the Top . It's from Blackmore's solo on Highway Star . Also the riff for Dr Feelgood , had that catchy hook to it using a chord Hendrix had used . Again Hendrix was one of Mick's favorite players . Nikki wrote the lyrics , but the guy is a fraud as the musical creator in Motley Crue . That's why he hired Bob Rock to produce the new album with John 5 . Without Mick he doesn't know what to do for a hit song musically in their style . He needs Rock to help craft a hit for them
It was unwritten common knowledge that a lot of people were replaced on records. It's one thing to play live it's another thing to lay down a flawless in time track in a short amount of time. It's a skill a lot of people just don't have. I think it was Lukather that said you don't know how many people don't know they didn't play on their own record. I can't tell you how many times I got a call to come down and save a session and ok here's five grand and a bag of blow and don't say anything.
and whats absurd is the notion Werman has NEVER heard of this!! Thatz how you know he is full of sh*t.
5G and a bag of blow? now THATS a gig. Oh to live in the old days. Oh, and be GOOD!
Watch the documentary "Hired Guns". It briefly covers session players playing the "star" player's parts on an album. Music is a business! And a hungover, unreliable player is NOT going to cost a record company money!
Reb Beach and Kip Winger ghosted on tracks and the bands didn't even know they did it. A guy was brought in to play all of the solos on the first Warrant album and they knew about it
No surprise. I've heard this since the 80's. Happens more than people think.
Tom Werman never tires of hearing himself talk.
Matt Trippe said he played the bass in the studio on 2 MC albums and was a stand in for Nikki Sixx during the shoulder injury and everybody thought he was crazy. Seems like he was telling the truth.
Werman still abiding by a expired NDA. Cmon Tom everyone in LA knows Nikki copped his look and clothes from that crazy kid Matt lol.
@@b.m.2434 He actually coped it from Blackie Lawless.
@@b.m.2434or Johnny Thunders
Sounds like if there was a whole bunch of people, he could’ve copped it from then maybe all those people were copying too. Point is, just because you like someone’s look, and that influences how you dress, doesn’t take anything away from it. This is just a stupid argument when people talk about stealing his looks. Jesus, every fucking glam band or hair metal band looked at the same.
I saw motley crue often before they got signed mostly at the troubadour and the whiskey he same places my band played and they All played just fine tommy and mick were the standouts of the band in my openion but his bass playing was just fine !!
exactly! Nothing wrong with just being solid at bass which for Motley works. It's not Geddy Lee and doesn't have to be.
You always bring interesting videos to your viewers. Thanks Full in Bloom. I appreciate your channel.
I appreciate you. Thank you!
Screw everything about Niki. Especially his corny little heroin diaries. Least favorite “rocker” (yea right) of all time. Prime example of what one would call “fake”
there's a reason we in the thrash community called them posers
He couldn't even come up with his own name. He had to steal another singer's stage name.
@@johnbyrnes3790 You do realize Motley Crue and Metallica had the same producer Bob Rock right?
i do. and that's when we started calling metallica sellouts and posers. the black album sucks. try again@@wantsome-zs5sq
@@wantsome-zs5sq metallica is a poser band that can't play too lol, they have someone like me produce them that can play everything 😂
Bless Toms heart for keeping the show biz alive, but it is not uncommon in the industry to bring in players to redo parts at a studio players level for the recording. Live players don't get to focus on the details that studio guys do, just as great studio guys might be boring performers because the showman works on that.
My band decided to do Uncle Tom's Cabin. I started researching and you immediately find album credits show a session player. That's why that music sounds do good. It's actual musicians.
Man, the guitars on that song are killer.
@@thewhiteelephant Super fun to play.
I CANNOT WAIT TO READ THIS BOOK!!!!
Kiss was famous for it. They 've admitted it a thousand times. Bob Kulick? Tom's supposedly never heard that before either? Steve Lukather? Dan Huff? He's never heard of them? They did sessions for rock bands who's guitar players suck too . This is unheard of? Really?
Neither guitar player played on the first two Warrant album. And Fred Coury, who was a good drummer, didnt play on most Cinderella albums. The lead guitarist in Vixen didnt play on their biggest hit. Kiss played their own stuff until Ace and Peter became unreliable. Then they brought in ghost guitarists and Anton Fig to play drums. It's for sure common.
thats not true. Mike Hammer played solos and a few lead licks on quite a few. The warrant guys played rhythm parts and a few solos. Then Mike taught them what he played for them. Theres an inbloom interview and they go thru track by track
It seems unlikely “big shot” Tom Werman would discover ghost players in 2024. The ‘80s were competitive, everyone was watching everybody else, he would have known A&R guys, sound engineers or just studio staff that were familiar with it … unless he is playing silly, or did it all himself.
@daveg4236 youre right. They did play rhythm guitar. And that wasnt a shot at those guys. They were quality players
This guy is trying to keep the open secret about the music business.
The book was one of the most sanctimonious, self loving piles of crap that I have ever had the misfortune to read. Weirdly most who worked with him ended up disliking the man- speaks volumes.
Great interview. Very interesting. Thanks!
Session players could learn an 80’s rock song in 5 minutes
Thanks again
"Shocked" at the idea of a rock band hiring ghost players? Please...
Nikki Vanilli.
I have worked on several studio projects where the Producer has totally replaced entire Bass tracks with another player and never even told the original player/performer.
IDK This guy is acting like this is the first he has heard of this. Sketchy.
Agreed...hes never heard of session players on rock alumbs?!?!?! When he was in the heyday of the 80's producing the biggest bands records and highly involved in the community of record producers and he NEVER heard of secret session players on recordings?!?!?
I saw Motley last summer, super obvious (as a guitar player myself) Nikki was not playing bass.
Can't speak to who played bass, but the comment about not knowing about studio musicians during the 80's etc. is just crap... guys like Steve Lukather, Michael Landau, Dann Huff, Tim Pierce were well known and in constant demand.
Steve Hunter
I love this show, wish the interviews were longer
go to his website
Wow. My respect for Tom Werman just went down a few notches. Some of the stuff he said was just unbelievable. Just WOW.
Dude I really believe that Werman is a scumbag. Took points from every record, but dammit if he hardly did anything to deserve it..
@@seanmurphy26 you seriously didn't think Tom did anything? Have you ever recorded an album in a million dollar studio with a world - renowned producer?
@machupikachu1085 actually a couple, ever heard of the Scottish outfit, Texas?!
@@machupikachu1085.... you need to hear from some musicians he "produced" who all state he was rarely present and left it up to engineers. why would they ALL lie and he is telling the the truth?!?! Nikki Sixx himself doesnt like Werman. Neither do many others. And the idea he has "NEVER HEARD" of studio musicians being subbed in is a crock of sh*t. He never heard of Bob Ezrin, Bruce Fairbarn, Eddie Kramer, Beau Hill??? All platinum selling rock producers who subbed in studio.musicians on tracks.
It was talked about throughout the Sunset scene that Nikki couldn't play.
But he wrote all the music and lyrics for some kick ass Crue records. It was never about his bass playing chops
@@markn3936We're not talking about his song writing ability, though.
I mean he did his job as a bassist. Crue songs don’t need intricate bass lines like Rush. Most bassists in the 80s hair metal/rock scene had the easiest jobs playing root notes
It makes a lot of sense why the heavier thrash bands hated the hair metal Sunset strip scene. It was all about image. Heard the story of Warrant bringing in a studio musician to teach and record guitar solos on their debut album. This probably was common with pop rock and glam rock stars, with the exception of a few bands. If it wasn't for Mick Mars Motley Crue would have faded into obscurity in the 1980s.
Not true for a lot of those bands who were amazing musicians and could outplay a lot of those thrash bands. Kip Winger said it best when he said Metallica hated him because his band could easily play Metallica songs but Metallica couldn’t play Winger. And it’s true.
@chrisbranco1969 I stated with exceptions of a few bands. Winger was a talented band, and so was Dokken and Ratt. Van Halen was the king of that style. However it got oversaturated with all these other knock off bands from around 1986 to 1990.
@@donnyramay2635 I agree on that.
But..metallica DID start to sound like some artsy fartsy prog metal band ..the irony...when Dave left metallica..so did their Musical complexity..
Yeah. I have the utmost respect for Mick. All my guitar friends after dr. Feelgood were like wow! Have you heard micks guitar playing? On dr. Feelgood. It was very phenomenal and made them huge. I remember interviewer asking Mick about Nikki's writing on feelgood. He was like yeah he came in with a few chords that he had to actually structure into a song. Nikki is sooo high on himself. Fakest rock star ever!
Tom Werman's credibility is that of an attorney. He would NOT rat out his own clients. We'll never know the truth.
People sign NDA's all the time. The current Bon Jovi Bass player is a perfect example. He was asked in an interview if it was actually him that played on all the early Bon Jovi records (not just the initial single) and instead of answering yes or no he said "ask Jon about that". Way too many musicians have come forward to spill the beans on Motley Crue. Werman probably signed a NDA which is why he won't say anything.
The current Bon Jovi bassist wasn't IN the band back then anyway. It was Alec Jon Such who quit maybe a decade or so ago. Although I believe the single you're referring to is "runaway" and apparently yes JBJ got a bunch of pros to play (and maybe even write) that song to get him through the record label doors. He just sang over the top of what all the session guys played and then when he had gotten label interest enlisted the guys who became the "members" of the band. I think they were all pretty much contract employees except for RS, who was given a bigger stake.
@ty8811 No. What I said is true. Go look at the credits. Hugh may have only been credited on a few songs on each album before he was officially in the band, but he actually recorded all the Bass on the records. He was basically Bon Jovi's studio Bassist and Alec was the live Bassist.
@@bubbatha wow. I didn't know that. I'm gonna trust your word and not bother looking it up, mostly because it's bon Jovi and therefore not really up my musical alley except for a couple of tunes off 7800° when I'm in the mood for 80s nostalgia.
Maybe that situation with Hugh had something to do with AJS quitting. From what you're saying it sounds like he had no creative role in the band at all which was probably frustrating. Idk... But the machinations of bj behind the scenes when compared to the image projected by JBJ thru their videos, like some band of brothers are kind of cynically interesting, so thanks for the info.
Yes! It's been rumoured for years Hugh was the studio bass player since the first Album!
@@eternity8811 In the new documentary that was just released about Bon Jovi, Jon admits it was Hugh on the records.
It wouldn't take hours for a pro to come in and learn a Motley Crue song. They did it all the time. I find it hard to believe Tom had never heard of it. Not that Nikki didn't play on it, but it definitely wouldn't have been unheard of to pull in a ringer.
What's so "crazy" about those "stories" when Nikki himself admitted it to Bob Rock and then Bob Rock spilled the beans publicly? Those "stories" came straight out of the horse's mouth. He had to come clean to Bob Rock before they went in to record Dr. Feelgood because Rock was a serious producer with a respectable reputation. Simple as that.
It´s well established that the guitarist on the first Warrant records was Mike Slamer, formerly of British band City Boy, and not the guitarist´s in the band. That this is news to Tom Werman is pretty surprising
Mike Slamer played solos on the record, but the guitarists form Warrant played on the record.
CC Deville played the solo on Cherry Pie
How is it "well established" when Motley Crue's primary music producer says it's bullshit?? I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's silly to believe in conspiracy theories for no reason.
@@jameshutchinson568 He is talking about Warrant, and Tom said it is news to him, when everybody knows Mike Slammer played.
I don't know what he played or didn't play on what record, what I *DO* know is that there is a significant difference in the bass playing on Too Fast For Love than there is on any other Motley record.
Well, at the very least, you can count on Werman to keep a secret. In the face of all these facts, he ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to squeal on Nikki's involvement in the recording process. Not even vague, roundabout hints. Even if he signed an NDA, he could use wording to verify the rumours. AND, I don't think Nikki wants to sue someone over this & be publicly shamed into admitting he didn't play on the records.
The live drummer for Cinderella, Fred Coury never played on any of the Cinderella albums. It was all a studio drummer. So I hear.
Cozy Powell played drums on the first Cinderella album
@@sagedrummer AND, the 2nd one.
That's a shame cause Fred was actually a good drummer
@@DouglasSnodgrass Maybe, he just couldn't play to a click? I saw them on the "Long Cold Winter" tour, & he seemed fine to MY ears.
@@teeoh9192 I think the click is overrated. Things start sounding mechanical and calculated. This is not classical orchestra music, sometimes a flaw gives it a bit more depth and feeling. A metronome is fine. But it's just ridiculous when you go into different time signatures and key changes. Rock music was never designed to be perfect but is a state of mind. Am not knocking bands that are meticulously perfect. But I feel most lose passion and emotion
If Mick Mars said Nikki played on the albums would anyone on here believe it
Excellent ..
I know Randy Jackson was called in to play bass on Stryper's cover of Shinning Star on Tom Weman produced Against The Law because they didn't feel like Tim Gaines playing was good enough.
Even joe perry of aerosmith had session guys replace him on early records
haha, good! Perhaps one of THE sloppiest and overrated guitarists ever.
Brad Whitford also played/created a lot of the solos people thought Joe played on records.
@@smandez2023sloppy guitar players who can write will ALWAYS go further than more precise and technique driven players who have no creativity.
A producer says he "did not even know any session bass players." That is ridiculous, he most certainly met several by just being in a studio. It is possible he might not know "a session bass player" well, but he certainly knows a bass player to come in and ghost, just like he knows a guitarist, drummer, keyboardist, and vocalist to come in and ghost. At that time studios cost huge money, and a producer was there to get things done, get the tracks down for the record company. Furthermore, the matter is as simple as the NDA people signed with the record company. NDAs are rock solid in civil court, that is why nobody, not even people that run their mouth all the time, break them.
He didn't want to start trouble. I don't think Nikki laid a note down.
I was interested in getting the book until iheard this interview...hes actually saying hes never heard of secret session players on rock albums?!?!?! There is NO WAY he could have not heard of it being as deep he was in the producing world. If hes gonna lie about that (or not remember) then how can i believe anything in the book!?!?!?
All he said was that was unheard of on the albums he produced.
By the bands he produced.
Why would he care about what other producers do?
Unless they’re friends.
Werman has more platinum records under his belt than most producers could dream of.
Period.
But he’s going to lie and sully his reputation?
For what?
Nikki Sixx WROTE THE F’ING SONGS.
You don’t think he could play the bass lines to the songs HE WROTE?🤯
Are you high?🤷♂️
agreed 💯
@BillMcGirr ....Ummm thats not what he said. He said he had never HEARD of that. Thats a crock of shit. Werman never heard of BOB EZRIN? Come on thats BS. Werman is full of it. Supposedly Nikki writes everything (ever heard of DJ Ashba) but the idea when he was in his "admitted" multiple rehab trips and broken shoulder that Doc McGhee wouldnt get a fill in especially in the studio for such basic mundane bass parts is also quite preposterous. DEF could have happened. Werman also didnt engineer shit and left it up to other people. He has admitted he wasnt in the studio all the time with the artists he produced. Some claim they hardly saw him.
@@rocknroll6396 Yeah..i recall him saying that too. $hit was going down when he wasnt around for sure....and Tommy's friend he brought to the studio is flat out saying he spoke to Tom IN THE STUDIO asking wheres Nikki?!?!
@@BillMcGirr I know Nikki was MAIN song writer and lyrics and yes he could play the bass BUT playing in the studio on an album is an entirely different beast...som musicians can wrote a song and can play live no problem but have trouble in recording studio...fear, nervousness, intimidation.etc..etc..for a number of reasons. Maybe Nikki is one of those guys. Its possible.
Mike Slamer did 2 albums with Kansas singer/keyboardist Steve Walsh in a band called Streets. Their first in 1983 is an absolute hidden gem. Always an unsung favorite of mine, Paul Gilbert called it out as the same for him a couple of years ago. Start with "If Love Should Go" and take it from there. Slamer is a beautifully skilled player, and Steve Walsh is... Steve Walsh.
Jesus Christ session players play on stuff all the time when something just doesn’t work.
“Would have took hours to learn the songs…” uh, no. Any session guy would be able to nail any motley tune in less than a half hour.
Nicki is a Bass Holder. Not a Bass Player.. don’t forget it.
Many people didn’t realize Def Leppard was using drum machines instead of a one armed drummer in the studio
He played the cymbals on Pyromania with two arms, and Hysteria with one.
They also did this on pyromania. But it’s still impressive considering he had to learn to play it live with one arm
WTF? Mick is the real musician of Mostly Crud!
Nicky Suxx
totally , i mean he _only_ wrote 90% of all the Crue's best music ..but apart from that yeah he's never gonna be cool like you 🤡🤡🤡
Too Fast For Love
All tracks written by Nikki Sixx, except where noted
Side one
1. "Live Wire" 3:14
2. "Public Enemy #1" Sixx, Lizzie Grey 4:22
3. "Take Me to the Top" 3:43
4. "Merry-Go-Round" 3:22
5. "Piece of Your Action" Lyrics: Sixx, Vince Neil / Music: Sixx 4:39
Side two
6. "Starry Eyes" 4:28
7. "Stick to Your Guns" 4:20
8. "Come On and Dance" 3:11
9. "Too Fast for Love" 4:11
10. "On with the Show" Lyrics: Sixx, Neil / Music: Sixx 4:07
Shout At The Devil
All lyrics and music written by Nikki Sixx, except where noted.
Side one
1. "In the Beginning" Geoff Workman 1:13
2. "Shout at the Devil" 3:16
3. "Looks That Kill" 4:07
4. "Bastard" 2:54
5. "God Bless the Children of the Beast" (Instrumental) Mick Mars 1:33
6. "Helter Skelter" John Lennon, Paul McCartney Lennon-McCartney 3:09
Side two
1. "Red Hot" Sixx, Mars, Vince Neil 3:20
2. "Too Young to Fall in Love" 3:34
3. "Knock 'Em Dead, Kid" Neil, Sixx 3:43
4. "Ten Seconds to Love" Sixx, Neil 4:17
5. "Danger" Mars, Sixx, Neil 3:51
Theater Of Pain
All lyrics are written by Nikki Sixx except where noted
Side one
1. "City Boy Blues" Sixx, Mick Mars, Vince Neil 4:10
2. "Smokin' in the Boys Room" (Brownsville Station cover) Cub Koda, Lutz 3:27
3. "Louder Than Hell" Sixx 2:32
4. "Keep Your Eye on the Money" Sixx 4:40
5. "Home Sweet Home" Sixx, Tommy Lee 3:59
Side two
6. "Tonight (We Need a Lover)" Sixx, Neil 3:37
7. "Use It or Lose It" Sixx, Mars, Neil, Lee 2:39
8. "Save Our Souls" Sixx, Neil 4:13
9. "Raise Your Hands to Rock" Sixx 2:48
10. "Fight for Your Rights" Sixx, Mars 3:50
Girls Girls Girls
All lyrics are written by Nikki Sixx except "Jailhouse Rock" by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller
Side one
1. "Wild Side" Sixx, Tommy Lee 4:41
2. "Girls, Girls, Girls" Sixx, Lee, Mick Mars 4:30
3. "Dancing on Glass" Sixx, Mars 4:18
4. "Bad Boy Boogie" Sixx, Lee, Mars 3:27
5. "Nona" Sixx 1:27
Side two
6. "Five Years Dead" Sixx 3:50
7. "All in the Name Of..." Sixx, Vince Neil 3:39
8. "Sumthin' for Nuthin'" Sixx, Neil 4:49
9. "You're All I Need" Lee, Sixx 4:32
10. "Jailhouse Rock (live)" (Elvis Presley cover) Leiber, Stoller 4:39
@@mattdylan664 get a life
Listen to his bass solos live..Its straight eighth notes on one string..Sixx is a novice bass player at best.. Anyone who has seen him live and actually heard the bass in concert understands perfectly...He had every opportunity to become a great player. He just chose not to practice.. He was not in love with the bass/guitar he was in love with rock star life.. An interviewer was trying to pry this out of Mick, but he has too much class to walk in the mud..I absolutely love Motley and think Mick never got the credit he deserved but he definitely reaped all the financial rewards..
Nikki is the Lars Ulrich of bass guitar.
@@MykeLewisMusicYea, both very good at their craft.
I've seen videos of Mick playing bass in 94.
I enjoyed the book. I found the A&R stuff more interesting than the production anecdotes.
Im sure Tom Werman is lying. He has reasons to lie. One being money, and two being to save face.
You want to believe it , so you assume he's lying. If you saw a video of him playing and recording the album, you'd convince yourself that it was an AI produced fake. You have no real idea if he played on it or not.
Kayfabe died years ago, Tom. Decades ago, actually. You're just embarrassing yourself.
Session bass players don't need "hours" to learn a song. People like Leland Sklar or Will Lee have described in detail how they work. You can't lie about that stuff anymore, it's out there. Also it's goddamn Motley Crue, not Zappa or King Crimson. It's music made by complete idiots for complete idiots. Nikki Sixx isn't John Entwistle or Steve Harris.
You've never heard of members of rock bands being replaced by session players on studio tracks? So you've never heard of bands like Kiss or Cinderella for example? You've never even heard of The Beatles? Guess who plays the drums on "Love Me Do"? Andy White, not Ringo Starr - because producer George Martin ordered to do it that way. Ringo is 83 years old and STILL pissed off that he was replaced by a different drummer on their first EMI single and he only got to play the tambourine on it. That was over 61 years ago - and he still gets angry when he's asked about it.
Sorry, but it is true and Much more common than people think ... I did a grip of no name stuff replacing bad drummers and sometimes it was without the groups knowledge and sometimes it was the members of the group replacing weak crappy tracks in the middle of the night ... We were known as Slingers ... "Drum Slinger" or "Guitar Slinger" as in a hired Gun Slinger !
It was well known that Frankie Serrafino wanted to live the rock lifestyle before he even picked up the bass…. He was pretty much the MGK of the 80’s Sunset Strip….
This sounds like a really good book. I haven't read many books about rock n' roll, but I'm going to have read this one.
A Good book to read is Andy Taylor's
If you haven't read Motley Crue's "The Dirt", then you're really missing out! The gold standard of gonzo rock n roll debauchery!
@@teeoh9192 I've read it! Easily the best book about the music industry that I've read.
@teeoh9192 and full of lies.
@@teeoh9192 I have read it. Definitely entertaining!
Nikki Sixx is just a liar anyway
I agree! Tommy lee is average or below average drummer! The only talent in that band was mick mars!!!!
@@paulhabrelewicz7749nah, totally disagree, Tommy is a brilliant drummer. He’s lost it now but in his prime he was a beast
Even I could play the bass on Theater of Pain. 😅 Tom Werman was obviously snorting as much gear as the rest of the band.
Sixx just wrote the entire album!
@ThePedophileExposingHunter no he just writes their songs. Try writing 9 albums?!
Whatever the case may be with Warrant and their first album in the studio, I saw them live on that tour in a very small club in Boston (The Channel) and the lead guitarist was fantastic. He even expanded on the solos from the album! The players were all great in fact
The guitarist they brought in ended up giving the guy's in Warrant guitar lessons
@@JJ-oe9wc That was Mike Slamer.
Man this guy sounds like Saul Goodman. (Not in the sleezy way, he just has the same voice)
No, in the sleazy way too. 😂
Same tribe.
This is common in the music industry! Now everyone knows the Matthew trippe story is true! I say kick mars comes out and tells the story!
Aerosmith train kept a rolling lead guitar is a session player. Definitely not unheard of.
the same one who replaced Ace Frehley on Sweet Pain
True. The lead guitars on Same Old Song And Dance and Train Kept A Rollin are Dick Wagner or Steve Hunter (can't remember which -- it's on the Wiki). The band was fine with it, as it wasn't every lead track on the album, and they wanted those two tracks to get played on the radio, and understood the reason the producer wanted the ringers brought in.
@chriscampbell9191 Pretty sure it was Hunter.
@@williamlangeii4012I just looked up the Wiki. It was Dick Wagner on Same Old Song And Dance, and Wagner and Steve Hunter on Train Kept A Rollin'. And I guess it was Steve Tyler who was OK with the substitutions, but Joe Perry and Brad Whitford weren't happy with the decision. But I guess the big picture here is obviously ringers were used in Rock music even during its 'classic' era. The Alice Cooper track My Stars, for example, is all Wagner, too -- one of the best solos on any of the Cooper albums.
But I still don't see why a producer would bring in a ringer for Nikki Sixx's bass parts. It's not like they're super complicated, and he seemed to play them well during that period in the live footage one can see (Us Festival 1983 being an example).
EDIT: to some who think the Wiki may have been mistaken, most Wiki entries have documentation, and the documentation in this case was taken from Dick Wagner's own website. In the Wiki in question, there is also documentation of Wagner and Hunter's contributions taken from a Guitar World article.
Werman was there. He is responsible for some of the greatest albums of all time. I need to get this book.
How can he said he never heard of people being replaced by studio musicians. Bob Ezrin did it all the time.
Yeah, I'm gonna say he just doesn't want to cause a stir with anyone since his book has come out.
all the time? He did it once on one song on Kiss Destroyer
@@earld158 Alice Cooper that I know of as well as Kiss. Also producer of Aerosmith song Train kept a Rollin was Steve Hunter. It's a common thing.
I think memories are fuzzy, i believe i heard 25+ years ago it was the girls, girls, girls album that had the session bassist on the recording.
hmmm this was quite common then. I heard they used a studio musician with Cinderella recordings too. Maybe Tom is trying to protect the integrity of his albums by trying to make it seem like HE got those great performances out of the artists.
It's now a known fact that Cozy Powell played the drums on the 1st two Cinderella albums.
Nikki had a broken shoulder during this time.
that was shout at the devil
Its old news and an industry standard to have session players, weird Tom is acting like he never heard of it. Kiss did it early on etc I think he knows Nikki didn't really play on the albums he's being nice and not starting trouble,
Tom sorta had me on his claims that Nikki played all bass tracks on the Motley records, until he acted in disbelief that Beau Hill had used session players on many of his rock albums. Makes me wonder if Nikki paid him to deny the claim that he used session players for Nikki. Then there's the story of Nikki's live dopplelganger Matthew Trippe for the Theater of Pain tour.
I think he does not want to ruffle any feathers since his book is out. The more nice he is, the better these artists are to talk and promote it.
Could be a potential NDA clause in the contract he signed when recording the band?
@@RockMediaReview I've wondered that about Mick Mars. Would not be surprised.
The wrecking crew played on many records, and werman knows it
MOST of the musicians of this era were ghosted on their records. Only people that didn't know were the musicians themselves.
That's not true at all.
Most? Go outside and touch some grass dude. Jesus Christ.
@@user-yk4gd1fl4zI agree. So easy and logical to redo parts in the studio.
@@mr.brenman2132unfortunately music business is..... a business. Also, if someone else plays your part better and makes you sound better on the recording why would a drug/drink riddled musician care
@@user-or4hs7xq9u It's not true at all that most of the albums were played by session musicians.
Yeahhhhhhhhh and the don't play to tracks during shows either. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡
If Werman gave his word at the time, nda or not, gotta respect his loyalty and honor. I think he’s lying, but it’s either lie or go back on your word.
Wait a second - Tom says that he's never heard of a rock band using session players?!?! YOU PREFACED THE QUESTIONS WITH 2 EXAMPLES !!!
The bass parts in Crue songs are pretty basic. So there's a good chance that it's Nikki, but some of Tom's comments/answers sound like a load of crap.
Some of these high dollar producers and engineers may be under a non disclosure contract in some cases !
Session players back then also kept quiet. Nobody wasn't under an NDA, but it was kind of an unwritten code that you didn't tell anyone. If you did, you wouldn't get anymore work. You just went in, did the session, got paid and went on to the next gig.
Absolutely, right on point !!! @@AceGibson1959
Of course. You are correct.
I heard that John Bon Jovi sang a lot of Vince's parts on Shout at the Devil.
In the 60's it was very common. Brian Wilson didn't even let his own brothers play on Beach Boys studio songs. Monkees had hit songs and they couldn't even play a tambourine.
Peter Tork and Nesmith were both guitarists with chops as good as a lot of artists of that era. Just because they didn't play on those early records doesn't mean they were unable. They played live shows in front of huge crowds. Do you think they were miming? Dolenz also played drums at all those concerts. At least do some research before you comment
Put Werman on a polygraph 😂
I think its totally possible regarding Nikki and I get why Nikki AND Tom wouldnt want that getting out. this is the drug heyday of all of these metal bands, I totally believe they werew a mess and to get things done...things were done.
I don’t really believe the rumors but Nikki just comes of as a dbag... don’t think it be cool to have a beer with him
Famous last words he said .anything is possible but i think i would remember that .mmmm that a fishy thing to say as the conversation ends .and you heard the tone in his voice when you brought up the live stadium tour thing .lmao he all but said yeah live probably so (meaning yes) theres a lot of the old bands doing it now its just not all have been caught dead in the act like Kiss and Motley .and i fully believe everything Mick Mars say also .
Nikki is a great song writer, Mick is a great music writer & musician, Tommy was a great drummer & Vince just plain worked for the band, they were great together until they kicked Vince out after their most successful tour to date, stupid move & they have never been the same. Still Love Motleys first 5 Albums.
Mick is the only one with a lick of sense
This whole thing about Nikki not playing on albums is absurd. Have those who believe this actually listened to the bass on the albums? A person with a few months of playing could play it, why they hell would they need to get someone else to play it? If it sounded like they went from what you heard on Shout, and then it suddenly sounded like Billy Sheehan on Theater, then i could see it. But this?
Your very logic goes against Wermans. He claims it would take any bass player "a few days" to learn a Motley Crue song to lay down bass. So who is right and who is wrong?
He has no business playing a bass!!!!!
@@rocknroll6396 I've been playing for 30+ years. It would not take days to play what Nikki plays, It's very basic. Sessions players don't need days to play anything. As long as it's transcribed, any sessions player worth their salt could sit down with the sheet music for a song they've never heard and play it right away. Even without the charts they would be able to play it after hearing the click track.
There's a drumming channel that's whole thing is getting sessions drummers: they pick a song they've never heard and the drummer listens to the song with the drum track removed; chart it out on the spot, then lay down their own drum part on the fly. That's not exclusive to drummers, it's what sessions players do.
But the third album, even if he had never played on the first two albums he would have picked up enough by osmosis to be able to play the bass parts.
@@rocknroll6396
It would take someone that has never played bass a few days to learn those songs, if they had a bit of musical inclination. A studio level player could put something down that’s ten times better than what’s on the album in one take after looking at the key of the song and the song structure.
@@Acemechanicalservices ... so you agree Werman is full of shit. He claims studio musicians could not have been used as they wouldnt know the song!! hahaha such a crock!!!
Isn't it odd that everybody has a story? All of those stories line up. But none of them agree with Werman...
That's bc he's the one that signed the NDA.
Hanging micro-phone stand helps Nikki focus on backing vocals to all the classics! 🎤🏗😉👌🤡
Theatre of Pain as a whole is pretty terrible...If I were the producer I certainly wouldn't be reminding anyone of my involvement!
That album was terrible after shout at the devil
I can't believe how they messed up the production on that one, it's a disaster.
Who cares, session musicians are used a lot more than you think
Keep in mind that it wasn't until a few month's ago that we found out that Mick Mars didn't play on the last Motley record except for a couple of solos. Yet when the record came out Mick was credited with playing the guitar. He should have only been credited for playing a couple solos (and which ones they were) while DJ Ashba should have been credited with the guitar work. People sign NDA's all the time. Too many musicians have spilled the beans on what goes on in Motley Crue in both the studio and on the road.
Wow, no one knows how NDA’s work apparently…🤓👍😒🤨
Was there any NDA signed by the parties back then?
@@OperationEndGamethey’ve always been in use
Sikki Nixx
Edward Penishands
Hours to learn a gd Crue song??? Lmfao. For who? A 3 yr old??
This guys full of poo poo. I said the same thing. Hours for a garage band?
Nikki paid this guy off
I don't get the controversy here. Admittedly, I'm not all that up on the latest gossip, but I'm aware that there are some stories that Nikki Sixx didn't play on the early records, but I also admittedly haven't researched the specifics. But this entire controversy puzzles me. I've heard the Crue... I bought Shout At The Devil, like a gazillion other people did. The bass lines aren't all that complicated. It's fairly basic bass playing -- adequate to the songs. It's not Jaco Pastorius or Geddy Lee or Flea level of bass playing on the records (or that guy in Primus). The songs don't require it. So why would anyone bring in a ringer for just some basic, meat and potatoes style bass lines? Or need to? I've seen some early vids of the Crue (Devore 1983 Us Festival is an example), and it didn't sound like the bass playing was so completely off time or being done by someone who would be incapable of playing the bass lines on the record. So maybe someone can tell me why a producer would bring in a session guy to play what are admittedly plebian bass runs. Was Nikki so completely drug addled in the studio he couldn't play as well as he did at Devore in '83? And yeah, I know, in the studio you need to get it perfect but it was well known that a lot of parts on 80's metal records were 'comped', where the final 'take' was cut up bits from different takes of each individual instrument (I heard either Werman or Hill say this on one of these Full In Bloom interviews). I guess from my perspective as a musician and a rock fan, this entire kerfuffle just doesn't make sense.
Yes to me the case in point was the US Festival footage, Sixx was playing the lines just fine and in fact Mars was messing up more ironically
@@themadmattster9647 I heard Mick Mars' mess ups, too. I guess the band were all super nervous, as they apparently hadn't played to a crowd that big before. But it was a good show nonetheless.
@@themadmattster9647 I was actually watching some of that footage last night, & Nikki seemed to be playing fine, for the most part. I think live, he eschews any "flourishes" that may be on the albums, & sticks to main parts of the basslines.