When the Satanists vs major religions episode of Middle Ground came out, it caused quite the stir. We hope this commentary by John gives you some insight into what making this episode was like! Let us know your thoughts. 👀
Please do more of these! Loved the behind the scenes insight. Maybe in the future you might invite the people back for a type of after interview such as this?
Omg yess please, I am biased by suggesting this but I would love to see this idea with Muslims because I noticed a sparking difference between us Muslims in the Middle East and the Muslims they casted in their videos like spectrum and odd man out even. especially regarding how well informed the Muslims they casted are, some of the ones in odd man out did not know information we take in first grade here. That was a really interesting difference for me to observe, I am not shaming them or anything of course.
@@RaghadAmr I actually see that criticism of their muslim cast members quite a lot in the comments, and I get that they are trying to show an ordinary person but I also think it's important to represent what the actual stances of that religion is. I mean I'm coming at it from a Christian perspective, but most of the American Christians which they cast have a very different interpretation of major beliefs and texts than my communities views in Australia. I just think it would be really interesting to explore, and I would love to watch that video idea with different religions, I think it would be really interesting and informative.
muslims and buddhists should definitely do this. islam is represented well from central africa all the way up to sub-saharan africa, through the middle east, west asia and turkic states, all through south-east asia and malaya, in particular malaysia, brunei and indonesia. buddhism is represented well throughout all of west asia, and indian, tibetan, thai, vietnamese, japanese, malaysian, etc. buddhism which often fall into theravada, mahayana, vajrayana, as well as tibetan and some other outliers from nepal and inner tibet are all vastly different and have many different opinions and beliefs. not to mention the large black islamic community in the states.
@@chickadeepng they're not very diverse. they only range in conservativism. and catholicism has some of their own beliefs but that's because catholicism has kind of been it's own faction of christianity.
I was really happy about John actually telling Richard-lael to stop interrupting Shawn because the directors have never really done that before and sometimes it just felt really disrespectful and at some point annoying so thank you for that John.
I didn't exactly see that Richard-Leal was being intentionally rude or disrespectful. Rather, I saw it as some people can't wait to talk while others can't wait to listen. He had a strong opinion and was perhaps expecting an argument over his personal choice of religion. Thus, it came off as argumentative, rude, and disrespectful... If anything it was disruptive, but perhaps (again) not intentional because upon John's reminder to let Shawn and Ragini finish he always did.
@@i.harris9236 Not to mention jubilee really edited the video to make the satanist seem rude. The girl from the satanist side made a whole tik tok abt it.
you and i are like my buttcheeks after all the shit that goes between us we always get back together yeah I feel like maybe it would have been best to choose 3 practices that are opposite of the major religions but don’t necessarily clash each other. Like a satanist, a Wiccan (witch), and an atheist or something along those lines.
Personally I think it was good as satanism is so personal and it mostly differs a lot from person to person just in what satanism as a religion is. At least my opinion.
The problem with Amr is that he is representing a huge religion. Even though I respect him a lot, he wasn't well equipped to defend hundreds of millions of people.
Exactly. Coming from a muslim, it did not feel like Amr was representing Islam, more representing himself. There are points he made that contradicts our religion
My point exactly, I would have loved if he presented Islam's point of view on the story of Adam and eve and heaven, because if he just said how the story is narrated in the Quran it would strongly go against the satanists' most compelling argument (why would God withhold information from adam and eve).. But I can definitely understand what he went through while filming that video, the dialogue was intense and at the end of the day he represented Islam beautifully in my opinion
Yah I agree! I get that 'out there' personalities is what makes the content but I think you can be 'out there' and totally expressive of your opinion while still being respectful, unlike Richard. I still feel like he could've gotten his points across without being disrespectful
I feel it was too much tension and agression in this episode. I mean Shawn was kinda afraid of sharing his opinion because of Richard-lael, it was almost always them against each other. I just wish there wasnt such a "us vs them" scenario.
@@user-dq8km4zt7f you're right. Not many people know how to have fruitful respectful discussions anymore and it shows. Either you litterally fight with people or you lock yourself in a social media bubble where you only come in contact with people with the same opinions as you
Actually, the comments criticizing the Muslim kid had some truth attached to them. One of the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH was to never misquote him or misrepresent the religion of Islam. What ticked most people off was when he said hell wasn't a fire even though it's clearly stated, and when he said Satan wasn't bad. It's fine if he doesn't believe in it, but to misrepresent such a large community, it's a sin in Islam. I think he was a bit shy as well, which definitely didn't help his case.
This was very well stated! I am a Christian, by the way (probably could be described as a sort of a fundamentalist), and felt similarly about two Christians that have been on so far, the young man on the Atheists vs. Christians Middle Ground debate and the young woman who was a 'secret Christian' in the '6 Satanists and 1 Secret Christian' Odd One Out video. Though being called a Christian, at the end of the video she admitted she's in a process of 'heavily deconstructing' - which basically means she's 1 1/2 feet out the door of her professed faith and religion! The young man i mentioned was quite a bit more like Amr; kindhearted and well-meaning...but deeply flawed in his orthodoxy. In the same video there was a man with pretty sound orthodoxy who was very impolite and disrespectful, interrupting others and assuming the reasons for their answers before they could give them, greatly stifling the freedom and flow of the overall conversation. Consequently in the comments section, the young man was regarded as a positive model of Christianity. Unfortunately John is probably right. People like Amr and this young man i'm mentioning are probably quite an average representation of a postmodern thinking practitioner of their particular belief from their generation. As i considered this i began to feel less offended by the young man man and more of an urgent desire to properly educate men like him. The fact that he thinks and acts the way he does is not entirely his own fault: he is indoctrinated with postmodern and pragmatic thinking by not only the world outside, but also (i think i can speak with some confidence about both of our religions) from a large amount of those who claim to be within the faith community, including those with positions of authority (which includes parents). In short, i would agree with you that these young men i mentioned misrepresented each of our faiths, but unfortunately it's likely that they accurately represented the average youth and young adults of our population. And that gives me great cause for concern. Anyway, i wanted to thank you for sharing your thoughts, and i hope mine are a benefit to you as well.
@@jeremiahsherlock9144 Thank you so much for your comments. There is a point to be made that those in these videos represent Muslims and not Islam, Christians not Christianity, etc. However, it would be best to get the most knowledgeable in a religious discipline, because you want to showcase a belief, not ideas from someone who may not know enough about the religion. Although I will say that at least in my experience (living across the Muslim world), I've met a lot of people who still have the basic tenets of the religion down, even if some of the deeper ideas are influences by secular/post-modern ideas and values like liberalism and the ideologies that sprang from it like feminism, nationalism, etc. However, a belief in something like hell being a fire has no reason to be curbed or modernized, or eroded from the religion due to modernity, so it feels weird that someone would take that position. It would make sense if he maybe took a few less strict opinions from Islamic law due to the influence of the modernist hegemony over the world, but belief in hell being fire isn't like that.
At the end of the day I don't think it's really about religion. It's about being a good human being. And if you are a good human being on a basis of your religion (or non-religion) I respect that religion. Because I respect you.
I love this so much and agree with it as well. Being a religious person myself, a Jehovah’s Witness, being so criticized for simply hearing what I practice is insane. I remember hearing from someone I respect, “ In the end, I don’t care what you look like or what you are I just hope that you were/are a good person.” And even though there are millions of people that don’t have the same beliefs as me I respect them for being the good human that they are. People think immediately I’m homophobic but I try to let everyone know I respect everyone for the person they are, I may disagree with their beliefs but that’s something different.
@@coletrainhetrick you don't even know what satanism is. tell this to the christians that attend anti-lgbtq+ marches, anti-immigration marches, anti-feminism marches. satanism is a very left winged religion and the church of satan has advocated so much for minority rights in every aspect. do you know the 11 laws of earth in the satanic church? if u don't then read them. satanists are good people and just because u see the word satan doesn't mean they sacrifice babies and goats.
He is the epitome of mainstream modern Christianity. He didn't want to offend anyone or appear strong. He probably thinks Islam and Hinduism are good too.
he wasn't attacked which was painfully evident from the video. he agreed to do the show 24hrs before, but he's been a Christian his entire life and a pastor at that which makes him an "expert" for lack of a better word.....what more preparation would he have needed to do something like this? As John stated, he wanted the reactions of participants to be organic and as Gus said above, Shawn is quite literally what mainstream Christianity looks like. How the episode played out was perfect in my view
Yo, I know you from your star wars content and jkp/n. Man, I always loved seeing you play social deduction games you were the most logical and strategic.
I just realized watching it through again that no one believes in good and evil except shawn, however they all think they are good people, which is very interesting. I loved hearing John's commentary and watching the episode. Maybe an episode on polytheism in the future?
@@tij_ana_ No lol, we just don't believe in the dichotomy of good and evil. It's a loaded term, it implies you're either one or the other. The best way that I can put it is- morality is a spectrum of shades of gray, rather than black and white. I believe there are elements of good and evil within everyone, and what matters is how much.
@@tij_ana_ I'm just trying to explain the thought process behind the arguments. I still believe in a concept of good, and a concept of evil, just not "good and evil", which is kind of a loaded term. It's moreso about semantics to me.
I’m not sure about evil but things are definitely good. I could cook some soup and it may taste good or bad, but it won’t taste evil. I sort of believe in evil but not in a supernatural sense. I believe pedophiles are evil, for example. They either r@pe children or have the desire to. Yet they’d often describe their feelings as loving and consensual (they’re not; children can’t consent). I can see why someone would take the stance “you’re evil by my standards, but my standards are not universally held”. Who decides who/what is evil and who/what is merely bad? Many religious people would say god, but then people from within that religion will disagree on what god says and then they’ll also disagree between religions. As someone who doesn’t believe in god, all of these stances are just those of humans and therefore no more inherently worthy of being accepted than anyone else’s; in fact, since they’re often the views from a society vastly different from our current world, you could argue they’re less relevant views. You have philosophers who’ve been debating for centuries what is and is not ethical, and they never reached a universal answer we could all agree to. If someone is born devoid of empathy and is tortured until they develop a distorted view of humanity (maybe they’d been born with empathy but lost it after a childhood of neglect and torture), then they go on to commit mass murder, are they evil? Are they evil for how they were born? Is it being tortured that made them evil? Should we be sympathetic to this murderer? What if they killed people because they thought humanity was evil? Were they actually good then? Maybe they were good by their standards. Maybe you think my favourite soup tastes gross. Maybe it’s bad to you, and good to me. Maybe these people are good like nice soup; it’s subjective and the opposite to being “bad” rather than the opposite to being “evil”. The existence of evil soup is not a requirement for some good soup to exist. Maybe that’s the same with people, at least by some people’s standards.
Something essential to know is with the garden of eden is there was no knowledge to be had from eating the apple. The belief is that the only reason the devil wanted adam and eve to eat the apple was to defy God. The reason God did not want them to eat the fruit was just to see if they would trust him, not because he wanted to keep them in the dark.
without satan they would have been kept in the dark their whole lives. also god should have known that they would eat it because he knows everything. also he should have just thanos clicked satan away if he thought satan was so bad in the first place. also god shouldn't have punished the entirety of humanity with sin and suffering because eve bit the fruit. why should we suffer. it was their mistake. what a merciful god! love that!
@@diva3713 this is the exact reason why I don't think i can be christian any more. God is all knowing. He created the devil knowing that hell would also be created. Every time he creates a person he knows whether or not they will suffer forever for eternity after their life on earth, yet still proceeds to create them. Some people argue that you need the devil to tempt people and see if they trust God. But if he loves humans so much as he claims, why does he watch them go to hell and suffer? He'd watch majority of the population go to hell if it meant finding a few that really love him. Just sounds cruel and selfish to me.
@Adaeze Njoku issues like these can definitely be hard to wrap your head around. As a Christian to understand this questions I ask myself why God does anything. The answer is for His own glory. Which at first glance might seem selfish but when you consider that God is the only thing that is truly good, the only one worthy of glory, it makes more sense (at least to me). Without the fall, there would be no need for salvation and the gift of salvation one of the main reason we know God loves us (Romans 5:8) and one of the reasons why we glorify God. Although we all inherited sin from Adam we can all inherit the kingdom of heaven through Jesus (Romans 5:15), if we repent and accept him as our saviour and turn from our sin. I don’t want to make this comment too long so I’m not addressing some of the specific points you raised (I’d love to potentially later on) but ultimately it’s important to note that God is love. And love encompasses justice which is why hell exists (because he is so good he punishes sin), but we have all sinned and deserve hell... so God shows us his love by offering us away to escape hell and we are all free to accept this gift of salvation (Romans 6:23). But finally, God doesn’t need to “find those who really love him” he saves all who come to Him (Acts 2:21) This is a kinda long but I just thought I’d share my beliefs :)
@@annat.2777 so you're telling me the most loving being in all of existence sends hundreds of billions of people to hell for all eternity for the simple act of not believing in him? this is not love. if i was god, i woulf not send hundreds of billions to hell. what about the hindu monks that devouted their whole lives to do nothing but act kindly to all? they would still be sent to hell for all eternity because they didn't hear about who god is? i'm sorry but this just isn't logical. and a truly merciful god wouldn't punish ALL OF MANKIND because one person bit a fruit. he knew that adam would if he's omniscient. that is stupidity and unmerciful. this is why is left the presbyterian church a few months ago after almost 15 years, and i am so glad i have converted to buddhism.
I loved the commentary on the middle ground and I'd love to see more. Not really related but I'm very interested to see a video on how the casting works especially in middle ground. Who do you choose, how do you choose them and what questions do you ask in order to cast them?
I understand that "strongly expressive" people would make interesting videos to film but firstly, not many people in your videos have been extremely shy to the point where it is hard include them in the video (although some earlier videos have had a few people who had very minimal footage time). Secondly I think the problem with when cutting others off all the time while they are sharing, people tend to get annoyed, which fill them with emotions, which stop people from thinking clearly and critically. Now I understand that you appreciated Richard-lael's views and you are some what defending a guest of your show as he was quite evidently called out a lot in the comments, but I disagree with what you said in this video. I think having a lot expressive of people who don't know when to wait their turn to speak like a respectable adult, will stray people away from having intelligent conversation and lead to shallow, emotional arguments. Having a safe environment to speak your mind is what I think provides a more real conversation between everyone, evidently shown in all your videos.
I disagree with the stopping of comments saying people are disrespectful. Because there has been people in your videos that come off very condescending and disrespectful. There is a difference on being reactive and being disrespectful. And some people in the video were being disrespectful. To add on I dont think people are mad with people being confrontational in their beliefs, but there is way to do it that still respects the other side.
he came off more eager than rude. ik he was rude to interrupt but i think most western non-christians are sick of hearing about christianity and have a lot to say. and clearly this is something richard-lael is very passionate about. most satanists are passionate about religion and would have a lot of questions and things to say to a presbyterian preacher.
squishy ponyo Completely agree. I personally enjoyed Richard-Lael, and I think he brought some really great ideas up, and was just very eager to communicate how he felt.
@@Tobi-pp8io yes but i think it has to do with his over-the-top and dramatic personality. personally i don't think he came off very rude, his interruptions were a tad annoying but it wasn't a big deal, and i think people just overreacted over nothing.
squishy ponyo I disagree, put yourself in people he discussed with shoes, he was being condescendante at times and rude (sale for Lois). Personally if it was not for the way he treated others I would have enjoy his over the top personality.
I feel like they could have made it into a 3 part series like religion vs satanism where in each episode its a different religion but like 3 satanist vs 3 people of the same religion, not 3 different religion, because the 3 religions that are supposedly on the same side also have alot of disagreements with each other, so it is very hard for them to back each other up and portray solid points, wherein, the satanist sides is almost overpowering? but anyway i really hope you could do this again but like the 3 vs 3 kind so that each religion could state their points clearly.
I agree because it seems like satanists mainly have an issue with Christianity so im curious to hear them in conversation with all Muslims, or all Jews, or all Hindus.
It is a little disappointing to hear “we’re only here for the conflict”. I would venture to say that most of us are here for the discussion...normal, everyday conversations about the cool topics picked out. Try not to go only for the conflict/ “big theatrical moments”, but the entire conversation
Yeah, Jubilee has always put up this front of it all being about empathizing with one another and that the point of this series is to discuss topics and find a middle ground. Now he's saying we shouldn't be mad at people being rude and disrespectful and pretty much admitting that they just want arguments and drama. People like that satanist literally shut down conversation by interrupting, being rude and ultimately making people hesitant to actually discuss their beliefs, which is the opposite of what they claim to want to achieve.
10:35 - 10:45 "We are here for the conflict" does not sound like the purpose of a series called middle ground You need to respect for each other to be able to find a middle ground and that is why so many in the comments (including me) criticised the disrespectfulness of the two satanists throughout the video
Like he said at the end of the video, if everyone we kind and opened minded, and passive you wouldn’t get much information about people’s views. just them trying not to offend anyone
I'm a little confused by the whole "we chose every day Muslims/Christians/Hindus you see in your daily life" when the Satanists are not ones that I see in daily life, they are quite obviously leaders or well-informed people of their communities. I have met Satanists who look completely different than the ones shown on the screen in daily life, who you could look at and not know what they believe. I also think that is why they dominated the conversation, because the more mediocre / slightly informed people (everyone on the major religions side) did not know how to have a conversation with them, without being refuted or cut off. You wanted to mix chemicals to have a reaction, but you only added strong chemicals on one side, not the other? The conversation could have been much more interesting, but alas, it's too late. You said you wanted to find people who are not humble and meek and want to say everything on their minds to have that impactful conversation, that's what makes it interesting, but..... you didn't do that on the other side...? kinda contradictory, no?
you're so right lol ive never ever seen any Islamic student of knowledge who studied under scholars in any western media so im not really surprised lol
comedown machine i hope they dont think i’m a “hater” like that other video... i love jubilee videos and am always kinda disappointed with the representation of muslims because everyone else gets a leader for their group, not even in the “do all muslims think the same video” was there an imam or sheikh or scholar... i wish someone under mufti menk or actually anyone really was called on. I know there is a big community near LA
That's an excellent point Hawa! You did kind of catch me playing both sides there so point taken. I will say that I had a few interested people on the side of MR who opted out once they learned that they'd be speaking with Satanists. Perhaps this sheds light on why the cast members on that side ended up being more mild in temperament? This also points out that not all episodes have the possibility of operating on a level playing field-there's bound to be a tilt one direction. MR are speaking from the majority perspective with arguably much more at stake, which determines the type of person willing to take that seat, and Satanists were operating from the minority end, which gives them a lot more to gain and also determines the type of person willing to claim that label. You see this dynamic happen in some of our other episodes as well-which is pretty interesting! Maybe I should've said this in the video, oh well. I appreciate the thoughtful point and will continue to cast more thoughtfully for you guys :)
About God not wanting Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, I see it as the same thing as a parent not letting their 8yo watch an R-rated movie. Adam and Eve were His children, and He wanted to protect them from something they weren’t ready for.
Luchie Chibwe: Ok, probably not. Maybe a better analogy for it would be parents telling their young children not to play with lighters and other tools that could be dangerous when not used properly.
@@popcornenthusiast hmmm, but in this case god didn't give them the full picture. He said you can have anything else but if you eat from this tree you will die. Which was false, so when the serpent came and told them the objective truth: that the fruit would give them knowledge of good and evil they tested it out. Now if god had told them the full truth wouldn't they have been able to make an informed decision? Plus why didn't god just kill them instead since those were the terms he gave them. Why punish them and even worse transfer that punishment to generation after generation for a sin we didn't commit?
its weird that lois would use genesis as a reference in favor of satan, but the tree is called the tree of knowledge of good and evil and she said she doesn’t believe in good and evil. I’m not really religious, but I think if you’re going to use scripture to argue in your favor, you can’t nitpick what you want to use, especially when those details are from the same story
They don't actually believe in the Bible, they use it as more of a tool to reason with people, beacuse the majority of people in America feel that the Bible is a holy book, or at the very least a book of good morals
lois said in the video that theres two sides of the story the bible was just leaned and i supose a bit "bias" to gods perspective so she wasnt nitpicking she was just stating a whole different story and i respect that even know im a christian
Hey, so I am one of the people that decided to not comment on amr's "lack of knowledge" on the original video because I saw that the dialogue was very intense and I can see why he didn't come forward and speak in a lot of instances. But after hearing your comment on the commenters, I agree with you that he presented Islam beautifully but I just want to clear out that our frustration was due to the fact that the idea of Satan and good and evil is such a huge part of Islam and one of the few things we are not divided on at all considering that there are disagreements between Muslims on a lot of things and Islam as a religion has so much to say about this so we felt rather underrepresented, I hope you see where my fellow Muslims came from.
According to one of the guest. Shawn the Christian dude was not really ready for this conversation and needed to take many breaks and was on the verge of tears
Because something said got to him. He knows inside that no matter what he does or doesn't do, it doesn't matter with his God. Many are called but few are chosen. Unless he was born incapable of sinning like Jesus was, he is going to sin in some aspect, and God is going to get him for it.
Yeah, you like Richard. But acknowledging that he went too far doesn't change the fact that he did. Satanists outnumbered and butchered everyone else in this. Telling people their legit points "aren't very nice", is ridiculous. You should re-do the episode
@@starberrysweetee1495 to give a minority a platform to bash others doesn't inspire sympathy towards them. This was supposed to be an educational religious discussion, not a fight.
As a Christian, I feel like people look at my faith and hate it because it’s what’s on top. It gets attacked a lot. And you described it as a narrow mindset, and Jesus literally calls the path of the Christian the “narrow path/gate.” I don’t know, I’ve learned about a lot of religions and I still stand by mine. And I think people should just respect it.
It is very interesting to hear your perspective. As a christian from the Carribean, a conversation like this in the video could not happen. In my country, the satanist would be ridiculed and discriminated against because my country was founded on Christian principles. However, it hurts to see that many Americans call us backwards countries because of what we stand for. Although I stand firmly by my faith in Jesus Christ, I cannot participate in discrimination of any kind to people who many believe different from me.
As a Christian, in a place where christians are a minority, most people don't hate or have really negative views on christians as a group, just the fundamentalist American ones. Every other christian group seems kinda chill when compared with what you guys are up to lol. Especially the racism and islamophobia.
@@adroitdroid5989 I mean where I live (California), people aren't islamophobic anymore. I also don't really think we're necessarily more hateful here in America, it's just that there are a good amount of us that do say harsh things on social media and start fights that don't end well, which obviously isn't a good way to handle things. And social media then blows it out of proportion from there. Also there are a lot of groups that form that call themselves Christian, yet do not represent themselves as loving and are often the ones that get a super bad rap online. A lot of those groups aren't even reading the Bible or showing love to the world as they're supposed to. Then the Christians that actually try to exemplify God's love and go to churches that preach the real deal have to do damage control. It sheds a bad light on all of us. But there are tons of Christians out there who just stay in their own lane and adhere to God's teachings, even in America.
Also about the Christian people doing great for society, Sir Issac Newton was a literal Bible obsessed Christian, He spent years of his life going through just the bible, he thought it had a secret code from God.
Please do a "do all asexuals think the same" but with at least one Sex favorable asexual in it, we get little to no representation and actually get hate within the ace community :( And love these commentary videos, they clear up a lot of questions, please so more of these!
I agree, I personally am ace leaning heavily towards apothisexual, but the asexual and aromantic communities are on a spectrum and you barely see any representation and I think it would be great to finally get some.
@@alexvano9718 very true. I feel like especially for aces who aren't sex repulsed it is hard because the little ace representation that is out there is that of an apothisexual. And while that is a big part of the community it is by far not all of it and I wish to see Jubilee show that :)
PLEASE READ THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. There’s a difference between opinionated, strong personalities and being unapologetically disrespectful. These ideas are conflated so often. As someone who loves honesty and not shying away from what we believe, I also hate it when people use being honest as an excuse to be unnecessarily rude. That weekend comment is what instantly signaled to me that he wasn’t looking for middle ground, he was looking for a gotcha.
While there were many interesting topics brought up in the original video, I'm going to have to disagree and say that the two vocal satanists were being pretty rude at times. Not only the amount of times they would interrupt, but also the tone of voice Richard would use got very condescending at times. I think the satanists brought up multiple good points but they sometimes did so in a way that was not conducive to an actual dialog, every time Richard specifically would try to make a mic drop moment it was very smug and was usually an attempt to leave little room for conversation other that a simple disagreement. You say that is how the guy always is but being a generally rude or condescending person does not mean that it's suddenly fine to be those things. The hyper focus on fundamental christian ideology in the satanists arguments also did not make for good conversation. They rarely addressed the other two religions present but also there are many Christians who do not take the old testament, that they often referred to, literally. As far as I am aware most Christians are not fundamentalists so attacking that view and attributing it to the people present who gave no indication that they shared those beliefs, came off as disingenuous to me. Overall I wasn't a fan of that episode, not because of the topic or most of the points brought up, but because the casting for the most part was not great.
Give them a bit of a break. There was no easy way of knowing how smug or condescending a person will be when arguing and casting people is a long tedious time consuming process.
@@koutaconnor9453 I would if it was actually evident that they were trying to keep things civil and productive but in this case, there is little evidence of them attempting to do so. There is hardly and moderation going on when it was very much needed here, and the Dracula guy (who I don't remember the name of) was on previous videos they had done, so they were aware of his personality. It's not like it came out of nowhere either, he acted similarly then, and it was obvious to me that he would not be a good choice for a debate style format such as this. This also wasn't the first one of these videos where they brought in people who obviously had no interest in listening to any differing opinions. It's happened enough times for me to expect a slightly better vetting process to try and avoid situations like this one that bomb because of rude, disinterested, or disingenuous participants.
Like I get the passion behind religions and the extreme emotions but having to act a certain way in order to be perceived and for the audience not to feel offended by their presence is so artificial and takes us a million steps backwards,, and I’m not talking about basic respect, that is fine but the people r offended by them giggling to eachother Bc they can’t decide if they agree or not? Why does that anger so many people
@@coolgirl-hv7uc Is this supposed to be a passive aggressive insult? Are you really trying to say everyone who criticized that video just cant handle teasing, instead of looking at the fundamental flaws in the approaches of both parties and the producers to make that video? I suggest you actually read what I wrote in the original comment if that is what you are suggesting, because the flaws of that production run a lot deeper than "people r offended by them giggling to eachother".
Brilliantly put. It does surprise me to see the amount of people commenting just tearing into the folk in the video...failing to see how difficult it could be to articulate your views in that situation - seems like they're missing the whole point. Keep up the great work and I love what you do as a company!
I get that you want people with strong opinions, and I think that's great. But having one person who interrupts others constantly, can't let anyone finish a thought or get a full sentence in without being told by a producer to step back, and overall seems hell-bent on dominating the conversation just seems counter-productive to finding "middle ground," which I think a lot of us thought was the purpose of the series. Richard-lael was articulate and confident and well-spoken. But he wasn't really listening to anyone else. At that point, you no longer have a conversation. But then, maybe the point isn't to have a conversation or really open up dialogue. Maybe the point is just to put people with opposing view points in the room and see who can be the loudest-but that seems kind of weird for a series called middle ground, idk
Right!! It makes for an entertaining and interesting video that sparks more conversation but how productive and true to the series’ title is it really? With the personalities in the room that make it difficult to progress or even have an understanding of eachother. Maybe in this representation it shows that it may be difficult to find a middle ground among the two groups but i think that it definitely depends on the types of people in the room and how open minded they are.
I'm not sure if this is just an american idea of religion which I'm not familiar with, or just me, but I would never police someone else's version of Christianity. In fact most people in my life who are Christian are on a very broad spectrum of views from very dogmatic to very spiritual, and we can often spark discussion coming from a place of mutual curiosity and respect. I kinda felt like this video was a bit of a bash.
I especially like middle ground because it encourages confrontation. Irl, I tend to be so intrigued by people who express more extreme point of views, but they often get cut off or not taken seriously in conversations. Thank you for the great content.
It's not accurate representation if you don't have the basic knowledge of what they're representing which what would create more ignorance and misinformation. The criticisms were mostly about the once who cast them and how they didn't handle it respectfully i.e. letting certain individual to interrupt others, then preach here about "not being respectful" just for criticism. Hypocritic much?!
I can’t help but notice how Amr and Ragini barely got to talk or relate most of the time and I think that’s because satanism seems to me like the anti christianity. Like when they talked about whether or not satan is evil, I didn’t not understand what they were talking about since in Islam, we have a different telling of his story. And I can’t blame Amr for not being able to express an Islamic point of view when he lacked the time and knowledge. It’s easy for christians and satanists to argue and counter-argue when their ideas of religion are similar but their stance is opposite.
The conversation about Genesis: to combat what the Satanists were saying, yes God did say to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge. However in Genesis, it talks about another tree that a lot of people forget about, it’s call the tree of power something like that. Basically what was supposed to happen was when the serpent (devil) came and told them to eat of the fruit they were supposed to refuse and then they were to eat of the tree that is forgotten a lot and have God like powers, we are created in His image which includes things that He could do, and then God would let us know we have defeated the Devil and then he was going to allow them to eat of the tree of knowledge and then we were supposed to live in harmony with evil and wars and pain and without dying. While being able to know the things we know now, and flourish. Yet that didn’t happen because Adam didn’t even relay the message to Eve properly, resulting in her eating the fruit. And then Adam still ate the fruit even though God told him Himself not to. But he did see Eve eat it and she didn’t die immediately so ofc you could be like “oh well if she didn’t die then it’s okay” when really it’s not. Either way long story short now we have to deal with evil and wars and painful births and dying and illness
@@hawarahman3825 ohh, ahah my b didn't really get that part, but I agree with your request considering there are many different christians out there with denominations and non-denominational, the other video was more like religious & less-religious people.
I don’t know if anyone felt like this (I’m Catholic btw), but I just couldn’t watch the episode. I felt too disturbed by the Satanists. I only watched like two minutes.
@Speaking Truth If their so kind why do they purposely pick a the mostly highly offense figure to Muslims, Christians, (and I think Hindus) which make up about 3 billion of the world population just to anger them
I had to really forced myself to get to the half way mark. Not only the satanists made it hard to watch but it also feels like the video is bias in favor with them. Idk, its rough.
I'm Christian and I can totally tell that a lot of people in the world are starting to like the Devil more and it's sad. I feel like even the Director favored the Satanists more. My question is why did he decide to bring Shawn on the show just 24hrs before filming? I feel like The director purposefully wanted the Shawn to be unprepared. At the end of the Day in the bible it says "Every Knee shall bow" Jesus is King
It was really nice to watch John break down all the elements of the original video. All of the topics covered in the original video were so thought-provoking and really important questions! Sometimes the people in these videos have such a strong presence and it can be difficult to fully grasp their points of these big ideas that they're trying to convey and articulate. It's nice to watch this breakdown video where we can kind of digest the topics in a different way.
Also, I agree with John's point about pushing back against the notion of disliking people just because they have strong opinions and personalities. Every person who is on the show is literally being asked to be reactive and articulate and defend their opinions. It's okay to disagree with their message, but it would be more gracious, as viewers, for us not to attack the people who are sharing their opinions.
@@lydiabrowning3382 I think it wasn't about them having strong opinions and more so about the way that they expressed their strong opinions in a disrespectful manner... I think there have been some brilliant middle ground videos before, where there was conflict and very strong opinions being expressed, but never (I believe) in a disrespectful manner as this particular video...
@@asah100 I agree that there have definitely been some people on Middle Ground who have been disrespectful communicators (& it's totally okay to point it out!). I suppose what I'm thinking about is how many people comment negatively about people who are just overly excited about their strong opinion and then come across in a negative life because of it. In some ways, there is a lot of empathy rooted in the ability to justify why some people struggle in their communication styles when being put in a situation like that. I just think it's important to consider the reasons why we (commentators) interpret the episodes in certain ways. People who are plain disrespectful should be called out, but maybe not in a way that assumes their behavior is overly representative of their character in its entirety.
Regarding the Adam and Eve story. I think this can be compared to leaving a bowl of candy in front of kids. By leaving them alone in the room with the candy they are left with what their conscience and morals decide to do. You want them to respect you, to wait for you to be in their presence for them to be able to eat the candy. You want to enjoy it together under the conditions that the parent is watching over their child. The last thing you want is for them to ignore your rules and disobey you. Not because candy is poisonous but because you want them to understand what a genuine bond of respect and loyalty is.
I like how you gave a quick summary of every person in this video, because left to me I think all of them represent their religions accurately. From the satanist side we literally see a spectrum of “extremes”in character for the belief, and in major religions I believe they are optimally competent- not representative of negative stereotypes that come with each faith.
Oh dear sweet jesus, full convo would be a mess, even more tense than the episode came across, the conversation veered into really weird tangents like slavery and Hitler and gays improving the neighborhood
abi kinda. Satanist are like the squares of atheism. All satanist are atheist but not all atheist are satanist. Most atheist don’t even know that satanist is even a thing. So wouldn’t category them as one. It would still be more beneficial to have both atheist and satanist.
Let's get this straight -- Richard is NOT a strong person. He is a BULLY. Period. And you are irresponsible for condoning his behavior and having him back on the show multiple times. He's probably one of the worst people who's ever been on your channel.
John, you are so articulate and soft-spoken! I would love to participate in one of these being a Christian. Honestly i just high-key want everyone to feel loved hahaha dude God is so good and he is love! But he is also JUSTICE, right? If there wasn't a right or wrong what would be the impediment of one crossing the street and murdering your mother? The "hope" that they have good morals? "If" God is the creator of the universe, which I believe he is, and he is the embodiment of love and also the embodiment of justice, don't you think it you make a lot of sense for him to dictate rules and a reward or penalty for abiding to them or not? The fact that God has given us free will is also such a huge point! We all have been given the gift to make whatever decisions we want. If you want to love him back or not, that is 100% optional! But the authority that God has is not made optional, or else he... wouldn't have the power to be God, or even "a god", if you will. The establishment of his authority over heavens and Earth are part of what make him a "big deal", if you try to delute that, he becomes an "influencer", sure, but that's not who or what he is. Wanting to share his power with yourself as a human or with other "gods" is immediately sharing that place of authority with the biggest and most important thing that ever existed, God, but it makes sense that our human nature would seek that power (the bible says that a lot hehe), and that is what is so appealing about "Satan"/Satanism, right? The fact that he offers us the chance to be the gods of our own lives, just like the bible says, no? In my opinion, if we give into our human nature, we will seek things that will never fully satisfy us, like power, attention, validation, success, etc... but if we seek those things only from God and seek to understand and please his heart, we will be more mindful of how to love people better (because God teaches us that so well!), and be more in touch with our original design! That is, who we were born to be. Not as in destiny, but as in a version of ourselves where the anxiety and depression that this world burdens us with can't take a hold of our lives because we are understanding why we were created and why we are worthy of being called sons and daughters of the most high king: Because to our cores, we are LOVED. By a God that is good enough to share revelations and miracles with us while we are here on Earth (which i have witnessed with my own eyes!), and also JUST enough to not turn a blind eye to wrongdoings/"evil". There's also no need to guess what his moral compass is at all! It's all in the bible, which we believe to be his living word! Yayyyyy! Sorry i rambled hahaha, but very interesting comments were made John, you did a beautiful job as usual! :) We could totally have a conversation about this if you want 😊 just let me know! xx priscilla
I think one thing about the satanists was that they spoke more critically of major religions rather than speaking about what satanism actually is and what foundations of belief is has. It sometimes feels like satanism is born out of anti-religion as opposed to having its own facets of a belief system. Edit: Anti-Christianity I should say
When he was talking about the perspective that people tend to see things from in the United States ( 13:25 ), I honestly felt so proud of my country as I'm from Trinidad and Tobago and we celebrate most of the major events of the main religions nationwide. For example, for Diwali, the hindu festival of lights, everyone celebrates it in one way or another.
The Chapter from *The* *Quran* about *'other* *religions'* that _'Amr'_ refers to Is Chapter 109 called Al-Kafirun (The non-believers) Translation is 1) Say: O unbelievers! 2) I do not serve that which you serve, 3) Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve: 4) Nor am I going to serve that which you serve, 5) Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve: 6) You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
Kimberly L no, one of the cast members made tiktoks explaining the situation. Most of it was edited to make Shaun look more put together and the religious people look a little better
I love that you guys are speaking about these videos, it really gives more insight into what happened rather than a consumer basing it off a snippet of a conversation. I also would love to see something about the vegan Odd Man Out video because I know it caused lots of heat 😊
this reaction video coming straight from you really puts in perspective why you guys, jubilee, make these videos. like you were saying at the end of the video, yes it’s all about the discussion but, it comes back around to the actual people themselves and them being as authentic as they can be. you guys are great at what you do!
My biggest problem with this video is that it didnt feel like a middle ground or a discussion. Instead of the two sides educating the others and talking about their differing beliefs, how I viewed it, it felt like it was the satanist attacking the other religions and pointing out why they were wrong to believe that. They did bring up interesting questions, but did it as such that they insulted the other religions, especially christianity. Richard-Lael came at it as such an attack to prove he was better than the rest for what he beliefs. His backhand compliment was complete disrespect for Shawn religion and beliefs. This video should not be called middle ground if you as directors, creators, and producers are looking for an experiment to cause chaos. Be more respectful. I'm not attacking satanist, I wished to learned more about them from this video but that is not what I got. I felt like they judge the other religious and thought they were better than for what they believe, the same issue I have with some Christian's who believe that too! I wish it was more of a dialogue than it was and came away from this video disgusted, frustrated, and wished Jubilee (who I 8/10 times love their videos) did better.
About driving a car being evil - I think being evil is knowing the bad consequences of your actions but performing them regardless of that. So, if you don’t know you’re doing something wrong, then I wouldn’t name it evil, just maybe bad.
Y’all really need to get some apologists on here, it’s interesting to hear everyday people’s take on things but there are people (even on yt) who spend their whole careers researching and pondering things like this
I love your channel and the idea behing it. This Middle Ground was the only one that I was unable to watch till the end... I started felling soooo bad because some of the affirmations about my God and my faith were brought in a so sarcastic and disrespectful way... usually, in circumstances like this (when i feel like the word of God was misrepresented), i would like to participate in it and discuss. But i think that Shawn was really humble and wise. And i don't think i would be able to finish filming this video without crying. You can disrespect me and my thoughts. Even my religion and the institution behind it. But talking with such a disrespect about my God... it hurts really bad...
Aah yes! I feel you! I assume you're a Christian. I am a Muslim but I feel the same way about disrespect towards my God! It really eats me up inside, especially in a situation like this where I cannot participate in the conversation! That's why I didn't actually watch the video when it was originally posted, I only skimmed it now so I could understand this reaction video... And I get that they're saying we were too harsh against Amr who represented Islam but that's the thing though, I don't feel he defended and represented Islam accurately (and I'm not hating on him, I know it was a stressful situation) but that just hurts me alot!
i thought this episode of middle ground was so interesting + i really enjoyed watching and hearing everyone’s perspective. thanks for this behind the scenes episode - so good !!! also, love the radical empathy podcast, it is hands down one of my favourite podcasts to listen too. thanks Jubilee for great content !!!!
The problem with this video is that these people are not experienced in their area of faith yet they represent huge numbers of people. Like they’re just normal people who don’t have that much knowledge but are talking on behalf of millions or billions. and so to chose one person of each Abrahamic faith against people of 3 satanic faith is just not balanced. I also don’t appreciate how this guy is fan girling Richard-lael? Like the guy just said satanism is not a religion than persuaded to agree that it is? Man is contradicting himself on the basic fundamental of his belief 😬
I thought it was great to hear your perspective on this video as I know it was one that received a little more backlash from the looks of it in the RUclips comments. Good job!
Regarding the eden conversation I’d love to answer it very clearly I think Shawn was not the best at explaining Christian beliefs and what the Bible says. The way the satanist explain the event of Adam and Eve makes it seem like god was withholding back a good thing from them but that is the exact opposite. Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree they were pure and without sin they were okay being naked and had a happy life with god in the garden. The tree represented the knowledge of sin/evil and all the bad things. As soon as they ate the fruit they became shameful, guilty, and fearful which was exactly what satan wanted he tried to convince them of exactly what the satanist are saying “that god is not giving you knowledge you yourself are not good enough right now you need to have the same knowledge of god” god was protecting them from the evil. And as soon as the went against his will they became sinners
I would love to see extended cuts/ showing individual interviews both before/after they participate in the prompts to see their perspective going in and going out. I would love to see what the Christian thought because it seemed like he hadn't been exposed to those perspectives. There is definitely an advantage for the atheists/satanists because they were likely raised Christian and likely grappled with those questions in their own religious journey. Someone who stayed in the religion they were raised likely hasn't been as skeptical of their own beliefs.
I think that this video highlighted the flaws and shortcomings of the Middle Ground format. I definitely think the series has value, but there is definitely an unfairness to it in some (not all) ways.
I completely agree with a lot that you said in this video, and I was also kind of disappointed with how people reacted to Richard-Lael in the comments. I think he seems like a really cool person and has a very unique personality, and most people just reduced him down to being rude, when he was just communicating how he felt.
5:12 That tension is definately spiritual warfare. It can be really confusing and a simple Wikipedia search could very easily lead you in the wrong direction, but many people (not only Christians) believe that there is a spiritual realm of angels and demons that is active in our world, even though we can't see them. It is insanely hard to understand and comprehend, but those angels and demons fight and we can feel the effects of that warfare in our physical world. It is amazing and there is so much proof towards this, but it is super hard to explain so if you're more interested, I'd recommend the book This Present Darkness by Frank Peretti since, while it is fictional, it gives you an image of what could be happening. Hoped that can add another dimension to understanding what is going on:)))) Edit: Also, i feel like Shawn didn''t make the point (at least in the video) that Christians believe that humans are destined for hell and for separation from God, but it is because of Jesus' sacrifice that we have the opportunity to be saved. God doesn't banish people to hell, he actually gives people the opportunity to save themselves from going to Hell, its just a matter of accepting that salvation. I know its hard to explain that in a video and maybe it was just edited out, but I feel like I should say something about it since I didn't see anything about it in the comments. Sorry for the long comment!!
That’s what I thought too. I think he was getting very convicted by the Holy Spirit and he was trying to articulate the argument. I think he could have been more clear on what hell is i think too. God bless. 🤍✝️
I feel for Shawn. I respect him, I could understand how he/his spirit felt. As a Christian if I ever sat next to Richard-Lael it'll be like talking to the devil himself. Full of pride and knows how to attack you with your words. But interesting video... Much respect to Amr and Raigini?
Y’all should do a series where two different religious or political views try to flip the other side, kind of like middle ground, but with teens/ college students.
This brings up so many interesting tensions! I'm a religious studies scholar and I'm going into seminary. As someone who studies comparative religion who has their own faith already - at some point you've more or less got to pick whether to believe none of them at all or all of them! I sometimes describe myself as an Atheist Christian because Christianity is the religious worldview I know, but I see truth being highlighted in all the religions I study, which is the same way I feel when I watch this video. I think it could be interesting to get a group of theologians together to talk with religious scholars, like people who are pastors and religious leaders and people who study those religions but don't necessarillllllly participate in them.
Warning: please people do not click on logans comment of wanna be friends even liking the comment or clicking on his page he can hack your youtube and take other details
i would love if you guys did part 2s to the most viewed middle grounds. i think like john said there are so many different ppl that identify with a major group and hearing everyone’s opinion is really important
At 19:32 again if Ragini understood what Hinduism/Santana Dharma means she would have rejected that statement. Hindusim never claims to be the only path, in fact, it never claims anyone else to be false either. There is a difference between the cultural aspect of religion and faith aspect of it. Hinduism never fights for the faith aspect of it which is being questioned here.
I don't think this was a product of her not knowing about it, but more that she knew that whatever she said, Richard lael would aggressively dispute it, so it seemed to me that she just didn't think it was worth speaking up about.
@@claranoggle But Richard is not a Hinduism expert. The fact that he didn't realise that Vishnu and Krishna are basically the same. A person with knowledge of their religion could've wiped the floor with Richard.
i loved this style of episode, being able to reflect back and give the directors views and your own thought process! i hope this type of review will continue to be shown on twobilee!
John, I absolutely loved hearing your commentary around this video. Your ideas were so insightful and I feel like they'll help a lot of Jubilee viewers put the video and it's participants into perspective and reinvigorate how people consume Jubilee's content. Your comments at the end regarding everybody's strength made me emotional honestly, super genuine and thoughtful and I'm so here for this second channel.
he’s not wrong about bringing in a well informed muslim i feel sorry for the kid being roped in to this my guy was just sitting in the backseat talking about stuff he’s not educating on himself
When the Satanists vs major religions episode of Middle Ground came out, it caused quite the stir. We hope this commentary by John gives you some insight into what making this episode was like! Let us know your thoughts. 👀
Please do more of these! Loved the behind the scenes insight. Maybe in the future you might invite the people back for a type of after interview such as this?
I think it's a good idea to do spectrum with Hindus. That way you can learn more about Hindus.
I'd love to see more of these commentary videos!
Have you done a do all introverts think the same on spectrum if not you should do one if so can you reply with a link I couldn’t find it
@@Enby_Wendigo they did do an odd man out if that helps
Video Idea: People of one religion from different places around the world. How does belief differ?
Omg yess please, I am biased by suggesting this but I would love to see this idea with Muslims because I noticed a sparking difference between us Muslims in the Middle East and the Muslims they casted in their videos like spectrum and odd man out even. especially regarding how well informed the Muslims they casted are, some of the ones in odd man out did not know information we take in first grade here. That was a really interesting difference for me to observe, I am not shaming them or anything of course.
@@RaghadAmr I actually see that criticism of their muslim cast members quite a lot in the comments, and I get that they are trying to show an ordinary person but I also think it's important to represent what the actual stances of that religion is. I mean I'm coming at it from a Christian perspective, but most of the American Christians which they cast have a very different interpretation of major beliefs and texts than my communities views in Australia. I just think it would be really interesting to explore, and I would love to watch that video idea with different religions, I think it would be really interesting and informative.
muslims and buddhists should definitely do this. islam is represented well from central africa all the way up to sub-saharan africa, through the middle east, west asia and turkic states, all through south-east asia and malaya, in particular malaysia, brunei and indonesia. buddhism is represented well throughout all of west asia, and indian, tibetan, thai, vietnamese, japanese, malaysian, etc. buddhism which often fall into theravada, mahayana, vajrayana, as well as tibetan and some other outliers from nepal and inner tibet are all vastly different and have many different opinions and beliefs. not to mention the large black islamic community in the states.
they did this for muslims and christians
@@chickadeepng they're not very diverse. they only range in conservativism. and catholicism has some of their own beliefs but that's because catholicism has kind of been it's own faction of christianity.
I was really happy about John actually telling Richard-lael to stop interrupting Shawn because the directors have never really done that before and sometimes it just felt really disrespectful and at some point annoying so thank you for that John.
No they do it a lot. Too much really.
John barely did anything
Yah I agree with you I was happy when he asked them to wait for the other to finish their sentence.
I didn't exactly see that Richard-Leal was being intentionally rude or disrespectful. Rather, I saw it as some people can't wait to talk while others can't wait to listen. He had a strong opinion and was perhaps expecting an argument over his personal choice of religion. Thus, it came off as argumentative, rude, and disrespectful... If anything it was disruptive, but perhaps (again) not intentional because upon John's reminder to let Shawn and Ragini finish he always did.
@@i.harris9236 Not to mention jubilee really edited the video to make the satanist seem rude. The girl from the satanist side made a whole tik tok abt it.
the only issue i had with this episode was that they were 3 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1
you and i are like my buttcheeks after all the shit that goes between us we always get back together yeah I feel like maybe it would have been best to choose 3 practices that are opposite of the major religions but don’t necessarily clash each other. Like a satanist, a Wiccan (witch), and an atheist or something along those lines.
Bruh ur name is so long XD
@@Yara-us5ey I legit sat here trying to figure out why the 1st commenter was talking about asscheeks 🤣
@@monaherman same
Personally I think it was good as satanism is so personal and it mostly differs a lot from person to person just in what satanism as a religion is. At least my opinion.
The problem with Amr is that he is representing a huge religion. Even though I respect him a lot, he wasn't well equipped to defend hundreds of millions of people.
Exactly. Coming from a muslim, it did not feel like Amr was representing Islam, more representing himself. There are points he made that contradicts our religion
My point exactly, I would have loved if he presented Islam's point of view on the story of Adam and eve and heaven, because if he just said how the story is narrated in the Quran it would strongly go against the satanists' most compelling argument (why would God withhold information from adam and eve)..
But I can definitely understand what he went through while filming that video, the dialogue was intense and at the end of the day he represented Islam beautifully in my opinion
yeah but I feel bad about all the hate he received :(
@@RaghadAmr how do you know he didn't talk about those things?do you know how much they cut out of these videos 🤔
@@dairyproducts2775 sorry that didn't cross my mind, if he did talk about it I would have loved if they kept those parts in.
i think our problem with people like Richard was not that he had a strong personality, it was that he was interrupting everyone and rude.
Yah I agree! I get that 'out there' personalities is what makes the content but I think you can be 'out there' and totally expressive of your opinion while still being respectful, unlike Richard. I still feel like he could've gotten his points across without being disrespectful
Yea I agree, I think Richard could've been more respectful when it came to talking, but he was very excited to express his belief, not so rude.
I really liked him at first but by the end I was like eh... he was the most disrespectful
Y’all just call him by his full name 😂 the director even made it clear at the beginning
the satanist shoewd up triggered
1:40 “When I WAS a Christian” this sounds like a juicy story
I definitely thought so too. Now I have to go Google John and see what I can find.
@@eloketobe did you find anything 👀
Oof! Yes. Can relate to him!
@@eloketobe listen to the first episode of radical empathy. He discusses it there
@@aimawaseem4436 oh I found it... thank you
I feel it was too much tension and agression in this episode. I mean Shawn was kinda afraid of sharing his opinion because of Richard-lael, it was almost always them against each other. I just wish there wasnt such a "us vs them" scenario.
But that's the whole point of the show.
@@jakefoster5611 isn't the point to find the middle ground? Not to fight..
@@user-dq8km4zt7f you're right. Not many people know how to have fruitful respectful discussions anymore and it shows. Either you litterally fight with people or you lock yourself in a social media bubble where you only come in contact with people with the same opinions as you
@@sleepygirl96 i love the point you made there!!
Shawn was being humble.
Actually, the comments criticizing the Muslim kid had some truth attached to them. One of the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH was to never misquote him or misrepresent the religion of Islam. What ticked most people off was when he said hell wasn't a fire even though it's clearly stated, and when he said Satan wasn't bad. It's fine if he doesn't believe in it, but to misrepresent such a large community, it's a sin in Islam. I think he was a bit shy as well, which definitely didn't help his case.
Yeah me too
This was very well stated! I am a Christian, by the way (probably could be described as a sort of a fundamentalist), and felt similarly about two Christians that have been on so far, the young man on the Atheists vs. Christians Middle Ground debate and the young woman who was a 'secret Christian' in the '6 Satanists and 1 Secret Christian' Odd One Out video. Though being called a Christian, at the end of the video she admitted she's in a process of 'heavily deconstructing' - which basically means she's 1 1/2 feet out the door of her professed faith and religion! The young man i mentioned was quite a bit more like Amr; kindhearted and well-meaning...but deeply flawed in his orthodoxy. In the same video there was a man with pretty sound orthodoxy who was very impolite and disrespectful, interrupting others and assuming the reasons for their answers before they could give them, greatly stifling the freedom and flow of the overall conversation. Consequently in the comments section, the young man was regarded as a positive model of Christianity.
Unfortunately John is probably right. People like Amr and this young man i'm mentioning are probably quite an average representation of a postmodern thinking practitioner of their particular belief from their generation. As i considered this i began to feel less offended by the young man man and more of an urgent desire to properly educate men like him. The fact that he thinks and acts the way he does is not entirely his own fault: he is indoctrinated with postmodern and pragmatic thinking by not only the world outside, but also (i think i can speak with some confidence about both of our religions) from a large amount of those who claim to be within the faith community, including those with positions of authority (which includes parents).
In short, i would agree with you that these young men i mentioned misrepresented each of our faiths, but unfortunately it's likely that they accurately represented the average youth and young adults of our population. And that gives me great cause for concern.
Anyway, i wanted to thank you for sharing your thoughts, and i hope mine are a benefit to you as well.
@@jeremiahsherlock9144 Thank you so much for your comments. There is a point to be made that those in these videos represent Muslims and not Islam, Christians not Christianity, etc. However, it would be best to get the most knowledgeable in a religious discipline, because you want to showcase a belief, not ideas from someone who may not know enough about the religion. Although I will say that at least in my experience (living across the Muslim world), I've met a lot of people who still have the basic tenets of the religion down, even if some of the deeper ideas are influences by secular/post-modern ideas and values like liberalism and the ideologies that sprang from it like feminism, nationalism, etc. However, a belief in something like hell being a fire has no reason to be curbed or modernized, or eroded from the religion due to modernity, so it feels weird that someone would take that position. It would make sense if he maybe took a few less strict opinions from Islamic law due to the influence of the modernist hegemony over the world, but belief in hell being fire isn't like that.
At the end of the day I don't think it's really about religion. It's about being a good human being. And if you are a good human being on a basis of your religion (or non-religion) I respect that religion. Because I respect you.
And by that logic satanists are honestly terrible people.
I love this so much and agree with it as well. Being a religious person myself, a Jehovah’s Witness, being so criticized for simply hearing what I practice is insane. I remember hearing from someone I respect, “ In the end, I don’t care what you look like or what you are I just hope that you were/are a good person.” And even though there are millions of people that don’t have the same beliefs as me I respect them for being the good human that they are. People think immediately I’m homophobic but I try to let everyone know I respect everyone for the person they are, I may disagree with their beliefs but that’s something different.
@@coletrainhetrick you don't even know what satanism is. tell this to the christians that attend anti-lgbtq+ marches, anti-immigration marches, anti-feminism marches. satanism is a very left winged religion and the church of satan has advocated so much for minority rights in every aspect. do you know the 11 laws of earth in the satanic church? if u don't then read them. satanists are good people and just because u see the word satan doesn't mean they sacrifice babies and goats.
What the hell does it even mean to be a “good human” how do you measure goodness
squishy ponyo thank you
I agree. Shawn did get beat up. Now I understand that he only had 24 hours. I didn’t expect him to be so attacked lol
He is the epitome of mainstream modern Christianity. He didn't want to offend anyone or appear strong. He probably thinks Islam and Hinduism are good too.
he wasn't attacked which was painfully evident from the video.
he agreed to do the show 24hrs before, but he's been a Christian his entire life and a pastor at that which makes him an "expert" for lack of a better word.....what more preparation would he have needed to do something like this?
As John stated, he wanted the reactions of participants to be organic and as Gus said above, Shawn is quite literally what mainstream Christianity looks like.
How the episode played out was perfect in my view
@@blaxximus876 idk getting cut out and facing a rude audience can knock you out a bit
Can this dude read me a story? He should be narrating audiobooks.
@Antoine Bandele, oh hey what are you doing here?
Yo, I know you from your star wars content and jkp/n. Man, I always loved seeing you play social deduction games you were the most logical and strategic.
He said mentioned in the beginning that he has a podcast. Not a book but still something
Antoine! I love your videos!!
For the Christian representation, get an apologist. They literally practice defending the faith when it comes to questions
Jay Kay true!
Yes! I was thinking the same thing.
Or a person who is not a biblical literalist, like Pete Enns or something. He approaches these questions better than this guy did. No offense to him.
Apologizing.
Fr I should have been in this episode I had an answer for everything Richard-leal said
It would be interesting to see one between people who converted into a religion vs those that converted out :)
!!!!!
Oooo that would be good to see I'd happily sign up to do that.
This would be a brilliant one!
Great idea!!!
John's voice was so soothing throughout the video. He should do ASMR is future.
Yah but is gonna ruin it
you had me until "he should do asmr"
Hahahaha thank you. I enjoy my fair share of ASMR. Maybe something I'll try in the future 🤷♂️Appreciate you watching
He does a podcast called Radical Empathy
Please don’t.
I just realized watching it through again that no one believes in good and evil except shawn, however they all think they are good people, which is very interesting. I loved hearing John's commentary and watching the episode. Maybe an episode on polytheism in the future?
@@tij_ana_ No lol, we just don't believe in the dichotomy of good and evil. It's a loaded term, it implies you're either one or the other. The best way that I can put it is- morality is a spectrum of shades of gray, rather than black and white. I believe there are elements of good and evil within everyone, and what matters is how much.
@@tij_ana_ I'm just trying to explain the thought process behind the arguments. I still believe in a concept of good, and a concept of evil, just not "good and evil", which is kind of a loaded term. It's moreso about semantics to me.
yeah that's because most religions have plot holes concerning morality, but Christianity doesn't
@@tij_ana_ Ah, understood. I was just defending my position in the video. No worries.
I’m not sure about evil but things are definitely good. I could cook some soup and it may taste good or bad, but it won’t taste evil.
I sort of believe in evil but not in a supernatural sense. I believe pedophiles are evil, for example. They either r@pe children or have the desire to. Yet they’d often describe their feelings as loving and consensual (they’re not; children can’t consent). I can see why someone would take the stance “you’re evil by my standards, but my standards are not universally held”. Who decides who/what is evil and who/what is merely bad? Many religious people would say god, but then people from within that religion will disagree on what god says and then they’ll also disagree between religions. As someone who doesn’t believe in god, all of these stances are just those of humans and therefore no more inherently worthy of being accepted than anyone else’s; in fact, since they’re often the views from a society vastly different from our current world, you could argue they’re less relevant views. You have philosophers who’ve been debating for centuries what is and is not ethical, and they never reached a universal answer we could all agree to.
If someone is born devoid of empathy and is tortured until they develop a distorted view of humanity (maybe they’d been born with empathy but lost it after a childhood of neglect and torture), then they go on to commit mass murder, are they evil? Are they evil for how they were born? Is it being tortured that made them evil? Should we be sympathetic to this murderer? What if they killed people because they thought humanity was evil? Were they actually good then? Maybe they were good by their standards.
Maybe you think my favourite soup tastes gross. Maybe it’s bad to you, and good to me. Maybe these people are good like nice soup; it’s subjective and the opposite to being “bad” rather than the opposite to being “evil”. The existence of evil soup is not a requirement for some good soup to exist. Maybe that’s the same with people, at least by some people’s standards.
Ok but that video showed us a whole different perspective in religions.
So thanks jubilee for doing that vid
People act so tough when they’re behind a screen.
Something essential to know is with the garden of eden is there was no knowledge to be had from eating the apple. The belief is that the only reason the devil wanted adam and eve to eat the apple was to defy God. The reason God did not want them to eat the fruit was just to see if they would trust him, not because he wanted to keep them in the dark.
yeah I don't know where the idea that they were stupid robots until eating the fruit came from
without satan they would have been kept in the dark their whole lives. also god should have known that they would eat it because he knows everything. also he should have just thanos clicked satan away if he thought satan was so bad in the first place. also god shouldn't have punished the entirety of humanity with sin and suffering because eve bit the fruit. why should we suffer. it was their mistake. what a merciful god! love that!
@@diva3713 this is the exact reason why I don't think i can be christian any more. God is all knowing. He created the devil knowing that hell would also be created. Every time he creates a person he knows whether or not they will suffer forever for eternity after their life on earth, yet still proceeds to create them.
Some people argue that you need the devil to tempt people and see if they trust God. But if he loves humans so much as he claims, why does he watch them go to hell and suffer? He'd watch majority of the population go to hell if it meant finding a few that really love him. Just sounds cruel and selfish to me.
@Adaeze Njoku issues like these can definitely be hard to wrap your head around. As a Christian to understand this questions I ask myself why God does anything. The answer is for His own glory. Which at first glance might seem selfish but when you consider that God is the only thing that is truly good, the only one worthy of glory, it makes more sense (at least to me).
Without the fall, there would be no need for salvation and the gift of salvation one of the main reason we know God loves us (Romans 5:8) and one of the reasons why we glorify God. Although we all inherited sin from Adam we can all inherit the kingdom of heaven through Jesus (Romans 5:15), if we repent and accept him as our saviour and turn from our sin.
I don’t want to make this comment too long so I’m not addressing some of the specific points you raised (I’d love to potentially later on) but ultimately it’s important to note that God is love. And love encompasses justice which is why hell exists (because he is so good he punishes sin), but we have all sinned and deserve hell... so God shows us his love by offering us away to escape hell and we are all free to accept this gift of salvation (Romans 6:23).
But finally, God doesn’t need to “find those who really love him” he saves all who come to Him (Acts 2:21)
This is a kinda long but I just thought I’d share my beliefs :)
@@annat.2777 so you're telling me the most loving being in all of existence sends hundreds of billions of people to hell for all eternity for the simple act of not believing in him? this is not love. if i was god, i woulf not send hundreds of billions to hell. what about the hindu monks that devouted their whole lives to do nothing but act kindly to all? they would still be sent to hell for all eternity because they didn't hear about who god is? i'm sorry but this just isn't logical. and a truly merciful god wouldn't punish ALL OF MANKIND because one person bit a fruit. he knew that adam would if he's omniscient. that is stupidity and unmerciful. this is why is left the presbyterian church a few months ago after almost 15 years, and i am so glad i have converted to buddhism.
I loved the commentary on the middle ground and I'd love to see more. Not really related but I'm very interested to see a video on how the casting works especially in middle ground. Who do you choose, how do you choose them and what questions do you ask in order to cast them?
me too!
This is such a brilliant idea
Agreed. Bcs I smell smthing fishy
*React to Black Conservatives vs. Black Republicans. It was really interesting*
Yesss. Omg lady cage is-
I understand that "strongly expressive" people would make interesting videos to film but firstly, not many people in your videos have been extremely shy to the point where it is hard include them in the video (although some earlier videos have had a few people who had very minimal footage time). Secondly I think the problem with when cutting others off all the time while they are sharing, people tend to get annoyed, which fill them with emotions, which stop people from thinking clearly and critically. Now I understand that you appreciated Richard-lael's views and you are some what defending a guest of your show as he was quite evidently called out a lot in the comments, but I disagree with what you said in this video. I think having a lot expressive of people who don't know when to wait their turn to speak like a respectable adult, will stray people away from having intelligent conversation and lead to shallow, emotional arguments. Having a safe environment to speak your mind is what I think provides a more real conversation between everyone, evidently shown in all your videos.
Ty. This is what I needed someone to address
I disagree with the stopping of comments saying people are disrespectful. Because there has been people in your videos that come off very condescending and disrespectful. There is a difference on being reactive and being disrespectful. And some people in the video were being disrespectful. To add on I dont think people are mad with people being confrontational in their beliefs, but there is way to do it that still respects the other side.
he came off more eager than rude. ik he was rude to interrupt but i think most western non-christians are sick of hearing about christianity and have a lot to say. and clearly this is something richard-lael is very passionate about. most satanists are passionate about religion and would have a lot of questions and things to say to a presbyterian preacher.
squishy ponyo Completely agree. I personally enjoyed Richard-Lael, and I think he brought some really great ideas up, and was just very eager to communicate how he felt.
squishy ponyo the snickers were unnecessary
@@Tobi-pp8io yes but i think it has to do with his over-the-top and dramatic personality. personally i don't think he came off very rude, his interruptions were a tad annoying but it wasn't a big deal, and i think people just overreacted over nothing.
squishy ponyo I disagree, put yourself in people he discussed with shoes, he was being condescendante at times and rude (sale for Lois). Personally if it was not for the way he treated others I would have enjoy his over the top personality.
I feel like they could have made it into a 3 part series like religion vs satanism where in each episode its a different religion but like 3 satanist vs 3 people of the same religion, not 3 different religion, because the 3 religions that are supposedly on the same side also have alot of disagreements with each other, so it is very hard for them to back each other up and portray solid points, wherein, the satanist sides is almost overpowering? but anyway i really hope you could do this again but like the 3 vs 3 kind so that each religion could state their points clearly.
I agree because it seems like satanists mainly have an issue with Christianity so im curious to hear them in conversation with all Muslims, or all Jews, or all Hindus.
It is a little disappointing to hear “we’re only here for the conflict”. I would venture to say that most of us are here for the discussion...normal, everyday conversations about the cool topics picked out. Try not to go only for the conflict/ “big theatrical moments”, but the entire conversation
Yeah, Jubilee has always put up this front of it all being about empathizing with one another and that the point of this series is to discuss topics and find a middle ground. Now he's saying we shouldn't be mad at people being rude and disrespectful and pretty much admitting that they just want arguments and drama. People like that satanist literally shut down conversation by interrupting, being rude and ultimately making people hesitant to actually discuss their beliefs, which is the opposite of what they claim to want to achieve.
nah tbh im only here for the juicy conflict lol
i've never been here for the conflict, I didn't appreciate this direction; visualized with fire and electric guitars.
10:35 - 10:45
"We are here for the conflict" does not sound like the purpose of a series called middle ground
You need to respect for each other to be able to find a middle ground and that is why so many in the comments (including me) criticised the disrespectfulness of the two satanists throughout the video
they gotta get the views
by conflict i don't think he means hostility he just means voice your thoughts
Like he said at the end of the video, if everyone we kind and opened minded, and passive you wouldn’t get much information about people’s views. just them trying not to offend anyone
I hear your point Emanuel and I appreciate the civil discussion here. Thanks for watching the video guys 🙂
@ghost robles that's totally a fun idea. it's crossed our minds a few times. we'll think about it some more and maybe make it happen!
You can have a strong personality and “loud” without being disrespectful though
I'm a little confused by the whole "we chose every day Muslims/Christians/Hindus you see in your daily life" when the Satanists are not ones that I see in daily life, they are quite obviously leaders or well-informed people of their communities. I have met Satanists who look completely different than the ones shown on the screen in daily life, who you could look at and not know what they believe. I also think that is why they dominated the conversation, because the more mediocre / slightly informed people (everyone on the major religions side) did not know how to have a conversation with them, without being refuted or cut off.
You wanted to mix chemicals to have a reaction, but you only added strong chemicals on one side, not the other? The conversation could have been much more interesting, but alas, it's too late. You said you wanted to find people who are not humble and meek and want to say everything on their minds to have that impactful conversation, that's what makes it interesting, but..... you didn't do that on the other side...? kinda contradictory, no?
you're so right lol ive never ever seen any Islamic student of knowledge who studied under scholars in any western media so im not really surprised lol
comedown machine i hope they dont think i’m a “hater” like that other video... i love jubilee videos and am always kinda disappointed with the representation of muslims because everyone else gets a leader for their group, not even in the “do all muslims think the same video” was there an imam or sheikh or scholar... i wish someone under mufti menk or actually anyone really was called on. I know there is a big community near LA
@@hawarahman3825 mufti menk isn't a scholar
@@hawarahman3825 they should ask dus dawah since they're in the west and they could probably find someone who is actually an educated sunni salafi
That's an excellent point Hawa! You did kind of catch me playing both sides there so point taken. I will say that I had a few interested people on the side of MR who opted out once they learned that they'd be speaking with Satanists. Perhaps this sheds light on why the cast members on that side ended up being more mild in temperament? This also points out that not all episodes have the possibility of operating on a level playing field-there's bound to be a tilt one direction. MR are speaking from the majority perspective with arguably much more at stake, which determines the type of person willing to take that seat, and Satanists were operating from the minority end, which gives them a lot more to gain and also determines the type of person willing to claim that label. You see this dynamic happen in some of our other episodes as well-which is pretty interesting! Maybe I should've said this in the video, oh well. I appreciate the thoughtful point and will continue to cast more thoughtfully for you guys :)
About God not wanting Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, I see it as the same thing as a parent not letting their 8yo watch an R-rated movie. Adam and Eve were His children, and He wanted to protect them from something they weren’t ready for.
Great way of putting it. Ive always had a hard time explaining it or just couldn't find the answer why. I was taught that it was about trust
Hey I like your thinking but, would the parents purposefully leave R-rated films around the house to tempt the child?
No you can’t compare these two together ,R-rated movies are definitely not the same as knowledge
Luchie Chibwe: Ok, probably not. Maybe a better analogy for it would be parents telling their young children not to play with lighters and other tools that could be dangerous when not used properly.
@@popcornenthusiast hmmm, but in this case god didn't give them the full picture. He said you can have anything else but if you eat from this tree you will die. Which was false, so when the serpent came and told them the objective truth: that the fruit would give them knowledge of good and evil they tested it out.
Now if god had told them the full truth wouldn't they have been able to make an informed decision?
Plus why didn't god just kill them instead since those were the terms he gave them. Why punish them and even worse transfer that punishment to generation after generation for a sin we didn't commit?
its weird that lois would use genesis as a reference in favor of satan, but the tree is called the tree of knowledge of good and evil and she said she doesn’t believe in good and evil. I’m not really religious, but I think if you’re going to use scripture to argue in your favor, you can’t nitpick what you want to use, especially when those details are from the same story
kinda wishing this was mentioned in the video now
They don't actually believe in the Bible, they use it as more of a tool to reason with people, beacuse the majority of people in America feel that the Bible is a holy book, or at the very least a book of good morals
She just did tho.
lois said in the video that theres two sides of the story the bible was just leaned and i supose a bit "bias" to gods perspective so she wasnt nitpicking she was just stating a whole different story and i respect that even know im a christian
@@starberrysweetee1495 Yeah but you shouldn't use it if you don't know what you're talking about
Hey, so I am one of the people that decided to not comment on amr's "lack of knowledge" on the original video because I saw that the dialogue was very intense and I can see why he didn't come forward and speak in a lot of instances.
But after hearing your comment on the commenters, I agree with you that he presented Islam beautifully but I just want to clear out that our frustration was due to the fact that the idea of Satan and good and evil is such a huge part of Islam and one of the few things we are not divided on at all considering that there are disagreements between Muslims on a lot of things and Islam as a religion has so much to say about this so we felt rather underrepresented, I hope you see where my fellow Muslims came from.
One of my concern is he doesn't really speak, and I think he's somewhat scared to express himself, that's what bothers me actually
thank you for sharing this
According to one of the guest. Shawn the Christian dude was not really ready for this conversation and needed to take many breaks and was on the verge of tears
Because something said got to him. He knows inside that no matter what he does or doesn't do, it doesn't matter with his God. Many are called but few are chosen. Unless he was born incapable of sinning like Jesus was, he is going to sin in some aspect, and God is going to get him for it.
@@gusgrizzel8397 do you not have anything better to do with your time
@@XYZip1 Attacking other commenters personally means someone has nothing to contribute in any aspect of a discussion.
@@gusgrizzel8397 you have 19 comments my guy
@@gusgrizzel8397 do something productive
I felt really bad for Shawn. He seemed very overwhelmed by how strong they were coming on against him.
Yeah, you like Richard. But acknowledging that he went too far doesn't change the fact that he did. Satanists outnumbered and butchered everyone else in this. Telling people their legit points "aren't very nice", is ridiculous. You should re-do the episode
Lol telling me you're all going to tell in a nice way is disgusting. That's their opinion🤷🏾♀️
In most of the world, they are the ones being outnumbered... This to me feels like correctional promotion
@@starberrysweetee1495 to give a minority a platform to bash others doesn't inspire sympathy towards them. This was supposed to be an educational religious discussion, not a fight.
@@Ninkopi When did they "bash others"? When Richard said they are being nice, but inside, they all think they are the right one, he WAS right.
@@gusgrizzel8397 of-course they all think they're right, each side does, that's why they're talking
As a Christian, I feel like people look at my faith and hate it because it’s what’s on top. It gets attacked a lot. And you described it as a narrow mindset, and Jesus literally calls the path of the Christian the “narrow path/gate.” I don’t know, I’ve learned about a lot of religions and I still stand by mine. And I think people should just respect it.
Michal Kate C. As a Christian I agree but usually I don’t get judged for it Koz I am serraunded by Christians.
It is very interesting to hear your perspective. As a christian from the Carribean, a conversation like this in the video could not happen. In my country, the satanist would be ridiculed and discriminated against because my country was founded on Christian principles. However, it hurts to see that many Americans call us backwards countries because of what we stand for. Although I stand firmly by my faith in Jesus Christ, I cannot participate in discrimination of any kind to people who many believe different from me.
As a Christian, in a place where christians are a minority, most people don't hate or have really negative views on christians as a group, just the fundamentalist American ones. Every other christian group seems kinda chill when compared with what you guys are up to lol. Especially the racism and islamophobia.
@@adroitdroid5989 I mean where I live (California), people aren't islamophobic anymore. I also don't really think we're necessarily more hateful here in America, it's just that there are a good amount of us that do say harsh things on social media and start fights that don't end well, which obviously isn't a good way to handle things. And social media then blows it out of proportion from there. Also there are a lot of groups that form that call themselves Christian, yet do not represent themselves as loving and are often the ones that get a super bad rap online. A lot of those groups aren't even reading the Bible or showing love to the world as they're supposed to. Then the Christians that actually try to exemplify God's love and go to churches that preach the real deal have to do damage control. It sheds a bad light on all of us. But there are tons of Christians out there who just stay in their own lane and adhere to God's teachings, even in America.
Who’s here after seeing Dax talk about their experience on this episode on tiktok and how the director did them so dirty with the editing?
🖐️
Same
Does anyone have a link?
Isn't that why this video response was made??
@@sabieDxMx this video didn’t really address any of the issues tho lmao. It was more of a half assed analysis
Also about the Christian people doing great for society, Sir Issac Newton was a literal Bible obsessed Christian, He spent years of his life going through just the bible, he thought it had a secret code from God.
didn’t he reject the trinity tho?
Also there's a whole section of the Catholic Church of clergymen dedicated to science and research
In my religion we had a golden age of achievements.
@@neonpee no
Please do a "do all asexuals think the same" but with at least one Sex favorable asexual in it, we get little to no representation and actually get hate within the ace community
:(
And love these commentary videos, they clear up a lot of questions, please so more of these!
Also the aro community.
that’s a good idea! i’m very curious on that
I agree, I personally am ace leaning heavily towards apothisexual, but the asexual and aromantic communities are on a spectrum and you barely see any representation and I think it would be great to finally get some.
@@alexvano9718 very true. I feel like especially for aces who aren't sex repulsed it is hard because the little ace representation that is out there is that of an apothisexual. And while that is a big part of the community it is by far not all of it and I wish to see Jubilee show that :)
I would like to see the spectrum of asexuality included. Not just pure asexuals, but demisexuals/graysexuals as well. Also romantic/aromantic.
PLEASE READ THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. There’s a difference between opinionated, strong personalities and being unapologetically disrespectful. These ideas are conflated so often. As someone who loves honesty and not shying away from what we believe, I also hate it when people use being honest as an excuse to be unnecessarily rude. That weekend comment is what instantly signaled to me that he wasn’t looking for middle ground, he was looking for a gotcha.
You didn't understand the point he was making.
LOUDER!
While there were many interesting topics brought up in the original video, I'm going to have to disagree and say that the two vocal satanists were being pretty rude at times. Not only the amount of times they would interrupt, but also the tone of voice Richard would use got very condescending at times. I think the satanists brought up multiple good points but they sometimes did so in a way that was not conducive to an actual dialog, every time Richard specifically would try to make a mic drop moment it was very smug and was usually an attempt to leave little room for conversation other that a simple disagreement. You say that is how the guy always is but being a generally rude or condescending person does not mean that it's suddenly fine to be those things.
The hyper focus on fundamental christian ideology in the satanists arguments also did not make for good conversation. They rarely addressed the other two religions present but also there are many Christians who do not take the old testament, that they often referred to, literally. As far as I am aware most Christians are not fundamentalists so attacking that view and attributing it to the people present who gave no indication that they shared those beliefs, came off as disingenuous to me.
Overall I wasn't a fan of that episode, not because of the topic or most of the points brought up, but because the casting for the most part was not great.
Give them a bit of a break. There was no easy way of knowing how smug or condescending a person will be when arguing and casting people is a long tedious time consuming process.
@@koutaconnor9453 I would if it was actually evident that they were trying to keep things civil and productive but in this case, there is little evidence of them attempting to do so. There is hardly and moderation going on when it was very much needed here, and the Dracula guy (who I don't remember the name of) was on previous videos they had done, so they were aware of his personality. It's not like it came out of nowhere either, he acted similarly then, and it was obvious to me that he would not be a good choice for a debate style format such as this.
This also wasn't the first one of these videos where they brought in people who obviously had no interest in listening to any differing opinions. It's happened enough times for me to expect a slightly better vetting process to try and avoid situations like this one that bomb because of rude, disinterested, or disingenuous participants.
I don’t understand how some people are so sensitive truly
Like I get the passion behind religions and the extreme emotions but having to act a certain way in order to be perceived and for the audience not to feel offended by their presence is so artificial and takes us a million steps backwards,, and I’m not talking about basic respect, that is fine but the people r offended by them giggling to eachother Bc they can’t decide if they agree or not? Why does that anger so many people
@@coolgirl-hv7uc Is this supposed to be a passive aggressive insult? Are you really trying to say everyone who criticized that video just cant handle teasing, instead of looking at the fundamental flaws in the approaches of both parties and the producers to make that video? I suggest you actually read what I wrote in the original comment if that is what you are suggesting, because the flaws of that production run a lot deeper than "people r offended by them giggling to eachother".
Brilliantly put. It does surprise me to see the amount of people commenting just tearing into the folk in the video...failing to see how difficult it could be to articulate your views in that situation - seems like they're missing the whole point. Keep up the great work and I love what you do as a company!
I get that you want people with strong opinions, and I think that's great. But having one person who interrupts others constantly, can't let anyone finish a thought or get a full sentence in without being told by a producer to step back, and overall seems hell-bent on dominating the conversation just seems counter-productive to finding "middle ground," which I think a lot of us thought was the purpose of the series. Richard-lael was articulate and confident and well-spoken. But he wasn't really listening to anyone else. At that point, you no longer have a conversation. But then, maybe the point isn't to have a conversation or really open up dialogue. Maybe the point is just to put people with opposing view points in the room and see who can be the loudest-but that seems kind of weird for a series called middle ground, idk
Right!! It makes for an entertaining and interesting video that sparks more conversation but how productive and true to the series’ title is it really? With the personalities in the room that make it difficult to progress or even have an understanding of eachother. Maybe in this representation it shows that it may be difficult to find a middle ground among the two groups but i think that it definitely depends on the types of people in the room and how open minded they are.
Exactly!!
Damn who would have expected the ludicrous looking self proclaimed satanist to be prideful and not let anyone get a word in… lmaoooo.
can you do a “do all witches think the same” loved this btw
I'm not sure if this is just an american idea of religion which I'm not familiar with, or just me, but I would never police someone else's version of Christianity. In fact most people in my life who are Christian are on a very broad spectrum of views from very dogmatic to very spiritual, and we can often spark discussion coming from a place of mutual curiosity and respect. I kinda felt like this video was a bit of a bash.
I especially like middle ground because it encourages confrontation. Irl, I tend to be so intrigued by people who express more extreme point of views, but they often get cut off or not taken seriously in conversations. Thank you for the great content.
It's not accurate representation if you don't have the basic knowledge of what they're representing which what would create more ignorance and misinformation. The criticisms were mostly about the once who cast them and how they didn't handle it respectfully i.e. letting certain individual to interrupt others, then preach here about "not being respectful" just for criticism. Hypocritic much?!
I can’t help but notice how Amr and Ragini barely got to talk or relate most of the time and I think that’s because satanism seems to me like the anti christianity. Like when they talked about whether or not satan is evil, I didn’t not understand what they were talking about since in Islam, we have a different telling of his story.
And I can’t blame Amr for not being able to express an Islamic point of view when he lacked the time and knowledge. It’s easy for christians and satanists to argue and counter-argue when their ideas of religion are similar but their stance is opposite.
The conversation about Genesis: to combat what the Satanists were saying, yes God did say to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge. However in Genesis, it talks about another tree that a lot of people forget about, it’s call the tree of power something like that. Basically what was supposed to happen was when the serpent (devil) came and told them to eat of the fruit they were supposed to refuse and then they were to eat of the tree that is forgotten a lot and have God like powers, we are created in His image which includes things that He could do, and then God would let us know we have defeated the Devil and then he was going to allow them to eat of the tree of knowledge and then we were supposed to live in harmony with evil and wars and pain and without dying. While being able to know the things we know now, and flourish. Yet that didn’t happen because Adam didn’t even relay the message to Eve properly, resulting in her eating the fruit. And then Adam still ate the fruit even though God told him Himself not to. But he did see Eve eat it and she didn’t die immediately so ofc you could be like “oh well if she didn’t die then it’s okay” when really it’s not. Either way long story short now we have to deal with evil and wars and painful births and dying and illness
preach 🙏🏾😭
next one: christians vs. christians can they see eye to eye (ofc that's basically spectrum but still)
That is such a good idea
I think you mean "Do All Christians Think the Same"
Amanda Woisky-Mollo that’s why i wrote it’s basically spectrum.. the name of the series lmao
@@hawarahman3825 ohh, ahah my b didn't really get that part, but I agree with your request considering there are many different christians out there with denominations and non-denominational, the other video was more like religious & less-religious people.
I don’t know if anyone felt like this (I’m Catholic btw), but I just couldn’t watch the episode. I felt too disturbed by the Satanists. I only watched like two minutes.
@Speaking Truth If their so kind why do they purposely pick a the mostly highly offense figure to Muslims, Christians, (and I think Hindus) which make up about 3 billion of the world population just to anger them
I had to really forced myself to get to the half way mark. Not only the satanists made it hard to watch but it also feels like the video is bias in favor with them. Idk, its rough.
I'm Christian and I can totally tell that a lot of people in the world are starting to like the Devil more and it's sad. I feel like even the Director favored the Satanists more. My question is why did he decide to bring Shawn on the show just 24hrs before filming? I feel like The director purposefully wanted the Shawn to be unprepared. At the end of the Day in the bible it says "Every Knee shall bow" Jesus is King
Shawn had given hope in humanity when richard was talking about hell
It was really nice to watch John break down all the elements of the original video. All of the topics covered in the original video were so thought-provoking and really important questions! Sometimes the people in these videos have such a strong presence and it can be difficult to fully grasp their points of these big ideas that they're trying to convey and articulate. It's nice to watch this breakdown video where we can kind of digest the topics in a different way.
Also, I agree with John's point about pushing back against the notion of disliking people just because they have strong opinions and personalities. Every person who is on the show is literally being asked to be reactive and articulate and defend their opinions. It's okay to disagree with their message, but it would be more gracious, as viewers, for us not to attack the people who are sharing their opinions.
@@lydiabrowning3382 I think it wasn't about them having strong opinions and more so about the way that they expressed their strong opinions in a disrespectful manner...
I think there have been some brilliant middle ground videos before, where there was conflict and very strong opinions being expressed, but never (I believe) in a disrespectful manner as this particular video...
@@asah100 I agree that there have definitely been some people on Middle Ground who have been disrespectful communicators (& it's totally okay to point it out!). I suppose what I'm thinking about is how many people comment negatively about people who are just overly excited about their strong opinion and then come across in a negative life because of it. In some ways, there is a lot of empathy rooted in the ability to justify why some people struggle in their communication styles when being put in a situation like that. I just think it's important to consider the reasons why we (commentators) interpret the episodes in certain ways. People who are plain disrespectful should be called out, but maybe not in a way that assumes their behavior is overly representative of their character in its entirety.
Regarding the Adam and Eve story. I think this can be compared to leaving a bowl of candy in front of kids. By leaving them alone in the room with the candy they are left with what their conscience and morals decide to do. You want them to respect you, to wait for you to be in their presence for them to be able to eat the candy. You want to enjoy it together under the conditions that the parent is watching over their child. The last thing you want is for them to ignore your rules and disobey you. Not because candy is poisonous but because you want them to understand what a genuine bond of respect and loyalty is.
I like how you gave a quick summary of every person in this video, because left to me I think all of them represent their religions accurately. From the satanist side we literally see a spectrum of “extremes”in character for the belief, and in major religions I believe they are optimally competent- not representative of negative stereotypes that come with each faith.
Loved this, I wonder if you have thought of having the full conversation uploaded to this 2nd channel for those who’d want to see all that was said.
Oh dear sweet jesus, full convo would be a mess, even more tense than the episode came across, the conversation veered into really weird tangents like slavery and Hitler and gays improving the neighborhood
Lois I mean not like a full edit buy more of a, extended edition kind of thing
@@Georgeilocks Oh I'd be super down for that lol
I would love to see this
@@dax9102 are you the actual person from the video?
Really like the episode, but I'd love it to also include atheists or pantheists, spinozists
Ooooo yes that would be really cool
satanists are atheists!
abi kinda. Satanist are like the squares of atheism. All satanist are atheist but not all atheist are satanist. Most atheist don’t even know that satanist is even a thing. So wouldn’t category them as one. It would still be more beneficial to have both atheist and satanist.
Rykeria Taylor As an atheists I can say that I did not know satanist were a thing before the video
Let's get this straight -- Richard is NOT a strong person. He is a BULLY. Period. And you are irresponsible for condoning his behavior and having him back on the show multiple times. He's probably one of the worst people who's ever been on your channel.
I mean,he still dominated and he had great points. But yes he wasn't acting very nice
Also he is a pretty decent guy overall, intelligent also
John, you are so articulate and soft-spoken! I would love to participate in one of these being a Christian. Honestly i just high-key want everyone to feel loved hahaha dude God is so good and he is love! But he is also JUSTICE, right? If there wasn't a right or wrong what would be the impediment of one crossing the street and murdering your mother? The "hope" that they have good morals? "If" God is the creator of the universe, which I believe he is, and he is the embodiment of love and also the embodiment of justice, don't you think it you make a lot of sense for him to dictate rules and a reward or penalty for abiding to them or not? The fact that God has given us free will is also such a huge point! We all have been given the gift to make whatever decisions we want. If you want to love him back or not, that is 100% optional! But the authority that God has is not made optional, or else he... wouldn't have the power to be God, or even "a god", if you will. The establishment of his authority over heavens and Earth are part of what make him a "big deal", if you try to delute that, he becomes an "influencer", sure, but that's not who or what he is. Wanting to share his power with yourself as a human or with other "gods" is immediately sharing that place of authority with the biggest and most important thing that ever existed, God, but it makes sense that our human nature would seek that power (the bible says that a lot hehe), and that is what is so appealing about "Satan"/Satanism, right? The fact that he offers us the chance to be the gods of our own lives, just like the bible says, no? In my opinion, if we give into our human nature, we will seek things that will never fully satisfy us, like power, attention, validation, success, etc... but if we seek those things only from God and seek to understand and please his heart, we will be more mindful of how to love people better (because God teaches us that so well!), and be more in touch with our original design! That is, who we were born to be. Not as in destiny, but as in a version of ourselves where the anxiety and depression that this world burdens us with can't take a hold of our lives because we are understanding why we were created and why we are worthy of being called sons and daughters of the most high king: Because to our cores, we are LOVED. By a God that is good enough to share revelations and miracles with us while we are here on Earth (which i have witnessed with my own eyes!), and also JUST enough to not turn a blind eye to wrongdoings/"evil". There's also no need to guess what his moral compass is at all! It's all in the bible, which we believe to be his living word! Yayyyyy!
Sorry i rambled hahaha, but very interesting comments were made John, you did a beautiful job as usual! :) We could totally have a conversation about this if you want 😊 just let me know! xx priscilla
I think one thing about the satanists was that they spoke more critically of major religions rather than speaking about what satanism actually is and what foundations of belief is has. It sometimes feels like satanism is born out of anti-religion as opposed to having its own facets of a belief system.
Edit: Anti-Christianity I should say
You have a point about dracula but he was too much when he interrupted so he needs to learn to shut up a little
Nah. Fuck off
@@uhohhotdog found the edgy atheist
comedown machine no, people need to learn that it’s ok to speak your mind.
People need to learn not to interrupt too
@@uhohhotdog its not always ok to speak your mind. yoy need to have proper etiquette or no one will take you seriously
When he was talking about the perspective that people tend to see things from in the United States ( 13:25 ), I honestly felt so proud of my country as I'm from Trinidad and Tobago and we celebrate most of the major events of the main religions nationwide. For example, for Diwali, the hindu festival of lights, everyone celebrates it in one way or another.
The Chapter from *The* *Quran* about *'other* *religions'* that _'Amr'_ refers to
Is Chapter 109 called Al-Kafirun (The non-believers)
Translation is
1) Say: O unbelievers!
2) I do not serve that which you serve,
3) Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
4) Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
5) Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
6) You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
Can we pls get pagans and Christians? That would be cool to see.
There should be more people like John in the world! I love how he listed all the positive qualities he found in the cast members at the end.
Editing the video so that the religeon beleivers looked like better people then the satanists was not cool even if it made the video better to watch
There's no proof this happened. Its not far fetched to believe the satanists were just abrasive, shitty people -- that's how non-believers tend to be.
Kimberly L no, one of the cast members made tiktoks explaining the situation. Most of it was edited to make Shaun look more put together and the religious people look a little better
I love that you guys are speaking about these videos, it really gives more insight into what happened rather than a consumer basing it off a snippet of a conversation. I also would love to see something about the vegan Odd Man Out video because I know it caused lots of heat 😊
I would’ve loved to hear more about some of the other beliefs. I also feel like Shawn was really targeted idk I just feel kinda bad for him
this reaction video coming straight from you really puts in perspective why you guys, jubilee, make these videos. like you were saying at the end of the video, yes it’s all about the discussion but, it comes back around to the actual people themselves and them being as authentic as they can be. you guys are great at what you do!
My biggest problem with this video is that it didnt feel like a middle ground or a discussion. Instead of the two sides educating the others and talking about their differing beliefs, how I viewed it, it felt like it was the satanist attacking the other religions and pointing out why they were wrong to believe that. They did bring up interesting questions, but did it as such that they insulted the other religions, especially christianity. Richard-Lael came at it as such an attack to prove he was better than the rest for what he beliefs. His backhand compliment was complete disrespect for Shawn religion and beliefs. This video should not be called middle ground if you as directors, creators, and producers are looking for an experiment to cause chaos. Be more respectful. I'm not attacking satanist, I wished to learned more about them from this video but that is not what I got. I felt like they judge the other religious and thought they were better than for what they believe, the same issue I have with some Christian's who believe that too! I wish it was more of a dialogue than it was and came away from this video disgusted, frustrated, and wished Jubilee (who I 8/10 times love their videos) did better.
About driving a car being evil - I think being evil is knowing the bad consequences of your actions but performing them regardless of that. So, if you don’t know you’re doing something wrong, then I wouldn’t name it evil, just maybe bad.
PLEASE do a podcast, this was amazing
Y’all really need to get some apologists on here, it’s interesting to hear everyday people’s take on things but there are people (even on yt) who spend their whole careers researching and pondering things like this
I love your channel and the idea behing it. This Middle Ground was the only one that I was unable to watch till the end... I started felling soooo bad because some of the affirmations about my God and my faith were brought in a so sarcastic and disrespectful way... usually, in circumstances like this (when i feel like the word of God was misrepresented), i would like to participate in it and discuss. But i think that Shawn was really humble and wise. And i don't think i would be able to finish filming this video without crying.
You can disrespect me and my thoughts. Even my religion and the institution behind it. But talking with such a disrespect about my God... it hurts really bad...
Aah yes! I feel you! I assume you're a Christian. I am a Muslim but I feel the same way about disrespect towards my God! It really eats me up inside, especially in a situation like this where I cannot participate in the conversation! That's why I didn't actually watch the video when it was originally posted, I only skimmed it now so I could understand this reaction video...
And I get that they're saying we were too harsh against Amr who represented Islam but that's the thing though, I don't feel he defended and represented Islam accurately (and I'm not hating on him, I know it was a stressful situation) but that just hurts me alot!
i thought this episode of middle ground was so interesting + i really enjoyed watching and hearing everyone’s perspective. thanks for this behind the scenes episode - so good !!! also, love the radical empathy podcast, it is hands down one of my favourite podcasts to listen too. thanks Jubilee for great content !!!!
The problem with this video is that these people are not experienced in their area of faith yet they represent huge numbers of people. Like they’re just normal people who don’t have that much knowledge but are talking on behalf of millions or billions. and so to chose one person of each Abrahamic faith against people of 3 satanic faith is just not balanced.
I also don’t appreciate how this guy is fan girling Richard-lael? Like the guy just said satanism is not a religion than persuaded to agree that it is? Man is contradicting himself on the basic fundamental of his belief 😬
The way Richard -Lael states things and the beliefs he embodies ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
Am I the only one who liked Richard-Lael? I think he made amazing points, and I loved how he was so straightforward and blunt with his responses.
You’re not the only one- I like him to. ❤️
No, you're not. He was dead on. A little weird and brash, but dead on.
I loved him ❤️❤️❤️
I LOVED HIM
i think he could of been a little more polite. he was acting like it was a debate rather than a discussion
when they all agreed about love, i... well, that’s the power of love right there.
I thought it was great to hear your perspective on this video as I know it was one that received a little more backlash from the looks of it in the RUclips comments. Good job!
Regarding the eden conversation I’d love to answer it very clearly I think Shawn was not the best at explaining Christian beliefs and what the Bible says. The way the satanist explain the event of Adam and Eve makes it seem like god was withholding back a good thing from them but that is the exact opposite. Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree they were pure and without sin they were okay being naked and had a happy life with god in the garden. The tree represented the knowledge of sin/evil and all the bad things. As soon as they ate the fruit they became shameful, guilty, and fearful which was exactly what satan wanted he tried to convince them of exactly what the satanist are saying “that god is not giving you knowledge you yourself are not good enough right now you need to have the same knowledge of god” god was protecting them from the evil. And as soon as the went against his will they became sinners
I see John’s managed to sneak NiCola LaCroix into the frame. I respect his life choices but Key Lime is the superior flavor ;)
🤣
Thats when I knew he was wild
I would love to see extended cuts/ showing individual interviews both before/after they participate in the prompts to see their perspective going in and going out. I would love to see what the Christian thought because it seemed like he hadn't been exposed to those perspectives. There is definitely an advantage for the atheists/satanists because they were likely raised Christian and likely grappled with those questions in their own religious journey. Someone who stayed in the religion they were raised likely hasn't been as skeptical of their own beliefs.
I think that this video highlighted the flaws and shortcomings of the Middle Ground format. I definitely think the series has value, but there is definitely an unfairness to it in some (not all) ways.
I would love a 2nd part of that video that goes more in-depth and have discussions about what’s wrong with each religion.
I find religion super interesting too and seeing the reasoning behind the video makes it more enjoyable.
I completely agree with a lot that you said in this video, and I was also kind of disappointed with how people reacted to Richard-Lael in the comments. I think he seems like a really cool person and has a very unique personality, and most people just reduced him down to being rude, when he was just communicating how he felt.
5:12 That tension is definately spiritual warfare. It can be really confusing and a simple Wikipedia search could very easily lead you in the wrong direction, but many people (not only Christians) believe that there is a spiritual realm of angels and demons that is active in our world, even though we can't see them. It is insanely hard to understand and comprehend, but those angels and demons fight and we can feel the effects of that warfare in our physical world. It is amazing and there is so much proof towards this, but it is super hard to explain so if you're more interested, I'd recommend the book This Present Darkness by Frank Peretti since, while it is fictional, it gives you an image of what could be happening. Hoped that can add another dimension to understanding what is going on:))))
Edit: Also, i feel like Shawn didn''t make the point (at least in the video) that Christians believe that humans are destined for hell and for separation from God, but it is because of Jesus' sacrifice that we have the opportunity to be saved. God doesn't banish people to hell, he actually gives people the opportunity to save themselves from going to Hell, its just a matter of accepting that salvation. I know its hard to explain that in a video and maybe it was just edited out, but I feel like I should say something about it since I didn't see anything about it in the comments. Sorry for the long comment!!
That’s what I thought too. I think he was getting very convicted by the Holy Spirit and he was trying to articulate the argument. I think he could have been more clear on what hell is i think too. God bless. 🤍✝️
I feel for Shawn. I respect him, I could understand how he/his spirit felt. As a Christian if I ever sat next to Richard-Lael it'll be like talking to the devil himself.
Full of pride and knows how to attack you with your words. But interesting video... Much respect to Amr and Raigini?
This was my favorite episode of middle ground just on the fact that it was sooo conversational.
Y’all should do a series where two different religious or political views try to flip the other side, kind of like middle ground, but with teens/ college students.
I’m so in love with the way john talks
This brings up so many interesting tensions! I'm a religious studies scholar and I'm going into seminary. As someone who studies comparative religion who has their own faith already - at some point you've more or less got to pick whether to believe none of them at all or all of them! I sometimes describe myself as an Atheist Christian because Christianity is the religious worldview I know, but I see truth being highlighted in all the religions I study, which is the same way I feel when I watch this video. I think it could be interesting to get a group of theologians together to talk with religious scholars, like people who are pastors and religious leaders and people who study those religions but don't necessarillllllly participate in them.
Warning: please people do not click on logans comment of wanna be friends even liking the comment or clicking on his page he can hack your youtube and take other details
who is logan
Woah ive been seeing a lot of his comments everywhere lately.
who is logan
i would love if you guys did part 2s to the most viewed middle grounds. i think like john said there are so many different ppl that identify with a major group and hearing everyone’s opinion is really important
At 19:32 again if Ragini understood what Hinduism/Santana Dharma means she would have rejected that statement. Hindusim never claims to be the only path, in fact, it never claims anyone else to be false either. There is a difference between the cultural aspect of religion and faith aspect of it. Hinduism never fights for the faith aspect of it which is being questioned here.
I don't think this was a product of her not knowing about it, but more that she knew that whatever she said, Richard lael would aggressively dispute it, so it seemed to me that she just didn't think it was worth speaking up about.
@@claranoggle But Richard is not a Hinduism expert. The fact that he didn't realise that Vishnu and Krishna are basically the same. A person with knowledge of their religion could've wiped the floor with Richard.
I don't understand why jubilee keeps refusing to bring in RELIGIOUS muslims to represent us
i loved this style of episode, being able to reflect back and give the directors views and your own thought process! i hope this type of review will continue to be shown on twobilee!
John, I absolutely loved hearing your commentary around this video. Your ideas were so insightful and I feel like they'll help a lot of Jubilee viewers put the video and it's participants into perspective and reinvigorate how people consume Jubilee's content. Your comments at the end regarding everybody's strength made me emotional honestly, super genuine and thoughtful and I'm so here for this second channel.
Jason represented satanism , Richard and lois came across as someone who just needed attention.
no they cut off Lois’s explanation. they were biased when editing
Lois made some videos explaining her side of things, she seems pretty cool
he’s not wrong about bringing in a well informed muslim i feel sorry for the kid being roped in to this my guy was just sitting in the backseat talking about stuff he’s not educating on himself