Can The Army & The Marines See Eye To Eye? | Middle Ground
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
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We believe in the power of empathy for human good. Ultimately, we aim to inspire people to EMBRACE EMPATHY.
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FEATURING
Elliott - / elliott_mckenzie
Mahadi - / mahadi.haque
0:00 Intro
1:32 Cast Introductions
2:02 I enlisted at 18 years old
5:05 My military experience has affected my mental health
8:59 I have felt sympathy for those we've fought
13:15 Drone warfare scares me
19:51 The military receives too much funding
23:07 Trans people should be allowed in the military
27:12 I would encourage my children to enlist
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Развлечения
I love how when they brought up military funding only one person came forth but after hearing him everybody slowly joined in
it's because they needed time to understand the sentence, bless them
@Are You Going To Do The 'Ora Ora' Thing? lee fan? dude he just used a quote from him, and people can make mistakes too. chill out.
His answer is exactly the one I would have given. Yes, too much is spent in some areas, but not the appropriate ones.
@@but0is0it0halal bro what?
@@tonyt3842 it's how they cope with not being exceptional at anything but military spending and incarceration rates, a defense mechanism in a way.
Hey everyone!! I'm Elliott from this video :) I see a lot of comments wishing a female Veteran was involved. PSA......they did invite a female Veteran to be a part of the episode but she couldn't make it to the filming the day we filmed so we were forced to film without her. If you'll notice, there is only 5 of us in the video. The 6th seat was for her but she couldn't make it. Don't get mad at Jubilee. They TRIED to include a female Veteran. SHE couldn't make it. Not Jubilee's fault :)
Semper fi
I love you and thank you so much for your service. People in the Military get the most respect out of me. Thank you so so much
thank u for ur service sir
@Flinn Bella to be fair they compromise 15% of the services and are barred from a certain combat roles, but one more female would have been nice.
Sir I wanna say thank you for your service and everything you have done for our country!
Suggestions:
- Do this episode again with women vets
- Do an officer vs enlisted episode or vs civilians
Also can we get Air Force members too!?!
anti-war veterans too!
they should do Veterans vs. cavillians
YESSS!!! I want this with only women vets!
@@ghanay.2044 or vets vs anti military
The big question that should have been asked: Are the reasons the US has gone to war just?
Yes there is.
The answer to that would lead to the last 5 administrations being sent to the Hague for war crimes.
@@notmytruthTHEtruth lol by by 46
War is never about being just
@@arighteousname5882 loooooool
I wished they could've asked more about civilian deaths, wartime sexual violence, and the ethics of involving the US in foreign wars.
Sexual violence IN the military
@@pancakesbf2704 nah
@@pancakesbf2704 nah
@@pancakesbf2704 ur going back how many years? we can also talk about the my lai massacre if u want too
@@pancakesbf2704 It happens too often in the military and the majority of cases go unreported, the power dynamics and taboo topic of sexual assault creates an environment where sexual assault is very much prevalent.
peter is so intelligent, empathetic and well-spoken. if he had a podcast i would totally listen to it.
YAS!!! I 100% support this!
Wanted to say this too
Peter is on Vet TV
@@mikerios1917 think he’s one of the founders of vet tv
He’s one of the main characters in A combat veteran. Hilarious group of guys.
Drone warfare SHOULD scare anyone and everyone.
Imagine an army of desensitized soldiers who have been conditioned to dissociate the emotional (physically pulling the trigger) and destruction (loss of lives), whom may put warfare vis a vis video games, and not be able to genuinely feel the consequences of their action behind the screen.
That's a solid recipe for massacres from unfeeling killers.
As an Iraqi, I think Drones have made much more sense specially helping fighting ISIS, the less troops on the ground the better. I've witnessed the 2003 war and the 2014-17 war, and that's just my experience. Drone warfare is blow up by media for political reasons
feel like like its just the next step for war technology, I'm sure people made the same argument when we were switching from swords to guns
13:22 That was an excellent quote
@Are You Going To Do The 'Ora Ora' Thing? drone pilots do realize what they are doing. The same as any pilot. They're saving the lives of their brothers and sisters and keeping them out of harms way. But many drone pilots also suffer from PTSD. They know what happens when they pull the trigger, especially when a civilian gets caught in the blast. So don't call them cowards when you're just typing away from your computer not putting anything to the cause. What's cowardly is the use of IEDs, the use of kids carrying bombs, the use of hiding behind civilians.
you eloquated my thoughts so perfectly.
I really appreciate how kind Peter was and how carefully he chose his words when speaking about the Trans soldier. I wish everyone had that support, and had someone to be that respectful to them. Even when they're not in their presence.
He's actually pretty funny too. He's on combat veteran often
@@1-501Infantry I was actually about to ask if that was him lmao
"Case closed."
Hi all! It's Mahadi from the video :) Wanted to address another thing many of you have brought up as to why this is a middle ground episode when we're all just veterans, because our branches of service aren't that relevant to the questions asked. Originally, the episode was more in line with current and former military (younger vs older, etc). Casting changed a lot last minute, but the producers felt that the conversation and questions asked were still valuable to bring up.
I appreciate all of the love and support since this episode was released!
Thank you for saying this, I wondered too why it was before I clicked. Wish this was pinned
Have a great day
Hello Mahadi how are you doing today?
I was wondering that too, it didn’t really matter what branch you all served in. This makes more sense.
I really liked your insights throughout all of the questions
I love how the argument for using drones is it saves the soldiers from PTSD. Thats a recipe for disaster. Soldiers will treat wars like video games.
That’s the point, no hesitations. We aren’t going to be fighting in the Middle East but against China and Russia.
@Minh Khue Le That's just war honestly sadly it can't be avoided.
@@kevinf.1702 it can, but it won't. Selfishness and/or violence is something inherent to almost all beings and as much as we want to pretend otherwise we're the same.
@@conductingintomfoolery9163 its disgusting that you think it's ok to murder Russians and Chinese people.
@Minh Khue Le yeh bro it’s been 4 months and I actually learned history, I’m sorry for that comment and “my” country
I find it really interesting how these guys said they were really bad in school, and yet are so so intelligent and well-spoken. Just goes to show that the school system really fails some ppl.
True !!!!
you can speak well and still not be academically there
We’ll book smarts don’t really translate to practical real life intelligence, and those street smarts and that ease of communication is taught to soldiers, cause you need that in the battlefield.
You can't judge a fish's intelligence by its ability to climb a tree
That’s the irony…our school system is such a mess and the military preys on those very same people. I’d give a lot to speak with any of these dudes in real life.
The blonde guy is awesome, i really liked his point of view and was very balanced
Very well spoken
He was the highlight for me
His glasses were pretty cool designed too. Very intelligent and well spoken individual. Probably an officer?
@@chilliam00 He said NCO at one point. So not an Officer. Senior enlisted, I’m guessing.
same!!! I could listen to him for hrs. everything he said was just so thought thru in made so much sense.
Honestly, this should be done every month with a different set of veteran's from different branches, bring in all female veteran's for another one.... I would go myself just to see what I can learn from other experiences, while also sharing my own
Excellent idea!
I like the idea. Bare minimum: do the episode again with women vets.
Female Vets & Male Vets, since people think that being a female is much worse yet I've seen females get away with things males didn't... veterans that deployed (my brother) & veterans that didn't deploy (me) since people tend to laugh at a Marine with 3 medals, mind you my brother never saw combat, just got to travel..... also my favorite, military members from Rural towns & military members from Urban cities, because being from a city, most guys I served with didn't do "city stuff" which makes it easier to "get cool with people"... there is an endless amount of combinations, and I would rather see this than write paragraphs of what I experienced that get lost in the comment section on fb
It shouldn't be celebrated on that level. Going to war, being a soldier and killing mass amounts of innocent people is glamorized massively already.
I agree, so many branches and topics to dive into. This could be a reoccurring episode
Factual Inaccuracy by Peter
THE ONLY COUNTRY TO HAVE EVER USED NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN COMBAT IS THE UNITED STATES, TWICE, BOTH TIMES AGAINST JAPAN: NAGASAKI AND HIROSHIMA.
Pakistan and India have never once used a nuclear weapon against any country, let alone each other.
Exactly...I thought I was the only one to have heard that...
@Are You Going To Do The 'Ora Ora' Thing? they think its a toy that wins wars...
@Joe Brooks he mentioned use of nukes...not drones...
@@kionnakelly2918 You guys are just using stereotypes.
If we used nukes on each other we’d be done for LOL
They spent most of the video talking about how the military messed them up, but would encourage their kids to join because they can't afford to send them to college? Wtf?
Exactly
Yeah I know, college has become so expensive because of government tuition aid. The government just needs to stop giving guaranteed loans.
@@bicksins9574 college is expensive in the US because your whole post secondary system is a fucked up hypercapitalist hellscape where universities are more worried insane admin salaries and sports teams than research and educating students. Look at the rest of the world where college is affordable if not free, it's not because the gov stopped giving student loans
@@bicksins9574 nothing the government gives is not enough to cover tuition for a whole year, not even with the max amount
@@bicksins9574 college is expensive because of those corrupt capitalist,the US should make College FREE for all people Like in NORWAY!
Military funding is for all the haircuts they give
Lol I love this joke
The military probably has less females because haircuts for women cost 100% more than for men, and they'd need to increase the budget even more if more females joined .-.
You have to pay for your own haircuts in the military lol
True
@@Ctasker5 he's making a reference to the TV show King of the Hill. A military barber give his a haircut while on duty, and the Army charges the friend $235 dollars fot the haircut.
Peter was my Drill Sergeant in 2018. He trained me up through basic. Bravo 3-10. He’s an incredible leader. I love getting to know him and his viewpoints even more now. It was an honor to have him teach me the proper ways of being a soldier and being a leader 🇺🇸
OMG! He sounds pretty amazing 🤩
that’s awesome
He was my DS in 2017, same company… SPARTANS!!
Fort Leonardwood?
I lost my home to a drone strike. The roof literally collapsed over me and my family, but at least Danny isn't scared of them.
I’m so sorry
I'm really sorry.
This is Danny and you are correct I am not scared of them
Sorry that happened to you, but really there’s no reason to twist what he said. The entire room was discussing whether they are afraid of drone warfare or not based on how desensitized it can make people to war. No one was asking if a drone strike is scary because quite frankly that answer is obvious.
Based
Very powerful moment when they started walking foward as Mahadi was talking about military spending. He was aware he was the only one in the middle and sounded apprehensive to speak, but I'm glad he did.
I think what Danny is forgetting is that there are repercussions for taking a life. Nobody should be exempt from these reprecussions. If you feel like killing humans, that are essentially fighting for the same reasons you are, should come without baggage and should be a "game" you are slowly becoming a sociopath.
Exactly
Lol, yes because they are all fighting for the same reasons. You "privileged countries.
You can't become a sociopath.
@@DakotaofRaptors not true
thank you
The country could probably benefit if some of that money was spent public infrastructure and health care
Every Army and Marine starting salary is $10 an hour and the money you say we have we spent on the weapons against the countries who needs our help in fighting against their enemies and for us to fight against our enemies
a trillion likes.
Well America wants people dead, not alive sadly.
Not probably, definitely.
@@happydu1413 Your "enemies" are brown children in Yemen and Palestine. Defund the military.
I don't care how patriotic you are. The US government definitely over spends on the military.
I see alot of people saying that taxing the rich would improve things when y'all know very well the government would waste that money on the military fighting senseless wars
@yoos I didn't state that the rich should not be taxed
my point is that the bigger problem is mismanagement of funds by the government!
Then we should lower spending on Medicaid unemployment and Medicare because we spend the majority of our money on that. Over 50% of the budget is in entitlement programs while only 15% is in the military. This secures our interests and gives us the ability to fight on all continents at the same time. That was the purpose of its size
Military budget is a tiny fraction of the federal budget.
The amount the government spends on dialysis alone is almost equal to half of the entire military budget.
PPP wise Russia and China are actually close to our spending.
Fighting wars isn’t the whole reason the us military budget is to high.
Put the actual numbers and reasoning in front of me and I’ll make an opinion. The problem is transparency which obviously can’t be made in such a classified area. I’m sick of people going “Military budget big numbah!” And form an opinion off of that
@@chris1z142 The military gets over 700 billion. That is 500 billion more than the next country down on the list. Completely ridiculous to pay for so many soldiers to sit around in bases doing fuck all while the homeless starve on the streets at home.
Let’s be honest, the US military has an over budget.
we could defund 400 billion dollars from our military budget and still have the highest military budget worldwide.
@@maybehere_ And many of the countries listed below us in terms of military budget are our allies
Not by gdp percentage
@@mansory7996 by GDP we're second, Russia is 4.3% while we have 3.7% below us is India with 2.9%. It's still reasonable to decrease it.
Sorry mike wasowski, I don’t think I’ll be considering your opinion at all.
I get what Danny is saying about drone strikes, but his claim on mutually assured destruction (corrected by a commentor) as a deterrent does not reign true when we are striking countries who don't have weapons of mass destruction. The economic repercussions don't exist when you are nation who has literal territories making more money than 95% of the nation's.
Drone strikes take out the self affecting cost associated with war and without cost who is to say we don't become more daring.
It's Mutually Assured Destruction.
@@-----------g- thanks lol
Your last sentence, couldn't have said it any better.
And the notion assumes that we are dealing with rational actors. Which humans by nature aren't. We have been very close to nuclear war
You're right, but do you think we can stop the future though? Now that technology is advancing, do you not think some scientist asshole is going to try to at least make some headway making robot infantry, and try to justify it as "well were saving human lives?"
Sociopathic Danny isn’t scared of drones because he’s personally unaffected by them. All those poor civilians in the Middle East are terrorized by drones.
Yeah his take on drones made me a little uncomfortable
And the local dictatorships too!
But yeah, that is not our business.
Only a few months in his presidency Biden bombed some settlements in iraq and Syria
For real. His response on drone wars made him seem completely psychopathic. Completely devoid of any empathy or consideration of the consequences.
Cry snowflake
@@rinkusan978 yeah, those lives will bw gone no matter what and the feeling of "what did i just do" may not be as strong when you dont see the destruction before your eyes... like one of them said, they wouldnt grow as a person if they hadnt gone through the trauma. the terrible truth
Marine Corporal here: thanks for this display of our cultures and relevancies. I would hope to see more discussion like these and hope to expand more minds, as exhibited by these fine upstanding brothers here.
A soldier fights not because he hates what's in front of him, but because he loves what it behind him.
Stupidest thing I've ever heard
"Soldiers rape and drone strikes civilians because they love to see his fronts as subhumans"
Fixed that for you
@@emptyvoid5272bruh, your profile is literally a anime, you’re opinion is invalid.
@@Septal06 You have nothing to refute my point so you just resort to ad hominem. Nice try.
So they love Israel?
There is a fine line between over-spending and investing
Well that fine line has been massively crossed by the US though. Unless we see overseas activities as investing
investing in military is dogshit.
Yes, USA overspends but hey, a public health system is communism... retards
Not rlly a fine line. And even then, the US has crossed that line and is 10 light years past it. The amount of money we pour into the military could have this country at the top by shredding off a couple billion. But no, we “invest” in wars we have no businesses being in, technology we don’t use, and a broken “healthcare” system for equally as broken veterans.
This comment ain't it, sorry
For the ptsd part, I've met tons of veterans on the streets. It sucks that these people and people like them no longer get the human respect and honor they deserve. People like giving the excuse similar to police where "they signed up for it" & "its their job",but that doesnt mean they deserve not be treated like human beings, nor should it stop them from getting the mental health help they need.
India and Pakistan have NEVER used nuclear weapons. The only country that has is USA. @Jubilee needs to fact correct this video ASAP.
They have nuclear weapons tho
@@noahremnek3615 if that’s what was being said then there would’ve been no problem. But was said instead was fallacious and an affront to history.
@jubilee
seriously. the entire world would have been affected if those countries ever used their nuclear weapons. FACT CHECK PLEASE
Well other countries have tested nuclear weapons so yea they use them. Just not for war
This guy who doesn't understand the difference between watching destruction vs drones blows my mind. If I slap someone across the face I feel the contact vs if I press a button. The psychological difference is great. It's harder to be desensitized by war while being BOG vs not.
This is what scares me. People are swatting each other during video game now you want to start using drones to fight wars? The desensitization to killing will be astronomical.
It’s mostly terrorists being bombed in isis so we don’t care
That's not what he's saying though. Like I get what youre saying, but thats not what he's saying.
That's just not true. Drone operators are not conditioned to be unfeeling killers, and in fact suffer from PTSD and trauma at very high rates. Their job literally requires them to look at people on a high definition camera for hours, blow them up, and then stare at what's left for a few more hours. Trust me, they feel the consequences of that, even when they are only killing terrorists (and worse so when they are not).
y’all remember that one black mirror episode?
it's actually so scary how easily and open these people talk about killing innocent people for profit of the rich
Honestly
Based.
That's the truth of what is happening now though. The problem is that people are not scared nor angry enough with the class warfare that the rich has been winning for a long time now.
How do you know they killed innocent people?
@@alanromo703 because in war its the innocent people that die the most
I understand why only one of them went up, but it’s ridiculous to think the military doesn’t receive too much funding. When you consider the fact that NASA has a budget 25bn dollars whereas the military has 600bn, it’s pretty clear the military has too much, when it brings little reward (as other countries have far less military spending).
The others changed their mind later
You right NASA is getting wayy too much. Wasting time
I think it also has something to do with the role of the US military on the global stage. The Philippines (where I'm from 🇵🇭) and a handfull of other countries in asia, are currently under threat by the CCP, and the US military's presence alone is effective in mitigating that threat. Maybe one of the reasons why NASA gets less funding is because they don't have to deal with increasing threats 🤷🏻♂️
I'm not disagreeing with what these vets/service members had to say, I'm simply providing a bit more nuance as a Filipino citizen as to one of the reasons why I think the US militay gets too much funding.
@@AFTWKING I think you missed their point the military is getting way way much more than NASA and NASA is the one building rockets and satellites which are much more expensive than tanks and submarines I myself think NASA's budget is reasonable compared to the 600 billion for the Military
@@j.m.t.p7806 i didnt miss the point i gave an opinion. NASA full of shyt
I'm leaving the military amd I think what was hardest for me was realizing how much of a cult atmosphere we are. Preying on 18 y/o who don't know what to do with their lives or were poor, sending them to war, and using scare tactics to keep them in. Seeing this among the numerous other issues that got people killed made it easy for me to leave; but I worry for the ones I'm leaving behind.
I celebrate you for leaving a toxic relationship! Wish more would wake up instead of letting themselves be used as pawns for pedos greedy monetary desires.
get recruiters out of high schools! Former 0311 (marine infantry)
That's the problem I have with them.
Even just cutting the military budget by 2% would fund SO MANY THINGS. Law enforcement and the military definitely overspend
The biggest problem with the money spent argument is that it is as if the money just disappears...People get the money - the money is spent - Go to any military community - all the civilian businesses surrounding it... if the military pulls out... that community dies...
how is law enforcement overfunded? You do realize how many cities law enforcement in the us are underfunded right?
Deez nutz
I'm happy you are free
Did you say that law enforcement is overfunded 😂 dude, you've never served in the military, relax.
Jubilee please please please do a Middle Ground for Radical Feminists vs. Liberal feminists. It's a very very interesting issue that needs to be discussed
Edit: hit comment? Free PaIestine and Save Sheikh Jarrah 🇵🇸🌊 🖤
Yes yes yes
I don't think radical feminists would out themselves as radical. They'd prolly say that someone isn't a real feminist if they don't act like radical feminists.
Yesssssssss. Tired of people thinking they’re the same thing
@@niamhharikasen7848 well no crap, liberal feminists aren’t even feminists at all. Their idea of feminism is express your body and involve yourself with a lot of sexual activity and girl power.
Add Vaush in it too
These guys almost made me tear up. The military needs constant sessions like this to help service members
This Danny guy clearly went into his service with a bloodlust.
If you’re joining a combat branch of the Military there’s probably more than a 50/50 shot that you’re an undiagnosed socio or psychopath
@@zachhoward9099 No. There's not. You didn't ever try to provide a source. You having this attitude does nothing but further drive a wedge between the military and civilians.
Not true at all. It just goes to show you how truly ignorant you are.
They should have brought in anti-war vets. These guys are just arguing the details or agreeing. What about the fundamental nature of the military itself? A discussion of US foreign policy and the military’s role in that? This video could have been a lot better and actually show two sides instead of a couple variations of the same side
How do you know none of them were anti war?
@@Ctasker5 Because they joined the military, which anti-war people wouldn't do.
@@veRGe02 you have a lot to learn if that’s what you think… it’s not that cut and dry at all.
@@Ctasker5 it never is. but you think staunchly anti war people are running to join the military? Maybe war-neutral people join for the benefits, but fervently anti-war people I think not
@@veRGe02 in the beginning of service, sure, but what makes you think a veteran can’t be staunchly anti-war when they get home from a deployment or out of the military entirely?
I don't understand why this isn't a "do all military folks think the same?" video instead of middle ground? Isn't middle ground for opposing sides to be able to try to understand one another? Soldiers/veterans vs anti-military would be more interesting than this. Also It would be better to include women too.
Totally! I definitely appreciate the spectrum of ideas from an existing group, but “middle ground” makes for the most interesting watch when it’s 2 clear, opposing sides.
Yeah exactly. for the most part they have gone through the same experiences and boot camp and military worklife. Marines more physically demanding sure but theyve all been through it and know how the military works. Theyre all pretty much agree with each other or may agree with them later on when thinking about it. Yeah definitely a "do all veterans think the same" type video
I think the idea was having people who are or have been in the military on to see what opinion they’d have on the prompts and going from there. There were a few that were more diverse in thought as expected but appreciated how they made their case. Some I didn’t expect to be them to be in unity for. The Trans prompt for sure.
@@jenniferhiemstra5228 Yeah and that is exactly what the "do all __ think the same" format is for. Have you seen those videos? They're usually about people from the same group giving their diverse opinions, while middleground is for opposing groups
I would say that Danny needs to be diagnosed by a specialist, because his take on drone warfare was just nuts
Omg I agree.
How was it nuts? He has seen his own brothers come home in body bags, and those who did come home alive came home with some form of ptsd. From his perspective, drone warfare saves the lives of his comrades, therefore he fully supports it
@@cheezy9143 but it kills 15 percent more people
@@garillinho4727 If that's the cost of saving our own soldiers lives then its arguably worth it
@Minh Khue Le you're making gross generalisation and it's sickening.
You act as if drone strikes have absolutely no advantages. Only the state of mind of the locals matter, who cares about the Americans. Americans are not always the villains.
Please do Second Wave/Old-School Feminists And Third Wave/New-School Feminists
that would be pretty interesting!
@@pancakesbf2704 ok incel
@@edithputhy4948 they're not an Incel. Leave him alone and move on with your day
@@joshgomez7522 And what exactly did they win? 😒
Second wave feminist were the worst ones.
Boy did I prematurely judge Dave at the beginning of the video. Glad I was wrong. What a stellar group.
One thing I found lacking in this discussion is how the US military is rooted in imperialism, global capitalism and exploitation of the global south. They talked about their experiences overseas and seeing the poor living conditions the people there had, but there doesn’t seem to be any verbal recognition of the fact that those conditions are a direct result of US imperialism that hinders economic development in those countries.
Totally agree
waiiit that’s so true
Wow! I think you are confused. Yes, the US in the past created all this dictatorships specially about Latin America. Yes, the US have an incredible economic and cultural influence in many countries (China also do this). But no Capitalism haven't makes us poor (I am latin american).
Capitalism and free market habe reduced the poverty of my country (Chile) and many other countries in Latin america and Africa. Thanks to capitalism child manutration was eliminated (With the pandemic returned but still is a huge improvement).
And what wrong with capitalism??? Let me guess, you’re a Marxist
Afghanistan has been the way it is ever since the Soviet occupation, and even before that...
Iraq was thriving in the '70s and 80's, and right before Iraqi Freedom the people were living pretty decent, not under "poor living conditions" for the most part, as you stated.
Vietnam was dirt poor from the Japanese occupation, and the splitting of the country to North and South, not cos of the US, and look where they are now. A very decent not poor, not exactly rich developing country.
So how was it that the countries that the US military has set foot in, were in "poor living conditions" as a direct result of US imperialism?
"The only people who experience the effects of drone strikes are operators"
????¿¿??¿?¿¿?¿?¿¿??¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?
I think he meant on the US side. If Americans become so removed from war, which is what drone warfare does, they become desensitized and disincentivized to stop wars
Seems like none of them joined because they *wanted* to, but because they *had" to.
It feels as if it's beneficial for the military that schools don't prepare kids for adult life and college is inaccessible.
In my country serving is mandatory, so I didn't have a choice, so it was interesting to hear why people who 'have' an option still do.
Trust me when I say this, they all joined because they wanted to
That’s an interesting catch. I always viewed school as an employee factory but I never factored in how the military can benefit from that. In the Meps station I seen the young, immature, optimistic, naive types I used to see in high school and felt pity tbh. They barely even experienced life and they signed their name on the dotted line
That’s the REAL question that needs to be asked
@@thecoyote9866 I’m 33 and shipping this year. Believe me, same…I absolutely know that the military consciously preys on the poor and less educated. I prepared to be the grandma of my entire company 🙃🙂🙃🙂
My father had to operate drones while he was in the Army. He says he is ok but I can really see and feel that he is not. Especially when you here the statistics of how accurate the drones actually are(not very accurate at all). He said something once like he did the statistics and the average percent of accuracy was around 20%. That is absolutely terrible. I feel terrible for them but I know I need to be proud of how brave they are. Me feeling proud, however, does not mean I am patriotic. I hate war. What is does to people is just wrong. I will never be ok with the military. It is a hate hate relationship. I will never go into the military. I will stay as far from it as possible for the rest of my life.
@theflyingjew i have no idea who he dropped them on or what country. I feel like i need to be proud because they put themselves through that mental abuse to serve their country. He stayed in for 20 years so that he could have my sisters, my mom and I live our best lives. So duh i have to feel proud of him for what he has accomplished.
@theflyingjew he was told to do it. It was part of his job as military intelligence. Also the military is mostly government funded and the people running the government are not “billionaires”. Millionaire maybe but not billionaires. He successfully did his job. That is what he accomplished whether that be killing innocents or killing the people who deserve death, he was told to do it and he did it. Now he is mentally scarred for life because of it. Ptsd, anxiety and depression.
i don’t think proud is the right word to use when describing drone attacks, very insensitive
@@emyyyxx I meant proud as in he served his country at the cost of his mental and physical stability.
There's nothing wrong with being proud of your dad. He has a job to do
my boy mahadi looks like he's just made 10k on a trade deal, not in the army lmfao
The minute Danny said “nuc-you-ler” weapons and “mutual self destruction” after taking such a cruel/selfish stance on drones I was very over him
My husband is a second generation army veteran, nothing to do with his dads enlistment, he joined to pay for college. There was no other way to get out of the small small west va town from poverty. The military banks on this.
I love blue shirt guy he brings the philosophies of pain and Thanos and I agree with him so much. When it becomes easy to pull a trigger that's when we lose no one wants to experience pain if my dad could take away all the PTSD and pain he wouldn't cause it reminds him of the cost of war
He really was a highlight
One of my best friends ended his life, stationed in Japan. He was a Marine. He had lost just months before he ended his life his friends in the Sumo 41 accident. RIP Seth Witherup. We will remember you and Sumo 41
R.I.P
🙏🏾
I wonder how they feel being lied to into war and continuing that war for about 20 yrs.
Do you probably have all the answers so enlight us on the truth
They’re not politicians dumbo. That’s not their responsibility
They don’t care, they’ve probably been told or have heard that rhetoric before. I have actual friends who are completely aware of our governments lies and still loved “defending the country” like oookay
Because they are still defending the country. If someone was to attack us who do you would protect the nation?
Being past military, I love loved this. Just hearing the interactions between each service member. Just the way they spoke to eachother, brings me back to my time in. This video was awesome
Would’ve been nice to have a female veteran. We have a story to tell.
I’m sure they attempted to have one on. I just don’t think many people wanted to speak on the subject in that area (given they couldn’t find a 6th member).
@@williamfitzhugh8332 they stated the sixth member couldn't make it at the start of the video.
@@iyannabest6272 Thank you for informing me, I must have been doing something and missed that comment.
@@alexesquivel8566 sounding really mysoginist right there not gonna lie... They asked for one female input.
@@iyannabest6272 The hell's gonna female talk about? Making tiktoks on base?
One of my favorite Middle Ground episodes. It would be interesting to do an episode for each branch.
As an Army Veteran if my kids join I want them to enlist in the Air Force.
I tell all my friends who ask me about joining the Army, go Airforce or Space Force baby.
Same
Yeahp, I’m currently 12 years in the Air Force and work in a joint environment with all branches and there’s a DRASTIC lifestyle and work environment with me vs other branches
Coast Guard
The military funding thing is so true. How do we spend so much, but our gear is still hand me downs from previous wars? It’s almost like the funding always ends up in the wrong place.
Our current military model is oriented around air dominance and power projection (think bases in foreign lands and a robust naval fleet of aircraft carriers). We also spend(and often waste) a lot of money on the acquisition of new technologies. This is all extremely expensive and often leads to some of the ridiculous penny pinching you see when you serve at the grunt level.
When the Marine spoke about helping veterans navigate the VA "gauntlet", I so wish I had someone like him where I live. I served a little over 5 years, active duty Army, and I got out in June of 2011. I'm writing this in March of 2022. I still have not received my disability benefits. I have applied numerous times, told I need to wait because it's a "process", be patient, etc. Then when I call to check on it again, I am told I never applied in the first place. I have now taken my gigantic box of medical records to a Staple's or Kinko's and made copies of the entire thing at LEAST 5 times. I was medically discharged, even though I wanted to stay active duty. I had PTSD and didn't tell anyone. I had three surgeries while I was in, and those surgeries started to take their tolls and make it so I couldn't do PT anymore. I still wanted to stay in, but I couldn't. I have been on the verge of homelessness for the last 8 years straight. If it wasn't for my family letting me stay with them, I would be on the streets. Every time I call an organization to help me, it's always the same thing. Friendly people who are willing to help, but the effort I have to make on my end is too much for me to handle. The day of my appointment, I'm having a super bad pain day and can't get out of bed. Or I have no transportation (there are no VA affiliated companies anywhere near my city so the closest one I know if is about a 20-25 minute drive). Or my PTSD is making me incredibly paranoid. Or I just straight up don't have the money to get gas. These things are all my fault, I know, but I just wish there were other options. I have moved and been kicked out of so many places at this point, I don't even know what happened to my DD214 anymore. The VA now owes me 11 years of back pay (although I know I won't get that because you only get backpay from the date you apply for disability, which they claim I have never done, even though I have applied and had 4 different physical examinations for the process).
Write your congressman or congresswoman or senator.
@@theroadrunnerjarhead4109 I have, a few times. I get automated email responses back.
@@Evravon I’m sorry to hear that. I thought they usually respond to letters from people in the service.
I admire the respect and maturity expressed between all these men. More content showing the experience of veterans is so important. These people go through so much that most us will simply never understand so allowing more people to hear their stories, thoughts, and experiences can really help bridge the gaps.
Blonde guy in glasses happily surprised me
Yes he did! What was it that surprised you about him?
These are the types of conversations Americans need to be having. Thank you Jubilee
Nah Danny, that ain't it.
Danny is a wall street guy now. He was in a wall street middle ground episode. Honestly so happy that he put time and energy into learning a new skill and found financial freedom
Spectrum and Middle Ground, still my favorites! Nothing like having real conversations, and disagreeing with respect. Love it!
The guy(and the people) who said war is/should be a business is psychotic.
It's just a fact. There's nothing psychotic about it. And, that really sucks.
@@TN-br9yl there's a difference between recognizing it as a business and supporting it being treated as one, this guy did the latter and defended it as such, which is psychotic.
@@gregs9210 I really didn't catch anyone who supported war being treated as a business. Do you remember where in the video?
@@TN-br9yl its implied when someone says "war is business", since nobody is suggesting that businesses don't profit from war.
@@gregs9210 He just said war is a business. He didn't say it SHOULD BE.
"It's special the connection you make being part of an organization" yes honey its called trauma bonding
stockholm syndrome and jingoism
Trauma bonding occurs when someone experiencing abuse develops an attachment for their abuser. Fact check please
@@aishee5961 yeah that's why they just love their captains so much.
Hahahah you have no clue what the military is like at all😂 “You feel unhappy and may not even like your partner any longer, but you still feel unable to end thing” that’s the definition, I LOVE the people I have worked for and with. Empathy, love and compassion. Its not us coming together to hate something
@@veronicatorresvanegas7079 our captains are not the ones hazing us or doing bad things, platoon Sgt. And NCOs do, yet they were the ones diving in grenades and sacrificing themselves for us. Please shutup
This is the most respectful group I've seen in this series so far, and that's saying a lot because Jubilee has done a great job of keeping things civil.
My brother just came from basic training, and he was telling me how much brand new stuff everyone was throwing away. Shampoos, blankets, bags, etc. He said there were piles of it.
I think that’s because of reception bud. It’s called contraband
Contraband search and amnesty
omg.. i love hearing the voice of the older brown gentleman with the red vest…😅
He's legit, right. 😉😁
The drone prompt was interesting because how they feel drones desensitize the horrors of killing, you could say the same about the evolution from sword to firearm. Imagining how absolutely gruesome hand-to-hand warfare was is almost unimaginable. Seeing axes in comrade's faces, screaming wounded just laying on the battlefield as they are trampled, men screaming in rage as they run at you with spears
The self awareness from dave is super admirable. To admit you are the issue on a socially contentious issue is very difficult. Even if he has some boomer tendencies.
The welcome home at the end warned my heart respect to all those casted.
Don't tell me that Danny is the same guy from the investing video. He's combative AF, physically and argumentatively.
Ok, Extremely Gay™ is so iconic. I'm so shocked at how delicately they handled the trans service prompt. I didn't necessarily expect them to be transphobic, but it wasn't just a brute "it is what it is" or simple case. They really went there with the nuance, and that's commendable.
That's exactly why they brought him back on. Jubilee is a for-profit operation in a non-profit wrapper. They don't care about the quality of the conversation, they care about views and money.
@@MJ_M I totally get that, but he seems like the type to demand to be in more videos because he thinks he's so much smarter and better than everyone else. Look at how disassociated he is about drone warfare. He's framing it as protecting the soldier pulling the trigger and doing the strike, but even hunters understand the ethics and morals behind killing their prey humanely and intimately. Danny is trying to Mortal Kombat FINISH HIM everyone like they aren't people, which is textbook ignorant, not even seeing others as human or equal.
I thought I recognized his ignorance lol
He didn’t come across as a “veteran” at all. I’d question if he even served in the military, or was a paid actor for this.
I’m late to the party but… I served 10 yrs, my family has had members in every war since wwII, all in parachute infantry regiments (bct now). I have been to iraq 3x and Afghanistan once. My plan was for my son to continue this tradition but after the way it has been for me after coming home…. Absolutely not. I was screwed by the unit when I said I was not reenlisting. They took my squad from me and made me report and sit in the training room office all day, everyday until 48 hrs prior to my ets. I gave them 10 yrs and that is how I repaid. They “lost” my jump log so I had to randomly pay back years of jump pay out of the leave I sold back to the army. I performed my last jump 2 weeks prior to ets because… why not? But there was no record of me jumping in years, although I literally jmpi’ed the 1sg. I had to sell a lot of my stuff just to have money to get home. Upon returning home, I was severely depressed and had horrible anxiety. It took over 18 months for me to even get into the VA, and I was already much worse from self medicating. I could go on all day but why bother. Make your own choice, but my son’s decision is not his until he is no longer under my roof and I only need to tel him the truth to discourage him.
I have mad respect for all of the service members and veterans. I really enjoyed this episode of middle ground.
That title though. Do we spend too much on cookies? Oreo and Chips Ahoy debate this.
Anyway, abolish the military.
@@elikirk2800 ah, hi chinese shill. I thought you werent supposed to be on youtube.
This should've been Navy vs Marines, that would be a sight to see
The marines are a part of the navy? Also a lot of sailors see action and was apart of the middle easter conflicts within the past years. Please don’t make statements off of stereotypes.
Air Force vs Marines would be WAY better
@@pancakesbf2704 Navy Vs Marines Vs Coast Guard.
@@pancakesbf2704 Air Force Vs Space Force?
I agree with Elliot on his stance on the middle ground. There's opinions but also a fact being pros and cons of drone warfare. I'm 100 with him.
I would really like to see the uncut versions of all of these posted.
The way peter talked is so strict. SO COOL
He’s pretty great
well that's expected of a former Drill Sergeant heh
Intersectional feminists vs liberal feminists would be an intresting one
It would be but are liberal feminists really going to own up to having a huge fault in their advocacy? Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but I just think they wouldn't want to admit they could be doing a lot better. I guess if they're really radical and think intersectionality isn't needed. I don't know.
The problem is Liberal feminist think they intersection.
lol liberal feminists are the intersectional feminists
The thing I love about this is how different it is from some of these, because end of the day you could have asked about almost anything, and they could have disagreed the whole time, but at the end of the day they would not be enemies. They have experiences that means no matter what else happens, they can still sit and discuss things civily.
Peter is a leader! Prob a senior NCO and I would follow him into combat and day of the week
This was a fantastic conversation and I enjoyed watching it very much
Both sides share the same overall experience. This should've been a Spectrum episode. Army vs Pacifists would've been a more interesting Middle Ground episode to watch
They have that episode actually.
They made one look it up.
They're all soo amazing! I like Peter he sounds amazing.
Right? I’d love to hear his thoughts on other stuff going on in the world
Can we get a part two, theres so many more questions that could be asked. Include a female veteran as well. Loved the episode!
Frankly, this conversation was one of the better Middle Grounds I've seen and I was particularly impressed with Peter's thoughts and eloquence in expressing them
Peter really was a gem in this.
All of them being respectful is 👍
Here’s my take on this, the borderline point of this all is the VA benefits and mental health institutions. The mental and physical scars incurred in battle are then forgotten amongst their entrance back into society. If the military’s budget seems extravagant might as well help those after the fight is over for them. Depression and PTSD don’t go away but there should be people who help them work with it. Congress’s inability to come up with a bipartisan agreement and pass a congressional order to help those even though they sent them to war in the first place makes me lose hope. Vietnam vets still say they see demons every night because they have no help of calming down their mental blemishes. That you for your service guys.
Amazing video as a 20 yo guy considering joining the military very informative and a great listen.
That "not against or for anybody" was spot on. I'm not a soldier but Ik many veterans and they all have opinions(cuz they are human ofc) but they are truely for the ppl.
That was so powerful how that one guy changed every single one of their minds on how much the US spends on the military.
Please please please do this again, as well as female soldiers, and every avenue you can take with this. These people's voices are some of the most important in this country as they have sacrificed so that the rest of us can enjoy the many comforts we do. This is easily the most fascinating episode of middle ground I have watched, and I try to catch them all.
They tried to have a female vet but she couldn't make it
There was a female veteran, she was the 6th member but she couldn’t make it
Such a melancholic vibe...
This helps. Thought I was the only one. I respect the realism, as opposed to hiding it behind dark jokes as I've been doing, yet it chips away at you when you're alone and freshly out. Thank you for the great content, and thank you for your service gentlemen 🙏🏽
Can we all agree that Peter was awesome?
YES 😍
As a vet and R&D engineer who was in acquisitions, we definitely didn't choose the lowest bidder every time. Bc we were often the ones asking for new tech, our spending was so much more for that first one to be developed than anyone else piggybacking and not having to spend on all that R&D. We spent a lot of money to try and get best value.
I’ve seen so many of the Middle Ground videos and have always learned something. But holy guacamole this did something to me…
As a future soldier shipping later this year who’s process of getting to that point was 3 years, and because of it, had nothing but time to mull over what I was getting into and the info I’ve learned about all these topics brought up here…it was a lot for me to take in. The self awareness on display here is just immense and I applaud this so much.
There’s so much I love about this, and I don’t even know if I can hit them all, but the power that all 5 were united in that trans should be allowed to join and that Mahadi was able to make his case about military funding and the other 4 wavered and joined him…just wow. This video should be required watching for service members, vets, and civilians alike. Truly, this is what the internet was created for 💕💕💕💕💕💕
Heck I’d want to be in the female version of this down the road if there is one planned!
We need more of these please!!!!!!