Def Leppard went from a Hard Rock band with great riffs to a Pop rock band. Their first three albums are MASTERPIECES! The change was not for the better in my opinion.
In fairness they were ultimately limited by Rick Allen’s accident...I have the utmost respect for them for sticking fat and is the sole reason I love Hysteria as much as the first 3 albums, the fact that they released anything at that point was legendary
Bands that changed their sound for the better: Thin Lizzy: I know a lot of people cherish the Eric Bell era, but for me, Thin Lizzy didn't become the badass band that I love until they got the classic lineup of both Robo and Scott Gorham and started playing harder, heavier more rocking material. Saxon: Don't get me wrong, I love Saxon's earlier stuff to death, but their shift from traditional metal to power metal on Killing Ground was a very natural and welcome change of pace which I think has only made an already great band even better. Bathory: I'm not an extreme metal fan at all, but I do enjoy a few black metal bands here and there, and Bathory is one of them. That said, while I do enjoy the first three black metal albums, it's probably no surprise I have a preference for the viking metal and even thrash metal style material that was being put out from Blood Fire Death onwards. Where they changed their sound for the worst: Metallica: Not much to say that hasn't already been said by many before. Started out practically spearheading 80s thrash metal before selling out to the mainstream and becoming what they are now.
For the Better: (The) SWEET--From bubble-gum pop like 'Funny Funny' into glam masterpieces like 'Ballroom Blitz' - - 'Fox On The Run' into heavy metal epics like 'Set Me Free' - - 'Sweet F.A.' - - 'Windy City' into progrock with 'Love Is Like Oxygen' From 'Funny Funny How Sweet Co-Co Can Be' via SWEET Fanny Adams--Desolation Boulevard - - Strung Up - - Give Us A Wink - - Off The Record into Level Headed... And, let's not forget the brilliant 45 B-side's!! STAY SWEET!! 🤩
@@petervanbuskirk500 Hard disagree there, I think Pale Communion is their second best album after Ghost Reveries, I find the newer albums to be more slowburns/growers, especially Pale Communion which just blows my socks off. I just really like all their albums, Morningrise, My Arms, Blackwater Park, Watershed, In Cauda Venenum, i'll take it all. The only one i'm not so huge on is Sorceress (which is petes favorite).
Clapton on his very first solo album - completely ditched the guitar hero thing of Derek, Blind Faith, Cream etc and wanted to be known as a songwriter like JJ Cale or Leon Russell, laid-back roots rock. A definite downgrade and he's never really recovered.
Totally agreed! Clapton is only as good as his collaborators. When he's in a real band like Cream, Blind Faith, or Derek & the Dominoes he can really shine, but as a solo artist he really has no chance. Can't say I truly like anything he's done solo.
I have to admit that i agree with that because his music has never recovered after his heroin years from 1970 till 1974. Before that his guitarplaying in cream and derek etc. were second to none really raw and unpolished but from 461 ocean boulevard till today he became a softrocker in the vein of rod stewart and wings he actually turned into just another popsinger which was sad i think but if he's a happy man doing that then he's a happy man
I think The Beatles are a big example of changing sound and getting better. i wasn’t a huge fan of their first few albums but then we get Revolver and Sgt Pepper and MMT and so on. i think those albums are way better than their earlier stuff.
Obvious choice, agree. The first albums are sweet pop albums but by Rubber Soul you can tell they want to do something different and from Revolver and onwards, the albums are just masterpiece after masterpiece where they change how music and albums are recorded.
Yep, such a shame. Uli was perfect for the band, brought a completely new dimension. Life’s like a river, Longing for Fire, Hell Cat, Sails of Charon, Crying Days.... insane stuff. I do enjoy Blackout as well, but that’s pretty much it for me.
I love the 80's stuff, but they peaked with Love at First Sting which is still a great album. Of course I grew up with this stuff, my brother had World Wide Live which I listened to so many times. It was only in the age of mp3's did I discover their early stuff which I dig as well. Savage Amusement and on was disappointing to me, though to be honest I haven't heard anything past Winds of Change.
@ agree...Terry Kath was the heart of the band...David Foster turned them into a back up band for Peter Cetera
4 года назад
@@claytonchaney9171 you have to see the David Foster Bio he did on Netflix? A great studio musician, producer, writer but a MAJOR ASS he comes across. He admits to being a bad son and cheating husband!
The 1st band that comes to mind is Def Leppard, the 1st two albums were good hard rock almost metal albums, then Phil collen joins who is a good guitarist but he turned them into a pop band.
Bands That Changed for Better 1. Journey (Starting in 1978) 2. Bethlehem (Starting in 2016) Bands That Changed for Worst 1. Bethlehem (Starting in 2001 thru 2014) 2. Metallica (Starting in 1991) 3. Queensryche (Starting in 1990) 4. Bon Jovi (Starting in 1992) 5. Fates Warning (Starting in 1994) 6. Anvil (Starting in 1987) 7. Entombed (Starting in 1991) 8. TNT (Starting in 1987) 9. Nightwish (Starting in 2007) 10. Dokken (Starting in 1995)
Can I suggest that it would be a good idea if the guys could either sit nearer to their microphones or get better ones. I can’t hear some of the things they say and I have great hearing. The sound is muffled and/or distant. Love these rants and I don’t want to miss a thing, 😂
Metallica took a lot of flack for "betraying" metal here on the show but to me what Def Leppard became in the 90s was flat out sickening considering how great they were in the early days.
Def Leppard not only tried to jump on the alternative bandwagon, they were also talking crap about classic rock bands during their Slang era. Totally agree w you.
The Hysteria album was a good album but it was the beginning of the end for that band with me. I couldn’t stand half the songs on it but liked some of the other ones immensely. Pyromania was the last great thing that band did.....from beginning to end it’s a classic!
A band that changed for the better to me is Dying Fetus. Their songwriting is continuing to improve and their last two albums are masterpieces! Love the early stuff too, but these last two albums are amazing.
Yep that's one band that I would have to say that got less desirable after the first few records Scorpions is another band that sounded better their first few stents ....also Motley Crue's first three albums were their best as well ... And I guess I have to admit also that Def Leppard's right in that category as well.... So those are just a few off the top of my head, however Rush was and always will be amazing,.. yet their first few albums were their best. I really liked everything from R.u.s.h's debut album entitled Rush All the way up to the best 2112 and of course 81"s Moving Pictures Lp and last but not least Grace Under Pressure had a couple of decent songs everything was downhill from then on.
As a pro keyboard player , the 80's Rush was a huge influence ...I know old geezer guitar players are now reconsidering that period...alternate tunings etc...recognize....
THis is the one I immediately thought of, and I enjoy MI but MII is levels above. I know quite a few people who would also list Purple on the other side with the MIII increasingly going bluesy and then MIV w/Bolin doesn't quite hold up to MII. One of the best reunions after that mess.
Pete, I saw Queensryche on their American Soldier tour and it was a sold out house. I do agree with you though that everything after Promised Land was MUCH WORSE, but they did still have some great songs sprinkled throughout, even with Geoff's ever deteriorating vocals. Imo, their best years were from 1982 (when they recorded their EP) to 1995 (the end of the Promised Land tour).
My only regret about this show is that I had to wait until Tuesday morning to watch. Glad to see the return of Steve Keeler and his singing to the SoT broadcast. Always some laughs and some great discussion. My better to worse list would have to include Chicago [who started with three great double albums - unbelievable] to the saccharine schlock later in their career and Aerosmith. As a child of the 60s, my 'getting better' list would have to be the Beatles throughout their time as a band and the Beach Boys up to a point and then they began to slide into more mediocre albums and songs. Great stuff, guys! Looking for more of this must-see show next week.
while the Frost SUCKED with "Cold Lake", 20 years later they released their absolute masterpiece in "Monotheism". Not many records - by any band - can beat "to Mega Therion", yet the Frost topped themselves here!
Might have to check out Monotheism, haven't paid attention to them since the 80's. Although Into the Pandemonium was my introduction to them on a poorly copied cassette tape and probably my favorite.
i know im in the minority here, but i hate Monotheist, i respect the band for doing it and as a "work of art" i have some appreciation for it, but to my ears the music its just tedious goth/doom. But hey, at least has more artistic integrity than that fucking "Prototype" demo (or "cold lake" for that matter).
For the better- OPETH....the early music/ instrumentation is great but I have a hard time with growl vocals. Mikael’s natural voice is beautiful. For the worse- The Sword.... my god the first 3 albums are an AMAZING riff festival. Maybe two decent songs on High Country. Used Future is nearly a total loss. WT hell. We don’t need a ZZ Top “ refresh”. Whatever they are trying to accomplish ZZ Top does it better 🤷♂️. Also, I agree Pete, the Queensryche “shitty era” was one of the most epic downfalls in rock history.
@@b2tall239 I prefer the earlier stuff even though I don't like the growl stuff normally. They were the one band that did it well- Also their later music lost its edge and became TOO orchestral for my tastes and complex for it's own good. Who wants to be impressed shallowly?? I want to be MOVED deeply-like the Doors stuff still does after 50 years. Still good but not as good or visceral - A lot of music is ruined by an obsession on technique vs the power of breakthrough emotional inspiration. Opeth are a very very good band. My faves being >Blackwater Park, Damnation, Ghost Reveries. For me downhill after that though.
I think UFO definitely changed their sound for the better in the 70’s. As great as those two space rock albums are, I think they finally found their way when Schenker joined the band, and eventually Paul Raymond. In the early 80’s, UFO’s sound became arguably too commercial, but I enjoy those albums. UFO’s has been always at least somewhat accessible. Other bands who changed their sound for the better: Steamhammer- a cool blues rock band to a cool prog band. Pink Floyd- trippy psychedelic rock music to very focused, concept driven music. As far as bands who changed their sound for the worst, I’ll go ahead and throw Buffalo out there. Although I like Mother’s Choice and Average Rock N’ Roller for what they are, they are definitely more commercial than their first three, and not quite as good. Very enjoyable show as always though!
Yes Metallica changed a little but load and reload are awesome and nine lives was a pretty good Aerosmith album from 1997 pretty heavy in places but everything since has been awful
Agreed about Aerosmith. Every later song sounds the same....”Cryin’ Crazy, Crazy Cryin’....same tempo and structure and no druggy edge anymore....Dream On
Blind Guardian are one of the most consistent bands ever. They would be my choice for a band that just keeps getting better with time. Personally I'm not the biggest fan of the first two albums, but every album since is a masterpiece in my opinion. And I'm not sure I agree with the opinion they are losing people with the new stuff. Maybe losing some, but certainly gaining many new fans.
It's funny b/c Queensryche qualifies for both categories. They changed their sound for the worse, then changed it again for the better. As for my pics: Better: Red Hot Chili Peppers - I know there are people who love their earlier, Funk Rock stuff, but I tend to prefer their more melodic stuff. It was apparent on Blood Sugar Sex Magic and they leaned more into it on later albums like Californication and By The Way. They still retained some of those funky elements, but the songwriting became more melodic, more mature, and in some cases more "chill." Songs like Otherside, Californication, & The Zephyr Song is the stuff I tend to gravitate towards. Worse: Coldplay - Yes, I like Coldplay, sue me! I really likes their first 4 albums. I thought their music was interesting and melodic and the antithesis to the Pop-Punk stuff that was dominating most of the Rock scene at the time. However, with Mylo Xyloto and onward they started leaning hard into mainstream Pop music. Their music became more synthesized. There was lots of trendy production & pop star collabs like Beyonce and Rhianna. They also started working with EDM and dance music producers like Aviiccii. I just can't stand it. They went from an interesting alt Rock band to just another dance/pop band like Maroon 5 and the like.
The Cult were a cool gothy band with with “Love”. For many 80’s kids who liked moodier UK bands, they fit the bill. Then 2 years later, Rick Rubin tries turning them into AC/DC with the big riffs. They even begin to look like an American biker bar band. Still, the tunes on “Electric” are good and overall it’s forgivable. Nonetheless, The Cult spend the next several years seemingly chasing trends and losing what made them cool (to me at least) on “Love”.
Totally agree their psychedelic goth sound on Love was epic and galvanizing. Then they started chasing trends(metal???) and never found a true sound or identity. Too bad
For better: JEFF BECK when became just instrumental; BEATLES from "Rubber soul" on; DEEP PURPLE with the arriving of Gillan and Glover. For worse: RENAISSANCE from "Time line" on; NAZARETH from "Sound elixir" on; RUSH from "Power windows" on; MARILLION without Fish.
I agree with Anathema as change for the better. The first three times I heard “Untouchable Part 1 and 2” (played it three times back to back) I wept. Beautiful! Good to worse? Genesis! Legendary prog to pop crap.
I have no problem mentioning Celtic Frost as a band that changed for the worst with the releases "Cold Lake" and "Vanity / Nemesis." However, I'm not sure how you guys didn't spend more time talking about their final album "Monotheist." Not only is it as good as "Morbid Tales" and "To Mega Therion", but it is one of the greatest comeback albums in metal history. Oh well, just my .02 cents. Thanks for an interesting episode. There were some great choices by everyone. For the better: Enslaved (love everything, just prefer "Below the Lights" to present more) For the worst: Genesis
@@cheezesteak Hey Chris, fair enough. I know you guys are pressed for time. Maybe "greatest comeback albums" could be a future episode if it hasn't been done already.
Genesis went from a 70's prog band to an 80's adult contemporary band so they changed for the worse. Also, Synchronicity by The Police isn't a bad album by any means, but it doesn't hold a candle to the youthful freshness of Outlandos d'Amour or Reggatta de Blanc. Then there is Pink Floyd...Wish You Were Here sounds nothing like The Dark Side of the Moon. Animals sounds nothing like Wish You Were Here. The Wall sounds nothing like Animals. A change for the better? It's just a matter of opinion. To me I dig all of those albums. I even like certain parts of The Final Cut but that's where my love of Floyd ends.
David G. said about "The Final Cut"...."If they were not good enough to be on the last album...then why are they here"?.....of course the Floyds "throw aways"are better than anything I could come up with....
For Better: - Iron Maiden after 2000 - their prog direction gained them hordes of new fans & modernised their 90s sound. - Saxon after 1997- Their modern Power Metal direction has been great - Helloween after 1994 - saved them from being another early 90s casualty. Opeth - Love their 70s inspired prog direction -Tiamat after Wildhoney - created their own gothic/Doom style -Therion after Theli - created their unique Symphonic Metal sound - Iced Earth after 1995 - Addition of Matt Barlow revolutionised their sound
They went through so many different periods. I'm probably like you, I started out with the Stevie Nicks era and that's Fleetwood Mac to me (weirdly enough I was turned onto them by my college roommate who had a garage metal band--go figure), but I've heard a lot of people who prefer their bluesier early music and hate their "slick" late seventies sound.
Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac is nothing like the line up that gave them the most success, the original Fleetwood Mac is still my favorite period of the band, I can’t listen to the Nicks and Buckingham period, just does nothing for me anymore. I even go back and listen to some of the Bob Welch period like “Bare Trees” before I would listen to their commercial era stuff, I think it’s bland and way overplayed.
Clayton Chaney hahaha, they did as did many artists, you know a song written by Child because it’s always one of the worst songs you’ve ever heard, I always say, we know who to blame for shitty music in the 80’s, it’s Desmond Child.
Very good show!! What happened to Queensryche almost happened to Helloween. Very curious phenomenon happened to many bands. Think of what would have happened if both Dickinson and Halford had stayed in Maiden and Priest. Both wanted to do different things, just like Tate and Kiske, but that desire ruined what they had going in their original bands. So they all went out to test the waters but to this day all of them, except Tate, have come back into the fold.
As a Genesis fan from the start, I was very dismayed when they went down the commercial road. I can’t bear anything after Wind And Wuthering. From sublime early albums to the absolute crap of Duke onwards. It was a crime what they did. They should have changed the name of the band to “The Sellouts”. I thought Pete would have picked Genesis for the Good to Bad. 😁
I think Duke is a great album, same with And Then There Were Three. I recognize Abacab, S/T and Invisible Touch don't even remotely hold a light to their best albums of the 70s, but I think they're alright pop albums.
Worse: Chicago, U2 Better: Meat Puppets, Husker Du, Thin Lizzy As for Metallica, I think the biggest issue was the length of the Load and the Reload albums. Cut out the 25 minutes of filler on each and those albums have actually aged well.
@@alexjohnston8889 Load: Cure, Thorn Within, Mama Said, Poor Twisted Me, Ronnie Reload: Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, Bad Seed, Carpe Diem Baby
For staying great the whole time, the German band Kraan. Been around since about 1972, changed with the times. Always sounded great to me through all the changes. Their new album "Sandglass" comes out in a few days.
I like to live in a fantasy world where Load, Reload, and St Anger don’t exist so that I can feel better. At least I wasn’t alive to experience that heartbreak first hand.
How do you guys feel about Heart? I'm torn. Their 70's stuff was good obviously and they made a big change in the 80's but I actually kinda like their 80's stuff too, lol.
Agreed! Can't really get into any Genesis post-Duke. There are a couple tracks here and there on some of those albums, but overall unlistenable for me.
@@keviniles8748 I was never keen on much post-Hackett, but have since reassessed Duke as a pretty good prog-pop album, despite some real stinkers on it (e.g. Misunderstanding). Home by the Sea tracks sort of returned to this a bit, and Mama was a good pop song, but most of the post Duke stuff was terrible.
You have a great show Pete, but it would be so much more mature & enjoyable if you would have your guests stop dropping all the f-bombs. What are they; 13 years old? If they grew up your show would be MUCH better. Thanks for listening. You're terrific & speak like a man.
Janice Kates come on man, it’s his show and let him do what he wants, if he wants to cuss he can cuss, I love the show either way, having the swearing makes it more laid back and at home 🤘🤘🇺🇸keep on rocking Pete you you do you
@@katesjanice I never took offence to any blue language....I'm sure RUclips would step in if need be...I respect and even agree with your desire to be more cordial...I got children here too....but hey ...Its Rock-n-Roll we be dealin with
For better: Journey when they brought in Steve Perry For worse: U2 after 2000's "All That You Can't Leave Behind". Not to say there were some good songs here and there after this point, but they went from being daring and willing to experiment with their sound, to making bland wannabe-Coldplay rock and playing it very safe with each album. And Pete was 100% on the money with Queensryche.
Hafersten Productions I’d go so far as to say for U2 it was the Joshua Tree and Rattle Hum (although some may strongly disagree). I think the JT is a great album but with that tour, they became a mainstream band and far less interesting. The first three albums had a post punk energy and the Unforgettable Fire was sonically very interesting/textural and they still had driving tunes like “Wire”. That said, I like JT but something of U2 was lost around that time. AB was a good album that made me interested again but then they lost it with subsequent albums.
Hafersten Productions you are giving too much leeway to U2, they blew their wad after “Pop”, just kept making the same album over and over, they got rich and perform bombastically overblown stadium shows charging exorbitant prices for tickets, they are by far the most boring successful band in music, a close second is Foo Fighters.
I agree with regards U2, although I haven’t liked them since ‘Zooropa’. The biggest problem I have with them is their obsession with staying relevant, to compete with the young acts of the era. In a way it’s laudable, but it just ends up embarrassing. I wish they’d accept that they are elder statesmen, get the delay pedals out of the pawnshop and make some epic rock music again like they used to. Every band has to change - change is good - but you get this feeling with U2 that a lot of it is just about money now, shoring up their business empire for another financial year.
Patrick Crowther and David Evans should remove that permanently attached cap from his bald head and let it go. They are like teenagers trying to hold on to their youth and ol’ Paul Hewson should shut up and just sing.
For me, 1991's Achtung Baby is the last U2 album worth listening to in its entirety. Every album since then has about 4 good songs on it and the rest of the songs are forgettable.
Unpopular opinion here but... For the better - Anthrax when John Bush replaced Joey Belladonna. For the worse - Anthrax when Joey Belladonna returned after John Bush.
I don’t particularly like the albums they released with Bush aside from an odd song here or there but man, he’s such a better vocalist than Joey. Eight days a week and twice on Sunday. No argument on that! 🤣
Move for the worse - Trower when he thought he could do the vocals on his own records. I mean not only is he a bad singer but he's following Jimmy Dewar, Jack Bruce and Davey Pattison on vocal duties in the band. Suicide.
The first one that jumps out for me is Opeth. I was never a big fan of Death Metal so I never listened to much of them and eventually forgot about them. It was here on Pete's channel that I learned that they had changed their sound to more of a "prog metal" sound so I gave them a chance. Absolutely fantastic. Love their 4 most recent albums. Rainbow was a band that went through numerous sound changes, seemingly with each new lead singer. I love all their incarnations and sounds. Shout out to Nick for the LOTR reference!
For the better -- Uriah Heep. The were a bit Spinal Tap until Thain joined and they went to another level. More bands have a vital period and then a decline. Metallica, YES, Grand Funk, all did great stuff and then ran out of ideas. Some continue to improve and then go dry, such as RUSH and Queen. And Iron Maiden went from being good to absolutely awesome, and then after 7th Son they were completely dreadful.
Obvious one here but Deep Purple going from the Fudge inspired first 3 albums to the MK2 era that made them megastars. Became much heavier, dropped the silly covers, Gillan and Glover changed the songwriting style entirely. Then - and this may not be a popular one but I LOVE it - MKII changing to the funky, groovy MKIII and IV with Coverdale, Hughes and Bolin showed they could change for the better AGAIN.
I've been watching and enjoying your videos since March 2020 and you've really made my isolation days better. So many great topics and guests. Keep doing what you do because it's awesome. I have a suggestion for ranking the albums. How about the ultimate prog rock opera project called Ayreon? Cheers from Serbia! 🤘🏻🍻
Great rant as always! Changes, conformity! When their new songs do not sound like their old songs fans rage. When their new songs sound the same as their old song fans rage. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Keep it up!
For the worse (Strangely this means making much more money lol....) Chicago.....Def Leopard....Reo Speedwagon...Styx...Aerosmith (caveat... the sappy romance ballads seemed to gain more and more of the the spotlight ,and any rock they tried got weak and placed in the shadows.
For the worse- ZZ Top in the eighties For the better- ZZ Top Rhythmeen a welcome return to the greatness of the 70’s. Love these shows hopefully they will remain a fixture on Monday nights in the long cold winter ahead.
The group I am going to mention did not go into a radical change, but gradually moved to where they are now. Opeth has amazing death growls and really crunchy guitar metal. Ghost Reveries has a good mix of both growls and clean, and I LOVE both equally. I know many "fans" of Opeth and Mikael felt "betrayed" by Heritage, but I LOVE the record. If people were surprised by Heritage, they did not pay attention to the musical direction of previous albums. Growls to Growls/Clean to Clean. I like all the stages of this group. Growth is not bad, and Mikael and Opeth prove this quite ably.
But they never stayed with the Roots sound... sure they’ll always incorporate Brazilian influence into their music, but they stopped the Brazilian groove/Nu metal at one point.
Great episode! Agreed with all of the bands mention. Bands who got better part, first 2 bands I thought of were Katatonia and Enslaved, couldn’t believe they were the first 2 talked about. I band that hasn’t been as good is Sepultura. A few albums post Max have been pretty good, but when Igor left I felt they should’ve changed their name. Max and Igor formed the band, not knocking Derick Green or the drummers they’ve, it’s just weird to see Derick sing songs that Max wrote that were personal to him. I’m not saying the band is terrible, but it’s just when I see the name Sepultura and here Max’s vocals and those early albums were so good and yes I even like the Roots album.
Definitely what the other guy said about Def Leppard. They were awesome on their first 3 albums. After Pyromania when the accident happened most people thought they were finished, then the news of a new cd was out. Well, the cd came out and what a hunk of complete garbage. The sad part is, people loved it.
For me, the good to bad isn’t the band itself, but the lineup. The Ozzy era Sabbath. They follow up the greatness of Sabotage with two albums that sounded like a try at radio friendly songs. ‘You won’t change me’, ‘It’s alright’, ‘All moving parts’, ‘A hard road’. Most of the songs on Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die were boring and plodding.
Rush have changed so much over the years. Heavy metal, hard rock with progressive elements, then full on progressive rock, followed by more commericial, arena rock, THEN pop rock with synthesizers during the 1980s. Then Rush just said fuck it and went back to being a hard rock band for the rest of their career
@@russdavies9686 I can listen to Rumours but anything later is absolutely rubbish. The Welch/ Weston/ Christine McViie middle period band was way better than the Buckingham/Nicks era but will never top the original line-up.
For the worse: Alice Cooper going solo and pantomime, the performance of lace and whiskey on the Johnny Carson show with dancing chickens is just embarrassing.
The Stones changed their sound for the better with Beggar’s Banquet. They were mainly a rock and blues band, but they were (it seems) trying to sound like the Beatles. When they accepted that they were a rock/blues band, they went from good to great.
Thanks for another great show guys. I want to thank Pete Pardo for turning me on to Anathema. They have been so important in getting me through this year. When I heard they were playing near me in January 2021 I instantly booked a ticket. Now they have cancelled because they are out of money and have gone on a hiatus it is so disappointing and I really hope they recover from this.
Band change sound for the best (my opinion): *U.K.* *Album: U.K.* (Wetton, Jobson, Holdsworth, Bruford) *Album: Danger Money* (Wetton, Jobson, Bozzio) Drops the guitar & features the violin. Three live albums.
I'm fully on board with the improved versions of C.O.C. and Enslaved. I don't think Metallica changed/got worse on Load/Reload, that actual change happened on the Black Album, but yeah, that was a huge drop in quality. The Black Album and the Load(s) are basically the same style of music, they just changed their hairdos. Bitching about Cold Lake is metal's biggest cliché. It's not wrong, just obvious. Queensrÿche just stuck around too long. Geoff Tate took too much control of that band after Chris DeGarmo retired, I guess you can say that the aim and focus of the band did change when Tate tried turning them into a cabaret act. The rest I really don't have an opinion on.
Rob Zombie's is primary example. Dropped out of art school, starts White Zombie and put out well written stuff that lacked the production, incorporated a lot of the old school horror themes into the lyrics. Cycling guitarists and drummers for their first 4/5 releases, but in 1989 they get signed to a major label and Jay Yuenger joins the band. A distinct difference in the sound of the band is now there, it's less sloppy and has a scene of structure. 90s roll around, they release La Sexorcisto, Rob's best album, very experimental, and the singles gained them some well deserved notoriety. That was in 1992, 1995 they put out Astro Creep, they change to their tuning. Basically Sexorcisto was an album you could dance to, while Astro Creep was a more straight forward alternative metal album. The band gets promoted on MTV and have respectable arena tours. Then out of the blue, Rob leaves the band to start his solo career. The band members said they felt like it was a slap in the face. And that they all hated each other, but Rob puts out Hellbilly Deluxe, (1998) which is good. It's his most popular, and then he put the Sinister Urge which I believe is his best solo work (2001) but there's an obvious change in approach. He wants to produce a hit single, and he's been doing that since 1998. Some that are really good, but don't have the replay value the later White Zombie material possesses. He just recently put a live album of his solo band performing Astro Creep in it's entirety. So it's not like Rob's oblivious to it.
Fleetwood Mac has had an interesting history, maybe not good to bad or bad to good, just different flavors of good ZZ Top went from good to bad to good. Kansas' three albums with no violin( in this Kansas fan's eyes) weren't as good. Two that got worse : Genesis and Chicago
Aerosmith....when they left the 70's and that rock and roll snarl...to enter the 80's and beyond to that over produced, sheeny, lollipop guild def leppard trap...have just disappointed ever since done with mirrors...all those 70's albums are killer🤘🤘
Some examples: Evolution for better or the same as far as quailty goes > Opeth, Katatonia, Anathema Evolution for worse > Amorphis, In flames, Metallica
Here's one where they went down for the commercial sound, made their money, then came back with the classic sound and were great again - ZZ Top. How many great 70s rock bands were ruined by trusting synths and worst of all, drum machines?
ZZ Top were going to be one of my picks, but though some of us hated the new direction in the mid '80s, those albums sold a shit tone of copies and made then enormous. Kind of the same thing with Yes and Genesis...die hards hated the new sound, but the general public welcomed it with open arms and they became bigger than ever. That's why I stayed away from all 3 for this episode. Instead we tried to focus on the sound change failing miserably.
@@seaoftranquilityprog I'm from Houston, and when I was studying audio recording in the late 80's, our synth instructor, Lizzy, worked with Top in the studio, programming the Fairlight that Billy loved to write on. One day in class the topic got around to how Top's sound had changed so much, maybe not for the better. Lizzy told us how she had recently been at Billy's house playing pool during a recording break and she asked him about the change in style. She said he sighed and smiled, pointing up behind her head at the framed Platinum album for Eliminator, and said, "That's why, right there."
Love the show & the guys....how bout bands people have heard of though? Most of these bands are obscure, which is difficult to be committed in watching the whole vid. Just my 2 cents.
Seems like people think the only good metal bands come from the usa or whats played on the radio. How do you not know Enslaved, Katatonia or Blind Gurdian?
Everybody saying metallica, they didn't get worse, they just got different, load and reload are great and are what got me into Metallica, bleeding me is a masterpiece, how can people say wasting my hate isn't heavy and ain't my bitch is the track that got me into Metallica, cure is one of the most underrated Metallica songs and I love bad seed, attitude, prince charming, and better than you are awesome tunes from reload as is fuel, people saying those albums suck is just plain childish, St anger isn't so great, Death Magnetic has some good songs on it and Hardwired is a great album. And lulu is better just forgotten.
I 100% completely agree with you on Metallica! Load/Reload was Metallica trying to be COC (specifically Deliverance era), but FAILING big time. Bob Rock told James to sing (1st big mistake), screwing over Jason Newsted (2nd big mistake...he was the heart of the band and the one keeping them metal) and James going sober in 2001 (not a mistake for him personally, but as a metal frontman, he's been completely neutered since then and is a shell of his former self. Let's not even talk about how much Lars and Kirk have lost whatever skills they had in the 80's and 90's.
I guess loving all BG albums whether they're early speed metal or modern power metal counts as an unpopular opinion. I do actually think that they have changed for the better. Each album is unique and it has something...no...A LOT to offer. Now this might be ever more unpopular of an opinion, but I'll say it: Nightfall in Middle-Earth is rated way too high, both by fans and the band members alike. I adore this album, but I won't call it the band's best album.
![Chlöe - Shake (Feat. Jeremih) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aDs_1ufpfv8/mqdefault.jpg)
Def Leppard went from a Hard Rock band with great riffs to a Pop rock band.
Their first three albums are MASTERPIECES! The change was not for the better in my opinion.
In fairness they were ultimately limited by Rick Allen’s accident...I have the utmost respect for them for sticking fat and is the sole reason I love Hysteria as much as the first 3 albums, the fact that they released anything at that point was legendary
Bands that changed their sound for the better:
Thin Lizzy: I know a lot of people cherish the Eric Bell era, but for me, Thin Lizzy didn't become the badass band that I love until they got the classic lineup of both Robo and Scott Gorham and started playing harder, heavier more rocking material.
Saxon: Don't get me wrong, I love Saxon's earlier stuff to death, but their shift from traditional metal to power metal on Killing Ground was a very natural and welcome change of pace which I think has only made an already great band even better.
Bathory: I'm not an extreme metal fan at all, but I do enjoy a few black metal bands here and there, and Bathory is one of them. That said, while I do enjoy the first three black metal albums, it's probably no surprise I have a preference for the viking metal and even thrash metal style material that was being put out from Blood Fire Death onwards.
Where they changed their sound for the worst:
Metallica: Not much to say that hasn't already been said by many before. Started out practically spearheading 80s thrash metal before selling out to the mainstream and becoming what they are now.
I love that twin-guitar era of Lizzy, but "Vagabonds" is still my favorite album
Agreed on all counts except Bathory
My dad came up with this. Bands you've seen live that you wouldn't see live again. (Even if it was free)
For the Better: (The) SWEET--From bubble-gum pop like 'Funny Funny' into glam masterpieces like 'Ballroom Blitz' - - 'Fox On The Run' into heavy metal epics like 'Set Me Free' - - 'Sweet F.A.' - - 'Windy City' into progrock with 'Love Is Like Oxygen'
From 'Funny Funny How Sweet Co-Co Can Be' via SWEET Fanny Adams--Desolation Boulevard - - Strung Up - - Give Us A Wink - - Off The Record into Level Headed... And, let's not forget the brilliant 45 B-side's!! STAY SWEET!! 🤩
Your comment makes me smile - thanks!😁
great shout
Cute dog, Steve:)...cant believe people are complaining about your guests sharing their beautiful animals with us, Pete..its always a joy for me:)
Can't think of a band that fell from grace further than In Flames.
Opeth as well, at least I think.
@@petervanbuskirk500 Hard disagree there, I think Pale Communion is their second best album after Ghost Reveries, I find the newer albums to be more slowburns/growers, especially Pale Communion which just blows my socks off. I just really like all their albums, Morningrise, My Arms, Blackwater Park, Watershed, In Cauda Venenum, i'll take it all. The only one i'm not so huge on is Sorceress (which is petes favorite).
Disturbed
@@dougmcauliffe2253 man I try and I try with their new stuff, just can't get into it. Its weird because I love Damnation.
Metallica?
Clapton on his very first solo album - completely ditched the guitar hero thing of Derek, Blind Faith, Cream etc and wanted to be known as a songwriter like JJ Cale or Leon Russell, laid-back roots rock. A definite downgrade and he's never really recovered.
Totally agreed! Clapton is only as good as his collaborators. When he's in a real band like Cream, Blind Faith, or Derek & the Dominoes he can really shine, but as a solo artist he really has no chance. Can't say I truly like anything he's done solo.
I have to admit that i agree with that because his music has never recovered after his heroin years from
1970 till 1974. Before that his guitarplaying in cream and derek etc. were second to none really raw and unpolished but from 461 ocean boulevard till today he became a softrocker in the vein of rod stewart and wings he actually turned into just another popsinger which was sad i think but if he's a happy man doing that then he's a happy man
I think The Beatles are a big example of changing sound and getting better. i wasn’t a huge fan of their first few albums but then we get Revolver and Sgt Pepper and MMT and so on. i think those albums are way better than their earlier stuff.
Yeah, it's not just that The Beatles were changing their sound, they were changing music as well ;)
justin kipper very true!
Absolutely. Great choice.
MM K thank you!!
Obvious choice, agree. The first albums are sweet pop albums but by Rubber Soul you can tell they want to do something different and from Revolver and onwards, the albums are just masterpiece after masterpiece where they change how music and albums are recorded.
When I think of two completely different sounds, I think of Aerosmith. 70s Aerosmith is awesome. The other stuff not so much.
Agreed!
Yeah, the first band that came to my mind as an example of one who got worse was Aerosmith.
Well i love 90s Aerosmith a lot more than 70s😅
REO Speedwagon with The 80’s. Aerosmith could not agree more.
Worse: Scorpions. Still love the 80s stuff but they dumbed everything down from their 70s work.
Yep, such a shame. Uli was perfect for the band, brought a completely new dimension. Life’s like a river, Longing for Fire, Hell Cat, Sails of Charon, Crying Days.... insane stuff. I do enjoy Blackout as well, but that’s pretty much it for me.
I love the 80's stuff, but they peaked with Love at First Sting which is still a great album. Of course I grew up with this stuff, my brother had World Wide Live which I listened to so many times. It was only in the age of mp3's did I discover their early stuff which I dig as well. Savage Amusement and on was disappointing to me, though to be honest I haven't heard anything past Winds of Change.
I lost interest after the blackout album. They were really good back in the day.
Absolutely agree
For worse : CHICAGO from the early days of CTA(1969) to what they became in the mid 80's and on, probably the biggest decline of any band.
Good one. Chicago in the 80's were terrible.
"If You Leave Me Now" won Song of the Year. And then they became a ballad band and were never the same.
@@dereks7745 David Foster made them Sappy Pussy Love Song band!
@ agree...Terry Kath was the heart of the band...David Foster turned them into a back up band for Peter Cetera
@@claytonchaney9171 you have to see the David Foster Bio he did on Netflix? A great studio musician, producer, writer but a MAJOR ASS he comes across. He admits to being a bad son and cheating husband!
Here's one no-one has mentioned. Manfred Mann going from breezy chart pop to a truly great proggy fusion band.
'Blinded by the Light"....written by Bruce Springsteen....Bruce has gone on record as hating this version....his loss...greatest cover
Pete if you ever get into the selling t-shirts business make one that reads in print on the front 'This T Shirt doesn't follow the Chris Allo Rule.'
The 1st band that comes to mind is Def Leppard, the 1st two albums were good hard rock almost metal albums, then Phil collen joins who is a good guitarist but he turned them into a pop band.
Bands That Changed for Better
1. Journey (Starting in 1978)
2. Bethlehem (Starting in 2016)
Bands That Changed for Worst
1. Bethlehem (Starting in 2001 thru 2014)
2. Metallica (Starting in 1991)
3. Queensryche (Starting in 1990)
4. Bon Jovi (Starting in 1992)
5. Fates Warning (Starting in 1994)
6. Anvil (Starting in 1987)
7. Entombed (Starting in 1991)
8. TNT (Starting in 1987)
9. Nightwish (Starting in 2007)
10. Dokken (Starting in 1995)
Grand Funk went from a raw overdriven sound to a more mainstream polished sound.
Is that good or bad?
For the better: .38 Special, from country rock to stadium rock
For the worse: Whitesnake, post-Jon Lord era
Can I suggest that it would be a good idea if the guys could either sit nearer to their microphones or get better ones. I can’t hear some of the things they say and I have great hearing. The sound is muffled and/or distant. Love these rants and I don’t want to miss a thing, 😂
Killing Joke have remained awesome since Day 1. They can create a Depeche Mode song or a Motorhead song at will.
Absolutely! Love them!!
Yes!
I think Pylon might be my favourite of all of theirs.
Matthew..... that may be their 10th best album I am happy to say.
Absolutely!
Metallica took a lot of flack for "betraying" metal here on the show but to me what Def Leppard became in the 90s was flat out sickening considering how great they were in the early days.
Def Leppard not only tried to jump on the alternative bandwagon, they were also talking crap about classic rock bands during their Slang era. Totally agree w you.
Absolutely!!!!!! Def Leppard is THE worst betrayal ever!
The Hysteria album was a good album but it was the beginning of the end for that band with me. I couldn’t stand half the songs on it but liked some of the other ones immensely. Pyromania was the last great thing that band did.....from beginning to end it’s a classic!
Rainbow got to commercial for me after the Down To Earth album.
For the better: Pantera
For the worse: Def Leppard
Cant stand Pantera.
couldn't agree more
Saved it from what?
Yeah, Def Leppard....UGH! I first Hysteria and wuh?
YES !!! I forgot about early Pantera..
A band that changed for the better to me is Dying Fetus. Their songwriting is continuing to improve and their last two albums are masterpieces! Love the early stuff too, but these last two albums are amazing.
I immediately thought of Rush. Always interesting but I prefer the 76-81 period.
Rush was more like a "U" shape
Yep that's one band that I would have to say that got less desirable after the first few records Scorpions is another band that sounded better their first few stents ....also Motley Crue's first three albums were their best as well ...
And I guess I have to admit also that Def Leppard's right in that category as well.... So those are just a few off the top of my head, however Rush was and always will be amazing,.. yet their first few albums were their best. I really liked everything from R.u.s.h's debut album entitled Rush
All the way up to the best 2112 and of course 81"s Moving Pictures Lp and last but not least Grace Under Pressure had a couple of decent songs everything was downhill from then on.
Agreed Rush was all down hill post 84 Grace Under Pressure. Then, the really heavy synth pop era of the band began. Yuck !
As a pro keyboard player , the 80's Rush was a huge influence ...I know old geezer guitar players are now reconsidering that period...alternate tunings etc...recognize....
@@claytonchaney9171 Check out RUSH.... Subdivisions ...amazing song and some of the keyboard arrangements are just mesmerizing right from the start!
Deep Purple with MK. II for the better
THis is the one I immediately thought of, and I enjoy MI but MII is levels above. I know quite a few people who would also list Purple on the other side with the MIII increasingly going bluesy and then MIV w/Bolin doesn't quite hold up to MII. One of the best reunions after that mess.
Pete, I saw Queensryche on their American Soldier tour and it was a sold out house. I do agree with you though that everything after Promised Land was MUCH WORSE, but they did still have some great songs sprinkled throughout, even with Geoff's ever deteriorating vocals. Imo, their best years were from 1982 (when they recorded their EP) to 1995 (the end of the Promised Land tour).
My only regret about this show is that I had to wait until Tuesday morning to watch. Glad to see the return of Steve Keeler and his singing to the SoT broadcast. Always some laughs and some great discussion. My better to worse list would have to include Chicago [who started with three great double albums - unbelievable] to the saccharine schlock later in their career and Aerosmith. As a child of the 60s, my 'getting better' list would have to be the Beatles throughout their time as a band and the Beach Boys up to a point and then they began to slide into more mediocre albums and songs. Great stuff, guys! Looking for more of this must-see show next week.
My first thought when I was first listening to "Load" by Metallica..."What the f**k! Did these guys forget how to play their instruments?"
Cocaine and egos
I remember,it angered me.It sucked so bad
C'mon, the playing is good and half of the tracks on both Load and Reload are still amazing. A lot of fillers though, i'll admit
@@253timeandtimeagain2 I like several of the songs and it would be a pretty good album from another band but this was Metallica.
When Bob Rock produced "The Black Album"...everybody said,"That's the Tomato"....never paid much attention since....
while the Frost SUCKED with "Cold Lake", 20 years later they released their absolute masterpiece in "Monotheism". Not many records - by any band - can beat "to Mega Therion", yet the Frost topped themselves here!
not trying to disagree with you but in a way CF could be seen as HellHammer changing their sound for the worse
Yep, you are 100% right. We didn't have a lot of time for the video, so I didn't have time to go into that. - Chris
Might have to check out Monotheism, haven't paid attention to them since the 80's. Although Into the Pandemonium was my introduction to them on a poorly copied cassette tape and probably my favorite.
i know im in the minority here, but i hate Monotheist, i respect the band for doing it and as a "work of art" i have some appreciation for it, but to my ears the music its just tedious goth/doom. But hey, at least has more artistic integrity than that fucking "Prototype" demo (or "cold lake" for that matter).
@@timtaylor2202 as much as i love Hellhammer, "Morbid Tales" crushes everything Hellhammer did.
Megadeth had a couple of albums (Risk and Super Collider) that almost cost them but then they bounce back with decent albums afterwards.
For the better- OPETH....the early music/ instrumentation is great but I have a hard time with growl vocals. Mikael’s natural voice is beautiful.
For the worse- The Sword.... my god the first 3 albums are an AMAZING riff festival. Maybe two decent songs on High Country. Used Future is nearly a total loss. WT hell. We don’t need a ZZ Top “ refresh”. Whatever they are trying to accomplish ZZ Top does it better 🤷♂️.
Also, I agree Pete, the Queensryche “shitty era” was one of the most epic downfalls in rock history.
Bingo with Opeth. Their early stuff isn't really my style but their later stuff is fantastic.
@@b2tall239 I prefer the earlier stuff even though I don't like the growl stuff normally. They were the one band that did it well- Also their later music lost its edge and became TOO orchestral for my tastes and complex for it's own good. Who wants to be impressed shallowly?? I want to be MOVED deeply-like the Doors stuff still does after 50 years. Still good but not as good or visceral - A lot of music is ruined by an obsession on technique vs the power of breakthrough emotional inspiration. Opeth are a very very good band. My faves being >Blackwater Park, Damnation, Ghost Reveries. For me downhill after that though.
I think UFO definitely changed their sound for the better in the 70’s. As great as those two space rock albums are, I think they finally found their way when Schenker joined the band, and eventually Paul Raymond. In the early 80’s, UFO’s sound became arguably too commercial, but I enjoy those albums. UFO’s has been always at least somewhat accessible. Other bands who changed their sound for the better:
Steamhammer- a cool blues rock band to a cool prog band.
Pink Floyd- trippy psychedelic rock music to very focused, concept driven music.
As far as bands who changed their sound for the worst, I’ll go ahead and throw Buffalo out there. Although I like Mother’s Choice and Average Rock N’ Roller for what they are, they are definitely more commercial than their first three, and not quite as good.
Very enjoyable show as always though!
For worse:
Aerosmith
Metallica
Even though I like some of the metallica albums after they "changed sound" I can't argue with that they sounded the best in the 80's
@@98Dreadboy most things sound best from the 80s early 90s when it comes to Metal...
Yes Metallica changed a little but load and reload are awesome and nine lives was a pretty good Aerosmith album from 1997 pretty heavy in places but everything since has been awful
@@alexjohnston8889 No!
Agreed about Aerosmith. Every later song sounds the same....”Cryin’ Crazy, Crazy Cryin’....same tempo and structure and no druggy edge anymore....Dream On
Blind Guardian are one of the most consistent bands ever. They would be my choice for a band that just keeps getting better with time. Personally I'm not the biggest fan of the first two albums, but every album since is a masterpiece in my opinion. And I'm not sure I agree with the opinion they are losing people with the new stuff. Maybe losing some, but certainly gaining many new fans.
The first seven Moody Blues albums are classics. They quickly followed Genesis into mostly pop radio schlock. Gotta sell records I guess.
It's funny b/c Queensryche qualifies for both categories. They changed their sound for the worse, then changed it again for the better.
As for my pics:
Better: Red Hot Chili Peppers - I know there are people who love their earlier, Funk Rock stuff, but I tend to prefer their more melodic stuff. It was apparent on Blood Sugar Sex Magic and they leaned more into it on later albums like Californication and By The Way. They still retained some of those funky elements, but the songwriting became more melodic, more mature, and in some cases more "chill." Songs like Otherside, Californication, & The Zephyr Song is the stuff I tend to gravitate towards.
Worse: Coldplay - Yes, I like Coldplay, sue me! I really likes their first 4 albums. I thought their music was interesting and melodic and the antithesis to the Pop-Punk stuff that was dominating most of the Rock scene at the time. However, with Mylo Xyloto and onward they started leaning hard into mainstream Pop music. Their music became more synthesized. There was lots of trendy production & pop star collabs like Beyonce and Rhianna. They also started working with EDM and dance music producers like Aviiccii. I just can't stand it. They went from an interesting alt Rock band to just another dance/pop band like Maroon 5 and the like.
The Cult were a cool gothy band with with “Love”. For many 80’s kids who liked moodier UK bands, they fit the bill. Then 2 years later, Rick Rubin tries turning them into AC/DC with the big riffs. They even begin to look like an American biker bar band. Still, the tunes on “Electric” are good and overall it’s forgivable. Nonetheless, The Cult spend the next several years seemingly chasing trends and losing what made them cool (to me at least) on “Love”.
thing is as a cover band...it all comes off this album
Well said!
Totally agree their psychedelic goth sound on Love was epic and galvanizing. Then they started chasing trends(metal???) and never found a true sound or identity. Too bad
For better: JEFF BECK when became just instrumental; BEATLES from "Rubber soul" on; DEEP PURPLE with the arriving of Gillan and Glover.
For worse: RENAISSANCE from "Time line" on; NAZARETH from "Sound elixir" on; RUSH from "Power windows" on; MARILLION without Fish.
Marillion still cool.
I agree with Anathema as change for the better. The first three times I heard “Untouchable Part 1 and 2” (played it three times back to back) I wept. Beautiful!
Good to worse? Genesis! Legendary prog to pop crap.
But that pop crap sold millions and made them superstars, so what do we know!
Rainbow after Dio left for the worse obviously, too popy for me.
True.
@@Codzilla71 I liked Graham Bonnet better in the Michael Schenker Group and Alcatraz .
Yessss! Love that Katatonia was mentioned. Would love to see top 10 songs or ranking the albums of their catalogue.
I have no problem mentioning Celtic Frost as a band that changed for the worst with the releases "Cold Lake" and "Vanity / Nemesis." However, I'm not sure how you guys didn't spend more time talking about their final album "Monotheist." Not only is it as good as "Morbid Tales" and "To Mega Therion", but it is one of the greatest comeback albums in metal history. Oh well, just my .02 cents. Thanks for an interesting episode. There were some great choices by everyone.
For the better: Enslaved (love everything, just prefer "Below the Lights" to present more)
For the worst: Genesis
Hey John, Chris here. You are totally right, Frost made a GREAT comeback with "Monotheist", we just didn't have the time to go into that.
@@cheezesteak Hey Chris, fair enough. I know you guys are pressed for time. Maybe "greatest comeback albums" could be a future episode if it hasn't been done already.
Genesis went from a 70's prog band to an 80's adult contemporary band so they changed for the worse. Also, Synchronicity by The Police isn't a bad album by any means, but it doesn't hold a candle to the youthful freshness of Outlandos d'Amour or Reggatta de Blanc. Then there is Pink Floyd...Wish You Were Here sounds nothing like The Dark Side of the Moon. Animals sounds nothing like Wish You Were Here. The Wall sounds nothing like Animals. A change for the better? It's just a matter of opinion. To me I dig all of those albums. I even like certain parts of The Final Cut but that's where my love of Floyd ends.
I think division bell was the best Floyd album since the wall, I dig that album a lot it sounds like god himself
I'm with you on Genesis and the Police but if you're going to address Pink Floyd, you really ought to acknowledge the early stuff too.
David G. said about "The Final Cut"...."If they were not good enough to be on the last album...then why are they here"?.....of course the Floyds "throw aways"are better than anything I could come up with....
For Better:
- Iron Maiden after 2000 - their prog direction gained them hordes of new fans & modernised their 90s sound.
- Saxon after 1997- Their modern Power Metal direction has been great
- Helloween after 1994 - saved them from being another early 90s casualty.
Opeth - Love their 70s inspired prog direction
-Tiamat after Wildhoney - created their own gothic/Doom style
-Therion after Theli - created their unique Symphonic Metal sound
- Iced Earth after 1995 - Addition of Matt Barlow revolutionised their sound
On Maiden....fuck no....classic maiden.
Fleetwood Mac for bettering, even though some of their early stuff is great. Aerosmith changed for the way worse.
They went through so many different periods. I'm probably like you, I started out with the Stevie Nicks era and that's Fleetwood Mac to me (weirdly enough I was turned onto them by my college roommate who had a garage metal band--go figure), but I've heard a lot of people who prefer their bluesier early music and hate their "slick" late seventies sound.
Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac is nothing like the line up that gave them the most success, the original Fleetwood Mac is still my favorite period of the band, I can’t listen to the Nicks and Buckingham period, just does nothing for me anymore. I even go back and listen to some of the Bob Welch period like “Bare Trees” before I would listen to their commercial era stuff, I think it’s bland and way overplayed.
Evan Steidtman lol
Aerosmith succumbed to Desmond Child
Clayton Chaney hahaha, they did as did many artists, you know a song written by Child because it’s always one of the worst songs you’ve ever heard, I always say, we know who to blame for shitty music in the 80’s, it’s Desmond Child.
Very good show!! What happened to Queensryche almost happened to Helloween. Very curious phenomenon happened to many bands. Think of what would have happened if both Dickinson and Halford had stayed in Maiden and Priest. Both wanted to do different things, just like Tate and Kiske, but that desire ruined what they had going in their original bands. So they all went out to test the waters but to this day all of them, except Tate, have come back into the fold.
That's a really good point.
As a Genesis fan from the start, I was very dismayed when they went down the commercial road. I can’t bear anything after Wind And Wuthering. From sublime early albums to the absolute crap of Duke onwards. It was a crime what they did. They should have changed the name of the band to “The Sellouts”. I thought Pete would have picked Genesis for the Good to Bad. 😁
Couldn’t agree with you more. 👍🏻
I think Duke is a great album, same with And Then There Were Three. I recognize Abacab, S/T and Invisible Touch don't even remotely hold a light to their best albums of the 70s, but I think they're alright pop albums.
I said the same. The latest strong album was W & G
Worse: Chicago, U2
Better: Meat Puppets, Husker Du, Thin Lizzy
As for Metallica, I think the biggest issue was the length of the Load and the Reload albums. Cut out the 25 minutes of filler on each and those albums have actually aged well.
OK which songs would you cut.
@@alexjohnston8889
Load: Cure, Thorn Within, Mama Said, Poor Twisted Me, Ronnie
Reload: Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, Bad Seed, Carpe Diem Baby
Ted Nugent went from being truly great to pretty good to pretty bad to flat-out atrocious.
For staying great the whole time, the German band Kraan. Been around since about 1972, changed with the times. Always sounded great to me through all the changes. Their new album "Sandglass" comes out in a few days.
Downhill - Van Halen when Eddie thought keyboards were more interesting than his guitar.
Even at the peak of that (1984 - OU812) there were only 3 keyboard songs on the whole album
Aerosmith is unlistenable now.
Good pick
The Worst Style Change Ever = CHICAGO!!!!!!!!
I like to live in a fantasy world where Load, Reload, and St Anger don’t exist so that I can feel better. At least I wasn’t alive to experience that heartbreak first hand.
How do you guys feel about Heart? I'm torn. Their 70's stuff was good obviously and they made a big change in the 80's but I actually kinda like their 80's stuff too, lol.
From 70s Heart (Hard Rock) to 80s Heart(aor) to modern day Heart (classic rock) imho all their eras kick ass in their own right 👍
For the better: The Strawbs. Started out as bluegrass and became one of the best prog bands of the 1970's.
For the worst: Genesis.
Agreed! Can't really get into any Genesis post-Duke. There are a couple tracks here and there on some of those albums, but overall unlistenable for me.
@@keviniles8748 I was never keen on much post-Hackett, but have since reassessed Duke as a pretty good prog-pop album, despite some real stinkers on it (e.g. Misunderstanding). Home by the Sea tracks sort of returned to this a bit, and Mama was a good pop song, but most of the post Duke stuff was terrible.
The Strawbs did both, it's surprising how many bands tried to "do a Genesis" and the Strawbs were pretty bad post Ghosts despite a few highlights.
@@stevewhiteside4525 We are in complete agreement there!
I love your videos Pete, your cool as hell man and these rant videos are the best 🤘🇺🇸
You have a great show Pete, but it would be so much more mature & enjoyable if you would have your guests stop dropping all the f-bombs. What are they; 13 years old? If they grew up your show would be MUCH better. Thanks for listening. You're terrific & speak like a man.
Janice Kates come on man, it’s his show and let him do what he wants, if he wants to cuss he can cuss, I love the show either way, having the swearing makes it more laid back and at home 🤘🤘🇺🇸keep on rocking Pete you you do you
@@katesjanice I never took offence to any blue language....I'm sure RUclips would step in if need be...I respect and even agree with your desire to be more cordial...I got children here too....but hey ...Its Rock-n-Roll we be dealin with
For better: Journey when they brought in Steve Perry
For worse: U2 after 2000's "All That You Can't Leave Behind". Not to say there were some good songs here and there after this point, but they went from being daring and willing to experiment with their sound, to making bland wannabe-Coldplay rock and playing it very safe with each album.
And Pete was 100% on the money with Queensryche.
Hafersten Productions I’d go so far as to say for U2 it was the Joshua Tree and Rattle Hum (although some may strongly disagree). I think the JT is a great album but with that tour, they became a mainstream band and far less interesting. The first three albums had a post punk energy and the Unforgettable Fire was sonically very interesting/textural and they still had driving tunes like “Wire”. That said, I like JT but something of U2 was lost around that time. AB was a good album that made me interested again but then they lost it with subsequent albums.
Hafersten Productions you are giving too much leeway to U2, they blew their wad after “Pop”, just kept making the same album over and over, they got rich and perform bombastically overblown stadium shows charging exorbitant prices for tickets, they are by far the most boring successful band in music, a close second is Foo Fighters.
I agree with regards U2, although I haven’t liked them since ‘Zooropa’. The biggest problem I have with them is their obsession with staying relevant, to compete with the young acts of the era. In a way it’s laudable, but it just ends up embarrassing. I wish they’d accept that they are elder statesmen, get the delay pedals out of the pawnshop and make some epic rock music again like they used to. Every band has to change - change is good - but you get this feeling with U2 that a lot of it is just about money now, shoring up their business empire for another financial year.
Patrick Crowther and David Evans should remove that permanently attached cap from his bald head and let it go. They are like teenagers trying to hold on to their youth and ol’ Paul Hewson should shut up and just sing.
For me, 1991's Achtung Baby is the last U2 album worth listening to in its entirety. Every album since then has about 4 good songs on it and the rest of the songs are forgettable.
Unpopular opinion here but...
For the better - Anthrax when John Bush replaced Joey Belladonna.
For the worse - Anthrax when Joey Belladonna returned after John Bush.
LOL! I'm with you on that one.
I don’t particularly like the albums they released with Bush aside from an odd song here or there but man, he’s such a better vocalist than Joey. Eight days a week and twice on Sunday. No argument on that! 🤣
Move for the worse - Trower when he thought he could do the vocals on his own records. I mean not only is he a bad singer but he's following Jimmy Dewar, Jack Bruce and Davey Pattison on vocal duties in the band. Suicide.
The first one that jumps out for me is Opeth. I was never a big fan of Death Metal so I never listened to much of them and eventually forgot about them. It was here on Pete's channel that I learned that they had changed their sound to more of a "prog metal" sound so I gave them a chance. Absolutely fantastic. Love their 4 most recent albums. Rainbow was a band that went through numerous sound changes, seemingly with each new lead singer. I love all their incarnations and sounds.
Shout out to Nick for the LOTR reference!
All of Opeths work is stellar.
Baying of the Hounds is classic.
For the better -- Uriah Heep. The were a bit Spinal Tap until Thain joined and they went to another level. More bands have a vital period and then a decline. Metallica, YES, Grand Funk, all did great stuff and then ran out of ideas. Some continue to improve and then go dry, such as RUSH and Queen. And Iron Maiden went from being good to absolutely awesome, and then after 7th Son they were completely dreadful.
Obvious one here but Deep Purple going from the Fudge inspired first 3 albums to the MK2 era that made them megastars. Became much heavier, dropped the silly covers, Gillan and Glover changed the songwriting style entirely. Then - and this may not be a popular one but I LOVE it - MKII changing to the funky, groovy MKIII and IV with Coverdale, Hughes and Bolin showed they could change for the better AGAIN.
I've been watching and enjoying your videos since March 2020 and you've really made my isolation days better. So many great topics and guests. Keep doing what you do because it's awesome. I have a suggestion for ranking the albums. How about the ultimate prog rock opera project called Ayreon? Cheers from Serbia! 🤘🏻🍻
Great rant as always! Changes, conformity! When their new songs do not sound like their old songs fans rage. When their new songs sound the same as their old song fans rage. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Keep it up!
For the worse (Strangely this means making much more money lol....) Chicago.....Def Leopard....Reo Speedwagon...Styx...Aerosmith (caveat... the sappy romance ballads seemed to gain more and more of the the spotlight ,and any rock they tried got weak and placed in the shadows.
For the worse- ZZ Top in the eighties
For the better- ZZ Top Rhythmeen a welcome return to the greatness of the 70’s.
Love these shows hopefully they will remain a fixture on Monday nights in the long cold winter ahead.
The group I am going to mention did not go into a radical change, but gradually moved to where they are now. Opeth has amazing death growls and really crunchy guitar metal. Ghost Reveries has a good mix of both growls and clean, and I LOVE both equally. I know many "fans" of Opeth and Mikael felt "betrayed" by Heritage, but I LOVE the record. If people were surprised by Heritage, they did not pay attention to the musical direction of previous albums. Growls to Growls/Clean to Clean. I like all the stages of this group. Growth is not bad, and Mikael and Opeth prove this quite ably.
Opeth, like Voivod, progressed into amazing areas.
My pick from great to worse, would have to be Sepultura. I was so disappointed when Roots came out.
But they never stayed with the Roots sound... sure they’ll always incorporate Brazilian influence into their music, but they stopped the Brazilian groove/Nu metal at one point.
Their latest album Quattro might make you change your mind.
Worse:Metallica,Pantera,Marillion,Aerosmith,Scorpions,In Flames,Queensryche...
Great episode! Agreed with all of the bands mention. Bands who got better part, first 2 bands I thought of were Katatonia and Enslaved, couldn’t believe they were the first 2 talked about. I band that hasn’t been as good is Sepultura. A few albums post Max have been pretty good, but when Igor left I felt they should’ve changed their name. Max and Igor formed the band, not knocking Derick Green or the drummers they’ve, it’s just weird to see Derick sing songs that Max wrote that were personal to him. I’m not saying the band is terrible, but it’s just when I see the name Sepultura and here Max’s vocals and those early albums were so good and yes I even like the Roots album.
Definitely what the other guy said about Def Leppard. They were awesome on their first 3 albums. After Pyromania when the accident happened most people thought they were finished, then the news of a new cd was out. Well, the cd came out and what a hunk of complete garbage. The sad part is, people loved it.
For me, the good to bad isn’t the band itself, but the lineup. The Ozzy era Sabbath. They follow up the greatness of Sabotage with two albums that sounded like a try at radio friendly songs. ‘You won’t change me’, ‘It’s alright’, ‘All moving parts’, ‘A hard road’. Most of the songs on Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die were boring and plodding.
Rush have changed so much over the years. Heavy metal, hard rock with progressive elements, then full on progressive rock, followed by more commericial, arena rock, THEN pop rock with synthesizers during the 1980s. Then Rush just said fuck it and went back to being a hard rock band for the rest of their career
Fleetwood mac were far better when Peter green, Jeremy Spencer and Danny kirrwan were in the band. They were far better as a British blues rock band.
Yes! The most obvious choice. Peter Green & company were one of the best bands period. That tripe they do with Stevie Nick's is almont unlistenable.
@@russdavies9686
I can listen to Rumours but anything later is absolutely rubbish. The Welch/ Weston/ Christine McViie middle period band was way better than the Buckingham/Nicks era but will never top the original line-up.
For the worse: Alice Cooper going solo and pantomime, the performance of lace and whiskey on the Johnny Carson show with dancing chickens is just embarrassing.
I kind of like his cabaret period there, it's totally Muppet Show most big rock acts anyhow have their poppy eras.
Alice Cooper should have called it quits 20 years ago.
The Stones changed their sound for the better with Beggar’s Banquet. They were mainly a rock and blues band, but they were (it seems) trying to sound like the Beatles. When they accepted that they were a rock/blues band, they went from good to great.
Love Voivod's "Astronomy Domine." Great video too. BTW, "Domine" is pronounced "dom-in-ay."
Also, I always felt that Metallica kept Bob Rock around WAY too long. Death Magnetic should’ve happened about 20 years prior.
Thanks for another great show guys.
I want to thank Pete Pardo for turning me on to Anathema. They have been so important in getting me through this year. When I heard they were playing near me in January 2021 I instantly booked a ticket. Now they have cancelled because they are out of money and have gone on a hiatus it is so disappointing and I really hope they recover from this.
Band change sound for the best (my opinion):
*U.K.*
*Album: U.K.* (Wetton, Jobson, Holdsworth, Bruford)
*Album: Danger Money* (Wetton, Jobson, Bozzio) Drops the guitar & features the violin.
Three live albums.
For the better: Avenged Sevenfold
For the worse: Chicago
Agree!
Yes! Loved when A7X put out City of Evil. they work much better as an alt metal band than a core metal. i’m a huge fan of them
When David Foster took hold of Chicago and lessened that horn section, that was it for me. Too many ballads and love songs.
A7X was epic early in but sold out and started mimicking Metallica after The Rev passed away (RIP)..
@@raymondkizer1216 Couple of other Foster-ized bands that took a dip: The Tubes & AWB.
I'm fully on board with the improved versions of C.O.C. and Enslaved. I don't think Metallica changed/got worse on Load/Reload, that actual change happened on the Black Album, but yeah, that was a huge drop in quality. The Black Album and the Load(s) are basically the same style of music, they just changed their hairdos. Bitching about Cold Lake is metal's biggest cliché. It's not wrong, just obvious. Queensrÿche just stuck around too long. Geoff Tate took too much control of that band after Chris DeGarmo retired, I guess you can say that the aim and focus of the band did change when Tate tried turning them into a cabaret act. The rest I really don't have an opinion on.
Rant suggestion: Favorite FEMALE vocalists in Prog and Metal. Not only vocal but stage presence as well.
No. Broads had an important role as groupies.
Queensryche depresses me so much.
Thank you guys for your RANT- Bands Who Changed Their Sound For Better and Worse.🎤🎸🎵🥁
For worse:
Def Leppard
Yes
Genesis
For better:
Porcupine Tree
Genesis, absolutely! They went from being a damn good prog rock band to being a boring pop band after Steve Hackett left. How disappointing!
@@kai0286 I like Rutherford though.
@Douglas Fisher still better than most pop...but yea "Invisible Touch" was a bridge too far
Question of Taste : Many people Love The 80/90 Genesis Music and can t stand The old 70 stuff.
@@sudabeh545 I'd guess most people here prefer the older version tbh.
Btw, welcome back Steve Keeler, love your positive energy! 🤘Hope to see him more on the show
Might suggest Opeth. Nobody loves BWP more than me but love the progressive shift. Not necessarily better but awesome.
Agreed. One style is not better than the other. They are equally amazing.
Rob Zombie's is primary example. Dropped out of art school, starts White Zombie and put out well written stuff that lacked the production, incorporated a lot of the old school horror themes into the lyrics. Cycling guitarists and drummers for their first 4/5 releases, but in 1989 they get signed to a major label and Jay Yuenger joins the band. A distinct difference in the sound of the band is now there, it's less sloppy and has a scene of structure. 90s roll around, they release La Sexorcisto, Rob's best album, very experimental, and the singles gained them some well deserved notoriety. That was in 1992, 1995 they put out Astro Creep, they change to their tuning. Basically Sexorcisto was an album you could dance to, while Astro Creep was a more straight forward alternative metal album. The band gets promoted on MTV and have respectable arena tours. Then out of the blue, Rob leaves the band to start his solo career. The band members said they felt like it was a slap in the face. And that they all hated each other, but Rob puts out Hellbilly Deluxe, (1998) which is good. It's his most popular, and then he put the Sinister Urge which I believe is his best solo work (2001) but there's an obvious change in approach. He wants to produce a hit single, and he's been doing that since 1998. Some that are really good, but don't have the replay value the later White Zombie material possesses. He just recently put a live album of his solo band performing Astro Creep in it's entirety. So it's not like Rob's oblivious to it.
Fleetwood Mac has had an interesting history, maybe not good to bad or bad to good, just different flavors of good
ZZ Top went from good to bad to good.
Kansas' three albums with no violin( in this Kansas fan's eyes) weren't as good.
Two that got worse : Genesis and Chicago
When you talk Fleetwood Mac ..you talkin about at least three different bands...
Bon Jovi changed for the worse in the 90s when they completly changed their style.
Yes, they went from horrid to even more horrid.
There is a billboard for a local easy listening station on my drive home. It has Kelly Clarkson and Jon Bon Jovi on it. 'Nuff said.
Once Nirvana came along, they had no choice nor did Def Leppard.
Aerosmith....when they left the 70's and that rock and roll snarl...to enter the 80's and beyond to that over produced, sheeny, lollipop guild def leppard trap...have just disappointed ever since done with mirrors...all those 70's albums are killer🤘🤘
Rock & a Hard Place was the last good Aerosmith. Not long later they sold out to C rap.
Some examples:
Evolution for better or the same as far as quailty goes > Opeth, Katatonia, Anathema
Evolution for worse > Amorphis, In flames, Metallica
Here's one where they went down for the commercial sound, made their money, then came back with the classic sound and were great again - ZZ Top. How many great 70s rock bands were ruined by trusting synths and worst of all, drum machines?
ZZ Top were going to be one of my picks, but though some of us hated the new direction in the mid '80s, those albums sold a shit tone of copies and made then enormous. Kind of the same thing with Yes and Genesis...die hards hated the new sound, but the general public welcomed it with open arms and they became bigger than ever. That's why I stayed away from all 3 for this episode. Instead we tried to focus on the sound change failing miserably.
@@seaoftranquilityprog I'm from Houston, and when I was studying audio recording in the late 80's, our synth instructor, Lizzy, worked with Top in the studio, programming the Fairlight that Billy loved to write on. One day in class the topic got around to how Top's sound had changed so much, maybe not for the better. Lizzy told us how she had recently been at Billy's house playing pool during a recording break and she asked him about the change in style. She said he sighed and smiled, pointing up behind her head at the framed Platinum album for Eliminator, and said, "That's why, right there."
Love the show & the guys....how bout bands people have heard of though? Most of these bands are obscure, which is difficult to be committed in watching the whole vid. Just my 2 cents.
Danny, I’d hardly call Queensryche, Metallica, Anathema, Corrosion of Conformity, Voivod, Enslaved, Blind Guardian, and Katatonia obscure.
@@sotdude7 I know Queensryche and Metallica quite well the others are very obscure atleast to me but hey it's nice getting to know new bands
You’re right, I watched the whole vid....it was just the beginning for the most part. Do love your channel Pete 👍
Seems like people think the only good metal bands come from the usa or whats played on the radio. How do you not know Enslaved, Katatonia or Blind Gurdian?
Everybody saying metallica, they didn't get worse, they just got different, load and reload are great and are what got me into Metallica, bleeding me is a masterpiece, how can people say wasting my hate isn't heavy and ain't my bitch is the track that got me into Metallica, cure is one of the most underrated Metallica songs and I love bad seed, attitude, prince charming, and better than you are awesome tunes from reload as is fuel, people saying those albums suck is just plain childish, St anger isn't so great, Death Magnetic has some good songs on it and Hardwired is a great album. And lulu is better just forgotten.
For better: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rush, Judas Priest
For worse: Creed, Chicago, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi
I 100% completely agree with you on Metallica! Load/Reload was Metallica trying to be COC (specifically Deliverance era), but FAILING big time. Bob Rock told James to sing (1st big mistake), screwing over Jason Newsted (2nd big mistake...he was the heart of the band and the one keeping them metal) and James going sober in 2001 (not a mistake for him personally, but as a metal frontman, he's been completely neutered since then and is a shell of his former self. Let's not even talk about how much Lars and Kirk have lost whatever skills they had in the 80's and 90's.
I guess loving all BG albums whether they're early speed metal or modern power metal counts as an unpopular opinion.
I do actually think that they have changed for the better. Each album is unique and it has something...no...A LOT to offer.
Now this might be ever more unpopular of an opinion, but I'll say it: Nightfall in Middle-Earth is rated way too high, both by fans and the band members alike. I adore this album, but I won't call it the band's best album.