Inside The European Mammoths: Air France-KLM, IAG And The Lufthansa Group
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2020
- Aviation in the US and Europe is dominated these days by large consolidated groups. The current consolidation in Europe began with the merger of Air France and KLM in 2005 and Lufthansa Group and the International Airlines Group, or IAG have since formed as well.
This video will explore each of these three groups.
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Klm and airfrance also own Transavia a pretty big low cost carrier owning 80 planes
Yeah, he missed Dolomiti and CityLine for Lufthansa too.
Transavia has a partnership with Suncountry
@@afcgeo882 Yep
A tip : watch series at flixzone. I've been using it for watching all kinds of movies recently.
The Transavia logo was in the graphics. But they explicitly excluded low-cost carriers acquired or founded by AirFrance-KLM.
Lufthansa also owns Air Dolomiti, Edelweiss through Swiss and 50% of AeroLogic as well as 50% of SunExpress.
They also have LUXAir, Bulgarian Airways, Lufthansa Regional, and Helvetic
@@ryanfrisby7389 wrong. Luxair and Helvetic are on their own
As a Dutchy we often feel like AF is the anchor to KLM, AF often been a loss maker where KLM has been profitable. Many here would love to see the merger be undone and just have them work together as alliance partners.
Maybe LHG should swap Brussels for KLM. It would form an unbeatable structure in Europe.
KLM makes profit. Air France doesnt.
Personally i prefer AMS to CDG.
Took more than 1 hour getting from 2e to 2f. Having to pass through passport control and security AGAIN after arriving on AF499.
Since st maarten is self governing dutch territory then i wasnt expecting it.
I may not agree. The loss was actually caused by strikes and the A380 which is not so profitable for the airline
@@rogervanreijcke2003 Strikes are an issue with French Culture they will strike till it dooms a company. Getting Dutch people to strike at all is quite tricky, it is just not something we do for all the right or wrong reasons. Just an example of that culture clash.
@@rogervanreijcke2003 Strikes = France; A380 = Air France
I love this channel, whilst I enjoy watching the main Simple Flying channel, I much prefer this one as the videos are longer and more interesting. Great Work Lads!!!
I think that they should consider doing the three major Middle Eastern carriers or the three major Chinese airlines next.
Qatar Airways actually owns a stake In british Airways
Chinese airlines will be easy: they're all belonging to the Chinese communist party in one way or another.
Interesting stuff! Something to learn from as always 👍
The Lufthansa group actually houses more airlines than shown here. Part are Lufthansa Cityline and Air Dolomiti based in Italy under Lufthansa regional administration, Eurowings Europe based in Austria, Germanwings and Brussels Airlines based in Belgium under Eurowings administration, Edelweiss Air under Swiss administration, Lufthansa Cargo and an 50% share in Sun Express (Sunexpress Deutschland) originally based in Turkey.
Until 2009 Condor was a part of the LH Group, they later merged with Thomas Cook.
All airlines except SunExpress are represented in the groups yearly financial revenue.
City line does not count.
An now it's Discover as a new airlines.
@@henriklmao should do an update after 2 years 😂
This will come helpful for my masters assignment! Thank you!
Thank you very much for this very informative video! :-)
Awesome video !
I like the image of what looks like a 747 SP in BA colours 👍!
The SP is my favourite 747 variant
Amazing Video
That's more like it. A nice in depth look at things Mr. Average would normally overlook. Airline politics is extremely alive, and even ore so when there's a crisis to face. Like when that Icelandic volcano lost it's temper a few years ago. What I'd really love to find out about, is if any competing groups/companies would actually help one another our, or sit tight and watch each other fall into non existence. Could you do a video along those lines? It might give us, the fare paying passengers, an idea on who is a good hearted airline, and who would be happy to see us stranded in foreign lands.
Thumbs up for the BA 747-SP with winglets!
*RIP 747, 1969-2020*
_May the Queen of the Skies rest in eternal peace..._
They are only going away for passenger service, in the cargo space they are here to stay for a while.
Lufthansa will continue flying the 747. At least the 747-8.
@@lr1898 Yh but the previous airlines such as BA and Qantas have not got any which has left a huge hole in the 747-8 program
747 not died yet, it still fly in Cargo
@@Cua625 Yeah but we won't see it as often in the skies and in airports like Heathrow where the 747 is always pictured with Virgin and BA
Very nice...
13:00 that frowny face is so funny to see
Interesting video I always thought why Iberia is not serving Asian destinations because of merger with BA .. That's so cool man...I love the video ❤️❤️❤️❤️...I appreciate the study you take before any video in this channel and also in your main channel Simple flying 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Same as how KL focus more on Asia and AF focus on Africa. Both combined together for Americans.
@@bearchan3181 They use to split the US-Canada, KLM going to airports like ORD, DFW, YVR, YYC while AirFrance flying to MSP, SEA, IAH, ATL... in 2019 both airlines flew these routes.
Seems strange not to include Ryanair Group (Buzz, Lauda, Malta Air & Ryanair) in the mammoths. It is technically the biggest in Europe.
Lauda’s gone and Malta, along with Lauda Europe (Maltese company) operate as Ryanair. That’s shy it really wasn’t mentioned.
@@afcgeo882 Fairly certain Malta Air and Lauda Europe operate as their own companies with their own planes, albeit in Ryanair livery and uniforms.
Sure, it's shenanigans for taxes, wages and market share.. but that's pretty much what all the conglomerates are about.. so it makes little sense to leave out Ryanair Group.
@@NMY232 Lauda Europe and Malta Air are both wet lease operators to RyanAir and operate (as you’ve said) as RyanAir. As such, while they’re legally separate entities, they are counted as a single airline for the purposes of this video. This one’s about separate airlines joining forces to become conglomerates, but operating as separate companies. Ryanair is a very different situation. RyanAir is closer to Norwegian.
You should do the other major airlines in N. America: Aeromexico, Volaris, Skywest, and Air Canada
KLM always took a pride in keeping peace with the unions
fascinating aviation video; like a 101 on the International Mergers
They are not nice for passengers
Can you do a video about
- Air China, China Eastern, China Southern and Hainan Airlines
- Emirates and Eithad
- Japan Airlines and ANA
-Qantas and Virgin Australia
When I worked in management in an airline I predicted that within 10 years there would be only five major airline left in the west, USA, Canada and Europe. We are on the way, some years later and I think 2020 will be the deciding year.
We are already in 2021 at the time you wrote this comment lol
So, has it come to pass?
Possibly for the future IAG / Qantas / Air New Zealand / Air Canada integration.
In 30 years time?? only time will tell for these airline groups!!
Can you do a video on TK and the Kangaroo route that they want to start.
0:38, that's a Lufty Dreamliner, interesting!
Yep, they've ordered 20 787-9s, but their distribution the group isn't clear yet.
@@lucas_k23 before Covid, it was likley that Austrian will get the 787 while Swiss should recive the A-350
Initially KLM were in talks with BA. But when the talks failed,they joined with AIR FRANCE.
Iberia was also in talks with AirFrance but the PS government in France made sure to block that before it ever became a reality
@@johnwellington5754 Thats news. After BA literally bailed them out bu forming IAG.
@@jimbo6059 This was in the late 90s btw not recently
@@johnwellington5754 Apparently they are in talks again.
@@jimbo6059 AF-KLM and Iberia?
That short 747 is such a cute plane! Lol!
Great! But, what about Air Dolomiti? It's 100% Lufthansa Group. Sun Express and Aerologic are into the group too, but Lufthansa owns only 50% of shares.
Can you make a video on airline privatisation and why some government funded airlines wanna go private?
Just look up privitazationn vs naturalization
Aer Lingus has really grown under IAG ownership.Massive expansion into North America (would be nice to see some South American and Asian routes out of Dublin with them though).
Long may this continue. At the height of the pandemic, there was a fear that Aer Lingus would be round up. Thankfully this hasn’t happened (yet!). The Irish are very proud of Aer Lingus.
I don’t understand why IAG is setting up Aer Lingus UK though to fly transatlantic routes from a new base in Manchester when they have BA in the uk already. Surely it would be easier to use BA on UK routes?
I don't know the exact circumstances, but things like that are often down to different pay scales. My guess is that they're paying the Aer Lingus staff less. It's also possible that Aer Lingus has some kind of special deal with the US authorities that BA doesn't.
I pressume its a means to compete with virgin transatlantic as BA dont have any flights out of manchester apart from regional flights
Can you talk about Lion Air, I think they're interesting. They're a Low-Cost Airline but had 2 747s before. That's a bit unusual right?
Ahh, Yep, My Country Airline ( Lion air ) are Low- Cast Butt They Have B747
I have flown Lion Air to Bandung from Bali before...They aren't really that bad
They're the only budget airline with a 747, right?
@@johnxina8927 yep, Garuda indonesia Are budget too, But Garuda indonesia Not to Budget i think, But Garuda Have B747
@@shoba999 Garuda Indonesia is the flag carrier airline of Indonesia and is not a budget airline. It has first class included to its cabins on 777-300ERs. Garda Indonesia had 747s, but is now replaced with 777-300ERs.
I feel that air ticket price to Europe has surged in last decade.
Taxes on the ticket have risen, not sure about the profit to the airlines.
If the price goes any higher I will revert back to the way my parents and grandparents went to and from Europe when I was a boy. That is to simply book passage on one of the big ocean liners that travel from New York to Southampton and back. It’s a much more enjoyable way to travel anyway lol especially if you have the time. Spending 5-7 leisurely days crossing the Atlantic on a ship is much more appealing than being crammed into an airplane even with a first class ticket. Also, they are much less concerned with how much luggage and it’s weight you bring along. That’s it I’ve talked myself into it lol. Next year I’m planning a trip to see family in England and I will definitely be on an ocean liner lol WOOHOO!!!
Europe needs to expand towards the tropics.... what we need is group bulk
Nice
Congratulations 🎉👏 of being the top comment 👍😁 (as of now 😈)
@@itstomatogear6806 thanks
KLM is my favorite airline ! It’s the QUEEN that’s why it has the crown.
Thought they were going to talk about the 747-800 planes.
What is with Air Dolomiti in the Lufthansa Group
what about airdolomiti :d wasn't it a part of LH?
I can't figure out how the European Commission doesn't forbid the IAG's acquisition of AirEuropa, because IAG will have a complete monopoly on the Spanish Market, with IBERIA, AirEuropa, Vueling and Level dominating it.
Ryanair is the most used airline in Spain 🙃
@@darioclcoslada ok ryanair only flies medium haul and is the first carrier also in other countries, but Iberia and Air Europa cover different purposes from low cost carriers and you know that so don't try to jusy say that Iberia and Air Europa wouldn't be too big as a coalition (given also the fact that IAG also has LEVEL and Vueling) becausr they would, especially on long haul flights. But EU just sees what it wants
@@airplanewhat5316 I know that it could be a case of Monopoly, and they know it too, because it's going to get almost all of Spain air control. That the reason why they have taken decisions with other national airline. fly-news.es/aviacion-comercial/iag-volotea-acuerdan-traspaso-rutas-nacionales/
Aer Lingus is my favorite airline.
same here, easily the best
Surprised that it wasn't mention that Qatar owns 25.1% of IAG's share capital
Any comment on the IAG share purchase by Qatar Airways?
i didn’t know Lufthansa operated the 747SP-400
IAG also just acquired AirEuropa got 500k
Yeeet
Few facts before we analyse the EU Airlines. 1/ The 3 ME will wither to their skeleton, the growth of electric power, AI and democracy will change the landscape of ME. 2/ Far east and India will see the largest growth of these countries for the same reasons as above i.e, Electric power, AI and democracy. India will show huge growth of it airlines, starting with Indigo. 3/ EU airlines will struggle, similar as its economies, here again, Lufthansa group will be the strongest. IAG will be worst, the 2 largest budget carriers of EU, EZY and FR will have huge bites of IAG network. The Max9 and A321XLR will eat into the transatlantic over the pond.
Iag 😍
Real giants I haven't flown on any of them
🇫🇷🇳🇱🇩🇪🇬🇧🇪🇸
you forgot the Irish flag for Ryanair and Air Lingus
💚
At timestamp 6:58 isn’t LOT Polish Airlines part of Lufthansa Group?
No lot is owned by the polish gouvernent
Speaking from experience, KLM is the best airline and the worst one is brussels airlines for sure
It's probably gonna be much different in 2030
British Airways 747SP with winglets. British Airways merged with British Caledonian.
B Cal went Bankrupt and BA took the routes, Heathrow landing slots, and SOME of the Aircraft. That's how BA acquired DC-10's. So NOT a merger! BA bought Tri-Star's instead.
Guppy de Bruntingthorpe was sent to the airport demolition parking lot, it was being restored, give Victor de Marham one last chance
we are quite capable of saving 3 BA747 retrojets (which is much more monstrous in size) DO SOMETHING! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Interesting. IAG share price compared to Ryan Air and other European LCCs hasn’t yet recovered post COVID-19.. why?
Because it's not post covid-19 yet...?
@@simondahl5437 Clearly - but how does that explain LCCs such as Ryan Air share price almost back to pre-covid levels?
@@airlineshow Because Ryanair is in better financial shape, hasn't needed a bailout and will be in a position to mop up market share coming out of the crisis. Same goes for Wizz
@@airlineshow, Because low-cost airlines were able to stimulate demand for low-cost leisure routes... While bigger less flexible airlines can’t,
1. Their customer base is largely business, meaning basically no demand for the business focused airlines like Lufthansa and British Airways.
2. Their routes are usually developed country to developed country, while leisure countries have a tendency to be less developed meaning less COVID restrictions = more flights for the leisure airlines, AKA low-cost airlines = fast recovery
@@airlineshow Ryanair has a large number of “self employed” staff, it can cut its costs much more dramatically than most other airlines. Easy share price is about half what it was in January. IAG had a recapitalisation last month that drove the share price down also BA’s major routes are primarily to the USA
i think they should invest in HST inside europe!!
Disliked for the missing advertisements, next time I'd like to have 28 ads please....
Funny that 15 Years after EU Competition Commissioner said that he didn't want to take customers the choice of which airlines to take, Lufthansa is the only Airline remaining in Germany.
Also Germanwings is basically only a shell airline by now, the brand is nowhere to be seen nowadays because of the unfortunate suizid pilot in the French alps.
All planes now fry under the eurowings brand name and livery as fas as I know.
I never saw a eurowings or Germanwings plane ever.
Considering Air France KLM only has two airlines, it competes rather well with the others.
Air France KLM containes much more than only two airlines: Air France owns the Regional Carrier Air France Hop, the majority of the LCC Transavia France and its Cargo Daughter Air France Cargo. KLM holds the Regional Carrier KLM Cityhopper, the LCC Transavia and the Cargo Carrier Martinair. So all in all the Air Frnace KLM Group containes eight (!) Airlines.
@@NicolaW72 You clearly were created to just annoy people out of their minds.
@@snowbowman1 That´s no reason to insult me. I just wanted to be politely to you and wanted to give you additional information, but ok, I will not do it again. I´m sorry that I´ve annoyed you, please excuse me.
that ba 747 and lufthansa 747 looks like roblox
except ryanair cuz ryanair is fine on its own because customers love their inarguably good service
China Southern, China Eastern, Air China
KLM and Air france own Transavia but oh well
Why kLM have a boing predominant fleet and AIR FRANCE a more airbus fleet like?
Because KLM has always had Boeings, so it would’ve been too expensive to change them all to Airbuses
KLM is way more successful with its Boeing fleet though
Because Airbus is also a French company.
@@xanderschilperoort1911 interesting that KLM's latest order has been all airbus
KLM has had a stake Kenya Airways since 1996.
They own just 7.8%.
Think they just sold it.
@@jimbo6059 Not yet, but it seems that the Kenyan government wants to buy them out.
Before I was big fan of Lufthansa airlines but not now. It is quite expensive as compared to airlines with almost the same amenities. I watched a review by James Asquith and it opened my eyes.
Why has Southwest made number one airline in the U S yet has not partnered with anyone else and yet all others have.
Too many acquisitions. Please put a graph/diagram next time
for me Iberia and British Airways is the weirdest ,putting the spanish and the english in the same group
BA flirted with KLM, but they where in competition on TOO many routes. Iberia was a much better fit as there where very few routes they competed on.
Clicked this video faster than James Charles say hey sisters
KLM's culture is closer to Lufthansa or IAG, while Iberia's is closer to AirFrance. Brussel Airlines makes more sense with AirFrance.
Without AF, KLM would be irrelevant on the Transatlantic market just like Alitalia, Brussels and Iberia. Through Delta and Air France, KLM was able to build up a massive hub at Schipol and fly to so many destinations
3:52 where does AS fly a Q400 and KLM flies an A330???
KLM Has plenty of A330's see www.flightradar24.com/data/airlines/kl-klm/fleet mainly flown on routes to the Americas and Alaskan (Horizon Air subsidiary) fly their Q400's to lots of places mainly from there Seattle hub.
Vancouver International Airport in Canada
Three big euro groups and Three Alliances. Coincidence??
What if the biggest carriers merged
In Europe, they will probably not be allowed since there would be a monopoly, which is everything except beneficial for us, the travelers.
It is hard so see such a fabulous airline like KLM attached to a bureaucrat-led state agency like Air France. I hope that the Dutch manage to break free! Greetings from Austria
Did you miss the part where KLM was almost bankrupt
@@MrJimheeren 25 years ago
@@richardschenk4058 less then 18 and right now we go trough the biggest crisis the airlines ever had to since 9/11. I like KLM it’s my nations biggest airline and the service is good. I’m also aware the Netherlands is small and so is KLM, it’s basically the smallest major airline in the world. Without Air France KLM will be eaten alive and all the hate on the French is nonsense anyway
@@MrJimheeren Air France is on a intravenous drip from the French state for almost 30 years, otherwise it would have gone bankrupt before the merger with / takeover of KLM. But it is true, the group rescued KLM of bankruptcy, but also the Dutch government could have done so. They didn’t want to so they pushed them into a merger, or better a takeover. Since the merger KLM soon became the great money machine for Air France’s employees, their jobs, their unchanged wages and early retirements. KLM has payed the money back and beyond. And is still stuck on Air France, it can’t break away.
@@MrJimheeren So was Air France......
I shall never fly an aielinw which has or is about to have 737 max
this was quite confusing would love a break down of each,
Instead of showing the pics of the Boeing 747 of these European Mammoths it would have been better if you showed their A380s sice they video talks about European airlines.
Best flight I ever had was with Brussels Airlines
Lufthansa
Air Europe, Vueling and Level should just be integrated into one LCC...
Level’s gone. Air Europe isn’t an airline. Air Europa is a misguided acquisition at a time when Level is dying as a brand as well. IAG’s not going to recover well from this pandemic.
@@afcgeo882 Only Group NOT to have been bailed out by Government.......Raised money from Shareholders as it should be. NOT TAX Payers Like the other TWO Groups...... Level playing Field Any one?
@@alanc.1213 Oh yeah?
www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/07/has-british-airways-taken-a-government-bailout/
www.godsavethepoints.com/british-airways-iag-willie-walsh-bailouts/
www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/05/01/british-airways-parent-company-accepts-e1-billion-bailout-from-spanish-government/amp/
www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/01/iberia-and-vueling-are-bailed-out-by-spain-whilst-ba-makes-redundancies-as-it-wont-take-state-cash/
www.businesstraveller.com/features/these-airlines-have-received-a-bailout/
What other bullshit will you be spreading today?
Air Europe was an airline, based at Gatwick for many years, started as charter and then took on some scheduled routes once BA took over British Caledonian. Air Europa was a subsidiary of Air Europe which was owned by international leisure group or ILG. When Air Europe went bust in the early to mid 1990s BA took over the British interests and a Spanish corporation took over Air Europa.
KLM has been doing much better than Air France for years, making a profit against Air France's sky-high debts. Air France wants to use the profits that KLM makes to clear its debts. Within the Holding, Air France acts in its own interest instead of group interest
AF rescued KLM so I don't think KLM has much to say. AF opened many doors for KLM, the alliance of the two isn't going anywhere anytime soon
Lufthansa thus only seems to accept companies in the group where the German language is an official language.
That`s not quite right, they also own Italian based Air Dolomiti.
@@JUICYFRUITSNAXX Don't quote me on it, but I know they speak German in some parts of Italy; would this maybe explain it?
@@IT-vl2zh .That would be South Tyrol. Taken from Austro/hungarians WWI?
@@asdf-fl1ib Yes, a historically German region without a big Italian influence. Many actually are separatists and want to go to Austria.
@@Sedna063 no offence to Austria but idk who would want to join them :( Italy is much nicer
A Video about Indian Aviation industry
Tell Air France to send a a350 to LAX
Long before KLM and Air France merged, the merger between BA and KLM was mooted (maybe mid to late 90s?)
I can't remember the details, but I'm sure Lufthansa objected, and ultimately the UK's Monopolies and Mergers Committee rejected it as they said it would be far too large a company and reduce choice to the consumer 🤷
How things change
Unlike the US and Europe well always run into issues with consolidation because they are separate countries and have to keep separate brands. They are disadvantaged of the synergies and cost savings that can be really realized
Fact:Qatar airlines own 25% of IAG
KLM 😍
03:28 so offensive, only make can be pilots? and females are destined to be flight attendants?
Swissair collapsed in 2002
You forgot levels going in Canadians cities like Montreal or Toronto.
Not really. Level only exists as a low cost part of Iberia now, similar to Air Canada’s Rouge, but even less so, as Level only flies Iberia’s planes in Iberia liveries.
@@afcgeo882 Well i saw many levels liveries this summer in montreal but maybe it has changed.
@@flight_planned_route Yeah... unfortunately, things have changed. www.ifn.news/posts/level-europe-enters-insolvency/
Zahrat
You forgot about Avianca
How so? It is not European but based out of Columbia with if I am not mistaken ownership by US based investors.
@@patrickmccutcheon9361 no I meant how come they have never or rarely flown to South America using avianca. I should’ve specified
@@edgarreyes3184 at one point Avianca was in Lufthansa’s star alliance and offered connecting flights in South America for passengers coming to Bogotá with Lufthansa. I believe it also partners with Iberia which in turn partners with LATAM the big player in South America.
Many low cost / budget airlines went bankrupt after Since 9/11..Was a great loss of so many of them offered equally top flight on board service including free meals & drinks...Of course now since Covid19 the airline / travel industry has taken a further plunge towards bankruptcy, due to far right government politics on travel restrictions!..Control orders has seen many travellers lose thousands of their invested ticket finances not been refunded...Organizations such as (IATA & ABTA) must step in to ensure prospective travellers do not bear the "brunt" of inept government handling / failures of Covid19.. Until this is implemented into operation, there will never be prosperity in the future of the travel industry!...Many more will seek to go bankrupt !
A chance that KLM and Air France may split, if their difference continues to drift
Very improbable since KLM depends on Air France and Delta for its network and after working for DL for 20 years I know the loyalty here is more to AF than KLM... If they split it would most likely come from the Dutch government nationalizing the airline
Qatar airways europe airline china airport africa airline pak airport india airport world economic forum 🌎🌍
-has British airways in the video
- has eu flag in thumbnail