Thanks Mike for hanging in there and figuring out the proper way to handle an electric car in an extreme cold environments. You make me feel better about the Mach-E.
What a roller coaster! I really need to do at least an hour trip though just to confirm the system holds up as it should. I hope to do that in the near future and I will be sure to post results
Glad you got it sorted Mike, and glad to see you are finally running on Auto and letting the car do its thing. It definitely works best that way, and it really should be mentioned in the documentation somewhere, because it makes a world of difference in really cold climates. Lastly I will also add that keeping Auto set to 1 bar, rather than 3 bars, might also actually work better despite sounding counterintuitive. Reason being is that even at 1 bar the car will ramp up speed of fan as needed, but no more than 1/4 speed, and by doing this you limit the amount of cold outside air you suck in when the car is pulling outside air. Of course in Auto it cycles automatically between inside and outside air, but I've found in my car that keeping it set to Auto at 1 bar, actually resulted in the car heating up faster, and retaining that heat longer, and again it's likely due to the fact that it sucks in less cold air from outside that quickly dissipates the heat it's producing. Give that a shot, and maybe do a final comparison, and hopefully you end up with similar results.
Wow -30°C!!! Seldom experienced such temperatures over here in Switzerland! Mike, the owners manual says, that departure schedule also heats the battery: "You can improve driving range and performance by scheduling departure times and cabin comfort level with the Departure and Comfort feature. This will not only warm or cool the cabin but also condition the battery to ensure best driving range and perform." When looking that the "Remote start" section, there it only says that the interiour will be heated. Seems pretty clear to me.
Correct on the departure schedule and this is covered in a later video. However I have experienced a couple times where the departure schedule either doesn't work or doesn't draw the appropriate grid power to warm the battery prior to departure. This was measured from both a charge point app and also an electrical monitor from sense. I'm hoping these are temporary bugs and will be fixed in a OTA update. Being plugged in and setting the departure schedule are definitely a must in very cold weather.
Mike, when I purchased my Mach E they provided me a Ford Guide for cold weather driving and battery health tips designed for their service techs. It was very helpful. I’ve found preconditioning works very well in maintaining a warm cabin. I work all day out of my Mach E in Maine traveling 100-150 miles. I have found I’ve lost about 75-100 miles of range on days the temps dip below 10F.
I thought I would let you know that I just ran into some engineers at a charging station in northern Michigan. He asked me about the heat. I told him it was awful. He mentioned that they were out working on it. Three groups of engineers, two with the mache and one with the lightning. He said there will be an OTA update by next winter.
That's amazing. Did they elaborate on how the OTA would work? I wonder if they will divert some of the heat that goes to the battery and force it to the cabin? I think this is a major issue where I believe the cabin heat is neglected in favor of the battery loop. This is good news!
All i can say is first year issues Give them time and they will roll out the training and parts that they need, they are still working on orders so it will be a while before they have spares
Hey Mike, do you still have your Mach E? I would love to see some more MN specific videos! Question for you, with a long-range would I have any issues in the MN cold making it 155 miles on a single charge even if I were not to pre-condition? Also, maybe you're a Ford guy but do you ever regret the Mach E vs. a Model Y? Thanks!
I still do have the MME! I have the long range battery as well. With +1 F temp I made it 165 miles, but had very little to spare when I hit the charger. I didn't pre-condition on this trip, but I did start in a 55F garage. On the return trip, I made it 170 miles in 5F temp, parked outside for 3 days but I did plug it in to 220 and pre-conditioned. I don't know if I would have made it if I didn't as much of that energy would have been spent getting the battery and cabin to temp. In 15F or better, not a problem. I didn't regret going with Ford, although I don't have a Tesla so I can't compare fully. I wanted to go with the MME since I have several dealers very close to me. It would be a 3 hour drive to the nearest Tesla dealer. I also didn't like that Tesla wasn't playing nice with everyone else and has a proprietary charger system-although they will allow others on their network in 2024.
@@upnorthmike6085 Thanks. Those numbers certainly would cut it close. I am worried about the lack of a heat pump and what it would mean a few years from now when the batter is degraded a bit. Hopefully Ford adds a heat pump this next model year and I could consider the MME. I appreciate your videos, keep up the good work.
@@upnorthmike6085 On the 170 mile trip with pre-conditioning, do you know how much charge (in miles) you had remaining when you arrived at your destination?
@@keanen_wold about 9. It was cutting it much closer than I would have liked! Again, temp is the key here! If it would have been 10 degrees warmer, I bet I would have had 20 ish or more miles of range
Glad you found something that works for you. Just curious: do you know if departure times work if you're not plugged in as well? Definitely more of a pain than having to just tap remote start, but I'd be willing to program a departure time and use up some extra battery if it's the difference between a cold and warm car. Hopefully Ford makes a one button precondition button in addition to preset departure times.
@@stevemit2858 Right on. My first thought was something like going to see a movie. I can know pretty accurately what time the movie will end and when I'll get out but unless my local infrastructure gets a big upgrade, I won't be plugged in while at the movie. It'd be nice to be able to preset the departure before going into the theater and come out to a preconditioned car. In that case, I'm thinking the extended time won't be much of an issue.
As Steve said, yes. There is a warning in the app that advises when not plugged in, more battery power is used for the process. If you didn't have a far commute or can charge at your destination, I wouldn't worry at all about it, especially in very cold weather. If the app speeds up a bit it will make it much faster to set the departure times, but it's a little slow right now, which is a pain when you are trying to set different times when you don't know your schedule for the week.
What would you think of an EV at 30 to 40 below like where I live and no garage? I am pretty good at preparing for the cold but at times I need to just jump in the car and go. Will it take forever to get things heated up in that scenario? ICE vehicles take a while to heat up too. You have to heat up the engine using gas or diesel before you get any heat to heat the cab.
Mike, When you mention a "heated garage" what temp point is your target. I live in Northern Mi, I don't have a heated garage but the temp inside the garage , regardless of the outside temp in the winter stays around 38 - 40 degrees worst case. Would I still have to set a departure time as opposed to just doing a 15 to 20 minute preheat?
My heated garage stays around 65F average throughout the winter. At 40F, you might be OK with just the 15 minute "remote start" feature. My suggestion would be to try just starting the car 15 minutes prior to leaving for the day. Do this for 2-3 times and see if the cabin temp remains comfortable. If you feel the air starting to blow cold, that means the heater is redirecting too much heat down to the batteries and your cabin likely will not warm back up. If that's the case, you'll have to set the departure schedule. My hunch is you'll be ok with the remote start, but please report back when that time comes.
I'm not sure I follow. If you are plugged in to a 120v outlet, the departure time will still use some or all of that plug in power to help pre-condition the battery and vehicle. You will get much more benefit from a 240v power source, but something is better than nothing.
It would survive just about anything, the big question is how much energy will be spent getting the battery bank and ultimately the interior up to running temp. Even with the HVAC software update, the cabin would not be warm after letting the car run in remote start mode for 15 minutes. You might have a shot at warm air after 25-30 minutes. Honestly, when it's that cold out, I just take my ICE vehicle.
Mike, I live in NH and getting my MME in 2 weeks. I am retired so never have a schedule per se. On a day that I know I will be using the MME can I just set up my departure time an hour before I need the car? Then it gets the battery and cabin ready vs just preconditing the cabin.
Yes, you can. It will only condition the battery bank when plugged in however. If you are not plugged in to grid power, it will only precondition the cabin if you have that feature enabled.
Yes. I don't recall it being this bad last year and I suspect it may have something to do with some recent updates, especially after my car needed the TSB on the heating system
Electric heaters, run by battery, don't put out that much heat. The following suggestion is not going to be popular. There is space in that car for ,, Diesel heater,, The amount of exhaust fumes will be minimal. You would need to run the exhaust carefully. It is not needed in moderate temperatures. Think of the fuel heater as a stop gap between super cold temps, and moderate temps. I doubt it will work for defrost, but, just to keep from freezing in the car. If the interior is warm, the electric part won't need to work as hard.
and when you go to work, and your car is sitting outside all day long, you will be very cold on the way home, as well as having limited power available. Nope
But wouldn't you agree any car sitting outside all day long will be cold at first? In a recent video I did, Ford has a TSB fix for the HVAC system which I had done. I will follow up on these videos once I have a chance to compare some similar temps
@@upnorthmike6085 you bet, but with an ICE vehicle, I don't lose close to 1/2 my mpg just because it is cold, like a battery does.. and an ICE vehicle has the ability to thoroughly heat the interior without any trouble. If I have an automatic start I can pre-heat an ICE vehicle and I only burn a small amount of fuel doing it. If I need to fuel up it takes 5 minutes to have a full tank again.
@@upnorthmike6085 don't get me wrong, I like the idea of having an EV, but the battery situation needs to seriously improve! I would really like to get one for my wife, but then that would mean she would have to use a different car once in a while in the winter.. how many can afford an EV and also a decent gas burner?
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Thanks Mike for hanging in there and figuring out the proper way to handle an electric car in an extreme cold environments. You make me feel better about the Mach-E.
What a roller coaster! I really need to do at least an hour trip though just to confirm the system holds up as it should. I hope to do that in the near future and I will be sure to post results
Thanks for your relentless pursuit of this issue. It helps me immensely as a Michigan MachE driver.
You bet Jeffrey, more to come as I learn more too!
Glad you got it sorted Mike, and glad to see you are finally running on Auto and letting the car do its thing. It definitely works best that way, and it really should be mentioned in the documentation somewhere, because it makes a world of difference in really cold climates.
Lastly I will also add that keeping Auto set to 1 bar, rather than 3 bars, might also actually work better despite sounding counterintuitive. Reason being is that even at 1 bar the car will ramp up speed of fan as needed, but no more than 1/4 speed, and by doing this you limit the amount of cold outside air you suck in when the car is pulling outside air. Of course in Auto it cycles automatically between inside and outside air, but I've found in my car that keeping it set to Auto at 1 bar, actually resulted in the car heating up faster, and retaining that heat longer, and again it's likely due to the fact that it sucks in less cold air from outside that quickly dissipates the heat it's producing.
Give that a shot, and maybe do a final comparison, and hopefully you end up with similar results.
Wow -30°C!!! Seldom experienced such temperatures over here in Switzerland!
Mike, the owners manual says, that departure schedule also heats the battery:
"You can improve driving range and performance by scheduling departure times and cabin comfort level with the Departure and Comfort feature. This will not only warm or cool the cabin but also condition the battery to ensure best driving range and perform."
When looking that the "Remote start" section, there it only says that the interiour will be heated.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Correct on the departure schedule and this is covered in a later video. However I have experienced a couple times where the departure schedule either doesn't work or doesn't draw the appropriate grid power to warm the battery prior to departure. This was measured from both a charge point app and also an electrical monitor from sense. I'm hoping these are temporary bugs and will be fixed in a OTA update. Being plugged in and setting the departure schedule are definitely a must in very cold weather.
I'd commented on your first cold weather video, and thanks for this update. Good to know the importance of preconditioning.
Mike, when I purchased my Mach E they provided me a Ford Guide for cold weather driving and battery health tips designed for their service techs. It was very helpful. I’ve found preconditioning works very well in maintaining a warm cabin. I work all day out of my Mach E in Maine traveling 100-150 miles. I have found I’ve lost about 75-100 miles of range on days the temps dip below 10F.
Wow, I wish I would have received that guide. I bet driving all day with the heater working that your range would drop quite a bit
Glad to see a happy resolution to this series! Maybe a short video on setting departure times etc?
Great suggestion, will do!
Great video. Very thorough. Thank you Mike.
Thanks for this clarification!
I thought I would let you know that I just ran into some engineers at a charging station in northern Michigan. He asked me about the heat. I told him it was awful. He mentioned that they were out working on it. Three groups of engineers, two with the mache and one with the lightning. He said there will be an OTA update by next winter.
That's amazing. Did they elaborate on how the OTA would work? I wonder if they will divert some of the heat that goes to the battery and force it to the cabin? I think this is a major issue where I believe the cabin heat is neglected in favor of the battery loop. This is good news!
Very informative, thanks!
All i can say is first year issues
Give them time and they will roll out the training and parts that they need, they are still working on orders so it will be a while before they have spares
Hey Mike, do you still have your Mach E? I would love to see some more MN specific videos!
Question for you, with a long-range would I have any issues in the MN cold making it 155 miles on a single charge even if I were not to pre-condition?
Also, maybe you're a Ford guy but do you ever regret the Mach E vs. a Model Y? Thanks!
I still do have the MME! I have the long range battery as well. With +1 F temp I made it 165 miles, but had very little to spare when I hit the charger. I didn't pre-condition on this trip, but I did start in a 55F garage.
On the return trip, I made it 170 miles in 5F temp, parked outside for 3 days but I did plug it in to 220 and pre-conditioned. I don't know if I would have made it if I didn't as much of that energy would have been spent getting the battery and cabin to temp. In 15F or better, not a problem.
I didn't regret going with Ford, although I don't have a Tesla so I can't compare fully. I wanted to go with the MME since I have several dealers very close to me. It would be a 3 hour drive to the nearest Tesla dealer. I also didn't like that Tesla wasn't playing nice with everyone else and has a proprietary charger system-although they will allow others on their network in 2024.
@@upnorthmike6085 Thanks. Those numbers certainly would cut it close. I am worried about the lack of a heat pump and what it would mean a few years from now when the batter is degraded a bit. Hopefully Ford adds a heat pump this next model year and I could consider the MME. I appreciate your videos, keep up the good work.
@@upnorthmike6085 On the 170 mile trip with pre-conditioning, do you know how much charge (in miles) you had remaining when you arrived at your destination?
@@keanen_wold about 9. It was cutting it much closer than I would have liked! Again, temp is the key here! If it would have been 10 degrees warmer, I bet I would have had 20 ish or more miles of range
Glad you found something that works for you. Just curious: do you know if departure times work if you're not plugged in as well? Definitely more of a pain than having to just tap remote start, but I'd be willing to program a departure time and use up some extra battery if it's the difference between a cold and warm car. Hopefully Ford makes a one button precondition button in addition to preset departure times.
Yes departure times work when not plugged in too. But be advised that the colder the temperature the longer the preconditioning time required.
@@stevemit2858 Right on. My first thought was something like going to see a movie. I can know pretty accurately what time the movie will end and when I'll get out but unless my local infrastructure gets a big upgrade, I won't be plugged in while at the movie. It'd be nice to be able to preset the departure before going into the theater and come out to a preconditioned car. In that case, I'm thinking the extended time won't be much of an issue.
As Steve said, yes. There is a warning in the app that advises when not plugged in, more battery power is used for the process. If you didn't have a far commute or can charge at your destination, I wouldn't worry at all about it, especially in very cold weather. If the app speeds up a bit it will make it much faster to set the departure times, but it's a little slow right now, which is a pain when you are trying to set different times when you don't know your schedule for the week.
What would you think of an EV at 30 to 40 below like where I live and no garage? I am pretty good at preparing for the cold but at times I need to just jump in the car and go. Will it take forever to get things heated up in that scenario? ICE vehicles take a while to heat up too. You have to heat up the engine using gas or diesel before you get any heat to heat the cab.
I would say park it at 30 to 40 below, seriously, plugged in or not. You should have a backup vehicle in those situations
@@upnorthmike6085 I Was thinking the same thing and that would work for me.
Mike, When you mention a "heated garage" what temp point is your target. I live in Northern Mi, I don't have a heated garage but the temp inside the garage , regardless of the outside temp in the winter stays around 38 - 40 degrees worst case. Would I still have to set a departure time as opposed to just doing a 15 to 20 minute preheat?
My heated garage stays around 65F average throughout the winter. At 40F, you might be OK with just the 15 minute "remote start" feature. My suggestion would be to try just starting the car 15 minutes prior to leaving for the day. Do this for 2-3 times and see if the cabin temp remains comfortable. If you feel the air starting to blow cold, that means the heater is redirecting too much heat down to the batteries and your cabin likely will not warm back up. If that's the case, you'll have to set the departure schedule. My hunch is you'll be ok with the remote start, but please report back when that time comes.
Does setting the departure time for preconditioning drain the battery IF only plugged into a Level 1 outlet?
I'm not sure I follow. If you are plugged in to a 120v outlet, the departure time will still use some or all of that plug in power to help pre-condition the battery and vehicle. You will get much more benefit from a 240v power source, but something is better than nothing.
@@upnorthmike6085 Does the preconditioning power requirement EXCEED the power that can be delivered (in a set time period) with a Level 1 outlet?
Would the Mach e survive a -30 not plugged in over night ?
It would survive just about anything, the big question is how much energy will be spent getting the battery bank and ultimately the interior up to running temp. Even with the HVAC software update, the cabin would not be warm after letting the car run in remote start mode for 15 minutes. You might have a shot at warm air after 25-30 minutes. Honestly, when it's that cold out, I just take my ICE vehicle.
Mike, I live in NH and getting my MME in 2 weeks. I am retired so never have a schedule per se. On a day that I know I will be using the MME can I just set up my departure time an hour before I need the car? Then it gets the battery and cabin ready vs just preconditing the cabin.
Yes, you can. It will only condition the battery bank when plugged in however. If you are not plugged in to grid power, it will only precondition the cabin if you have that feature enabled.
OK better question, how do you pre condition from work to home if you have no power to hook up the car?
You can precondition still on battery power, that will take from your range however
Anyone notice the range is keep decreasing significantly¿
Yes. I don't recall it being this bad last year and I suspect it may have something to do with some recent updates, especially after my car needed the TSB on the heating system
Electric heaters, run by battery, don't put out that much heat. The following suggestion is not going to be popular. There is space in that car for ,, Diesel heater,, The amount of exhaust fumes will be minimal. You would need to run the exhaust carefully. It is not needed in moderate temperatures. Think of the fuel heater as a stop gap between super cold temps, and moderate temps. I doubt it will work for defrost, but, just to keep from freezing in the car. If the interior is warm, the electric part won't need to work as hard.
and when you go to work, and your car is sitting outside all day long, you will be very cold on the way home, as well as having limited power available. Nope
But wouldn't you agree any car sitting outside all day long will be cold at first? In a recent video I did, Ford has a TSB fix for the HVAC system which I had done. I will follow up on these videos once I have a chance to compare some similar temps
@@upnorthmike6085 you bet, but with an ICE vehicle, I don't lose close to 1/2 my mpg just because it is cold, like a battery does.. and an ICE vehicle has the ability to thoroughly heat the interior without any trouble. If I have an automatic start I can pre-heat an ICE vehicle and I only burn a small amount of fuel doing it. If I need to fuel up it takes 5 minutes to have a full tank again.
@@upnorthmike6085 don't get me wrong, I like the idea of having an EV, but the battery situation needs to seriously improve! I would really like to get one for my wife, but then that would mean she would have to use a different car once in a while in the winter.. how many can afford an EV and also a decent gas burner?