I've been considering a Mach e here in Canada, but im the winter time not letting the cabin preheat is just asking for trouble even in a gas-powered car. Where i live -40c isnt unheard-of.
I know your video is about an outside not plugged in cold start, but I wanted to share my experience today with my MachE. -38 today with -50 wind here in SK. My MachE is in a garage (not heated) over night plugged in and I preconditioned before heading out this morning...also we have had a recent dump of snow about 15 cm and drifts. Plowing here is minimal and my MachE was great. It was warm when I got in and it keep me warm on my drive to work about 30km. I have snow tires and it handles the snow well. I plug in at work but the car is outside. I preconditioned before coming home and again it was warm and kept me warm coming home. All plugged in ready to go again tomorrow with same temps expected. I really love my MachE and have had a great experience with it. There are things I need to do different than with my previous cars but I am very happy I decided to get this electric pony! Road tripping it to Ontario this summer!!
Jules, thanks for sharing with us! I have a video coming in two days on this exact scenario, outside BUT plugged in with a 15 minute preconditioning. I'm doing the same route too so hopefully we can get an accurate comparison between the three most likely scenarios people may face.
Hey Jules! That’s awesome to hear a fellow Sask driver is able to do this in our extreme colds. I just purchased the Mache E Supreme 2023 and have a 60km commute each day. Hope you’re still enjoying the car!
@@ConnorKleisinger-or1xh Hey!! Yes I am still loving my MachE! You will for sure see a drop in range in the very cold weather but so long as you don't have a really long commute it is fine. I charge at home, rarely at the dc chargers except for road trips. Enjoy the car!!!
Hello , i also have a mustang mach e rwd 2021 that i got last june . I am in Canada up north in Ottawa . I am experiencing same issue has you , its very cold here this past week was -28 celsius over night , its start great seat warmer perfect, steering wheel hot but the cabin cannot keep up with cold , e heat not good. I share you frustration .We drove back from Montreal 2 weekend ago it was -22 outside drove for 2 hours and cabin heat could not keep up , my wife feets where frozen, lets say this was not a great ride back home I love my mustang but heating system in very cold not good Thanks Marc we where driving back from Montreal at -20 celsius for 2 hours and my wife feets where frozen ,it was not a great ride home Thanks Marc
Good video, I think you hit the nail on the head ... you need to plug in and precondition in the cold, ALWAYS. I have a premium MachE. My first winter with it. Having an EV does have a learning curve. I live in Saskatchewan and we have been in extreme cold for almost 2 weeks. Mid -30s C temps with almost -50 with wind. Not plugged in and outside the battery would be a block of ice, as are most cars in this kind of cold. So many vehicles won't even start in these temps. I have a garage (not heated but insulated) I always precondition before driving and I have found that the MachE is fine, I haven't been cold while driving. I set my departure times and I find the car is nice and warm when I get in. Far quicker to warm the cabin than my Grand Cherokee or GMC Sierra in these conditions (which I owned previous.) I would need to run them for quite a while to warm them up (more than 20 mins.). Anyhow...just my experience. I am enjoying your videos.
Great info Jules, thanks for your reply. I agree, preconditioning is key, especially when plugged in to grid power and the vehicle is cold. I'm also convinced the cold batteries keep the floor cold (more on this theory in the future)
@@upnorthmike6085 Interesting theory...I haven't noticed but then again I am wearing boots and haven't really thought about it. It is nice to watch the videos of someone who has similar environmental conditions to myself.
Thanks for the info bud, just wondering what your range is like in SK. I live in rural Manitoba and I would like to get an EV for a daily driver. There just isn't much info out there for the intense cold the prairies can see, so any from you would be awesome!
@@trentlewis1473 keep watching some of my other videos for more info on range. To be extremely vague it varies so widely but you could anticipate about 180 miles of range with the bigger battery
Nice to see these extreme weather tests, I’m curious as to why you only had the defrost and foot vent on but not the upper vent to push warmer air to the front and back seats. In my experience with my Mach-e, I need to have the upper vents on as well to really warm up the cabin. I would be interested in another test that uses all the vents if you get similar cold weather
Part of the reason was to limit the number of vents getting air, while hopefully concentrating any warm air the car could produce, which really wasn't much at all in this case. Later this week I'll have one more video on cold weather, this time when the car is plugged in and preconditioned.
Surprised Ford went with a 5kW resistive for both the battery and cabin. We didn't have a heating issue with the Gen 2 Volt Minnesota, but the Volt came equipped with an 8kW cabin + 2 kW battery heater (for a much smaller battery). 10kW total.
No kidding!? I just did an update video with a TSB on the heat issue. In my opinion, it must be about range. Smaller heater, more range. What a mistake!
I believe the issue is that the e-heater can only heat the battery or the cabin not both at the same time, it’s a design flaw of the Mach-e, same with the car cold at a dc fast charger to get faster charging e-heat need to be off so that it can be used to warm the battery
Interesting David. I wish there was a way for the user to see where the e-heat is being directed, such as 100% to battery or a split somewhere in the middle. I agree that is may be a design flaw, or as I stated, give the control back to the user and let me take the hit in range to stay warm. I can see future cars having a dedicated PTC heater so cabin temp is not affected so much.
14:59 really tells the story. If you let your battery pack turn into an ice block, a significant part of your heating capacity for the first hour+ of operation is going to be used on warming up the battery pack. Notice ambient temperature, that is energy spent heating the battery pack. It's almost as much as climate use. As many others have mentioned, preconditioning the vehicle will get around this. You can even do so when unplugged, it's just going to draw from your charge level instead of utility power. Bottom line, you have given the worst possible conditions and the vehicle still operated at least marginally. I don't think that Ford "let us down" by any stretch.
I respectfully disagree on the "let us down" part. More recent videos cover preconditioning in depth, and yes, it's MUCH better. The HVAC system TSB update helped a little more as well. However, when compared to a Tesla with a heat pump, those vehicles have little issue heating in these conditions. Even with preconditioning AND coming from a heated garage, in the temps specified in the video, the vehicle will lose capacity enough that again, it's not keeping up. I'm hearing from some 2023+ owners this isn't the case, but 2021-22 model years seem to struggle.
@@upnorthmike6085 I did see your later videos after I left this comment. Thanks for your response. I live in central WI so we do usually get down to those -20 temps at least a couple times every winter. We'll see how my '21 Mach E does this year and comment back here.
@@pseudocoder78 If you have the '21, please make sure your dealer installed the HVAC cold weather update. It's not available OTA, so you have to bring it in. I went on a 5 hour road trip. Car started in a 67 F degree garage for over 18 hours. Outside temp was 3F. In about 2 hours, we all had sweatshirts on and at 3 hours the kids were pissed. For what we pay for these vehicles and the alleged "testing" Ford did, you've got to be kidding me. They can do better.
I want to thank you for this. I just took delivery of my Mach-E a week ago in Whitehorse, Yukon and while I'm aware that my winter experience is going to be radically different than it is now, the temperature you ran this demo in represents unusually cold weather even here (I.e. yes, it can get colder, but -27C is colder than the median here), it's good to have some foreknowledge before I see days this cold.
Mike, Have you tried reducing the fan speed to 3-5 rather than high. I think the HI speed is too high and overcomes the heater core capacity. I had a -2F morning here and had oodles of heat. But I limit my fan no higher than 4.
Yes, I did this in several future videos. In my experience in this extreme cold, the heat stays warmer at a lower fan setting, but it still could not keep up. With your -2F, were you plugged in and preconditioned?
@@upnorthmike6085 I’m the AM yes but on my way home 9 hours later I was not, still had plenty of heat, I would reach out to Ford Service, if it cannot be repaired, it’s a lemon Law issue for inadequate heat. Some have had defective PTC heaters that have been resolved by the dealer, I have ample heat on 70F and fan speed 2-3 down to -2f.
Thank you for sharing this information. My suggestion should you decide to try it is ...as soon as the windshield is under control switch to... floor heat/ dash, don't share it with the windshield ( you may have to switch back and forth @ times to de frost/fog) also treat the automatic temperature control as lo medium and high, so switch to "full" heat and recirc instead of 85 degrees. Please see if this gives more comfort quicker. Note: some Tesla owners report being very cold with the Tesla heat pump in severe weather also.
The only reason I didn't turn it to max heat is that is also runs the fan full blast then, at the 85 setting you still have fan speed control. Good point though on the air hitting the cold glass which in theory would be cooling it down quicker than air exiting through the lower and mid vents. I would also think a heat pump would be far less efficient than a PTC heater in extreme cold. If I had a Tesla, that would be in interesting comparison.
I’m hoping I can drop the Silverado rst I ouch to get it in my garage. It’s a standard height and width garage. So it’s going to be tight. But if it drops 2” should be ok. I hope. Because I can’t imagine leaving it outside for that kind of weather. My gmc Sierra gas does it. But the electric can’t
I have an ID.4, live near Québec City Canada and my car sleeps outside. With very low temperatures, this VW warms up faster than an ICE car because heat does not wait after an engine warmup. But I do open every outlet: defroster, front and feet. When as cold as that, you won't count on the heat pump, it will be insufficient, heat comes from resistive elements. I see that heat can take as much as 10KW, hopefully lowering after a while. Wondering if you can see how many KW are used for heat by the Mach-E in similar conditions.
That Mach-E has a 5kw PTC heater, no heat pump and no option to put more kw in heating, which as I'm learning now, seems to be quite a limitation for cold weather.
I feel like that car may have a problem. I can set my MME GT on automatic climate and 68 and it'll be warmed up in a few mins. This is only at 0° Celsius. I do use the departure times when possible and the car is extremely warm waiting on you.
It's possible the departure time use is key. I hope to be able to test this soon to confirm, as what I'm learning is that using the "remote start" feature may not be good enough on the bitterly cold days. Stay tuned
Weird… I mean I’m not in -17 degrees.. today it was 14 degrees Fahrenheit i pre started my Mach-E California route 1 for about 10 mins when I got it in.. it was like a Sauna in there. I turned my temp to 68 degrees and left it on Auto all day. Left the house with a 265 guess-o meter at 100% drove 112 miles came home at 59% with 162 miles left of guess o meter. Maybe something might be malfunctioning?
I have found that even 15 degrees colder makes a huge difference in cabin comfort. The difference from 0 to -15F is noticeable for sure. One more video coming out tomorrow to round out the series of options for cabin comfort, stay tuned
The last time I was in the Midwest, my rental car's fuel line froze and it was -10 degrees out. Subjecting an electric car to -17 and it still working is nothing short of an engineering miracle!
I have the same car and am interested in seeing what the quickest way to heat the cabin is without being plugged in. Is it the manual settings like you had or the Auto 3? Buddy of mine just caravanned with a Model Y whose heat pump would quit working when temps dropped to single digits. Cabin temps dropped to 32F with the kids in the backseat. Mach-E has a 5kW PTC heater which should overcome the cold air.
I would also think a heat pump would be far less efficient than a PTC heater in extreme cold. If I had a Tesla, that would be in interesting comparison
Ca you ask dealer if Ford Thinking about add V2L feature to model 2023, literally like big power bank for home in case of power failure. I have to admit I looking for electric car but option in my country are limited, very expensive and lack of this and other car yet in 2022. I think most of power gone to pre heat car battery until it reach minimum recommended temperature. Great video, BRGDS from Mexico.
I would not burn any combustion type device inside of any vehicle. The danger for a fire is far too great. Do you have the ability to plug it in and do a pre-conditioning using the departure schedule?
Hi Ken, first I'll cover the complete cold start as I did in this video, then a warm garage start, then a parked outside/preconditioned start. After that, I'll go more into detail on range in the winter, once I log more miles and hours in the car. That way, we should see more accurate results and a better average of MPGe.
In the mid 70’s, my family moved to Glasgow, MT, a place that routinely was in competition for the coldest place in the US. My parents had a VW bus. I was very young, but I believe that it had a second heater, or considering that the engine was air cooled, a heater. Not only was heating in the vehicle nearly useless, but the cold would come through the front sheet metal of the car and freeze the front passengers’ feet. Eventually, my parents traded it for a Ford Maverick. It wasn’t much of a car, but it had heat. Sounds like it is a bit better than that, at least.
I can't really comment since I live in Texas. However it was 29F the other day but my polestar heated in minutes. I assume that's difference on having a heatpump. I also charge during the night so many it's preheating. Only have had it a bit over a month. I was interested in the Mach E but settled on the P2 performance.
@@upnorthmike6085 nope, sat outside all day. I drive it to work and it sits outside all day and it’s been hovering around zero most of this week. The cold certainly takes a toll on the range but no problems with staying warm. You’re a little colder there but I can’t imagine that little bit dropping my inside temp by 40°
@@upnorthmike6085 have you talked to the dealer? I’d definitely be saying something if that’s all the warmer it would get. And my wife would be livid trying to put her freezing hands on my back…lol
In my opinion your recommendation is based on a unrealistic test. I've been driving cars in Minnesota since 1968 so I have many years of experience driving in cold weather (my Dad grew up in Eveleth, so I've experienced -35 F weather). If you did the same test in your pickup truck it would also take longer to heat, because the vehicle is pulling in outside air at -17 F and moving the air over the heater core (and especially more challenging with the fan speed at a maximum). In a "real world" situation I would turn ON the recirculate air feature, as you did near the end of the video, and (of course) the inside air temperature then began to heat up much faster. I understand the windows would eventually fog up in the recirculate air mode, but until that happened I'll use that feature after I get my Mach E. It would be interesting if you repeated the experiment and NOT use MAX DEFROST (which also disables the recirculate air mode feature) and left a reasonable temperature (~ 72 F) in AUTO temperature mode. From the owner's manual it isn't clear to me if the HVAC would automatically have recirculate air ON or OFF (or cycle between those two modes).
My truck or the Highlander would have got the cabin warmer much faster, no question. With an ICE, especially after the drive and the engine was at, or near operating temperature, we would have had much warmer air once I pulled over. I didn't use the max defrost, that is a button you press which puts the fain on max and only allows the defroster to blow air. As for the temp, my goal was to try and get the warmest heat possible as soon as possible. In theory, even at 72 F, it still should have been working as hard as it could to generate as much heat as it could, until it reached that set point. However, I do plan on doing more testing, with in put from the comments, so keep them coming!
Mine is doing just fine in -20 I'm parked literally on the lake at work 16hrs a day and she is doing great. Auto temp set to 72 and get in it and take coat off
I live in Southern California so I will never see temps in -F, but this does show me that I need to stick with my Ford Explorer for ski trips. What was your fan speed set at. And I wonder if auto is the best compromise setting for both heat and defrost.
Fan speed was at 6 out of 7. I'm not sure I understand the second part of your question? During my normal commute, coming out of a heated garage, I just leave the fan setting on auto, set to 75 (it never gets that warm of course) and keep the defrost and floor heat mixed.
@@upnorthmike6085 the second part of my question was whether the auto setting just controls fan speed or also controls air distribution between defrost, floor and cabin vents.
Good job on this video. It shows that Ford has some work in front of them. This also confirms that if you have a level 2 charger at home and precondition you are good to go. The workplaces will need to add charging in cold environments like this. Ski destinations and other cold weather spots will need more chargers. 30 years ago we used to bundle up the kids for short car rides, the ICE vehicles didn’t used to warm up as fast as now. EVs will get better and better. I ordered my Mach e in September and can’t wait to get it
Great comment John. You are correct about not only the workplace, but also destination locations that are subject to extreme cold temperatures. I've got a video in the works for as close to the same cold temp, still parked outside, but this time plugged in overnight and preconditioned 15 minutes prior to driving. Then, I think we can see a better comparison and see if the heater can keep up then.
Very interesting Mike, and I appreciate you taking the time to 'cold test' your Mach-E. I live in Arizona...so warm, right? We're at 5500' and today the high is 28 with ice covering the driveway as a front went thru yesterday. So not like MN but still cold. So consider a trip to the mall - movie plus a meal at the restaurant, let's say 4-5 hours total - and it's reasonable to assume we'll climb into a cold soaked car. Your test raises a valid question in my mind about how much comfort we'll experience driving home and I'd surely better have a nearly full battery before leaving for such an outing.
You can warm up an ev the same as an ice vehicle in colder weather. In my experience it is a nice warm cabin to get into. Also unless the mall is more than 100 miles from your house I would say you would be more than fine.
@@julesinthecity8900 Jules, Mike's tests (also see his intro video to this series) suggests one can't expect a lot of heat initially, or perhaps at all. OK for those in the heated front seats, but good of Mike to point the back seat riders may struggle to be comfortable. I used to fly a 4-seater with this same kind of 'front heat/back cold' cold weather heat distribution and no one liked being put in the back. For those of us living in seasonal climates, this seems a worthy issue to consider.
@@jacktyler7599 This hasn't been my experience with the MachE in both warm and very cold temps. Preconditioning keeps the cabin cool or warm for all in the car. If you start from cold, yes it will be cold but that is true of any car.
Keep in mind, the purpose of this test was for those that can't plug in and don't have a heated garage. My wife's Highlander or my old truck, especially after 20 minutes would have been plenty warm, even in these conditions. As I stated, coming out of a heated garage, the heater can then keep up ok. I do plan to test this more throughout the winter and will report back
You can use the setting for Start the car with the Ford Pass App.. See operations manual on page 124.“ the car try to heat the cabin to 22 grad Celsius" or you can choose use the last temperature. Also you can Set the time how long the car should heat up (5 or 10 or? minutes). You can start and heat up twice until next Start inside the car. So if you start the car with the App (without plugged in) 20 minutes before sitting in the car your MME will be warm and the whole family will be happy to sit inside. I live in Germany (near Ulm) (sorry about my english) and it is not so cold here...but I Enjoy this Feature in my Star White
I live north of Mpls MN. On a Dr trip 50 mi away, I have to wait 2 hrs for my wife. Do you have any advice about how to have is warm (65 f) when she gets back in?
Hey Mike, new video coming out today. Are you able to plug in while waiting? If so, do that. If not, be sure to use the remote start and start the vehicle at least 15 minutes prior to getting in. Be sure to turn on the passenger seat heater ahead of time so that will kick on when you start it up.
Thanks Mike. I have a insulated garage and keep it a 50 f. While waiting for my wife I go to a near library and read. There are no plug in available. What do you think of leaving the car on and locked with the heater on. I can do that now with my truck. I use the remote start so even if a thief broke in they could not drive the truck. I guess the mustang would have a similar feature. Just no sure what would happen to the battery with 50 miles to drive home.
@@mikemurphy2040 I think it would really depend on the outside temp. If it is very cold, say well below zero, that could work, but keep in mind, your range is really going to suffer. With a 50 mile drive, I'd like to see at least 80 miles of range left on the car when you pick your wife up. Assuming you are at the library with a near full charge, that should work. If the temp is say above zero, I would leave the vehicle off at the library since the vehicle was already warm on your trip there. Then, try to estimate when she may be done and use the remote start to start the vehicle and let it run 15-25 minutes and you should be perfect!
Does clicking the air recycle button do anything? Like so you're warming the air in the car, not the air from outside? Also Minnesotan here. This winter was too darn long.
Recirculate does help, but then you run into window fogging like any vehicle does. If you get to some newer videos, there may be a fix in the way of a software update from the dealer
@@upnorthmike6085 hmmm yeah i suppose the humidity would rise. Was asking myself just now "why does it take so much energy" then i remember that yeah it is just technically waste energy from entropy. Hopefully they figure something out, the lightning sounds dope but if it doesn't warm up its kinda useless here.
Good info, And I have been wondering this. I drove 20 miles in 15 below Saturday, In an F150 maybe 10 miles to warmup but it did and I left in a 40 degree garage I think you should sell it cheap. I'll give you my number. LOL . I remember when a car outside at 15 below overnight was a non-mover. Good video.
Need to preheat at this temp! My Audi e-Tron has no problem heating at cold temp. It comes with 2 x 5 kw heaters. I have only 1x5 kw. And still it is okey.
Our kia hybrid is the best starting car that I've ever owned . I only plugged in the block heater twice in two and a half years . It has a much smaller battery being a hybrid but that's what starts the vehicle. Oh yeah pretty much all of the 500 taxis in Winnipe are Toyota Prius cars .
You know that you live in a cold climate. Is it possible to leave the car plugged in to the grid, with the heater running in a lower output setting all night long? That way, when you get in, it will not have to bring the temp up from the bottom of the well, so to speak.
It is, and I'll cover that this week. I'm trying to get through the big 3 possible scenarios that folks may face: Parked outside with no access to plug in, parked outside with access to plug in, parked in a heated garage with access to both. Stay tuned!
I don't get why range in car cannot get to desired temp. My model 3 in Chicago, sometimes just as cold gets warm pretty fast, and very comfortable, you should contact dealer.
You should use the auto setting on Hi and use all three vents. You had the fan down low and only defrost. That wasn’t a fair test. Of course it’s not going to warm up. If I did that with a gas car the results would also be bad with zero heat until the engine warmed up. I start my Mach-E when hiking while I’m still a mile away, so it can be warm when I get there. I understand running through scenarios but you are going to hit start and preheat every time unless you don’t have enough battery to get to a charger.
I would argue 3 vents is further taxing the system and spreading the "heat" out over 3 separate areas. If we cut it down to just one vent, in theory that vent would heat up the quickest and we should have seen warm air sooner. I would also say that while the majority of the time some folks would use the pre-condition feature, what if there was an emergency or you simply didn't plan ahead and just had to hop in the vehicle and go. What then? I think these results would be the same.
Seems pretty stupid that you are sitting on a huge battery capable of delivering a lot of heat and the car just won't use it. I live right on the Canadian border probably farther North of you and would not care about range but would want the car to heat.......right now!!! How in the world would you be able to clear the windshield of ice in the morning or when it was accumulating while driving.
The Mach E can be scheduled to preheat while it’s plugged in at home. You can set the preheating profile in the car or on the FordPass app. Not a perfect solution, but it would certainly help with preheating the batteries and having a better experience with the car and having it ready to go in the winter months. Having grown up on the Canadian border, I can tell you that most people leave their ICE vehicles run when they go in stores and for the first start of the morning when it’s well below zero. This isn’t much different with the Mach E.
We will cover the preconditioning in a couple days when the temp drops again. This time, we will park outside overnight but leave the Mach-E plugged in and preconditioned for 15 minutes prior to driving. That should give us a fairly decent comparison, while still trying to re-create possible driving situations that some folks may face.
Great question Bryan. At the "HI" setting, the fan turns on full blast and you lose the ability to adjust it. 85 setting is one less than HI, but still allows manual fan control.
I have a Chevy Silverado Ev lined up. I’m really hoping with the heat pump it will perform better then The fords do. The range is kinda shocking. I hear most ford evs drop 40% range in the colder weather. And not even in extreme cold. I’m talking like 0 degrees Celsius. Where I’m from winter is normally between -18 to -28 Celsius. I need a vehicle that can handle that.
Any EV will struggle with the cold, especially with range. I think the debate of PTC heaters vs heat pumps will continue, just as the debate over turbos vs superchargers. They both have pros and cons for sure. I hope your silverado EV is awesome!
How would you compare this experience to an average 4 cylinder vehicle in the same conditions? If your Silverado is a V8, that’s certainly going to warm up faster than even a 6-cylinder vehicle (likely your Highlander). -17°F is cold. I know you’re more accustomed to it than those of us a little further south where those temps are temporary slides into unreasonableness, but starting and driving a short distance in any vehicle in those temps is going to be a chilly experience. Our Focus takes quite a while to be blowing warm air in our single digit temps, so the heated seats and steering wheel definitely come in handy! The Explorer (V6) heats up more quickly, of course, but the heated seats and steering wheel get used there as well. That’s not to diminish the value of your test, though. For those with similar situations, it is good info to know. I’m looking forward to your test of plugging in while outside, as I would expect that to be the solution for those in frigid environments without a garage to help mitigate the cold temps.
Scott, two more videos on the channel already where the vehicle comes from a heated garage, then a different test plugged in and pre-conditioned. I had an older 4 cyl Celica along with the other vehicles mentioned and although it's true they warm up at different speeds, the Mach-E is by far the slowest/worst. I have one more video coming out later this week, -19F and not plugged in, but we do a 5 minute remote start warmup prior to driving. Stay tuned
@@upnorthmike6085 Thanks, keep up the good work! It would be interesting to see if others are experiencing the same thing or if it's something wrong with your vehicle that could be fixed.
Well not that I can afford this car but clearly its NFG for us in Winnipeg . It's 11.58 am on Friday Jan 07 2022 . My outdoor thermometer show -25.8 c , -15 below f . We have 19 Kia Niro and it has excellent heat as well as excellent cooling and pretty much everything else . It goes 0-60 in ten seconds instead of under four but whatever . Thanks for making an important video . The regular car testers don't live up here . A funny thing is Ford used to test cars in Thompson Manitoba several hours north of Winnipeg . It's currently -32.6 c there . Somehow I don't think that this poorly named crossover was ever tested in Thompson Mb .
I own a mach e and yes range is poor with climate use if you don't precondition the car.the range is a whole lot better with precondition.i think after the car is warmed up and you have been driving and the batteries and electric motor creat heat and that's where the car gets its heat from and the electric heater turns off
Have used mache e in significantly colder weather than you without problems, I note in your clip that you do not have a fan on so redo the test with the fan on. Otherwise you should probably hand in the car at your car dealer.
If you leave recirc off it is actually pulling very cold air into the hvac box and make it worse. Go outside the car and see it for yourself. Check the inlets beneath the windshield. You will feel the vacuum pulling freezing air into the car! Lolz Use recirculation all the time, either hot or cold, it will be faster and easier for the hvac system to control the temp.
That's true, but as I stated in the video, the windows fog up in a matter of minutes. I suppose I could go back and cycle between the recirculation and regular defrost, but still, in my opinion, 36 minutes and we didn't even get to above freezing is unacceptable.
Great point, I would hope a business would start the vehicle in a heated garage (video on that coming out today) but if that's not the case, as outlined here, we might be in trouble for an hour or more until the batteries and cabin can start to warm up
It's sad that the heater is not keeping up with the Minnesota weather. Something should be done by Ford to make the system better for Northern Winter Temperatures.
It's frustrating that's for sure. I have two more videos coming looking at preconditioning as well as parking in a heated garage, just so we can get the full picture
No, it uses a PTC electric heater. I think a heat pump wouldn't perform any better in that cold though, to be fair. In a mild climate - a heat pump would outperform this heater IMO.
Let's be real here. If you live somewhere that gets to these temperatures there are 110 outlets everywhere. Every house and apartment complex, and pretty much every workplace has powered plugs at every stall. This was in no way a realistic situation. Not using the preheat feature makes no sense. He wasn't giving the "benefit of the doubt". This was intentionally creating the worst, and most unlikely edge case and fully intending to have a bad result. Why he is at all frustrated and surprised by the result is a mystery when that's clearly what he wanted.
Let's be real here indeed, what about a very large portion of population that lives in an area with no off street parking, and instead they park on the edge of a road in a neighborhood? They aren't allowed to run extension cords over public sidewalks. Perhaps they have a charging location at work, but that doesn't solve the problem while at home, so this is in fact a very realistic situation. I'm sure your next argument is, well why would someone in this situation get an EV then? That's a valid argument, but people need to be aware of the reality in this event. If you were to watch some more recent videos, there was a TSB update to the heater which does help, but it's still not ideal in an environment where you can't plug in and pre-condition.
Can we go back a step .. if you are charging the vehicle you can’t start the car .. what EXACTLY is “ pre-conditioning “ ??? What are the steps ? Is the first step unplugging and then turning on car and heater ??
Hi Lucia, there are lots to go over here. The best practice for this vehicle is to use the app and set a departure schedule. If that's not an option, use the PAAK and start it ahead of your departure 10-15 minutes.
If you had driven while you were talking, the batteries would have been hot and the indoor temperature would have risen much faster..Mach E owner in cold Sweden. 👍👍👍
If you still have your Mach E, there is a software update for the HVAC foe heater concerns 😟. Might help next winter 😀. TSB 22-2182. Just released 5.5.22
This is why I don't buy electric cars yet because alot of people I know it sucks when it's extreme cold, combustion engine heats up so hot you can roast eggs during the winter.
It does point out just how far away we are from being able to have everybody on EV's. I keep mine plugged in during cold weather like it's my religion, even at work, but I'm able to, and not everyone has that luxury.
An EV, any EV, will never be as good in those types of temperature extremes as an ICE vehicle that has 1000's of explosions per minute. All the waste heat from those explosions can be used to heat the water for the heater in the winter, but it's just a bother in the summer. You can tell from your screen that the battery is cold soaked. Half of your e heat is trying to get your batteries warm enough to function, It's true that 5K is not enough to do it very quickly, but then again most people are not dealing with anywhere near those types of low temps. If you drove 30 miles at highway speeds, the battery would be warmed up enough to divert more heat to the cabin. Also, a color soaked battery pack won't charge quickly as well. If your battery was in your garage all night then it doesn't need to heat up the battery. Also the farther you drive the smaller the percentage of the battery usage will go to both kinds of heat. So, I totally agree for you an EV, any EV probably shouldn't be your only car.
Well said Dan. Although I can't find any data on it, I wonder if, while plugged in outside, some of the current is going through the heater to keep the batteries at least somewhat warmer than they otherwise would be. I know during preconditioning this happens, but I wonder what the case would be if they sitting at idle while charging.
@@upnorthmike6085 Plugging it in will keep the battery management system working and will keep the batteries at a miniumum temp, but you can't always do that. Also preheating your car while plugged in will help the most. It doesn't us the EV battery to do it. Still, I think you should contact Ford, not the dealer and see if they agree that your car is preforming normally.
@@upnorthmike6085 sorry I should have said I have a Tesla, but we've been down into the single digits recently. No problem. I do think my heater is between 7 and 8 KW though so I have a little more ump. But Even with only 5 KW you should be getting hot air!
Correct, and that's the battle. In VERY cold sub zero temps, the PTC heater will outperform a heat pump. This is also why heat pumps can't be used to heat your house when its sub zero. This makes me wonder of having some type of hybrid PTC & heat pump. Maybe the PTC to kick things off with instant heat and then a heat pump located under the dash or somewhere other than the "engine" compartment could kick in...
@@upnorthmike6085 my lightning heats a lot better, so they must have upped the kw's in the heater. I'm in many debates with folks with manbuns why heat pumps are no good for -20+ up here in Manitoba.
I have a mach e. Ev are not made for Canadian weather. Kills my battery. Losing around 40 percent of my range. Ford said to turn off the cabin heat. Haha yes sure. I'm going to turn it off and freeze my Ass. If you guys are looking for an ev and live up north. Think twice. Ill probably get rid of it in the spring
It was on, although the button does toggle. The system goes through a cycle at times, other users report this as well. The heat is on, at times though, on auto, it switches your settings to de-fog the windows briefly. I did have it on 85F and I didn't see an improvement. Stay tuned for a future video to address this!
As commented earlier, it was on, I did ensure this, it cycles during the auto option. Even when I press it, just like when I use defrost and feet for the blower, they turn off from time to time even though they are still ON. I don't know why this is.
Gas engines for the all weather performance & reliability win....Again. just watched half a dozen videos of people all over various parts of the country needing to recharge at public charging stations & it was staggering how many charging stations simply wouldn't turn on. several brand chargers on different networks... Imagine needing to recharge, you're running low or barely made it there... then the station refuses to turn on because it's cold..... Meanwhile... Gas vehicles refuel in minutes almost anywhere & develop plenty of heat in minutes. Gas wins again.
Sure, EV's aren't for everyone and they are especially challenging in extreme climates. They excel in the performance areas, but certainly currently are lacking in HVAC and as you stated, public charging locations and reliability.
I've been considering a Mach e here in Canada, but im the winter time not letting the cabin preheat is just asking for trouble even in a gas-powered car. Where i live -40c isnt unheard-of.
I know your video is about an outside not plugged in cold start, but I wanted to share my experience today with my MachE. -38 today with -50 wind here in SK. My MachE is in a garage (not heated) over night plugged in and I preconditioned before heading out this morning...also we have had a recent dump of snow about 15 cm and drifts. Plowing here is minimal and my MachE was great. It was warm when I got in and it keep me warm on my drive to work about 30km. I have snow tires and it handles the snow well. I plug in at work but the car is outside. I preconditioned before coming home and again it was warm and kept me warm coming home. All plugged in ready to go again tomorrow with same temps expected. I really love my MachE and have had a great experience with it. There are things I need to do different than with my previous cars but I am very happy I decided to get this electric pony! Road tripping it to Ontario this summer!!
Jules, thanks for sharing with us! I have a video coming in two days on this exact scenario, outside BUT plugged in with a 15 minute preconditioning. I'm doing the same route too so hopefully we can get an accurate comparison between the three most likely scenarios people may face.
Hey Jules! That’s awesome to hear a fellow Sask driver is able to do this in our extreme colds. I just purchased the Mache E Supreme 2023 and have a 60km commute each day. Hope you’re still enjoying the car!
@@ConnorKleisinger-or1xh Hey!! Yes I am still loving my MachE! You will for sure see a drop in range in the very cold weather but so long as you don't have a really long commute it is fine. I charge at home, rarely at the dc chargers except for road trips. Enjoy the car!!!
Hello , i also have a mustang mach e rwd 2021 that i got last june . I am in Canada up north in Ottawa . I am experiencing same issue has you , its very cold here
this past week was -28 celsius over night , its start great seat warmer perfect, steering wheel hot but the cabin cannot keep up with cold , e heat not good.
I share you frustration .We drove back from Montreal 2 weekend ago it was -22 outside drove for 2 hours and cabin heat could not keep up , my wife feets where frozen, lets say this was not a great ride back home
I love my mustang but heating system in very cold not good
Thanks Marc
we where driving back from Montreal at -20 celsius for 2 hours and my wife feets where frozen ,it was not a great ride home
Thanks Marc
Good video, I think you hit the nail on the head ... you need to plug in and precondition in the cold, ALWAYS. I have a premium MachE. My first winter with it. Having an EV does have a learning curve. I live in Saskatchewan and we have been in extreme cold for almost 2 weeks. Mid -30s C temps with almost -50 with wind. Not plugged in and outside the battery would be a block of ice, as are most cars in this kind of cold. So many vehicles won't even start in these temps. I have a garage (not heated but insulated) I always precondition before driving and I have found that the MachE is fine, I haven't been cold while driving. I set my departure times and I find the car is nice and warm when I get in. Far quicker to warm the cabin than my Grand Cherokee or GMC Sierra in these conditions (which I owned previous.) I would need to run them for quite a while to warm them up (more than 20 mins.). Anyhow...just my experience. I am enjoying your videos.
Great info Jules, thanks for your reply. I agree, preconditioning is key, especially when plugged in to grid power and the vehicle is cold. I'm also convinced the cold batteries keep the floor cold (more on this theory in the future)
@@upnorthmike6085 Interesting theory...I haven't noticed but then again I am wearing boots and haven't really thought about it. It is nice to watch the videos of someone who has similar environmental conditions to myself.
Thanks for the info bud, just wondering what your range is like in SK. I live in rural Manitoba and I would like to get an EV for a daily driver. There just isn't much info out there for the intense cold the prairies can see, so any from you would be awesome!
@@trentlewis1473 keep watching some of my other videos for more info on range. To be extremely vague it varies so widely but you could anticipate about 180 miles of range with the bigger battery
What’s your range like in -30 with the crazy wind? Am from AB so just curious
Nice to see these extreme weather tests, I’m curious as to why you only had the defrost and foot vent on but not the upper vent to push warmer air to the front and back seats. In my experience with my Mach-e, I need to have the upper vents on as well to really warm up the cabin. I would be interested in another test that uses all the vents if you get similar cold weather
Part of the reason was to limit the number of vents getting air, while hopefully concentrating any warm air the car could produce, which really wasn't much at all in this case. Later this week I'll have one more video on cold weather, this time when the car is plugged in and preconditioned.
Surprised Ford went with a 5kW resistive for both the battery and cabin. We didn't have a heating issue with the Gen 2 Volt Minnesota, but the Volt came equipped with an 8kW cabin + 2 kW battery heater (for a much smaller battery). 10kW total.
No kidding!? I just did an update video with a TSB on the heat issue. In my opinion, it must be about range. Smaller heater, more range. What a mistake!
I believe the issue is that the e-heater can only heat the battery or the cabin not both at the same time, it’s a design flaw of the Mach-e, same with the car cold at a dc fast charger to get faster charging e-heat need to be off so that it can be used to warm the battery
Interesting David. I wish there was a way for the user to see where the e-heat is being directed, such as 100% to battery or a split somewhere in the middle. I agree that is may be a design flaw, or as I stated, give the control back to the user and let me take the hit in range to stay warm. I can see future cars having a dedicated PTC heater so cabin temp is not affected so much.
14:59 really tells the story. If you let your battery pack turn into an ice block, a significant part of your heating capacity for the first hour+ of operation is going to be used on warming up the battery pack. Notice ambient temperature, that is energy spent heating the battery pack. It's almost as much as climate use. As many others have mentioned, preconditioning the vehicle will get around this. You can even do so when unplugged, it's just going to draw from your charge level instead of utility power. Bottom line, you have given the worst possible conditions and the vehicle still operated at least marginally. I don't think that Ford "let us down" by any stretch.
I respectfully disagree on the "let us down" part. More recent videos cover preconditioning in depth, and yes, it's MUCH better. The HVAC system TSB update helped a little more as well. However, when compared to a Tesla with a heat pump, those vehicles have little issue heating in these conditions. Even with preconditioning AND coming from a heated garage, in the temps specified in the video, the vehicle will lose capacity enough that again, it's not keeping up. I'm hearing from some 2023+ owners this isn't the case, but 2021-22 model years seem to struggle.
@@upnorthmike6085 I did see your later videos after I left this comment. Thanks for your response. I live in central WI so we do usually get down to those -20 temps at least a couple times every winter. We'll see how my '21 Mach E does this year and comment back here.
@@pseudocoder78 If you have the '21, please make sure your dealer installed the HVAC cold weather update. It's not available OTA, so you have to bring it in. I went on a 5 hour road trip. Car started in a 67 F degree garage for over 18 hours. Outside temp was 3F. In about 2 hours, we all had sweatshirts on and at 3 hours the kids were pissed. For what we pay for these vehicles and the alleged "testing" Ford did, you've got to be kidding me. They can do better.
I want to thank you for this. I just took delivery of my Mach-E a week ago in Whitehorse, Yukon and while I'm aware that my winter experience is going to be radically different than it is now, the temperature you ran this demo in represents unusually cold weather even here (I.e. yes, it can get colder, but -27C is colder than the median here), it's good to have some foreknowledge before I see days this cold.
Hi Brett, new video coming very soon regarding a TSB on this very issue!: TSB 22-2182
Mike, Have you tried reducing the fan speed to 3-5 rather than high. I think the HI speed is too high and overcomes the heater core capacity. I had a -2F morning here and had oodles of heat. But I limit my fan no higher than 4.
Yes, I did this in several future videos. In my experience in this extreme cold, the heat stays warmer at a lower fan setting, but it still could not keep up. With your -2F, were you plugged in and preconditioned?
@@upnorthmike6085 I’m the AM yes but on my way home 9 hours later I was not, still had plenty of heat, I would reach out to Ford Service, if it cannot be repaired, it’s a lemon Law issue for inadequate heat. Some have had defective PTC heaters that have been resolved by the dealer, I have ample heat on 70F and fan speed 2-3 down to -2f.
Thank you for sharing this information. My suggestion should you decide to try it is ...as soon as the windshield is under control switch to... floor heat/ dash, don't share it with the windshield ( you may have to switch back and forth @ times to de frost/fog) also treat the automatic temperature control as lo medium and high, so switch to "full" heat and recirc instead of 85 degrees. Please see if this gives more comfort quicker. Note: some Tesla owners report being very cold with the Tesla heat pump in severe weather also.
The only reason I didn't turn it to max heat is that is also runs the fan full blast then, at the 85 setting you still have fan speed control. Good point though on the air hitting the cold glass which in theory would be cooling it down quicker than air exiting through the lower and mid vents. I would also think a heat pump would be far less efficient than a PTC heater in extreme cold. If I had a Tesla, that would be in interesting comparison.
@@upnorthmike6085 The fan speed control can be turned to manual mode with the system on Hi mode.
I’m hoping I can drop the Silverado rst I ouch to get it in my garage. It’s a standard height and width garage. So it’s going to be tight. But if it drops 2” should be ok. I hope. Because I can’t imagine leaving it outside for that kind of weather. My gmc Sierra gas does it. But the electric can’t
I have an ID.4, live near Québec City Canada and my car sleeps outside. With very low temperatures, this VW warms up faster than an ICE car because heat does not wait after an engine warmup. But I do open every outlet: defroster, front and feet. When as cold as that, you won't count on the heat pump, it will be insufficient, heat comes from resistive elements. I see that heat can take as much as 10KW, hopefully lowering after a while. Wondering if you can see how many KW are used for heat by the Mach-E in similar conditions.
That Mach-E has a 5kw PTC heater, no heat pump and no option to put more kw in heating, which as I'm learning now, seems to be quite a limitation for cold weather.
Lol. Are you sure it says Heat and not anti freeze? #1 priority in cold weather is does it keep your windshield and side window clear?
I feel like that car may have a problem. I can set my MME GT on automatic climate and 68 and it'll be warmed up in a few mins. This is only at 0° Celsius. I do use the departure times when possible and the car is extremely warm waiting on you.
It's possible the departure time use is key. I hope to be able to test this soon to confirm, as what I'm learning is that using the "remote start" feature may not be good enough on the bitterly cold days. Stay tuned
Weird… I mean I’m not in -17 degrees.. today it was 14 degrees Fahrenheit i pre started my Mach-E California route 1 for about 10 mins when I got it in.. it was like a Sauna in there. I turned my temp to 68 degrees and left it on Auto all day. Left the house with a 265 guess-o meter at 100% drove 112 miles came home at 59% with 162 miles left of guess o meter. Maybe something might be malfunctioning?
I have found that even 15 degrees colder makes a huge difference in cabin comfort. The difference from 0 to -15F is noticeable for sure. One more video coming out tomorrow to round out the series of options for cabin comfort, stay tuned
The last time I was in the Midwest, my rental car's fuel line froze and it was -10 degrees out. Subjecting an electric car to -17 and it still working is nothing short of an engineering miracle!
My buddies antifreeze, yes his ANTIFREEZE, froze when it was identical temps to the video I posted. I think his mix was a bit off. Ha!
I have the same car and am interested in seeing what the quickest way to heat the cabin is without being plugged in. Is it the manual settings like you had or the Auto 3?
Buddy of mine just caravanned with a Model Y whose heat pump would quit working when temps dropped to single digits. Cabin temps dropped to 32F with the kids in the backseat. Mach-E has a 5kW PTC heater which should overcome the cold air.
I would also think a heat pump would be far less efficient than a PTC heater in extreme cold. If I had a Tesla, that would be in interesting comparison
Ca you ask dealer if Ford Thinking about add V2L feature to model 2023, literally like big power bank for home in case of power failure. I have to admit I looking for electric car but option in my country are limited, very expensive and lack of this and other car yet in 2022. I think most of power gone to pre heat car battery until it reach minimum recommended temperature. Great video, BRGDS from Mexico.
How you liking the Mach E, id love one for a Daily
So considering to buy one here in Quebec (for winter)...would it help having a propane Mr.Buddy heater inside the car heating it before leaving home?
I would not burn any combustion type device inside of any vehicle. The danger for a fire is far too great. Do you have the ability to plug it in and do a pre-conditioning using the departure schedule?
thanks for the info, Are you going to do a video on different driving speeds and how it relates to range?
Hi Ken, first I'll cover the complete cold start as I did in this video, then a warm garage start, then a parked outside/preconditioned start. After that, I'll go more into detail on range in the winter, once I log more miles and hours in the car. That way, we should see more accurate results and a better average of MPGe.
In the mid 70’s, my family moved to Glasgow, MT, a place that routinely was in competition for the coldest place in the US. My parents had a VW bus. I was very young, but I believe that it had a second heater, or considering that the engine was air cooled, a heater. Not only was heating in the vehicle nearly useless, but the cold would come through the front sheet metal of the car and freeze the front passengers’ feet. Eventually, my parents traded it for a Ford Maverick. It wasn’t much of a car, but it had heat. Sounds like it is a bit better than that, at least.
I can't really comment since I live in Texas. However it was 29F the other day but my polestar heated in minutes. I assume that's difference on having a heatpump. I also charge during the night so many it's preheating. Only have had it a bit over a month. I was interested in the Mach E but settled on the P2 performance.
Comparing 29F to -17F…that is a very big difference.
I have a Mach E and this am was 27 degrees, no issues keeping up with the cold. May wanna take yours in for repair.
I don't have any issues at 27 either. Below zero F is when the problems really start
Can I precondition using 110-120v? I've no level 2 at home or work right now. Thanks
Yes you can, it's just not going to be nearly as effective due to the low charging power.
We were -8° this morning and it had no problem getting up to 70° in the car.
Pre-conditioned? Plugged in? Start from a heated garage?
@@upnorthmike6085 nope, sat outside all day. I drive it to work and it sits outside all day and it’s been hovering around zero most of this week. The cold certainly takes a toll on the range but no problems with staying warm. You’re a little colder there but I can’t imagine that little bit dropping my inside temp by 40°
@@wthal7574 Interesting. About 20 degrees colder, so if the numbers stayed the same, I should have no problem getting to 50. Hmmm...
@@upnorthmike6085 have you talked to the dealer? I’d definitely be saying something if that’s all the warmer it would get. And my wife would be livid trying to put her freezing hands on my back…lol
Haha, my wife would do the same. I'm going to try that test one more time and if I don't get any different results, I'll be making a phone call.
In my opinion your recommendation is based on a unrealistic test. I've been driving cars in Minnesota since 1968 so I have many years of experience driving in cold weather (my Dad grew up in Eveleth, so I've experienced -35 F weather). If you did the same test in your pickup truck it would also take longer to heat, because the vehicle is pulling in outside air at -17 F and moving the air over the heater core (and especially more challenging with the fan speed at a maximum). In a "real world" situation I would turn ON the recirculate air feature, as you did near the end of the video, and (of course) the inside air temperature then began to heat up much faster. I understand the windows would eventually fog up in the recirculate air mode, but until that happened I'll use that feature after I get my Mach E. It would be interesting if you repeated the experiment and NOT use MAX DEFROST (which also disables the recirculate air mode feature) and left a reasonable temperature (~ 72 F) in AUTO temperature mode. From the owner's manual it isn't clear to me if the HVAC would automatically have recirculate air ON or OFF (or cycle between those two modes).
My truck or the Highlander would have got the cabin warmer much faster, no question. With an ICE, especially after the drive and the engine was at, or near operating temperature, we would have had much warmer air once I pulled over. I didn't use the max defrost, that is a button you press which puts the fain on max and only allows the defroster to blow air. As for the temp, my goal was to try and get the warmest heat possible as soon as possible. In theory, even at 72 F, it still should have been working as hard as it could to generate as much heat as it could, until it reached that set point. However, I do plan on doing more testing, with in put from the comments, so keep them coming!
Was that 120 miles for the extended range battery at 100% charge?
Extended range battery and was above 90% charge, I don't recall the exact amount however
Mine is doing just fine in -20 I'm parked literally on the lake at work 16hrs a day and she is doing great. Auto temp set to 72 and get in it and take coat off
Are you plugged in? Do you use the departure schedule?
Excellent video. I live in NYC and have a Mach-E GT on order. We don’t get as cold as MN, but this is good to know. 👍🏾
I live in Southern California so I will never see temps in -F, but this does show me that I need to stick with my Ford Explorer for ski trips. What was your fan speed set at. And I wonder if auto is the best compromise setting for both heat and defrost.
Fan speed was at 6 out of 7. I'm not sure I understand the second part of your question? During my normal commute, coming out of a heated garage, I just leave the fan setting on auto, set to 75 (it never gets that warm of course) and keep the defrost and floor heat mixed.
@@upnorthmike6085 the second part of my question was whether the auto setting just controls fan speed or also controls air distribution between defrost, floor and cabin vents.
Good job on this video. It shows that Ford has some work in front of them. This also confirms that if you have a level 2 charger at home and precondition you are good to go. The workplaces will need to add charging in cold environments like this. Ski destinations and other cold weather spots will need more chargers.
30 years ago we used to bundle up the kids for short car rides, the ICE vehicles didn’t used to warm up as fast as now. EVs will get better and better.
I ordered my Mach e in September and can’t wait to get it
Great comment John. You are correct about not only the workplace, but also destination locations that are subject to extreme cold temperatures. I've got a video in the works for as close to the same cold temp, still parked outside, but this time plugged in overnight and preconditioned 15 minutes prior to driving. Then, I think we can see a better comparison and see if the heater can keep up then.
Very interesting Mike, and I appreciate you taking the time to 'cold test' your Mach-E. I live in Arizona...so warm, right? We're at 5500' and today the high is 28 with ice covering the driveway as a front went thru yesterday. So not like MN but still cold. So consider a trip to the mall - movie plus a meal at the restaurant, let's say 4-5 hours total - and it's reasonable to assume we'll climb into a cold soaked car. Your test raises a valid question in my mind about how much comfort we'll experience driving home and I'd surely better have a nearly full battery before leaving for such an outing.
You can warm up an ev the same as an ice vehicle in colder weather. In my experience it is a nice warm cabin to get into. Also unless the mall is more than 100 miles from your house I would say you would be more than fine.
@@julesinthecity8900 Jules, Mike's tests (also see his intro video to this series) suggests one can't expect a lot of heat initially, or perhaps at all. OK for those in the heated front seats, but good of Mike to point the back seat riders may struggle to be comfortable. I used to fly a 4-seater with this same kind of 'front heat/back cold' cold weather heat distribution and no one liked being put in the back. For those of us living in seasonal climates, this seems a worthy issue to consider.
@@jacktyler7599 This hasn't been my experience with the MachE in both warm and very cold temps. Preconditioning keeps the cabin cool or warm for all in the car. If you start from cold, yes it will be cold but that is true of any car.
Keep in mind, the purpose of this test was for those that can't plug in and don't have a heated garage. My wife's Highlander or my old truck, especially after 20 minutes would have been plenty warm, even in these conditions. As I stated, coming out of a heated garage, the heater can then keep up ok. I do plan to test this more throughout the winter and will report back
You can use the setting for Start the car with the Ford Pass App.. See operations manual on page 124.“ the car try to heat the cabin to 22 grad Celsius" or you can choose use the last temperature. Also you can Set the time how long the car should heat up (5 or 10 or? minutes). You can start and heat up twice until next Start inside the car. So if you start the car with the App (without plugged in) 20 minutes before sitting in the car your MME will be warm and the whole family will be happy to sit inside. I live in Germany (near Ulm) (sorry about my english) and it is not so cold here...but I Enjoy this Feature in my Star White
I live north of Mpls MN. On a Dr trip 50 mi away, I have to wait 2 hrs for my wife. Do you have any advice about how to have is warm (65 f) when she gets back in?
Hey Mike, new video coming out today. Are you able to plug in while waiting? If so, do that. If not, be sure to use the remote start and start the vehicle at least 15 minutes prior to getting in. Be sure to turn on the passenger seat heater ahead of time so that will kick on when you start it up.
Thanks Mike. I have a insulated garage and keep it a 50 f. While waiting for my wife I go to a near library and read. There are no plug in available. What do you think of leaving the car on and locked with the heater on. I can do that now with my truck. I use the remote start so even if a thief broke in they could not drive the truck. I guess the mustang would have a similar feature. Just no sure what would happen to the battery with 50 miles to drive home.
@@mikemurphy2040 I think it would really depend on the outside temp. If it is very cold, say well below zero, that could work, but keep in mind, your range is really going to suffer. With a 50 mile drive, I'd like to see at least 80 miles of range left on the car when you pick your wife up. Assuming you are at the library with a near full charge, that should work. If the temp is say above zero, I would leave the vehicle off at the library since the vehicle was already warm on your trip there. Then, try to estimate when she may be done and use the remote start to start the vehicle and let it run 15-25 minutes and you should be perfect!
Does clicking the air recycle button do anything? Like so you're warming the air in the car, not the air from outside?
Also Minnesotan here. This winter was too darn long.
Recirculate does help, but then you run into window fogging like any vehicle does. If you get to some newer videos, there may be a fix in the way of a software update from the dealer
@@upnorthmike6085 hmmm yeah i suppose the humidity would rise. Was asking myself just now "why does it take so much energy" then i remember that yeah it is just technically waste energy from entropy. Hopefully they figure something out, the lightning sounds dope but if it doesn't warm up its kinda useless here.
Good info, And I have been wondering this. I drove 20 miles in 15 below Saturday, In an F150 maybe 10 miles to warmup but it did and I left in a 40 degree garage I think you should sell it cheap. I'll give you my number. LOL . I remember when a car outside at 15 below overnight was a non-mover. Good video.
Lyle, stay tuned, new video coming out today where we take the Mach-E out of a heated garage, slightly colder and compare results!
Need to preheat at this temp! My Audi e-Tron has no problem heating at cold temp. It comes with 2 x 5 kw heaters. I have only 1x5 kw. And still it is okey.
No kidding, the new ones have 10kw total? Wow, I can totally see why and it would sure be nice to have that as an option!
I’m actually impressed that the batteries work at all when they have been sitting in those temperatures!
Our kia hybrid is the best starting car that I've ever owned . I only plugged in the block heater twice in two and a half years . It has a much smaller battery being a hybrid but that's what starts the vehicle. Oh yeah pretty much all of the 500 taxis in Winnipe are Toyota Prius cars .
You know that you live in a cold climate. Is it possible to leave the car plugged in to the grid, with the heater running in a lower output setting all night long? That way, when you get in, it will not have to bring the temp up from the bottom of the well, so to speak.
It is, and I'll cover that this week. I'm trying to get through the big 3 possible scenarios that folks may face: Parked outside with no access to plug in, parked outside with access to plug in, parked in a heated garage with access to both. Stay tuned!
I don't get why range in car cannot get to desired temp. My model 3 in Chicago, sometimes just as cold gets warm pretty fast, and very comfortable, you should contact dealer.
I hope to dive into this further, we will compare and contrast in future videos but I hope we can all find and answer here
You should use the auto setting on Hi and use all three vents. You had the fan down low and only defrost. That wasn’t a fair test. Of course it’s not going to warm up. If I did that with a gas car the results would also be bad with zero heat until the engine warmed up.
I start my Mach-E when hiking while I’m still a mile away, so it can be warm when I get there.
I understand running through scenarios but you are going to hit start and preheat every time unless you don’t have enough battery to get to a charger.
I would argue 3 vents is further taxing the system and spreading the "heat" out over 3 separate areas. If we cut it down to just one vent, in theory that vent would heat up the quickest and we should have seen warm air sooner. I would also say that while the majority of the time some folks would use the pre-condition feature, what if there was an emergency or you simply didn't plan ahead and just had to hop in the vehicle and go. What then? I think these results would be the same.
Seems pretty stupid that you are sitting on a huge battery capable of delivering a lot of heat and the car just won't use it. I live right on the Canadian border probably farther North of you and would not care about range but would want the car to heat.......right now!!! How in the world would you be able to clear the windshield of ice in the morning or when it was accumulating while driving.
Im interested on your range with heating on
I have another video with range results while heating. This video was to focus on a cold vehicle with no pre-heating at all
@@upnorthmike6085 gotcha, id love to have one with my Boss and Foxbody
The Mach E can be scheduled to preheat while it’s plugged in at home. You can set the preheating profile in the car or on the FordPass app. Not a perfect solution, but it would certainly help with preheating the batteries and having a better experience with the car and having it ready to go in the winter months. Having grown up on the Canadian border, I can tell you that most people leave their ICE vehicles run when they go in stores and for the first start of the morning when it’s well below zero. This isn’t much different with the Mach E.
We will cover the preconditioning in a couple days when the temp drops again. This time, we will park outside overnight but leave the Mach-E plugged in and preconditioned for 15 minutes prior to driving. That should give us a fairly decent comparison, while still trying to re-create possible driving situations that some folks may face.
Just curious why are you setting the temp to 85? Why not turn it up to HI?
Great question Bryan. At the "HI" setting, the fan turns on full blast and you lose the ability to adjust it. 85 setting is one less than HI, but still allows manual fan control.
I have a Chevy Silverado Ev lined up. I’m really hoping with the heat pump it will perform better then The fords do. The range is kinda shocking. I hear most ford evs drop 40% range in the colder weather. And not even in extreme cold. I’m talking like 0 degrees Celsius. Where I’m from winter is normally between -18 to -28 Celsius. I need a vehicle that can handle that.
Any EV will struggle with the cold, especially with range. I think the debate of PTC heaters vs heat pumps will continue, just as the debate over turbos vs superchargers. They both have pros and cons for sure. I hope your silverado EV is awesome!
How would you compare this experience to an average 4 cylinder vehicle in the same conditions? If your Silverado is a V8, that’s certainly going to warm up faster than even a 6-cylinder vehicle (likely your Highlander). -17°F is cold. I know you’re more accustomed to it than those of us a little further south where those temps are temporary slides into unreasonableness, but starting and driving a short distance in any vehicle in those temps is going to be a chilly experience. Our Focus takes quite a while to be blowing warm air in our single digit temps, so the heated seats and steering wheel definitely come in handy! The Explorer (V6) heats up more quickly, of course, but the heated seats and steering wheel get used there as well.
That’s not to diminish the value of your test, though. For those with similar situations, it is good info to know. I’m looking forward to your test of plugging in while outside, as I would expect that to be the solution for those in frigid environments without a garage to help mitigate the cold temps.
Scott, two more videos on the channel already where the vehicle comes from a heated garage, then a different test plugged in and pre-conditioned.
I had an older 4 cyl Celica along with the other vehicles mentioned and although it's true they warm up at different speeds, the Mach-E is by far the slowest/worst. I have one more video coming out later this week, -19F and not plugged in, but we do a 5 minute remote start warmup prior to driving. Stay tuned
@@upnorthmike6085 Thanks, keep up the good work! It would be interesting to see if others are experiencing the same thing or if it's something wrong with your vehicle that could be fixed.
Well not that I can afford this car but clearly its NFG for us in Winnipeg . It's 11.58 am on Friday Jan 07 2022 . My outdoor thermometer show -25.8 c , -15 below f . We have 19 Kia Niro and it has excellent heat as well as excellent cooling and pretty much everything else . It goes 0-60 in ten seconds instead of under four but whatever . Thanks for making an important video . The regular car testers don't live up here . A funny thing is Ford used to test cars in Thompson Manitoba several hours north of Winnipeg . It's currently -32.6 c there . Somehow I don't think that this poorly named crossover was ever tested in Thompson Mb .
I own a mach e and yes range is poor with climate use if you don't precondition the car.the range is a whole lot better with precondition.i think after the car is warmed up and you have been driving and the batteries and electric motor creat heat and that's where the car gets its heat from and the electric heater turns off
Fun Fact- at -40 degrees Fahrenheit and Celsius are the same
thats totally unacceptable!!! I have 2017 chevy Bolt Ev and it only takes about 5min to get it to toasty hot......
What kind of winter temps do you get?
Have used mache e in significantly colder weather than you without problems, I note in your clip that you do not have a fan on so redo the test with the fan on. Otherwise you should probably hand in the car at your car dealer.
The fan is set to speed 6 out of 7
If you leave recirc off it is actually pulling very cold air into the hvac box and make it worse. Go outside the car and see it for yourself. Check the inlets beneath the windshield. You will feel the vacuum pulling freezing air into the car! Lolz
Use recirculation all the time, either hot or cold, it will be faster and easier for the hvac system to control the temp.
That's true, but as I stated in the video, the windows fog up in a matter of minutes. I suppose I could go back and cycle between the recirculation and regular defrost, but still, in my opinion, 36 minutes and we didn't even get to above freezing is unacceptable.
Your E Heat was off. When its off, all heat comes from excessive heat generated from the battery. Turn on E heat and it powers the heaters.
It was on, I understand it was off here, but it was on. Just like the recirculation button toggling on/off. The Eheat now stays one however
why don't you set the heating to automatic? so it has no meaning!
The heat was purposely set on high heat and fan setting 6 out of 7 to attempt to get the most heat possible out of the system.
That’s scary some people use there cars to keep them warm out in the field of profession they are in not good u can’t get the heat to work
Great point, I would hope a business would start the vehicle in a heated garage (video on that coming out today) but if that's not the case, as outlined here, we might be in trouble for an hour or more until the batteries and cabin can start to warm up
Only thing I can say is they have a pre conditioner in the car for a reason
It's sad that the heater is not keeping up with the Minnesota weather. Something should be done by Ford to make the system better for Northern Winter Temperatures.
It's frustrating that's for sure. I have two more videos coming looking at preconditioning as well as parking in a heated garage, just so we can get the full picture
No heat pump I guess.
No, it uses a PTC electric heater. I think a heat pump wouldn't perform any better in that cold though, to be fair. In a mild climate - a heat pump would outperform this heater IMO.
Let's be real here. If you live somewhere that gets to these temperatures there are 110 outlets everywhere. Every house and apartment complex, and pretty much every workplace has powered plugs at every stall. This was in no way a realistic situation. Not using the preheat feature makes no sense. He wasn't giving the "benefit of the doubt". This was intentionally creating the worst, and most unlikely edge case and fully intending to have a bad result. Why he is at all frustrated and surprised by the result is a mystery when that's clearly what he wanted.
Let's be real here indeed, what about a very large portion of population that lives in an area with no off street parking, and instead they park on the edge of a road in a neighborhood? They aren't allowed to run extension cords over public sidewalks. Perhaps they have a charging location at work, but that doesn't solve the problem while at home, so this is in fact a very realistic situation. I'm sure your next argument is, well why would someone in this situation get an EV then? That's a valid argument, but people need to be aware of the reality in this event. If you were to watch some more recent videos, there was a TSB update to the heater which does help, but it's still not ideal in an environment where you can't plug in and pre-condition.
Can we go back a step .. if you are charging the vehicle you can’t start the car .. what EXACTLY is “ pre-conditioning “
???
What are the steps ?
Is the first step unplugging and then turning on car and heater ??
Hi Lucia, there are lots to go over here. The best practice for this vehicle is to use the app and set a departure schedule. If that's not an option, use the PAAK and start it ahead of your departure 10-15 minutes.
If you had driven while you were talking, the batteries would have been hot and the indoor temperature would have risen much faster..Mach E owner in cold Sweden. 👍👍👍
I have found the opposite to be true. Once I start moving, the warm air from the heater starts to cool
2023 Update: Has this issue been fixed by Ford yet?
Check out my recent videos. There is a TSB on a fix. It's much better, not as good as a combustion engine however
My car doesn't even start at that Temperature. It's a junky Tesla.
Thought I would let you, know if you
If you still have your Mach E, there is a software update for the HVAC foe heater concerns 😟. Might help next winter 😀. TSB 22-2182. Just released 5.5.22
Thanks! I just saw this too. This may be the answer to my problems
My polestar2 got 7000watt heater.Its made for the scandinavian winters.Volvo genes FTW.
Interesting. I would bet an extra 2kw would be enough to make the difference in this case. What size battery bank do you have?
this is why i want a small diesel heater in mine lol
Elwctric heat has to kill the battery crazy fast
This is why I don't buy electric cars yet because alot of people I know it sucks when it's extreme cold, combustion engine heats up so hot you can roast eggs during the winter.
This is true Andy, and I hope the automakers are paying attention!
It does point out just how far away we are from being able to have everybody on EV's. I keep mine plugged in during cold weather like it's my religion, even at work, but I'm able to, and not everyone has that luxury.
An EV, any EV, will never be as good in those types of temperature extremes as an ICE vehicle that has 1000's of explosions per minute. All the waste heat from those explosions can be used to heat the water for the heater in the winter, but it's just a bother in the summer. You can tell from your screen that the battery is cold soaked. Half of your e heat is trying to get your batteries warm enough to function, It's true that 5K is not enough to do it very quickly, but then again most people are not dealing with anywhere near those types of low temps. If you drove 30 miles at highway speeds, the battery would be warmed up enough to divert more heat to the cabin. Also, a color soaked battery pack won't charge quickly as well. If your battery was in your garage all night then it doesn't need to heat up the battery. Also the farther you drive the smaller the percentage of the battery usage will go to both kinds of heat. So, I totally agree for you an EV, any EV probably shouldn't be your only car.
Well said Dan. Although I can't find any data on it, I wonder if, while plugged in outside, some of the current is going through the heater to keep the batteries at least somewhat warmer than they otherwise would be. I know during preconditioning this happens, but I wonder what the case would be if they sitting at idle while charging.
@@upnorthmike6085 Plugging it in will keep the battery management system working and will keep the batteries at a miniumum temp, but you can't always do that. Also preheating your car while plugged in will help the most. It doesn't us the EV battery to do it. Still, I think you should contact Ford, not the dealer and see if they agree that your car is preforming normally.
@@upnorthmike6085 Here's a good overall EV winter primer. ruclips.net/video/_4ZlEVS1CvU/видео.html
My car will go from 5° to 75° in just minutes. Something's definitely wrong
No kidding?! Do you have a Mach-E, if so, what is your average outside temp the past couple of weeks?
@@upnorthmike6085 sorry I should have said I have a Tesla, but we've been down into the single digits recently. No problem. I do think my heater is between 7 and 8 KW though so I have a little more ump. But Even with only 5 KW you should be getting hot air!
@@Crazypostman Tesla uses a heat pump, which is very different from a PTC heater. Still, that's impressive warm up times!
Your trying to heat it with minus 17 degrees coming into car is plain silly. Your reason is not valid.
What would your suggestion be?
imagine how much worse it would be with a heat pump instead?
Correct, and that's the battle. In VERY cold sub zero temps, the PTC heater will outperform a heat pump. This is also why heat pumps can't be used to heat your house when its sub zero. This makes me wonder of having some type of hybrid PTC & heat pump. Maybe the PTC to kick things off with instant heat and then a heat pump located under the dash or somewhere other than the "engine" compartment could kick in...
@@upnorthmike6085 my lightning heats a lot better, so they must have upped the kw's in the heater. I'm in many debates with folks with manbuns why heat pumps are no good for -20+ up here in Manitoba.
HAHA. Interesting on the lightning, I bet it is a higher output PTC heater then.
I have a mach e. Ev are not made for Canadian weather. Kills my battery. Losing around 40 percent of my range. Ford said to turn off the cabin heat. Haha yes sure. I'm going to turn it off and freeze my Ass. If you guys are looking for an ev and live up north. Think twice. Ill probably get rid of it in the spring
Isn't that something!? Thanks for that tip Ford. Frustrating for sure
Your e heat isn’t on!!! The e heat button would be blue!!! I’m in my Mach e sweating. Please don’t use auto in that very cold weather!
It was on, although the button does toggle. The system goes through a cycle at times, other users report this as well. The heat is on, at times though, on auto, it switches your settings to de-fog the windows briefly. I did have it on 85F and I didn't see an improvement. Stay tuned for a future video to address this!
@@upnorthmike6085 in your video it wasn’t on
@@johnperduloski Trust me, it the I press the button, at times, it cycles during auto
As commented earlier, it was on, I did ensure this, it cycles during the auto option. Even when I press it, just like when I use defrost and feet for the blower, they turn off from time to time even though they are still ON. I don't know why this is.
@@upnorthmike6085 in your Video it wasn’t on look 👀. I watched it again…..it’s not on!!!!!
Gas engines for the all weather performance & reliability win....Again. just watched half a dozen videos of people all over various parts of the country needing to recharge at public charging stations & it was staggering how many charging stations simply wouldn't turn on. several brand chargers on different networks... Imagine needing to recharge, you're running low or barely made it there... then the station refuses to turn on because it's cold..... Meanwhile... Gas vehicles refuel in minutes almost anywhere & develop plenty of heat in minutes. Gas wins again.
Sure, EV's aren't for everyone and they are especially challenging in extreme climates. They excel in the performance areas, but certainly currently are lacking in HVAC and as you stated, public charging locations and reliability.