The Great Stadium Grift

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  • Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024

Комментарии • 1,7 тыс.

  • @StarrPower2232
    @StarrPower2232 Год назад +1580

    There’s an old joke that “if building stadiums really made cities any money, the owners would build the stadiums themselves.”

    • @terrencecarter1915
      @terrencecarter1915 Год назад +37

      The underrated statement of the day.

    • @boosterh1113
      @boosterh1113 Год назад +88

      It's a clever line, but it doesn't really address the pro-stadium argument. Nobody has ever claimed that a stadium will make its costs back in its own ticket sales and concessions, the claim is always that it will boost overall spending in the downtown as a whole, as sports fans book hotel rooms, eat dinner in a restaurant before the game, and go to a bar afterwards. A team owner can't benefit from the increase in spending in other downtown businesses (short of trying to own the entire downtown himself), but the city does, through business and sales taxes.
      As UTree pointed out, the numbers don't necessarily bear that line of logic out, but your quip is a total strawman argument.

    • @ak47groupAKM
      @ak47groupAKM Год назад +39

      ​@@boosterh1113 an old joke. Not a statement.

    • @andriykorobov
      @andriykorobov Год назад +11

      vikings managing just fine, yes using gambling taxes but 500 million paid off 23 years early and the stadium is owned by the state

    • @ideologybot4592
      @ideologybot4592 Год назад +7

      Build something that makes money with your own money, or build something that makes you money using someone else's money... why would the owners build themselves when they can do it on someone else's dime?
      Old joke, old statement, whatever, it's wrong.

  • @Corman1
    @Corman1 Год назад +677

    The worst part of all of this is watching the suits pretend like they've ever actually used a shovel before.

    • @Damian_1989
      @Damian_1989 Год назад +55

      "How do you do, fellow workers?"

    • @TheJingles007
      @TheJingles007 Год назад +28

      Idk, that old lady that couldn’t even lift a shovel full of dirt was pretty funny lol

    • @FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza
      @FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza Год назад +6

      Oh, I wish we could use it on them

    • @justinbenning2428
      @justinbenning2428 Год назад +13

      I'm pretty sure that's not the worst part. Them pilfering the poor cities is considerably way worse than them holding shovels.

    • @pingu3440
      @pingu3440 Год назад +8

      what do you mean "pretend" 😅😅

  • @HornetHKensa
    @HornetHKensa Год назад +2745

    You know it’s bad when a RUclipsr explains things almost 10x better than an official commentator on ESPN these days.

    • @nintendo8127
      @nintendo8127 Год назад +209

      Speaking of ESPN. It might be time for Tree to make another video about them. How they still don’t get it. Plus it’s fun to make fun of ESPN.

    • @Rambam1776
      @Rambam1776 Год назад +50

      Maybe that's why they all got fired today

    • @kurtpunchesthings2411
      @kurtpunchesthings2411 Год назад +25

      what can i say if Sports had a HOF for Fans Tree would be a First ballot Lock

    • @jabobok786
      @jabobok786 Год назад +69

      The ESPN drones aren’t allowed to say anything that would upset the ruling class who make us foot the bill for their businesses

    • @cmd31220
      @cmd31220 Год назад

      Because the big networks exist only because they have the in with the leagues and teams. They push THEIR narrative, not the players, fans, or the truth.

  • @goldensteeltv8546
    @goldensteeltv8546 Год назад +432

    The Olympics are the biggest cautionary tale of building new stadiums. The stadiums only get used for those games and then decay afterwards. The 2004 Athens Olympics and 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympics are perfect examples of that. Atlanta and London have made good use out of their Olympic venues since the conclusion of the games held in those cities.

    • @splashnskillz37
      @splashnskillz37 Год назад +12

      at least in rio we trying to reverse it

    • @Rockhound6165
      @Rockhound6165 Год назад +80

      The LA Colosseum has been around for a century, has hosted 3 Olympics, and is still in use today so it's depends on how the stadium is built.

    • @djm5687
      @djm5687 Год назад +26

      ​@@Rockhound6165When the LA Colosseum was built, the Olympics was a very different beast. It was *amateur* athletic competition and didn't have as many athletes (and events) attending as modern Olympics do.

    • @Rockhound6165
      @Rockhound6165 Год назад +45

      @@djm5687 OK. Still doesn't take away from the fact that the Coliseum is still standing and still being used regularly.

    • @mjwbulich
      @mjwbulich Год назад +31

      ​@@Rockhound6165It's the exception that proves the rule. It immediately became the football stadium for UCLA and USC. USC is still there. The list of professional sport franchises that have called it home at some point is a mile long. There's been at least a half dozen major renovations over the years. It's also now a historic landmark. Like Fenway or Lambeau it's become a part of the city. Very few stadiums will ever be able to say that.

  • @zbetz
    @zbetz Год назад +441

    The funniest part of this video was the idea of a pirates game being sold out.

    • @Chuck_EL
      @Chuck_EL Год назад +29

      as a pirates fan seeing tree put them getting shutout when hes pitching seatgeat is hilarous

    • @andrewalden8364
      @andrewalden8364 Год назад +1

      Yeah, because so many MLB games are sold out! 🙄

    • @FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza
      @FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza Год назад +4

      ​@@andrewalden8364 MLS laughs at this

    • @shidditiddis
      @shidditiddis Год назад +1

      @@andrewalden8364highest attendance rate in decades this season.

  • @theopinionator6313
    @theopinionator6313 Год назад +279

    As a Brit, this shit is insane. We had one example of a team moving in 2002 (Wimbledon FC to Milton Keynes Dons) and it was so controversial the FA (Football Association) practically banned it, with the Wimbledon fans forming a new team and are now playing in the same division as MK Dons!

    • @inconnu4961
      @inconnu4961 Год назад +15

      Oh wow! I dont remember hearing about this but glad Wimbledon got a new club!

    • @Mongo42089
      @Mongo42089 Год назад

      America is just so massive that there's always some new real estate/untapped market to exploit for our greedy owners to hold a new or old city hostage with. And yet all this land wasn't even enough for Kroenke or the Glazers.

    • @RANDOMZBOSSMAN1
      @RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 Год назад +25

      It really is like obvs some teams have moved like MK Dons or Arsenal (they moved from Woolwich Arsenal in South London where they got their name from to North London)
      But imagine someone trying to move a team like Aston Villa to Manchester looool people would throw riots

    • @JonZiegler6
      @JonZiegler6 Год назад +8

      It's a bit hard to moče away when the team's name is (city name) + united/FC. Teams make a lot of money on merchandising, and the brand name itself has quite a lot of value

    • @Garland_From_FF1
      @Garland_From_FF1 Год назад +2

      I'm from the states so I'm not too familiar with soccer history but how long has the Wimbleton club been in the city before it moved?

  • @LGDevilsFan
    @LGDevilsFan Год назад +1459

    It’s still crazy that over 12,000 people got to see a perfect game at the A’s stadium and most of them were Yankee fans.

    • @bw-leftturnracing7779
      @bw-leftturnracing7779 Год назад +135

      To play devils advocate there are Yankees fans literally everywhere. They'll take over any game.

    • @ConPlayz-dp7bk
      @ConPlayz-dp7bk Год назад +69

      @@bw-leftturnracing7779Yanks are the only eternally overrated team. They probably get new fans every minute

    • @Qub3rs
      @Qub3rs Год назад +23

      @@bw-leftturnracing7779 Agreed... every time they come to Toronto, half of the people in the stadium are wearing Yankees caps...

    • @terrencecarter1915
      @terrencecarter1915 Год назад +30

      To be fair, the Bay Area has alot of people from somewhere else around the United States. I lived there and I remember thinking to myself, "This place sure has alot of Dallas Cowboys & Pittsburgh Steelers fans."

    • @rallycapandstanding
      @rallycapandstanding Год назад +10

      @@terrencecarter1915I’m like “everyone can’t be a Yankees or dodgers fan right?” “Why so many white Sox and reds fans hats?”

  • @daleftuprightatsoldierfield
    @daleftuprightatsoldierfield Год назад +134

    I know it’s not a new stadium, but all the renovations to Wrigley Field over the last decade have not cost taxpayers a dime. Considering the renovations cost about as much as an entire stadium, I think it deserves a mention

    • @tevster1316
      @tevster1316 Год назад +19

      And that’s one fanbase that probably wouldn’t even mind fitting the bill

    • @jonathanpusar5931
      @jonathanpusar5931 Год назад +11

      Or instead of fighting locals for creating their own viewing decks out of their homes, using that as a marketing gimmick.
      Ngl there’s things I’m gonna miss when I move out of Chicago. The sports culture is one of them.

    • @drinkingpoolwater
      @drinkingpoolwater Год назад

      actually the residents of wrigley are not all fans of the stadium. the first night played was only 1986.

  • @MrWaifuTaker
    @MrWaifuTaker Год назад +298

    It's fascinating seeing the dirtier side of sports when it comes to the Stadium question.

    • @30ajgo
      @30ajgo Год назад +2

      Probably because you’re not into em.

    • @curtisclayton8023
      @curtisclayton8023 Год назад +1

      And the Stadium question is vastly complicated to answer, at least in terms of the NFL

  • @jamesbryant5147
    @jamesbryant5147 Год назад +411

    When you know everything is a grift, life becomes a lot clearer.

    • @warlordofbritannia
      @warlordofbritannia Год назад +52

      Billionaires don’t become ridiculously wealthy by spending their own money

    • @wej4life
      @wej4life Год назад +7

      Indeed. More people need to come to terms with this fact quicker rather than clutching their pearls in apparent shock when the truth gets a bit more obvious to spot.

    • @josephreilly6328
      @josephreilly6328 Год назад +9

      Great commentary to bad seat geeks prolly a grift too.

    • @blueknight5754
      @blueknight5754 Год назад +1

      Just ask Hunter…grift of the century! 😂

    • @onomatopoeia162003
      @onomatopoeia162003 Год назад

      Probably why a little over 1/3 of Americans in 2020 still didn't vote.

  • @cacawsthelaw
    @cacawsthelaw Год назад +555

    This is why I like when they don't replace the stadiums in England that often. Next season there will be a Premier League team playing right in the heart of a neighborhood, with visiting fans having to go through someone's backyard to get to their seats. Would never fly in America and that's why it's so cool.

    • @thehandoftheking3314
      @thehandoftheking3314 Год назад +53

      I love Luton's ground

    • @tjenadonn6158
      @tjenadonn6158 Год назад +98

      Tom Scott once said something to the effect of "England is the best at doing strange things for a long time simply for the fact that we've been doing things that way for a long time." Gives the place a character that's sorely missing or has even been beaten out of the US.

    • @Princess_Aurora
      @Princess_Aurora Год назад +81

      Europe/Uk has not much land to build new stadiums so they update them rather then build a whole new one.

    • @PhilliesNostalgia
      @PhilliesNostalgia Год назад +8

      Luton do need a new ground though. Should give some extra capacity and meet PL standards. Power Court can not come soon enough. Everton is getting a new stadium, out on the waterfront, as they also could use some more capacity to generate more revenue, as Goodison is kind of crammed right now, with little room for expansion. But yeah, I think the teams owning their own stadiums helps to reduce teams moving from stadium to stadium every 25 years

    • @ANTICENA571
      @ANTICENA571 Год назад +5

      Brentford’s old Griffin Park ground with the pubs on every corner is still amazing

  • @maw4734
    @maw4734 Год назад +59

    The use of the SimCity 3000 soundtrack -- specifically one of the songs that plays when you're building infrastructure like water pipes and power lines -- around the 3:45 mark when groundbreakings and construction are shown is right up my alley when it comes to letting sports and old vidya collide. Tree you beautiful yinzer bastard, you've nailed it again.

    • @IncredibleStan
      @IncredibleStan 26 дней назад

      the metal gear solid music was a good touch too.

  • @weeds526
    @weeds526 Год назад +110

    Field of Schemes is a good read that goes into quite a bit of detail on this topic, especially about the stadium and arena boom of the 90s

    • @JBarg25
      @JBarg25 Год назад +7

      Yep. There were a number of books published discussing this in the wake of the Browns and Oilers moving, and Field of Schemes is probably the best.

    • @warlordofbritannia
      @warlordofbritannia Год назад +7

      On a related note I’d recommend “Lords of the Realm” by John Heyler-it’s a history of Union-owner conflicts in the MLB up until the 1994-1995 strike.

    • @deadinternet66
      @deadinternet66 Год назад

      I read this when I was in high school and didn't watch sports for like 15 years after that.

    • @daveatkins3796
      @daveatkins3796 Год назад

      I go there myself, too.

  • @josh1mark
    @josh1mark Год назад +138

    One of your best and most important videos ever. It's insane how much tax dollars go towards stadiums and residents don't get anything back

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад +14

      The park he showed at the beginning of the video is the perfect example. PNC Park did not increase Pittsburgh revenue AT ALL, and my yet to be born grandchildren will still be taxed to pay it off. Oh, and Pittsburghers voted against the stadium and said the Pirates could leave... the Mayor said we didn't know what we wanted and agreed we would pay for the stadium.

    • @ultravenia
      @ultravenia Год назад +4

      Yeah, and I never heard of these "state of the art" clauses. It's just a blank check of taxpayer funds. Not. Worth. It.

    • @gwell66v2AnimeReviews
      @gwell66v2AnimeReviews Год назад

      But Ive got to look at all these lunatics cry over student loans. "Socialism doesnt work!!!!" Through tax cuts, loopholes, military waste/overspending and catering to super pac donors by making deals (similar to the kinds of local bs deals like these stadium deals) we spend hundreds of billions or trillions ANNUALLY on socializing the people who already have all the money. The one time the govt was giving to everyone ELSE, giving to average people who are going to be pumping money, time and resources into the economy at large instead of hoarding it... and half the country throws a fit without knowing anything about the economy or how our taxes constantly get misused for things like this.

    • @djm5687
      @djm5687 Год назад +5

      ​@kenfresno2125 Just curious: did the mayor or any of the politicians that voted in favor of using tax dollars for the stadium *get voted out of office?*

    • @Detric
      @Detric Год назад

      Socialism for the rich, brutalist feudalism for the poor.

  • @zachdirects
    @zachdirects Год назад +266

    As a Royals fan, the grift and pressure John Sherman the owner has put on the city for a new stadium has been tense. Fans are angry because the team is so bad, and in a state of rising inflation people don't want to pay taxes for a team that has a consistency in being bad. This year was supposed to be an evaluation season he said, a 60 win team, but instead he'll get a 40 win team if he's lucky.

    • @joeym5243
      @joeym5243 Год назад +18

      Also it is sad that KC hasn't had an NBA or even NHL team come, and likely won't even if the NBA expans

    • @lorddane4147
      @lorddane4147 Год назад +20

      ​@joeym5243 Well they did have a NBA Team, it just moved to Sacramento.

    • @kylem2693
      @kylem2693 Год назад +5

      Wait...didn't Kauffman Stadium get renovated around the time yall won the WS??

    • @Michael-ew1ys
      @Michael-ew1ys Год назад +39

      As a fellow Kansas Citian I will be enraged if he gets a new stadium. If they were winning it would still piss me off, but he has the balls to ask for one when the Royals have only been competitive in 2 seasons the last 20+ years. Bunch of shit.

    • @zetastreaker47
      @zetastreaker47 Год назад +4

      I didn’t even know about the Royals gunning for a new stadium. I hope you guys keep your team.

  • @davemustang8173
    @davemustang8173 Год назад +47

    I love seeing the suits wear their plastic hard hats and $3000 threads just to shovel 1 load of dirt into the exact same spot

  • @Alkiviadis_
    @Alkiviadis_ Год назад +11

    As a European, the thought of losing your team to *another city* because they wanted to build a frickin stadium is ludicrous. I've always considered this practise insulting, like you have the fans giving their sweat, tears and paychecks for the team, and you just move house cause you wanted more sponsor money and for the home games to look better. No wonder USA fans aren't as passionate as Europeans for their teams, if your team can just decide on a whim to leave you, why even bother.

  • @RRRandomRecordings
    @RRRandomRecordings Год назад +36

    As a Panthers fan, thank you so much for that final clip to end the video. It's great to relive the moment that made 2022-23 the best season Florida has ever had as a franchise. Getting to watch Verhaeghe score that goal as my dad and I live streamed the game was truly special..

  • @mattbriddell9246
    @mattbriddell9246 Год назад +138

    We're going through the same thing in Chicago. Now the Bears are trying to pit every suburb in Cook County against each other all for the "privilege" of hosting an NFL team.

    • @warlordofbritannia
      @warlordofbritannia Год назад +22

      I thought it was called Crook County

    • @Jogo-62
      @Jogo-62 Год назад +10

      They are looking outside of Crook County as well. Only Waukegan and A.H. are in Cook. Naperville and Aurora are firmly outside in DuPage and Kane Counties

    • @sporeranier
      @sporeranier Год назад +4

      @@Jogo-62 Waukegan is not in Cook county

    • @Jogo-62
      @Jogo-62 Год назад +3

      @@sporeranier Whoops! I'm retarded. I always think it's in Cook when it's the county seat of Lake...

    • @BCaldwell
      @BCaldwell Год назад +1

      Chiraq

  • @JustinGreene0224
    @JustinGreene0224 Год назад +99

    After what happened in SD and with Spanos, this was the exact thing that pulled me into the VGK. Vegas built their team from scratch without local taxpayer money. That was so refreshing, and the fact they were good was just a bonus.
    This is exactly why I say to call their bluff. If a team threatens to move without taxpayer funds, let them. If they want taxpayer funds for your private venture (taxpayers that may not even be fans of your sport), then the city gets an ownership stake. This crap needs to stop.
    Hell the ownership deal of GB I can wholeheartedly get behind.

    • @darryljorden9177
      @darryljorden9177 Год назад +1

      Sadly, like Tree said, there will always be another city which will be more than happy to bend over.

    • @daveatkins3796
      @daveatkins3796 Год назад +21

      As a former Charger fan, I’m glad SD told Spanos to get fucked. San Diegans got tired of him waffling about to where they finally said, if you’re gonna go, go! The Knights are a good example of how a franchise should be runned with a competent owner and personnel. Kraft also privately funded Gillette stadium, same with the GSW owner and SF Giants ownership and Kroencke - for all his faults and he’s got plenty, did it too. And although I’m not a Packers fan, I love how it’s a communal ownership. I wish professional sports were like that but that’s dead and buried. Oakland finally had the balls to say No to Davis and Fisher. You’re absolutely right about how people need to start calling their bluff on owners. Ownership in SF (excluding the Niners) were able to publicly fund their stadiums, why can’t everyone else? It’s like the old adage: a rich man never gets rich spending his own money, he gets rich by getting others to spend it on him.

    • @chopshec83
      @chopshec83 Год назад

      Or they should have a clause like the Ohio State Legislature did after the Cleveland Browns moved in the mid-90s which states that if you are an owner of a publicly subsidized stadium and you want to relocate your team that you have to first sell your team. This clause was actually effective many years later when the scumbag owner of the Columbus Crew try to hijack the city in an attempt to move the team to Austin Texas.

    • @jchapman8248
      @jchapman8248 Год назад

      Billionaires and multi-multimillionaires who own sports franchises are a scourge to the sporting world. They're greedy bastards who expect full or nearly full public funding (from taxes paid by their hard working fans and or the unwitting tourists) for their shrines of competition with little personal out of pocket expense. Then when they get their stadiums, they stick it to their fans by raising up the prices for tickets and concessions! No thank you.

    • @reekkoh
      @reekkoh Год назад

      @@daveatkins3796cry.

  • @gardenboydon
    @gardenboydon Год назад +44

    This is why I like your channel. This is a glaring inconvenient truth with sports stadiums. Thank you for bringing light to it

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад

      It's weird that he opened the video with PNC Park for his commercial, but didn't actually mention how the team robbed Pittsburghers to build that stadium, and will still be robbing us for the next 30 years to pay it off.

  • @zetastreaker47
    @zetastreaker47 Год назад +20

    I’ve been told by my parents that the moment you buy a new car it’s value starts to decrease. I think owners of sports teams think this same way too. That the moment their new digs open up they start to care less and less for it and quickly will demand for a new place.

  • @MazeDaGr8
    @MazeDaGr8 Год назад +147

    Me being in Virginia, sometimes I get bummed because we don't have a major sports team. However videos like this remind me that that might not be such a bad thing 🤷🏾‍♂️ Especially with what these other cities have to go through 😬

    • @wristfroze
      @wristfroze Год назад +14

      The capitals of hockey and wizards owner are threatening to move to Virginia

    • @jandrew1994
      @jandrew1994 Год назад +26

      At least you have Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens Williamsburg which are better than 2 sports teams, IMO.

    • @MazeDaGr8
      @MazeDaGr8 Год назад +2

      ​@@jandrew1994Amen to that 👊🏽

    • @Ghostdog814
      @Ghostdog814 Год назад +11

      As someone who also lives in Virginia, I don’t think we should build a stadium cause the traffic on I-95 and I-495 would just get even worse than it is now.

    • @MrBeachbum313
      @MrBeachbum313 Год назад +2

      All the more reason to either let a team like the Commanders stay in either Maryland or DC, or have their fancy new ownership prove that they'll pay for the whole thing themselves, something Dan Synder clearly had no interest in doing.

  • @SirZapdos
    @SirZapdos Год назад +104

    Moral of the story: pay for your own stadium and you'll win a championship.

    • @shauncameron8390
      @shauncameron8390 Год назад +25

      Like the 2021 Los Angeles rams and 2023 Vegas Golden Knights.

    • @FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza
      @FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza Год назад

      Did they fully pay for Emirates Stadium? That would explain a lot

    • @thejoulesthief6841
      @thejoulesthief6841 Год назад

      no, Emirates was built and finished in 2006 while Stan Kroenke was a 11% stack holder in 2007 and only became the sole owner of AFC in 2018. However, Arsenal did fund their stadium completely privately which kind of goes to the point Zapdos is making. Arsenal's finances are some of the top of the EPL even better than Man City. Tifo Football RUclips Channel (owned by the Athletic) did an amazing video on their finances @@FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza
      see: ruclips.net/video/AdIGtl3ztJk/видео.htmlsi=zYK_0FZt60z44Eok

    • @donaldjgumpofficial5754
      @donaldjgumpofficial5754 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza Yes. They were a selling club for a decade to help pay it off.

  • @hottakessports6113
    @hottakessports6113 Год назад +63

    This why it's annoying when people complain about the Packers selling "stocks." We know they're not actually stocks but this way fans get to help the costs to maintain Lambeau without having to inflict a new tax on green bay

    • @MarkZickefoose
      @MarkZickefoose Год назад +29

      People complain because they want that for THIER team - the Packers pretty much CANNOT move due to the ownership structure. The NFL made damn sure it couldn't happen twice, and this video proves they were very smart to do so. They've made SO MUCH money foisting their expenses onto the local governments over the decades.

    • @chriskay1449
      @chriskay1449 Год назад +12

      Execpt they did inflict a new tax on Green Bay. For their major 200 million renovation which included the atrium, that was all funded by the taxpayers minus the money they made on the stock sale in the mid 1990's..A half cent tax was implemented on Brown County of which Green Bay is a part. However, that tax was approved by a referendum vote That tax was retired in 2015, YEARS ahead of schedule. Why? There was provision in the referendum that ALL the money from the tax goes to Brown County for them to use as they saw fit which is what allowed them to pay off the bonds early and have plenty of money left over to invest back into the local economy. The State of Wisconsin loved the deal because they did not have to pay a single cent and it was left to Green Bay and Brown County, so they were more than happy to stay out of the entire deal and let Brown County have full authority. The Packers used all the new revenue from Lambeau to pay for all future renovations and create a reserve fund of a half a billion dollars which allowed them to operate during the pandemic.
      That Lambeau Field renovation was a rare success

    • @ExileOnDaytonStreet
      @ExileOnDaytonStreet Год назад

      @@chriskay1449 Another fun benefit of that Brown County sales tax was being able to enter a lottery with other Brown Co. residents for tickets to games. You'd still have to pay for the tickets if you won the lottery, but it was a good way to be able to buy face value tickets without having to wait your whole life in the season ticket line.

  • @imrustyokay
    @imrustyokay Год назад +56

    Oh god, as someone trying to get into media, what you said at 6:20 is 100% accurate. If you're not willing to work long hours for shit pay, your ass is on the next bus home, potentially to never return again. And people wonder why Writers' and Actors' unions exist.

    • @cattibingo
      @cattibingo Год назад

      Visual effects artists got screwed becoming popular after the reagan administration thoroughly destroyed unions.

  • @SanDeezyBreezy61986
    @SanDeezyBreezy61986 Год назад +9

    As a former Chargers fan, it hurt like hell when Dean Spanos abandoned us. The city was more than willing to work with him to get a new stadium in the existing Mission Valley area next to QUALCOMM. Dean, however, wanted a downtown stadium due to its lucrative land value. He never acted in good faith, and always wanted to move to Los Angeles. Now, he’s the owner of a team without a home with no real fanbase to speak of. I’m proud to say we are one of the few cities that said fuck you to an owner asking us to foot the bill of their ego shrines.

  • @xaviersaavedra7442
    @xaviersaavedra7442 Год назад +111

    There should be a law where if any city or state pays for a stadium. They should have a share of ownership in the team.

    • @chriskay1449
      @chriskay1449 Год назад +14

      That should never h appen. The goverment has enough power to seize property used for corrupt purposes.

    • @xaviersaavedra7442
      @xaviersaavedra7442 Год назад

      @@chriskay1449 hate to break it to you, but there are thousands of examples of majority publicly owned shares of teams in the world world who aren’t as corrupt as the billionaire owned teams that strong arm the cities they reside in. The only places we’re it comes close to your government corruption you’re claiming is dictatorships.

    • @novanator3355
      @novanator3355 Год назад +2

      look up who owns the new bills stadium. (hint: its not the pegulas)

    • @DM-yj9qf
      @DM-yj9qf Год назад

      everything is negotiatble

    • @ProudRegressive
      @ProudRegressive Год назад +4

      Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the CFL are an example. Their current 30,000 seat stadium went over by $100 million, but at least they are community owned.
      Fan ownership is another ideal if stadiums are publicly funded. At least the people benefiting actually have a say on how the teams run. This works well in Green Bay as the Packers might be the only relevant thing in town asides from a university.

  • @Chimidway88
    @Chimidway88 Год назад +31

    Fantastic video Tree. The Bears are still looking at other places for their new stadium…now they are looking at Naperville and Aurora 🤦🏻‍♂️

    • @bleakaux9289
      @bleakaux9289 Год назад +10

      Hell, their looking at Waukegan of all locations now, knowing damn well that their getting a shiny new Casino by 2026 and don't even have a location to start building what they have planned. They all just see dollar signs as if their all Mr. Krabs dude.
      Something tells me this all isn't gonna end well.

    • @Chimidway88
      @Chimidway88 Год назад +8

      @@bleakaux9289 yeah when I saw that I just laughed and said “Yeah ok….Waukegan is just as bad with crime than Chicago. Maybe not that much in the numbers but it’s bad regardless.

    • @Chuck_EL
      @Chuck_EL Год назад +2

      the mccaskeys and the media's "derr mah hard nose daaaa beears football" narratives for the stadium is annoying my dad's side of the family are life long chicago sports fans since even after they moved to pa in the early 70s so i know all about the clear tone deaf media and the mccaskeys compared to the fans
      i remember telling my family whenever the "hard nose" excuses is used for why they keep soldier field "didnt that same 'hard nosed bears' team dominate the 80s and win a sb with astro turf and a smaller stadium ??"

    • @Jogo-62
      @Jogo-62 Год назад

      A Stadium in Aurora or, he'll, even Joliet might be interesting. I wouldn't write it off quite yet

  • @scarpfish
    @scarpfish Год назад +7

    You mentioned the T-Mobile Center in Kansas City but forgot an important detail. Due to the city NOT being able to land an NBA or NHL franchise, they have a lot greater leeway in scheduling concerts and other events without having to try working around the primary tenant's home schedule. As a result, (and also being on the edge of an entertainment district), it's still a profitable arena after 15 years.
    The thing is, people WILL come into town for concerts, a monster truck show or the Big XII or NCAA basketball tournaments and stay the night and get a hotel room. Only a smattering of visiting team or out of town fans will when your local sports franchise hosts a home game.

  • @HeisenbergFam
    @HeisenbergFam Год назад +58

    The transition to the sponsor is smooth, nice one
    1:05 "desperation leads to disaster, tale old as time" wise words from a wise man

  • @buzzsaw1000
    @buzzsaw1000 Год назад +7

    "socialize the costs, privatize the benefits" sums up the grift perfectly

  • @zachs_way2749
    @zachs_way2749 Год назад +27

    It's crazy how many teams just threaten to leave the city if they don't feel like they're getting whatever they want.

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад +9

      The Pirates threatened to leave Pittsburgh. Pittsburghers voted for them to leave. Our mayor then decided our votes don't count and gave the team funding for PNC Park. I believe we've got about 3 more decades of increased taxes to finish paying it off... of course in 3 decades it will be long since torn down and we'll already be paying for another park.

    • @Michael-yd7nt
      @Michael-yd7nt Год назад +2

      All payments, subsidies, incentives, etc., whether direct or indirect should be made illegal. That would end the shake downs. Hard to believe average taxpayers are gifting stadiums to billionaires. It's insane.

  • @raineob4996
    @raineob4996 Год назад +34

    I live in Alberta. The Flames got $330 million in provincial money and even more city money for an arena as a pure election ploy in the middle of a massive affordability crisis and major cuts to healthcare and education. Its horrible.
    There’s no question that the Saddledome is a dump, but they walked away over like $10 million and got an even better deal for vote buying. It’s a horrible deal for residents and we’re going to be paying it off for a long time.

    • @tehbeernerd
      @tehbeernerd Год назад +2

      It’s $800 million total, right?

    • @TayR0C
      @TayR0C Год назад

      We've been paying off the alternate's fuck ups since she was last in. She octupled our deficit. I've been in debt since. Do you have amnesia? Keep watching Castreau funded (tax funded) media propaganda.

    • @SaveznaRepublikaJugoslavija
      @SaveznaRepublikaJugoslavija Год назад

      The Oilers paid 165 million with Edmonton paying 312 million for Rogers Place. I love the Edmonton Oilers and I knew we needed the new arena as we couldn’ use the Northlands Coliseum forever

    • @codydalgleish5652
      @codydalgleish5652 Год назад

      The real shit part is for those of us Albertan’s who don’t even live in Calgary 😢

  • @justanothermichigander4683
    @justanothermichigander4683 Год назад +33

    You forgot to mention the Wilfs. US bank is partly publicly funded, but the Wilfs payed off the entire stadium something like 20 years ahead of schedule out of pocket. Saved Minneapolis taxpayers close to $300 million

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад +3

      He forgot to mention Bob Nutting even though he opened the video promoting PNC Park. There were certainly some strange omissions in this one.

    • @TheLaughingMustache-oh5ff
      @TheLaughingMustache-oh5ff Год назад +3

      "Saved" lol.

  • @patrickbattle232
    @patrickbattle232 Год назад +11

    Hearing Tree talk about the economics of sports teams is very cool

  • @masterzane4369
    @masterzane4369 Год назад +4

    You literally summed up my Sport Finance class in 10 minutes. This is incredibly impressive and speaks to how much you know your stuff. Well done.

  • @andyjay729
    @andyjay729 Год назад +16

    When you said "invasion of the dreaded furry menace", I thought the Phillies were coming to town and bringing the Phanatic.

    • @eksortso
      @eksortso Год назад +3

      If that's all there was to it, I'd laugh, and finish the video. Punching down furries is just douchebaggery. But I probably already agree with everything else he said on the subject of stadiums in the U.S. They promise a lot, deliver little in return, and rip off taxpayers in the process.

    • @WolfyRagnarok
      @WolfyRagnarok Год назад +1

      brb invading

  • @philly_sports1558
    @philly_sports1558 Год назад +79

    Philadelphia is currently going through a situation like this. The Sixers are trying to strong arm the city into building a new arena downtown (all of the Big 4 stadiums in the city are located in a giant parking lot in South Philadelphia). The city and local populus are not buying it though. Mainly because the Sixers have exhausted most of their goodwill after years of continuous choking and the fact that they’ll probably be in a rebuild and will be awful by the time the new arena would be built.

    • @reedermh
      @reedermh Год назад +31

      And being a Dallas fan (who of course hates the Eagles), I like the Philly concept of having all the stadiums/arenas in one location. Especially with having true mass transit options.

    • @MegaAce042
      @MegaAce042 Год назад +26

      I actually like Philadelphia's sports complex, being in a relatively tame location of the city as well as being right next to I 95 and just an exit away makes it the most convenient location for all the teams to be at.

    • @darryljorden9177
      @darryljorden9177 Год назад +7

      "Trust the process"

    • @daveatkins3796
      @daveatkins3796 Год назад +6

      I really miss the Vet and the Spectrum. Those were great times

    • @Rockhound6165
      @Rockhound6165 Год назад +4

      Their threat to move to Camden helped lead to the construction of the Corestates/First Union/Wachovia/Wells Fargo Center though so they think it will work again. That said, the downtown arena would be a disaster. Not only will it destroy Chinatown, it will be a logistical nightmare.

  • @smilingearth5181
    @smilingearth5181 Год назад +4

    You just explained almost perfectly why, despite passion and loyalty, a lot cities will let a team leave before they dole out big money on them.

  • @adamcook3397
    @adamcook3397 Год назад +11

    Love seeing a new Tree video pop up on my feed 🫡

  • @Christopher_Culpepper
    @Christopher_Culpepper Год назад +24

    I honestly was impressed with Oakland's city leadership. They knew that the A's owner was trying to extort them, and budget-wise, they couldn't afford it. Rather than let the owner's fleece them again for fancy stadiums they wouldn't be able to profit from, they left the table. Honestly more NFL cities should do the same. IIRC, the Dolphin's owner tried to get Miami to pony up for stadium renovations, and they told him to kick rocks. He ended up paying for it out of pocket.

    • @DrJonLubin
      @DrJonLubin Год назад +4

      Miami-Dade County had the political window to tell the dolphins to kick rocks after what Loria did with the Miami Marlins. Citizens got politicians kicked out with that move, South Floridians are still hesitant on funding stadiums because of that mess.

    • @neneshubby
      @neneshubby Год назад +5

      Oakland has been ripped mercilessly by fans around the country for not keeping their teams but this video shows they tried to play the stadium game and were burned in a major way. He didn’t even mention the $120M the city spent to renovate Oracle Arena in 1997 (220M in today’s dollars) Oakland had to force the Warriors in court to pay for their part of the renovations when they moved to San Francisco.

    • @ProudRegressive
      @ProudRegressive Год назад

      That would seem to work well for larger markets but the NFL is the league that abandoned fricken Los Angeles and Houston, the former losing two teams in a single year.

    • @THERSC216
      @THERSC216 8 месяцев назад

      They got extorted way back in 1995 when they built Mt. Davis. It was useless and thus the Raiders still left again, the Warriors moved across to San Francisco, and the A's are on their way to Vegas.

  • @jamesdarby86
    @jamesdarby86 Год назад +5

    Amazing video - as an Englishman, the concept of having a sports team relocate is pretty much unheard of (there's a handful of cases, but none of them were high profile teams). Scary how much power these owners have

  • @ericradford2142
    @ericradford2142 Год назад +5

    Urinating Tree you are the man with your videos. They light fire under mediocre teams and rip consistently inconsistent teams and owners that hold cities hostage for public money for new stadiums.

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад

      It's weird though that he wouldn't mention the Pirates and PNC Park, especially since he promoted them at the beginning of the video. Pittsburghers voted against building PNC Park... but our mayor decided we didn't know what we wanted and gave the team funding anyway. My yet to be born grandchildren will still be paying increased taxes to pay off this park.

  • @R2M_Productions
    @R2M_Productions Год назад +47

    The 76ers want to move out of Wells Fargo Center and into an arena in center city and fans like me are upset at that. If you didn’t know, all the 4 major sports teams stadiums in Philadelphia are located in the same complex and are right off I-95 so they are easy to get to and that’s such a luxury when you compare it to other cities and seeing a team not understand it is upsetting to me, especially when Wells Fargo Center isn’t old.

    • @cdprice
      @cdprice Год назад

      Yea I need to know how much money the taxpayer will fork over; I don't trust Fetterman at all with this BS 1.3 Billion dollar Deal. and they whole "Trust the Process" I expect rioting.

    • @MrBeachbum313
      @MrBeachbum313 Год назад +10

      I was thinking a bit about the Sixers during this video and how seemingly foolish Philly and the state of Pennsylvania will be if they allow the construction of a brand new place miles away from where all of the other sports related infastrucure already exists. I don't live in PA, but if I did, I'd be livid if they approved a whole new building before improving the one that they already have.

    • @marcus813
      @marcus813 Год назад +2

      Why are the 76ers so desperate to move to Center City?

    • @MrBeachbum313
      @MrBeachbum313 Год назад +4

      @@marcus813 an ESPN article from April mentions supporters wanting it to be based around public transit, and would bring “needed investment and development” into Center City. Other than that, they haven’t publicly mentioned a “need” to vacate the Wells Fargo Center, even saying that they’re not in a rush. Personally, it seems much more beneficial to keep everything sports related in one place in south Philly, since then you can have SEPTA operate the same trains towards the area for basketball and hockey as they would for baseball and football, parking lots can be shared between the venues, and it’s all right by I-95, allowing for easier access for fans from New Jersey, Delaware, or other parts of Pennsylvania not in Philly to access the area

    • @Rockhound6165
      @Rockhound6165 Год назад +4

      Believe it or not the WF Center is nearly 30 years old. Strange to think of it that way but yeah, not a long time especially considering that the Vet was only 33 years old when it was imploded.

  • @cadianlord3430
    @cadianlord3430 Год назад +22

    This probably one of my favorite vids you have made! I have never had some one break down the stadium grift like that and make sense. Awesome vid Tree!

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад +1

      You should look into the park he promotes at the start of the video. Pittsburghers voted against building PNC Park, but our mayor just told us we didn't know what we wanted and gave the team the funding. The team has never won even a playoff series, has never spent money, and my yet to be born grandchildren will still be trying to pay off PNC Park.

  • @EPCOTFan82
    @EPCOTFan82 Год назад +28

    Might as well add the Capitals and Wizards to this list, Ted Leonsis is threatening to move them to Virginia if DC doesn't pay for upgrades to Capital One Arena.

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад +2

      It's odd that he didn't add the Pirates, considering Pittsburghers voted against building them a new park... but the owner and mayor got together and decided we didn't know what we wanted... and now my yet to be born grandchildren will still be paying off PNC Park.

    • @MarloSoBalJr
      @MarloSoBalJr Год назад +2

      ​@kenfresno2125 Well, I hope your child gets to experience the Pirates actually being GOOD by the time they reach adulthood

  • @i_had_3_pugs
    @i_had_3_pugs Год назад +8

    tree, you forgot to mention the edmonton oilers nearly moving to seattle about 10 years ago. due to our owner Daryl Katz wanted a new arena (Rogers Place), when there was next to nothing wrong with Rexall

  • @xcrunner5038
    @xcrunner5038 Год назад +4

    Tree has got to be one of the best sports story tellers/ narrators on youtube

  • @neneshubby
    @neneshubby Год назад +2

    As a longtime Oakland resident thanks for setting straight all the people ripping Oakland for being hesitant to hand the A’s money. They’ve already been burned and are still paying for it.

  • @eastsidetactown
    @eastsidetactown Год назад +6

    Kraken did the same thing with CPA that the Knights did, in large part because of how pissed the city still is over what Clay Bennett did with the Sonics

  • @eastmidwest11700
    @eastmidwest11700 Год назад +1

    So glad we’re having this conversation. More teams should go the Gillette Stadium route - yes they host local concerts & Pats/Revs games, but they allocated land specifically to retail & entertainment. Not to mention that they’re medium and big box locations that attract a lot of people and wouldn’t necessarily have items that are easy to find online, so people have to go there. Another solution is what PG County, MD is doing with the FedEx Field area - they know the Commanders are gonna leave, so they’re just building housing there.
    TLDR: don’t just build the stadium, make it an anchor site for other things that are year-round.

  • @walle7284
    @walle7284 Год назад +7

    These are the kind of videos I wish you’d do more.
    Very imformative

  • @billschipper1718
    @billschipper1718 Год назад +1

    Another great video Tree !! You're right about how every NFL team that wanted a stadium used Los Angeles for blackmail. The list 49ers, Cardinals , Vikings ,( and they did it twice ) Seattle, Chargers and the Rams again. What bothers me the most is the NFL makes enough money in three years to buy a new stadium for each team without public funding.

    • @danielkerber8667
      @danielkerber8667 Год назад

      Funny thing is Vikings stadium has already been paid off. Both the Wilfs and the Public paid it off 20 years early. Apparently Pull Tabs which is a scratch off game is a great way raise revenue if you locate dispensers at bars.

  • @jeremyforbes5244
    @jeremyforbes5244 Год назад +5

    When Hard Rock Stadium came time for rennovations, Stephen Ross tried to get the public to pay for it for years. He even dragged Dan Marino to court to advocate for the team!
    He ended up paying for it on his own when no one caved and called out his relocation BS. The problem with this as Tree said beautifully was that most cities outside of the major ones do not have the leverage to call these owners on their bluffs. Kroenke paid out of pocket because LA is a city that is so lucrative for teams that they knew they didnt have to pay a dime and teams would line up to come.

  • @Aamodon1
    @Aamodon1 Год назад +1

    A few things I want to add to your essay, which is very spot on considering how often the topic is quickly brushed under the rug by politicians.
    Politicians look at more than just "tourists" to justify spending on a stadium. Tourism is an unrealsitic expectation for about 75% of franchise cities. Cities like Oakland, Indianapolis, Buffalo and St. Louis are never going to attract enough tourism to justify the spending of the facility. If anything, I imagine people would probably pay you money NOT to take them to St.Louis or Oakland. The reason most of the these stadiums get cleared is because it allows the local governments to put a stimulus into the local economy without outright just giving people money. As you mentioned in your video construction leads to a lot of pork in bills and that's largely tolerated because these project employ thousands of individuals for long periods of time in an industry that typically sees a employment booms and busts. Large scale projects like these keep people employed and keep them off your unemployment figures come election season.
    Additionally, breads and circuses has been a viable political tactic since the days of Rome. Attracting a sports team gives your voters a distraction that keeps them at home instead of in the street protesting. Sports have long been a tool of modern government to both placate and control the masses to some extent. In small moderation, it can be fine. I don't think anyone really cares when the local mayor makes a jibe at a division rival, but the second it begins to rely on it as a distraction from public policy or as a medium by which you can direct hatred of your constituents at something other than your effectiveness, it becomes a problem. Its less pronounced in the US, but think about how radical and nationalized football teams can be in Europe or in South America as an example. If you don't think that can occur in the US, I'd ask you to walk into a Philly Sports bar with a Dak Prescott Jersey on.

  • @kurtpunchesthings2411
    @kurtpunchesthings2411 Год назад +80

    this is why as a Jets fan i am proud to say the stadium we share with the Giants was 100% Privately financed not a Dime of Taxpayer money was spent on it

    • @theblueoctopus4494
      @theblueoctopus4494 Год назад +5

      Should have built it in Manhatten.

    • @tehbeernerd
      @tehbeernerd Год назад +35

      You didn’t watch the video, did you? The stadium itself was privately financed… but not the upkeep.

    • @boosterh1113
      @boosterh1113 Год назад +2

      @@tehbeernerd Eh, a downtown stadium does provide some boost to downtown spending (hotels, taxis, bars, etc.). It is almost never enough to justify the cost of construction, but it might be enough to cover the upkeep, or at least get close.

    • @tehbeernerd
      @tehbeernerd Год назад +1

      @@boosterh1113The Jets play in New Jersey, though. Nobody is going to the Meadowlands for anything else besides that ugly mall.

    • @MrRapmaster19
      @MrRapmaster19 Год назад +8

      @@tehbeernerd True, although I will admit the public funding was mainly used to build a rail station/line connecting to the Meadowlands, which was 100% worth it. As someone who's a Giants fan and lives in NYC, the trek is way easier for NYC residents to get there than it was when it was the dump known as Giants Stadium.

  • @theepoetrygod
    @theepoetrygod Год назад +2

    the funny part is that Chicago’s been through the same with their teams.
    the Cubs have had a ton of renovations over the past 20 years to keep up with Fenway to boast themselves as the longest standing stadiums in baseball.
    as for the Bears, the good thing for the Bears is that Soldier Field is owned by the city’s park district, so it could still be used as a concert venue if the team moves out. the bad thing is even after purchasing the rumored property for new digs in Arlington Heights, they’re still on Zillow to see if something’s better in Naperville, Aurora, or Waukegan.

  • @shanebrown473
    @shanebrown473 Год назад +5

    Vegas is different than the average city when it comes to economic return from a stadium due to the non-NFL events Allegiant Stadium runs year-around via tourism from THE STRIP. In 2016 the "projected" Economic output was $620 mill/yr $231mill in Wages/Salaries to stadium employees, and 5,980 jobs......ACTUAL economic output in 2022? = $1.8 billion/yr (+185%) economic output, $443 mill (+92%) in wages/salaries, and 7,900 (32%) jobs. The $750 mill Allegiant Stadium got from a hotel room tax (not Clark County/Las Vegas general taxpayer fund) is a literal drop in the bucket to the economic impact the stadium has had on the city. It more than doubles what it was paid for every.single.year.

  • @tonyo3544
    @tonyo3544 Год назад +2

    Both the Vikings and Twins have very recently received new big money stadiums. Higher taxes in the city, all the cool pre-game bars that were there disappeared and now the city feels so boring.

  • @MarloSoBalJr
    @MarloSoBalJr Год назад +5

    While I look at the positives of Grossi's 30in30 fundraising tour, this upload is the reality check we ALL need to get a clue about ownerships and the stadiums we build for them

  • @Yuan-lo3zz
    @Yuan-lo3zz Год назад +1

    6:32 Having to be reminded (as a native) of what happened to St. Louis and the Rams is aggravating. The team being terrible for the better part of decade just to leave area, disparage the city, and leave the taxpayers to pay for an aging stadium that won’t be used to its fullest extent.

  • @johnnybernie3061
    @johnnybernie3061 Год назад +27

    I’m excited for the new Jaguar stadiums. Looks like the Chicago Cloud Gate. Be rough watching them play else where though

    • @tr4v159153
      @tr4v159153 Год назад +9

      the city hasnt actually agreed to pay for it yet. i live in jacksonville and i fucking hope they dont. not even cause im a patriots fan but because fuck giving billionaires money.

    • @johnnybernie3061
      @johnnybernie3061 Год назад +8

      @@tr4v159153 Khan is definitely one NFL owner who can afford to build a stadium with his own money.

    • @datdownin
      @datdownin Год назад +6

      @@tr4v159153 unfortunately most people don't want the city to pay for it but Everbank Stadium (new name) is owned by the city of Jacksonville, so even if Khan would be willing to cough up a billion for the stadium, he legally cannot; the city would need to cover the majority of the cost.

    • @Ratmandu82
      @Ratmandu82 Год назад

      Shit hole Jacksonville doesn’t deserve a NFL team.

  • @bizmen81
    @bizmen81 Год назад +6

    Over in MLS, Columbus Crew is a similar story.
    Also NYCFC finally getting a stadium next to CitiField. Part of a rebuild of Willets Point area of Queens with public housing and new business developments. Will be interesting to see how that works out financially.

    • @storm2k
      @storm2k Год назад

      As with everything, the costs will skyrocket and the city will end up paying a ton of money out of pocket. Honestly the city is on the hook for a lot no matter what just on the required infrastructure that's going to be needed in Willets Point to handle what they want to build there.

  • @jarradchapman4271
    @jarradchapman4271 Год назад +43

    Apparently, there is a correlation between Anthrocon happening and McCutcheon performing well. Should be a good weekend, then.

  • @ayrtons41
    @ayrtons41 Год назад +2

    I came to this channel for silly jokes about the teams I love and hate and I’m being given pullitzer level research and editorializing. Is amazing man, must have taken a long time to do all this work.

  • @jovar.3649
    @jovar.3649 Год назад +17

    Great video as always. I hope you do a video on the MASSIVE failure of multipurpose stadiums. It makes sense on paper; why have two or more stadiums sucking up taxpayer money when you can have just one? In reality, vastly different sports needing different resources, different fields, different amounts of staff at vastly different times of the year causes problems that result in their failure. No. Exceptions.

    • @ProudRegressive
      @ProudRegressive Год назад +3

      I would disagree when it comes to arenas though. Better to build one arena and get two teams then build one for one and have the other hockey/basketball team play elsewhere.

    • @SaveznaRepublikaJugoslavija
      @SaveznaRepublikaJugoslavija Год назад +3

      @@ProudRegressive arenas are easier as the conversion is much simpler

    • @FirearmofMutiny
      @FirearmofMutiny Год назад +1

      ​@ProudRegressive I can't think of another market where the hockey and basketball teams play in separate arenas other than Minnesota. (Get this: the reason why the North Stars didn't move in with the Timberwolves at Target Center was over Pepsi vs. Coke)
      I guess South Florida too (Heat in Miami proper, Panthers in Sunrise)

  • @ndup89
    @ndup89 Год назад +7

    The sad part of the Videotron Center is that it is really well thought out, everything there is top notch. Coming from a Habs fan with the Bell Center.

  • @34spam
    @34spam Год назад +15

    I think that Vegas is a unique situation where it may actually being in outsiders and more spending. We saw it with the Raiders, the amount of away fans was quite high, and I'd expect the same with the A's, so it might actually be worth the public funding in that case, but only time will tell

    • @moonjelly5
      @moonjelly5 Год назад +6

      It makes sense given how Las Vegas is almost entirely built around getting out of towners to come there and see things. This will draw in the sports fans (and the raiders are popular in LA which is easily drivable).
      It's also fun that the team the locals care about is the one with the privately funded stadium.

    • @neneshubby
      @neneshubby Год назад +2

      Financially it will never be worth it. It’s about prestige, nothing more. Stadium and parks do not help the local economy. They never have and they never will. They just spread the entertainment money around locally while the owners take all the profits. That’s been proven time and time again, so much that’s an inarguable point.

    • @TheLaughingMustache-oh5ff
      @TheLaughingMustache-oh5ff Год назад

      Nobody is flying to Vegas to go watch their team play the A's in baseball. It's mostly locals showing up for MLB. Except for the people that are already there or planned on going there for vacation. When the A's suck ..the locals will dry up faster than a 60 year old prostitute.

  • @HarbingerOfBattle
    @HarbingerOfBattle 5 месяцев назад +2

    The owners of the Chiefs and Royals are trying to get in on the action as well. KC is still paying for renovations to both stadiums through tax increases and then all of a sudden when it comes time to ask the voters if they want to extend it, the Royals ask for a new stadium, in downtown, with no parking lot, on land already owned by small businesses. Then all of a sudden the Chiefs come out and say they’ll move if it doesn’t go through. Guess what, the taxpayers saw right through it and it failed. Now both teams are trying to pressure other cities to make them offers. Like Dallas. And KCK.

  • @Bingusandtheallstars
    @Bingusandtheallstars Год назад +12

    As a former stl Rams fan, this brings back too many horrific memories

  • @atsushiidobe9113
    @atsushiidobe9113 Год назад

    Great video as usual Tree! I liked all the examples that you gave of how so many cities have been screwed over into building these stadiums/arenas for the owners. I visited Fenway Park last month and I guess that's what makes places like that (Wrigley Field, Lambeau Field, etc.) special. I'm guessing the owners of those teams (not the Packers, they are an exception) have tried to get new stadiums in the past but they are still standing.

  • @zacharyscott1264
    @zacharyscott1264 Год назад +7

    I live in Nashville. I have for over a decade. Nissan stadium hosts a major event at least once every other week. This will only increase if they have a new modern stadium.

    • @DM-yj9qf
      @DM-yj9qf Год назад

      sure, but what's the revenue slice for the governments that put up the money? if the public puts up all the money but private companies take all the revenue then taxpayers are still getting screwed for taking on the risks

    • @zacharyscott1264
      @zacharyscott1264 Год назад +1

      @@DM-yj9qf valid point. Nashville has one of the worst public school systems in the county… but let’s find stadiums. Greed is a powerful thing

  • @borrelli6257
    @borrelli6257 Год назад +13

    Another team/owner that privately funded their own area recently was warriors owner Joe Lacob, he payed for everything IN San Francisco and it was the reason it got done so quickly

    • @Pokemonmaster150b
      @Pokemonmaster150b Год назад +3

      That's one thing that made me appreciate the Warriors a lot.
      Lacob built his new stadium with HIS OWN MONEY.

    • @Zach-mw5so
      @Zach-mw5so Год назад +4

      Same with the Giants. Oracle Park was almost all privately funded, and it’s one of the best stadiums in baseball, right on the waterfront

    • @Pokemonmaster150b
      @Pokemonmaster150b Год назад +4

      @@Zach-mw5so AMEN.
      Oracle Park is proof that amazing stadiums can be built without Public funding. Makes me proud to be a Giants fan.

    • @TheLaughingMustache-oh5ff
      @TheLaughingMustache-oh5ff Год назад +1

      The same Lacob that tried to shaft Oakland on his way out you mean? That the city had to take him to court to get him to pay $120 million for the renovations the team received lol.

  • @00ABBITT00
    @00ABBITT00 Год назад +3

    FACT: Your favourite sports team(s) do not have you or your communities best interests in mind.. They don’t give a shit about the city that they’re tied to, at all.

  • @NSUTurtle
    @NSUTurtle Год назад +1

    Keep up the good work Tree. It's a shame how many are still loyal toward sports. The relocation threats. Hell, I grew a Charlotte Hornets (pre-Bobcats), Cincinnati Bengals, Ottawa Senators, and Houston Astros fan. I have seen almost of all of them either get threatened with relocation, relocate, or bleed tax payers dry. It's digusting. People vote to not waste tax money but they'll be more passionate about voting against "wokeness" then giving millions to billionaires undercutting the same tax waste they whine about to begin with. I honestly don't know why people still care about sports. I've left it where it deserves to be, my childhood.

  • @furioussherman7265
    @furioussherman7265 Год назад +6

    Honestly, I'd have thought Las Vegas would be the one city where tourism WOULD be able to make up the costs for publicly funding new stadiums since it's got the Strip luring endless hordes of people into their casinos and resorts before draining their wallets dry like a leech. Ironic that the Golden Knights ignored this in favour of funding their arena themselves.

    • @bigdaddydynasty395
      @bigdaddydynasty395 Год назад +1

      Now that I think of it, it actually makes a lot of sense for the team to fully own tmobile arena. They probably get a big cut from all the big ticket events that it hosts year round.

  • @paulmcfadden9498
    @paulmcfadden9498 Год назад

    This is an excellent piece, not full of professional pleasantries, but rather fueled by passion. The very thing that the fans give each day, before greed and opportunity gets in the way. I really appreciate your work, Tree.

  • @michaelbaucom4019
    @michaelbaucom4019 Год назад +22

    In San Francisco, before the Giants pallpark was built, the surrounding area was comprised of rotting industrial type buildings/warehouses. Now, a thriving neighborhood with loads of housing/restaurants/companies surrounding the ballpark. Yes, a ballpark/stadium can bring economic benefits

    • @Altasren
      @Altasren Год назад +11

      And where did that money COME from? The people eating at those restaurants used to eat at restaurants elsewhere in SF. The companies that moved there used to do their business in another neighborhood. The people living in those houses used to live in another neighborhood.

    • @michaelbaucom4019
      @michaelbaucom4019 Год назад +2

      @@Altasren it's called a free market, cope and seethe troll

    • @EvanEscher
      @EvanEscher Год назад +1

      @@Altasren there was nothing around Candlestick. When the Giants moved, they created a new thriving area at China Basin. Candlestick was a place that deserved to be deserted. Also, the Giants park was privately financed. They did get a few tax breaks, but those were paid off within 10 years.

    • @tehbeernerd
      @tehbeernerd Год назад

      San Francisco is a cultural wasteland, but not because of Oracle Park (is that still its name?)

    • @DM-yj9qf
      @DM-yj9qf Год назад

      there were cheaper less ways to make that neighbourhood thriving

  • @TrinityShoji
    @TrinityShoji Год назад +1

    DETROIT.
    City is broke, still climbing out of bankrupcy and yet they shelled out 500 MILLION to the Red Wings to build Little Casears' Arena.
    Stadium cost like 800 million to build on top of that.

  • @Darkshade993
    @Darkshade993 Год назад +3

    As someone who lived in Montana his whole life, I've been wanting my own professional sports team in my state for years and just recently learning of the heartache fans go through just to even have a team in their own citys this makes me not want one hardly anymore. The emotional rollercoaster rides owners and politicians give taxpayers is messed up.
    Yeah I think I'll keep being a fan of out of state teams and continue to hope that the UM Grizzlies get out of the FCS and into the FBS.

  • @bradhackworth5109
    @bradhackworth5109 Год назад

    Born and raised St. Louisan. I actually wrote several papers about this subject in college. Sports stadiums and arenas DO NOT improve city tourism income. The financial benefit is negligible, there's literally no point in publicly funding these things. Also, even though what Stan Kroenke did was rather sleazy to say the least, he didn't use public funds for Sofi. Probably the best thing anyone in St. Louis would ever say about him.

  • @mitchtellers2547
    @mitchtellers2547 Год назад +3

    The Vikings and Minnesota paying off US Bank Stadium 23 years early feels like a huge contrast compared to all these other cities. And that was all after getting the Wild, Twins, and Gophers much better stadiums, plus a privately-funded MLS stadium.
    Frankly, we needed it...badly. We lost the North Stars because they were stuck in a dilapidated stadium, and all the other teams were forced into playing in the Metrodome. Everyone hated it (Except me, lol).
    Also, speaking of business investments, the whole Dome/US Bank area has been completely transformed since. It used to be a run-down concrete jungle.

    • @FirearmofMutiny
      @FirearmofMutiny Год назад

      You're still paying billions of dollars that you can't hope to pay back, and guess what? None of those teams have won even one championship.
      It won't be long until the Wolves ask for a new arena too, and I'm sure Minnesota will cave again (especially when the team is good for the second time in their existence). They'll get the arena built and then resume sucking like every other team here

    • @mitchtellers2547
      @mitchtellers2547 Год назад

      @@FirearmofMutiny What's your city?

    • @FirearmofMutiny
      @FirearmofMutiny Год назад

      @@mitchtellers2547 St. Paul suburb 😜 but I got out a while ago

    • @mitchtellers2547
      @mitchtellers2547 Год назад

      @@FirearmofMutiny Leave it to another Minnesotan to have the most retarded stadium takes possible, lmao.
      I'd bet you'd try to have the Wolves still play in the Metrodome if you could.
      Doesn't matter how far you try to run...
      You're stuck with us *F O R E V E R.*

  • @Silverlightlive
    @Silverlightlive Год назад

    Thank you, Tree, for re-emphasizing the fact that teams don't attract tourists, nor do concerts or anything else. Thats 80% or more local money, and the rest is comped. Thank you kindly!

  • @appalachianenthusiast9499
    @appalachianenthusiast9499 Год назад +4

    Here's a relatively simple solution for owners to maintain government funding. For the duration of the stadium/arena being open, all parties split profits proportional to how much they spent for construction. Let's say an arena will host both an NHL and NBA team. Let's say this arena will cost $500 million. The NBA team pays $75 million, the NHL team pays $100 million, and the city pays the remaining $325 million. Each party would split profit based on their share of construction costs. In this scenario, the NBA team gets 15%, the NHL team gets 20%, and the city gets 65%. Over several years, each party would more than make up their initial investment.

  • @zeppelin01024
    @zeppelin01024 Год назад +1

    I know this is mainly a Big 4 sports page but Q2 Stadium in Austin, TX was built with private funds for Austin FC in the MLS. That stadium is unbelievable, a template for future soccer (and possibly NFL) stadiums and the citizens have thrown their full support behind the team. I don’t know how most of the Big 4 owners sleep well at night knowing they’re kneecapping the markets they represent considering they’ll make the revenue back tenfold if they put a good product out there.

  • @KarlMalowned32
    @KarlMalowned32 Год назад +5

    I am hoping more cities and taxpayers see through the “it’ll be a tourist attraction” trap.
    I would love to see a clause where if a new stadium is built, the team is obligated to stay for 25 years minimum. Props to the owners who pay for the stadium themselves.

    • @otaviofrnazario
      @otaviofrnazario Год назад +4

      that is kind of what Seattle have with the Seahawks. They went after Paul Allen to buy the team and he campaigned to get a deal for nowadays Lumen Field.
      But there is a contract in place that if the teams is sold before april of 2024, 10% of the sale goes to the state of Washington because of their funding and all

  • @lonelychameleon3595
    @lonelychameleon3595 Год назад +1

    A new stadium is like a black hole, warping infrastructure and the local economy around it until it inevitably collapses and leaves only nothing in its wake

  • @gigaenthusiast6140
    @gigaenthusiast6140 Год назад +10

    Voters and politicians need to stop approving of government spending for private ventures. Governments have no responsibility to fund sports teams or any other private company.

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад

      Pittsburghers voted against PNC Park... the mayor then told us we were stupid and gave the team funding anyway. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the populace, and everything to do with the politicians. It doesn't matter if you vote against these proposals, or boycott, or protest... they don't care. They're going to do whatever they need to do so they can get a fat kickback when they leave office.

    • @FirearmofMutiny
      @FirearmofMutiny Год назад

      Let me know how putting the proverbial foot down worked for Oakland

    • @gigaenthusiast6140
      @gigaenthusiast6140 Год назад

      @@FirearmofMutiny If they leave they leave. No city is entitled to any sports franchise or business for that matter. If they stay, they stay. If they leave they leave.

  • @55TheInTIMidator55
    @55TheInTIMidator55 Год назад +1

    Cities should never put up more than 25% of a project’s funding.
    The money doesn’t come back. If a football team wants a stadium, build it or socialize the profit.
    Or piss off.

  • @DrJonLubin
    @DrJonLubin Год назад +23

    I was honestly shocked you didn't mention the Miami Marlins. That was a poster child in absolutely wrong decisions for a ballpark.

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад +3

      It's odd that he started the video talking about buying tickets to PNC Park... but didn't mention that Pittsburghers voted against funding the stadium, but our mayor decided we didn't know what we wanted and decided we would pay for it. PNC Park did not increase revenue in Pittsburgh at all, and now it is already in disrepair and will need to be replaced in the next decade. And even though it will have long since been replaced, my grandchildren (who haven't even been born yet) will still be paying more in taxes to pay off the park.

    • @DrJonLubin
      @DrJonLubin Год назад

      @@kenfresno2125 hey, that's miami's story! Except we immediately recalled (88%!) our mayor and shamed him hard

    • @DrJonLubin
      @DrJonLubin Год назад +3

      In floridaman fashion he was later arrested for domestic battery towards his girlfriend.

    • @kenfresno2125
      @kenfresno2125 Год назад

      @@DrJonLubin That's awesome. Unfortunately I live in a city of drunk liberal sissies, so they let lefty politicians do whatever they want. That same mayor who forced PNC Park on us then sold off literally every service that made the city money right before he left office, so he could pretend his last year in office was profitable.

    • @i_i8924
      @i_i8924 Год назад

      When the Florida Marlins get non-needed stadium on top of the Miami Hurricanes' historic only stadium.. makes sense. Hurricanes still don't have their own stadium, let alone in the city of Miami (No, the Broward County border doesn't count).

  • @srschriver
    @srschriver Год назад +1

    I'm glad that the Sim City 3000 soundtrack is finally in the public domain

  • @kingkeston1847
    @kingkeston1847 Год назад +9

    “Furries.”
    - Andrew McCutchen

  • @Kq347
    @Kq347 Год назад +1

    This is one of the nice things about living in Green Bay, the team will never move, because of the history and lack of a greedy owner wanting to move to a bigger market.

  • @SirDawkster
    @SirDawkster Год назад +24

    Sweet, a Tree video right after my therapy session.

    • @whydoesthischannelexist421
      @whydoesthischannelexist421 Год назад +11

      epic

    • @king_ltc_
      @king_ltc_ Год назад +10

      Based therapy participant

    • @djtrankilo231
      @djtrankilo231 Год назад +4

      A Tree video is better than any therapy session, in my opinion. I can attest, as I discovered Tree after I concluded my counseling sessions.

    • @bennamstyle6214
      @bennamstyle6214 Год назад +4

      Hope you’re doing well! Whatever’s happening, everything will be fine.

    • @SirDawkster
      @SirDawkster Год назад

      ​@@bennamstyle6214Thank you, friend.

  • @kirbyr558
    @kirbyr558 Год назад +5

    The fans need to be willing to let a team leave without going after politicians.

    • @Zach-mw5so
      @Zach-mw5so Год назад

      San Diego pretty much did that despite offering the Chargers money to stay. It wasn’t enough though

  • @LordPichuPal
    @LordPichuPal Год назад

    I do remember when Mike Illitch decided to build Little Caesar's Arena in downtown, because he felt Joe Louis was starting to show its age and the Pistons were playing out in Auburn Hills (roughly 40 minutes away from the city, which was not convenient for fans), and he saw how bad the city of Detroit was hurting. I don't know what the split was on that, but I know his plan was for it to help rebuild a few districts of downtown Detroit with the hope that the construction jobs and new residential areas and businesses would help attract people to come back to the city. I assume he covered most of it (no idea if he did all of it himself or not), because he cared about the city and about giving his team a home he felt they deserved, because he was actually from Detroit. Unfortunately he died a few months before the construction finished so he never got to see his dream stadium completed, but it's a nice having all 4 of our teams close together downtown.
    Seeing this reminded me of that whole process, and how rare it is to get an owner who cares enough about their city and their teams to willingly throw whatever it takes to make the team succeed or find a way to help the city in return. A shame there can't be more owners who actually shell out more of the cost when they want a new stadium, it's ridiculous that you make millions (sometimes billions) owning a team and running whatever other businesses they do, yet you want the poor common folks to pay for your playground instead so you can keep getting richer. Greed is a terrible thing.

  • @xViperGTR
    @xViperGTR Год назад +6

    The Sports world is so corrupt and it’s sad

  • @The_Frozen_1
    @The_Frozen_1 Год назад

    Can we take a second to appreciate the Metal Gear Solid music at 11:30 ? Well played Tree!

  • @superninja252
    @superninja252 Год назад +7

    The only thing that will make this to stop is go full euro mode and adopt 50+1 in ALL professional teams in USA, i doubt the Fans that have Club Membership would vote for recolocation