I would love to hear a "Double Eagle" episode! It has similar vibes and worldbuilding to "Titanicus", but with a whole different take on wwarfare in 40K (flyers). I think you would like it!
@ArbitorIan Bastard Scale Update! Lucius: 27 Fabius: "blown up the scale"/contested by Ian Erebus: 12 Guard (Titanicus):10 The Lion: 9 Bequa: 9 Fulgrim: 8.5 Wsoric the Demon: 8 Ptolemy? (Titanicus bad guy) - 8 Brynngar Sturmdreng: 7 Julius EC: 6 Augminatus Rex (Titan): 6 Zadkiel: 5.5 Marius EC: 5.5 Solomon EC: 3 Everyone else in Descent of Angels: 3 Shockroaches:2 Iacton Cruze: 1 Thanks for remembering to specify the numbers! Love you guys!❤
Another fun little touch for the gardner is that he comments stuff like "clockwise 40 degrees, ahead quarter" and you just think its part of the whole brain-fried-from-forced-removal thing, but then you realize that he's effectively piloting his own body like he was piloting a titan. I think the "shock-roaches" are her name/description for some variety of skitarii, since she's never really seen one before. She thinks the friendly one trying to find the wounded princeps is an enemy later in the book because it just looks like another mechanical monstrosity.
I bought this one off Audible by mistake! Clicked the "buy with credit" button instead of "sample". Do not regret it at all, one of my favorite 40k listens. May check "Double Eagle" as well based off the recommendation, then "Steel Tread", and my guard fix will be satiated for now.
About the Omnissiah question. I give you this, said by a Man of Iron in the short story "Man of Iron" by Guy Haley. "‘I demand you desist,’ the magos said when his technological arts failed him. ‘Stand down, machine, by the Machine-God and the Omnissiah! Stop, stop, stop!’ he pleaded. ‘You know nothing of either,’ said UR-025. ‘I have met the Omnissiah. The actual one, not the Earthling corpse. He would find you extremely disappointing.’" I still think that emperor had his grubby fingers in there somewhere. Something something Void Dragon, etc.
This is one of my favorite 40k books. The world building, like the PDF characters surviving, and the purpose of the Halts, all of it was something I wasn't expecting to be completely absorbed into. This is another one of those book stories that I can't help but think would be a wonderful source material for a live action adaptation (preferably a limited series).
I like the really-eager-to-die Skitarii. "Hold on I've got grenades!" "Great, how far will that get us?" "15.4 meters" "Um...thanks for your input, great teamwork, maybe we'll just sneak in over there."
It’s so cool watching you two banter about these books….keep up the great work. I read this one ages ago and remember liking it a lot, cool to stroll down Titanicus memory lane
One of my favourite BL novels, and in my opinion an even better introduction to the 40k universe than the Eisenhorn books. With Eisenhorn I can see a 'novice' finishing it and asking "Wait a minute - isn't 40k that thing with 'there is only war'? Where's the war in this?" Titanicus on the other hand pretty much got it all: War, politics, the lives of the little people, the totalitarian Imperium, the weirdness of the Mechanicum, hints of the Horus Heresy - the only thing missing from this are Space Marines, and while I enjoy well-written Space Marines whenever I find them, I don't miss them in this at all.
I found myself remembering Mike Brooks' Brutal Kunin' and the bit where the Orks break into the crew section of a Titan and clobber them all. Their squig kills the Princeps and is known as "Princess" from then on...
I imagine a princeps retains more of the standard Human template to "feel" more immersed with the Titan. As all Titan's are built to the general Humanoid body plan. So moving his left arms feels more natural to move the Titan's arm with it. Even if they don't flail about like a Pacific Rim pilot team.
I've absolutely seen a few people on Instagram who apply gold leaf to their minis. Some golden Custodes and Lizardmen in particular. Very enjoyable Book Club as usual!
I think both of you would like Horus Heresy novel Titan Death by Guy Haley. It prominently features an all female Titan Legion and is really well written. I imagine Guy reached out to Dan for advice and whatnot when he wrote this book.
Eisenhorn's an Inquisitor, he's definitely a bad guy. Wonderfully compelling, but don't forget the daemonhost bondage cupboard he kept in his office. Every villain is the hero of their own story.
Eisenhorn sacrificed souls because of his own vain journey to understand things he shouldn't. He was also a massive dickhead and enslaved people. Emperor fucked up the crusade so badly he plunged humanity into a massive civil war. Incompetence on a grand scale makes you a bad guy.
Only counter example that immediately comes to mind is Eldrad Ulthran, tries to warn the Emperor about the Heresy in advance but gets ignored because "Xenos", then tries to warn Fulgrim as the Heresy is starting but gets rejected again. The world of 40k would be a much better place if people would just listen to Eldrad Ulthran (especially since Slaanesh would have been killed)
Gaah! I'm so annoyed at myself for never even having considered the Emperor having Bene Gesserit'd the Omnissiah! It's so bloomin' obvious he'd do that.
@@eater_of_garbage_ it was more to keep it simple for none naval folk. The none naval people will have no clue about the differences between a Queen Elizabeth, Iowa, Yamato or a US Standard.
In case it's not already been said, The Exodite has a great titan v Tau scene as far as I remember. Great vid as ever, it's lovely to get mira's blow-by-blow videos with Dan too!
@Mira Manga If you want to see Warhounds and an Imperator Titan in action defending a hive City under attack - along with a Moderati and an awesome female Princeps - then you really need to read (or watch) HELSREACH.
Your guys book report inspired me to go and pick up my old copy and re-read it again. I only read it once and I did enjoy it, but I forgot a lot of the details.
@@miramanga Alert level RED, Mira! There are spoilers that you've been trying to avoid in several other comments! (Notably not in this one, but since I saw you comment here, I figured I'd try to tag you before you see any sequestered data elsewhere) Recommend flank-pace aft!
It's the only W40K book I've read, I had a good time reading it but it's been a while, so I've been like Ian for the whole episode, remembering details as Mira was going through the plot, it was great!
Oh hey, I was wondering if you were going to cover this one. I enjoyed this book well enough, myself. It does the thing that Abnett does, where there lots of little likable characters that you end up having some attachment to, and then Abnett is... ya know. Abnett. If you know, you know. It wasn't one of my favorites though, because it's much more character-focused and doesn't really sell the idea of these massive, ancient, horrifying death machines as hard as I wanted. Also I have a quibble with the portions that have the retired princeps and the toy-maker in them. They were fun but they just didn't serve the story at large. It reminds me of something Mark Rosewater (former TV writer, current designer for Magic: the Gathering): "No scene is worth a movie, no line is worth a scene. That means no matter how good a scene is, if it's not serving the movie, it has to go. Likewise, no matter how good a line is, if it doesn't serve the scene it's in, it has to go." Those bits didn't serve the book. They should have been cut. It is a good book though, and I still recommend it. It just wasn't exactly what I wanted.
I'd be curious to hear what book you found that gives a better depiction of Titan combat. Mechanicum is oft-lauded in that regard, but I remember being thoroughly disappointed with the offhanded and transitory accounts of engine war in that book. Edit: tone check. Rereading my comment, it sounds kinda snide and that's not the way it was intended. Not sure how to clean it up to sound better, but I genuinely would like to hear what you think.
Yay! After my day I needed some Mira energy, this was grand. However, I have failed my Save vs. Pedantry, and so must note: at one point you say something like "he's another infantry guy, and he has a tank called Queen B****." Which is perfectly clear and understandable for the purposes of this video - just make sure you don't call a real-life tanker "infantry." They will not be amused. :) thanks for making my day better!
I just finished this book for the first time! Dan Abnett is so good at juggling all the different characters and makes you care about them. Also the titan names are so awesome! Invictus Antagonistes and Dominatus Victrix! I cared a bit less about the schizm part, I just wanted them to beat the crap out of chaos titans.
There is one Warhammer + animation with titans (the Exodite). There are a pair of Warlords and a pair of Eldar Titans, as well as a Tau Manta. They appear pretty briefly, though they all put up a good performance (except the poor Manta). You also see Titans in the Horus Heresy trailer.
Doesn't the Emperor-Omnisaiah debate largely get resolved in "Mechanicum" when it's revealed that the Emperor seeded Mars with the tech support group along with required lore so they'd be primed and ready when he needed them?
First: I propose that the Bastard Scale is renamed to the Erebus scale so that there is a point of reference, I cannot think of anyone more fitting. Second: Milk AFTER the tea? Such hogwash! I bet you put the cereal in after you've poured the water into the bowl too!
I don't think Mira gets that the Princeps in the garden has his brain fried from his work, worse than a lobotomy. He's a victim of his profession, same as everyone. It's really sad. The Warlords on the cover look so much better than any other depiction. I think of them when I imagine what they look like.
RE: The origin of the Omnissiah The Emperor definitely pulled a bene gesserit. Spoilers for 'Mechanicum' - The Emperor's motivation “The Emperor sees things we do not,” said Semyon. “He knows the future and he guides us towards it. A nudge here, seeding a prepared prophecy of his coming there, the beginnings of the transhumanist movement, the push from humanity’s understanding of science to its mastery….all of it by his design, working towards one glorious union in the future where the forges of Mars would perceive the Emperor as the divinity for whom they had been waiting for centuries.” “You mean the Emperor orchestrated the evolution of the Mechanicum?” “Of course,” said Semyon. “He knew that one day he would need such a mighty organisation to serve him, and from the Dragon’s dreams came the first machines of the priests of Mars. Without the Dragon there would have been no Mechanicum, and without the Mechanicum, the Emperor’s grand dream of a united galaxy for Humanity would have withered on the vine.” Purely from a logistical viewpoint the Imperium and Mechanicum need each other to survive in a 40k universe, thus the lie must be maintained. Religiously we know belief is power, 10k years of fanaticism has made it real anyway, with the Mechanicum flavored miracles we see in 40k+ being sourced from the Emperors divinity not some outside entity. Spoilers for the 'Lords of Mars' trilogy - Where is the 'Dragon' now? This is expanded upon with the existence of the C'tan Shard (Likely the Void Dragon) captured on Mars being a kind of open secret amongst the highest ranking magos. "‘I suspect no one knows the full extent of what lies beneath the Noctis Labyrinthus, but as an archmagos I was privy to the old legends circulating the higher echelons of the Cult Mechanicus, of course. Unfounded speculation mostly, noospheric gossip and the like. And since the word of those… crescent-moon xenos ships landing in the deepest valleys began to circulate, the rumours have only grown stronger.’"
My favorite part of this, alongside the Forges of Mars series is showing the bizarre interpolitics and culture of the Mechanicus Edit: Reavers ARE better!!
You have to have a certain amount of focus on the "ground level" people to make the scale of titans matter. Otherwise they could be ratling/hobbit sized, if it's only titan against titan.
I'm not going to lie, the Gunbuster March has been playing involuntarily in my head since you started describing the Titan fight, and bringing in the models did *not* help that.
I agree that the current reaver is better than the current warlord, because yeah, I don't like the Mars pattern warlord either. I like the Lucius pattern warlord though. But yeah, the Mars warlord makes me kinda hope they never remake the Imperator, because that model got me into 40k and I think they'll muck it up
Perfectly timed, I just finished the audiobook and I really enjoyed this book. Starts a little slow with all the main characters but it was really nice to see all these POVs and how these people were effected by the war. Really made it feel more real by having glimpses into the everyday life of the citizens and made those scenes with the titans so impactful. Plus it felt a lil bit less great man theory compared to most of warhammer's lore.
@@enochianwolf Great man theory is silly and an oversimplified world view that doesn't account for all the unseen factors that influence how societies develop & interact.
@@enochianwolf What I'm talking about when I say unseen forces is stuff like logistics, culture, faith, manufacturing, economics, agriculture and great man history would reduce all these factors to nothing and place credit on one genius. Example: Winston Churchill is often considered a significant figure who helped win the 2nd world war, a great man reading of history would focus on his aims and goals and note how these would later be *mostly* accomplished. However this would completely ignore the hardwork of engineers for britain's manufacturing, the readiness of british civilians for war and the home front, the daring of british forces and the monumental logistics efforts to get supplies where they needed to go. The millions of british people who worked hard and sacrificed so much during the war all played a part in the UK's outcome at the end of the war, however in great man theory all of them become the backdrop to a single person's story.
@@enochianwolfWe are having two different conversations, I'm not talking about people being products of their times or tearing down statues. I'm talking about how great man theory reduces the accomplishments of very many talented people to just a singular person. Sure singular inventors are the primary person of interest with their invention however I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about how great man theory misrepresents entire historical situations by focusing on key "characters" i.e. Leonidas, FDR, Alexander The Great, Hannibal Barca.
@@enochianwolfLook, I'm talking about how focus being placed on characters like Leonidas or FDR gives you a misguided & incorrect understanding of how the events happened. Case in point, Leonidas' sacrifice was a tiny event of the 2nd Persian invasion of Greece. There were Greek alliances forged, battles lost and won where people died in their thousands, guerilla attacks against Persian occupiers however most people will only hear about leonidas. The reason I bring up Churchill is not because I think he doesn't deserve any credit (He did a lot wrong) but because WW2 is an example of a well documented historical event where we can see the perspectives of many people and their stories. If you want to learn about WW2, we should spend less time talking about the personalities of FDR and Churchill and more time on what it was like to live through it. You can learn so much more about WW2 by reading accounts of US medics in the pacific, tankers in north africa, Indian infantry fighting in Monte Casino. This is true for all of history Btw why are you shitting on modern historians lmao?
from memory wasnt the way they "solved" the schism because someone was like "this could be fabricated!" then showed off a photoshopped image? then everyone was like "oh yeah this doesnt prove anything nvm" and stopped shooting
"There are no Gods in 40k" Hm, the Eldar have 2 and 2 halves (Isha and Cegorach as the two, Khaine and Ynnead as the halves since they're both diminished) Admittedly Khaine and Cegorach are both kind of dicks, but Isha is probably one of the kindest entities in the setting (which is why she's been trapped in Nurgle's realm for the past 10,000 years), but there's not really any sort of implication that she's actually lost power over the years
As a counterpoint, I love me a bit of titan-battle action in books. Titandeath is in my top 5 heresy novels. and was somewhat disappointed that a: there was a lot less in Mortis that i was expecting. and then b: The imperator Deis Irae., the crew of which we spend a lot of time with in Galaxy in Flames, and is on the cover of the book, barely features at all.
There is a GW cartoon about Titans that is worth finding. Only a couple short fight scenes as it was mostly about the familia history of the preceps. I wanna say that the family runs 3 Titans at the beginning of the episode, maybe 2 smaller ones and one larger but all 3 could have been smaller Titans. Been a minute since I watched it.
Titans are a very interesting and fun part of the setting, and I enjoy reading about them more than Astartes. Also, James M. Hewitt did a bang up job with the rules for Adeptus Titanicus, and I'm very optimistic about the imminent Fallout Factions game he's doing with Modiphius - he seems like one of the stars of the current generation of UK game designers. Anyway, does Mira or Ian have any titans (at whatever scale, but probably epic)? Have you messed around with the games at that scale at all? EDIT: Now that I got a chance to watch it all the way through I see Ian's Adeptus Titanicus/Legions Imperialis scale stuff. Nice.
@@miramanga I think it's like $170 (or whatever that is in Tory-inflated British currency) for the Adeptus Titanicus starter, which comes with 4 titans, not counting the knights.
That Emperor bloke sounds like a bit of a hypocrite... First, he bangs on that there are no gods, the Imperial Truth, and eventually sanctions the Word Bearers for erecting statues to him, but when he meets the Mech guys on Mars he goes "I am your god"... Whot an opportunist!!
I love that it's a sabbat world set book but you two need to get back to the mainline gaunts ghosts so I can have others experience my abbbet character death related grief
Spoilers below: . . . . . . . . . . . . . I thought the omnissiah was a ‘star dragon’ Necron star muncher thing that was buried deep in Mars? Possibly by the Emperor though after he beat it at cards, so technically he is omnissiah by proxy? I’m sure it was all much simpler in 1990!
I watch these for Mira's cheery disposition. It creates an odd juxtaposition with the grimdark future.
"When you see a titan just imagine a naked guy floating in a tank." Sounds like stage fright advice gone horribly wrong.
I would never feel more confident
Sounds like some Friday nights out I had in my youth
Titanicus is peak mecha fiction. There's not a lot of it out there, but Titanicus stands at the top.
I would love to hear a "Double Eagle" episode! It has similar vibes and worldbuilding to "Titanicus", but with a whole different take on wwarfare in 40K (flyers). I think you would like it!
‘How many walks is this for you Prinzhorn?’
‘38…. Simulated’
"...comin around for a seven-zero-niner..." 😜
Jumps to Aliens
"How many combat drops"
‘I feel like a third wheel, is there anything I can do?’
‘I dunno is there anything you can do?’
‘Well I can drive that Warhound.’
‘I feel like a third wheel around here is there anything I can do?’
‘I dunno is there anything you can do?’
‘Well I can drive that Imperator.’
"I'm picking up some hull ionization."
"Rotate Void Shields".
@ArbitorIan Bastard Scale Update!
Lucius: 27
Fabius: "blown up the scale"/contested by Ian
Erebus: 12
Guard (Titanicus):10
The Lion: 9
Bequa: 9
Fulgrim: 8.5
Wsoric the Demon: 8
Ptolemy? (Titanicus bad guy) - 8
Brynngar Sturmdreng: 7
Julius EC: 6
Augminatus Rex (Titan): 6
Zadkiel: 5.5
Marius EC: 5.5
Solomon EC: 3
Everyone else in Descent of Angels: 3
Shockroaches:2
Iacton Cruze: 1
Thanks for remembering to specify the numbers! Love you guys!❤
My favorite part is when the Princeps Majorus is arguing with the dead princeps of the past. And everyone is looking at him weirdly.
That was great
Another fun little touch for the gardner is that he comments stuff like "clockwise 40 degrees, ahead quarter" and you just think its part of the whole brain-fried-from-forced-removal thing, but then you realize that he's effectively piloting his own body like he was piloting a titan.
I think the "shock-roaches" are her name/description for some variety of skitarii, since she's never really seen one before. She thinks the friendly one trying to find the wounded princeps is an enemy later in the book because it just looks like another mechanical monstrosity.
The Skitarii just looking at them asking “You thought I was the enemy?” and them just fully admitting yes.
This is my fav Dan Abnett book - I even got him to sign it once
It's such a good story, and is great as it's so self contained.
Love it.
I bought this one off Audible by mistake! Clicked the "buy with credit" button instead of "sample". Do not regret it at all, one of my favorite 40k listens. May check "Double Eagle" as well based off the recommendation, then "Steel Tread", and my guard fix will be satiated for now.
About the Omnissiah question. I give you this, said by a Man of Iron in the short story "Man of Iron" by Guy Haley.
"‘I demand you desist,’ the magos said when his technological arts failed him. ‘Stand down, machine, by the Machine-God and the Omnissiah! Stop, stop, stop!’ he pleaded.
‘You know nothing of either,’ said UR-025. ‘I have met the Omnissiah. The actual one, not the Earthling corpse. He would find you extremely disappointing.’"
I still think that emperor had his grubby fingers in there somewhere. Something something Void Dragon, etc.
This is one of my favorite 40k books. The world building, like the PDF characters surviving, and the purpose of the Halts, all of it was something I wasn't expecting to be completely absorbed into.
This is another one of those book stories that I can't help but think would be a wonderful source material for a live action adaptation (preferably a limited series).
I like the really-eager-to-die Skitarii.
"Hold on I've got grenades!"
"Great, how far will that get us?"
"15.4 meters"
"Um...thanks for your input, great teamwork, maybe we'll just sneak in over there."
@@enochianwolfthey're awesome, so much more fun than Admech in game
""I have a grenade launcher," he said proudly." I've always loved that bit.
Eisenhorn does a fantastic chapter featuring a Chaos Titan. You feel the fear and dread coming off the page as it starts up.
As an American, I found Ian's American accent to be loads entirely better than John Grammaticus's voice in the audio books. Well done.
That accent made me give up on the seige
It’s so cool watching you two banter about these books….keep up the great work. I read this one ages ago and remember liking it a lot, cool to stroll down Titanicus memory lane
One of my favourite BL novels, and in my opinion an even better introduction to the 40k universe than the Eisenhorn books. With Eisenhorn I can see a 'novice' finishing it and asking "Wait a minute - isn't 40k that thing with 'there is only war'? Where's the war in this?"
Titanicus on the other hand pretty much got it all: War, politics, the lives of the little people, the totalitarian Imperium, the weirdness of the Mechanicum, hints of the Horus Heresy - the only thing missing from this are Space Marines, and while I enjoy well-written Space Marines whenever I find them, I don't miss them in this at all.
I found myself remembering Mike Brooks' Brutal Kunin' and the bit where the Orks break into the crew section of a Titan and clobber them all. Their squig kills the Princeps and is known as "Princess" from then on...
"He's a bastard, because yeah, all the little titans! And you think, yay! And then he's like DUH DUH DUH. He's horrible."😆
I was NOT ready for Ian’s American accent. Bone-chilling.
It gave me chills too!
Did you catch the reference to the old ‘Titan’ graphic novel when the old princeps is mistaking crew with people from his past? Dan likes a deep cut.
I imagine a princeps retains more of the standard Human template to "feel" more immersed with the Titan. As all Titan's are built to the general Humanoid body plan. So moving his left arms feels more natural to move the Titan's arm with it. Even if they don't flail about like a Pacific Rim pilot team.
I've absolutely seen a few people on Instagram who apply gold leaf to their minis. Some golden Custodes and Lizardmen in particular. Very enjoyable Book Club as usual!
I think both of you would like Horus Heresy novel Titan Death by Guy Haley. It prominently features an all female Titan Legion and is really well written. I imagine Guy reached out to Dan for advice and whatnot when he wrote this book.
They’ll get to it in a few years lol
I'm so excited for you guys to talk about Mechanicum! There's so much great stuff in there about the titans and tech priests.
30:40 ‘if your name begins with an E in 40K you’re a bad guy’
Enhort ✅
Egan ✅
Erebus ✅
Eidolon ✅
Eisenhorn?
Emperor?
Eisenhorn's an Inquisitor, he's definitely a bad guy. Wonderfully compelling, but don't forget the daemonhost bondage cupboard he kept in his office.
Every villain is the hero of their own story.
Eisenhorn sacrificed souls because of his own vain journey to understand things he shouldn't. He was also a massive dickhead and enslaved people. Emperor fucked up the crusade so badly he plunged humanity into a massive civil war. Incompetence on a grand scale makes you a bad guy.
Only counter example that immediately comes to mind is Eldrad Ulthran, tries to warn the Emperor about the Heresy in advance but gets ignored because "Xenos", then tries to warn Fulgrim as the Heresy is starting but gets rejected again. The world of 40k would be a much better place if people would just listen to Eldrad Ulthran (especially since Slaanesh would have been killed)
If you read Pandorax --- Epimetheus?
A princeps in their tank reminds me of the navigators in Lynch's Dune. Normal people certainly have a WTH moment.
Gaah! I'm so annoyed at myself for never even having considered the Emperor having Bene Gesserit'd the Omnissiah! It's so bloomin' obvious he'd do that.
Yay ! Titanicus Book Club Vid. ❤
Titan's analogs for WWII warships. Warhound=Destroyer. Reiver=Heavy Cruiser. Warlord=Battlecruiser. Imperator=Battleship.
Warlords and Imperators would just be battleships of different tonnage, and I'd argue Reavers would be battlecruisers
@@eater_of_garbage_ it was more to keep it simple for none naval folk. The none naval people will have no clue about the differences between a Queen Elizabeth, Iowa, Yamato or a US Standard.
@@eater_of_garbage_ With your handle. You must be a hiver that lives off Corpse Starch...and likes it :D
In case it's not already been said, The Exodite has a great titan v Tau scene as far as I remember.
Great vid as ever, it's lovely to get mira's blow-by-blow videos with Dan too!
I love the book club series! These are great fun. Please keep it going. ❤
Was confusing and overwhelming at first but eventually got really into it, especially when the Revelation came to light.
21:30 you reminded me Elliot presenting E.T. his star wars action figures.
"This is Greedo, and then this is hammerhead..."
My absolute favorite 40k novel, so glad you guys did this!
MILK BEFORE TEA?!! CREAM BEFORE JAM???!!! HERESY!! *condemns Dorset to Exterminatus*
Plot summary: Mechanicus are sneaky gitz
My favorite Warhammer novel. I read it before i even knew Warhammer. Amazing
@Mira Manga If you want to see Warhounds and an Imperator Titan in action defending a hive City under attack - along with a Moderati and an awesome female Princeps - then you really need to read (or watch) HELSREACH.
Your guys book report inspired me to go and pick up my old copy and re-read it again. I only read it once and I did enjoy it, but I forgot a lot of the details.
😂 book report
@@miramanga Alert level RED, Mira! There are spoilers that you've been trying to avoid in several other comments! (Notably not in this one, but since I saw you comment here, I figured I'd try to tag you before you see any sequestered data elsewhere)
Recommend flank-pace aft!
@@ulfgard4734 yes I noticed I’m trying to be careful!!
It's the only W40K book I've read, I had a good time reading it but it's been a while, so I've been like Ian for the whole episode, remembering details as Mira was going through the plot, it was great!
„Double Eagle” next? Dan Abnett for life! 😊
Oh hey, I was wondering if you were going to cover this one. I enjoyed this book well enough, myself. It does the thing that Abnett does, where there lots of little likable characters that you end up having some attachment to, and then Abnett is... ya know. Abnett. If you know, you know.
It wasn't one of my favorites though, because it's much more character-focused and doesn't really sell the idea of these massive, ancient, horrifying death machines as hard as I wanted. Also I have a quibble with the portions that have the retired princeps and the toy-maker in them. They were fun but they just didn't serve the story at large. It reminds me of something Mark Rosewater (former TV writer, current designer for Magic: the Gathering):
"No scene is worth a movie, no line is worth a scene. That means no matter how good a scene is, if it's not serving the movie, it has to go. Likewise, no matter how good a line is, if it doesn't serve the scene it's in, it has to go."
Those bits didn't serve the book. They should have been cut. It is a good book though, and I still recommend it. It just wasn't exactly what I wanted.
You get a view of the Walk from Zink, and see the effects of the unrest with Zember…
I'd be curious to hear what book you found that gives a better depiction of Titan combat.
Mechanicum is oft-lauded in that regard, but I remember being thoroughly disappointed with the offhanded and transitory accounts of engine war in that book.
Edit: tone check. Rereading my comment, it sounds kinda snide and that's not the way it was intended. Not sure how to clean it up to sound better, but I genuinely would like to hear what you think.
Yay! After my day I needed some Mira energy, this was grand.
However, I have failed my Save vs. Pedantry, and so must note: at one point you say something like "he's another infantry guy, and he has a tank called Queen B****." Which is perfectly clear and understandable for the purposes of this video - just make sure you don't call a real-life tanker "infantry." They will not be amused. :)
thanks for making my day better!
You two are my favorite sci-fi WH youtube bookclub english nerds broadcasting from Britain. Feel free to remove whichever qualifiers you wish.
The Emperor is NOT the Omnisiah, he tricked the inhabitants of Mara into believing he was 😅
"Assasinorum King Maker"
I'd recommend.
If you want some more titan fluff with the intrigue and without " BIGBOT GO PEW PEW PEW"!
After a long day of purging heretical Titans, I like to kick back in my nutritive jelly jacuzzi and watch some ecclesiarchal sermons
There’s a very good bit in one of the warhammer tv things - exodite -where a warlord titan fights a tau army
I just finished this book for the first time! Dan Abnett is so good at juggling all the different characters and makes you care about them. Also the titan names are so awesome! Invictus Antagonistes and Dominatus Victrix! I cared a bit less about the schizm part, I just wanted them to beat the crap out of chaos titans.
There is one Warhammer + animation with titans (the Exodite). There are a pair of Warlords and a pair of Eldar Titans, as well as a Tau Manta. They appear pretty briefly, though they all put up a good performance (except the poor Manta).
You also see Titans in the Horus Heresy trailer.
This was great, Mira shouldn't be so hard on herself, she lead very well!
Doesn't the Emperor-Omnisaiah debate largely get resolved in "Mechanicum" when it's revealed that the Emperor seeded Mars with the tech support group along with required lore so they'd be primed and ready when he needed them?
This is my favorite book of all time from 40k.
First: I propose that the Bastard Scale is renamed to the Erebus scale so that there is a point of reference, I cannot think of anyone more fitting.
Second: Milk AFTER the tea? Such hogwash! I bet you put the cereal in after you've poured the water into the bowl too!
WATER
I don't think Mira gets that the Princeps in the garden has his brain fried from his work, worse than a lobotomy. He's a victim of his profession, same as everyone. It's really sad.
The Warlords on the cover look so much better than any other depiction. I think of them when I imagine what they look like.
Great dynamic duo!❤
Agree!!
Here's a bigger question for Mira.. Is the Emperor actually the 5th Chaos God? :) The titan bits in Betrayer are good.
Recently listened to the audiobook loved this one
RE: The origin of the Omnissiah
The Emperor definitely pulled a bene gesserit.
Spoilers for 'Mechanicum' - The Emperor's motivation
“The Emperor sees things we do not,” said Semyon. “He knows the future and he guides us towards it. A nudge here, seeding a prepared prophecy of his coming there, the beginnings of the transhumanist movement, the push from humanity’s understanding of science to its mastery….all of it by his design, working towards one glorious union in the future where the forges of Mars would perceive the Emperor as the divinity for whom they had been waiting for centuries.”
“You mean the Emperor orchestrated the evolution of the Mechanicum?”
“Of course,” said Semyon. “He knew that one day he would need such a mighty organisation to serve him, and from the Dragon’s dreams came the first machines of the priests of Mars. Without the Dragon there would have been no Mechanicum, and without the Mechanicum, the Emperor’s grand dream of a united galaxy for Humanity would have withered on the vine.”
Purely from a logistical viewpoint the Imperium and Mechanicum need each other to survive in a 40k universe, thus the lie must be maintained. Religiously we know belief is power, 10k years of fanaticism has made it real anyway, with the Mechanicum flavored miracles we see in 40k+ being sourced from the Emperors divinity not some outside entity.
Spoilers for the 'Lords of Mars' trilogy - Where is the 'Dragon' now?
This is expanded upon with the existence of the C'tan Shard (Likely the Void Dragon) captured on Mars being a kind of open secret amongst the highest ranking magos.
"‘I suspect no one knows the full extent of what lies beneath the Noctis Labyrinthus, but as an archmagos I was privy to the old legends circulating the higher echelons of the Cult Mechanicus, of course. Unfounded speculation mostly, noospheric gossip and the like. And since the word of those… crescent-moon xenos ships landing in the deepest valleys began to circulate, the rumours have only grown stronger.’"
This is one of the few books i kept on my shelf from 40k. Checkout the gothic war book... space combat in 40k. Its great
I definitely remember someone on Reddit gold-plating a Custodes
My favorite part of this, alongside the Forges of Mars series is showing the bizarre interpolitics and culture of the Mechanicus
Edit: Reavers ARE better!!
You have to have a certain amount of focus on the "ground level" people to make the scale of titans matter. Otherwise they could be ratling/hobbit sized, if it's only titan against titan.
That’s what Dan Abnett said in the interview on Mira’s channel!
@@HistoritorJimaldus Did he? I hope I wasn't just regurgitating what he said without thinking haha. Here I thought I had some basic insight.
Ian and Mira: the intro was good Ian, but from now on, please leave the intro summary to Mira. She does them really well.
If you looking for good titan footage, I think the titan from helsreach is one of the best depictions and a really cool female princeps.
I enjoyed this! Really want to read the book now!
I, a rando internet person, would certainly encourage it. This has been my favorite 40k novel for well over a decade now.
I don't care what they say, size does matter, bigger the better. Give me the biggest Titan with the most guns.
I think Mira agrees, 6mm scale titans weren’t enough lol 😂
@@HistoritorJimaldus Mira standing on the battle grid in full Imperator cosplay: "Look at me- I'm the Titan now."
Nice job Mira!
I was so confused for five minutes thinking “this isn’t the plot of Mechanicus”
I'm not going to lie, the Gunbuster March has been playing involuntarily in my head since you started describing the Titan fight, and bringing in the models did *not* help that.
THE EMPORER'S CHOOSE DUO ARE BACK TO PREACH THE LORE TO THE MASSES!❤😂🎉
I agree that the current reaver is better than the current warlord, because yeah, I don't like the Mars pattern warlord either. I like the Lucius pattern warlord though.
But yeah, the Mars warlord makes me kinda hope they never remake the Imperator, because that model got me into 40k and I think they'll muck it up
Perfectly timed, I just finished the audiobook and I really enjoyed this book. Starts a little slow with all the main characters but it was really nice to see all these POVs and how these people were effected by the war. Really made it feel more real by having glimpses into the everyday life of the citizens and made those scenes with the titans so impactful. Plus it felt a lil bit less great man theory compared to most of warhammer's lore.
@@enochianwolf Great man theory is silly and an oversimplified world view that doesn't account for all the unseen factors that influence how societies develop & interact.
@@enochianwolf What I'm talking about when I say unseen forces is stuff like logistics, culture, faith, manufacturing, economics, agriculture and great man history would reduce all these factors to nothing and place credit on one genius.
Example:
Winston Churchill is often considered a significant figure who helped win the 2nd world war, a great man reading of history would focus on his aims and goals and note how these would later be *mostly* accomplished.
However this would completely ignore the hardwork of engineers for britain's manufacturing, the readiness of british civilians for war and the home front, the daring of british forces and the monumental logistics efforts to get supplies where they needed to go. The millions of british people who worked hard and sacrificed so much during the war all played a part in the UK's outcome at the end of the war, however in great man theory all of them become the backdrop to a single person's story.
@@enochianwolfWe are having two different conversations, I'm not talking about people being products of their times or tearing down statues.
I'm talking about how great man theory reduces the accomplishments of very many talented people to just a singular person. Sure singular inventors are the primary person of interest with their invention however I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about how great man theory misrepresents entire historical situations by focusing on key "characters" i.e. Leonidas, FDR, Alexander The Great, Hannibal Barca.
@@enochianwolfLook, I'm talking about how focus being placed on characters like Leonidas or FDR gives you a misguided & incorrect understanding of how the events happened. Case in point, Leonidas' sacrifice was a tiny event of the 2nd Persian invasion of Greece. There were Greek alliances forged, battles lost and won where people died in their thousands, guerilla attacks against Persian occupiers however most people will only hear about leonidas.
The reason I bring up Churchill is not because I think he doesn't deserve any credit (He did a lot wrong) but because WW2 is an example of a well documented historical event where we can see the perspectives of many people and their stories. If you want to learn about WW2, we should spend less time talking about the personalities of FDR and Churchill and more time on what it was like to live through it. You can learn so much more about WW2 by reading accounts of US medics in the pacific, tankers in north africa, Indian infantry fighting in Monte Casino. This is true for all of history
Btw why are you shitting on modern historians lmao?
from memory wasnt the way they "solved" the schism because someone was like "this could be fabricated!" then showed off a photoshopped image? then everyone was like "oh yeah this doesnt prove anything nvm" and stopped shooting
"There are no Gods in 40k" Hm, the Eldar have 2 and 2 halves (Isha and Cegorach as the two, Khaine and Ynnead as the halves since they're both diminished)
Admittedly Khaine and Cegorach are both kind of dicks, but Isha is probably one of the kindest entities in the setting (which is why she's been trapped in Nurgle's realm for the past 10,000 years), but there's not really any sort of implication that she's actually lost power over the years
🎉🎉🎉 book club video 🎉🎉🎉
Great review I think this will be my next Audible 👍🏻
Pedicurius Mira, "I'll do the feet!" 😄
As a counterpoint, I love me a bit of titan-battle action in books. Titandeath is in my top 5 heresy novels. and was somewhat disappointed that a: there was a lot less in Mortis that i was expecting. and then b: The imperator Deis Irae., the crew of which we spend a lot of time with in Galaxy in Flames, and is on the cover of the book, barely features at all.
Spoliers!
Just finished it.
I am so sad that Cally didn't get to reunite with Stefan...it was so tragic...
There is a GW cartoon about Titans that is worth finding. Only a couple short fight scenes as it was mostly about the familia history of the preceps. I wanna say that the family runs 3 Titans at the beginning of the episode, maybe 2 smaller ones and one larger but all 3 could have been smaller Titans. Been a minute since I watched it.
You two should try some Battletech novels. They are very character rich and plot driven for a game about big stompy robots
These always catch me unawares! Yey!
Titans are a very interesting and fun part of the setting, and I enjoy reading about them more than Astartes. Also, James M. Hewitt did a bang up job with the rules for Adeptus Titanicus, and I'm very optimistic about the imminent Fallout Factions game he's doing with Modiphius - he seems like one of the stars of the current generation of UK game designers.
Anyway, does Mira or Ian have any titans (at whatever scale, but probably epic)? Have you messed around with the games at that scale at all?
EDIT: Now that I got a chance to watch it all the way through I see Ian's Adeptus Titanicus/Legions Imperialis scale stuff. Nice.
I WANT A TITAN
@@miramanga I think it's like $170 (or whatever that is in Tory-inflated British currency) for the Adeptus Titanicus starter, which comes with 4 titans, not counting the knights.
@@miramangayou have four Titans! ;) two unbuilt - plus one artwork 😂
@@HistoritorJimaldus not a big un
@@terraneaux I want the big one
Great episode btw
Ah brilliant, Titan knickers!
Milk before tea is heresy though, she's right.
She's right.
That Emperor bloke sounds like a bit of a hypocrite...
First, he bangs on that there are no gods, the Imperial Truth, and eventually sanctions the Word Bearers for erecting statues to him, but when he meets the Mech guys on Mars he goes "I am your god"... Whot an opportunist!!
If you want animated titan action the hellsreach animation on RUclips has some good moments inside the stompy robots
scrap shunt and proud here
You're the wrong way round!! Jarring
Love this book so v much
I love that it's a sabbat world set book but you two need to get back to the mainline gaunts ghosts so I can have others experience my abbbet character death related grief
She’s reading Sabbat War now I think, then will talk to Dan about the entire Saint arc
Haven't read this one, thank you.
I SHALL SAY IT AGAIN, A OFF THE CUFF CHEMISTRY THAT IS GREAT TO LISTEN TO......
high marks on the book club
Spoilers below:
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I thought the omnissiah was a ‘star dragon’ Necron star muncher thing that was buried deep in Mars? Possibly by the Emperor though after he beat it at cards, so technically he is omnissiah by proxy? I’m sure it was all much simpler in 1990!
I hate to be "that guy", but Mira's not got that far yet. Could I politely ask you to redact (or indeed just spoiler tag) this?
@@ulfgard4734You are quite correct, you are not that guy. Although how I know this I do not know. Must be by osmosis.
@@paulsyrah Thank you for being so accommodating!
Love this
SCRAPSHUNTS RISE UP
Scraps-hunt or scrap-shunt? 🤔
@@HistoritorJimaldus Yes
You don't like the warlord!!?? Fie upon you!
Please give Peter Fehervari a chance.