Alex, I don't think it's your problem if your video is outdated because they patched the game after your video. The game should've come out in a good state, and your video would be a cautionary reminder to people not to buy games before watching a proper third-party analysis of the product. If a publisher suffers poor sales in the future because of an outdated video, that's on them for releasing it in a poor state.
Yeah gotta agree, I feel like waiting for the “inevitable” early patches is kind of enabling their behavior rather than pushing back against it. I would imagine giving more slack to an indie dev or something is prudent but not as much so to the large publishers who clearly have the resources to ensure a good product at launch
You're 100% not wrong, but there were other reasons for not delivering a day one review too. Alex is working on another video, and only got access to the game during the weekend when he wasn't at work. I think those are valid reasons for not reviewing it yet.
Thank you, Oliver, for actually bringing up the real AIB / Street price of GPUs instead of the MSRPs. People need to stop falling for Nvidia's MSRP numbers, because the vast majority of units sold are AIB models way above that.
I only managed to get an MSRP 5080 by stalking Canada Computers listings and getting lucky with a Zotac model suddenly appearing. The entirety of Canada computers, the largest PC part chain in Canada, at the point I bought the card (last Friday at 5pm) only ever had 9 5080 models in total and 0 5090 models for the whole nation scattered across different stores trickled out. There were only 4 MSRP models out of the 9 5080 models Not even a paper launch, just vapour
@@Merp9 I was so close to buying the Zotac 5080 too, but was just beat by 5 minutes at the Waterloo location lol. It was like $50 over MSRP right, almost nothing... but luckily I was able to get a similar priced PNY backorder from best buy so fingers crossed that comes in a couple of weeks.
@nonameddog I'm at the North York location, was $1499CAD. Especially with the Lunar New Year coming up and affecting factory output, people aren't going to be getting MSRP cards for a long time, if ever Not even factoring the whole trade ware debacle...
Amazing Day One Nvidia drivers ;) I hope situations like these will teach people to stop fanboying or trivialising over brands and studios…I can see a 50/50 fault here between Nixxes testing methodology and Nvidia’s driver team…
@@Nat-yf6ff the game has its slack of issues…especially memory leaks in the VRAM department. But from what I am seeing with my own computers Nvidia was not prepared either…I have less issues on my 7900XTX than on my 3080Ti with RT on. Everyone screws up, and people need to ask more from the companies they give their money to. This is a prima example. With Spider-Man Remastered we had a driver crash for a very long time on my 3080Ti and it was very random, I started thinking something else’s in my system was the problem…10 month after the game release Nixxes fixed it and Nvidia released a complimentary driver… These companies need to sort their shit out and people need to stop supporting fake myths about wonderful ports and wonderful Nvidia software…because that’s what DF is going to say in their delayed review in the conclusions…by omitting an analysis of the current state of the game…
Good on Oliver for calling out what is clearly anti consumer behavior from Nvidia with the pricing, driven by an effective monopoly in the product segment.
How is it a monopoly when 7900XTX exists while 4080/4090/5080/5090 basically don't, it competes favorably with 4080/5080, and it will probably still be AMD's fastest card even after 9070 launches? If lack of consumer awareness/interest of a competing product is the problem then isn't that what DF should be addressing rather than a product that exists only on paper somehow being a monopoly?
@@AFistfulOf4K If you want the top end of gaming graphics right now, high framrate path tracing, Nvidia is the only company that can accomodate that. That's what I meant by monopoly. Personally I think the 7900XTX is a great card, and that path tracing is way overrated for the processing overhead, but the truth is the 7900XTX just doesn't compete in that segment.
@@dark1x We love you John! Take your time to recover! I appreciate keeping us up to date! Thank you for all the awesome content you provide for us! You and DF made my days better! Respect!
As a reviewer, you should be reviewing the game it launched in. Not what it can be protecting the devs but protecting consumers from buying a bad product.
Remember that this is not a game review channel, this is a game rendering/tech review channel. And they've done a great job alerting us about games/products in bad states.
That isn't useful longterm though and it's not practical to redo breakdowns with every major patch. The idea of a quicklook that Richard mentioned to highlight issues with problematic games then maybe a more indepth video later seems reasonable
Still. There were a lot of other non-fan favourite games/devs DF covered regardless of patches coming or not in particular to influence the Devs. And if two weeks from now patches won't come, what then? What about the people who look to DF reporting on issues to make an informed purchase. I think not covering such a big game even to make an addendum later is a miss. Not suggesting they are protecting Nixxes and Insomniac from having their first L but this is not a W for DF as well. Maybe they can do a short "before you buy" vid just signaling the problems in the future.
i like the idea of a DF quick look, maybe even just firing up the game and capturing your reactions and then edit together a summary of the first 30 minutes or something.. no graphs, no rigorous settings testing, just the first impressions the detailed review can come later after a patch or two
That's what they did in this podcast. A quick look highlighting the issues. All they need to do is clip it out of this and upload it as its own video so people who don't watch these get the information.
I'm getting 100% repro crashes on Spider Man 2 at max settings on a 4090 with a 13900K... With the only solution being to disable RT features until I get past this crash, enable RT again and remove it once it re-appears. RT reflections is a huge improvement in that game so that makes it hard to skip... but I've had like more than 30 crashes in 8 hours of play time I'm also seeing inconsistent frame time as reported in your video. They already shipped a small patch yesterday which solved some crash cases but it's not fully fixed at all. It's a shame, we CANNOT get a new big game to ship in acceptable basic conditions right now even with super powerful 24GB GPUs. And they must know this was happening before shipping the game, in that case please devs: delay the game!
These are the reasons I will not be returning to high end PC gaming anytime soon. It’s just not worth the hassle anymore as there are just too many issues within the PC space right now. I’m very happy with the PS5 Pro for the next few years.
I have the same configuration and I get pretty regular crashes. Oddly I seem to get them more frequently during cutscenes than any kind of gameplay, but I've only played for about 3 hours before giving up so it's hard to establish a pattern. It's really frustrating because I expect poor performance from Ubisoft and EA published games (regardless of the developer), and Unreal 5 are obviously a mixed bag at release most of the time, but Nixxes has a really good track record so I thought this would be a solid day 1 purchase. Oh well.
4080 here and also brutal full system reboot crashing. Tried all kinds of settings and it will crash after 15-20 mins. I find this so strange because the miles morales pc port worked just fine. Is the tech in this game really that much different?
I was able to get the game pretty stable (crashes are many hours apart instead of minutes) by rolling back my driver. The latest driver seems to have been the cause of a ton of crashes for me in other games, too, like FF7 Rebirth.
Spider man 2 is out today, yes? So review the product today. Not what it can be or could be. You aren’t a marketing firm, you are a reviewer. If they didn’t want a review in the performance to be bad, then they shouldn’t have released it as such.
The problem is that even if a lot of problems go unfixed, the state that it is now is useless for the majority of people that will buy this game, yet this day one review will appear in everyone's feed when looking for the state of the gsme
The good thing about Forza horizon five being ported to PlayStation is that it will probably reset the clock on the license to music and cars in the game that might ultimately mean the game is available in all stores for much longer than it might have otherwise been. Forza horizon four have recently been delisted. I would imagine this being released on PlayStation five also opens the door for it appearing on switch 2 when that arrives the specs at the very least look like it is more powerful than the Xbox One on which the title also launched as a cross gen release
I don't see the game coming to Nintendo Switch 2 due to a lack of pressure sensitive triggers. On the teaser trailer, the ZL and ZR buttons look identical to the previous console, which weren't Pressure Sensitive. I did try to play Forza Horizon 5 on Cloud Gaming with a Switch Pro Controller. It's hardly playable when ZL and ZR always output 100% pressure and 0% pressure instantaneously with no in-betweens, making certain cars a pain to drive without Traction Control, Launch Control or Throttle Control.
@@X2011racer You can still download any digital Forza and all the DLC you already own, you just can't buy it now if you missed out before it got de-listed. You do realise that right? Everybody acts like the game can't be played anymore once it gets delisted but it can be, the same way you can still download all your 360 games even though the entire store is shut for new sales, nobody has lost a single thing they already own except that free Silent Hill demo thing that came out on PS4.
I know Nvidia has really dropped the ball on optimized drivers for the past couple of games. You'd think Rebirth and Spider-man 2 would have had some. Or least one of them but nothing.
Capturing the brutal honest review of a game on release has value for historical context also. Holding companies accountable to releasing products in a poor state is part of the value I see as a consumer, in teams like DF.
I'm not sure this is the right place to approach you guys. But, do you all have a desire for creators like you to help you cover sports games? I apologize if asking about sports games is insulting. some of us computer scientists are also athletes who like these games and want to discuss how to make them better. And I think your platform would be a great place to spark change in a gaming genre that employs various horrible game design philosophies to prioritize profit over quality of play.
@@samgoff5289what I'm suggesting is making content to change that reality. They get away with that because no one on the consumer side holds them accountable. And if you hate sports games the way I assume most people watching this channel might, I can empathize with your view. But those of us who've played these sports at a high level in real life... ... and who understand how to get more out of the chess match in the games get WAY more out of the games than the (they just changed the graphics) complaint most casuals players (and haters) make.
Very small design philosophy changes could make these games AMAZING without having to do MUCH more than they are doing now. That's why I think the convo could be valuable. I get why that would be a long shot with THIS audience, but very few people are as thorough as the people here at DF. 👍
@@samgoff5289and thanks for chiming in. Your response actually validates the reason I think the content wouldn't really work. You mentioned the conversations would be "boring." I believe (maybe wrongly) that the bulk of viewers watching ANYTHING are there for the fun. I'm not. I don't come to digital foundry for "fun." I come here to get smarter and hopefully contribute to the ongoing conversation to improve video games out of this stagnant design mediocrity that these lazy publishers have employed over the last few decades. Very few of the convos i would want to see would be "fun." Hence, you are probably right. This is not a good idea. 😔
@@BryantChamberstvi do agree with you that there should be a dedicated channel that’s big specifically for sports and/or specifically for sports games. i understand the wish to have better games but they can’t be upheld by a million subscriber niche youtube channel meant for generalized video gaming topics including physical technology. i wish they’d change the games more though
Not surprised the 3rd game has issues too when the previous spider-man games on Pc still have bad texture loading issues on buildings and crashing issues that can corrupt saves
Do you see Microsoft going the way of cell phone companies? Require Game Pass to use whatever the next hardware is. Further, subsidize the price of the box with long term mandatory game pass memberships. Similar to your iphone. You get it for $300-$500 when it really costs $2000. But they make their money back in your membership fees. Then they can iterate the "box" every two years to get a bump in revenue without having to catastrophically change the tech inside. My experience with XSX and windows has been enough for me to not want to use MS hardware or software at all in the future. I could see them pulling this scenario because their MS execs have always been out of touch with the gaming world given it's relatively low profitability against their main product (govt infrastructure). I hope they don't. I could see that leading to Xbox being done. And despite my bad experiences, I wouldn't want them to leave the market. This is what concerns me. Running billionaires companies teaches that they often focus TOO much on short term profitability (especially the younger ones) Anyway, sorry for the word wall. Hopefully there's something in this that is interesting and not completely unfounded. Thanks!
Microsoft (and Sony) will eventually go the way of Netflix. A monthly tiered streamjng subscription service which will give you access to the Gamepass library and a streaming quality matched to the tier you have subscribed to (1080p/2160@60/2160@120/etc).
If you stick with only reflections and keep all other rt features off it runs at 140 on m 4080 with a 7800x3d and DLSS on Quality with FG at 4k. All the new nvidia stuff seems to be added with a hot needle. Not yet ready.
It's nice and dandy that Phil says he wants his hardware to win on hardware, but fundamentally you need to convince people why buying a console that has both PS and Xbox games isn't more compelling.
Its rather amusing, Phil has the ambition and goal posts set for that vision, but no road map how to get there which is clearly evident otherwise we'd be seeing him say why to pick an Xbox over a Playstation but we don't because he has no good reason to suggest doing so.
If their next console has multiple storefronts then yes essentially you’ll be able to play PS games on your Xbox as well. We can’t really make any assumptions until we see what the next console is
@@JDwall9192 I've only ever seen Xbox fan people like Destin making up dream scenarios in their heads like this for their next console or theoretical handheld but I just can't see it ever becoming a reality.
$20 a month for every single Xbox produced title goes along way especially when their current output is 5 games in 5 months. Compare that to current and even future Sony output they have so very few games coming out and you have to pay full price for them.
Its like bad reviews help give feedback to devs so they can make sth better the next time. Alex keeps saying stuff this past year that just make me dislike him more and more....
They don’t technically review anything here. They do a technical analysis of available versions of games highlighting the strengths or weaknesses of the ports. They don’t analyze narrative/story or gameplay aspects in a subjective way.
Forza used to allow MSAA and FXAA at the same time, but after they added TAA, this is no longer possible. It wast the best combo covering vegetation as well.
I liked Alan's question. Xbox could be the continuation of what Sega did with Dreamcast. It's like asking, what if Sega had kept making hardware but still brought their key IP to other systems?
The difference is that Microsoft are setting up a future where you can get their box and get some games, or a Playstation and get all games It's genuinely hard to see how Xbox hardware keeps selling at that point once mainstream folks catch on. MS say they'll compete with better hardware, but I just don't see how that will outweigh investing in a way bigger and more comprehensive ecosystem for software.
@SimonM7TV you are drinking Sony Kool aid. You can't get all xbox games on ps5, they don't come to ps5 until years later in some cases like Forza 5 or Fable.
Is ML potentially heading towards an equivalent fundamental architectural shift like we saw with unified shaders? Dumping raster basics and significantly increasing ML across the GPU?
can we have a video comparing AF/MF, smooth motion and lossless scaling's new algorithm for an ultimate driver level scaling/ frame gen analysis? that would be great.
Crazy how Sony still can’t optimize their games for PC. Every Xbox game runs perfect day one on pc with great graphical options. Hellblade 2 and Indiana Jones were standouts in that department.
I honestly think waiting to do a video on the SM2 port (a couple weeks to a month) would be best, since otherwise you'd just have to do an update video anyways.
Forza Horizon 5 has some nasty bugs in The Eliminator that PlayGround Games marked as won't fix. The worst one being displaying the map when you win a head to head that prevents you from upgrading and you are stuck in your current car unable to get in a new head to head until the end of the session. I'm wondering if Panic Button will "port" these bugs to the PlayStation.
Sounds like a cheat if used correctly. Say you have the Hoonigan RS200, and you trigger the glitch while driving it. Now, no one can challenge you until the final showdown.
Rich, we're assuming that AMD is going to fumble it because (say it with me everyone) "AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Especially in GPUs.
I don't personally understand the Nixxes praise. This is their worst port in recent memory yes, but I've had issues with their ports and have had to wait for patches on many of their releases for years now. Their Sony ports in particular have been okay for me at release, but usually with an issue or two egregious enough to feel the need to wait a while.
Based on their answers to Microsoft's business plans the last few years I do wonder how the DF crew would react to Sega's waning Dreamcast days. "We think it's great Sega is bringing their games to other platforms!" "They're not gonna stop making hardware, with the rising cost of development, these moves just make sense!" Just curious😂
The idea that Nvidia is threatened by DeepSeek is very wrong. People did not buy less cars as they became more fuel efficient, people will not buy less GPUs if they become more efficient! Jensen himself (along with Bryan Catanzaro et al) predicted and welcomed the advances in inference scaling from Reinforcement and logical reasoning last year! Wall Street's ups and downs are often about groupthink, hype, and a poor understanding of the underlying technology. Think about it, literally just last month Wall Street was concerned with compute scaling - a narrative which DeepSeek (and o1/o3 from OpenAI to a lesser extent) COMPLETELY DESTROYS. There's no actual evidence that Microsoft or ANY of the hyperscalers are buying less GPUs as a result of the new models. Nvidia almost certainly WELCOMES advances in models, ESPECIALLY if they scale inference!
Market disagrees because this is a bubble and any indication that there is room for progress without throwing infinite money at faster hardware is bad news for the makers of said hardware.
Spider Man 2 looks and runs way better on my PS5 Pro compared to my 4070 PC. If I remember correctly DF tech review says the PS5 Pro runs at 1440p in performance mode on the Pro and fidelity mode is nearly native 2160p on the Pro.
I found ray reconstruction to be broken on this port. I also have a 4070. Have had a decent number of crashed and some random inexplicable slowdowns where my gpu is barely utilized and fps drops to single digits. Outside of those admittedly big issues I get around 80-100 fps with Ray reconstruction off, dlss quality, and frame gen on
I think so many are assuming AMD is going to fumble the RDNA 4 launch for a couple of reasons. First, they kinda already *have* fumbled RDNA4, at least in terms of stock management and messaging. Second -- and more to the point -- they have a long-standing pattern of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, at least in the GPU space. They fumbled the RDNA 3 launch. And the RDNA 2 launch before that. And the RDNA launch before THAT. In fact, with a few specific exceptions (RX6600 once it hit $200), I'd argue that AMD hasn't released a compelling GPU since Polaris in 2016(!), which is kind of insane. In short, Nvidia -$50 just ain't cutting it, and it's WELL PAST time AMD figured this out.
38:40 like what kind of question is that? Make a video that informs people about the technical state of the game. If Nixxes releases a patch you make another video reporting on it. That is your job, isn't it?
On the topic of how to do videos on games "not released in a resonable shape" i think the biggest favour you could do us as consummers is like you say, put pressure on the publishers (assuming they are the ones pushing to realse a not finished product!) As much as i enjoy you pointing out all the glorious ray tracing and brilliant optimization. Mabey that should be an honor bestowed to those hwo deserve it!
I get confused hearing MS can't do a series s portable affordably at this time, but then people say Switch 2 will be at the performance of Series S. How can Nintendo make an affordable handheld that's better than a steam deck and close to Series S when docked? Make it make sense.
I really wanna see you guys have a discussion with Threat Interactive. He makes some fantastic counter arguments to a lot of the stuff you guys say about modern graphics rendering pipelines.
That's fair. Some really nice elements to the game, including some things implemented better than FH5, although the lack of crossplay freemode felt like a real missed opportunity.
In the open world car festival sense, absolutely, but the physics and upgrade systems are very different, I think there will be quite an audience for both
I think that's why. He had to make 5+ videos on one game when so many other amazing games come out that he couldn't cover because jedi survivor was surviving by a thread.
I'd say make a very quick video on the current status of the game so people know to wait, but not too much effort so IF they fix it, reminder its never guaranteed, a longer video could come out to cover the current state. Also acknowledge the poor launch performance at the beginning even if it does get better. Many people buy games extremely close to launch and even a 1-2 minute PSA is valueable.
Perhaps if Sony allowed Universal to continue work on the PC version of Crash Bandicoot back in 1996, they would've already gotten the PC know-how by now.
Re: how to cover Spider-Man 2 -- I think you should just wait. Spider-Man 2 might end up being a special case -- a rare miss from a port developer known for putting out great products with excellent post-launch support. But you were right in your comments - any video you put out now will be outdated within a week; if you want to give consumers something timely and useful, maybe do a RUclips Short that just says "game is unfinished, wait for patches". Taking the 'timeliness' requirement away, you could wait to review the product once you feel it's been patched to a state that represents Nixxes' likely intent. BUT, that video would probably warrant a lengthy intro segment that covers the initial launch, the total lack of prerelease marketing, etc, etc. The eventual SM2 PC video could be a useful illustration of "how -NOT- to market and publish a PC port of a AAA first-party release".
The game looks to be doing shader compilation in the background for the first 15-20min of the game making for quite a bit of stuttering on my computer anyway (amd 7700X, 6900XT). I don't remember the game informing me it was going to do shader compilations in the background but perhaps I missed that message 🤔
Honestly, I know that it is impossible and I know that you gotta eat too, but the only feasible way I find to actually revert this mad situation we have with scalpers and GPU prices going to the roof is boycotting the cards that come out with such issues. Don't talk about them, don't benchmark them, don't market them. After all, what's the point if no one is able to buy them? It's exactly as if they don't exist in the first place. But yeah, I know that's wishful thinking.
The competition is Nintendo + PC, Xbox has been absent for more than 10 years we have more great games that we can play in our total free time. We'll be fine.
I would just like to point out that the only physical store in Canada that carries 5090s (Best buy is hit or miss) Canada Computers announced even before "release" that they would be getting zero 5090s across the entire country. That has pushed demand and market price (Which is different from retail price) up more then anything which just lends more to the fact its a paper launch
If there is a process node change the jump from 5090 to 6090 will hopefully be more like the improvement from 3090-4090. 5000 series to me so far looks like the most underwhelming generation for a long time.
If Microsoft makes a pc/console hybrid like the steam deck i can see that conquering over the ps6 specially if online multiplayer is completly free of charge.
For me, a next-gen leap would have to include a leap in the performance of ray-tracing ie. a software or hardware solution that ensures faster, more efficient calculation of frames. At current pace, there's no chance that a console in 3-4 years would be capable of 60fps/4K or dynamic 4K with path-tracing type features, the rendering cost is simply too high. If there is no solution, if ray-tracing is simply that pricey...then Cerny is flat-out wrong and ray-tracing is not the future. One such solution could be neural rendering via use of neural networks to compute rays, but if the price is too high...it ain't gonna be in a console box.
Why do y'all keep acting like Alex didn't specifically say he hasn't even had time to play Spiderman 2 for a review, and that he's currently working on another video? Calling people "bought" for not working during their break is ridiculous.
I think that the issue is in that most people are angry at nvidia giving them not the improvements from previous generations for the same price but not understanding the the manufactureing cost is up and they want to make the same margins because they are a corporation, which is not working for a consumer like any Corp is not, but bottom line is people are angry because there is no competition to drive the price market and innovation!!
Xbox going multiplatform isn't an issue for me. It's cool that PS players can get the opportunity to play Forza, maybe Halo Master Chief in the future…those are the kinds of games that don't exist in Sony's catalog. That will make money for Microsoft/Xbox, leading to more games in the future and more entries for Game Pass. I'll stay with my XSX (I already sold my PS5). I just hope they won't drop the hardware in the future; I like their products. And they could make an Xbox controller for PS5, who knows?
On spider-man 2, I’ve had at least one crash. Was experiencing some frame time type stutter issues. I’m on a 5090 so I have been brute forcing it, including using frame generation. I forget my exact settings, but it’s been running well for me now. I don’t think it’s an atrocious port. Definitely needs some more work under the hood. I think to cover a game like this as you said a lot of this is probably going to get improved. Just look at the last of us. So focus on the good, focus on what’s being attempted and bring to light but maybe don’t dwell as extensively on the negatives and then do a follow up video in four weeks. Maybe you guys should make shorter follow up videos a more normal thing? After a game has been out for a month that had some issues at launch, do a 3-5 minute check in video.
Would have gotten a PS5 Pro, but I got the opportunity to get the Slim 30th Anniversary, but I’m loving it, the Nostalgic look is beautiful 🤩, and so far looks great on the LG OLED with VRR.
@@imp_ct that’s great, glad PC now gets allot of these first party PS5 games. Looking forward to trying out Horizon FW on PS5 after 100% Astrobot and finishing ratchet and clank.
43:20 Oliver,, look at your vram + ram usage. Steam deck is using 12.7 ram+ 7.4 vram = 20.1Gb. You only have 16 gb unified memory. Spider-Man 2 is resource starved on the SD.
The issue with the frametimes is due to a lack of a frame cap. If you frame cap it via CPU, the game's frame times level out. It has some issues that need patching.
Phil Spencer comments on hardware makes no sense - name one good reason why a consumer would buy a next gen xbox if everything xbox linked runs on a Playstation or Nintendo ? If I buy a Playstation or Nintendo I get there exclusives ? Why would I continue to subscribe to Game Pass, why not switch to Playstation +
@@74Spyderman thats an ever decreasing sized crowd though, most of which are on the cheapy Series S and most of which wouldn't care about switching to streaming on their phone or other devices to save money buying a new Xbox console.
The supposition about AMD fumbling the RDNA4 launch isn't just about RDNA3, it's about AMD never seeming to stop fumbling. Every time they get a chance to gain some market share vs Nvidia they screw it up again, resulting in 15 years of essentially continual decline.
I absolutely loved the first two Spider-Man games (Spider-Man 1 and Miles Morales), so I decided to wait for the Nixxes PC port of Spider-Man 2 instead of playing it on PS5. I wanted to fully experience the city in all its ray-traced glory on my ultrawide screen (and RTX 4090). I’ve been so very desperate to play this game, but I’m incredibly disappointed with the Nixxes port. In roughly 12 hours of gameplay, I’ve experienced around 20 crashes. I had to disable ray reconstruction entirely due to extreme artifacting, and at times, I’ve had to disable ray tracing entirely just to stop the game from crashing and get through the cutscenes. I’ve heard that disabling ray tracing reduces crashes significantly, but I refuse to do so - I specifically waited for the PC release to enjoy those features. Maybe I’m crazy for putting up with this and should just wait for a patch, but after waiting so long, I couldn’t put the game down this weekend - even when I had to replay missions multiple times due to crashes. Thankfully, the auto-save system is at least somewhat decent. I look forward to Alex’s analysis of the game. I’m just really disappointed that my first play-through of one of my favourite game series has been tarnished by so many bugs. It’s clear the game should have been delayed.
Alex, I don't think it's your problem if your video is outdated because they patched the game after your video. The game should've come out in a good state, and your video would be a cautionary reminder to people not to buy games before watching a proper third-party analysis of the product. If a publisher suffers poor sales in the future because of an outdated video, that's on them for releasing it in a poor state.
Yeah gotta agree, I feel like waiting for the “inevitable” early patches is kind of enabling their behavior rather than pushing back against it. I would imagine giving more slack to an indie dev or something is prudent but not as much so to the large publishers who clearly have the resources to ensure a good product at launch
@@Chyllbacca second this
Couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately it’s another reminder to never preorder as you’ll never have the “complete” game on release
You're 100% not wrong, but there were other reasons for not delivering a day one review too. Alex is working on another video, and only got access to the game during the weekend when he wasn't at work. I think those are valid reasons for not reviewing it yet.
Besides, they already do post-release videos on updated content. So what would the problem be?
+1 for silly hats
Meh
101
-1 come on, it’s the 200 episode, bring something special not just hats.
My suggestion for the 200th episode is to get all main 5 of the DF crew on 1 show at the same time! Make it happen!
That would be cool
best idea so far, i'd love to see it!
Thank you, Oliver, for actually bringing up the real AIB / Street price of GPUs instead of the MSRPs. People need to stop falling for Nvidia's MSRP numbers, because the vast majority of units sold are AIB models way above that.
I only managed to get an MSRP 5080 by stalking Canada Computers listings and getting lucky with a Zotac model suddenly appearing. The entirety of Canada computers, the largest PC part chain in Canada, at the point I bought the card (last Friday at 5pm) only ever had 9 5080 models in total and 0 5090 models for the whole nation scattered across different stores trickled out. There were only 4 MSRP models out of the 9 5080 models
Not even a paper launch, just vapour
@@Merp9 I was so close to buying the Zotac 5080 too, but was just beat by 5 minutes at the Waterloo location lol. It was like $50 over MSRP right, almost nothing... but luckily I was able to get a similar priced PNY backorder from best buy so fingers crossed that comes in a couple of weeks.
@@Merp9the zotac 5080 in my country are about 1600 USD atm how crazy is that. Usually the zotac 4080 super goes at about 1150 USD here.
@nonameddog I'm at the North York location, was $1499CAD. Especially with the Lunar New Year coming up and affecting factory output, people aren't going to be getting MSRP cards for a long time, if ever
Not even factoring the whole trade ware debacle...
Oliver is the man of the people.
Spider-Man 2 drops to the 50’s with a 5080. That’s….that’s something.
Amazing Day One Nvidia drivers ;)
I hope situations like these will teach people to stop fanboying or trivialising over brands and studios…I can see a 50/50 fault here between Nixxes testing methodology and Nvidia’s driver team…
@@or1on89assuming the issue is drivers
AMD, Nvidia & Intel GPUs all have issues with Spiderman 2
That points to a game issue, not a driver issue
I'm *CPU limited* with a 4060ti and a Ryzen 7700. That is *not* what I would expect. Something is very wrong with this port
Runs buttery smooth at 60fps on my PS5 Pro!
@@Nat-yf6ff the game has its slack of issues…especially memory leaks in the VRAM department. But from what I am seeing with my own computers Nvidia was not prepared either…I have less issues on my 7900XTX than on my 3080Ti with RT on. Everyone screws up, and people need to ask more from the companies they give their money to. This is a prima example.
With Spider-Man Remastered we had a driver crash for a very long time on my 3080Ti and it was very random, I started thinking something else’s in my system was the problem…10 month after the game release Nixxes fixed it and Nvidia released a complimentary driver…
These companies need to sort their shit out and people need to stop supporting fake myths about wonderful ports and wonderful Nvidia software…because that’s what DF is going to say in their delayed review in the conclusions…by omitting an analysis of the current state of the game…
Good on Oliver for calling out what is clearly anti consumer behavior from Nvidia with the pricing, driven by an effective monopoly in the product segment.
How is it a monopoly when 7900XTX exists while 4080/4090/5080/5090 basically don't, it competes favorably with 4080/5080, and it will probably still be AMD's fastest card even after 9070 launches? If lack of consumer awareness/interest of a competing product is the problem then isn't that what DF should be addressing rather than a product that exists only on paper somehow being a monopoly?
@@AFistfulOf4K If you want the top end of gaming graphics right now, high framrate path tracing, Nvidia is the only company that can accomodate that. That's what I meant by monopoly. Personally I think the 7900XTX is a great card, and that path tracing is way overrated for the processing overhead, but the truth is the 7900XTX just doesn't compete in that segment.
3:44 - curious
4:02 - curious
10:25 - compelling
10:53 - compelling
13:31 - compelling
13:50 - compelling
14:17 - curious
14:26 - curious
16:36 - *bespoke*
16:44 - curious
16:50 - curious
19:16 - curious
24:54 - -curious- intrigued
24:58 - curious
25:31 - curious
25:38 - curious
28:46 - in the here and now (Oliver edition)
40:44 - curious
Problem with 5080 is that it actually is a 70 series card for 1,000 bucks.
When you are lucky…because if the store only has Asus models you can add 35% to that price…
Thats a lie I'm afraid. The current "official" MSRP on Amazon UK is £2000 for a 5080...
I will buy a 5080 and 5080ti. I have 3 gaming PCs to fill out
If companies are selling games full price it should be a complete experience.
IS JOHN LINNEMAN ALIVE????
Have been quite sick. Bad laryngitis and can’t speak without a raspy voice. 😢
@@dark1x That sucks, I hope you feel better soon!
get well soon john, love all your retro videos!
@@dark1x We love you John! Take your time to recover! I appreciate keeping us up to date!
Thank you for all the awesome content you provide for us! You and DF made my days better! Respect!
@@dark1x hoping you geht well soon
As a reviewer, you should be reviewing the game it launched in. Not what it can be protecting the devs but protecting consumers from buying a bad product.
Remember that this is not a game review channel, this is a game rendering/tech review channel.
And they've done a great job alerting us about games/products in bad states.
That isn't useful longterm though and it's not practical to redo breakdowns with every major patch. The idea of a quicklook that Richard mentioned to highlight issues with problematic games then maybe a more indepth video later seems reasonable
They should also call Nvidia bs and bad drivers when they happen…
they ain't a game-reviewing channel fcol. also: everyone by now knows sm2 on pc should be avoided in its current state.
Still. There were a lot of other non-fan favourite games/devs DF covered regardless of patches coming or not in particular to influence the Devs. And if two weeks from now patches won't come, what then? What about the people who look to DF reporting on issues to make an informed purchase. I think not covering such a big game even to make an addendum later is a miss. Not suggesting they are protecting Nixxes and Insomniac from having their first L but this is not a W for DF as well. Maybe they can do a short "before you buy" vid just signaling the problems in the future.
i like the idea of a DF quick look, maybe even just firing up the game and capturing your reactions and then edit together a summary of the first 30 minutes or something.. no graphs, no rigorous settings testing, just the first impressions
the detailed review can come later after a patch or two
Yea essentially what they did for FF7 Rebirth in this quasi podcast format.
That's what they did in this podcast. A quick look highlighting the issues. All they need to do is clip it out of this and upload it as its own video so people who don't watch these get the information.
no, games need to launch in a working state and this idea basically muddies the waters.
it's pro publisher and anti consumer.
DF Direct Weekly makes Mondays easier to get through.
I'm getting 100% repro crashes on Spider Man 2 at max settings on a 4090 with a 13900K... With the only solution being to disable RT features until I get past this crash, enable RT again and remove it once it re-appears.
RT reflections is a huge improvement in that game so that makes it hard to skip... but I've had like more than 30 crashes in 8 hours of play time
I'm also seeing inconsistent frame time as reported in your video.
They already shipped a small patch yesterday which solved some crash cases but it's not fully fixed at all. It's a shame, we CANNOT get a new big game to ship in acceptable basic conditions right now even with super powerful 24GB GPUs. And they must know this was happening before shipping the game, in that case please devs: delay the game!
These are the reasons I will not be returning to high end PC gaming anytime soon. It’s just not worth the hassle anymore as there are just too many issues within the PC space right now. I’m very happy with the PS5 Pro for the next few years.
I have the same configuration and I get pretty regular crashes. Oddly I seem to get them more frequently during cutscenes than any kind of gameplay, but I've only played for about 3 hours before giving up so it's hard to establish a pattern. It's really frustrating because I expect poor performance from Ubisoft and EA published games (regardless of the developer), and Unreal 5 are obviously a mixed bag at release most of the time, but Nixxes has a really good track record so I thought this would be a solid day 1 purchase. Oh well.
4080 here and also brutal full system reboot crashing. Tried all kinds of settings and it will crash after 15-20 mins. I find this so strange because the miles morales pc port worked just fine. Is the tech in this game really that much different?
I was able to get the game pretty stable (crashes are many hours apart instead of minutes) by rolling back my driver. The latest driver seems to have been the cause of a ton of crashes for me in other games, too, like FF7 Rebirth.
Turn off Ray Reconstruction. That caused all my crashes and it looks worse on. As soon as i turned it off,no crashes.
I would also love to hear about your guys favorite games through the years, for anything special for the 200th episode.
Spider man 2 is out today, yes? So review the product today. Not what it can be or could be. You aren’t a marketing firm, you are a reviewer.
If they didn’t want a review in the performance to be bad, then they shouldn’t have released it as such.
The problem is that even if a lot of problems go unfixed, the state that it is now is useless for the majority of people that will buy this game, yet this day one review will appear in everyone's feed when looking for the state of the gsme
game is fine on pc. were several hours in. nothing to report.
Don't buy games on day one. Ever.
@@kubeanie18 That's why it's mixed on Steam, right? This video even says there's something wrong with it
They just launched an update and it’s supposed to fix some crashes, haven’t tried it yet though
Losless scaling is amazing for doing 60 patches to games like Jet Set Radio.
The good thing about Forza horizon five being ported to PlayStation is that it will probably reset the clock on the license to music and cars in the game that might ultimately mean the game is available in all stores for much longer than it might have otherwise been. Forza horizon four have recently been delisted.
I would imagine this being released on PlayStation five also opens the door for it appearing on switch 2 when that arrives the specs at the very least look like it is more powerful than the Xbox One on which the title also launched as a cross gen release
that's why we buy physical (so long as the game is on the disc lol)
Oh, good point!
Good point!
I don't see the game coming to Nintendo Switch 2 due to a lack of pressure sensitive triggers. On the teaser trailer, the ZL and ZR buttons look identical to the previous console, which weren't Pressure Sensitive. I did try to play Forza Horizon 5 on Cloud Gaming with a Switch Pro Controller. It's hardly playable when ZL and ZR always output 100% pressure and 0% pressure instantaneously with no in-betweens, making certain cars a pain to drive without Traction Control, Launch Control or Throttle Control.
@@X2011racer You can still download any digital Forza and all the DLC you already own, you just can't buy it now if you missed out before it got de-listed.
You do realise that right?
Everybody acts like the game can't be played anymore once it gets delisted but it can be, the same way you can still download all your 360 games even though the entire store is shut for new sales, nobody has lost a single thing they already own except that free Silent Hill demo thing that came out on PS4.
The Deepseek deep dive by Oliver was really awesome! Just a wealth of knowledge.
Where's John?? I haven't seen him for quite a while.
John is being replaced
@@PCZONE1is that a joke?
He's not going anywhere, he said he's just sick at the moment
I know Nvidia has really dropped the ball on optimized drivers for the past couple of games. You'd think Rebirth and Spider-man 2 would have had some. Or least one of them but nothing.
Do we know that, or is it just a hypothesis?
@Joostinonline is just a theory. It is unusual, though not to have drivers for AAA games.
Capturing the brutal honest review of a game on release has value for historical context also. Holding companies accountable to releasing products in a poor state is part of the value I see as a consumer, in teams like DF.
"One week away from the big 200 and I can exclusively reveal that we have no special plans for the 200th show whatsoever" Lol
I'm not sure this is the right place to approach you guys.
But, do you all have a desire for creators like you to help you cover sports games?
I apologize if asking about sports games is insulting.
some of us computer scientists are also athletes who like these games and want to discuss how to make them better.
And I think your platform would be a great place to spark change in a gaming genre that employs various horrible game design philosophies to prioritize profit over quality of play.
That would be very boring since they just change the number and release the same game
@@samgoff5289what I'm suggesting is making content to change that reality. They get away with that because no one on the consumer side holds them accountable.
And if you hate sports games the way I assume most people watching this channel might, I can empathize with your view.
But those of us who've played these sports at a high level in real life...
... and who understand how to get more out of the chess match in the games get WAY more out of the games than the (they just changed the graphics) complaint most casuals players (and haters) make.
Very small design philosophy changes could make these games AMAZING without having to do MUCH more than they are doing now. That's why I think the convo could be valuable.
I get why that would be a long shot with THIS audience, but very few people are as thorough as the people here at DF. 👍
@@samgoff5289and thanks for chiming in. Your response actually validates the reason I think the content wouldn't really work.
You mentioned the conversations would be "boring."
I believe (maybe wrongly) that the bulk of viewers watching ANYTHING are there for the fun.
I'm not. I don't come to digital foundry for "fun." I come here to get smarter and hopefully contribute to the ongoing conversation to improve video games out of this stagnant design mediocrity that these lazy publishers have employed over the last few decades.
Very few of the convos i would want to see would be "fun."
Hence, you are probably right. This is not a good idea. 😔
@@BryantChamberstvi do agree with you that there should be a dedicated channel that’s big specifically for sports and/or specifically for sports games. i understand the wish to have better games but they can’t be upheld by a million subscriber niche youtube channel meant for generalized video gaming topics including physical technology. i wish they’d change the games more though
where’s john?? who will bring us the latest playstation 3 news if he’s not here??! 😮😮😮
Not surprised the 3rd game has issues too when the previous spider-man games on Pc still have bad texture loading issues on buildings and crashing issues that can corrupt saves
Rich's reasonableness is a big part of why I'm here.
1:29:00 YES, Google has become useless, it’s basically a direct link to RUclips, Reddit and Wikipedia
Do you see Microsoft going the way of cell phone companies?
Require Game Pass to use whatever the next hardware is. Further, subsidize the price of the box with long term mandatory game pass memberships.
Similar to your iphone. You get it for $300-$500 when it really costs $2000. But they make their money back in your membership fees.
Then they can iterate the "box" every two years to get a bump in revenue without having to catastrophically change the tech inside.
My experience with XSX and windows has been enough for me to not want to use MS hardware or software at all in the future.
I could see them pulling this scenario because their MS execs have always been out of touch with the gaming world given it's relatively low profitability against their main product (govt infrastructure).
I hope they don't. I could see that leading to Xbox being done. And despite my bad experiences, I wouldn't want them to leave the market.
This is what concerns me. Running billionaires companies teaches that they often focus TOO much on short term profitability (especially the younger ones)
Anyway, sorry for the word wall. Hopefully there's something in this that is interesting and not completely unfounded.
Thanks!
Only ps5 gamers spend their time day dreaming about death of xbox. In reality they're still going strong.
@MrWizardGG did you mean to copy me in this comment? Im not sure how this is related to what I was asking. 👍
Microsoft (and Sony) will eventually go the way of Netflix. A monthly tiered streamjng subscription service which will give you access to the Gamepass library and a streaming quality matched to the tier you have subscribed to (1080p/2160@60/2160@120/etc).
@@coliander4180 could def see that as the end game. 👍
The amount of warm feels I get from this show is crazy. Comfort food.
If you stick with only reflections and keep all other rt features off it runs at 140 on m 4080 with a 7800x3d and DLSS on Quality with FG at 4k. All the new nvidia stuff seems to be added with a hot needle. Not yet ready.
It's nice and dandy that Phil says he wants his hardware to win on hardware, but fundamentally you need to convince people why buying a console that has both PS and Xbox games isn't more compelling.
Its rather amusing, Phil has the ambition and goal posts set for that vision, but no road map how to get there which is clearly evident otherwise we'd be seeing him say why to pick an Xbox over a Playstation but we don't because he has no good reason to suggest doing so.
If their next console has multiple storefronts then yes essentially you’ll be able to play PS games on your Xbox as well. We can’t really make any assumptions until we see what the next console is
@@JDwall9192 I've only ever seen Xbox fan people like Destin making up dream scenarios in their heads like this for their next console or theoretical handheld but I just can't see it ever becoming a reality.
$20 a month for every single Xbox produced title goes along way especially when their current output is 5 games in 5 months. Compare that to current and even future Sony output they have so very few games coming out and you have to pay full price for them.
@@shredenvain7 Sony offer a similar service on PS+ Extra tier which also gives you plenty of value, _plus_ you're getting Xbox exclusives now too.
They released the game like that, so you guys should cover it because they approved it for launch.
For the 200th episode, review the GeForce 200 series
you don't like doing "bad reviews" ?
wtf. That's why this channel exists. To let people know what they are buying
Its like bad reviews help give feedback to devs so they can make sth better the next time. Alex keeps saying stuff this past year that just make me dislike him more and more....
What's wrong with liking more when the story is positive if you keep telling the negative stories, like he has been doing?
They don’t technically review anything here. They do a technical analysis of available versions of games highlighting the strengths or weaknesses of the ports. They don’t analyze narrative/story or gameplay aspects in a subjective way.
No one likes talking about the bad stuff. They have to, but they don't have to enjoy it. Do you not know what emotions work?
this channel was never about reviews.. it was always about getting paid to praise games and graphics or dont get paid and tell people games look bad.
Forza used to allow MSAA and FXAA at the same time, but after they added TAA, this is no longer possible.
It wast the best combo covering vegetation as well.
I liked Alan's question. Xbox could be the continuation of what Sega did with Dreamcast. It's like asking, what if Sega had kept making hardware but still brought their key IP to other systems?
Agree
Xbox isnt there yet, all their big games are still exclusive on xbox for the first few years, so this is still fake news
The difference is that Microsoft are setting up a future where you can get their box and get some games, or a Playstation and get all games
It's genuinely hard to see how Xbox hardware keeps selling at that point once mainstream folks catch on.
MS say they'll compete with better hardware, but I just don't see how that will outweigh investing in a way bigger and more comprehensive ecosystem for software.
@SimonM7TV you are drinking Sony Kool aid. You can't get all xbox games on ps5, they don't come to ps5 until years later in some cases like Forza 5 or Fable.
he's crying even louder 😂😂😂😂
Release dates should be vague until the game is actually completed
Its a pleasure to see you guys, everytime!
Where is John btw? Several weeks missing. He on vacation huh
Under the weather apparently and his voice hasn't been strong enough to talk consistently
@@dln.sweeney aw man, hope he gets better soon
@@th3orist same here, I enjoy his perspective
Is ML potentially heading towards an equivalent fundamental architectural shift like we saw with unified shaders? Dumping raster basics and significantly increasing ML across the GPU?
1:05:35 Theyre angry because everything needs to be overly sensitized these days,look at RUclips thumbnails with mouths wide open for example
can we have a video comparing AF/MF, smooth motion and lossless scaling's new algorithm for an ultimate driver level scaling/ frame gen analysis? that would be great.
The average person will not buy consoles that are priced way above the usual pricing, like PS5 pro.
Crazy how Sony still can’t optimize their games for PC. Every Xbox game runs perfect day one on pc with great graphical options. Hellblade 2 and Indiana Jones were standouts in that department.
I honestly think waiting to do a video on the SM2 port (a couple weeks to a month) would be best, since otherwise you'd just have to do an update video anyways.
I think it's good now so people dont buy it and find out after and have to wait for patches.
its still important to point how things are at launch. they keep releasing broken games, it should be taken into consideration.
Yah we need to stop buying them at all if they mess up this badly so they do the work before release. They want the initial sales then fix it later.
Forza Horizon 5 has some nasty bugs in The Eliminator that PlayGround Games marked as won't fix. The worst one being displaying the map when you win a head to head that prevents you from upgrading and you are stuck in your current car unable to get in a new head to head until the end of the session. I'm wondering if Panic Button will "port" these bugs to the PlayStation.
Sounds like a cheat if used correctly. Say you have the Hoonigan RS200, and you trigger the glitch while driving it. Now, no one can challenge you until the final showdown.
Honestly noone cares about multiplayer
Rich, we're assuming that AMD is going to fumble it because (say it with me everyone) "AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Especially in GPUs.
I don't personally understand the Nixxes praise. This is their worst port in recent memory yes, but I've had issues with their ports and have had to wait for patches on many of their releases for years now. Their Sony ports in particular have been okay for me at release, but usually with an issue or two egregious enough to feel the need to wait a while.
Based on their answers to Microsoft's business plans the last few years I do wonder how the DF crew would react to Sega's waning Dreamcast days. "We think it's great Sega is bringing their games to other platforms!" "They're not gonna stop making hardware, with the rising cost of development, these moves just make sense!" Just curious😂
Xbox games still take 3 years to come to PS5, which is basically a full console generation at our current attention span levels. So No.
@@MrWizardGG Indy is coming out 3 months later, not 3 years
@@MrWizardGG doom is same day.
@parsashirali8957 yup that's cool but many games like Fable, South of Midnight are timed exclusives for longer
@@MrWizardGG😢😢😢😢
The idea that Nvidia is threatened by DeepSeek is very wrong. People did not buy less cars as they became more fuel efficient, people will not buy less GPUs if they become more efficient! Jensen himself (along with Bryan Catanzaro et al) predicted and welcomed the advances in inference scaling from Reinforcement and logical reasoning last year! Wall Street's ups and downs are often about groupthink, hype, and a poor understanding of the underlying technology. Think about it, literally just last month Wall Street was concerned with compute scaling - a narrative which DeepSeek (and o1/o3 from OpenAI to a lesser extent) COMPLETELY DESTROYS. There's no actual evidence that Microsoft or ANY of the hyperscalers are buying less GPUs as a result of the new models. Nvidia almost certainly WELCOMES advances in models, ESPECIALLY if they scale inference!
The stocks probably dipped because of trumps plan to tariffs Taiwanese made semiconductors, not just deepseek. Nvidia buys out of taiwan.
Not only that, with deepseek been free, everyone with some money, can have there own AI!!! So more GPU will be sold.
AI and Cars are completely different.
Market disagrees because this is a bubble and any indication that there is room for progress without throwing infinite money at faster hardware is bad news for the makers of said hardware.
It's not that. It's more like public transport getting good. So much so that the cars aren't needed in the quantity previously needed.
Oliver was such a great addition to the team. Really enjoy listening to his points of view.
Yeah, he became my favorite member pretty much overnight.
Yes, agree.:-)
It was a 7% drop in growth due to console sales dragging down revenue. Games and Services revenue was actually up.
reason doesn't matter to much. Down is down.
I'm with you Alex on mobile gaming. I can't stand it either! 🤣
Spider Man 2 looks and runs way better on my PS5 Pro compared to my 4070 PC.
If I remember correctly DF tech review says the PS5 Pro runs at 1440p in performance mode on the Pro and fidelity mode is nearly native 2160p on the Pro.
🧢
Is it the same as base PS5?
I found ray reconstruction to be broken on this port. I also have a 4070. Have had a decent number of crashed and some random inexplicable slowdowns where my gpu is barely utilized and fps drops to single digits.
Outside of those admittedly big issues I get around 80-100 fps with Ray reconstruction off, dlss quality, and frame gen on
Didn't u no, the ps5 pro is actually better at raster and ray tracing than a 5090? cerny told me so over the phone
IMO Live Q/A on youtube for 200 episode would be awesome ❤
The biggest surprise they could do for the 200th episode is to have Oliver wear a different shirt.
This is why I never buy games on day 1.
If they can't be bothered to put out a working product, then I can't be bothered to buy their game.
Damn no mention of Kingdom Come? I thought you guys would be all over it, I guess you'll discuss it in the next episode.
They already released that full video yesterday.
I think so many are assuming AMD is going to fumble the RDNA 4 launch for a couple of reasons. First, they kinda already *have* fumbled RDNA4, at least in terms of stock management and messaging. Second -- and more to the point -- they have a long-standing pattern of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, at least in the GPU space. They fumbled the RDNA 3 launch. And the RDNA 2 launch before that. And the RDNA launch before THAT. In fact, with a few specific exceptions (RX6600 once it hit $200), I'd argue that AMD hasn't released a compelling GPU since Polaris in 2016(!), which is kind of insane.
In short, Nvidia -$50 just ain't cutting it, and it's WELL PAST time AMD figured this out.
38:40 like what kind of question is that? Make a video that informs people about the technical state of the game. If Nixxes releases a patch you make another video reporting on it. That is your job, isn't it?
IGN now owns DF, so….
Calm, down he's just asking for ideas.
Im certain they also don't want to waste time and effort on a video that gets patched mid production. You act like it's trivial to make those reviews
On the topic of how to do videos on games "not released in a resonable shape" i think the biggest favour you could do us as consummers is like you say, put pressure on the publishers (assuming they are the ones pushing to realse a not finished product!) As much as i enjoy you pointing out all the glorious ray tracing and brilliant optimization. Mabey that should be an honor bestowed to those hwo deserve it!
spiderman 2 was probably released this soon to coincide with the new show on disney plus which would be fine if the port had been ready
I get confused hearing MS can't do a series s portable affordably at this time, but then people say Switch 2 will be at the performance of Series S. How can Nintendo make an affordable handheld that's better than a steam deck and close to Series S when docked? Make it make sense.
I really wanna see you guys have a discussion with Threat Interactive. He makes some fantastic counter arguments to a lot of the stuff you guys say about modern graphics rendering pipelines.
8:45 That’s quite mean for The Crew Motorfest which is a great competitor…
I was going to make the exact same comment haha
That's fair. Some really nice elements to the game, including some things implemented better than FH5, although the lack of crossplay freemode felt like a real missed opportunity.
In the open world car festival sense, absolutely, but the physics and upgrade systems are very different, I think there will be quite an audience for both
I thought you were going to do a big session where you all play some games together, old and new. Maybe you could do that for the 200th!?
The future of games is a dystopian one with hardware manufacturers actively encouraging poor optimization while charging ever more outrageous prices.
A lot of excuses for Alex to not make a Spiderman 2 video.. Did he forget his coverage of Jedi Survivor spanning almost 2 years?
I think that's why. He had to make 5+ videos on one game when so many other amazing games come out that he couldn't cover because jedi survivor was surviving by a thread.
*Judder Survivor
I'd say make a very quick video on the current status of the game so people know to wait, but not too much effort so IF they fix it, reminder its never guaranteed, a longer video could come out to cover the current state.
Also acknowledge the poor launch performance at the beginning even if it does get better. Many people buy games extremely close to launch and even a 1-2 minute PSA is valueable.
Perhaps if Sony allowed Universal to continue work on the PC version of Crash Bandicoot back in 1996, they would've already gotten the PC know-how by now.
If you have to ask what streets behind means, then you aren't streets ahead.
Meanwhile, the 4070TI (non-super) is already up to more than $1000 USD on Amazon.
Re: how to cover Spider-Man 2 -- I think you should just wait. Spider-Man 2 might end up being a special case -- a rare miss from a port developer known for putting out great products with excellent post-launch support. But you were right in your comments - any video you put out now will be outdated within a week; if you want to give consumers something timely and useful, maybe do a RUclips Short that just says "game is unfinished, wait for patches".
Taking the 'timeliness' requirement away, you could wait to review the product once you feel it's been patched to a state that represents Nixxes' likely intent. BUT, that video would probably warrant a lengthy intro segment that covers the initial launch, the total lack of prerelease marketing, etc, etc. The eventual SM2 PC video could be a useful illustration of "how -NOT- to market and publish a PC port of a AAA first-party release".
The game looks to be doing shader compilation in the background for the first 15-20min of the game making for quite a bit of stuttering on my computer anyway (amd 7700X, 6900XT).
I don't remember the game informing me it was going to do shader compilations in the background but perhaps I missed that message 🤔
Honestly, I know that it is impossible and I know that you gotta eat too, but the only feasible way I find to actually revert this mad situation we have with scalpers and GPU prices going to the roof is boycotting the cards that come out with such issues.
Don't talk about them, don't benchmark them, don't market them. After all, what's the point if no one is able to buy them? It's exactly as if they don't exist in the first place.
But yeah, I know that's wishful thinking.
Oliver is the best. Enjoying all these ai explanations. Thanks Oliver
200th episode will have Mark Cerny, Phil Spencer and Reggie Fils-Aime.
What happens when Sony get REALLY anti consumer next gen without any real competition?
It’s not possible.
The competition is Nintendo + PC, Xbox has been absent for more than 10 years we have more great games that we can play in our total free time. We'll be fine.
I would just like to point out that the only physical store in Canada that carries 5090s (Best buy is hit or miss) Canada Computers announced even before "release" that they would be getting zero 5090s across the entire country. That has pushed demand and market price (Which is different from retail price) up more then anything which just lends more to the fact its a paper launch
Imagine what hardware will sell millions with the released of GTA6, and it being exclusive to consoles?!
The 6090 will be faster and the 5080/90 will be slower by a large margin so ill wait and save my money for it
If there is a process node change the jump from 5090 to 6090 will hopefully be more like the improvement from 3090-4090. 5000 series to me so far looks like the most underwhelming generation for a long time.
If Microsoft makes a pc/console hybrid like the steam deck i can see that conquering over the ps6 specially if online multiplayer is completly free of charge.
Spider-Man 2 issues is an understatement
For me, a next-gen leap would have to include a leap in the performance of ray-tracing ie. a software or hardware solution that ensures faster, more efficient calculation of frames. At current pace, there's no chance that a console in 3-4 years would be capable of 60fps/4K or dynamic 4K with path-tracing type features, the rendering cost is simply too high. If there is no solution, if ray-tracing is simply that pricey...then Cerny is flat-out wrong and ray-tracing is not the future. One such solution could be neural rendering via use of neural networks to compute rays, but if the price is too high...it ain't gonna be in a console box.
Why do y'all keep acting like Alex didn't specifically say he hasn't even had time to play Spiderman 2 for a review, and that he's currently working on another video? Calling people "bought" for not working during their break is ridiculous.
I'm really looking forward to being able to play the Master Chief collection on the PS5 soon. xD
Would love a next-gen console I could stack into an existing cabinet/unit/setup like the PS2, no more awkward to place behemoth consoles
Seems Nvidia left that gulf in price on purpose between 5080 to 5090 for a future intermediate card to bridge the gap.
200th episode should join the 5 of you
I think that the issue is in that most people are angry at nvidia giving them not the improvements from previous generations for the same price but not understanding the the manufactureing cost is up and they want to make the same margins because they are a corporation, which is not working for a consumer like any Corp is not, but bottom line is people are angry because there is no competition to drive the price market and innovation!!
please wear suit again for DFDW 200!
Xbox going multiplatform isn't an issue for me. It's cool that PS players can get the opportunity to play Forza, maybe Halo Master Chief in the future…those are the kinds of games that don't exist in Sony's catalog. That will make money for Microsoft/Xbox, leading to more games in the future and more entries for Game Pass. I'll stay with my XSX (I already sold my PS5). I just hope they won't drop the hardware in the future; I like their products. And they could make an Xbox controller for PS5, who knows?
Yeah i don't want to wait entire console generations to get the good games just so I get day one access to awful Japanese dodging simulators.
On spider-man 2, I’ve had at least one crash. Was experiencing some frame time type stutter issues. I’m on a 5090 so I have been brute forcing it, including using frame generation. I forget my exact settings, but it’s been running well for me now. I don’t think it’s an atrocious port. Definitely needs some more work under the hood. I think to cover a game like this as you said a lot of this is probably going to get improved. Just look at the last of us. So focus on the good, focus on what’s being attempted and bring to light but maybe don’t dwell as extensively on the negatives and then do a follow up video in four weeks. Maybe you guys should make shorter follow up videos a more normal thing? After a game has been out for a month that had some issues at launch, do a 3-5 minute check in video.
Spiderman 2 PC is the reason why in glad I bought a PS5 pro. Smooth and looks good.
Me too. Loving my Pro.
Would have gotten a PS5 Pro, but I got the opportunity to get the Slim 30th Anniversary, but I’m loving it, the Nostalgic look is beautiful 🤩, and so far looks great on the LG OLED with VRR.
Returnal, God of War, Days Gone, Horizon FW, GoT and Ratchet PC is the reason why in glad I sold my PS5. Smooth and looks good.
@@imp_ct that’s great, glad PC now gets allot of these first party PS5 games. Looking forward to trying out Horizon FW on PS5 after 100% Astrobot and finishing ratchet and clank.
@@imp_ctYou PC guys are too insecure.
The Crew Motorfest is very similar to Forza Horizon, I'm not sure there is a hole at all.
43:20 Oliver,, look at your vram + ram usage. Steam deck is using 12.7 ram+ 7.4 vram = 20.1Gb. You only have 16 gb unified memory. Spider-Man 2 is resource starved on the SD.
The issue with the frametimes is due to a lack of a frame cap. If you frame cap it via CPU, the game's frame times level out. It has some issues that need patching.
Phil Spencer comments on hardware makes no sense - name one good reason why a consumer would buy a next gen xbox if everything xbox linked runs on a Playstation or Nintendo ? If I buy a Playstation or Nintendo I get there exclusives ? Why would I continue to subscribe to Game Pass, why not switch to Playstation +
Agreed and Phil's whole career at Xbox has made no sense either honestly.
Maybe for those that want Gamepass but don’t want a PC.
@@74Spyderman thats an ever decreasing sized crowd though, most of which are on the cheapy Series S and most of which wouldn't care about switching to streaming on their phone or other devices to save money buying a new Xbox console.
The supposition about AMD fumbling the RDNA4 launch isn't just about RDNA3, it's about AMD never seeming to stop fumbling. Every time they get a chance to gain some market share vs Nvidia they screw it up again, resulting in 15 years of essentially continual decline.
I absolutely loved the first two Spider-Man games (Spider-Man 1 and Miles Morales), so I decided to wait for the Nixxes PC port of Spider-Man 2 instead of playing it on PS5. I wanted to fully experience the city in all its ray-traced glory on my ultrawide screen (and RTX 4090).
I’ve been so very desperate to play this game, but I’m incredibly disappointed with the Nixxes port. In roughly 12 hours of gameplay, I’ve experienced around 20 crashes. I had to disable ray reconstruction entirely due to extreme artifacting, and at times, I’ve had to disable ray tracing entirely just to stop the game from crashing and get through the cutscenes. I’ve heard that disabling ray tracing reduces crashes significantly, but I refuse to do so - I specifically waited for the PC release to enjoy those features.
Maybe I’m crazy for putting up with this and should just wait for a patch, but after waiting so long, I couldn’t put the game down this weekend - even when I had to replay missions multiple times due to crashes. Thankfully, the auto-save system is at least somewhat decent.
I look forward to Alex’s analysis of the game. I’m just really disappointed that my first play-through of one of my favourite game series has been tarnished by so many bugs. It’s clear the game should have been delayed.
Thumbnail is when Jedi survivor gets another patch which messes up the game again.