Respond to this comment with your nomination for which character we should do next, or vote with a thumbs up if they're already listed. Also, a video discussing my thoughts/reactions to the announcement of the new “Bad Batch” animated series will be up tomorrow. But for now I’ll just say I have mixed feelings about this…
“You misunderstand, Captain. I'm not accepting surrenders at this time; I want you to know failure, utter defeat, crashing down upon you, and for you to know that it is I that delivers it to you.”
Actually I disagree. I understand how many find his voice in Rebels to be rather artistically done, but I myself find it somewhat excessive. Too villainy, if you will. It does present that calm aspect of Thrawn, but to the point where he speaks his words almost lazily with a slight lack of distinction. I’d prefer a more simple sounding voice, and perhaps slightly deeper. For contrast, something far less dramatically unique than, for example, Vader or Palpatine’s voice. Something more human... but with just a hint of his own uniqueness. (calm yet distinct - a little more to the point). And while on the same page of a more /human/ feel, I could see someone using that idea to justify the design change of Thrawn’s eyes in Rebels from pure, solid red to layered, human-like red. Yet, in my eyes the original design mirrored perfectly the unknown intent or strategy of Thrawn. You never knew which way he was really looking... never quite knew where, when, why, or how he would make his next move.
Let's do another Timothy Zahn character next. My vote is for Mara Jade Skywalker. The character who altered Luke's life the most in a positive way after Luke completed his arc involving his father.
Although I tend to prefer the Legends version, where he feels more realistic compared to the New Canon version, Grand Admiral Thrawn is a fresh take on a Star Wars villain for the simple reason that he is more of an intellectual threat than a physical threat and that forces the heroes to grow and solve problems in ways we hadn't seen before. Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine were based around a fairly simple concept where no matter how strong Luke became, they would always be stronger so long as he refused to go down the same path that they had. And in the end, Luke overcomes them not be being stronger, but by being better. By refusing to fight if it means having to become an even greater monster. Enter Thrawn. He's not Force sensitive. He's not some supreme duelist. And he's not at the helm of some awesome doomsday device. Instead, he's just frighteningly smart. All that bravery and faith that carried them through the original trilogy (wherein they never saw a trap that they didn't walk straight into) is no longer enough to carry the day.
What do you guys think about the new series that has just been announced? It will probably consist in large parts of Dee Bradley Baker talking to himself
I wish they finished the story of Rebels. imagine a series where Thrawn and Ezra are on an alien planet in the unknown regions and they have to work together to survive while Sabine and Ahsoka are searching for Ezra.
Mitth'raw'nuruodo😍💙 Thrawn! one of my favourite characters & the Chiss one of my favourite species in Star Wars! First introduction was through Zahn's Thrawn novel and i instantly fell in love with character. Afterwards i read his legends trilogy and was treated with another perspective of his character that made him even more intriguing. His loyalty, his warrior instincts and his militant tactical mind all while being focused and calm truly a one of a kind character. Cant wait for the next novel 1st of September. 💙💙
There’s a new Thrawn novel coming out? That’s cool! I’ve been putting off reading the books, even though he sounds like precisely my kind of character: the brilliant strategist. Thank you for the news! 8)
Personally they should have made the Thrawn EU trilogy canon as something that did still happen inbetween 6 and 7 (and 7 - 9 being George's story) and after the movies were done, they could have made an animated series of those books with of course slight changes they needed to fit with current timeline they're making, eventually filling the gap between the movies and show with other media. That certainly would have kept Star Wars more stabilized then what's happening now.
You know that writers of 7 would have needed to continue characters of Luke, Leia, Mara jade, jacen and jaina solo if that happened, they couldn't even not botch OT characters, what would have happened to those? Thrawn trilogy introduces all of those characters
Villain is a strong word. After all, he seeks to protect the galaxy from the serious and real threats that lurk from within the unknown regions of the Star Wars Galaxy. If anything, he's a cold anti hero that sees the bigger picture.
@@dancingvalkyrie The fact that tehy had to deus ex machina out of the situation only proves that even Diet Thrawn was more than they could match otherwise. Same thing with the Bendu in their previous encounter.
I kinda don't like the term villain. That sounds so... evil. And upon reading the new Thrawn trilogy, if there's one person in the Empire who's not evil, it's him. He always minimizes deaths, both imperial and others. He knows the Empire's corrupt and hopes he can change that. He's the designated bad guy in Rebels, but even there he rarely comes off as evil. He's really just doing his job there. To me, he's truly a hero.
Disney could not have made a 1-to-1 adaptation, but I think they could have used Zahn's books as a template with an adjusted timeline and it likely would have been a better result than what we got. Something of a combination of Heir and Academy, still heavily featuring the next generation of Skywalkers and Solos.
Thrawn wasn’t predictable in his tactics whereas the Sith were much more. He was a character that you respected and saw him as a serious threat due to his demeanor and intelligence driven not by blind anger as the Sith, but a colder and more calculated mentality. Thrawn’s character was written as if he had all of the knowledge of Sun-Tzu.
Here are some Awesome Thrawn stories: - Outbound Flight - Thrawn (Novel) Thrawn Trilogy: - Heir to the Empire - Dark Force Rising - The Last Command Thrawn Duology: - Spector of the Past - Vision of the Future
I know nothing about Legends Thrawn but I think Canon Thrawn is an amazing I'm re-listening to the first book in the new Thrawn Trilogy and am excited for the Thrawn Ascendancy Trilogy of books the first of which comes out the 1st of September
*"Author Timothy Zahn has stated that Thrawn's character is a composite of various historical and fictional personalities, including Erwin Rommel, Robert E. Lee, Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great, and Sherlock Holmes, to name a few."* Nuff said!
Been playing a lot of Empire at War lately, and I really feel Thrawn. He is just such a fascinating character with cunning strategy, ruthless prosecution and cold-blooded action while maintaining a somewhat positive image. I did not see the vote but it's defiantly a 5/5 for me, him in the Thrawn trilogy etc is just such a great character.
While rebels didn’t do Thrawn as well as Timothy Zahn does, the way I could really tell they did him pretty well was that I was rooting for him over the ghost crew and I had no idea who he was when I watched rebels. Now after reading the Legends books I realize he is way better than rebels could have shown being a kids show.
As a person who grew up watching Lars and Mads Mikkelsen I really genuinely love how they both brothers ended up in Star Wars cannon. I truly hope for Lars to reprise the role of thrawn in the future.
i think thrawn was perfectly intimidating in rebels, and i went into it without prior knowledge of who he was. i thought he was frightening enough, especially for children, because the show had to stay at a y-7 rating, and they still managed to let him bomb civilians to prove a point. i think people are still holding on to the legends version so tightly they can't enjoy another interpretation- which is what you were saying at the end, and because it's not exactly like the books, they are strangling their own enjoyment. i ended up reading the new trilogy, and really enjoying it, and i believe they were also consulting timothy zahn during rebels to make sure thrawn was in line with what he had written. i personally think a lot of people didn't give rebels a fair chance when it came out, i know i was put off after watching clone wars, but i think it stands pretty well as a piece of media on its own.
A few years ago you did some videos on Darth jar jar and asked for a second theory, so I’m posting here for visibility: There have been numerous videos citing the same evidence about the Darth Jar Jar theory, and there have been numerous videos poking holes and giving alternative solutions to some of the observations. Thor Skywalker has made a great video with a concise and strong willed argument against it, asking peers to come up with a *new* theory or rebuttal. So finally here it is, and as a big fan of Thor Skywalker that I love the civil discussions that occur in this community and I have immense respect for anyone reading with our united love of Star Wars: This theory or rebuttal will break down into three distinct sections: 1. We need to discuss intention versus reaction in what the expectations of George Lucas were and what he may have been trying to execute 2. Jar Jar is not the BIG trilogy reveal, but rather an Episode II reveal to Anakin. 3. This betrayal would be a major factor in Anakin’s fall to the dark side. So George Lucas wanted these films to rhyme like poetry. Instead of the cute Ewoks, Anakin kills a ton of younglings. Yoda was a likable character by the end of the film, but we find him slightly funny to annoying until we actually find out who he really is. Jar Jar was meant to be annoying, but also likable. It is a hard line to walk, and George Lucas was trying to not only get the fans to have that feeling, but also to show Anakin growing close to him. Anakin and Jar Jar had to have a strong relationship for the more novel part of this theory I would like to posit. Jar Jar was not going to be the main villain of the trilogy, but rather a twist ending in the second episode, and a large part of Anakin’s ultimate conversion to Darth Vader. Jar Jar as an old friend of Anakin is caught in a compromising position revealing he is not only force sensitive, but may be working against the Senate. He begs Anakin not to take him in, and while Anakin considers letting him go and is fighting him, Jar Jar slices off Anakin’s hand disarming him and he escapes. This deep betrayal strikes Anakin very deep and further pushes him towards the dark side. In Episode III General Grievous would have been Jar Jar as General of the droid factions. He would ultimately be killed at the hands of Anakin in the beginning of the film as a sign that he is giving into darker emotions. Then Anakin would violently force (no pun intended) Padme to give control to Palpatine. This turning of events shows Jar Jar as a secondary villain close to Anakin, trained by Sidious, who causes him great pain and with the perceived betrayals of the Jedi, Obi Wan, Padme, and gives a longer descent into Vader than the more sudden turns portrayed. This theory creates a very different role for Jar Jar Binks force sensitivity and possible dark side ties (I don’t know if he would have been a genuine Sith as opposed to someone Palpatine trained). Essentially, I think the Ockham’s Razor approach of asking what’s simplest would be: all of the superficial secondary villains were meant to be one villain, and a change of course occurred. When you mentioned how there were three years to develop Dooku, that is incorrect. Consider how much thought Lucas must have put into dropping Jar Jar. It’s not as if the immediate backlash made him decide then and there. He clearly cares about Jar Jar, and the significance of scrapping a character you like and spent time creating is a tough decision. They trusted Dooku because of Qui Gon, and the same could be said for Jar Jar in this role, and would illustrate Jar Jar rising in status in a more prominent fashion. Anakin’s murder of Jar Jar would be the murder of an old dear friend beginning the movie. In this way that Jar Jar *can* fit all of these roles, it would make sense that he was originally intended for those roles. Well now the ball is in your court and I am very excited for you to tear this apart lol. I’m a fan no matter what, and please do a heroes and villains on Jar Jar soon.
I find it fascinating that rebels is considered one of his weakest portrayals. Just from the context of Rebels, I fully believed the fears in the Ahsoka show that his return could be enough to reinstate the empire. He was incredibly perceptive and thoughtful and he basically always won unless his subordinates disobeyed him, or something came so wildly out of left field he could never have predicted it (and EVEN THEN, he took that into consideration and knew when it was time to leave). That alongside his threatening character design and incredible, g-man esque acting made him easily the most threatening thing in the empire in my eyes, behind only vader and the emperor himself. Plus, if you think about his plan in rebels, had the Tie Fighter Elite gone into mass production, the rebels would never have been able to storm the death star the way they do. He was so effective, that if not for the failings of others, he could've easily prevented the original trilogy from being a success story (assuming it wasn't already cemented as canon of course, lol, but fun to think about).
Thrawn as written by Timothy Zahn is one of the most well written bad guys ever. His new books are really great dare I say stellar and the old legends books are great too. What’s awesome is what a tactician he is and timothy really has him jump off the page at you.
It was really Thrawn's loyalty to the Emperor that proved his undoing in the old EU. Without knowing the corrupt nature of his predecessors he confidently employed his Nogeri bodyguards without realizing they had been betrayed to near extermination by the empire. It was only a matter of time before they would know the truth while the empire kept important actions secret from him.
I cant remember if I voted for this one. But I love Thrawn he will be getting much more attention in the future as his story is far from over. I like the twist on his character in his newer version. He gets a A for me.
I never knew much about Thrawn until I watched this video. Always thought he was just a clever villain made for rebels. Now I'm staying up until 3:30 in the morning looking up Thrawn's legacies. He's already made it to my top 5 favorite Star Wars characters at this point! Totally buying all those books and ready for a lore dump!
Someone most likely already said this but, I never really saw Thrawn as a villain, he believe at least in cannon it was a necessary evil. The way he handles his subordinates is how any real leader should. He helps develop their skills, and better themselves he doesn’t always tell them what to do or order them around. This earns him respect, and admiration. He earns their loyalty, and trust and in the cannon books makes him a likely able character, and an underdog due to his alien origins. I have not watched rebels but have seen most of the scenes regarding him. I have the EU trilogy but have not read it yet so I will get some hate for that. I think when I watch rebels I will be disappointed due to the evident plot armor in the show. To leave it at this, Thrawn is one of my personal favorites when it comes to characters, and I am glad they brought him to cannon, at least the books due him justice. It leaves me wanting more from him and the people he help grow as leader and critical thinkers, and me personally would love a Thrawn show, or a show with Eli Vanto and the chiss ascendancy.
I'll fully admit, I've never yet read the EU or Canon Thrawn novels, though I plan to at some point in my life, I've heard a lot about them, and know a lot about what Thrawn did in them and what he's like, but ultimately my main exposure to Thrawn was in Rebels, and maybe he was nerfed in Rebels, but even just his appearance in Rebels made him one of my favorite characters and my favorite "villain" in Star Wars
The Disney trilogy should have respected the old characters and made them the focus while providing good new ones to slowly transition to. It would be interesting to see a Legends rankings vs Disney rankings.
I would just like to say that 'Thrawn light' and 'diet Thrawn' is an excellent and hilarious way to put how he was in rebels. He was the 'skim milk' of Thrawns. Perfection.
Having Thrawn come back as the leader of the First Order would have been so awesome. And instead of Ben being the Force sensitive villain just imagine if Ezra fell to the dark side after being stuck with Thrawn for so many years. Thrawn could've manipulated him by their forced companionship after surviving together after Rebels. And with Ezra being a Sith he could use the world between world's to save Palpatine from his fall. It would've been better than just retreading dark empire like Disney did.
I don't think Thrawn would turn Ezra to the Dark Side. Thrawn does not have the same values as a Sith. in my opinion, Thrawn acts more like a Jedi than a Sith. Sith are passionate and selfish, Thrawn is calm and calculating.
@@jasomjensai-starwars2652 Yeah I see what you're saying. Thrawn is cruel in his own way. I guess turning Ezra into a sith isn't accurate wording. A dark force user would be better. Kinda like how Ezra was using the dark side while he was with Maul, he wasn't sith just a dark side user. I think Thrawn would have a corrupting influence on him like Maul did.
My introduction to him was in Rebels, and I think I have a warmer attitude towards that show than most Star Wars fans (not as good as Clone Wars, sure, but I really and thoroughly did enjoy watching it). I enjoyed Thrawn's portrayal in that show. Cold, calculating, much more suave than other Imperial characters. Was he watered down for a kid's show? Yes. But I'd still say for what Rebels was he was well done. Of course, now I'm reading the original Thrawn Trilogy and he has much more depth to him which I appreciate. But I really do enjoy both versions of him. I'll have to get around to reading the new Canon Thrawn trilogy eventually.
Thrawn is a biy special, I'm one of the fans who don't know him so well. But everything I read, see or hear about him made me give him an A that says a lot about how great and interesting he is. He also looks great, the blue skin and red eyes.
I only know Thrawn from the Rebels series and I quite liked him. However, I couldn't help but to notice he was pretty much a butcher, bluer version of Tarkin. So while I do like him more than any officer in the Sequel trilogy, he still kinda pales in comparison to the majestic and threatening calm of Tarkin.
Through my life as a Star Wars fan I've only seen Thrawn in Rebels. I obviously knew of the character and did research on him on Wookiepedia as I've never had access to the novels but I have to say that I absolutely love Thrawn in the show. He is a refreshing change of pace for Star Wars villains as his analytical and methodical thought process is truly something unique. I honestly am fine with the Ghost Crew just barley escaping him as he is the one who usually let's them go. Phoenix Cell isn't his main objective, rather Mon Mothma's main bulk of the Rebel Alliance is. I feel that the writers did an excellent job at nerfing him without it seeming too unbelievable because let's be honest, if these nerfs weren't present in this show, he would've crushed Phoenix Squadron with ease. I love how Thrawn's appreciation for art and culture shines through and enables him to study his opponents. Again, I haven't read the Timothy Zahn novels (Canon or EU and I definitely will/want to read them) but in my opinion, Thrawn truly is one of the greatest, most innovative Star Wars villains to date.
I wouldn't say nerfed in Rebels, just they relied in contrivances to catch him off guard: incompetent officers getting cocky or things which Thrawn couldn't predict because they never showed them to Thrawn(Ezra´s beastmaster abilities). Still every situation in which they got away of Thrawn the heroes got to pay a price for it: none of them was a cheap shot. Even when he was just testing them or in minor encounters they still had to pay small prices to get away from Thrawn. The kids show put very clearly that with Thrawn you can only win in a battle having a better army and a better strategist. At the end of the day the Rebels had almost no army against the Empire and strategically they weren't really doing the unexpected(Thrawn saw through them in all instances). Thrawn was just surrounded by incompetents in commanding positions who on top of that didn't appeared to listen to him too much
@deidian I understand, I really only used the word nerfed as that is how many fans of the old novels feel about him. As this was really my first introduction to the character, I really enjoyed how he was able to use his deduction and spatial reasoning, even as he was surrounded by his inocmpitenent subordinates. Again, as I stated, I love how the Rebel Alliance uses their wits and strategy to outmenouver him. While they didn't completely nerf him, he's not as intense in Rebels as he is in the novels and comics. While in the novels he is more ruthless, I love how they integrated his reservations and his desire to capture the entire Rebel Fleet as his main objective. Through this, they added to his complexity and allowed the viewer to understand his thought process, which provided for an excellent and drawn out 2-season-arc. I don't understand your reasoning as to mentioning that Rebels is a kids' show and how that contributes to the discussion, however I disagree that the ONLY way in which Thrawn can be beaten is due to superior startegists and a better army. Granted, Thrawn's subordinates are incompetent and the Rebellion has some tricks up their sleeves and this contributes to his downfall, but the main reason why he loses in the show is because of the Force. He does NOT see the Purrgil or The Bendu intervening in the conflict because that's not how his mind works. He only accepts the rational and plausible outcomes, so when this occurs, he is caught off guard. While he doesn't lose on Atallon when the Rebels flee, his is definitely defeated by Ezra and the Purrgil. Bendu states "You cannot see. But I can. I see your defeat. Like many arms surrounding you in a cold embrace." Thrawn obviously can't physically see this, but mentally he cannot and will not. This quote presents a deeper meaning. Because of his reliance on his tactiaclity and practicality, he looses sight of his potential down fall. Again, he does not account for this as it is not even a possibility for him. That's what I really like about Rebels as whole. The Rebels are able to succeed due to their plans based faith and a trust in the force. Thrawn and the Empire do not see this, so that is a major driving force in their approaches to conflict. I'm not saying that the writers make him weaker, I'm just saying that with a character like Thrawn, they needed to be careful with how they wrote him to ensure an engaging and enthralling season, and I feel that they did exactly that. It all fits his character and his personality. I'm not criticizing Rebels at all, I'm actually really happy with the way in which they handleld him and how brilliant the writing is. I'm very happy with how Thrawn is represented in Rebels.
@@bradena3552 You are limited by your knowledge: Thrawn doesn't know or can experiment the Force personally. He does know something though: he's capable of deducting that Ezra gained access to his office using a mind trick, but that's a well known Force ability in general. Ezra's ability to empathize with almost every living being isn't something often seen among Force users. Still Thrawn in Rebels is pragmatically ruthless, but generally stopped by his superiors: A)In his attack in Atollon his idea is just crushing Phoenix squadron, period. He has to include in his tactics capturing the leaders alive so Tarkin can make an "example"(hints of public well announced executions) of them, which obviously complicates getting results. Otherwise he will just crush them using the fleet(full aerial attack), but since he needs to capture key targets alive he plots it in two phases: aerial attack to weaken them and then a ground assult to sweep and capture the leaders. This results in a longer overall assault giving Ezra enough time to gather allies and deliver a surprise strike that allows scape of Phoenix squadron. Combine it with Konstantine stupidity of breaking formation, which creates a crack in the blockade that allows Ezra to leave to get reinforcements and you just get how Thrawn got screwed here. Imagine yourself in his shoes here: he had everything tied up. Full scale aerial attack with a blockade and blows Phoenix squadron out of the Galaxy, it's done, rebelling against the Empire has a deadly price, message delivered. But he needs to please Tarkin to meet his flamboyant criteria and it all goes south when he only manages to hurt the Phoenix squadron, but leaders survive and scape along with several troops. B)Lothal battle goes more or less the same. If it was only Thrawn he would just arrive and start wrecking havok the same way he did: put his destroyer over the Dome and start opening fire to the ground. He doesn't need Ezra to surrender at all: he can kill him too with all others. Thrawn arrived to Lothal 100% convinced that he was going to destroy everything around just to make an example because his TIE Defender project got thrashed by the Rebels: there wasn't anything of interest to him anymore in Lothal at that point, it was just to deliver the message than defying Thrawn doesn't play well when he's in a position of power. It was Palpatine who specifically wanted Ezra, so basically we are here again. Thrawn's default strategy gets delayed by a superior because they demand something and because of that Sabine leads the Rebels on ground to get the shield up to stand bombarment for a time avoiding casualties and Mart calls the purgils to Lothal while Ezra stalls time by surrendering. Once the shields are up and the purgils there Ezra made his move and 'won', but his move was always going to be slower than Thrawn's, hence bound to failure unless he could stall time, which was what Palpatine need for him gave. I sincerely believe that if all was up to Thrawn tactics they would all be dead, because he will just smash them the moment he could have them where he wanted. Instead Thrawn got to give a wide berth twice on his plots and that gave the Rebels chances to make their own plots and achieve some degree of success with way less resources. PS: Ezra wasn't running on faith. He's shown meditating at some point, there's subtle hints that he knows what lies ahead and it's later reveled that he knew beforehand that he might need to sacrifice for the sake of the others. I generally take that he was peeking into the future all that time and making his own plots based on a number of potential futures he had foreseen.
@@deidian635 I understand your point, however I am not limited in my knowledge. You just restated my case and proved my point. You just said that you personally believe that if it was entirely up to Thrawn, then the Rebels would be destoryed. That's my entire argument. If Thrawn was in command without all of his subordinates and unexpected errors, he would have been able to crush the Rebels. As you mentioned, with the skirmish on Atollon, he needs to bring the Rebels alive to Tarkin and as you stated, this gives Ezra, the Mandalorians and the Rebels enough time to come to the rescue and escape. Because of these constraints, he can't just have his way with them. The same goes for Palpatine's request for Thrawn to bring Ezra before him, which enables Ezra to stall this allowing Sabine, Mart, and the others to carry out the plan. There are all of these obstacles and conditions that Thrawn needs to meet, so he can't just straight up obliterate them. That's why I find the writing so clever. It's a believable way for Thrawn to lose, yet still put up a fight with the Rebels. It's a sort of checks and balances system that the writers put in place to ensure an interesting arc that sees our heroes pushed to their limit yet enables them to come out on top. Dave Filoni says this: "We knew we needed to pace Thrawn out. As exciting as it was to bring him in, it also presented a lot of difficulties because I was determined not to have him losing on a weekly basis. That would just have been terrible, so we created scenarios where it was reasonable that he was involved, but it was not his fault if they lost." And in regards to Ezra, he, to some extent needs his faith in the Force. He has a feeling on how everything is supposed to end, however he doesn't exactly know how to get there. As seen in Season 1, Ezra's future vision when rescuing Gall Trayvis doesn't go the way he enviosned it. It's not like he gets a clear picture and can just go off of that. He needs to place his trust in the will of the Force and his friends so his mission remains successful. All in all, Thrawn is expertly written in this show. He still maintains his identity from the EU, however he is given a new story and a new purpose that really works. My entire point from the beginning was that I understand the difficult task that writer undertook in order to make Thrawn believable while allowing him to still be a threat. I don't know why you drew it out into this huge debate when you essentially restated my initial argument. The writers did a phenomenal job and that's my point at the end of the day. Clearly you misunderstood that.
@@bradena3552 My whole point is just for the usage of the word nerfed. I just wanted to highlight in the debate that Thrawn hasn't been portrayed in Rebels in a less dangerous way: he's incredibly dangerous, but his superiors in the Empire forced him to try to chew more and that lead to his failure when it wasn't neccesary so much to defeat the Rebels. There's no faith with visions at least, basically because they don't tell you about your choices, they tell you about predictions of what's likely to happen. It would be too easy if the Force really told the force-sensitives what they are intended to do based on an external will. The Force is about precognition, telepathy and empathy in abilities that don't have 'direct effects' so summing it up you just have more information about things but you have to choose and plan without anything guiding you where to go. For storywriting purposes though if a vision is seen then it has to happen later just because it creates tension which needs to be resolved in the story. So scenes portrayed in visions will happen, but in the vision some information will be missing that allows writers to "change" the vision. But these are technicallities of writing.
I loved thrawn in rebels because I knew very little of his character in eu. I basically started watching rebels not knowing anything about the main characters except for the characters you see in the movies and clone wars
I opted out of voting as I was unfamiliar with the character. Having since watched Rebels I was very impressed. Being someone who doesnt consume books, novels, etc I am intrigued at the idea that Thrawn is more of a threat....and a lil terrified.
Thrawn is the best imperial. I second the ST should have been an adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy or something like it that ends with Luke having a vision of a dangerous threat aka the Vong and this has been interpreted of Luke and from us as the audience as a test to see if they are ready to face whats coming. That could have led to a sequel TV series where these stories of the new Jedi order or Force user order that has reformed old teachings of the Jedi, and the new republic's structure is seen.
I was introduced to thrawn by rebels(it was my intro to Star Wars as a whole) and at first I was really intrigued, then I started reading the new canon books and woooooowwwwww! He is definitely top three villain after vader and sidious
If you haven’t read the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn, you don’t know how awesome this character is. Rebels nerfed him a bit too much despite being a good villain
For me Timothy Zahn's books are the mainline story of Episode VI aftermath. More than that, I "met" vice-admiral not only in the books but also I flew under Thrawn's command conducting his cunning plans to catch admital Zaarin in "TIE Fighter" space-simulation game... Oh, youth, it was 22 years ago! The books are thrilling and written crafly and carefully within laws of the canon. It felt as clear as day that the writer's sympathy was with the blue-skinned genius. The new young Republic and its leaders were so many steps behind him. And yet they managed to defeat him. I wish Disney could take Zahn's books for the sequel. How could things go so wrong both in our reality and in the galaxy far, far away..
Thrawn was great in his first appearances, but he wasn't always perfectly written. Sometimes Zahn went a but too far, giving Thrawn knowledge that he couldn't possibly have, which is a common fault when authors try to write geniuses.
This touches on something I loved about how he was portrayed in Rebels: normally, geniuses are really hard to write well, because it's nearly impossible to convincingly write someone who's supposed to be significantly smarter than the author themselves. Usually it's done badly, either by having the character make implausible leaps of logic or by simply dumbing down everyone around them (or both). But the thing about Rebels was that it was fundamentally a kid's show, and as such it was ALREADY a little dumbed down, just because of the nature of the format. Everyone had at least one finger on the idiot ball at all times. Watching as an adult, you just sort of had to get used to it and incorporate it into your willing suspension of disbelief. Enter Thrawn. By simply NOT being dumbed down in the way that everyone else was, he was able to come across as dangerously intelligent, even if his tactics and insights weren't actually all that extraordinary if viewed from a step back. To me, it seemed like a brilliant way of leveraging what's normally an inherent limitation of the format to tell the type of story that can otherwise be incredibly hard to tell well. For that alone, my hat's off to the Rebels writers.
He was great in Star Wars: Rebels. Can We please see this guy in the near future in the Star Wars Universe -- both Live Action and Animated? Thor, how cool is it that the next animated Star Wars series from Disney + and Dave Filoni will be, STAR WARS: The Bad Batch?!
Thrawn in Canon is A-, he's a well done character, but seemingly Disney couldn't quite figure out how he worked, just how he managed to score so many victories against the Rebels, or how the Rebels were ever able to defeat him, and so opted for making everyone around him less intelligent and less competent than they'd been shown to be in earlier scenes. That said, I actually think Thrawn is one of the few things Disney has done (almost) as well as you could ever have expected from them, and I'll just remain glad that he's not hidden behind the pages of legend (get it? I'll see myself out). I'd love to see more EU characters incorporated into canon, and if they're done hair as well as Thrawn was, it'll be worth it to see them on screen. This said... Legends Thrawn was just something else entirely. A master in all senses of the word at manipulation, prediction, tactics and warfare. That was always my favourite thing about him: his strength isn't brute force, or the Force, or anything else that Star Wars likes to draw on to show a character's power. His strength is and was his intelligence, doubly so in the Legends era. The fact that he managed to use the Force to his advantage on multiple occasions, a phenomenon about which he had no way of knowing much at all, as well as very nearly capturing each of the main cast multiple times, plus calling a (rather clever, I thought) ruse by Han and Leia simply based on timing and what little he'd been told, made him ten times more terrifying. Anyway, that's just my two cents. I know this video's two years old, so it's not likely anyone will see this, but that's basically how I feel about the character.
Henry Cavill I think it's too big for him to portray Thrawn. The Thrawn we see in Legends is actually a bit more slender than Henry Cavill's body. I think someone like Tom Hiddleston would be better.
Still can't figure out why there was some f scoring while he was diluted in rebels and i have not seen that show yet i can say from the general thoughts i have had expressed and seen online he was done well. His 2 sources of lore eu and rebels therefore both are thought of to be very good quality would love to know why some considered him that low.
Thrawn was the best SW villain. Fight me. That being said I still believe the Sequel trilogy should have been the NJO arc with the Vong. The theme for SW is dark over light, light over dark, and the force over all... As an EU delver that made the most sense. Anakin allowed his light to be corrupted but then Luke showed him the selflessness of the light again and via Anakin's redemption Luke raises a much more understanding and specifically "the living force" centered Jedi order. In turn, when an alien race invades it takes the NJO, the Imperial Remnants, and the New Republic all working collectively to defeat them. It truly conveys the concept, that with Luke at the helm, the Sith won't arise ever again and that by combining the ideals of the Republic, with the structure of the Imperials and the understanding of the Jedi that peace will be everlasting... I have spoken.
Even if many believe the canon version is inferior, the way they characterized him with his soft-spoken voice actor, intelligence, and organ theme music still made him a villain that would scare the hell out of me if he were real.
I mean heck, I only knew him from Rebels. And I still voted him an A rank.... If even a watered-down version of the character resonated with me that much. That shows how good of a character he truly is. (And honestly, I really want to read the original Thrawn trilogy. Disney's canon has just simply left a sour taste in my mouth after TLJ....)
I think part of the problem at this point with rating characters is that the RUclips polling system just isn't granular enough. If they had a 10 point scale instead of 5, it would be easier to come up with a vote. But as it is, there are characters I like, and who maybe deserve an "A", but not an "A+". I don't think they are on par with Vader, but my only choice is "same grade as Vader" or "lower than is really deserved". The same thing is already true in the ratings for arcs from "The Clone Wars'.
I saw him in Rebels first which is why I like him better there and I think the only reason people like him better in the original books is because they saw him first
The only thing that stopped thrawn in lrgends were the invariables of like the smugglers or was it mercenaries in legends i don't remember, and in this canon it was plot armor that stopped him, but man he was a villain that surpasses sidious who uses manipulation and vader using the force, thrawn is like the 3rd variable that uses intellect which makes him terrifying as you may not know ehat he already knows
Btw it’s been confirmed that the Bad Batch from the clone wars are getting their own show. www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-bad-batch-series-announce What do you guys think of that?
Late to the game again!! Lol. There's something about the Zahn trilogy that stands out to me versus the sequel trilogy, it's a very big difference. The sequels as we all know now were made Without a plan and what they did come up with didnt FEEL RIGHT. YET THE Zahn trilogy DID Feel RIGHT. The Mandalorian comes from the same cut of cloth as the Zahn books. What they have in common is what I call Logical Character and Universal Story Progression. The Zahn books continued the Skywalker Saga while also introducing a wide variety of New Characters like Thrawn, Mara Jade who would go from the Emperors favorite assassin to Luke's Wife. Leia's best friend, confidante, advisor and caretaker of her children Winter. We saw a Version of Winter in the Last Jedi in Admiral Holdo. The Zahn books and characters offered and added to our beloved universe in a way that was New but Also Felt Right for the setting. Even the Dark Horse Comics Ttempt at a Direct Sequel story that comes a few years after the end of Return of the Jedi in Dark Empire, that was Totally STAR Wars as well and it provided a new story to fill the gap until the Prequels came out. Each OG character from Luke to Lando all not only Acted as we all would imagine them to but Expanded and broadened upon everything. Yet with the sequels...we saw None of Any of that. VISUALLY its ALL there. But its SPFX Dressing making up for a lack of story. We saw our Beloved OG crew basically Dismissed and not even remotely living up to their potential development and overall success to add and Enhance the adventure. Not even story telling Basics were adhered to here. All three films were based upon an ASSUMPTION that fans would buy it regardless Because it Called Star Wars and Looks Like Star Wars so it in Theory should Sell like Star Wars has in the past. Disney and Kennedy treated it like a Turn Key franchise purchase. You Buy into it and a crew comes in to set up your restaurant like Subway, Starbucks, McDonald's etc. And it just makes money from the Formula and Production. They tweaked visuals to be new enough to Avoid paying Lucas Royalties and stayed as far away from OG material as possible ...to Avoid Paying Royalties. They made Surrogate character's like the admittedly likeable BB-8 to stand in for R2-D2 because less seen meant More Momey for them as BB-8 becomes the new character instead for fans to buy merch for where No Money gets paid to Lucas in Royalties. Every decision made was based on Maximizing Profits after spending 4Billion bucks buying it that Story...and the New Management absolutely NEEDING to EARN the Loyalty of the fans being completely taken for Granted...story became an After thought. One that would by the end of TLJ shown Disney just how Much they had taken for granted. Story is EVERYTHING. The Visuals are only A PART of that equation. If the characters and their challenges arent Compelling, if theres no Growyh, no world life experience observations then...its a macguffin hunt through a Sci Fi setting that doesnt Mean anything. Both Disney and EA Games have done their best to take complete Predatory Advantage of the IP to the point where story....means next to nothing.
Thrawn was better in old EU but in cannon he is done great considering it was a kids show. But after the new trilogy with him it makes me think that Ezra actually saved him from the repercussions of his failure to rid Lothal of the rebels. Can't wait for the next books about him coming not soon enough.
Undoubtedly a great character, my biggest problem with at point is the fact that his character is widely different depicted in the source material. The legends Thrawn I would rate a B maybe a B+, my reasoning being the fact that we only see the character through the eyes of those around him, primarily captain Gilad Pellaeon who I always saw as the true star of that trilogy. Because of this structure all the reasoning behind his plans and strategy become speculations and many most of the time that Thrawn actually provides explanation it feels at bit lackluster, at least from my point of view.
This guy really should have been the sequel villain. A not-force-user overall bad guy. But that would have required good writing. I'm currently reading timothy Zahns original novels after I binge read his new trilogy. Thrawn's story is amazing
Respond to this comment with your nomination for which character we should do next, or vote with a thumbs up if they're already listed.
Also, a video discussing my thoughts/reactions to the announcement of the new “Bad Batch” animated series will be up tomorrow. But for now I’ll just say I have mixed feelings about this…
Nein nunb
Cad bane
Lando
Rey Palpatine
Mara jade
“I do not require glory. Only results, for my emperor.” -Thrawn.
A underrated quote.
That’s thrawn
“You misunderstand, Captain. I'm not accepting surrenders at this time; I want you to know failure, utter defeat, crashing down upon you, and for you to know that it is I that delivers it to you.”
Rebels Thrawn is honestly very underrated. Amazing character.
The one thing Rebels did perfectly with him was his voice
And his theme.
@@luhedi6303 *ORGAN*
His voice wets my panties. Like everything else about him.
No, I will never be sorry for saying that.
Actually I disagree. I understand how many find his voice in Rebels to be rather artistically done, but I myself find it somewhat excessive. Too villainy, if you will. It does present that calm aspect of Thrawn, but to the point where he speaks his words almost lazily with a slight lack of distinction. I’d prefer a more simple sounding voice, and perhaps slightly deeper. For contrast, something far less dramatically unique than, for example, Vader or Palpatine’s voice. Something more human... but with just a hint of his own uniqueness. (calm yet distinct - a little more to the point). And while on the same page of a more /human/ feel, I could see someone using that idea to justify the design change of Thrawn’s eyes in Rebels from pure, solid red to layered, human-like red. Yet, in my eyes the original design mirrored perfectly the unknown intent or strategy of Thrawn. You never knew which way he was really looking... never quite knew where, when, why, or how he would make his next move.
trie the version of thrawn from the german version of rebels. i think it soundsgreat too
How I wish that Thrawn had been the main villain of the Sequel Trilogy; like he *should* have been.
To do that, the writers would have needed to watch the existing movies and read the existing books, which obviously wasn't going to happen.
@@anlumo1 I think they even forgot about the Prequels
anlumo1 But, but, but there is no source material!!
I'mTheReverse the Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, New Jedi Order, Yuzahn Vong, Legacy Era, and George’s Story Treatments: *”are we a joke to you?”*
Slender Man 186 Kathleen Kennedy: yez
He is my absolute favorite Villain of Star Wars. He deserves way more love
Nathan Nissim very true
Yes! My favorite villain of all time
He's my favourite Star Wars character but I think overall placed fairly in the ranking.
He deserves more respect than Rebels showed him that’s for sure
He deserves way more respect from Lucasfilm, that's for sure
Let's do another Timothy Zahn character next.
My vote is for Mara Jade Skywalker. The character who altered Luke's life the most in a positive way after Luke completed his arc involving his father.
Jonathan Ryan we also need captain palleon, who essentially carries on thrawn's legacy
@@whitneylackenbauer9782 agreed!
I don't want ant legends Characters
@@friidrottskarlsson3878 that's a dumb thing to not want
Although I tend to prefer the Legends version, where he feels more realistic compared to the New Canon version, Grand Admiral Thrawn is a fresh take on a Star Wars villain for the simple reason that he is more of an intellectual threat than a physical threat and that forces the heroes to grow and solve problems in ways we hadn't seen before.
Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine were based around a fairly simple concept where no matter how strong Luke became, they would always be stronger so long as he refused to go down the same path that they had. And in the end, Luke overcomes them not be being stronger, but by being better. By refusing to fight if it means having to become an even greater monster.
Enter Thrawn. He's not Force sensitive. He's not some supreme duelist. And he's not at the helm of some awesome doomsday device. Instead, he's just frighteningly smart. All that bravery and faith that carried them through the original trilogy (wherein they never saw a trap that they didn't walk straight into) is no longer enough to carry the day.
laughs in Galaxy Gun
@@goodmind4940 Did Thrawn have anything to do with the Galaxy Gun?
What do you guys think about the new series that has just been announced? It will probably consist in large parts of Dee Bradley Baker talking to himself
Curious to see how they will keep it fresh and interesting.
Seth MacFarlane talks to himself a lot in Family Guy and American Dad
I hope it wont be like the "dark" times in rebels
@Rebecca Black What?
I wish they finished the story of Rebels. imagine a series where Thrawn and Ezra are on an alien planet in the unknown regions and they have to work together to survive while Sabine and Ahsoka are searching for Ezra.
Thrawn in legends is a beast but canon Thrawn is still cool. His character by far was the best part of Rebels for me.
It kept me watching
So when is Hondo Ohnaka getting his deserved number 1 spot?
Yes!!!
Hondo is Awesome!
It’s just business
Hondo would have to be Jonny Depp for a live action version, due to the fact that I believe Hondo is an alien version of Capt Jack Sparrow.
@@bfin hell yeah
Thrawn is just an outstanding military leader compared to all the other villains who are either a Nazi, a dark wizard, or crime boss.
so true! Thrawn feels refreshing because he is just so much more calculating than everyone else. although Palpatine is a pretty smart politician.
Idk if Grand Moff Tarkin would fall into the Nazi category. I definitely know he isn't a Sith Lord or a crime boss
Jasom Jensai well, until he started getting older, he became like a “Darth Biden”
They play checkers, Thrawn plays 3D chess.
Agreed
Mitth'raw'nuruodo😍💙
Thrawn! one of my favourite characters & the Chiss one of my favourite species in Star Wars!
First introduction was through Zahn's Thrawn novel and i instantly fell in love with character. Afterwards i read his legends trilogy and was treated with another perspective of his character that made him even more intriguing.
His loyalty, his warrior instincts and his militant tactical mind all while being focused and calm truly a one of a kind character. Cant wait for the next novel 1st of September. 💙💙
There’s a new Thrawn novel coming out? That’s cool! I’ve been putting off reading the books, even though he sounds like precisely my kind of character: the brilliant strategist. Thank you for the news! 8)
Like Count Dooku, Thrawn is a underrated character.
Thrawn >>>>>> Dooku
No, Thrawn is an 'overrated' character.
He is one of the most fascinating villains period
When picture at 1:22 poped up, first thing i thought was Star Wars Reading Club channel
If not for meeEEeeEEee...
... Then for gratuitous space whaaaaaales.
Lmao same 😂😂😂
@@christianyaerger1751 ha! Nice
Personally they should have made the Thrawn EU trilogy canon as something that did still happen inbetween 6 and 7 (and 7 - 9 being George's story) and after the movies were done, they could have made an animated series of those books with of course slight changes they needed to fit with current timeline they're making, eventually filling the gap between the movies and show with other media.
That certainly would have kept Star Wars more stabilized then what's happening now.
You know that writers of 7 would have needed to continue characters of Luke, Leia, Mara jade, jacen and jaina solo if that happened, they couldn't even not botch OT characters, what would have happened to those? Thrawn trilogy introduces all of those characters
I’ve been looking forward to this
My powers have grown since the last time we’ve met count
JK Network Good Twice the pride double the fall
Sith lords are our speciality
Grand Admiral Thor!
Thrawn IS THE GREATEST VILLIAN/Character in all of Star Wars to me
My absolute Favorite
One of the most overhyped for me.
Villain is a strong word. After all, he seeks to protect the galaxy from the serious and real threats that lurk from within the unknown regions of the Star Wars Galaxy. If anything, he's a cold anti hero that sees the bigger picture.
Rebels didn't do Thrawn justice, but they managed to not trash his character or his reputation.
He was beaten by space whales.
@@Good100 agreed
@@dancingvalkyrie The fact that tehy had to deus ex machina out of the situation only proves that even Diet Thrawn was more than they could match otherwise. Same thing with the Bendu in their previous encounter.
@@midasderrek It demonstrates bad writing more than anything
I kinda don't like the term villain. That sounds so... evil. And upon reading the new Thrawn trilogy, if there's one person in the Empire who's not evil, it's him. He always minimizes deaths, both imperial and others. He knows the Empire's corrupt and hopes he can change that. He's the designated bad guy in Rebels, but even there he rarely comes off as evil. He's really just doing his job there. To me, he's truly a hero.
He's an antagonist
Maybe not HERO, but I agree on everything else.
Hero is a strong word but I agree with everything else
Anti-Hero or anti-villain?
Super Kid yeah, like in both legends and canon he is fighting for the greater good.
Thrawn is a better hero than Rey.
Change my mind.
I am sure rey is even better in strategies then thrawn
Captain America: No I don't think I will
jb joli yes because she is the best at everything from start to end without any help or training.
Not even that mary sue could out-hero Thrawn.
Why change your mind when your right
Disney could not have made a 1-to-1 adaptation, but I think they could have used Zahn's books as a template with an adjusted timeline and it likely would have been a better result than what we got. Something of a combination of Heir and Academy, still heavily featuring the next generation of Skywalkers and Solos.
Thrawn wasn’t predictable in his tactics whereas the Sith were much more. He was a character that you respected and saw him as a serious threat due to his demeanor and intelligence driven not by blind anger as the Sith, but a colder and more calculated mentality. Thrawn’s character was written as if he had all of the knowledge of Sun-Tzu.
Here are some Awesome Thrawn stories:
- Outbound Flight
- Thrawn (Novel)
Thrawn Trilogy:
- Heir to the Empire
- Dark Force Rising
- The Last Command
Thrawn Duology:
- Spector of the Past
- Vision of the Future
Great list!
Rebels seems to be showing off a young, non-actualized Thrawn. one we might see reach his full height later
Not really, he's already grand admiral
Kevin, get this man a plaque!
I know nothing about Legends Thrawn but I think Canon Thrawn is an amazing I'm re-listening to the first book in the new Thrawn Trilogy and am excited for the Thrawn Ascendancy Trilogy of books the first of which comes out the 1st of September
I think the EU trilogie has an audiobook too (with sounds and music)
*"Author Timothy Zahn has stated that Thrawn's character is a composite of various historical and fictional personalities, including Erwin Rommel, Robert E. Lee, Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great, and Sherlock Holmes, to name a few."*
Nuff said!
The finest quality of course!
Short answer is he created a glorified villain-stu.
Been playing a lot of Empire at War lately, and I really feel Thrawn. He is just such a fascinating character with cunning strategy, ruthless prosecution and cold-blooded action while maintaining a somewhat positive image. I did not see the vote but it's defiantly a 5/5 for me, him in the Thrawn trilogy etc is just such a great character.
Although I like Disney's interpretation of thrawn he was better in the EU. Especially in the hand of thrawn Timothy zahn series
I defy anyone to disagree with this comment
They're both overated.
I just recently started getting into the EU, and read The Thrawn Trilogy. I’ve been captivated by Thrawn ever since.
“Diet Thrawn.” 😂😂
While rebels didn’t do Thrawn as well as Timothy Zahn does, the way I could really tell they did him pretty well was that I was rooting for him over the ghost crew and I had no idea who he was when I watched rebels. Now after reading the Legends books I realize he is way better than rebels could have shown being a kids show.
He’s the thinking mans villain. He’s so suave and meticulous you can’t help but watch him win and like it
As a person who grew up watching Lars and Mads Mikkelsen I really genuinely love how they both brothers ended up in Star Wars cannon. I truly hope for Lars to reprise the role of thrawn in the future.
i think thrawn was perfectly intimidating in rebels, and i went into it without prior knowledge of who he was. i thought he was frightening enough, especially for children, because the show had to stay at a y-7 rating, and they still managed to let him bomb civilians to prove a point. i think people are still holding on to the legends version so tightly they can't enjoy another interpretation- which is what you were saying at the end, and because it's not exactly like the books, they are strangling their own enjoyment. i ended up reading the new trilogy, and really enjoying it, and i believe they were also consulting timothy zahn during rebels to make sure thrawn was in line with what he had written. i personally think a lot of people didn't give rebels a fair chance when it came out, i know i was put off after watching clone wars, but i think it stands pretty well as a piece of media on its own.
A few years ago you did some videos on Darth jar jar and asked for a second theory, so I’m posting here for visibility:
There have been numerous videos citing the same evidence about the Darth Jar Jar theory, and there have been numerous videos poking holes and giving alternative solutions to some of the observations. Thor Skywalker has made a great video with a concise and strong willed argument against it, asking peers to come up with a *new* theory or rebuttal. So finally here it is, and as a big fan of Thor Skywalker that I love the civil discussions that occur in this community and I have immense respect for anyone reading with our united love of Star Wars:
This theory or rebuttal will break down into three distinct sections:
1. We need to discuss intention versus reaction in what the expectations of George Lucas were and what he may have been trying to execute
2. Jar Jar is not the BIG trilogy reveal, but rather an Episode II reveal to Anakin.
3. This betrayal would be a major factor in Anakin’s fall to the dark side.
So George Lucas wanted these films to rhyme like poetry. Instead of the cute Ewoks, Anakin kills a ton of younglings. Yoda was a likable character by the end of the film, but we find him slightly funny to annoying until we actually find out who he really is. Jar Jar was meant to be annoying, but also likable. It is a hard line to walk, and George Lucas was trying to not only get the fans to have that feeling, but also to show Anakin growing close to him. Anakin and Jar Jar had to have a strong relationship for the more novel part of this theory I would like to posit.
Jar Jar was not going to be the main villain of the trilogy, but rather a twist ending in the second episode, and a large part of Anakin’s ultimate conversion to Darth Vader. Jar Jar as an old friend of Anakin is caught in a compromising position revealing he is not only force sensitive, but may be working against the Senate. He begs Anakin not to take him in, and while Anakin considers letting him go and is fighting him, Jar Jar slices off Anakin’s hand disarming him and he escapes. This deep betrayal strikes Anakin very deep and further pushes him towards the dark side.
In Episode III General Grievous would have been Jar Jar as General of the droid factions. He would ultimately be killed at the hands of Anakin in the beginning of the film as a sign that he is giving into darker emotions. Then Anakin would violently force (no pun intended) Padme to give control to Palpatine. This turning of events shows Jar Jar as a secondary villain close to Anakin, trained by Sidious, who causes him great pain and with the perceived betrayals of the Jedi, Obi Wan, Padme, and gives a longer descent into Vader than the more sudden turns portrayed.
This theory creates a very different role for Jar Jar Binks force sensitivity and possible dark side ties (I don’t know if he would have been a genuine Sith as opposed to someone Palpatine trained). Essentially, I think the Ockham’s Razor approach of asking what’s simplest would be: all of the superficial secondary villains were meant to be one villain, and a change of course occurred. When you mentioned how there were three years to develop Dooku, that is incorrect. Consider how much thought Lucas must have put into dropping Jar Jar. It’s not as if the immediate backlash made him decide then and there. He clearly cares about Jar Jar, and the significance of scrapping a character you like and spent time creating is a tough decision. They trusted Dooku because of Qui Gon, and the same could be said for Jar Jar in this role, and would illustrate Jar Jar rising in status in a more prominent fashion. Anakin’s murder of Jar Jar would be the murder of an old dear friend beginning the movie. In this way that Jar Jar *can* fit all of these roles, it would make sense that he was originally intended for those roles.
Well now the ball is in your court and I am very excited for you to tear this apart lol. I’m a fan no matter what, and please do a heroes and villains on Jar Jar soon.
I'm baffled that at this point main characters like Padme, Leia, R2-D2, and C-3PO haven't won a single nomination! 😱
Yes! Enought of Clone Wars characters that nobody knows!
Yeah that's a shame.
That's how I imagine Hux just by looking at his photo and not seeing the movies.
I find it fascinating that rebels is considered one of his weakest portrayals. Just from the context of Rebels, I fully believed the fears in the Ahsoka show that his return could be enough to reinstate the empire. He was incredibly perceptive and thoughtful and he basically always won unless his subordinates disobeyed him, or something came so wildly out of left field he could never have predicted it (and EVEN THEN, he took that into consideration and knew when it was time to leave). That alongside his threatening character design and incredible, g-man esque acting made him easily the most threatening thing in the empire in my eyes, behind only vader and the emperor himself. Plus, if you think about his plan in rebels, had the Tie Fighter Elite gone into mass production, the rebels would never have been able to storm the death star the way they do. He was so effective, that if not for the failings of others, he could've easily prevented the original trilogy from being a success story (assuming it wasn't already cemented as canon of course, lol, but fun to think about).
Thrawn as written by Timothy Zahn is one of the most well written bad guys ever. His new books are really great dare I say stellar and the old legends books are great too. What’s awesome is what a tactician he is and timothy really has him jump off the page at you.
Thanks, perhaps maybe go into that trilogy for those who have never read and also for those that have.
It was really Thrawn's loyalty to the Emperor that proved his undoing in the old EU. Without knowing the corrupt nature of his predecessors he confidently employed his Nogeri bodyguards without realizing they had been betrayed to near extermination by the empire. It was only a matter of time before they would know the truth while the empire kept important actions secret from him.
I cant remember if I voted for this one. But I love Thrawn he will be getting much more attention in the future as his story is far from over. I like the twist on his character in his newer version. He gets a A for me.
I never knew much about Thrawn until I watched this video. Always thought he was just a clever villain made for rebels. Now I'm staying up until 3:30 in the morning looking up Thrawn's legacies. He's already made it to my top 5 favorite Star Wars characters at this point! Totally buying all those books and ready for a lore dump!
Someone most likely already said this but, I never really saw Thrawn as a villain, he believe at least in cannon it was a necessary evil. The way he handles his subordinates is how any real leader should. He helps develop their skills, and better themselves he doesn’t always tell them what to do or order them around. This earns him respect, and admiration. He earns their loyalty, and trust and in the cannon books makes him a likely able character, and an underdog due to his alien origins. I have not watched rebels but have seen most of the scenes regarding him. I have the EU trilogy but have not read it yet so I will get some hate for that. I think when I watch rebels I will be disappointed due to the evident plot armor in the show. To leave it at this, Thrawn is one of my personal favorites when it comes to characters, and I am glad they brought him to cannon, at least the books due him justice. It leaves me wanting more from him and the people he help grow as leader and critical thinkers, and me personally would love a Thrawn show, or a show with Eli Vanto and the chiss ascendancy.
I'll fully admit, I've never yet read the EU or Canon Thrawn novels, though I plan to at some point in my life, I've heard a lot about them, and know a lot about what Thrawn did in them and what he's like, but ultimately my main exposure to Thrawn was in Rebels, and maybe he was nerfed in Rebels, but even just his appearance in Rebels made him one of my favorite characters and my favorite "villain" in Star Wars
The Disney trilogy should have respected the old characters and made them the focus while providing good new ones to slowly transition to.
It would be interesting to see a Legends rankings vs Disney rankings.
Mara Jade next, please.
8:45
What do you mean? He began Star Wars in 1977 with A New Hope and ended it in 2005 with Revenge of the Sith. I thought that was obvious!
I would just like to say that 'Thrawn light' and 'diet Thrawn' is an excellent and hilarious way to put how he was in rebels. He was the 'skim milk' of Thrawns. Perfection.
Having Thrawn come back as the leader of the First Order would have been so awesome. And instead of Ben being the Force sensitive villain just imagine if Ezra fell to the dark side after being stuck with Thrawn for so many years. Thrawn could've manipulated him by their forced companionship after surviving together after Rebels.
And with Ezra being a Sith he could use the world between world's to save Palpatine from his fall. It would've been better than just retreading dark empire like Disney did.
I don't think Thrawn would turn Ezra to the Dark Side. Thrawn does not have the same values as a Sith. in my opinion, Thrawn acts more like a Jedi than a Sith. Sith are passionate and selfish, Thrawn is calm and calculating.
Marcus Bell that would be so cool but no both of them had to be kidnapped by space whales never to be seen or heard from again
@@jasomjensai-starwars2652 Yeah I see what you're saying. Thrawn is cruel in his own way. I guess turning Ezra into a sith isn't accurate wording. A dark force user would be better. Kinda like how Ezra was using the dark side while he was with Maul, he wasn't sith just a dark side user. I think Thrawn would have a corrupting influence on him like Maul did.
My introduction to him was in Rebels, and I think I have a warmer attitude towards that show than most Star Wars fans (not as good as Clone Wars, sure, but I really and thoroughly did enjoy watching it). I enjoyed Thrawn's portrayal in that show. Cold, calculating, much more suave than other Imperial characters. Was he watered down for a kid's show? Yes. But I'd still say for what Rebels was he was well done. Of course, now I'm reading the original Thrawn Trilogy and he has much more depth to him which I appreciate. But I really do enjoy both versions of him. I'll have to get around to reading the new Canon Thrawn trilogy eventually.
Thrawn is a biy special, I'm one of the fans who don't know him so well. But everything I read, see or hear about him made me give him an A that says a lot about how great and interesting he is. He also looks great, the blue skin and red eyes.
Spot on! 😊
Admiral Thrawn... The Sherlock Holmes of Star Wars
Without the interesting parts.
I only know Thrawn from the Rebels series and I quite liked him. However, I couldn't help but to notice he was pretty much a butcher, bluer version of Tarkin.
So while I do like him more than any officer in the Sequel trilogy, he still kinda pales in comparison to the majestic and threatening calm of Tarkin.
His score is roughly the same as Palpatine's. That speaks for itself.
Through my life as a Star Wars fan I've only seen Thrawn in Rebels. I obviously knew of the character and did research on him on Wookiepedia as I've never had access to the novels but I have to say that I absolutely love Thrawn in the show. He is a refreshing change of pace for Star Wars villains as his analytical and methodical thought process is truly something unique. I honestly am fine with the Ghost Crew just barley escaping him as he is the one who usually let's them go. Phoenix Cell isn't his main objective, rather Mon Mothma's main bulk of the Rebel Alliance is. I feel that the writers did an excellent job at nerfing him without it seeming too unbelievable because let's be honest, if these nerfs weren't present in this show, he would've crushed Phoenix Squadron with ease. I love how Thrawn's appreciation for art and culture shines through and enables him to study his opponents. Again, I haven't read the Timothy Zahn novels (Canon or EU and I definitely will/want to read them) but in my opinion, Thrawn truly is one of the greatest, most innovative Star Wars villains to date.
I wouldn't say nerfed in Rebels, just they relied in contrivances to catch him off guard: incompetent officers getting cocky or things which Thrawn couldn't predict because they never showed them to Thrawn(Ezra´s beastmaster abilities). Still every situation in which they got away of Thrawn the heroes got to pay a price for it: none of them was a cheap shot. Even when he was just testing them or in minor encounters they still had to pay small prices to get away from Thrawn. The kids show put very clearly that with Thrawn you can only win in a battle having a better army and a better strategist.
At the end of the day the Rebels had almost no army against the Empire and strategically they weren't really doing the unexpected(Thrawn saw through them in all instances). Thrawn was just surrounded by incompetents in commanding positions who on top of that didn't appeared to listen to him too much
@deidian I understand, I really only used the word nerfed as that is how many fans of the old novels feel about him. As this was really my first introduction to the character, I really enjoyed how he was able to use his deduction and spatial reasoning, even as he was surrounded by his inocmpitenent subordinates. Again, as I stated, I love how the Rebel Alliance uses their wits and strategy to outmenouver him. While they didn't completely nerf him, he's not as intense in Rebels as he is in the novels and comics. While in the novels he is more ruthless, I love how they integrated his reservations and his desire to capture the entire Rebel Fleet as his main objective. Through this, they added to his complexity and allowed the viewer to understand his thought process, which provided for an excellent and drawn out 2-season-arc. I don't understand your reasoning as to mentioning that Rebels is a kids' show and how that contributes to the discussion, however I disagree that the ONLY way in which Thrawn can be beaten is due to superior startegists and a better army. Granted, Thrawn's subordinates are incompetent and the Rebellion has some tricks up their sleeves and this contributes to his downfall, but the main reason why he loses in the show is because of the Force. He does NOT see the Purrgil or The Bendu intervening in the conflict because that's not how his mind works. He only accepts the rational and plausible outcomes, so when this occurs, he is caught off guard. While he doesn't lose on Atallon when the Rebels flee, his is definitely defeated by Ezra and the Purrgil. Bendu states "You cannot see. But I can. I see your defeat. Like many arms surrounding you in a cold embrace." Thrawn obviously can't physically see this, but mentally he cannot and will not. This quote presents a deeper meaning. Because of his reliance on his tactiaclity and practicality, he looses sight of his potential down fall. Again, he does not account for this as it is not even a possibility for him. That's what I really like about Rebels as whole. The Rebels are able to succeed due to their plans based faith and a trust in the force. Thrawn and the Empire do not see this, so that is a major driving force in their approaches to conflict. I'm not saying that the writers make him weaker, I'm just saying that with a character like Thrawn, they needed to be careful with how they wrote him to ensure an engaging and enthralling season, and I feel that they did exactly that. It all fits his character and his personality. I'm not criticizing Rebels at all, I'm actually really happy with the way in which they handleld him and how brilliant the writing is. I'm very happy with how Thrawn is represented in Rebels.
@@bradena3552 You are limited by your knowledge: Thrawn doesn't know or can experiment the Force personally. He does know something though: he's capable of deducting that Ezra gained access to his office using a mind trick, but that's a well known Force ability in general. Ezra's ability to empathize with almost every living being isn't something often seen among Force users.
Still Thrawn in Rebels is pragmatically ruthless, but generally stopped by his superiors:
A)In his attack in Atollon his idea is just crushing Phoenix squadron, period. He has to include in his tactics capturing the leaders alive so Tarkin can make an "example"(hints of public well announced executions) of them, which obviously complicates getting results. Otherwise he will just crush them using the fleet(full aerial attack), but since he needs to capture key targets alive he plots it in two phases: aerial attack to weaken them and then a ground assult to sweep and capture the leaders. This results in a longer overall assault giving Ezra enough time to gather allies and deliver a surprise strike that allows scape of Phoenix squadron.
Combine it with Konstantine stupidity of breaking formation, which creates a crack in the blockade that allows Ezra to leave to get reinforcements and you just get how Thrawn got screwed here.
Imagine yourself in his shoes here: he had everything tied up. Full scale aerial attack with a blockade and blows Phoenix squadron out of the Galaxy, it's done, rebelling against the Empire has a deadly price, message delivered. But he needs to please Tarkin to meet his flamboyant criteria and it all goes south when he only manages to hurt the Phoenix squadron, but leaders survive and scape along with several troops.
B)Lothal battle goes more or less the same. If it was only Thrawn he would just arrive and start wrecking havok the same way he did: put his destroyer over the Dome and start opening fire to the ground. He doesn't need Ezra to surrender at all: he can kill him too with all others. Thrawn arrived to Lothal 100% convinced that he was going to destroy everything around just to make an example because his TIE Defender project got thrashed by the Rebels: there wasn't anything of interest to him anymore in Lothal at that point, it was just to deliver the message than defying Thrawn doesn't play well when he's in a position of power.
It was Palpatine who specifically wanted Ezra, so basically we are here again. Thrawn's default strategy gets delayed by a superior because they demand something and because of that Sabine leads the Rebels on ground to get the shield up to stand bombarment for a time avoiding casualties and Mart calls the purgils to Lothal while Ezra stalls time by surrendering. Once the shields are up and the purgils there Ezra made his move and 'won', but his move was always going to be slower than Thrawn's, hence bound to failure unless he could stall time, which was what Palpatine need for him gave.
I sincerely believe that if all was up to Thrawn tactics they would all be dead, because he will just smash them the moment he could have them where he wanted. Instead Thrawn got to give a wide berth twice on his plots and that gave the Rebels chances to make their own plots and achieve some degree of success with way less resources.
PS: Ezra wasn't running on faith. He's shown meditating at some point, there's subtle hints that he knows what lies ahead and it's later reveled that he knew beforehand that he might need to sacrifice for the sake of the others. I generally take that he was peeking into the future all that time and making his own plots based on a number of potential futures he had foreseen.
@@deidian635 I understand your point, however I am not limited in my knowledge. You just restated my case and proved my point. You just said that you personally believe that if it was entirely up to Thrawn, then the Rebels would be destoryed. That's my entire argument. If Thrawn was in command without all of his subordinates and unexpected errors, he would have been able to crush the Rebels. As you mentioned, with the skirmish on Atollon, he needs to bring the Rebels alive to Tarkin and as you stated, this gives Ezra, the Mandalorians and the Rebels enough time to come to the rescue and escape. Because of these constraints, he can't just have his way with them. The same goes for Palpatine's request for Thrawn to bring Ezra before him, which enables Ezra to stall this allowing Sabine, Mart, and the others to carry out the plan. There are all of these obstacles and conditions that Thrawn needs to meet, so he can't just straight up obliterate them. That's why I find the writing so clever. It's a believable way for Thrawn to lose, yet still put up a fight with the Rebels. It's a sort of checks and balances system that the writers put in place to ensure an interesting arc that sees our heroes pushed to their limit yet enables them to come out on top. Dave Filoni says this: "We knew we needed to pace Thrawn out. As exciting as it was to bring him in, it also presented a lot of difficulties because I was determined not to have him losing on a weekly basis. That would just have been terrible, so we created scenarios where it was reasonable that he was involved, but it was not his fault if they lost."
And in regards to Ezra, he, to some extent needs his faith in the Force. He has a feeling on how everything is supposed to end, however he doesn't exactly know how to get there. As seen in Season 1, Ezra's future vision when rescuing Gall Trayvis doesn't go the way he enviosned it. It's not like he gets a clear picture and can just go off of that. He needs to place his trust in the will of the Force and his friends so his mission remains successful.
All in all, Thrawn is expertly written in this show. He still maintains his identity from the EU, however he is given a new story and a new purpose that really works. My entire point from the beginning was that I understand the difficult task that writer undertook in order to make Thrawn believable while allowing him to still be a threat. I don't know why you drew it out into this huge debate when you essentially restated my initial argument. The writers did a phenomenal job and that's my point at the end of the day. Clearly you misunderstood that.
@@bradena3552 My whole point is just for the usage of the word nerfed. I just wanted to highlight in the debate that Thrawn hasn't been portrayed in Rebels in a less dangerous way: he's incredibly dangerous, but his superiors in the Empire forced him to try to chew more and that lead to his failure when it wasn't neccesary so much to defeat the Rebels.
There's no faith with visions at least, basically because they don't tell you about your choices, they tell you about predictions of what's likely to happen. It would be too easy if the Force really told the force-sensitives what they are intended to do based on an external will. The Force is about precognition, telepathy and empathy in abilities that don't have 'direct effects' so summing it up you just have more information about things but you have to choose and plan without anything guiding you where to go.
For storywriting purposes though if a vision is seen then it has to happen later just because it creates tension which needs to be resolved in the story. So scenes portrayed in visions will happen, but in the vision some information will be missing that allows writers to "change" the vision. But these are technicallities of writing.
Just remember, to Thrawn he’s not a Villain, but a “hero” in his own right
He is, he's trying to save the Chiss Ascendency and other systems from the Grysk !
He's Zahn's pet villain-stu.
I loved thrawn in rebels because I knew very little of his character in eu. I basically started watching rebels not knowing anything about the main characters except for the characters you see in the movies and clone wars
I opted out of voting as I was unfamiliar with the character. Having since watched Rebels I was very impressed. Being someone who doesnt consume books, novels, etc I am intrigued at the idea that Thrawn is more of a threat....and a lil terrified.
Thrawn is the best imperial. I second the ST should have been an adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy or something like it that ends with Luke having a vision of a dangerous threat aka the Vong and this has been interpreted of Luke and from us as the audience as a test to see if they are ready to face whats coming. That could have led to a sequel TV series where these stories of the new Jedi order or Force user order that has reformed old teachings of the Jedi, and the new republic's structure is seen.
love Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy !!! I couldn't stop reading !!! Big fan of the OT.
I was introduced to thrawn by rebels(it was my intro to Star Wars as a whole) and at first I was really intrigued, then I started reading the new canon books and woooooowwwwww! He is definitely top three villain after vader and sidious
Rebels was my first experience with Thrawn and canon Thrawn is my all time favorite Star Wars character
So Thrawn wasn't a Rebels original character? Would kinda make sense considering Disney would never be able to create a villain this good.
Well I did say LOOSE adaption. I'm still holding out hope that a new Clone-Wars-like animated show will adapt the Thrawn Trilogy.
If you haven’t read the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn, you don’t know how awesome this character is. Rebels nerfed him a bit too much despite being a good villain
This video was made for me
For me Timothy Zahn's books are the mainline story of Episode VI aftermath. More than that, I "met" vice-admiral not only in the books but also I flew under Thrawn's command conducting his cunning plans to catch admital Zaarin in "TIE Fighter" space-simulation game... Oh, youth, it was 22 years ago! The books are thrilling and written crafly and carefully within laws of the canon. It felt as clear as day that the writer's sympathy was with the blue-skinned genius. The new young Republic and its leaders were so many steps behind him. And yet they managed to defeat him. I wish Disney could take Zahn's books for the sequel. How could things go so wrong both in our reality and in the galaxy far, far away..
Thrawn was great in his first appearances, but he wasn't always perfectly written. Sometimes Zahn went a but too far, giving Thrawn knowledge that he couldn't possibly have, which is a common fault when authors try to write geniuses.
This touches on something I loved about how he was portrayed in Rebels: normally, geniuses are really hard to write well, because it's nearly impossible to convincingly write someone who's supposed to be significantly smarter than the author themselves. Usually it's done badly, either by having the character make implausible leaps of logic or by simply dumbing down everyone around them (or both). But the thing about Rebels was that it was fundamentally a kid's show, and as such it was ALREADY a little dumbed down, just because of the nature of the format. Everyone had at least one finger on the idiot ball at all times. Watching as an adult, you just sort of had to get used to it and incorporate it into your willing suspension of disbelief.
Enter Thrawn. By simply NOT being dumbed down in the way that everyone else was, he was able to come across as dangerously intelligent, even if his tactics and insights weren't actually all that extraordinary if viewed from a step back. To me, it seemed like a brilliant way of leveraging what's normally an inherent limitation of the format to tell the type of story that can otherwise be incredibly hard to tell well. For that alone, my hat's off to the Rebels writers.
He was great in Star Wars: Rebels. Can We please see this guy in the near future in the Star Wars Universe -- both Live Action and Animated? Thor, how cool is it that the next animated Star Wars series from Disney + and Dave Filoni will be, STAR WARS: The Bad Batch?!
He trolled me.
You mean: "This is outrages! It's unfair!"
Thrawn in Canon is A-, he's a well done character, but seemingly Disney couldn't quite figure out how he worked, just how he managed to score so many victories against the Rebels, or how the Rebels were ever able to defeat him, and so opted for making everyone around him less intelligent and less competent than they'd been shown to be in earlier scenes. That said, I actually think Thrawn is one of the few things Disney has done (almost) as well as you could ever have expected from them, and I'll just remain glad that he's not hidden behind the pages of legend (get it? I'll see myself out).
I'd love to see more EU characters incorporated into canon, and if they're done hair as well as Thrawn was, it'll be worth it to see them on screen.
This said...
Legends Thrawn was just something else entirely. A master in all senses of the word at manipulation, prediction, tactics and warfare. That was always my favourite thing about him: his strength isn't brute force, or the Force, or anything else that Star Wars likes to draw on to show a character's power. His strength is and was his intelligence, doubly so in the Legends era. The fact that he managed to use the Force to his advantage on multiple occasions, a phenomenon about which he had no way of knowing much at all, as well as very nearly capturing each of the main cast multiple times, plus calling a (rather clever, I thought) ruse by Han and Leia simply based on timing and what little he'd been told, made him ten times more terrifying.
Anyway, that's just my two cents. I know this video's two years old, so it's not likely anyone will see this, but that's basically how I feel about the character.
Thank you Timothy Zahn
Thor, Next poll: Henry Cavill x Jon Hamm as live action Thrawn
Henry Cavill I think it's too big for him to portray Thrawn. The Thrawn we see in Legends is actually a bit more slender than Henry Cavill's body. I think someone like Tom Hiddleston would be better.
Lars Mikkelsen as Thawn in live action.
yes please
*Ralph Fiennes and Michael Fassbender have entered the chat*
Still can't figure out why there was some f scoring while he was diluted in rebels and i have not seen that show yet i can say from the general thoughts i have had expressed and seen online he was done well.
His 2 sources of lore eu and rebels therefore both are thought of to be very good quality would love to know why some considered him that low.
7:00 that’s the point right there.
Thrawn was the best SW villain. Fight me. That being said I still believe the Sequel trilogy should have been the NJO arc with the Vong. The theme for SW is dark over light, light over dark, and the force over all... As an EU delver that made the most sense. Anakin allowed his light to be corrupted but then Luke showed him the selflessness of the light again and via Anakin's redemption Luke raises a much more understanding and specifically "the living force" centered Jedi order. In turn, when an alien race invades it takes the NJO, the Imperial Remnants, and the New Republic all working collectively to defeat them. It truly conveys the concept, that with Luke at the helm, the Sith won't arise ever again and that by combining the ideals of the Republic, with the structure of the Imperials and the understanding of the Jedi that peace will be everlasting... I have spoken.
Even if many believe the canon version is inferior, the way they characterized him with his soft-spoken voice actor, intelligence, and organ theme music still made him a villain that would scare the hell out of me if he were real.
I mean heck, I only knew him from Rebels. And I still voted him an A rank.... If even a watered-down version of the character resonated with me that much. That shows how good of a character he truly is. (And honestly, I really want to read the original Thrawn trilogy. Disney's canon has just simply left a sour taste in my mouth after TLJ....)
All credits go to the book, voice actor and execution of his role in the story.
I totally agree with the title
I think part of the problem at this point with rating characters is that the RUclips polling system just isn't granular enough. If they had a 10 point scale instead of 5, it would be easier to come up with a vote. But as it is, there are characters I like, and who maybe deserve an "A", but not an "A+". I don't think they are on par with Vader, but my only choice is "same grade as Vader" or "lower than is really deserved". The same thing is already true in the ratings for arcs from "The Clone Wars'.
I saw him in Rebels first which is why I like him better there and I think the only reason people like him better in the original books is because they saw him first
Thrawn‘s my most favorite villain ever!
1:23 In this video exposé...
The only thing that stopped thrawn in lrgends were the invariables of like the smugglers or was it mercenaries in legends i don't remember, and in this canon it was plot armor that stopped him, but man he was a villain that surpasses sidious who uses manipulation and vader using the force, thrawn is like the 3rd variable that uses intellect which makes him terrifying as you may not know ehat he already knows
Can’t wait for more
Btw it’s been confirmed that the Bad Batch from the clone wars are getting their own show. www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-bad-batch-series-announce What do you guys think of that?
If kennedy has a lot to do with it then not verry optimistic
Late to the game again!! Lol.
There's something about the Zahn trilogy that stands out to me versus the sequel trilogy, it's a very big difference.
The sequels as we all know now were made Without a plan and what they did come up with didnt FEEL RIGHT. YET THE Zahn trilogy DID Feel RIGHT.
The Mandalorian comes from the same cut of cloth as the Zahn books.
What they have in common is what I call Logical Character and Universal Story Progression.
The Zahn books continued the Skywalker Saga while also introducing a wide variety of New Characters like Thrawn, Mara Jade who would go from the Emperors favorite assassin to Luke's Wife.
Leia's best friend, confidante, advisor and caretaker of her children Winter. We saw a Version of Winter in the Last Jedi in Admiral Holdo.
The Zahn books and characters offered and added to our beloved universe in a way that was New but Also Felt Right for the setting.
Even the Dark Horse Comics Ttempt at a Direct Sequel story that comes a few years after the end of Return of the Jedi in Dark Empire, that was Totally STAR Wars as well and it provided a new story to fill the gap until the Prequels came out.
Each OG character from Luke to Lando all not only Acted as we all would imagine them to but Expanded and broadened upon everything.
Yet with the sequels...we saw None of Any of that.
VISUALLY its ALL there. But its SPFX Dressing making up for a lack of story.
We saw our Beloved OG crew basically Dismissed and not even remotely living up to their potential development and overall success to add and Enhance the adventure.
Not even story telling Basics were adhered to here.
All three films were based upon an ASSUMPTION that fans would buy it regardless Because it Called Star Wars and Looks Like Star Wars so it in Theory should Sell like Star Wars has in the past.
Disney and Kennedy treated it like a Turn Key franchise purchase.
You Buy into it and a crew comes in to set up your restaurant like Subway, Starbucks, McDonald's etc. And it just makes money from the Formula and Production.
They tweaked visuals to be new enough to Avoid paying Lucas Royalties and stayed as far away from OG material as possible ...to Avoid Paying Royalties. They made Surrogate character's like the admittedly likeable BB-8 to stand in for R2-D2 because less seen meant More Momey for them as BB-8 becomes the new character instead for fans to buy merch for where No Money gets paid to Lucas in Royalties.
Every decision made was based on Maximizing Profits after spending 4Billion bucks buying it that Story...and the New Management absolutely NEEDING to EARN the Loyalty of the fans being completely taken for Granted...story became an After thought. One that would by the end of TLJ shown Disney just how Much they had taken for granted.
Story is EVERYTHING. The Visuals are only A PART of that equation.
If the characters and their challenges arent Compelling, if theres no Growyh, no world life experience observations then...its a macguffin hunt through a Sci Fi setting that doesnt Mean anything.
Both Disney and EA Games have done their best to take complete Predatory Advantage of the IP to the point where story....means next to nothing.
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Red Five standing by!
Blue leader, standing by.
Blue 420, standing by
My Lord, we have detected troll squadron incoming. Should we launch fighters?
You should start putting pictures of the characters in the ranking to make it look prettier
Thrawn was better in old EU but in cannon he is done great considering it was a kids show. But after the new trilogy with him it makes me think that Ezra actually saved him from the repercussions of his failure to rid Lothal of the rebels. Can't wait for the next books about him coming not soon enough.
Undoubtedly a great character, my biggest problem with at point is the fact that his character is widely different depicted in the source material. The legends Thrawn I would rate a B maybe a B+, my reasoning being the fact that we only see the character through the eyes of those around him, primarily captain Gilad Pellaeon who I always saw as the true star of that trilogy. Because of this structure all the reasoning behind his plans and strategy become speculations and many most of the time that Thrawn actually provides explanation it feels at bit lackluster, at least from my point of view.
This guy really should have been the sequel villain. A not-force-user overall bad guy. But that would have required good writing.
I'm currently reading timothy Zahns original novels after I binge read his new trilogy. Thrawn's story is amazing
I am curious his look with TCW style. I hope someday we can see it.