Just a quick ride of the CF Moto MT800 Touring, that comes in at £9199 and offers a lot of kit for the money. Useful to ride it back to back with the Vstrom 800 DE.
This. I got a decent deal on a 2010 dl650 “white rhino”. I don’t ride 2up so I never find it lacking, just does wot it says in the tin and keeps on trucking. Goes where you point it, be it chuggin off road or round big booming corners. Best bike ever IMO.
I love that 11 minutes in you give your conclusion. Most RUclipsrs make you wait. Yet, the rest was well worth waiting for. I took the Suzuki for test ride. Agree completely with your assessment. Even if it only had tubeless I would buy it and retrofit heated grips and a proper screen. I have been at the side of the road too many times trying to replace a tube of a 200kg+ bike (T7) not to realise the value of tubeless. Currently on a Norden Expedition. Amazing machine. But nearly £4k more than a Suzuki.
Thanks for giving us reviews that are worth listening to where most of the others pretty much just reel off the specs and say the bike they're reviewing is great...
Your discussion videos are by far the best on YT. Your ability to critique, present and generate discussion is certainly worth the time invested by followers. I am long in years but new to bikes and value what you provide.
I've just come back testing the CFMoto 800T and was quite impressed, the perfect bike for long distance commuting / road touring. It's very well speced and a comfortable place to be to cover miles with the screen, heated grips / seat / cruise control etc.). Once I got to some twisty roads I found the power adequate, handling good, and the quick shifter allowing the bike to keep momentum. The standing position was actually very comformable and I think it could do alright on some easy gravel track but the weight was quite high and slow speed handling felt a bit awkward. The guy at Fowlers thinks there is a new version coming with lower tanks /weight which would be a massive improvement.
Great video. I rode the DE. Considered RE. Brought 800 Mt. No regrets. Your last comment on the cockpit for touring is spot on. The Suzuki just does not have it, but great engine. I love the comments on Suzuki product planning. It's almost as if they forgot about the Cf moto completely because it was 11k at the time. The 2024 KTM 790 is 100 percent made by Cf moto now.
Thank you for this. I bought a Husqy Norden 901 Expedition last year. I was seriously considering the CFMoto 800 Ibex T mainly because of the price. The research told me the riding experience would not be refined, but I was having trouble finding a voice I trusted. Now hearing your opinion, I feel validated having spent a significant amount more. Bless you sir!
It's about time someone made a comment about headlights. I need a good headlight as I ride all year round with 4am starts. On my MT07 I have had to fit a led bulb and mine has a proper headlight, not these silly things that are no bigger than a torch.
Great review...yip...couldn't justify the lack of features on the vstrom and despite owning the 650 & 1000 models in the past ended up with the cfmoto explore option. The features on this bike blow the vstrom completely out of the water. There is NOTHING I lack on the cfmoto explore and the radar system is awesome. For my needs it's the perfect bike 😊.
Thumbs up and subscribe. Owner reviews are the best. The professional reviewers that were wined & dined at the product launches gushed all over the 800DE. Now we have a real review.
Brilliant review.... of both bikes. I got very excited by the CF Moto MT800 a number of years ago when it was already in Australia and NZ and was about to launch in the UK... and then, typically of just about every Chinese brand... there was a small wet fart and ..... nothing. No dealers, no bikes... nothing. Here we are a few years later and the bikes are beginning to appear but are all show and no go.. or maybe they are the perfect urban ADV bike for those of us who can't afford a GS1300. VStrom 800, MT800, TRK700; all of them are going to be outstanding bargains ex demo / low mileage s/h in the very near future. If I was looking to replace my VStrom 650, I'd be stalking the dealers show rooms starting in November.
Your certainly my favourite journalist, you just talk sense rather than what some manufacturers would want you to say. It's a shame you cannot get a cf moto 800 and a beneli 702 on long term loan.. The 702 is certainly bang for buck ..
Always interesting to hear you work through your thoughts on these bikes rather than over scripting the content, much better imho. I think perhaps what we're seeing here is what i think of as the Kia / Hyundai model. They started off with just dirt cheap copies of existing cars or rehashed earlier gen competitor cars until they realised that there's a big market for cars with impressive lists of kit at lower than usual prices. I think you hit the nail on the head that while the kit list is extensive, it's simply not a polished as the Suzuki but the key is that if ridden in isolation it'll feel *good enough* for most people many of who probably won't have tried the Suzuki and won't realise what they're missing. For them that spec list and the lower than expected price will seal the deal. Looking again at the car world it's interesting to see how brands can make lower and higher quality / spec sub brands to attract different types of buyers. Renault use Dacia to protect the Renault brand from being devalued, equally Toyota created Lexus for those who'd baulk at huge prices 'just for a Toyota. I can't help but wonder if in years to come the big players with start to combine and perhaps a huge Chinese brand will buy Suzuki and still produce top quality bikes but also produce cheaper bikes under 'cheaper' sub brands. Interesting times.
Thanks for your thoughts Nathan, good one. Couple of comments. In Australia, a common criticism since the beginnings of the VStroms (at least from the motorcycle press if not buyers!) was a relative lack of off-road ability. I wonder if this might have contributed to Suzuki releasing the more off-road version first? A more road focused version has just been released here (after the DE), which as noted elsewhere in the comments, has a bigger screen, smaller (19") front wheel and tubeless tires - but the same engine! CFMoto is a growing brand in Australia, with the 800MTs particularly well received. They are about $1500 - $3500 AUD less than the Suzukis, depending upon spec (we have 4 800MT versions, sport, 2 * touring and top of the range explore). I personally have an older 650MT, based on the old Kawasaki parallel twin (but depowered for learners, bit like your A2 bikes). I'm not a paricularly hard or fast rider but I really like the bike - comfortable enough, enough power, good handling, suspension and brakes (although limited a little by the 17" front wheel). While on its own the quality of manufacture and fittings is fine, side by side with a mate's 650 VSTrom the latter looked the higher quality machine. That said, if I dropped a VSTrom in a muddy hole I wouldn't be happy, whereas dropping my (much cheaper) CFMoto, I just pick it up, appreciate the new patina and carry on! Cheers.
Really interesting video. I am vstrom man and considering changeing my 650. The vstrom 800 is high on my list, surprisingly your vids have made me lean even more towards it, I reckon with a few extras the RE will be perfect for touring, I'm happy enough with the performance of the 650 but a bit more Pep is attractive. Just needs a centrestand, heated grips and maybe a bigger screen. That Benelli is really tempting though. Must get some test rides.
In the same boat here, my v-strom 650 has been extremely competent and reliable but lacks the grin factor. Was considering a 1050xt but wondering if the 800re would be a better choice, or as you say, the Benelli and save some cash
Hi Nathan, I totally agree with you, I've got a KTM 790 adventure and absolutely love it, it's my first adventure bike and it's brilliant I've had a CBR 650r before my KTM and didn't enjoy it. Also had a frantic caballero 500 rally which wasn't very good off road ( green lanes ), I'm definitely going to take my bike on tours this year 👍👍
Great video and all good points.I think Suzuki have pretty much admitted they have over priced the DE. I managed to get a new DE for £9500 including Heated Grips, Touring Screen and Centre Stand. Which I think makes it a great deal. On the motorway with the touring screen it was much better. I think this bike will build in reputation rather than a spec-sheet selling points will sell the bike. The suspension and engine are excellent. As no two riders want exactly the same thing... as you say... ride them first. I also agree with the Chinese listening to what the riders want..Indians too. I think we may see a shift in the next 10 years unless the established brands wake up.
Definitely a very interesting perspective but it all comes back to what floats your boat. I don't think Ktm are renowned for reliability so I can't see what that will do for CF Moto. Heated grips and cruise control and free luggage aren't much good if your bike is back at the dealer. Suzuki reliability is guaranteed. I think the V Strom can be a great bike with a few upgrades, i don't think that about the CF Moto.
I agree completely with your conclusion @nathanthepostman - if only ther likes of Suzuki , triumph would add things like cruise control , centre stands and bigger screens to these size of bikes - the offering from CF-moto here is amazing...
Brands ...prices ...specs ..accessories.... aside ....it boggles my mind at the choice we have in bikes these days surely a bike for every taste....I'm boring I've gone back to a 411 himalayan cheap as chips and suits me to sit next to my 650vstrom...atb..
A great ( as usual) mini review that approaches the bikes with a real world riders/buyers view. The specification of the CF moto is a draw, not much to farkle on the bike at all, buy ride enjoy sell ....I still think the VStrom is lacking in on essential specification tubes no centre stand no cruise control poor screen that before luggage ... might have a peachy engine but it needs more to compete imho. All basically what I heard you say ... right off to ride my Himalayan in the Staffordshire Peak District in the wind and rain ! Keep them coming
I took a CF Moto 800 tour out on a test ride yesterday and your review is spot on, I found myself feeling a little disappointed. Plenty of grunt but very lumpy low down the rev range and that windscreen surely came out of a serial packet, in fact I thought the whole dash area looked very plasticky; dare I say it; it looked very Chinesey. No good coming with a bunch of fancy extras at a cheap price if the basic product isn't up to the mark. I'm looking for something lighter than my 1200 GS which is getting heavier as the years go by but this bike isn't going to be it.
The 450MT is so much anticipated. Weight looks a disappointment but watching promo videos testers seem to man handle it in an easy way that belies the weight. Cant wait for Nathan's comments on it. He allways gives such a down to earth knowledgeable honest appraisal from a real owners point of view. On the Suzuki I think its a great bike to hoon around on and with decent screen good for some touring. Its no doubt the Chinese bikes are coming in a big way with affordable prices, they need to prove reliability long term with reliable back up from quality dealerships.
You should also check QJ Motor SRT700x….a better deal and bike than the CF Moto. At least in Germany. Just saw you recommended Benelli TRK702. Same bike. But the package on the SRT700 is much better here in Germany. Cheers from Berlin! Rainer
That was a fantastic video, i test rode a cfmoto 800 mt today (24/5/24) and i loved it although i did find the throttle sensitive but not snatchy , its seriously good value,, im trading in a 4 yr old v strom 650xt , i have considered the new "v" strom 800 RE but the lack of equipment on it is ridiculous, i dont need a heated seat or cruise control for that matter but a centre stand is an absolute must on any chain driven bike , so if cfmoto are giving me more than i need for a price i want to spend then thats fine with me 😂😂, i might never use these extras/luxuries but i got them for free compared to the Japanese and bmw's cost for these luxuries. The public need an upstart like cfmoto to drag these other manufacturers in to line. Rant over😂
Great insight and always enjoy the 'left field' discussions. Much sense spoken. Is the Reiju Adventura 500 also going to be in the mix I wonder? Any chance you're getting a ride on one of them Nathan?
@@nathanthepostman...and not light with 40kg of fuel on board, but looks interesting. No doubt it'll get heavily discounted after a year of not selling well...!
Cf moto owns KTM in as much as it owns the majority of the company. That said the Voge DSX 900 i own in spain is a beast and a crazy price here €8888 its a. Beast on and off road. It will be interesting how its recieved in the UK. Ps i also own an older bullet proof VStrom 650XT
For me a big selling point for a v-strom has always been a reputation for excellent reliability. I can't think what it might take to motivate me to buy a Chinese bike, KTM or CF Moto.
The ‘Strom isn’t quite an off roader, isn’t quite a tourer. The biggest missing thing for me is cruise control & heated grips… I wouldn’t mind the CF Moto to be honest & I would also look at the Benelli 702X too!
Its an interesting one mate dad an I are gonna be buying this class of bikes. Im a confirmed Suzuki fan had 7 of them this time round the 800de has left me cold its a shame they didnt use the dr big name as you say then just update an keep the vtwin 650xt. It almost makes me think Suzuki were chasing the T7 but missed the mark. (Ive not ridden the 800 though) Ive had 7 Yamahas an 7 Suzukis Yamaha x7 Rd250lc x2, Rd350lc x2, Rzv500r x1, Rd250c x1, Harris tz350g Suzuki x7 Rmz250, vstrom 650xt, vstrom 1000xt, gsxr600k9, gsxr750k9, gsxr750l1, 1982 gsx750et. Its interesting that ive always leant towards the Suzukis for the modern stuff (the gsx750et was truly an epic touring 80s muscle bike i loved it an my now friend Steve who bought it from me has been all over europe on it the alps track days etc) This time round we've actually been leaning towards the Yamaha T7 205kg wet with Japanese reliability an a cable throttle. So same weight as the 411 an we are gonna approach the routes we do with easy in mind as dads just had a bit of bad news medical wise an is having a biopsy on his prostate next week so all fingers crossed on that. The other day we got to see the new lowered explore edition T7 made it super managable for dad even though its only a drop to 860mm an im gonna repeat a similar seat drop on a used one for him an a full height one for me, fits like a glove. The downside on the t7 is the tubed Wheels a few ways round that though n same for the fuel range. The reliability aspect is really winning out initially we thought 890/901 Norden but the common immobiliser fault needing trailering to a dealer an the widespread cam issues put us off in the end its a shame as those low fuel pods are so clever. When i did my why vstrom video on the 650xt i owned an loved i mentioned missing cruise for the long motorway routes but that fly by wire would be a trade off it feels like they half did it on the 800de that maybe generation 2 will be better but how long will that take and how will the market have moved on. Its like some of the Japanese brands are repeating the mistakes of the British bike industry. I cant imagine them just watching the loss of market share though wonder what they have under wraps. I really agree though with living with a bike for a while a good week to a month gives a much better picture after buying one i think an then as you say residuals come into it.
@@nathanthepostman yep thats the trade off for sure, sorta refreshing it being simple though alot to be said for that:) we have actually been looking at the Lowering kit Yam did for the standard height T7, 38mm drop. Part links part seat, from what the dealer said that explore was done on internals felt a different bike even at 860mm clever what they've done. Shame they didn't put tubeless on the explore that was a real miss I thought. One thing that's all over the map is the insurance max no claims, full licence 15 years ish good area (unemployed with the move) with a stealth tracker Quotes 800de an t7 £800 quid transalp £1400 ouch! Using one of the main insurance companies the transalp was 100 quid more for dad as well.
@@marksimpson5218 so does my 1927 Norton 16h Mark along with my 60s stuff it's a pain them not coming with them standard now when even back at the dawn of motorcycling they did. Front and rear stands built in on the 1927
Suzuki sell a lot because of low finance. 2.9% being typical. Less than you can borrow elsewhere. When the rates come down from 9.9% things might change. Money talks. Spot on re the 450MT. Watching that very closely. Currently on a spoked tubeless 650 strom which is everything you say. Rode the 800 and outside of the engine saw nothing to make me want to change. Will Suzuki make a new DR400? They should. Ride safe 👍
It might be made in the same factory and have the same engine as a KTM but I bet the firmware on the ECU isn’t the same. Hard to argue with the value for money though.
The CFMoto is coming in at a price some manufacturers offer their packages. For me, the right “adventure bike” is one I can drop without requiring therapy . . .
The conditions were horrible, but I felt Chris was being a little diplomatic on that bikes offroad capability. Compared to how comfortable he seemed on the new Himalayan, its obvious that the weight is a big factor.
Yes I thought the same and it actually looked quite hard work even in his hands so I'm happy to stick on tarmac with this mid weight class
4 месяца назад
@@nathanthepostman one thing I really do like about the bigger bikes offroad though is being able to leave it in second and they'll just power up anything you point it at. Probably down to my experience at the time, but I had a spell of 150cc - 390cc type bikes, and I always found myself in the wrong gear at the wrong moment! Separate note, I did find it mildly amusing that for all the improvements you'd make to this bike...you were basically describing on paper a V-Strom pre this model!
No sure about the 800. I know there's the 900 coming which has the BMW 900 XR engine in it. That'll be here in a couple of months I believe. It looks a lot of bike for the money and will probably be very competitively priced. I'd expect it to be around the price of this CF moto
Yeah i think it could be. I've got the 525 DSX on loan soon and apparently that's been selling very well in Europe so it looks like Voge are on a bit of a roll at the minute@@droflivelife
You can watch all the reviews and read all the marketing info till the cows come home. The only thing that matters is when your arse is on the seat and you go down the road.
Clear that the path for KTM is to move almost all production over to China/CF moto and maybe just assemble special editions in Austria. Triumph have done the same with offshoring production to Thailand and it doesn’t appear that quality has declined. If they can assemble a KTM in Austria they can do it cheaper with quality control in China. European assembled bikes are getting so expensive it seems the only way to remain competitive. As usual, Japanese bikes are beautifully made but just not that well thought out. They’ll always have a market for those who prize build and reliability over anything else - but by then their bikes will be made offshore too in all likelihood 😂
Too heavy, tall and under equipped for me. I suppose it’s that one bike for everything concept with Japanese levels of reliability. I looked at the road based version, then the sportier versions as I needed a road bike to replace a Vitpilen 701-that I’m sadly not gelling with at all. In the end it came down to either a tiger sport 660 or, an Aprilia Tuono 660 and the Tuono pipped the Triumph on trade in offer, equipment, weight and aesthetics. I ended up getting the factory version. I’d considered the Tuareg but there’s no way I’m doing green lanes on that as it’s too tall, too heavy and too expensive to suffer drops when I have a Yamaha Serrow and a Fantic 500 scrambler.
If the Chinese keep to moderate pricing, they will do for "modern" machines, what Royal Enfield have done for retros. If they, or their importers get greedy and try to edge nearer to the established brands, they will simply get a (small?) share of that market. Stay moderate and they will become that market.
That MT450 will havet o be good, there are many Honda 500X on the market, with known reliability second hand. That MT800 looks mega top heavy, even if its mostly plastic. Fugly.
I personally think the 450 will be very good. Plus have a lot more versatility than the 500X to boot, especially for trails. Shame Honda didn't do more with the NX500
@@nathanthepostman Honda, like the other manufacturers, try to appeal to the masses, rather than the niche. Just more money in it. Easier for them to convince the buying public "this is the bike you need" , rather than this is the bike you want and asked for. The NX dont look to bad, but just another Big H marketing ploy, unfortunately.
@@nathanthepostman stand in anybodies front room, point a finger and turn 360 degrees. I think many people would be amazed at just how much of what was pointed at has been made in China.... and not just the electronics, that includes the furniture, light switches, electrical wiring. etc, etc.
If the Chinese brands are stepping up on quality at good prices, then maybe the major brands will need to offer more competitive prices. I’ve looked at new bikes but decided to keep my Tiger 800 and invest a little money to make it suit my needs. But never say never. Good review Nath.
The once great Suzuki has been out of touch with their market for 20 years offering obsolete outdated designs. China appears to be listening to what the customers want.
I have learned over the years not to stick it to myself and downgrade over a few bucks. I'd rather own something of quality I'll be happy with and the Suzuki will hold its value better. I'm willing to bet more $ would be lost on the CFMOTO as an investment than the price difference between the bikes when it's time to sell. I did buy the 800DE and I have no buyer's remorse. Fun and comfortable bike! Good in the dirt too! Ibex, no thanks. I can't stand clanky engines and Amazon accessories. I too believe the 84 hp number is low for the 800DE. Behaves more like a 100 hp bike. The DE seems more lively than my Africa Twin yet I really like the AT because of the quality. Good video!
your right it isn't a KTM, the CFmoto is more reliable lol 😂no melted cams, no electrical gremlins, no bad manufacturer warranty, lets be honest KTM have an appalling record for producing decent dependable adventure bikes, why do you think KTM never allowed Charlie and Ewan take their bikes around the world, they haven't changed since, still producing crap that breaks
CF MOTO 800 Touring here owner, really great bike best value for money. Over 2200 miles of smiles. So comfortable.
My top tip after 44 years of riding. Buy a V-Strom 650 or something like that for half the money and spend the rest on fuel having actual adventures 👍
I can buy the 800 T for less than a V strom 650 XT. Texas
even better tip : if you struggling that much with your budget, don't buy a bike. Save that money to have a more comfortable day to day life.
@@thierryfaquet7405 Hahahaha. That's a great point.
This. I got a decent deal on a 2010 dl650 “white rhino”. I don’t ride 2up so I never find it lacking, just does wot it says in the tin and keeps on trucking. Goes where you point it, be it chuggin off road or round big booming corners. Best bike ever IMO.
Very good insight, and analysis, as always. Yes, the cfmoto 450MT could be the wild card, we were waiting for.
I love that 11 minutes in you give your conclusion. Most RUclipsrs make you wait. Yet, the rest was well worth waiting for. I took the Suzuki for test ride. Agree completely with your assessment. Even if it only had tubeless I would buy it and retrofit heated grips and a proper screen. I have been at the side of the road too many times trying to replace a tube of a 200kg+ bike (T7) not to realise the value of tubeless. Currently on a Norden Expedition. Amazing machine. But nearly £4k more than a Suzuki.
Thanks for giving us reviews that are worth listening to where most of the others pretty much just reel off the specs and say the bike they're reviewing is great...
Thanks breezy. Appreciated
Cracking insight and opinion on the V-Strom,CF Moto and Benelli,glad you give it to us straight , no hype,no bullshit.
Your discussion videos are by far the best on YT. Your ability to critique, present and generate discussion is certainly worth the time invested by followers. I am long in years but new to bikes and value what you provide.
One of the best comparative assessment of the CFMOTO 800MT, impartial and argumentative. Good job!
I've just come back testing the CFMoto 800T and was quite impressed, the perfect bike for long distance commuting / road touring. It's very well speced and a comfortable place to be to cover miles with the screen, heated grips / seat / cruise control etc.). Once I got to some twisty roads I found the power adequate, handling good, and the quick shifter allowing the bike to keep momentum. The standing position was actually very comformable and I think it could do alright on some easy gravel track but the weight was quite high and slow speed handling felt a bit awkward. The guy at Fowlers thinks there is a new version coming with lower tanks /weight which would be a massive improvement.
The Vstrom 800 RE has a 19" front, tubeless wheels and a bigger screen. Cheaper too than the 800 DE too.
Looking forward to trying the 800re, wouldn't touch this Chinese stuff.
I love my Africa Twin but the 2024 with the 19” front is ridiculously overpriced; the RE is the model I’d consider.
More off road, DE. More on road - RE. Anyone should buy on the usage, not the price.
Brilliant and honest review
Great video. I rode the DE. Considered RE. Brought 800 Mt. No regrets. Your last comment on the cockpit for touring is spot on. The Suzuki just does not have it, but great engine. I love the comments on Suzuki product planning. It's almost as if they forgot about the Cf moto completely because it was 11k at the time. The 2024 KTM 790 is 100 percent made by Cf moto now.
Thank you for this. I bought a Husqy Norden 901 Expedition last year. I was seriously considering the CFMoto 800 Ibex T mainly because of the price. The research told me the riding experience would not be refined, but I was having trouble finding a voice I trusted. Now hearing your opinion, I feel validated having spent a significant amount more. Bless you sir!
It's about time someone made a comment about headlights. I need a good headlight as I ride all year round with 4am starts. On my MT07 I have had to fit a led bulb and mine has a proper headlight, not these silly things that are no bigger than a torch.
The direct back to back comparison with the 790 speaks volumes. That was the greatest insight for me.
Great review...yip...couldn't justify the lack of features on the vstrom and despite owning the 650 & 1000 models in the past ended up with the cfmoto explore option. The features on this bike blow the vstrom completely out of the water. There is NOTHING I lack on the cfmoto explore and the radar system is awesome. For my needs it's the perfect bike 😊.
I`m really close to buy exactly the same one, the explore , still hoping to ride a VOGE DS900X before make final decision .
Thumbs up and subscribe. Owner reviews are the best. The professional reviewers that were wined & dined at the product launches gushed all over the 800DE. Now we have a real review.
Intelligent, insightful and real world. Can’t wait to hear what you think about the new Himalayan 450 after riding one.
Thanks Bruce. Keen to try the new Himalayan as soon as I can.
Great honest review
Brilliant review.... of both bikes. I got very excited by the CF Moto MT800 a number of years ago when it was already in Australia and NZ and was about to launch in the UK... and then, typically of just about every Chinese brand... there was a small wet fart and ..... nothing. No dealers, no bikes... nothing. Here we are a few years later and the bikes are beginning to appear but are all show and no go.. or maybe they are the perfect urban ADV bike for those of us who can't afford a GS1300. VStrom 800, MT800, TRK700; all of them are going to be outstanding bargains ex demo / low mileage s/h in the very near future. If I was looking to replace my VStrom 650, I'd be stalking the dealers show rooms starting in November.
Your certainly my favourite journalist, you just talk sense rather than what some manufacturers would want you to say. It's a shame you cannot get a cf moto 800 and a beneli 702 on long term loan.. The 702 is certainly bang for buck ..
Always interesting to hear you work through your thoughts on these bikes rather than over scripting the content, much better imho. I think perhaps what we're seeing here is what i think of as the Kia / Hyundai model. They started off with just dirt cheap copies of existing cars or rehashed earlier gen competitor cars until they realised that there's a big market for cars with impressive lists of kit at lower than usual prices. I think you hit the nail on the head that while the kit list is extensive, it's simply not a polished as the Suzuki but the key is that if ridden in isolation it'll feel *good enough* for most people many of who probably won't have tried the Suzuki and won't realise what they're missing. For them that spec list and the lower than expected price will seal the deal.
Looking again at the car world it's interesting to see how brands can make lower and higher quality / spec sub brands to attract different types of buyers. Renault use Dacia to protect the Renault brand from being devalued, equally Toyota created Lexus for those who'd baulk at huge prices 'just for a Toyota. I can't help but wonder if in years to come the big players with start to combine and perhaps a huge Chinese brand will buy Suzuki and still produce top quality bikes but also produce cheaper bikes under 'cheaper' sub brands. Interesting times.
I bought Cfmoto rode it 550km on cruise control loved it nothing wrong with it amazing
Thanks for your thoughts Nathan, good one. Couple of comments. In Australia, a common criticism since the beginnings of the VStroms (at least from the motorcycle press if not buyers!) was a relative lack of off-road ability. I wonder if this might have contributed to Suzuki releasing the more off-road version first? A more road focused version has just been released here (after the DE), which as noted elsewhere in the comments, has a bigger screen, smaller (19") front wheel and tubeless tires - but the same engine! CFMoto is a growing brand in Australia, with the 800MTs particularly well received. They are about $1500 - $3500 AUD less than the Suzukis, depending upon spec (we have 4 800MT versions, sport, 2 * touring and top of the range explore). I personally have an older 650MT, based on the old Kawasaki parallel twin (but depowered for learners, bit like your A2 bikes). I'm not a paricularly hard or fast rider but I really like the bike - comfortable enough, enough power, good handling, suspension and brakes (although limited a little by the 17" front wheel). While on its own the quality of manufacture and fittings is fine, side by side with a mate's 650 VSTrom the latter looked the higher quality machine. That said, if I dropped a VSTrom in a muddy hole I wouldn't be happy, whereas dropping my (much cheaper) CFMoto, I just pick it up, appreciate the new patina and carry on! Cheers.
Really interesting video. I am vstrom man and considering changeing my 650. The vstrom 800 is high on my list, surprisingly your vids have made me lean even more towards it, I reckon with a few extras the RE will be perfect for touring, I'm happy enough with the performance of the 650 but a bit more Pep is attractive.
Just needs a centrestand, heated grips and maybe a bigger screen.
That Benelli is really tempting though. Must get some test rides.
In the same boat here, my v-strom 650 has been extremely competent and reliable but lacks the grin factor. Was considering a 1050xt but wondering if the 800re would be a better choice, or as you say, the Benelli and save some cash
Hi Nathan, I totally agree with you, I've got a KTM 790 adventure and absolutely love it, it's my first adventure bike and it's brilliant I've had a CBR 650r before my KTM and didn't enjoy it. Also had a frantic caballero 500 rally which wasn't very good off road ( green lanes ), I'm definitely going to take my bike on tours this year 👍👍
Great video and all good points.I think Suzuki have pretty much admitted they have over priced the DE. I managed to get a new DE for £9500 including Heated Grips, Touring Screen and Centre Stand. Which I think makes it a great deal. On the motorway with the touring screen it was much better. I think this bike will build in reputation rather than a spec-sheet selling points will sell the bike. The suspension and engine are excellent. As no two riders want exactly the same thing... as you say... ride them first. I also agree with the Chinese listening to what the riders want..Indians too. I think we may see a shift in the next 10 years unless the established brands wake up.
Definitely a very interesting perspective but it all comes back to what floats your boat. I don't think Ktm are renowned for reliability so I can't see what that will do for CF Moto. Heated grips and cruise control and free luggage aren't much good if your bike is back at the dealer. Suzuki reliability is guaranteed. I think the V Strom can be a great bike with a few upgrades, i don't think that about the CF Moto.
I agree completely with your conclusion @nathanthepostman - if only ther likes of Suzuki , triumph would add things like cruise control , centre stands and bigger screens to these size of bikes - the offering from CF-moto here is amazing...
Brands ...prices ...specs ..accessories.... aside ....it boggles my mind at the choice we have in bikes these days surely a bike for every taste....I'm boring I've gone back to a 411 himalayan cheap as chips and suits me to sit next to my 650vstrom...atb..
Honda 300 rally , Kawasaki 650 Versys …because they are reliable and fun .
A great ( as usual) mini review that approaches the bikes with a real world riders/buyers view. The specification of the CF moto is a draw, not much to farkle on the bike at all, buy ride enjoy sell ....I still think the VStrom is lacking in on essential specification tubes no centre stand no cruise control poor screen that before luggage ... might have a peachy engine but it needs more to compete imho. All basically what I heard you say ... right off to ride my Himalayan in the Staffordshire Peak District in the wind and rain ! Keep them coming
Cheers yellow. Stay dry out there!
good chat Nathan.
I took a CF Moto 800 tour out on a test ride yesterday and your review is spot on, I found myself feeling a little disappointed. Plenty of grunt but very lumpy low down the rev range and that windscreen surely came out of a serial packet, in fact I thought the whole dash area looked very plasticky; dare I say it; it looked very Chinesey. No good coming with a bunch of fancy extras at a cheap price if the basic product isn't up to the mark. I'm looking for something lighter than my 1200 GS which is getting heavier as the years go by but this bike isn't going to be it.
The 450MT is so much anticipated. Weight looks a disappointment but watching promo videos testers seem to man handle it in an easy way that belies the weight. Cant wait for Nathan's comments on it. He allways gives such a down to earth knowledgeable honest appraisal from a real owners point of view.
On the Suzuki I think its a great bike to hoon around on and with decent screen good for some touring.
Its no doubt the Chinese bikes are coming in a big way with affordable prices, they need to prove reliability long term with reliable back up from quality dealerships.
The kove 800 at 165KG dry is where its at, cant wait for it to come out .
You should also check QJ Motor SRT700x….a better deal and bike than the CF Moto. At least in Germany. Just saw you recommended Benelli TRK702. Same bike. But the package on the SRT700 is much better here in Germany. Cheers from Berlin! Rainer
That was a fantastic video, i test rode a cfmoto 800 mt today (24/5/24) and i loved it although i did find the throttle sensitive but not snatchy , its seriously good value,, im trading in a 4 yr old v strom 650xt , i have considered the new "v" strom 800 RE but the lack of equipment on it is ridiculous, i dont need a heated seat or cruise control for that matter but a centre stand is an absolute must on any chain driven bike , so if cfmoto are giving me more than i need for a price i want to spend then thats fine with me 😂😂, i might never use these extras/luxuries but i got them for free compared to the Japanese and bmw's cost for these luxuries.
The public need an upstart like cfmoto to drag these other manufacturers in to line.
Rant over😂
Great insight and always enjoy the 'left field' discussions. Much sense spoken. Is the Reiju Adventura 500 also going to be in the mix I wonder? Any chance you're getting a ride on one of them Nathan?
Very keen to try the reiju but it seems to be taking a long time to come to market. And not cheap at £7500
@@nathanthepostman...and not light with 40kg of fuel on board, but looks interesting. No doubt it'll get heavily discounted after a year of not selling well...!
Second hand triumph tiger springs to mind. Especially the 800.
Cf moto owns KTM in as much as it owns the majority of the company. That said the Voge DSX 900 i own in spain is a beast and a crazy price here €8888 its a. Beast on and off road. It will be interesting how its recieved in the UK. Ps i also own an older bullet proof VStrom 650XT
For me a big selling point for a v-strom has always been a reputation for excellent reliability. I can't think what it might take to motivate me to buy a Chinese bike, KTM or CF Moto.
I have had Suzuki DR 650...400..350....and have a 1995 DR 800 I have also had KTM 350 and 690 .......Suzuki any day of the week for me.
The CFmoto MTX consept bike is presumably more like the KTM 790. It has the same low down gas tanks.
Oh wow you were about a 10 minute drive from me when you were at the top of the hill near the white horse
I could have brought up my CT110!
Ah that's a shame. We could have had a drag race up the hill!
The ‘Strom isn’t quite an off roader, isn’t quite a tourer. The biggest missing thing for me is cruise control & heated grips… I wouldn’t mind the CF Moto to be honest & I would also look at the Benelli 702X too!
The Suzuki 650 is a proven engine that excels at everything. No way any Chinese bike is close to being that good.
How about an oil analysis of the first oil change of the cfmoto? See how it is wearing.
It could be interesting but I suspect it'd be no different to how the KTM 790 is wearing. Probably not something for me and my resources to conduct.
You are so right about manufacturers not listening! Too much hype and lacking in substance!!
There is a more road/touring focused V-Strom imminent if it's not out already which could be the version that could be more V-Strom.
Its an interesting one mate dad an I are gonna be buying this class of bikes.
Im a confirmed Suzuki fan had 7 of them this time round the 800de has left me cold its a shame they didnt use the dr big name as you say then just update an keep the vtwin 650xt.
It almost makes me think Suzuki were chasing the T7 but missed the mark. (Ive not ridden the 800 though)
Ive had 7 Yamahas an 7 Suzukis
Yamaha x7
Rd250lc x2, Rd350lc x2, Rzv500r x1, Rd250c x1, Harris tz350g
Suzuki x7
Rmz250, vstrom 650xt, vstrom 1000xt, gsxr600k9, gsxr750k9, gsxr750l1, 1982 gsx750et.
Its interesting that ive always leant towards the Suzukis for the modern stuff (the gsx750et was truly an epic touring 80s muscle bike i loved it an my now friend Steve who bought it from me has been all over europe on it the alps track days etc)
This time round we've actually been leaning towards the Yamaha T7 205kg wet with Japanese reliability an a cable throttle. So same weight as the 411 an we are gonna approach the routes we do with easy in mind as dads just had a bit of bad news medical wise an is having a biopsy on his prostate next week so all fingers crossed on that.
The other day we got to see the new lowered explore edition T7 made it super managable for dad even though its only a drop to 860mm an im gonna repeat a similar seat drop on a used one for him an a full height one for me, fits like a glove.
The downside on the t7 is the tubed Wheels a few ways round that though n same for the fuel range.
The reliability aspect is really winning out initially we thought 890/901 Norden but the common immobiliser fault needing trailering to a dealer an the widespread cam issues put us off in the end its a shame as those low fuel pods are so clever.
When i did my why vstrom video on the 650xt i owned an loved i mentioned missing cruise for the long motorway routes but that fly by wire would be a trade off it feels like they half did it on the 800de that maybe generation 2 will be better but how long will that take and how will the market have moved on.
Its like some of the Japanese brands are repeating the mistakes of the British bike industry.
I cant imagine them just watching the loss of market share though wonder what they have under wraps.
I really agree though with living with a bike for a while a good week to a month gives a much better picture after buying one i think an then as you say residuals come into it.
Yeah that low seat T7 does look good doesn't it, and nicely manageable. But as you say, still tubed and no cruise
@@nathanthepostman yep thats the trade off for sure, sorta refreshing it being simple though alot to be said for that:) we have actually been looking at the Lowering kit Yam did for the standard height T7, 38mm drop. Part links part seat, from what the dealer said that explore was done on internals felt a different bike even at 860mm clever what they've done.
Shame they didn't put tubeless on the explore that was a real miss I thought.
One thing that's all over the map is the insurance max no claims, full licence 15 years ish good area (unemployed with the move) with a stealth tracker
Quotes
800de an t7 £800 quid transalp £1400 ouch! Using one of the main insurance companies the transalp was 100 quid more for dad as well.
Btw, all the 250 two strokes X7, RD,KH all had centre stands in 1979.
@@marksimpson5218 so does my 1927 Norton 16h Mark along with my 60s stuff it's a pain them not coming with them standard now when even back at the dawn of motorcycling they did.
Front and rear stands built in on the 1927
Suzuki sell a lot because of low finance. 2.9% being typical. Less than you can borrow elsewhere. When the rates come down from 9.9% things might change. Money talks.
Spot on re the 450MT. Watching that very closely.
Currently on a spoked tubeless 650 strom which is everything you say. Rode the 800 and outside of the engine saw nothing to make me want to change.
Will Suzuki make a new DR400? They should.
Ride safe 👍
You need to compare it to the comparable VStrom, the RE.
It might be made in the same factory and have the same engine as a KTM but I bet the firmware on the ECU isn’t the same. Hard to argue with the value for money though.
Have you tried the kove 450 rally yet? Would be interested in your opinion
Not yet. Keen to tho
The CFMoto is coming in at a price some manufacturers offer their packages. For me, the right “adventure bike” is one I can drop without requiring therapy . . .
Interesting. I thought the CFMoto would be as good as the KTM. Shame the Suzuki doesn't have tubeless tyres. Nick
If the CF Moto 450MT came with cruise control, it’d be my next bike. Instead, I’m looking at the Tuareg.
The conditions were horrible, but I felt Chris was being a little diplomatic on that bikes offroad capability. Compared to how comfortable he seemed on the new Himalayan, its obvious that the weight is a big factor.
Yes I thought the same and it actually looked quite hard work even in his hands so I'm happy to stick on tarmac with this mid weight class
@@nathanthepostman one thing I really do like about the bigger bikes offroad though is being able to leave it in second and they'll just power up anything you point it at. Probably down to my experience at the time, but I had a spell of 150cc - 390cc type bikes, and I always found myself in the wrong gear at the wrong moment!
Separate note, I did find it mildly amusing that for all the improvements you'd make to this bike...you were basically describing on paper a V-Strom pre this model!
V strom a road bike imo. Got one and I love it.
The cf MOTO uses the 790 engine but nothing else, the mapping and power delivery is all to do with cfmoto, not Ktm
Thanks for confirming. I suspected that must be the case.
What's your thoughts on the Voge 800 dx
No sure about the 800. I know there's the 900 coming which has the BMW 900 XR engine in it. That'll be here in a couple of months I believe. It looks a lot of bike for the money and will probably be very competitively priced. I'd expect it to be around the price of this CF moto
@nathanthepostman yeah sorry I meant the 900 , I think that might three 800MT beater. I hope we see it in Australia
Yeah i think it could be. I've got the 525 DSX on loan soon and apparently that's been selling very well in Europe so it looks like Voge are on a bit of a roll at the minute@@droflivelife
@nathanthepostman look forward to your feedback on the 525
You can watch all the reviews and read all the marketing info till the cows come home. The only thing that matters is when your arse is on the seat and you go down the road.
Clear that the path for KTM is to move almost all production over to China/CF moto and maybe just assemble special editions in Austria. Triumph have done the same with offshoring production to Thailand and it doesn’t appear that quality has declined. If they can assemble a KTM in Austria they can do it cheaper with quality control in China. European assembled bikes are getting so expensive it seems the only way to remain competitive. As usual, Japanese bikes are beautifully made but just not that well thought out. They’ll always have a market for those who prize build and reliability over anything else - but by then their bikes will be made offshore too in all likelihood 😂
Too heavy, tall and under equipped for me. I suppose it’s that one bike for everything concept with Japanese levels of reliability. I looked at the road based version, then the sportier versions as I needed a road bike to replace a Vitpilen 701-that I’m sadly not gelling with at all. In the end it came down to either a tiger sport 660 or, an Aprilia Tuono 660 and the Tuono pipped the Triumph on trade in offer, equipment, weight and aesthetics. I ended up getting the factory version. I’d considered the Tuareg but there’s no way I’m doing green lanes on that as it’s too tall, too heavy and too expensive to suffer drops when I have a Yamaha Serrow and a Fantic 500 scrambler.
If the Chinese keep to moderate pricing, they will do for "modern" machines, what Royal Enfield have done for retros. If they, or their importers get greedy and try to edge nearer to the established brands, they will simply get a (small?) share of that market. Stay moderate and they will become that market.
That MT450 will havet o be good, there are many Honda 500X on the market, with known reliability second hand. That MT800 looks mega top heavy, even if its mostly plastic. Fugly.
I personally think the 450 will be very good. Plus have a lot more versatility than the 500X to boot, especially for trails. Shame Honda didn't do more with the NX500
@@nathanthepostman Honda, like the other manufacturers, try to appeal to the masses, rather than the niche. Just more money in it. Easier for them to convince the buying public "this is the bike you need" , rather than this is the bike you want and asked for. The NX dont look to bad, but just another Big H marketing ploy, unfortunately.
I dont fancy a Chinese KTM.
Unfortunately if you buy a 790 Adventure it is a Chinese KTM, and the 890 engine is built there as well. Probably a lot of the components to boot.
@@nathanthepostman stand in anybodies front room, point a finger and turn 360 degrees. I think many people would be amazed at just how much of what was pointed at has been made in China.... and not just the electronics, that includes the furniture, light switches, electrical wiring. etc, etc.
yeah but the CF Moto 800 has the KTM clunky loud engine from the 790. It’s nowhere near as Smooth or quiet. And that’s the reason I sold my KTM 790
You don't get owt for nowt
Yeah, but it is not a V-Strom - it really is a P-Strom ... flicking the 'V' or taking the 'P' ? Who knows ?
If the Chinese brands are stepping up on quality at good prices, then maybe the major brands will need to offer more competitive prices.
I’ve looked at new bikes but decided to keep my Tiger 800 and invest a little money to make it suit my needs.
But never say never.
Good review Nath.
Seat like a plank of Wood and tubeless spoked wheels nah I'll give it a swerve
Most quality adventure bikes with spoked wheels are tubeless? It’s an advantage!
Sorry Mate.... Cf Moto is by far the best choice
Of course Japanese workers earn a reasonable living wage and don't think you can say that about their Chinese counterparts.
New Cfmoto not vstrom , pls this kind of titles are lame
Thanks for the comment
The once great Suzuki has been out of touch with their market for 20 years offering obsolete outdated designs. China appears to be listening to what the customers want.
I’ll never buy cfmoto, resale is horrible. I like to know that if I want to upgrade I can get decent money back. X
I totally agree, dealers will hammer you come trade in time. It’s bad enough with well known brands.
I have learned over the years not to stick it to myself and downgrade over a few bucks. I'd rather own something of quality I'll be happy with and the Suzuki will hold its value better. I'm willing to bet more $ would be lost on the CFMOTO as an investment than the price difference between the bikes when it's time to sell.
I did buy the 800DE and I have no buyer's remorse. Fun and comfortable bike! Good in the dirt too!
Ibex, no thanks. I can't stand clanky engines and Amazon accessories.
I too believe the 84 hp number is low for the 800DE. Behaves more like a 100 hp bike. The DE seems more lively than my Africa Twin yet I really like the AT because of the quality.
Good video!
your right it isn't a KTM, the CFmoto is more reliable lol 😂no melted cams, no electrical gremlins, no bad manufacturer warranty, lets be honest KTM have an appalling record for producing decent dependable adventure bikes, why do you think KTM never allowed Charlie and Ewan take their bikes around the world, they haven't changed since, still producing crap that breaks
Once again,designed by none bike riders.
Great stuff fella…let’s hope the Japanese manufacturers watch this!