WHAT IS AN ADVENTIST? | A Recap & Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- What does it mean to be an Adventist? Who decides who's in and who's out? Is there room at the table of Adventism to disagree while pursuing the same mission? These are the answers we search for in this series from Seeking What They Sought. In this final episode, the guys reflect on our discussions and takeaways from the series.
linktr.ee/seek...
Have a question you want us to discuss? Comment? Maybe you disagree with something we said? Either way, we'd love to hear from you! Shoot us an email at: seekingwhattheysought@gmail.com
Dr Tim Jennings was spot on
If you all do have a conversation about the investigative judgement and sanctuary please have Tim Jennings back on. He has the best explanation for both topics of anyone I've heard in Adventism. It makes absolute sense to me whereas our traditional view does not.
Tim has an interesting hermaneutic. I’m doing a series on this topic as well if you want to watch and comment. I just love learning about Christ.
There is no investigative Judgement found in scripture the explanation of Daniel 8 14 is in Maccabees and Hannuka celebrated by the Jews and the winter festival celebrated by our Lord which is also Hannuka.
Present truth is that the IJ is false and Ford is correct and Myles is correct. IJ must be rejected because Adventism was not a Christian Church in the formation of this doctrine and was not led by the Holy spirit because of the Churches stand of the heracy of Arianism
I left the Church years ago and become Anglican, also called the Church of England .the indentity of Christians in this Church is they are Christian and don't have a demoninational identity as Adventists do . If your a christian that is it and it matters not as long as the Apostals creed and Nicean creed is believed including the doctrine of the trinity.
Having a young family I didn,t believe the Adventist was safe with a number of Canberra Adventists joining the Branch Davidians. Adventist Churches stay small with only two churches here in Canberra while the Church I attend is a Church plant which has planted two churches of its own in the last twenty years.
@@barryford1482 Adventism has a voice in the Christian faith and its message is valuable as are the messages of many of our fellow Christian denominations. That being said, the concept of a pre-advent judgement is presented in Scripture. (1 John 2:1-2, Heb. 9:27-28, 2 Cor. 5:10, 1 Cor. 3:11-15, Rom. 8:1, John 5:21-25, and Matt. 12:36-37). Adventists call this judgment the investigative judgement. This theology was guided by our Arminian theology of atonement, in particular the governmental theory of atonement.
If you disagree that is fine, but calling Adventists non-Christian is uncharitable. However, a charitable discussion can be useful. Des Ford has presented his information. It raises some good questions, but these questions have been addressed and addressed well.
Regarding Dan. 8:14. Antiochus Epiphanies just doesn’t fit for me. The book of Daniel is clearly pointing to the consummation of all things. Christ is the focal point and Antiochus had nothing to do with Christ’s ministry. Dan. 9:24 has strong Day of Atonement language. Dan. 8 parallels Dan. 7. The little horn is greater than those before it and it comes out of Rome. Finally, there are allusions to this type of power in Revelation. Why would Revelation be pointing to Antiochus?
There is so much more to learn. My plan, keep reading the Bible, pray often, and share the love of Christ. Blessings.
Agreed! Tim Jennings is spot on and has done much to refine my understanding as to what God is really like!
Appreciate the transparency of this series. This broad discussion was needed when I was raised in the SDA church; no longer member. God bless your podcasts and all those who listen with an open mind and heart.
Good series! Thank you! Tim Jennings and Ty Gibson were my top favorites.
Same for me!
Would like to see you all do more of this. It's really nice on how gracious toward everyone you were and the sense of humor was helpful. :) A place where we can hear different perspectives is great.
The story of the Good Samaritan speaks to me regarding how we approach our presentation of our faith. The one reconciled to Christ in that story had the wrong theology. However, it is our dependence on Christ that matters. Is Adventism right in everything? Impossible, we have our faults. However, focus on Christ and things come together. Christ is the Truth. We need to let people in and out of our church find Him. We need to share Christ, not push people away from Christ using theology as a weapon.
I appreciate your willingness to have these interactions. I definitely don’t agree with some of the approaches of a few of the guests. I actually don’t mind listening to Myles. I believe he is a bit too fundamentalist in his hermeneutic which leads to conclusions that are not reconcilable with the Bible, but we all negotiate the Bible and our faith in various ways.
I work with people of all walks of faith. I have found Adventism to be very Biblical, practical, and beneficial. I enjoy my church and fellowship. We serve our community well and support people of all faiths.
Anyhow, keep reading the Bible, praying, and sharing the Gospel.
Great thoughts. Thanks for listening, friend!
The convo w Anthony and Jesse near the end is gold. It makes me hopeful that we can be a movement that's about who we follow vs about what we follow. And IMO the fundamentals could do a better job of communicating a worldview about Jesus. I think it could use an update or two lol. But anyways, thank you guys - the series has helped me plant a firm foundation on what I can do as an Adventist and where I can lead others as we keep seeking.
So glad it was encouraging!!
I don’t think about being Adventist. I am a person who is loved, and changed by that love. I experienced being loved by Adventist Christians, and Christian’s of other denominations. I have experienced deep failures of my Adventist family. And have found Jesus is my foundation not Adventists.
Wow, you're not loyal to the institution!! Traitor! We don't want you anyway.
We have right doctrinal attestations, the right day of worship, (Yeah, Sabbath; pfft, Sunday? No thanks.) the right understanding of the sanctuary service, (Yeah, expiate means to cleanse; not to propitiate, haha, penal-legal theologians.) and we are the remnant church spoken of in Revelation.
What do you have?
“Oh, I love God.”
Pfft, just sentimentalism based on nothing factual or substantive. What Ellen White calls lovesick sentimentalism. Get off your high-horse and proclaim that you're happy to be Seventh-day Adventist. Don't be a Sadventist.
BTW: BEFORE anyone says anything-this is a parody. I do not condone militant sectarianism and desire that all love God and others more than self. 😅😂
Great conversation guys. Thanks for doing this series. Do a live stream and let us call in next time!
Dude we're not smart enough to field LIVE questions 🤣 Who do you think we are, Doug Batchelor?!
I used to know Myles personally! He’s a really good guy but he is so argumentative 😅 I loved the episode!
This has been an interesting series. I was particularly interested in this wrap up. The surprising thing to me is how tentative the beliefs of the presenters seem to be after the conclusion of all the interactions.
I was not raised an Adventist but became one after reading the Bible on my own when I was 17.
While I do not believe that SDAs are the sole possessers of truth, the story that they present is both biblical and compelling---even as I recognize that some parts appear more firmly established than others and some people misuse and abuse them and mistepresent God.
Still, I agree with Ellen White who said "Most people have no idea how firmly the foundation of our faith is laid."
How do you now define "Present Truth," please?
Any one of you guys want to come onto our new series "Adventist Talk" and discuss what you learned about your series, "What is an Adventist?"
I'd love to watch that!!!! Guys, please consider this request.
That sounds interesting; let’s talk more!
@@seekingwhattheysought8247 Where do I contact you guys to set it up?
Gentlemen, you are all missing the point of Myles program!
There are two critical points you missed:
1. Adventism is a Cult
2. Adventism have NOTHING to do with the Church of Matthew 16:18. In the context of what Christ came to do, Adventism is ABSOLUTELY irrelevant!!!
Your logic is circular (easy for me to say from outside Adventism). But your hearts are sincere. I pray God makes your church’s inconsistencies clear to you.
The bible isn't cirdcular and Adventist teach straight from it. (I'm not an Adventist.)
SDA's talk about "present truth". Is it supposed to be something the SDA church declares "present truth". Who would determine what is present truth?
_" Who would determine what is present truth?"_
The cult leader
@@nonconformist4802 Not at all. It is just about learning more and more from the bible that might not have been understood before.
@@xymonau2468 No, learning more and more is progressive revelation. Present truth as you can see from the use in this series is extremely vague. For more about the term and its history see: cafesda.blogspot.com/2010/09/defining-and-redefining-present-truth.html
Ellen herself often said they must remain a peculiar (unique) people.... Dress and act plain to not blend in with the world, do not attract attention. Yet, that very fact in and of itself calls attention to The Group, and pride in doing so..
She never said dress differently. Just not to lead and not to trail acceptable fashion. " Christians should not take pains to make themselves a gazing-stock by dressing differently from the world. But if, when following out their convictions of duty in respect to dressing modestly and healthfully, they find themselves out of fashion, they should not change their dress in order to be like the world; but they should manifest a noble independence and moral courage to be right, if all the world differ from them. If the world introduces a modest, convenient, and healthful mode of dress, which is in accordance with the Bible, it will not change our relation to God or to the world to adopt such a style of dress." Testimonies for the Church 1:458.
You are making a contribution by giving people a chance to discuss. In my view, most people in Western nations are moving away from religion not just Adventism. They see the bickering of religious people over trivial things like doctrine & rituals. If people of all faiths can be clear on the basic purpose of religion--which is to link humanity with the creator, thus, promote concord & prosperity of humankind--they would emphasize the commonalities & cooperation in the work of advancing civilization. Otherwise, in the age of planetization of humankind, religion will be viewed by increasing millions as irrelevant to the major issues of our time.
Please get Denis Kaiser on. It would be really cool to hear him talk on certain issues and topics regarding Adventism.
Thanks for the Series! ☺️🙏🏽
Kaiser would be great! He was one of my professors in seminary. He’s definitely on a list of potential guests! - Anthony
If Ellen's Master Demerit Checklist of Do's and Dont's Disappeared, what would Adventism look like? Example: Can one be translated wearing red toenail polish?
There will be people with bones through their noses and some covered in tattos so I doubt that God will find it hard to deal with red toenail polish, particularly since people will be given new bodies. Not everyone is convicted by the same things at the same time. And they may have been convicted of something more important that you neglect.
Enjoyed the series would’ve loved more episodes on the same question. Now it’s over I am left wondering that if it defining what an Adventist is, is so nuanced to the point of being borderline subjective, would you/we encounter the same problem if the question was, “What is a Christian?”
I admire you guys openness to discuss sometimes difficult topics, but I think you may just need to open the Bible and just read what it says and see how your beliefs match up to it. I think this would profit you more than a lot of the reasoning that is taking place.
That's what I was thinking as well.
You have many presuppositions and assumptions at play, at least in this video, between the four of you. They could be confusing to a large number of people without those shared backgrounds.
I'm a fourth generation Adventist on one side of my family, a retired pastor, as well as a recovering addict.
I do have my own channel and I'm focusing very much on Scripture, for the simple reason that it is the word of God, it is understandable, it is effective for salvation for anyone with a heart to believe. It is self- authenticating being the mediated voice of God himself and will accomplish what he sets it out to do, a revelation of who he is and what he is doing among us in Christ.
Ditto, Marlon.
You’re trying to change the format of their platform. This is not a Bible study, or a debate, which they have elaborated on. It’s more like a video podcasts where various vids can be expressed… this is what we the viewers are wanting from this. If I want a more Bible study format then there are other channels to go to
Yall need to open a Branch Office in Chicagoland. Hinsdale, IL is a "Blue Zone Mecca." You have fascinating discussions and studies, which I enjoy. Church Return: NO.
It is within the very fabric of the remnant doctrine to hold distinctive beliefs.
_"It is within the very fabric of the remnant doctrine to hold distinctive beliefs."_
Who have told you that rubbish?
"distinctive beliefs" is the mark of satan - Go read Acts 19
@@nonconformist4802 What about Acts 19?
@@apostolicdoctrine101
Sorry, I have forgot, you people don't read the Bible, all you know is what was spoon fed to you.
How silly of me to expect this of you.
@@nonconformist4802 It is not the first time that you and I have had a conversation in the pass and somehow you have refused to have a serious conversation regarding our fundamental beliefs. I am more than happy to engage in lively conversation via zoom.
@@apostolicdoctrine101
_" I am more than happy to engage"_
I am not here to play a spiritual Ping Pong games with you, that is why you have a comment section to engage in, IF YOU ARE ABLE.
Why don't you rather engage the demonic doctrines of your cult as was formulated by your goddess EGW, that would be a great start for you?
Like the one that you *REFUSE* to preach the saving gospel as was preach by Paul for instance.
“To the Seventh-day Adventist Church has been committed, this message. The everlasting gospel was preached by Noah, by Abraham, by Paul and Peter, and by all the prophets and apostles of past ages. It was preached in the setting appropriate to their day. *WE CANNOT PREACH THIS GOSPEL AS NOAH PREACHED IT, OR AS PAUL OR LUTHER GAVE IT.* It is for us to preach it in the setting of God's great threefold message of Revelation 14.”
The Advent and Sabbath Review Herald. November 29, 1934. p.1
Therefore you are a cursed denomination according to the Word of God. Galatians chapter 1
Or just for fun, give me one link of you speaking out against the NON OBEDIENT BEHAVIOR of your cult regarding the six commandment.
Yes, I would like to see where you have a problem with the killing of the innocent in your own hospitals.
If you failed one, you failed them all. James 2: 10
Yes and that includes your Sabbath keeping LAW.
I really don't know what you want to convinced me about your cult fundamental demonic doctrines that I don't know yet, for it seems that you have forgot that we have in this modern day Internet and the means to communicate with Ex SDA cult members at the push of a button.
This series is ending?!?!?! OH NO!!!!!!! Love to drop in, but NO,I will not be back to renew my membership card ````
All good things must come to an end! Sorry friend; but more episodes are on the way! Thanks for listening!
Gods love . Knowing the worst about. someone, But saying,thinking doing the best!
Anthony said that "...she was Pro abolitionist before any other really any Christian writer in North America at the time..."
That is not even remotely true. There were many anti-slavery Christian preachers and writers long before EGW.
An Adventist follows and obeys all teachings, "line upon line, precept upon precept," in order to keep their white starched robes without spot nor blemish; else they will cause Jesus to be sad and/or angry, and most guardian angels spend too much time weeping. They rarely simply teach about the love of God outside that paradigm. They are prideful in a 163 yr movement overshadowing the first Church established by Jesus Christ over 2,000 years ago. Teach a positive message - I grew to loathe their constant hate-bashing of other religions. Just how do they get off thinking they know more than anyone else on The Planet God Created?
If you viewed Adventism from the perspective of the people around you, then it must have been as you clearly expressed it. However, if you view Adventism from the Biblical perspective, then it is a blessings. The later has been my experience of Adventism.
Did you form a relationship with Jesus through prayer and bible study and sharing for yourself? You will always be surrounded by hypocrites. That's a given. But who is going to help lead them out of their works trip? Samuel was raised by a weak Eli and his terrible crooked sons. He didn't spend his time complaining about the terrible people around him. He walked with the Lord. Jesus was raised in Nazareth. Plenty of hypocrites there. But he still attended the synagogue every week and participated in it. Of course the love of Jesus is the whole basis of salvation. But there are 66 books in the bible and so there is more to say than that. And the book of James puts it into perspective. Nobody can obey by trying to obey. God in them is the one who enables them. And people won't get far seeking obedience. Only seeking Jesus. That doesn't mean you shouldn't also do good works of all kinds. That brings glory to God. And recogniose the past problem, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. God never instructed anyone to leave his church, even when things were terrible. And there are always people who "have not bowed the knee to Baal" and you will find them if your heart is in the same place.
Have you guys ever checked out FAF - Former Adventist Fellowship - Podcast and YT. Expand your horizons...
Just trying to justify something that has a wrong foundation
I left so my kids would found the true gospel / Jesus Christ…
I heard this kind of excuses from people that are afraid to defend word of God (Galatians 1) and want to justify their own gospel
They found Jesus in the holy sanctuary .. no in their hearts due Jesus lost his omnipresent… an SDA told me that 😅
The mission of each church is to show the true Gospel
You’d have to invite Myles back so he can heard your comments or justifications to stay in a movement that is lying to you
@@CordovaJ09 There are lots of incorrect, stupid or crazy people in eveery church. What does the church say on the subject as opposed to what one person told you?
An Adventist is basically a Baptist that goes to Church on the Seventh Day Sabbath instead of the Catholic First Day sabbath!
The word "Modern day Pharisees" describes them better
Close, but they are also like Methodists, too.
@@nonconformist4802 You must have met some people who are in all churches to upset and deter people. The devil plants them. That doesn't mean the religion is in any way faulty. Lots of pharisees in the Baptist, Methodist and other churches.
How do you describe the Investigative Judgement in a way that actually sheds positive light on God's character of love? The way it was taught to me instilled fear and lack of assurance. I feel that I am Adventist to the core, but this doctrine as described by many in the church does not fit the most important one belief I hang everything else on----God is LOVE. I would like to hear your description of this doctrine.
I’m doing a series on this doctrine now if you want to follow. Discussion is good.
How can I access this series?
@@PrairieChristianOutreach
Also, are you part of "Seeking what They Sought"? I would like to get an answer from the hosts of the show as they brought up the subject. But I will look into your channel. Thx.
@@drobinson6154 I am not a part of "Seeking What They Sought". I'm a lay leader for the Adventist church. I work in prison ministries. You can watch my series buy accessing my RUclips channel.
Thanks for sharing friend, and for listening. Also….we may or may not be planning a series investigating the doctrine of the sanctuary & investigative judgement👀. So…stay tuned!!
There are so many ways to say what an Adventist is. I'll give 7. They all currently coexist. But are some more correct than others?
1. Someone who believes in the 7th day Sabbath from sunset Friday.
And believe Jesus is coming again
2. A Christian who believes in the bible teaching righteousness by faith and goes to church on the Sabbath.
Expect to be resurrected by Jesus at His 2nd coming.
3. A Christian who believes strongly in bible prophecy (Daniel, Revelation and Ellen White predictions)
Which will vindicate the true 7th day Sabbath - opposed with the Mark of the beast.
And then Jesus' 2nd coming will come after everyone is in the countryside running from Babylon.
4. A Christian* who aims to seek diligently for God will and word (not just the bible) to grow in grace and not be deceived.
The Sabbath is one key point of finding truth and not deception - worshipping God wrong (Mark of the beast)
Looking to speed up Jesus' 2nd coming by finding and spreading all truth (the gospel and other facts of God and life) by the spirit. So every one has a fair deal.
5. A Christian who believes in being saved by grace, the gospel, and in a personal relationship with a God of love.
6. A Christian* who believes in the bible alone and the Spirit of prophecy (EGW) doesn't necessarily attend a church but keeps the Sabbath and all the commandments of God themselves.
Believes Jesus is coming back very soon.
7. Someone who is known for living the gospel.
* Where I put the word *Christian*, let us all assume they believe in the death of Jesus being our atonement and righteousness.
_"The Sabbath is one key point of finding truth and not deception - worshipping God wrong (Mark of the beast)"_
NON- Biblical statement out of the pits of hell.
@@nonconformist4802 explain please
@@ThatLee4
What part of my statement do you find difficult to comprehend?
@nonconformist4802 the explanation part that's missing. Try putting your statement into a context
@@ThatLee4
Your words:
_""The Sabbath is one key point of finding truth and not deception - worshipping God wrong (Mark of the beast)"_
I have said it is out of the pits of hell, *BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT ONE BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENT.*
What part must I explain?
Wake up man, you are deceived because you DO NOT READ YOUR BIBLE ON YOUR OWN, BUT ONLY THROUGH THE EYES OF YOUR CULT!!!
"In the same way the pharisees were jewish..." Oh yes.
I believe this discussion demonstrates the confusion this denomination is constantly in.
The SDA cult must be from satan, for the Bible say that God is not a God of confusion
Get a few Baptists together and I can assure you it would be far more confused. Ask them, "Do you believe in pre-trib or post-trib" for starters.
@@xymonau2468
Galatians 1:8 warns about preaching a false gospel…. Not about having a unified understanding of everything in Revelation.
Adventists have an official statement on Investigative Judgment that is not in agreement with the Gospel taught by Paul.
At least the other denominations have a gospel the aligns with orthodox Christianity. SDA’s have multiple versions of the gospel preached. This isn’t controversial statement as books from Adventists have been written on this aspect of the church.
Yes, Bereans.
The Bible is about God, NOT us. The Gospel--good news--is a God-centric message, NOT a sin-centric or human-centric message. The Bible is not an encyclopedia about Christianity and its history or about humanity and its history of sinfulness or about how to overcome our sinfulness. That said, all of that is in there because it "reveals" so much about what God is like, how He relates to the special life form of humans that He created out of love.
It does tell us how to overcome sinfulness. Lots of places.
@@xymonau2468 Of course it does, but that is not "what it is about". The Power of reading the Bible is in seeing how God relates to sinful human beings down through our sordid history. There is no Power in reading the Bible to learn how to stop sinning, how to behave righteously, how to become like Christ so the Father will accept me.
Covenants vs Commandments ~~~
52:49 we need to be real careful in trying to "fill in the gaps" of the Bible. This is when deception creeps in.
You can’t actually be a true Christian and understand what AdventISM actually teaches.
The basic Bible 101 principles are clear.
Can a bad tree bear good fruit?
Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean Adventists are wrong? Because they are bearing fruit all over the world.
Yawn