Mt. Tom Coal Train 8/1993 Derailment
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2015
- I was chasing a Mount Tom coal train on a sunny day in August 1993.
Things didn't go as planned for the crew that day. Stacked 8-10 up on the Chestnut Street Crossing in West Hatfield. Shot as the crew was discovering the scope of the derailment.
Seeing that much bounce in the rails, I would not have been standing that close.
The train speed wasn't excessive so the carriages are not likely to fly off
@@eamonstafford2056 the specific name for the cars are coal hoppers. hoppers filled with coal.
I meant wagons. I am sure most learned people knew what I meant.
@@eamonstafford2056 oh well I didnt
@@Unknown_Bread probably because you haven't worked on the rail for as long as some of us have
To heck with the derailment. That EMD sound notching up is just grand!
LordCarpenter also love the sound of the jointed rail too good old days
LordCarpenter: That may be true. But the end result was catastrophic....
Yep! Those SD40-2 sounds great
Nice footage,the horn on the motor sounded very weak. You could tell the track was in bad shape by listening before the de-railment footage. Thanks for sharing.
Well Ollie, that’s another fine mess you got us into!!
These old videos are amazing
4:30 Seemed kind of fast for the condition that track is in. That's hauling ass on marginal track.
scdevon - very much so. Track is clearly not welded and not meant for anything over 40
I remember seeing SP, UP and KCS run on jointed track in the 80's at speeds well over 40 MPH.. But they maintain the hell out of there tracks though
Nice photography in this video, but I think I would be filming from a little farther away. LOL.
scdevon argeed I guess Timothy Mellon didn't care for the bad track
scdevon Yeah, speed limit used to be mixed on the Conn River back in the 80’s and 90’s due to Guilford’s (at the time) hatred of Amtrak and the government.
Eventually the speeds went up on the Conn River and freight trains could do 40, but a track defect near Hatfield caused the derailment we saw here. Some jointed rail fractured, and a few rotted ties in close proximity of each other contributed to this accident.
Nowadays, Pan Am has been enjoying a much better and respectful relationship with Amtrak and the government, selling the Conn River to the State of Massachusetts and the federal government while upgrading the infrastructure to 79 for passenger and 40-50 for freight trains.
Eventually the Conn River from CPR 1 in Springfield to MPS 49 in East Northfield will be double tracked and upgraded to 110 MPH.
Trying to run a heavy coal train on junk tracks. Its ridiculous, they're just asking for a derailment!!
John L Waller unfortunately soft spots do appear under the ties. You will never see it, you may feel, but you’ll definitely know it was there when the train dumps
Cant run a drag train on just any track
1:23 faints a chessie system coal car with no graffiti? wow
This is what happens when you only invest in motive equipment. Obviously rail maintainance is not part of the investment.
Uphill slow, downhill fast, tonnage first and safety last!
If the track has been inspected and okay'd for 30 mph, he can run 30 mph or whatever the limit was. Speed is not necessary to pile up 10 cars, weight and momentum take care of causing the mess. Arm chair railroaders have it all figured out. He was not making 60.
As a laz-e-boy armchair railroader with 20-20 eyesight, the video showing the train crossing the road before showing the coal car's on their side was NOT going 30 miles per hour. 60 mph or higher is visually a reality here. Go and use your medical benefits and make an appointment to see an eye doctor. Obviously I would not want to have you as a accident witness in court.
You can't see s**t with your eyes open.
@Rick Prusak Did you see the tapes? No. You have no idea what speed they were going when they derailed, do you? No..
@Berkshire Dave ANY rail fan knows that many, just a bit under all trains, do not travel at the proper safety rail speed. With american industry and consumer goods companies demanding "on time delivery" every minute late on arrival to its destination the delivery companies including truck, air and train shipments get fined, or pay an hourly late fee As far as tapes go, are you really positive that all of the video tape is there ? Is there a video that clearly shows the position of the throttle handle? Were you actually in the locomotive cab during this rail trip? Are you a member of The National Transportation Board? Are you a trained professional accident investigator, Mr. Elliot Ness? Mr. Inspector Jaques Clusteau? Mr. J.Edgar Hoover? Yes, rolling stock rail cars go until the wheel bearings explode because there is no preventive maintenance on anything but on the locomotives as per ICC, and the US Department of Transportation and Safety Administration rules and guidelines. How do you definitely know that the locomotive engineer wasn't tipping a hip flask bottle or taking uppers to stay awake during long trip miles and hours? Didn't the engineer union go on strike recently to give the train gang more hours of sleep before their next shift? You think you have all the precise answers to what causes all railroad derailments and disasters, but you obviously don't know how to zip up your pants after peeing, or wipe your ass after taking a poop.
@@rickprusak9326 that was an emotionally charged response. No I don't know any of your questions obviously. But I was a conductor and I do know a thing or two more than an armchair railfan about the inner workings of railroading. Also, after all that you didn't answer my question.
Sad, and such a beautiful train too !!!
Saw an old B&O car...where did they get these cars, a museum
How fast was the train going on thatrack? Withe flexion you showed earlier, I would be concerned abouthat speed.
Cause of the derailment? Broken rail joiner? Broken rail?
4:43 you can literally see the trucks bouncing on that joint!
Yes, it needs ballast under the joint for sure. Seeing that is probably sets an example of the entire line. At least slow it down about 20 mph or to a safe operating speed,
Like I said it sounded like percussion
So what caused the accident?
This is what happens when you go 60 on track that had probably a 30 mph speed restriction on it. I know the investigation is probably long over but the NTSB would've found this footage very interesting.
this was recorded in 93 so maybe the footage did get to them? I doubt the person recording didnt share it with anyone
They were only doing 30MPH not 60. If I recall it was caused by a defective wheel on one of the cars.
Looks like around 25-30 to me. They definitely weren't doing 60.
Not going 60, but definitely more than 30. A world class human sprinter can hit about 25 mph. So if you can imagine standing there and a guy running past you at top speed +, that would be 30. This looks more than that. I used to walk in the country a lot around New England and Mass and Rhode Island back then and would come across many rail road tracks. Very old wooden ties, water logged, dry rot, no structure integriy, most spikes had long lost their cohesion to the wood and were loose.
Those tracks went by My house in South Deerfield and those trains never went fast. Mellon let those tracks go to hell. They were finally upgraded within the last 3 years for Amtrak and no more coal as Mt. Tom power plant is gone.
An excellent video. ♡ T.E.N.
The ground below the tracks was too soft? The tracks was bouncing when the train ran over? The maintenance crews didn’t care to repair them? The cars just sliding left to right while the train moving....
If I recall it was due to a defective wheel on one of the cars.
A Mount coal extra M703 got derailed?? How did that happen!?
this video didn't quite make any sense watching it start to finish..
did the derailment happened at the same Crossing and then there were pictures of it past
were there two different locations where you recorded this..
I know that there was a quad Crossing with to ungated signals was that smashed up in the wreckage to or was that a different place?
Last track maintenance check in 1937?
The date of this train was July 18, 1993. The train symbol was NU-24 with 81 cars.
I seen a the aftermath of a derailment . It makes one hell of a mess.
So what did the NTSB cite as the cause of this accident? The train is obviously going too fast for FRA Class 2 track, but I heard several cars squealing as though the brakes failed to release.
That part of track at the time was rated for 45 MPH.
@@Maine_Railfan The track appears to have had a long period of deferred maintenance after that rating was issued.
Great vid! Did they ever determine the cause? Do coal trains this long still run through this area?
To answer your first question, most likely bad track. A few years before this footage Amtrak's Montrealer had to stop using this line due to deteriorating track conditions, which is demonstrated in the clip where it crosses Depot Rd. As for your second question, the Mount Tom power plant shut down a few years ago so coal trains no longer run through here.
Cool, thanks for the info!
Fred Howland the issue was yes they don't use it because of the bad track and the coal plant shut down sadley
This has nothing to do with this but i live in woodbridge va have all my life have two tracks that run right by my house 1 mile away Amtrak auto train loads in Springfield va 8 miles from me anyways when i was a kid and up into my teenage years myself and my cousins would pickup all the coal off the train tracks and use it to start camp fires and started noticing a decline in coal on the tracks over the years and now i take my grandson down to watch the trains and i will get up on the tracks and look and i cant find any and its kinda sad to me just like when they stoped using the caboose iam only 48 but i do miss the little things like that i can remember the guy in the caboose yelling at me and my friends for playing on the tracks we have been doing since i was 10 or 11 but if you live right by them then thats what you do, sorry for interrupting your post jyst wanted to tell you guys about the coal and have tracks at route 28 in Manassas battle of bull run Cival war tracks
Patrick the track wasn't weld good enough and Fred howland they replaced the track in 2014
So after the derailment, why are they moving the partial train with the brakes on??
Brakes were applied for a dropped signal. Stop, then slow approach.
So, what caused the derailment? No details/explanations given.
@really sore knee why its just a video
FRA report S93040, speed 30 mph, train length 81 cars, CSXT 828653 derailed - 63 car, cause of accident - (nu-24) derailed 10 cars due to sunkink in track.
One of three things put this on the ground: faulty gauge width (sun-kink), axle fractures (overweight cars), or hit a bad frog. (I heard a lot of flat spots on wheel sets).
I'm surprised I dont remember this. I only lived a half hour away from Hatfield in 93 I would have been 16 and going to High school at Smith Voc in Northampton. Weird that I dont remember this.
Sucker must have been scootin' when that hit the ground to make a mess like that.
5:46 - imagine living in that house and a train comes by at 3am.
Relatable but it's not a big deal actually
Been there, Done that. Lived super close to a csx rail line.
Back in the 80s , Amtrak's Montrealer was due by that house right around that time!
you know how you can tell this is 93, 25 years ago? No goddamn graffiti all over the cars. Its RUINED railfanning for me, for years. I think the penalty for tagging ANYTHING should be 1 warning, then finger amputation, I swear to god. Call me barbaric, but its barbarians that do this. Do you know not a SINGLE tagger I've heard speak or read about believes tagging trains hurts anyone or anything, or is bad in any way? Entitled punks of today . . .
I agree 100% . It's not art, it's vandalism. I have a more extreme idea for punishment but probably shouldn't post here.
What’s the punishment? I’m curious
How did they keep graffiti off train cars back then?
Wow thats amazing, and lots of cool Chessie Coal cars there too
dpu alright!
Seems typical all over the world - wonderful engines and terrible tracks!
Is this the same line that goes through the Hoosac Tunnel?
James Howland Conn River Line from East Deerfield South to Springfield, so no it doesn’t go thru there :P
Awesome video great share 👍🏻🚂🔔 TSM
Why was it bad for the state police? And out of curiosity, Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word ??
im with this guy...
Sante Fe says, it just goes to show you that even good ole boys can still get coal in their stockings
Could not believe the speeds they were doing with that bad track
Some of the bearings don't sound to good.
With 4 rent a wrecks haulin' it what did they think was going to happen?
Linsey Doerpholz yeah dad what up
Linsey Doerpholz
Apparently nothing, rentawrecks can't tear up the track in a manner that makes only the back half of the train derail.
sd-40 the best 2 generation loco ever made.hardly wrecks.why don't you wash and wax them.im sure the railroad would like that.linsey
terry chalfant LEAVE MY DAD ALONE YOUR A HATER
terry chalfant oh nevermind sorry!
this was in 1993? I was 13 then. I wasn't exactly a good boy.
I'd be up in the wood line areas with a bunch of other friends who also weren't "good boys" and we'd be bagging all the coal we could.
Why?
We made forts in the woods back then, and we'd camp out there a lot. We'd have camp fires and grill outs at the forts we made... Imagine all the coal we could probably manage to get over several trips before things got too hot....
We'd have fire and BBQ for months LOL!
But all that crazy aside...
I wonder how much the cleanup and downtime cost this train company?
You dont ever want to cook over a bituminous coal fire... even if you got the fire hot enough to coke it your food would taste like a tar pit and you would probably get sick instantly.
Guilford at its finest. Operate the shabbiest railroad in the northeast. Make life miserable for customers and Amtrak. All this so Timothy Mellon can play with his trains.
PinkLaffs Boston and main is Guilford and Springfield terminal
PinkLaffs love the comment
PinkLaffs argee
Yup, this is the dark history of Guilford rail systems or should I say “ugggh”
Pan am nowadays, although pan am hasn’t had many derailments, but they did get stoped by teenagers
mikethestormchasingRBLXfarmingsim\more \yt
Mike that lead gatx horn is very fouled
Calling Corman Brothers!
the horn sounds sick
Lucas Hatch kinda sounds like a bad p3 doesn't it
Coal for sale, cash and carry.
By the piece or by the bucket.
Good one, Don! Thanks for the laugh.
I love the sound of EMD Locomotives.
Disappointing. All that footage yet you didn't film the actual derailment.
Alan Dunstan AGREED I wanted to see the derailment as well THUMBS DOWN
Well it's better than no video at all.
@William Anthony Leasure After watching this , I would wholeheartedly agree about the high "disappointment factor"...Would not "Aftermath of train derailment " be less misleading???
For the way he was flying along he might have got there after it happened
WHAT RAILROAD IS IT?
Guilford better known as Pan Am
Wow. I wonder if the sound of those clickety-clack audio sound videos would be seen in a soundtrack music video.
@05:47 oh no...
So what caused it?? Watched it 4 Imes,🤔
"On the ground" ~ some guilford conductor
Really, really in bad conditions railtracks ! No wondering of derailing.
8:00 the Coal Drag of Shame
5:00 that beat could be turned into some decent music...
Bearings on a couple of cars didn't sound that healthy
Steve Murray mellonhead
Maybe a couple of axles broke in half I wonder how well those cars were maintained.
That's was a minimum application of air. Those were brake squeaks.
I thought the same. I heard a lot of squealing going on!!
I can hear the metal clanking, can you? 1:18
1993 that’s the year my dad became a state trooper
Strikefighter04 who is your dad?
Same crossing i assume?
Guess not
I spy some Chessie cars!!
As train horns go, that was a pretty lame one. (3:00)
GATX is interesting- not too common but seems to be everywhere, and every locomotive looks different haha- i see GATX here in brooklyn
It’s a rail car leasing company
The lead locomotive looks like a repainted Union Pacific locomotive.
I bet the engineer spilt his beer.
Is it normal for track to bow/bend like that? :O
Engineer gets a D- for his horn signal on the Elm street grade crossing.
Well no wonder, they know better than to high shine a kettle back, they were betting on the cross grade.
If it derailed why did it not go in separation
Obviously pre-graffiti days.
7:19 what the fuck is randy doing they're?
Cause?
Defective wheel
Hi looks to me like Delaware and Hudson Canadian Pacific power
@@Maine_Railfan Thank you, MR. Did not remember having seen this before.
squeaking axils are poor maintenance and bearings to burn up and seize up. the thuds, are flat spots on wheels.
You understand theres condemning limits on everything on a railcar, right?
Wow wonder if any riders stobe shoestring dancer?
Lol. Was greedy to spend some thousands in upgrading the track. Now they are spending some millions.
Oops
Sucks for the chessie system cars those are rare
🚂The coal express
Ah yea Gene iiii aaaa daaaaa....think I fucked up with the speed
So let me get this straight lol. Someone actually Chase's this train all day to record it🤔. Good catch though.
Chases.
Awful fast on that crap jointed rail. Look at that rail joint at 4:21.
Show
Yes! I love seeing shit get fucked up!
I’m almost positive the sounds are from a game.
American railway systems and rolling stock appear to be out of date, badly maintained rubbish.
Don't matter if its out of date,if it hits you,your gonna die
Also this is (1993)
++@@therailfanningskeleton359++ Yes, well, none of this junk is likely to hit me up here where I live and secondly, if the stock and locomotives were this bad in 1993, as you indicate, they can only be in much worse a condition now. Quite honestly we were scrapping stuff in the 1960's which was 95% better than what you appear to be using now.
I REPORTED HIM. YOU CALL YOUR VIDEO TERRIBLE TOM COAL DERAILMENT AND SHOW NOTHING BUT TEN MINUTES OF GRASS GROWING.
4:10 that gatx loco does have a crappy horn but goin over the tracks sounds like drums
Oh my goodness, how have the US reached the moon? There is so much junk in this country. What is that for a railway track? What's with constant inspection? And Repairing or renew? Here in Germany it's not all optimal but such crap track I have never seen here....if the US have a 300+km/h high speed train, will they use it with that sort of track, too?
Better less money in military and more into new tracks 😂
juergen07091973 🤦🏻♂️You clearly know nothing of the USA’s main railroad transportation routes. You’re judging an entire country’s railroad system, a country who in every way shape and form is better than your’s, off one little line in the upper northeast section of the country... A LINE THAT DOESN’T EXIST ANYMORE... I have no words to describe how stupid you sound making that kind of judgement. All I can say is, do some better research. You’ll be amazed at how good our system is, and how much catching up Germany needs to be doing.
@@Steve_Hunts96
Ohoh, there is a big difference between us and German engineering. There is a reason why German machine engineering is wanted around the world, even in the USA....
@@juergen07091973first off, the US population is so spread out high speed rail will never work, and most passenger trains don't make a profit. Our infrastructure is more geared towards freight traffic, and there are some companies (Pan Am/Guilford) which let it go to hell, and then they apply for federal grants to repair it. And I like how you say that, but our military beat yours twice, and could add a third world war title to our profile.
@@Maine_Railfan your army: not really an art to have a higher military force. Compare only the defense budget. Germany doesn't have a really army. With this few soldiers, you can't really do anything. But there's good technology. Take the Abrams tank. It's grown from a german/us tank project. I think, the US know, why they did that. The leopard and Abrams have common roots.
Ok, in us, most passenger traffic is done by plane. But I think, there are enough distances, that are optimal for a high speed train and easier than a plane with all that check in, etc. And the train can transport persons with better energy economy. Flying is too cheap. But I'm sure, that will change.
@@Steve_Hunts96 it seems that you don't know very much about Germany. Here, you have for every shit technical security checks. Alone for your personal passenger car. You have to do a technical check all two years by an Organisation like TÜV. And believe me, you need it if you're allowed to drive 250km/h and more on high speed highway. You can be sure, here the train has a great speed limitation, if it drives over a track in that condition. It's not all optimal here, but tracks here are controlled and checked regularly and something will be done. Repair or limited speed or closed. Before such a crash happens.
Et ça donne des leçons au monde entier
Union Pacific Train
nope its Guilford using rentawrecks
It was bad
Change the name to aftermath! Don't be dishonest just trying to make a few dollars! Tums down👎
Bad
Lots of armchair rail experts here 🤣
Speeding is bullshit !
How ignorant do you have to be as a train driver if you can't even keep your train on 2 little rails without running them off and tearing hundreds of dollars of equipment up............
And they want to run coal trains through Seattle. At least this was in an area without a lot of density
What would happen if a coal train derailed in Seattle??
Coal is just bad...