I don’t think it needs a game, I think it needs an ‘export’ button that allows these assets to be transferred to a super-workshop that could be used cross entity. Then game builders could use this to import workshop assets into their game.
OOT. I came to your channel because of Open Map design video featuring Fallout 4. 7 years have passed since. FromSoft came with their own take with Elden Ring. Nintendo came with BOTW, with their more free-form approach. Rockstar continue with RDR2, Cdproject with their Cyberpunk. However, Bethesda that used to be king stumbled with FO76 and Starfield. I'd love to hear your updated video about open map design and maybe touch why Starfield failed.
@@CraigPerko they did release a survival mode in 2020... not much since then. but will probably in 2024 release their big chapter 2 update with an underground voxel world and a bunch of new stuff. they also said chapter 2 will be the official release and take them out of early access
I actually developing a game where player builds machinery out of programmable tetrahedrons with soft body physics. I planned to include some basic blueprints for parts and machinery that have purpose to build something, automate something, supply something, generate something. I do plan to add purpose for this game like factorio or minecraft does, but I also want mech battles.
Problem with this kind of games is they are not games, they are simulators and players are not accepting that fact. I have a simulator called Stage of Light. Some people are really into it, they spend 50+ hours with it. But some other people refund it within an hour. The description of the game is very clear. People know what they are going to buy. As there are other people who can spend many hours in the game and not complain about any issues, I don't know what else I can change. It's also very heartbreaking to not receive any reviews from players who spend 50-100 hours in the game.
Whether you call it a simulator or a game, people aren't buying them and aren't playing them much in comparison to the nearly identical games - sorry, simulators - that have a low-structure play method instead of no play method. Such as Kerbal.
It's like playing survival, automation, city builder, or RTS games with infinite resource cheats. You need to be able to run out of resources. If you can't run out of resources, you can't think of ways to spend those resources more efficiently. You can't strategize.
Yeah, it's important to have the ability to have constraints, even if you do sometimes play without them. The existence of even theoretical constraints drives both the players and the devs. Playing 100% constraint-free just... isn't compelling.
It's a really neat, interesting sub-genre, but I think a big issue with it is the amount of development that goes into setting up the 'bones' or the systems, then also having to design a game on top of that. Even then, I feel like the potential "major genres" it can fit in are rather limited-maybe some open-world survival craft or, well, open-world RPG-with the former having its own hurdles that may be equally as time-consuming as the setup for the building system, if not more so.
Well, the reason that Kerbal, Space Engineers, and Stormworks are kings of the genre is because they do have Something To Do but they do it without being overstructured linear experiences.
Or zelda Tear of the kingdom 😂 You should see what people did with it, top gaming plays channel collect creation, they made a mech, they made fishery, rocket, gimbal flying machine, combat drones, car, buggy, boat, etc... 🎉
@@CraigPerko I see, you have to collect the part scattered around the world and increase battery time, and there is a limit of number of parts to build to not fry the console. That's your argument though, progression is free-form too, but that's what go to your main complaint, it's a game lol. It's like botw, there is no order and strict gating, everything is available of you to go collect them, that makes an incitive to make better tools to access rare tool in dangerous part. Also the game is definitely not hard, building stuff is OP, it's frictionless if you dedicate yourself to it, other elements basically turned into toy to test your building, so much player had to create a category called war crime for the way too inventive automated weapon. I'm not arguing, I ask to better know for eventual projects, to catch a broad range. I was just needing by giving top many details lol
@@NeoShameMan It sounds like it is at least in the same ballpark. My favorites have things to do, but they're nebulous and rather free-form, not a strict progression.
Starfield is flawed game with many mechanics. However the Lego-like spaceship customization is easily the best part of it. But the common complaint people have is all of that are meaningless. What's the point of recreating Millennium Falcon, Rocinante, space chicken if you cannot actually travel with it? Fuel doesn't matter, brig/med bay is useless, etc.
Well, as was quickly discovered, there is ONE thing you can do with the ship building; enemy AI can only aim at the center of your ship, so making a ship with an empty center area (such as a ship shaped like a giant wireframe cube) makes you nearly unkillable. I wouldn't say that this really helps its case, though.
Have you thought about making your own game instead? Like, you seem to have an idea of what the game should be and you seem to know how to make games (at least to some degree). So why not try it?
Хобби
I don’t think it needs a game, I think it needs an ‘export’ button that allows these assets to be transferred to a super-workshop that could be used cross entity. Then game builders could use this to import workshop assets into their game.
Have you tried trailmakers, it’s a simpler building game but it is pretty fun
How about From the Depths?
I would argue that counts too.
It's definitely in the genre, but if you compare the usability to these new games, it really hammers home where the genre could go.
OOT. I came to your channel because of Open Map design video featuring Fallout 4. 7 years have passed since. FromSoft came with their own take with Elden Ring. Nintendo came with BOTW, with their more free-form approach. Rockstar continue with RDR2, Cdproject with their Cyberpunk. However, Bethesda that used to be king stumbled with FO76 and Starfield. I'd love to hear your updated video about open map design and maybe touch why Starfield failed.
I haven't played Starfield. The thought of trying made me very sleepy.
the game you're talking about is Scrap Mechanic?
For some reason I bounced off Scrap Mechanic, but it was quite a while ago. It's presumably advanced in the 8 years since. ... Still in early access.
@@CraigPerko they did release a survival mode in 2020... not much since then. but will probably in 2024 release their big chapter 2 update with an underground voxel world and a bunch of new stuff. they also said chapter 2 will be the official release and take them out of early access
@@forebildenHmm! Well, it's certainly worth a revisit.
Does Astronimo count? It's not quite as freeform and 2D, but it scratches the itch for me.
Oh! Now that's one I haven't seen!
I actually developing a game where player builds machinery out of programmable tetrahedrons with soft body physics. I planned to include some basic blueprints for parts and machinery that have purpose to build something, automate something, supply something, generate something. I do plan to add purpose for this game like factorio or minecraft does, but I also want mech battles.
Tetrahedrons, hm? That sounds interesting!
@@CraigPerkoI saw papers on FEM physics (tho I still probably gonna use PhysX), currently tweaking blueprint saving format.
Its just every time I saw some demo with great physics, I always thought of some playground
Problem with this kind of games is they are not games, they are simulators and players are not accepting that fact. I have a simulator called Stage of Light. Some people are really into it, they spend 50+ hours with it. But some other people refund it within an hour. The description of the game is very clear. People know what they are going to buy. As there are other people who can spend many hours in the game and not complain about any issues, I don't know what else I can change. It's also very heartbreaking to not receive any reviews from players who spend 50-100 hours in the game.
Whether you call it a simulator or a game, people aren't buying them and aren't playing them much in comparison to the nearly identical games - sorry, simulators - that have a low-structure play method instead of no play method. Such as Kerbal.
It's like playing survival, automation, city builder, or RTS games with infinite resource cheats. You need to be able to run out of resources. If you can't run out of resources, you can't think of ways to spend those resources more efficiently. You can't strategize.
Yeah, it's important to have the ability to have constraints, even if you do sometimes play without them. The existence of even theoretical constraints drives both the players and the devs. Playing 100% constraint-free just... isn't compelling.
It's a really neat, interesting sub-genre, but I think a big issue with it is the amount of development that goes into setting up the 'bones' or the systems, then also having to design a game on top of that. Even then, I feel like the potential "major genres" it can fit in are rather limited-maybe some open-world survival craft or, well, open-world RPG-with the former having its own hurdles that may be equally as time-consuming as the setup for the building system, if not more so.
Well, the reason that Kerbal, Space Engineers, and Stormworks are kings of the genre is because they do have Something To Do but they do it without being overstructured linear experiences.
I just downloaded Mars First Logistics and it's very fun
Oh, I mistook it for a different game! I'll try it!
Or zelda Tear of the kingdom 😂
You should see what people did with it, top gaming plays channel collect creation, they made a mech, they made fishery, rocket, gimbal flying machine, combat drones, car, buggy, boat, etc... 🎉
It's a connected idea. Pushing to be better at the constraints. I think Zelda might not be freeform enough for me, but either way, it's not on the PC.
@@CraigPerko what do you mean exactly by not free-form enough, ie which parameters and constraints?
@@NeoShameMan I mean, clearly I haven't played it, but it sounds like it's pretty gated by the game progression.
@@CraigPerko I see, you have to collect the part scattered around the world and increase battery time, and there is a limit of number of parts to build to not fry the console.
That's your argument though, progression is free-form too, but that's what go to your main complaint, it's a game lol.
It's like botw, there is no order and strict gating, everything is available of you to go collect them, that makes an incitive to make better tools to access rare tool in dangerous part.
Also the game is definitely not hard, building stuff is OP, it's frictionless if you dedicate yourself to it, other elements basically turned into toy to test your building, so much player had to create a category called war crime for the way too inventive automated weapon.
I'm not arguing, I ask to better know for eventual projects, to catch a broad range. I was just needing by giving top many details lol
@@NeoShameMan It sounds like it is at least in the same ballpark. My favorites have things to do, but they're nebulous and rather free-form, not a strict progression.
Starfield is flawed game with many mechanics. However the Lego-like spaceship customization is easily the best part of it. But the common complaint people have is all of that are meaningless. What's the point of recreating Millennium Falcon, Rocinante, space chicken if you cannot actually travel with it? Fuel doesn't matter, brig/med bay is useless, etc.
I think the surge in creating models really only happens if there's stuff to do, stuff to strive for, stuff to overcome.
Well, as was quickly discovered, there is ONE thing you can do with the ship building; enemy AI can only aim at the center of your ship, so making a ship with an empty center area (such as a ship shaped like a giant wireframe cube) makes you nearly unkillable.
I wouldn't say that this really helps its case, though.
@@Pinkhair3d Heehee
armored core 6
I was under the impression it was a pretty stock mech game with good pew pews, not a freeform vehicle building game. I haven't tried it, tho.
@@CraigPerkoThat was my knee jerk answer your question at the very end haha
@@CraigPerkoAlso, It's defenitley not a stock mech game
Have you thought about making your own game instead? Like, you seem to have an idea of what the game should be and you seem to know how to make games (at least to some degree). So why not try it?
I've worked on a few, put out some tiny ones over the years. But I work in green energy for a living, and I'd prefer to do that.
Crossout
That's a combat MMO, right? Hm!
@@CraigPerko I played crossout, and I can defenetly tell that currently monetization there got quite aggresive.
@@Z_Z.t Awww