The advantage DV is that it's everywhere. HDR10+ Is available on Apple TV plus and Amazon but not Netflix. I'd be fine with HDR10+ if Netflix had it. However, I just bought a Samsung S90c because of the picture quality and price.
The main reason I have a Vizio is they're the only brand in the U.S. that has implemented both DV & HDR10+ across virtually all its 4K TV models. TCL & Hisense have some TVs with both in the U.S., but even more in other countries where Vizio isn't available. The other companies listed in this video as using both, Panasonic & Philips, are virtually non-existent in the U.S. market for TVs, though Panasonic's UB820 & UB9000 are the only 4K Blu-ray players currently sold in the U.S. that support both. (The only other current U.S. 4K Blu-ray player with HDR10+ is Panasonic's entry-level U.S. model UB420; it does have cheaper models overseas, but the UB820 & UB9000 are generally the best reviewed 4K Blu-ray players still available.) Meanwhile, Samsung not only ignores DV on TVs, but abandoned the 4K Blu-ray market before it even implemented HDR10+ in its players' firmware; it did eventually, but many of those players were subsequently bricked by a later bad firmware update.
Remember that about 3 years ago, Samsung told us to buy their sets because they were soon going to offer Dolby Vision - it's just a year or two away, they said. Well that timeframe has come and gone, and now Samsung is making noises like they're NEVER going to give us the Dolby Vision they promised us. Sounds like a crooked LIE to me, folks.
Because they don't need it. Even Hisense $250 tvs have DV. It's not about royalty fees. I have compared both side by side. Hdr10+ had better brightness where needed.
Samsung still makes excellent TVs. I don't think most people can tell the difference between the HDR formats or do they care. If u do, yea don't buy it, but Samsung does make excellent displays for a good price (when on sale). Personally I don't own a Samsung as I like other brands for other reasons, such as Sony & LG. But Samsungs QD-OLED TVs are amazing, and Samsung does have one of the best mini led Tvs the QN90B
I defected from Samsung after owning one of their LED tvs for almost five years once I realised they don’t support Dolby Vision. Both my LED and OLED displays support Dolby Vision, HDR10+ and HLG. All bases covered! 😊
I had two Samsung TVs. In my opinion Samsung dominates because they sell their TVs cheaper. But the money you save isn't worth it because the TVs OSs are slow, they fight tooth and nail to not conform to standards and want to create their own and their quality record is spotty.
@@MovieUniversity Heard all the scary stories about Tizen all last year. I was pleasantly surprised when I got S95C and the 2023 version is way smoother. I’m enjoying it! S95C Tizen seems just as good as all my other TVs OSs
Don't get me wrong. I love HDR10, HDR10+ and Dolby Vision. I do feel Dolby Vision is overrated though in my opinion. If you Have a high end quality display most people can't tell the difference
PREACH!!!! Sadly most high end TVs still can’t properly display DV and Samsungs TVs basically look the exact same in PQ despite no DV Until consumers see a true real world gap in performance no one really cares (other than to check a box)
HDR10+ goes up to 16bits, not 10, this is an old paper. It is also resolution agnostic which means it could go beyond 8K if needed while Dolby might need an update.
I'm glad you made this comment, it confirms to me that my audience is smart! HDR10+ Organization claims HDR10+ can go up to 16-bit color in two of their white papers on their site. Those papers were written in 2019 and 2021. However, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any site, person, company etc. that says HDR10+ is hitting 16 bit color. Theoretically, sure. Practically though?
Yes I don't know what is going on with the HDR10+ Organization, they rarely ever boast about their techs, same for their upcoming HDR10+ gaming implementation.
@@MovieUniversity I understand DV can do 12-bit color, but even that is beyond the capability of most current TVs. (Maybe those top-of-the-line Samsungs are close.) I'm not aware of DV having any resolution restrictions; I could be wrong, but then I'm not sure 8K will ever be more than a niche resolution for massive TVs & projectors. (Without HDR & WCG, IMO even 4K runs into a law of diminishing returns compared to 1080p.)
@@MovieUniversity16 bit color would be great if it was meant for the consumer. If anything, it was for the content creator who has always used 16 bit TIFF files. All HDR(10)+ encodes will remain 10 bit. 16 bit gamma equals 12 bit PQ (Perceptual Quantization) 10,000 nits when referencing the Barten Ramp. The PQ Curve stops at 10,000 nits. Dolby Vision bit depth is12 and its encode is 12 bit bit depth.
I’ve got the Samsung QN90B and more recently the LG G2 and both are great sets. Your not missing out on anything with no Dolby Vision and now with Apple fully embracing HDR10+ on all titles carrying Dolby Vision I don’t see Samsung adding it anytime soon
Agreed. As stated in the video, I don't think anybody will knock Samsung on the hardware, but DV content is much more prolific and there was no need for this format war to begin with if Samsung hadn't been stubborn in the beginning. I currently have a Sony and thinking my next TV might be a LG.
I've heard that dynamic metadata is less important for top PQ on higher-end sets than lesser models, probably because the panels themselves have better contrast & color gamut. That said, Samsung has the broadest model range of any TV manufacturer; shunning DV may prove increasingly problematic for Samsung at lower price points.
@Lozin I’ve got TVs with DV and S95C without it I literally can’t tell any difference in PQ other than the S95C is WAY WAY BETTER than the others Absolute stud
Should Samsung change their mind, and with Dolby Vision being a software implementation, would it be possible to upgrade existing Samsung TVs to support Dolby Vision?
DV is not a hardware but a software thing, so yes, they could easily "fix" this non-issue with an update. However, don't listen to folks telling you that you absolutely need DV. Trust your own eyes and what you see.
I have a 75" Samsung NU7100 from 2018 right now as my main TV and like it very much but definitely will look at jumping ship probably back to LG for my next TV when the time comes just because of the lack of support for Dolby Vision on Samsung.
I do have a Dolby vision tv... LG BX Oled. I keep thinking it gives you better colors then HDR10... even tho the tv isn't 1000 nits. Plus I noticed you can see more details in dv compared to HDR10
@Movie University ya... I thought dolby gives you better colors then normal HDR10... not talking about + and seeing more details that's what I'm wondering about. Not hdr10 plus.
HDR gives better contrast which in turn does provide some better colors. However, TVs with a wide color gamut actually provide better colors. Checkout the video linked in the description where I have a guy at Sony explain the difference between the two.
@@MovieUniversity HDR & WCG are technically two separate ways to improve PQ, but generally WCG is implemented within the four current HDR formats -- HLG, HDR10, HDR10+ & DV. IMO the main reason more TVs need all of them is it's unlikely any one of them will totally vanquish the others, though arguably HDR10+ is on life support as Samsung is its only remaining major supporter that doesn't also support DV. (It lost its biggest major studio supporter when Disney bought 20th Century Fox.)
I'm in search for my first OLED TV and so far I'm between the LG C3 65' and Samsung S90C 65', everyone says that the S90C is the better tv regarding colors and brightness even though it doesn't support the DV format. Thoughts on that? Thanks!
Honestly, I'd steer clear of Samsung. I know some people love them, and they always rate well for their hardware. But myself and many folks I've spoken with over the years have the same horror story. The build quality is subpar on them and because they don't want to pay licence fees if at all possible, you won't get Dolby Vision HDR.
@@MovieUniversity Thanks for the reply, I'm leaning more to LG C3, the build quality is a big factor. My only concern is if the C3 will be bright enough when watching movies.
Also a question... why is fast f9 movie not in atmos or vision in HBO max.. but yet apple tv has it in those formats... also noticed disney plus and apple tv app have more dv and atmos content. Why is this?
Without interviewing someone from those companies, I couldn't give you a great answer. I can only surmise that it probably has something to do with licensing from the studios to the streaming platforms. However, this is a good question and I will pass it along to my Dolby contact to ask.
It's not just the studios & streaming providers; it's also the providers' apps, the devices they run on (such as smart TVs & standalone boxes), and the OS-like software those devices' apps run on (proprietary, Roku, Android/Google TV, etc.) Even with the same studio & streaming provider, DV/HDR10+ & Atmos support varies by streaming device based on app, device and/or device OS support -- even if your TV supports both DV & HDR10+ (like my Vizio). Also, the ways your TV, AVR/soundbar, and other devices are connected to each other & configured may affect their DV, HDR10+ and/or Atmos support.
@Richelle Brittain odd. Cause I can get atmos and vision on my Oled... but the fast f9 one that came out not to long ago is not in dv and atmos on HBO MAX If I look on apple tv app it is... even space jam new legacy is in vision and atmos on hbo max
I don’t like Samsung tv but I like the philosophy hdr10+ is a better standard because is open and it has same dynamic metadata as Dolby vision. Unfortunately cinema lobbys use Dolby crap
lobbyist are the cause of this? The fact that Dolby Vision was introduced 3 years before HDR10+ has nothing to do with it? Or the fact that Samsung has a history of not wanting to work with the rest of the industry has nothing to do with it? Since HDR10+ is free and DV requires a license and since companies are in the business of making money and not losing it for no reason, ask yourself why they continue to prefer DV or HDR10+.
@@MovieUniversity It's common knowledge that the DV license is not that expensive. It would add only about 3 to 4 USD per unit. There's certainly more to it than cost.
@@MrBritishComedySamsung has a history of asking for access to source files, only to later back out of the deal. Then a year later they are releasing there on version based on the information provided. Dolby Vision and HDR10+ similarity is only in name when it comes to "Dynamic Metadata".
dolby vision warm colours has a strange orange brightness or tint that is difficult toget use to - prefer cool colours [hdr10+] over warm brightness any day
I hate that tv companies do this. Im considering LG because of this but for some reason LG doesnt offer the ESPN app so i cant watch UFC fights. Which one has it all? Sony?
I do not know of any TV that can display the Dolby Visions massive color range I think it is near 60+ billion where as the HDR10+ is just over a billion. Also to this point many of the Dolby Vision TV shows look very un natural now is that a machine issue or the Dolby issue. If there are any TVs that can come close to the color range I am going guess that hardware would be produced by Samsung.
@@Sabumnim666 It's Perceptual Quantization (Electrio Optical Transfer Function) it is a absolute curve of luminance values. Left to right, 0 meaning the absence of light and 10,000 nits being the brightest white. Dolby researched and developed it, with the HVS(Human Visual System) science to get close to what we are capable. The PQ EOTF, compared to gamma which has always been the EOTF used for SDR is not absolute, currently there several approaches. 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 and BT.1886, 2.2, 2.4, and BT.1886 being the most common and recommended gamma curves. The film industry and Dolby, because displays today are still gamma based, recommends 2.2 gamma curve on consumer to color grading monitors. I believe it is great that the PQ curve is absolute, and there are no requirements on content creators to use 4000 nits and above. The curve itself reveals detail that had previously been clipped. Colors that could not be represented in theaters or home, like Ferrari Red or Coca-Cola Red. It's gave way for new color science, and Dolby absolute color difference or color space ICtCp 11 bit which is for content that has been encoded in Dolby Vision. There's more, but I have to get some rest.
I love Samsung displays, but until Samsung caves and begins to offer DolbyVision on their sets, I will not be purchasing any of them. I am a physical media collector with over 1k titles in my library. The majority have DolbyVision encoding on them. Why would I want to give that up for a lesser quality codec? You make no sense Sammy. You are shooting yourself in the foot to save $3... On a $4,000 TV. 😒 Genius.
Samsung will never be in my household due to 3 main key factors. 1, processing for low bit content is weak, 2 no D.V which is the best way to get better shadow and black details, & 3 is pricing Samsung has the audacity to not offer all formats across the board yet and companies like Hisense, TCL ECT are slowly whipping them out of the top spot! 🤷🏽♂️
@@frankreynolds9930 you're right. it's one of the highest selling because it's one of the cheapest brands (price wise) when compared to the competition. you are also correct in that samsung tv's are highly rated. where the info starts getting dodgy is that while samsung tvs have great hardware they can't decode dolby vision making the hardware point moot if content is streamed in DV. It's like when the electric vehicle craze started in the us. reviewers praised the vehicles for a variety of reason, but the reality was that there were too few charging stations in the first decade of EV cars. what's the point of having a flashy ev if you're almost chained to your home town because of the range issue.
The most popular misconception in the TV market today is that having a Dolby Vision logo means your TV is better. Dolby Vision on most TVs today is mainly about marketing rather than picture quality. Picture quality is highly dependent on aspects like FALD (on LCDs), wide colour gamut, REC-2020 and DCI-P3 capability, contrast, blooming, and HDR brightness. Most budget and midrange TVs are mediocre in these aspects and Dolby Vision logo does absolutely nothing other than make owners think they're have a good device. If you have a proper TV (mostly expensive TVs like Sony X95K) and compare DV to HDR 10+, you're unlikely to notice any difference in picture quality. (Many reviewers have done this). You don't need Dolby Vision on your TV to experience great picture. You first need to meet the actual specifications for picture quality.
You're not wrong when you say you do not need Dolby Vision on a TV to experience great picture. Samsung proves this with their televisions and I state as much in this video. However, if your TV cannot properly decode the metadata from the imagery that is encoded in Dolby Vision than having any kind of advanced HDR is moot. Since DV is by far the most popular HDR format you're better off getting a TV with it built in.
@@MovieUniversity almost every TV in the market today supports Dolby Vision, budget or anything other than Samsung TVs. Even if your TV can decode DV, not having the necessary hardware to render picture properly makes the DV support worthless. For budget TV, decoding DV or not doesn't matter because you won't benefit from it in any way other than the feeling that you're watching DV content. In high-end TVs, reviewers have constantly shown with 4k Blu-ray DV/HDR10+ contents that the difference is almost unnoticeable.
DV has been our for 7 years now so yes, a lot of TVs on the market today can playback content in the format. Its easy to forget that this has been a journey that didn't happen over night. Dolby has been far more effective in spreading DV to the masses than Samsung has with HDR10+. Yes, hardware is important like you keep pointing out, but you do need some sort of software to decode HDR of any kind. CRT TVs still have the best blacks on televisions but they cannot playback HDR content. Regarding reviewers comparing the two. Yes, you're right. Many have compared the two. But like you stated, "almost" unnoticeable is enough for many consumers to buy what they think is "the best." DV consistently comes out on top in many comparisons and there is far more content in the format than HDR10+. If seeing what directors intended viewers to see wasn't such a big deal then people wouldn't keep shelling out big bucks for the best.
@@MovieUniversity I agree that people want to see as the "director intended," but we also need to agree that DV support is only a part of the equation. My main argument is that, if you're buying a budget or midrange TV, basic HDR 10 support (not +) is more than enough. Anything else you're just kidding yourself. The good thing is that, whether a TV only supports DV or HDR 10+, they all have the support for basic HDR 10. However, if you're buying a $3000-4000 TV, then you can start investigating how a lack of DV affects your viewing experience.
I agree partially. I think most people just want a “good” TV or “good” speakers or “good” headphones. What good is, is so subjective. I think you’re correct that a large chunk of the worlds propulsion, around 50% just want “good” picture. In that regard HDR10 is sufficient. However, movie enthusiasts, gamers, content creators want (almost demand) better and that’s the portion of the worlds population that will care about the minute differences between the two. (I don’t have statistics to back this up, but from reading a lot of comments all over the internet over the years, talking with people throughout life and interacting with people on my channel in the comment sections and doing my own polls, I have come to this conclusion)
I have made my choice; I won’t buy a TV without Dolby Vision. It should be obvious for anybody that by buying Samsung, buyers will cut themselves off from a huge amount of technically high-quality movies. So don’t be stupid, you can find TVs just as good as Samsung, but with DV and without any compromises. Samsung will avoid DV as long as they have a huge chunk of the TV market. Another point is that HDR is probably not well understood by buyers. Therefore, Samsung can get off with delivering DV-less TVs. The economy made by ignoring DV seems to be very marginal; I think this is just a question of corporate pride.
@@sakkel.7357 You don't have to convince me, you need to convince Samsung. Consumers would be more than willing to pay an extra $3 or $50 for DV. It's Samsung who doesn't want to pay the upfront cost.
@@MovieUniversity not looking for samsung tv with DV, i'd like to have DV software for my pc videoplayer if that's possible to get work on pc. i'd gladly pay ten times that 2-3 dollars.
You guys really expect Samsung to have Dolby Vision who literally created a rival of DoVi? HDR10+ was created by Samsung along with two other companies. Tbh movies in DoVi are less bright and have more contrast and better colours as compared to HDR10+ overall brighter look and somewhat unsaturated colours. HDR10+ improves upon HDR10 but only in brightness. HDR10+ aims to hit 4000 nits and Dolby Vision aims to hit 10000 nits of max brightness but movies in HDR barely even hits the most standard HDR10 brightness of 1000 nits. At this point it’s just matter of personal preference. It’s not one is better than the other.
Samsung is not thinking about there long term customers if they dont work on dolby vision or dolby atmos customers will start falling away from samsung wake up samsung ?
No need for dolby vision. I have seen tvs with dolby vision and in hdr10+ and like hdr10+ better. In most cases turning off dolby vision helps the tvs specially the lower budget tvs.
I think its not Samsung vs Dolby Vision, its rather Static Metadata vs Dynamic Metadata. Samsung offers both in HDR10 and HDR10+ for free. So it's a win win for every one, the content providers and the consumers. HDR10+ is free and requires less bandwidth and hardware specs than Dolby Vision. Excellent for streaming services. Besides, I personally don't think that we can without specialised equipment notice any difference between 10 bit HDR (HDR10+) and 12 bit HDR (Dolby Vision), on the same hardware.
As mentioned in the video, HDR10+ might be free, but it was late coming to market and because of that Dolby Vision has become a selling point for companies and a purchasing priority for consumers. Additionally, much more content is color graded in Dolby Vision. It doesn't matter so much which format is better but which version a product is being released in. Most content is not color graded in both, but rather one or the other. And currently DV is the reining champ with the amount of HDR content on the market.
@@MovieUniversity 👍 Agreed. I’m just hoping that since Samsung is consistently the top TV seller in the world, which means that a good chunk of consumers TVs don’t support Dolby Vision, that the content providers consider more the free HDR10+.
@@user-mhmd-ibrhm It won’t happen; Dolby Vision has won hands down. With or without DV the price difference is insignificant and there is so much content with DV and so little with HDR10+, that nobody should buy Samsung anymore.
@@jasc4364 If you say so. But as a fact, Samsung is consistently the top selling TV brand in the world , so there are considerable number of TVs in the world that don’t support Dolby Vision and support only the free HDR10+. Most TV buyers are still preferring Samsung regardless.
Dolby Vision won hands down. With or without DV the price difference is insignificant and there is so much content with DV and so little with HDR10+, that nobody should buy Samsung anymore.
Having seen Dolby Vision and HDR10 side by side on several TVs, I have to say that - to my surprise - more often than not, HDR10 looks noticeably better than Dolby Vision. DV is overhyped.
@MovieUniversity That's very much TV dependant. All the higher end OLED TVs have their own processing to get the most out of each and every image, and they don't need DV to make a scene pop more. In fact, many times, the addition of DV on such TVs results in images that are overly and unnaturally bright in comparison.
@@MrBritishComedy HDR10 is static HDR which means that the HDR is set at one tone/gradation/output (pick your buzzword). Where has HDR10+ and DV are dynamic, meaning they change scene by scene or frame by frame. Additionally, processing has nothing to do with how which HDR is displayed on screen. Processing power and abilities will make DV on one TV look better on another TV based on the brands internal guts, but processing has nothing to do with HDR format decoding. I have a video on this topic on this channel where a Sony specialist explains how HDR and WCG are displayed. I encourage you to watch it.
@MovieUniversity I am aware of how DV, HDR10, and HDR10+ work, but at the end of the day, it's the image displayed that counts, and I'm telling you, that to my eyes, on the same DV capable flsgship OLED TVs, HDR10, more often than not, looks more realistic and pleasing to the eye. I don't need anyone to explain to me that I'm supposed to prefer one thing because the technology is superior when what I see with my own eyes tells a different story.
As stated in the video, the hardware exists on Samsung TVs. In fact Samsung TVs exceed LG and Sony TVs in some regard. However, without the software to decode DV content, you'll never get the max out of a Samsung TV.
@@MovieUniversity still for Samsung since most TVs still can’t display DV correctly anyway and 99.99999999% of content watched on Samsung TVs looks the same as their DV counterparts It would take being able to show a huge gap in real performance for people to start to drop Sam
The advantage DV is that it's everywhere. HDR10+ Is available on Apple TV plus and Amazon but not Netflix. I'd be fine with HDR10+ if Netflix had it. However, I just bought a Samsung S90c because of the picture quality and price.
netflix is talking about adopting HDR10+ its coming, its inevitable. I also have a s90c its the best TV in the 2.5k price range its not even close.
As long as Samsung ignores Dolby Vision, I ignore Samsung TV. Simple.
Lol, I like it.
I had two Samsung TVs and I was not pleased with them.
The main reason I have a Vizio is they're the only brand in the U.S. that has implemented both DV & HDR10+ across virtually all its 4K TV models. TCL & Hisense have some TVs with both in the U.S., but even more in other countries where Vizio isn't available. The other companies listed in this video as using both, Panasonic & Philips, are virtually non-existent in the U.S. market for TVs, though Panasonic's UB820 & UB9000 are the only 4K Blu-ray players currently sold in the U.S. that support both. (The only other current U.S. 4K Blu-ray player with HDR10+ is Panasonic's entry-level U.S. model UB420; it does have cheaper models overseas, but the UB820 & UB9000 are generally the best reviewed 4K Blu-ray players still available.) Meanwhile, Samsung not only ignores DV on TVs, but abandoned the 4K Blu-ray market before it even implemented HDR10+ in its players' firmware; it did eventually, but many of those players were subsequently bricked by a later bad firmware update.
@@MovieUniversity Lol except Samsung S95B blows away any lg oled tv
Not simple. You won’t be ignoring Samsung. Watch.
@@dylnjshua4256 sam what? who?
Remember that about 3 years ago, Samsung told us to buy their sets because they were soon going to offer Dolby Vision - it's just a year or two away, they said. Well that timeframe has come and gone, and now Samsung is making noises like they're NEVER going to give us the Dolby Vision they promised us. Sounds like a crooked LIE to me, folks.
Because they don't need it.
Even Hisense $250 tvs have DV. It's not about royalty fees. I have compared both side by side. Hdr10+ had better brightness where needed.
Wow. That video answered the questions that I had. Definitely going to get a TV with Dolby Vision. Thanks
Glad I could help!
Samsung still makes excellent TVs. I don't think most people can tell the difference between the HDR formats or do they care. If u do, yea don't buy it, but Samsung does make excellent displays for a good price (when on sale). Personally I don't own a Samsung as I like other brands for other reasons, such as Sony & LG. But Samsungs QD-OLED TVs are amazing, and Samsung does have one of the best mini led Tvs the QN90B
I defected from Samsung after owning one of their LED tvs for almost five years once I realised they don’t support Dolby Vision. Both my LED and OLED displays support Dolby Vision, HDR10+ and HLG. All bases covered! 😊
I had two Samsung TVs. In my opinion Samsung dominates because they sell their TVs cheaper. But the money you save isn't worth it because the TVs OSs are slow, they fight tooth and nail to not conform to standards and want to create their own and their quality record is spotty.
@@MovieUniversity Heard all the scary stories about Tizen all last year. I was pleasantly surprised when I got S95C and the 2023 version is way smoother. I’m enjoying it!
S95C Tizen seems just as good as all my other TVs OSs
Don't get me wrong. I love HDR10, HDR10+ and Dolby Vision. I do feel Dolby Vision is overrated though in my opinion. If you Have a high end quality display most people can't tell the difference
PREACH!!!! Sadly most high end TVs still can’t properly display DV and Samsungs TVs basically look the exact same in PQ despite no DV
Until consumers see a true real world gap in performance no one really cares (other than to check a box)
HDR10+ goes up to 16bits, not 10, this is an old paper. It is also resolution agnostic which means it could go beyond 8K if needed while Dolby might need an update.
I'm glad you made this comment, it confirms to me that my audience is smart!
HDR10+ Organization claims HDR10+ can go up to 16-bit color in two of their white papers on their site. Those papers were written in 2019 and 2021. However, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any site, person, company etc. that says HDR10+ is hitting 16 bit color. Theoretically, sure. Practically though?
Yes I don't know what is going on with the HDR10+ Organization, they rarely ever boast about their techs, same for their upcoming HDR10+ gaming implementation.
@@MovieUniversity I understand DV can do 12-bit color, but even that is beyond the capability of most current TVs. (Maybe those top-of-the-line Samsungs are close.) I'm not aware of DV having any resolution restrictions; I could be wrong, but then I'm not sure 8K will ever be more than a niche resolution for massive TVs & projectors. (Without HDR & WCG, IMO even 4K runs into a law of diminishing returns compared to 1080p.)
@@MovieUniversity16 bit color would be great if it was meant for the consumer. If anything, it was for the content creator who has always used 16 bit TIFF files. All HDR(10)+ encodes will remain 10 bit.
16 bit gamma equals 12 bit PQ (Perceptual Quantization) 10,000 nits when referencing the Barten Ramp. The PQ Curve stops at 10,000 nits.
Dolby Vision bit depth is12 and its encode is 12 bit bit depth.
I’ve got the Samsung QN90B and more recently the LG G2 and both are great sets. Your not missing out on anything with no Dolby Vision and now with Apple fully embracing HDR10+ on all titles carrying Dolby Vision I don’t see Samsung adding it anytime soon
Agreed.
As stated in the video, I don't think anybody will knock Samsung on the hardware, but DV content is much more prolific and there was no need for this format war to begin with if Samsung hadn't been stubborn in the beginning.
I currently have a Sony and thinking my next TV might be a LG.
I've heard that dynamic metadata is less important for top PQ on higher-end sets than lesser models, probably because the panels themselves have better contrast & color gamut. That said, Samsung has the broadest model range of any TV manufacturer; shunning DV may prove increasingly problematic for Samsung at lower price points.
@Lozin I’ve got TVs with DV and S95C without it
I literally can’t tell any difference in PQ other than the S95C is WAY WAY BETTER than the others
Absolute stud
Should Samsung change their mind, and with Dolby Vision being a software implementation, would it be possible to upgrade existing Samsung TVs to support Dolby Vision?
DV is not a hardware but a software thing, so yes, they could easily "fix" this non-issue with an update. However, don't listen to folks telling you that you absolutely need DV. Trust your own eyes and what you see.
@@MrBritishComedyfacts!👌
I like how Samsung is rich when it comes to everything, but too cheap to get Dolby Vision.
Seriously!!!
@@MovieUniversity I seriously do not think anyone in a blind test could pick the difference unless you had them side by side.
I have a 75" Samsung NU7100 from 2018 right now as my main TV and like it very much but definitely will look at jumping ship probably back to LG for my next TV when the time comes just because of the lack of support for Dolby Vision on Samsung.
Just did this. Bought a LG OLED and will never go back to Samsung.
I do have a Dolby vision tv... LG BX Oled. I keep thinking it gives you better colors then HDR10... even tho the tv isn't 1000 nits. Plus I noticed you can see more details in dv compared to HDR10
Not to insult your intelligence, you do know there is a difference between HDR10 and HDR10+ right?
@Movie University ya... I thought dolby gives you better colors then normal HDR10... not talking about + and seeing more details that's what I'm wondering about. Not hdr10 plus.
HDR gives better contrast which in turn does provide some better colors. However, TVs with a wide color gamut actually provide better colors. Checkout the video linked in the description where I have a guy at Sony explain the difference between the two.
@@MovieUniversity HDR & WCG are technically two separate ways to improve PQ, but generally WCG is implemented within the four current HDR formats -- HLG, HDR10, HDR10+ & DV. IMO the main reason more TVs need all of them is it's unlikely any one of them will totally vanquish the others, though arguably HDR10+ is on life support as Samsung is its only remaining major supporter that doesn't also support DV. (It lost its biggest major studio supporter when Disney bought 20th Century Fox.)
I know. If you'd watch the video I'm talking about, it's explained in great detail from a guy at Sony.
I'm in search for my first OLED TV and so far I'm between the LG C3 65' and Samsung S90C 65', everyone says that the S90C is the better tv regarding colors and brightness even though it doesn't support the DV format.
Thoughts on that?
Thanks!
Honestly, I'd steer clear of Samsung. I know some people love them, and they always rate well for their hardware. But myself and many folks I've spoken with over the years have the same horror story. The build quality is subpar on them and because they don't want to pay licence fees if at all possible, you won't get Dolby Vision HDR.
@@MovieUniversity Thanks for the reply, I'm leaning more to LG C3, the build quality is a big factor. My only concern is if the C3 will be bright enough when watching movies.
@@SaiyanJin85 C3 is an excellent choice. I'd buy it.
@@MovieUniversity Thanks!
I think the Sony A95L is the one for that sweet spot, colors of Samsung plus Dolby Vision, just waiting for a sale. LG is brighter though I think.
I think HDR is called “signal plus” under the settings
Also a question... why is fast f9 movie not in atmos or vision in HBO max.. but yet apple tv has it in those formats... also noticed disney plus and apple tv app have more dv and atmos content. Why is this?
Without interviewing someone from those companies, I couldn't give you a great answer. I can only surmise that it probably has something to do with licensing from the studios to the streaming platforms.
However, this is a good question and I will pass it along to my Dolby contact to ask.
It's not just the studios & streaming providers; it's also the providers' apps, the devices they run on (such as smart TVs & standalone boxes), and the OS-like software those devices' apps run on (proprietary, Roku, Android/Google TV, etc.) Even with the same studio & streaming provider, DV/HDR10+ & Atmos support varies by streaming device based on app, device and/or device OS support -- even if your TV supports both DV & HDR10+ (like my Vizio). Also, the ways your TV, AVR/soundbar, and other devices are connected to each other & configured may affect their DV, HDR10+ and/or Atmos support.
@Richelle Brittain odd. Cause I can get atmos and vision on my Oled... but the fast f9 one that came out not to long ago is not in dv and atmos on HBO MAX If I look on apple tv app it is... even space jam new legacy is in vision and atmos on hbo max
I don’t like Samsung tv but I like the philosophy hdr10+ is a better standard because is open and it has same dynamic metadata as Dolby vision. Unfortunately cinema lobbys use Dolby crap
lobbyist are the cause of this? The fact that Dolby Vision was introduced 3 years before HDR10+ has nothing to do with it? Or the fact that Samsung has a history of not wanting to work with the rest of the industry has nothing to do with it? Since HDR10+ is free and DV requires a license and since companies are in the business of making money and not losing it for no reason, ask yourself why they continue to prefer DV or HDR10+.
@@MovieUniversity It's common knowledge that the DV license is not that expensive. It would add only about 3 to 4 USD per unit. There's certainly more to it than cost.
@@MrBritishComedySamsung has a history of asking for access to source files, only to later back out of the deal. Then a year later they are releasing there on version based on the information provided.
Dolby Vision and HDR10+ similarity is only in name when it comes to "Dynamic Metadata".
Question, buy the S95b for 1550 euro with no DV or buy the LG C2 for 1700 with DV?
But the LG one. More capability and ability to decode HDR formats.
Not convincing, because the S95B has amazingly rich colours far above those of the LG C2!
dolby vision warm colours has a strange orange brightness or tint that is difficult toget use to - prefer cool colours [hdr10+] over warm brightness any day
I don't like the OS Tizen,but my 95b is the best picture in the house. That's including my LG CX
Great video! Loved it
I think Samsung had the right strategy, unfortunately it did not pay off. Time to allow DV.
I hate that tv companies do this. Im considering LG because of this but for some reason LG doesnt offer the ESPN app so i cant watch UFC fights. Which one has it all? Sony?
Honestly, I've never even thought to look into the apps. I've always used my Apple TV device.
I have a Samsung , Vizio and Hisense TV's in my home. I wanted Dolby Vision so thats when Vizio came to my home. Then Hisense.
I do not know of any TV that can display the Dolby Visions massive color range I think it is near 60+ billion where as the HDR10+ is just over a billion. Also to this point many of the Dolby Vision TV shows look very un natural now is that a machine issue or the Dolby issue. If there are any TVs that can come close to the color range I am going guess that hardware would be produced by Samsung.
You need to read up on color banding and posterization related to the PQ EOTF.
@@TheCrucialQ Can you give me an idea of the PQ EOTF meaning and what is your take on it?
@@Sabumnim666 It's Perceptual Quantization (Electrio Optical Transfer Function) it is a absolute curve of luminance values. Left to right, 0 meaning the absence of light and 10,000 nits being the brightest white. Dolby researched and developed it, with the HVS(Human Visual System) science to get close to what we are capable.
The PQ EOTF, compared to gamma which has always been the EOTF used for SDR is not absolute, currently there several approaches. 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 and BT.1886, 2.2, 2.4, and BT.1886 being the most common and recommended gamma curves. The film industry and Dolby, because displays today are still gamma based, recommends 2.2 gamma curve on consumer to color grading monitors.
I believe it is great that the PQ curve is absolute, and there are no requirements on content creators to use 4000 nits and above. The curve itself reveals detail that had previously been clipped. Colors that could not be represented in theaters or home, like Ferrari Red or Coca-Cola Red.
It's gave way for new color science, and Dolby absolute color difference or color space ICtCp 11 bit which is for content that has been encoded in Dolby Vision.
There's more, but I have to get some rest.
I love Samsung displays, but until Samsung caves and begins to offer DolbyVision on their sets, I will not be purchasing any of them.
I am a physical media collector with over 1k titles in my library. The majority have DolbyVision encoding on them. Why would I want to give that up for a lesser quality codec?
You make no sense Sammy. You are shooting yourself in the foot to save $3... On a $4,000 TV. 😒 Genius.
Samsung will never be in my household due to 3 main key factors. 1, processing for low bit content is weak, 2 no D.V which is the best way to get better shadow and black details, & 3 is pricing Samsung has the audacity to not offer all formats across the board yet and companies like Hisense, TCL ECT are slowly whipping them out of the top spot! 🤷🏽♂️
Number 3 is a great point!
@@MovieUniversity it's just the truth
@movie_av_impulse Samsung already one of the highest tv seller. And samsung qd oled already are recommended by most reviewers.
@@frankreynolds9930 you're right. it's one of the highest selling because it's one of the cheapest brands (price wise) when compared to the competition. you are also correct in that samsung tv's are highly rated. where the info starts getting dodgy is that while samsung tvs have great hardware they can't decode dolby vision making the hardware point moot if content is streamed in DV. It's like when the electric vehicle craze started in the us. reviewers praised the vehicles for a variety of reason, but the reality was that there were too few charging stations in the first decade of EV cars. what's the point of having a flashy ev if you're almost chained to your home town because of the range issue.
The most popular misconception in the TV market today is that having a Dolby Vision logo means your TV is better. Dolby Vision on most TVs today is mainly about marketing rather than picture quality. Picture quality is highly dependent on aspects like FALD (on LCDs), wide colour gamut, REC-2020 and DCI-P3 capability, contrast, blooming, and HDR brightness.
Most budget and midrange TVs are mediocre in these aspects and Dolby Vision logo does absolutely nothing other than make owners think they're have a good device.
If you have a proper TV (mostly expensive TVs like Sony X95K) and compare DV to HDR 10+, you're unlikely to notice any difference in picture quality. (Many reviewers have done this).
You don't need Dolby Vision on your TV to experience great picture. You first need to meet the actual specifications for picture quality.
You're not wrong when you say you do not need Dolby Vision on a TV to experience great picture. Samsung proves this with their televisions and I state as much in this video.
However, if your TV cannot properly decode the metadata from the imagery that is encoded in Dolby Vision than having any kind of advanced HDR is moot. Since DV is by far the most popular HDR format you're better off getting a TV with it built in.
@@MovieUniversity almost every TV in the market today supports Dolby Vision, budget or anything other than Samsung TVs. Even if your TV can decode DV, not having the necessary hardware to render picture properly makes the DV support worthless.
For budget TV, decoding DV or not doesn't matter because you won't benefit from it in any way other than the feeling that you're watching DV content. In high-end TVs, reviewers have constantly shown with 4k Blu-ray DV/HDR10+ contents that the difference is almost unnoticeable.
DV has been our for 7 years now so yes, a lot of TVs on the market today can playback content in the format. Its easy to forget that this has been a journey that didn't happen over night. Dolby has been far more effective in spreading DV to the masses than Samsung has with HDR10+. Yes, hardware is important like you keep pointing out, but you do need some sort of software to decode HDR of any kind. CRT TVs still have the best blacks on televisions but they cannot playback HDR content.
Regarding reviewers comparing the two. Yes, you're right. Many have compared the two. But like you stated, "almost" unnoticeable is enough for many consumers to buy what they think is "the best." DV consistently comes out on top in many comparisons and there is far more content in the format than HDR10+. If seeing what directors intended viewers to see wasn't such a big deal then people wouldn't keep shelling out big bucks for the best.
@@MovieUniversity I agree that people want to see as the "director intended," but we also need to agree that DV support is only a part of the equation. My main argument is that, if you're buying a budget or midrange TV, basic HDR 10 support (not +) is more than enough. Anything else you're just kidding yourself. The good thing is that, whether a TV only supports DV or HDR 10+, they all have the support for basic HDR 10. However, if you're buying a $3000-4000 TV, then you can start investigating how a lack of DV affects your viewing experience.
I agree partially. I think most people just want a “good” TV or “good” speakers or “good” headphones. What good is, is so subjective. I think you’re correct that a large chunk of the worlds propulsion, around 50% just want “good” picture. In that regard HDR10 is sufficient. However, movie enthusiasts, gamers, content creators want (almost demand) better and that’s the portion of the worlds population that will care about the minute differences between the two.
(I don’t have statistics to back this up, but from reading a lot of comments all over the internet over the years, talking with people throughout life and interacting with people on my channel in the comment sections and doing my own polls, I have come to this conclusion)
I have made my choice; I won’t buy a TV without Dolby Vision. It should be obvious for anybody that by buying Samsung, buyers will cut themselves off from a huge amount of technically high-quality movies. So don’t be stupid, you can find TVs just as good as Samsung, but with DV and without any compromises.
Samsung will avoid DV as long as they have a huge chunk of the TV market. Another point is that HDR is probably not well understood by buyers. Therefore, Samsung can get off with delivering DV-less TVs. The economy made by ignoring DV seems to be very marginal; I think this is just a question of corporate pride.
Always wondered. Now I get answer
I got you fam!
Minor typo on the Fun Fact about Sony ‘purchasing’ LG Display panels. 🧐
-_-
DOLBY VISION IS VERY GREAT DAMSUNG SHOULD INCORPORATE IT IN ITS TV
Does Samsung Show DV Content in SDR or what happens when you wanna watch DV Content from like Disney or Apple?
The television will "downgrade" it to HDR10.
if dolby vision is software why couldn't it be added to pc's with bright projectors?
Because companies don’t want to pay Dolby the fee to license DV software.
@@MovieUniversity but if it is doable and people would pay it themself. As i understand it would only cost 2-3 dollars per tv for companies.
@@sakkel.7357 You don't have to convince me, you need to convince Samsung. Consumers would be more than willing to pay an extra $3 or $50 for DV. It's Samsung who doesn't want to pay the upfront cost.
@@MovieUniversity not looking for samsung tv with DV, i'd like to have DV software for my pc videoplayer if that's possible to get work on pc. i'd gladly pay ten times that 2-3 dollars.
@@sakkel.7357 Same issues. If your graphics card or monitor company don't want to pay the upfront cost to license the software then you're SOL.
If I plan to use AppleTV 4K with Samsung OLED, does it support Dolby Vision?
It will not.
You guys really expect Samsung to have Dolby Vision who literally created a rival of DoVi? HDR10+ was created by Samsung along with two other companies. Tbh movies in DoVi are less bright and have more contrast and better colours as compared to HDR10+ overall brighter look and somewhat unsaturated colours. HDR10+ improves upon HDR10 but only in brightness. HDR10+ aims to hit 4000 nits and Dolby Vision aims to hit 10000 nits of max brightness but movies in HDR barely even hits the most standard HDR10 brightness of 1000 nits. At this point it’s just matter of personal preference. It’s not one is better than the other.
Appreciate bro
Any time!
Samsung is not thinking about there long term customers if they dont work on dolby vision or dolby atmos customers will start falling away from samsung wake up samsung ?
No need for dolby vision. I have seen tvs with dolby vision and in hdr10+ and like hdr10+ better. In most cases turning off dolby vision helps the tvs specially the lower budget tvs.
Thank you.
HDR10+ is a rival and just as good
I think its not Samsung vs Dolby Vision, its rather Static Metadata vs Dynamic Metadata.
Samsung offers both in HDR10 and HDR10+ for free. So it's a win win for every one, the content providers and the consumers.
HDR10+ is free and requires less bandwidth and hardware specs than Dolby Vision. Excellent for streaming services.
Besides, I personally don't think that we can without specialised equipment notice any difference between 10 bit HDR (HDR10+) and 12 bit HDR (Dolby Vision), on the same hardware.
As mentioned in the video, HDR10+ might be free, but it was late coming to market and because of that Dolby Vision has become a selling point for companies and a purchasing priority for consumers. Additionally, much more content is color graded in Dolby Vision. It doesn't matter so much which format is better but which version a product is being released in. Most content is not color graded in both, but rather one or the other. And currently DV is the reining champ with the amount of HDR content on the market.
@@MovieUniversity
👍 Agreed.
I’m just hoping that since Samsung is consistently the top TV seller in the world, which means that a good chunk of consumers TVs don’t support Dolby Vision, that the content providers consider more the free HDR10+.
@@user-mhmd-ibrhm
It won’t happen; Dolby Vision has won hands down. With or without DV the price difference is insignificant and there is so much content with DV and so little with HDR10+, that nobody should buy Samsung anymore.
@@jasc4364
If you say so.
But as a fact, Samsung is consistently the top selling TV brand in the world , so there are considerable number of TVs in the world that don’t support Dolby Vision and support only the free HDR10+.
Most TV buyers are still preferring Samsung regardless.
Dolby Vision won hands down. With or without DV the price difference is insignificant and there is so much content with DV and so little with HDR10+, that nobody should buy Samsung anymore.
And yet they released the QD-OLED S95B...
Not sure if this comment is in support or against Samsung.
Having seen Dolby Vision and HDR10 side by side on several TVs, I have to say that - to my surprise - more often than not, HDR10 looks noticeably better than Dolby Vision. DV is overhyped.
I could be convinced to debate if HDR10+ was equal to DV. But there is no way that HDR10 regular is close to DV.
@MovieUniversity That's very much TV dependant. All the higher end OLED TVs have their own processing to get the most out of each and every image, and they don't need DV to make a scene pop more. In fact, many times, the addition of DV on such TVs results in images that are overly and unnaturally bright in comparison.
@@MrBritishComedy HDR10 is static HDR which means that the HDR is set at one tone/gradation/output (pick your buzzword). Where has HDR10+ and DV are dynamic, meaning they change scene by scene or frame by frame.
Additionally, processing has nothing to do with how which HDR is displayed on screen. Processing power and abilities will make DV on one TV look better on another TV based on the brands internal guts, but processing has nothing to do with HDR format decoding.
I have a video on this topic on this channel where a Sony specialist explains how HDR and WCG are displayed. I encourage you to watch it.
@MovieUniversity I am aware of how DV, HDR10, and HDR10+ work, but at the end of the day, it's the image displayed that counts, and I'm telling you, that to my eyes, on the same DV capable flsgship OLED TVs, HDR10, more often than not, looks more realistic and pleasing to the eye. I don't need anyone to explain to me that I'm supposed to prefer one thing because the technology is superior when what I see with my own eyes tells a different story.
Also, on the topic: ruclips.net/video/wvfOLqZpB94/видео.htmlsi=HJo4jWvWQD28Ijrc
Also their smartphones
Samsung OLEDs are so good they don't even need Dolby Vision / HDR10+ compressors anymore 📺😯🚀🚀
As stated in the video, the hardware exists on Samsung TVs. In fact Samsung TVs exceed LG and Sony TVs in some regard. However, without the software to decode DV content, you'll never get the max out of a Samsung TV.
It sucks.really like samsung tv,s but aparently our hands are tied. At least most are atmos capable...🙄
soooo are you for or against Samsung TVs?
@@MovieUniversity still for Samsung since most TVs still can’t display DV correctly anyway and 99.99999999% of content watched on Samsung TVs looks the same as their DV counterparts
It would take being able to show a huge gap in real performance for people to start to drop Sam
sumsung might fall like Kodak
That's possible, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon.
⚡👏🏼👏🏼⚡
It is called Greed.
no Dts now...... Dolby vision goodnight