Iliad: Book 2 - The Great Gathering of Armies | Ascend The Great Books Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Book Two of The Iliad
The Great Gathering of Armies
Some of the things we discuss in this week's episode:
The rage of kings is strong-they’re nursed by the gods, their honor comes from Zeus-they’re dear to Zeus, the god who rules the world.
Odysseus (2.226)
14. What happens in the second book of the Iliad?
Having accepted the petition of Thetis, Zeus sends a “murderous dream” to Agamemnon imploring him to muster his army and attack Troy (2.07). It is notable that “Dream” is personified, as is the “Dawn,” as a goddess (2.57), and Rumor, as “Zeus’ crier” (2.109). Agamemnon receives the dream and shares it with his war council (2.63). The high king or chieftain of the Greeks then elects to test his men (2.86) and tells the army Zeus commands them to return to “Argos in disgrace” (2.129). The men rush to the ships to leave (2.174), but Hera sends Athena to intervene (2.183). Athena inspires Odysseus who in turn rouses the men to stay-reminding them of Calchas’ prophecy they would conquer Troy in the tenth year (2.386). Nestor, the oldest of the Achaean war lords, encourages the men to stay as well (2.398), and, notably, Agamemnon only thanks Nestor afterward (2.439). There is then a roll call of the Achaean kings (2.573). The book ends with a similar roll call for the Trojans, which serves to introduce Prince Hector, commander of the Trojans and son of Priam, King of Troy (2.927).
15. What is the relation between Zeus and the kings of men?
Odysseus declares, “The rage of kings is strong, they’re nursed by the gods, their honor comes from Zeus-they’re dear to Zeus, the god who rules the world” (2.226). Zeus’ governance of the world is, at least in part, mediated through the kings of men. Homer provides such an example by Zeus working his will by influencing the actions of Agamemnon via the dream (2.07). The episode sheds further light on the relation between the will of Zeus and the free will of man. Note also, however, that the dream is a deceit. The gods are not united and Troy is not prime to be destroyed (2.16). The Dream also takes on the voice of Nestor (2.24). It is common for the gods to present their messages through faces familiar to the recipient. In response to the dream, Agamemnon tests his men and tells them Zeus has “plotted brutal treachery” and now commands they return home (2.134). The levels of irony and of deceit are notable. As Zeus lied to Agamemnon, Agamemnon now lies to his men. Moreover, Agamemnon’s lie to his men about Zeus’ treachery is more true than Agamemnon realizes.
16. Why is the dream repeated three times?
It is a common characteristic for messages to repeated in full within the Homeric epics. Outside the benefit this would have for a bard, it also permits Homer a subtle literary device. Though the reader may be tempted to a certain inattention by all the repetition, Homer often has retellings change, add, or omit something. These small changes can have significant plot effects. A moderate example of this exercise can be seen in the fact that Zeus does not state that he pities Agamemnon. Such a statement is a gloss provided by Dream. To the extent such a statement could be true, it is certainly not true in the way Agamemnon believes.
17. Who is Odysseus?
Odysseus, the Achaean who piloted the ship that returned Chryseis to her father in book one, is the king of Ithaca. He is known for his cunning and his rhetoric. It is telling that Athena, the goddess of wisdom, flies first to Odysseus to help unravel the knot Agamemnon has caused by his test (2.196); and more telling that Odysseus “knew the goddess’ voice” (2.211). In the Iliad, the gods will work upon man in various ways, but not all men have the capacity to discern it is the gods at work. It is another facet of the interplay of divine providence and the actions of man. Finally, it is not unremarkable that Odysseus, and not Agamemnon, bears the epithet of “a mastermind like Zeus” (2.197). We may draw a connection here back to Athena, as Athena emerged from the head of Zeus. Given Zeus’ deceit upon Agamemnon, however, we are left to wonder about the true nature of a man who bears such an epithet. Odysseus and his character merit careful observation.
Good stuff, fellas, and best of luck. We launched our group, "The Sons of Basil", in the fall of 2018 and it's been an amazing experience. We are working our way through the Church Fathers now and I echo your sentiment that each prior read (from Homer through where we are now) speaks to and layers upon the others. It's a heckuva "conversation" to join. Prayers of support on your journey from your friends in Nebraska!
Thank you! Would love to see what you guys are working through. Stay in touch - you can keep up to date here has well: patreon.com/greatbooks
Zeus -> Agamemnon -> deceit for the greater good? The nature of power/leadership?
These are great. Keep it up!
Thank you for following us through the Year of Homer!
This is such great quality podcast! Thanks to both of you for all the work that you are doing to help others go along this epic journey!
Thank you!
Just wrapped up Book 2. Thank you for this. Trying to keep up with you guys.
Awesome! Hope you are enjoying it
Wise Odysseus knows Athena who sprung from Zeus' head, great catch!
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Is there an analogy between the soldiers laughing at Thersites and the gods laughing at Hephaestus? Both characters are abnormal, even subnormal. And this abnormality functions as a point of reunification.
Great question! I hadn't thought of that before.
I thought this was interesting.
The king yammers senselessly: “Old Priam, words, endless words-that is your passion…”
And the armies cannot communicate: “they speak a thousand different tongues…”
Troy seems to be in a state of babel.
Interesting insight. Troy does seem to be leaderless at times and thus somewhat chaotic.