Obviously I'm no expert but I feel compelled to say this. I was a skeptic of behind the neck press because I had all kinds of shoulder mobility and popping issues with regular OHP and bench. I started stretching daily and doing behind the neck press with just the bar. Like 10 reps at first. Over time I worked up to like 15 reps with small weights like 5's and 10's and eventually was able to go heavy with 5x5's ect. I'm telling you behind the neck press completely opened up my shoulder mobility and I have no issues anymore. Bench press and OHP are no longer uncomfortable for me. This is just my experience but I'm currently of the opinion that if you CAN'T do behind the neck press then you should work with stretches and very safe weight until you can. My shoulders have never been better.
I did the behind the neck press for years until one day it screwed up my shoulder. All the orthopedic surgeons that I've talked to all told me to stay away from the behind the neck press because the shoulders are not designed to handle that motion with significant weight.
@@joedimaggio3687 Your body is not "designed" to use barbells. I think the main point is load management, you body can handle x but not x+1 you have to stay below x in order to not get injured and get stronger.
I do free-standing handstand pushups, and I found that this particular exercise helped me increase this ability. I'm not sure why, but I think that behind the head range of motion is recruiting some important muscles for this.
Obvious front and side delts are primary, but I get huge rear delt pump with behind the neck presses, thank God I have the shoulder mobility to be able to do them regularly.
I started doing Behind The Neck Press with mid to high reps after my Front Press which I train with higher intensity. I tell you my side delts were lit up like crazy, to the point where super light lateral raises in that same workout were much harder to get through than normal. It almost turned my lateral raises into junk volume, because the side delts were hit that hard. I know you talk about "optimal this" and "optimal that", but what we both agree upon is if you want to grow a muscle, then pick an exercise where that muscle's primary function is being challenged, which in the lateral delt's case is humeral abduction. With that in mind, a BTN Press imo is not only more enjoyable but easier to control than lateral raises due to the shorter moment arm, and definitely safer on my shoulders than upright rows, so I think I'm keeping it in my routine.
BTN Press isn't a front delt-focused exercise. It shifts the focus to your side delts, rear delts, and upper traps. It also engages your rotator cuff, making it work a lot harder.
Was doing and it deffo had better development than now that I haven't done them more than a year. Also it's not for everyone, as you said not everyone can comfortably do them
In 1999-2000, I was able to behind the neck barbell 225 for reps. That was the exercise to do back then! That and of course bench. My delts were absolutely tremendous when I was able to handle that weight
This is exactly what I was doing in 95. I wasn’t even doing front presses and my delts were tremendous as well. Once I stopped doing them , my delts never achieved that look.
Not sure this is taking into account every thing. I guess its because it was an off cuff question. So, some reasons: zero chest involvment and a fair amount of rear delt, side delt and tricep activation for me anyway. So exactly what a compound should do. Its not heavy at all but thats where I am at.
The points of the behind the neck press are that unlike the normal overhead press, you can't cheat by leaning back, and secondly, it activates the lateral deltoids more
@michaellupu2080 Calling leaning back cheating was a bit much. The upper chest helping is a feature, not a bug, but some times, you don't want the chest helping
@freehatespeech6804 you're right. Unless you take it too far, really arch hard, doing a "standing bench press". I was really concurring with the side delt activation comment.
@@michaellupu2080 I mean you can do that if you are doing it on purpose and it's what you want, but personally I'd rather just do incline bench or declined push ups
I remember reading that some people have different attachment points for their muscles. Your bicep might attach higher to the bone than mines. Or on a slightly further part of the bone. This is what gives some people different ranges of motion so if you can do it you can do it and if you can’t don’t beat yourself up about it 😂.
Take my advice and stay away from it. After doing this exercise for years, one day, I badly screwed up my shoulder from doing it. If you don't believe me, then talk to an orthopedic surgeon about this exercise. I always tell people to stay away.
Adding to the performance note, Olympic weightlifters (Snatch and Clean & Jerk) perform BTH presses all the time because they have to be strong in that range of motion for their sport. You can't really use them as an argument for or against the movement (IMO). If you're an Oly lifter, do it or get to where you can do it. If you're not, don't try to use them as an argument for the exercise
Being strong in that ROM for the average lifter is very benificial since it decreases the risk for shoulder injuries and makes you an all around better lifter. The behind the neck press is without a doubt one of the most underrated exercises ever. Doing dumbell pullovers can greatly help with ones ability to do them.
If the goal is to hit the front delts then I wouldn't say behind-the-neck is your best bang for the buck. However, if you're wanting to hit the side delts then I'd say that's perhaps when you'd want to do a behind-the-neck press. Maybe?
Can a person get near their maximum of SIDE delt gains without ever overhead pressing above a 45 deg incline? So basically side raise variations ALONE enough for side delts?
Any hypertrophy coach fans know of a physical therapy version of Joe? Any actual experts on things like shoulder bursitis, tendonipathy, herniated discs, etc?
The point of behind the neck is to minimize pec participation. Most people shoulder press with their chest, behind the neck prevents you from arching back and using your chest like in the Hypertrophy Coach thumbnail for "How to Overhead Press for Huge Round Delts..."
Good assessments. I tried Behind the neck twice over the years. Stopped both times when I started getting shoulder pain. But that is me. Others can do them with no prob. I also like the idea of change-up. The dumbbell route too, but cables mainly because of tension at the stretched muscle point. I also like his alternates for experimenting. I also like Joe Bennett is a professed brother in the Lord which is cool.
What a complete lack of understanding! Press behind the neck through the full range from traps to overhead really hits the delts and in particular rear and side fellas, it’s NOT a front felt exercise!
Behind the neck presses create too much external rotation on the humerus cranking down on the rotator cuff...much like close grip upright rows create internal rotation and grinding the rotator cuff.
@HypertrophyCoach the purpose of the BNP isn't just to train the front delta like you make it out to be. It's an over all shoulder builder, the "arbitrary" rom isolates shoulders and makes leaning impossible. It absolutely smokes all heads of the shoulder and triceps. As well as working stabilizers. Its am amazing movement. In my opinion, most people will make flimsy arguments to avoid it because they're weak and lazy. My BNP helped me build a 275 OHP natty.
I’m so tired of this bullshit. Everyone in the fitness industry with their outdated knowledge saying how behind the neck movements are bad for you and you shouldn’t do them if they’re not comfortable. If they’re uncomfortable, it’s the number one reason why you should do them. You have to address the problem instead of avoiding it and possibly making it worse by training muscles at ‘comfortable’ angles. And one way to address them is to challenge your shoulders in the ranges of motion that might not feel comfortable, but with repetition will get better at. That’s literally how you fix every mobility and muscle imbalance issue. Your back hurts? 9/10 times it’s because it’s weak and you need to train it. Your knees hurt? 9/10 times it’s because of muscle imbalance and you should watch some overthekneesguy videos. Don’t avoid it. Challenge it.
Once you’ve trained people long enough, and understand the body, and not just memorize arbitrary, pre-made exercises, you’d know there’s zero reason to ever have someone do an exercise that hurts. And while I completely understand the sentiment of the “you’re in pain cause your weak there, so train it” argument. That’s still just a soundbite that always needs context and can’t be blanket applied. The difference of joint structure/articulations from joint to joint, makes a massive differences in how you’d treat a knee, hip or shoulder, for example. And unless you train using an x-ray, you don’t know the cause of the pain/discomfort. There are so many different shaped acromions for example. And speaking specifically to the exercise in the video, the acromion articulating with some structure could be causing the pain. And no amount of training will change that bone structure.
@@HypertrophyCoach “zero reason to ever have someone do an exercise that hurts”? So what do you call pain when stretching? Training to/near failure? Hell, just basic physiotherapy after an injury/surgery can be incredibly painful but very crucial in recovery. I can’t believe you just said there’s zero reason. And when considering shoulders, there is no mechanical reason for people to not be able to move their arms straight up. 9/10 times it’s because of lack of mobility. And you fix it by gradually challenging it. Which BTN movements do as long as you don’t go too heavy you lose control of the weight.
“Hurts” was referencing orthopedic pain. And considering the number of ways to train, front delts for example, there no reason to choose an exercise that causes orthopedic pain. And yea, I’m familiar with the shoulder join and that “impingement” is also an often misused soundbite as well. That doesn’t change the fact that end ranges do exist, and they differ from person to person. And not everything can (should) be “fixed” with mobility work.
Obviously I'm no expert but I feel compelled to say this. I was a skeptic of behind the neck press because I had all kinds of shoulder mobility and popping issues with regular OHP and bench. I started stretching daily and doing behind the neck press with just the bar. Like 10 reps at first. Over time I worked up to like 15 reps with small weights like 5's and 10's and eventually was able to go heavy with 5x5's ect. I'm telling you behind the neck press completely opened up my shoulder mobility and I have no issues anymore. Bench press and OHP are no longer uncomfortable for me. This is just my experience but I'm currently of the opinion that if you CAN'T do behind the neck press then you should work with stretches and very safe weight until you can. My shoulders have never been better.
I did the behind the neck press for years until one day it screwed up my shoulder. All the orthopedic surgeons that I've talked to all told me to stay away from the behind the neck press because the shoulders are not designed to handle that motion with significant weight.
@@joedimaggio3687 Your body is not "designed" to use barbells. I think the main point is load management, you body can handle x but not x+1 you have to stay below x in order to not get injured and get stronger.
@@mack0ka this behind the neck press is just not worth the risk.
Did it work for your rear delts and side delts?
@@luanfreitas2303 IMO mostly front and side delts. I feel a really deep burn at the end of my sets.
I mainly do the behind the neck press because I heard that it activates the medial head/traps more which are areas I want to focus on.
That’s not “bad”. But there are definitely better exercises for both medial head and traps
I do free-standing handstand pushups, and I found that this particular exercise helped me increase this ability. I'm not sure why, but I think that behind the head range of motion is recruiting some important muscles for this.
Obvious front and side delts are primary,
but I get huge rear delt pump with behind the neck presses,
thank God I have the shoulder mobility to be able to do them regularly.
*obvious=obviously
Same
Me too . On standard military press i feel nothing on rear delts .. with neck press my rear delts get pumped properly and develop
I started doing Behind The Neck Press with mid to high reps after my Front Press which I train with higher intensity. I tell you my side delts were lit up like crazy, to the point where super light lateral raises in that same workout were much harder to get through than normal. It almost turned my lateral raises into junk volume, because the side delts were hit that hard.
I know you talk about "optimal this" and "optimal that", but what we both agree upon is if you want to grow a muscle, then pick an exercise where that muscle's primary function is being challenged, which in the lateral delt's case is humeral abduction. With that in mind, a BTN Press imo is not only more enjoyable but easier to control than lateral raises due to the shorter moment arm, and definitely safer on my shoulders than upright rows, so I think I'm keeping it in my routine.
BTN Press isn't a front delt-focused exercise. It shifts the focus to your side delts, rear delts, and upper traps. It also engages your rotator cuff, making it work a lot harder.
I do them at the end of the workout for mobility work. Light weight for higher reps like 20 reps has done a lot for my shoulders
Smart !!!
Behind the neck press is A1!!!!
If it fits you, have at it! 👊
Until it screws up your shoulder. I should know.
Not according to orthopedic surgeons.
@@joedimaggio3687 keep crying
@GraysonAugustine ok tough guy, and where did you go to medical school?
Was doing and it deffo had better development than now that I haven't done them more than a year. Also it's not for everyone, as you said not everyone can comfortably do them
In 1999-2000, I was able to behind the neck barbell 225 for reps. That was the exercise to do back then! That and of course bench. My delts were absolutely tremendous when I was able to handle that weight
This is exactly what I was doing in 95. I wasn’t even doing front presses and my delts were tremendous as well. Once I stopped doing them , my delts never achieved that look.
500 for 500
@ghostintheshelllgood for side delts?
To each his own, I have done this with way much less weight and end up in pain.
@@leonitis59 no - my point is that this was a BRUTAL exercise with big results, but big risk! Absolutely they are not worth the pain or injury
Not sure this is taking into account every thing. I guess its because it was an off cuff question. So, some reasons: zero chest involvment and a fair amount of rear delt, side delt and tricep activation for me anyway. So exactly what a compound should do. Its not heavy at all but thats where I am at.
Agree with this
The points of the behind the neck press are that unlike the normal overhead press, you can't cheat by leaning back, and secondly, it activates the lateral deltoids more
Exactly!
@michaellupu2080 Calling leaning back cheating was a bit much. The upper chest helping is a feature, not a bug, but some times, you don't want the chest helping
@freehatespeech6804 you're right. Unless you take it too far, really arch hard, doing a "standing bench press".
I was really concurring with the side delt activation comment.
@@michaellupu2080 I mean you can do that if you are doing it on purpose and it's what you want, but personally I'd rather just do incline bench or declined push ups
I remember reading that some people have different attachment points for their muscles. Your bicep might attach higher to the bone than mines. Or on a slightly further part of the bone. This is what gives some people different ranges of motion so if you can do it you can do it and if you can’t don’t beat yourself up about it 😂.
the point of it is to load more weight on the side delts, not front delts
It’s doesn’t
@@HypertrophyCoach if you've ever had btn presses consistently in your routine, you'd know it causes crazy delt growth
I have. And the thousands of people I’ve trained the last 20 years. Glad it works for you though 👊
@@HypertrophyCoach must not have implemented it for long enough
I love doing it on a smith machine, feels a lot safer
Yep, I feel less of the front delt and more of the side
The BTN press is for the side delts, not the front delts. That's why you wanna do it.
Ive been wondering about thiw forever you just answered all my questions thanks joe!
Take my advice and stay away from it. After doing this exercise for years, one day, I badly screwed up my shoulder from doing it. If you don't believe me, then talk to an orthopedic surgeon about this exercise. I always tell people to stay away.
I tried to BNP with a slightly wide grip. It did not work. I brought my hands in a bit and it allows me to bring my elbows down and in much easier.
Variety is the spice of life
Adding to the performance note, Olympic weightlifters (Snatch and Clean & Jerk) perform BTH presses all the time because they have to be strong in that range of motion for their sport. You can't really use them as an argument for or against the movement (IMO). If you're an Oly lifter, do it or get to where you can do it. If you're not, don't try to use them as an argument for the exercise
Being strong in that ROM for the average lifter is very benificial since it decreases the risk for shoulder injuries and makes you an all around better lifter. The behind the neck press is without a doubt one of the most underrated exercises ever. Doing dumbell pullovers can greatly help with ones ability to do them.
Does Behind the head hits side delts slightly better than in front of the head?
No. Especially not compared to good side delt exercises.
If the goal is to hit the front delts then I wouldn't say behind-the-neck is your best bang for the buck. However, if you're wanting to hit the side delts then I'd say that's perhaps when you'd want to do a behind-the-neck press. Maybe?
Can a person get near their maximum of SIDE delt gains without ever overhead pressing above a 45 deg incline? So basically side raise variations ALONE enough for side delts?
Yes
Does it work front,mid and rear delt
Argument 3: “Yeah but Kevin looked so damn good doing it!”
HC & MMMD: 100% Valid 😊 lol
He’s finally back ❤🎉
Any hypertrophy coach fans know of a physical therapy version of Joe? Any actual experts on things like shoulder bursitis, tendonipathy, herniated discs, etc?
The point of behind the neck is to minimize pec participation. Most people shoulder press with their chest, behind the neck prevents you from arching back and using your chest like in the Hypertrophy Coach thumbnail for "How to Overhead Press for Huge Round Delts..."
Good assessments. I tried Behind the neck twice over the years. Stopped both times when I started getting shoulder pain. But that is me. Others can do them with no prob. I also like the idea of change-up. The dumbbell route too, but cables mainly because of tension at the stretched muscle point. I also like his alternates for experimenting. I also like Joe Bennett is a professed brother in the Lord which is cool.
Wait when does he say he is a Christian? That’s awesome!
@@brewhaha515 In interview with Lee Labrada recently. Lee is too.
@@faithnfitnessguykk9569 this makes me very happy ❤️🔥
Thanks for responding to my comment bro!
Non answer video skip
What a complete lack of understanding! Press behind the neck through the full range from traps to overhead really hits the delts and in particular rear and side fellas, it’s NOT a front felt exercise!
Behind the neck presses create too much external rotation on the humerus cranking down on the rotator cuff...much like close grip upright rows create internal rotation and grinding the rotator cuff.
How do you know how much is too much? You think it’s the same for every individual?
Thanks doc. You must have been told this of Athlean X.
Strawman argument
How so?
@HypertrophyCoach the purpose of the BNP isn't just to train the front delta like you make it out to be. It's an over all shoulder builder, the "arbitrary" rom isolates shoulders and makes leaning impossible. It absolutely smokes all heads of the shoulder and triceps. As well as working stabilizers. Its am amazing movement. In my opinion, most people will make flimsy arguments to avoid it because they're weak and lazy. My BNP helped me build a 275 OHP natty.
Ur wrong … btn is neck is goat for complete shoulders and posture !
💯👊
I’m so tired of this bullshit. Everyone in the fitness industry with their outdated knowledge saying how behind the neck movements are bad for you and you shouldn’t do them if they’re not comfortable.
If they’re uncomfortable, it’s the number one reason why you should do them. You have to address the problem instead of avoiding it and possibly making it worse by training muscles at ‘comfortable’ angles.
And one way to address them is to challenge your shoulders in the ranges of motion that might not feel comfortable, but with repetition will get better at. That’s literally how you fix every mobility and muscle imbalance issue. Your back hurts? 9/10 times it’s because it’s weak and you need to train it. Your knees hurt? 9/10 times it’s because of muscle imbalance and you should watch some overthekneesguy videos.
Don’t avoid it. Challenge it.
Once you’ve trained people long enough, and understand the body, and not just memorize arbitrary, pre-made exercises, you’d know there’s zero reason to ever have someone do an exercise that hurts.
And while I completely understand the sentiment of the “you’re in pain cause your weak there, so train it” argument. That’s still just a soundbite that always needs context and can’t be blanket applied.
The difference of joint structure/articulations from joint to joint, makes a massive differences in how you’d treat a knee, hip or shoulder, for example.
And unless you train using an x-ray, you don’t know the cause of the pain/discomfort. There are so many different shaped acromions for example. And speaking specifically to the exercise in the video, the acromion articulating with some structure could be causing the pain. And no amount of training will change that bone structure.
@@HypertrophyCoach “zero reason to ever have someone do an exercise that hurts”? So what do you call pain when stretching? Training to/near failure? Hell, just basic physiotherapy after an injury/surgery can be incredibly painful but very crucial in recovery.
I can’t believe you just said there’s zero reason.
And when considering shoulders, there is no mechanical reason for people to not be able to move their arms straight up. 9/10 times it’s because of lack of mobility. And you fix it by gradually challenging it. Which BTN movements do as long as you don’t go too heavy you lose control of the weight.
I suggest checking “The TRUTH About Shoulder Impingement” by E3 Rehab on the subject.
“Hurts” was referencing orthopedic pain. And considering the number of ways to train, front delts for example, there no reason to choose an exercise that causes orthopedic pain.
And yea, I’m familiar with the shoulder join and that “impingement” is also an often misused soundbite as well. That doesn’t change the fact that end ranges do exist, and they differ from person to person. And not everything can (should) be “fixed” with mobility work.