On Sports Science, can Poker champion Daniel Negreanu bluffs his way past a lie detector. Read about more amazing athletic feats: www.amazon.com/Perfection-Poin...
This is kind of lame, Daniel isn't good because he bluffs, in fact he very rarely bluffs. He is good because he knows exactly what cards the other players have. (almost magically)
His problem is that he second guesses himself. I have seen him call the EXACT CARDS someone was holding then play as if he was wrong, he needs to trust himself more
Daniel was a terrible choice. He doesn’t bluff very often and when he does, since he does it so little, everyone thinks he’s not bluffing. If he were up against the lie detector in a test to see who’s better, that’s a good test. Daniel can read your cards even if you don’t pick them up.
@logipi79 Yes, some people already pointed that out. I thought it was the host who said that, but it was the guy who operated the polygraph. My mistake.
Daniel isn't famous for his bluff, though. He is famous for his ability to read his opponents tells. He is also amazing at the small talk to get all the small details that he needs to know what the person has.
He's even admitted before that he isn't a very good liar. PokerStars season 2, episode 2 (or possibly 3) he says it himself. He's good at poker cause he can read other people so well, and he's just very strategical.
I always believe people can train to lie to a lie detector (so it can't be admissible in a court and also it is far for 100% acurrate maybe), like special agents, soldiers or spys if they get caught by the enemy. This guy Daniel train to lie to people not to a lie detector. I think is completlely different, people will see your eyes, gestures, movements and all that and the polygraph doesn't see that, it is measuring his levels of stress and anxiety, so Daniel isn't concern to be less stress, he is concern of don't show it with his eyes and movements in a poker game.
But poker is not about your heart rate, the other players don't see that. It's about your signals and ability to keep a poker face and read signals given by other players.
Its funny cuz Daniel doesn't bluff so much. What he is really famous for is his incredible read of other players. Often he just spells their cards and he turns out to be right.
so would it be a viable tactic to try breathing faster and doing everything you can to speed the beating of your heart/sweat when answering the calibration questions truthfully?
"I can sit at anyone's home game not look at my cards and guarantee to win almost every time" Sorry Daniel... you're an amazing player... but not even Stu could pull that off.
I don't mean to sound like an idiot but I'm trying to learn somethin. In my general phy class we learned about probability, statistics and controlled experiments, but I don't see how this relates to a experiment that is not about percentage or "how many are x out the bunch". Could you explain to me a lil.
They will count their "outs" however. When you think you need to improve your hand to win at showdown you can count up how many cards left in the deck will improve your hand and work out the odds of one of them being dealt. You can then make a statistically correct decision based on the money in the pot vs. how much it is to call (this is called "pot odds") and you can even factor in how much more money you think you can get from your opponent should you make your hand ("implied pot odds")
Negreanu is great, love this guy. And yes, poker is a very complex strategy sport which requires a great deal of experience and knowledge. Anyone can win one hand at random, but winning constantly like these guys do requires talent and focus.
and there's something else: STRESS doesn't just happen when you lie, it's when you feel something less than 100% comfort/confidence. Last night in a live casino poker room I had AA under the gun, and of course loose gamblers called my reasonably big raise, first one then another; 5 of us saw a flop. And I recall my heart racing HUGE and my blood pressure higher BEFORE the flop was dealt (it was JcTh8h; SB bet small, then BB raised huge, I wisely folded -- they chopped, BOTH had Q9o!).
depends on what definition of sport somebody has. games like poker or chess are very competitive and the performance depends not only on ones knowledge of the game, but also on the mental state. those games are considered mind sports. weightlifting is mainly about pure strenght, a hockey player needs to be physically strong, but also have understanding of tactics. for mind games you don't need to be an athlet at all. show-wrestiling is athletic, but not competitive. is that sport?
Yeah I can understand that people who compete in those things probably don't like it to be called just a game, but I'm not sure that's enough to just overlook what the definition of a sport actually is. I suppose the definition could vary and I don't want to quote google definitions lol, but it does mention physical exertion from what I've seen. I would say sports, chess, pool, etc can all rest in the competitive game category together happily, since sports are games too.
I'm precisely on the same boat as you. Although poker hasn't been mathematically "perfected," it's certainly evolved to an insane degree due to massive amounts of analysis being performed on it. That being said, I'm also shite at it XD
Its funny, when this video was made Daniel didn't do a lot of bluffing. But now hes really incorporated well timed bluffs into his game, so all the comments from five years ago saying he doesn't bluff were right at the time but are wrong to somebody just reading them rn.
It seems weird to me that they're playing a game where both players know the point of them playing is so Negreanu can bluff. It seems like it might take away from the lie a bit. Just wondering if that could effect the results in any way. It also seemed like they didn't really play that many hands (could easily just been from them editing) so he seemed kind of forced to "bluff" on the first hand he was dealt. It just didn't feel like an actual poker moment like they were trying to simulate.
Does anyone else think that if they were on a lie detector test it would detect a lie on you no matter what because of how worried you'd be that it'd detect a lie?
Although I agree that Daniel's not the best at this aspect of poker (he does have obvious tells at times) and that someone like Phil Ivey or Tom Dwan would be much suited for this, Daniel still did good. I mean, he adapted to the machine and basically played back at it. It's basically saying now he could probably commit a crime, have him investigated with the detector and still get away with it. Awesome clip!
You have to be able to lose or win in some way. I would argue any activity can be considered a sport. All you need is an association. I guess we could start the NSAASA - National Schooling As A Sport Association. :)
Have you ever heard about Expected Value? Failure can happen in any sport. I'm sure you often hear from athletes phrases like "today is not my day." When you are doing everything right and still failing. Success in the long run. In all sports.
Sport (noun) -- an activity requiring physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. I don't think moving your hand to make a move counts as physical exertion...
That's why you pick those spots you don't need lucky cards to win, with the right reads. What poker player do you know that plays every single hand. Daniel could probably play the situation and the other's on the table and still win without looking at much of his cards. If you don't know what Annette Obrestad did in an online tournament, I'd suggest you look it up.
Having two high stakes players sit down and play for nothing but science won’t give you a fair representation of what they do. Do I have to do everything?
Yeah, and the way Daniel was acting was otally different than how he usually does. Normally he's talking constantly, which would totally throw the detector.
Making heart pump harder, sweating more, faster breathing seems like things you can "train" for, similar to actors who can cry on que, I think there are too much trust placed on lie detectors.
Спорт
They should have done this the other way around - see if Negreanu can detect other people lying better than the machine.
I saw a video a while back on TV where they did exactly that
haha :D
That’s much better.
Idk if that would have worked tho because a ton of his ability to read an opponent comes from game situation, environmental factors etc
durrrr would send the lie detector to valuetown.
lol
hahahhahahaa
😂😂
I think you mean sickland.
Jajsjajajajajajajajajajjajajajajajaa
This is kind of lame, Daniel isn't good because he bluffs, in fact he very rarely bluffs. He is good because he knows exactly what cards the other players have. (almost magically)
Yeah, Daniel is amazing at calling the other players' hands. It's scary.
They should have gotten tom dwan
His problem is that he second guesses himself. I have seen him call the EXACT CARDS someone was holding then play as if he was wrong, he needs to trust himself more
True dat. He's reads are scary good.
YEP, they picked the wrong poker player for bluffing. He is the BEST Caller not the best bluffer. They should pick TOM DWAN for best bluffer.
Tony G would've called time on the lie detector results
Helmuth would have complained that he played the lie detector perfectly and that it got lucky
Lol that was funny
Phil Hellmuth would've complained about the lie detector calling his raise with 8-3 offsuit, and then defeating Hellmuth!
Cool premise. Lame execution. The show's annoying.
Phil Ivey would be a better test subject
For lies sure, but Daniel is a better player over all
Brendon gonna pretend I did not see that
What did I just read lol
Idk if Phil bluffs a lot really but Daniel doesn’t so maybe he would be better
Daniel was a terrible choice. He doesn’t bluff very often and when he does, since he does it so little, everyone thinks he’s not bluffing. If he were up against the lie detector in a test to see who’s better, that’s a good test.
Daniel can read your cards even if you don’t pick them up.
Dwan is more bluff oriented than Daniel. Daniel can read lies better than he can get away with them.
Every thing about this screams "2010"
Phil Ivey would dominate the machine.
They should have asked him 50-100 questions, and got the percentages of how often the machine made a mistake.
Yeah, because we got the machine at 66%, which isn't that great. With statistical variance, the machine might not be any better than a 50:50 guess.
"Hi i'm Daniel! Who are you?" LOL xD Best part :D
Daniel is an expert at reads, need Dan for bluffs
Should have brought Phil Ivey -- The master bluffer
@logipi79 Yes, some people already pointed that out. I thought it was the host who said that, but it was the guy who operated the polygraph. My mistake.
Daniel isn't famous for his bluff, though. He is famous for his ability to read his opponents tells. He is also amazing at the small talk to get all the small details that he needs to know what the person has.
Very interesting, thank you for uploading!
@ba32107 I know they did. I was referring to the 25 people that gave your comment a thumbs up.
Damn daniel
LOL
He's even admitted before that he isn't a very good liar. PokerStars season 2, episode 2 (or possibly 3) he says it himself. He's good at poker cause he can read other people so well, and he's just very strategical.
How have I never seen this, Laak and Negreanu are my two faves!
“ put a object in front of you “ puts WomAn
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA, that cancel at end. LOL
I always believe people can train to lie to a lie detector (so it can't be admissible in a court and also it is far for 100% acurrate maybe), like special agents, soldiers or spys if they get caught by the enemy. This guy Daniel train to lie to people not to a lie detector. I think is completlely different, people will see your eyes, gestures, movements and all that and the polygraph doesn't see that, it is measuring his levels of stress and anxiety, so Daniel isn't concern to be less stress, he is concern of don't show it with his eyes and movements in a poker game.
Is nobody else gonna mention the fact that when the narrator said "a strong pair" at the end he may have been referring to breasts?
hahahh
not "may", he sure was.
Nice observation sherlock
"...when he's looking at a strong pair" LMAO
"Hi, I'm Daniel. How are you?" LOL
Strong choice of player... Daniel is one of the most honest players I've seen lol
But poker is not about your heart rate, the other players don't see that. It's about your signals and ability to keep a poker face and read signals given by other players.
Its funny cuz Daniel doesn't bluff so much. What he is really famous for is his incredible read of other players. Often he just spells their cards and he turns out to be right.
@JETemplar thats absolutely right!
so would it be a viable tactic to try breathing faster and doing everything you can to speed the beating of your heart/sweat when answering the calibration questions truthfully?
@ba32107 it's like his next sentence was going to be, "ha haaaa... take that, alll reds" LOL!
Who's the model what's her name
Sam Jimenez sorry bro
What is it episode?
"I can sit at anyone's home game not look at my cards and guarantee to win almost every
time" Sorry Daniel... you're an amazing player... but not even Stu could pull that off.
Could you tell me why it's not?
Thanks for the upload!!!
From 2019 people
I don't mean to sound like an idiot but I'm trying to learn somethin. In my general phy class we learned about probability, statistics and controlled experiments, but I don't see how this relates to a experiment that is not about percentage or "how many are x out the bunch". Could you explain to me a lil.
what about Durrr?
who is the model
@lollerz16 thanks!
They will count their "outs" however. When you think you need to improve your hand to win at showdown you can count up how many cards left in the deck will improve your hand and work out the odds of one of them being dealt. You can then make a statistically correct decision based on the money in the pot vs. how much it is to call (this is called "pot odds") and you can even factor in how much more money you think you can get from your opponent should you make your hand ("implied pot odds")
now he cant be all loosey goosey on the table
When in poker do you answer yes and no questions when someone asks you what hand youve got?
What's the name of that model? O:
@04m6gto Yes I know, several other people pointed that out already.
3:38 One issue with that, chance of a false-positive if he told the truth. Part of the reason why polygraph results are inadmissible in court
This video had all the things I like in it
"hi i'm Daniel...Who are you?" LOL!!!
Negreanu is great, love this guy. And yes, poker is a very complex strategy sport which requires a great deal of experience and knowledge. Anyone can win one hand at random, but winning constantly like these guys do requires talent and focus.
"Is there a dog in a tutu in front of you?"
"Yes, and she's kind of fat."
worked out how to balance his bluffs and value well played sir
and there's something else: STRESS doesn't just happen when you lie, it's when you feel something less than 100% comfort/confidence.
Last night in a live casino poker room I had AA under the gun, and of course loose gamblers called my reasonably big raise, first one then another; 5 of us saw a flop. And I recall my heart racing HUGE and my blood pressure higher BEFORE the flop was dealt (it was JcTh8h; SB bet small, then BB raised huge, I wisely folded -- they chopped, BOTH had Q9o!).
How Epic would it be that the Lie Detector would write DURRED if it was hooked up to Tom Dwan....
LOLZ...
y esta sacada de rabo de video?
You're right about that. And I'd agree that cheerleading is a sport. But tell me- is Candyland a sport?
Ya even girls hearts would go up I know mine did
sometimes the risk is absolutely necessary though bluffing well can give you a huge advantage in poker...
Is there anyone that pronounces his last name right?
Next time I plan to bluff someone, I'm gonna look at my chips and look back at them so they think I have a good hand. lol
depends on what definition of sport somebody has. games like poker or chess are very competitive and the performance depends not only on ones knowledge of the game, but also on the mental state. those games are considered mind sports. weightlifting is mainly about pure strenght, a hockey player needs to be physically strong, but also have understanding of tactics. for mind games you don't need to be an athlet at all. show-wrestiling is athletic, but not competitive. is that sport?
this is hella cool! :D
Yeah I can understand that people who compete in those things probably don't like it to be called just a game, but I'm not sure that's enough to just overlook what the definition of a sport actually is. I suppose the definition could vary and I don't want to quote google definitions lol, but it does mention physical exertion from what I've seen. I would say sports, chess, pool, etc can all rest in the competitive game category together happily, since sports are games too.
...So they only got him to "fool" it once, and they call it conclusive? That's not science.
I'm precisely on the same boat as you. Although poker hasn't been mathematically "perfected," it's certainly evolved to an insane degree due to massive amounts of analysis being performed on it. That being said, I'm also shite at it XD
They did him dirty at the end, poor Daniel
That pun at the end
Its funny, when this video was made Daniel didn't do a lot of bluffing. But now hes really incorporated well timed bluffs into his game, so all the comments from five years ago saying he doesn't bluff were right at the time but are wrong to somebody just reading them rn.
LMAO at the end
Kinda funny because he did have Queen-High beat technically since there was a pair of tens on the board..... just a thought.
It seems weird to me that they're playing a game where both players know the point of them playing is so Negreanu can bluff. It seems like it might take away from the lie a bit. Just wondering if that could effect the results in any way. It also seemed like they didn't really play that many hands (could easily just been from them editing) so he seemed kind of forced to "bluff" on the first hand he was dealt. It just didn't feel like an actual poker moment like they were trying to simulate.
Does anyone else think that if they were on a lie detector test it would detect a lie on you no matter what because of how worried you'd be that it'd detect a lie?
"The machine just called my raise with 8-3 offsuite honey!"
Although I agree that Daniel's not the best at this aspect of poker (he does have obvious tells at times) and that someone like Phil Ivey or Tom Dwan would be much suited for this, Daniel still did good. I mean, he adapted to the machine and basically played back at it. It's basically saying now he could probably commit a crime, have him investigated with the detector and still get away with it. Awesome clip!
I love the last part.
Patrick Antoninus would be great at this
Considering that this was uploaded in 2009....
is too
You have to be able to lose or win in some way.
I would argue any activity can be considered a sport. All you need is an association.
I guess we could start the NSAASA - National Schooling As A Sport Association. :)
Have you ever heard about Expected Value? Failure can happen in any sport. I'm sure you often hear from athletes phrases like "today is not my day." When you are doing everything right and still failing. Success in the long run. In all sports.
i respect that. plus you got scottie and michael as your default and im from chicago. good choice.
He doesn't only want to win at poker, he also want to win at arguments. I just lied, and that's the truth!
He did have Queen High beat. Everyone at the table had Queen-high beat. The table paired tens.
CIA Guy Everytime : Uhhh.... the results say you were lying..? I dont know man the machine isnt perfect!!!
Sport (noun) -- an activity requiring physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. I don't think moving your hand to make a move counts as physical exertion...
Aside from the fact Daniel doesn't bluff, he reads extremely well. Plus polygraphs are insanely inaccurate
They've been proven so...
Neg is perpetuating the myth that poker is all about reading.
She don't like liars lol.
To beat a polygraph, just say the opposite of your intended answer (the intended answer can be a lie) and breathe faster
@neills Ohh I thought it was the host guy who said that, not the polygraph guy. Fair enough then.
That's why you pick those spots you don't need lucky cards to win, with the right reads. What poker player do you know that plays every single hand. Daniel could probably play the situation and the other's on the table and still win without looking at much of his cards. If you don't know what Annette Obrestad did in an online tournament, I'd suggest you look it up.
you sir, you have a lengendary comment right there
Having two high stakes players sit down and play for nothing but science won’t give you a fair representation of what they do. Do I have to do everything?
Yeah, and the way Daniel was acting was otally different than how he usually does. Normally he's talking constantly, which would totally throw the detector.
Let's be honest- he was hardly lying with the first question. 03:15. I'd just think "well- there is a hound in a 2-piece"...
sport isnt just about sweating, exercising or being physical. its also about mental brain , and adjustments
The fact that the lie detector thought he was lying at the end, proves that lie detectors can't always be relied on.
Making heart pump harder, sweating more, faster breathing seems like things you can "train" for, similar to actors who can cry on que, I think there are too much trust placed on lie detectors.
I'm Jaeger, it's so nice to meet you.