What is Metropolitan Community Churches?
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- The Metropolitan Community Church is a denomination of congregations that cater to the LGBT community. In this video we’ll talk about their history and theology.
00:00 Story of Troy Perry and MCC Founding
01:14 MCC Participation of Legalization of Same-Sex Marriage
02:16 MCC Statement of Faith
04:00 MCC Core Values
05:06 MCC Guiding Principles
06:25 The Bible
06:41 Who is Jesus?
08:08 Communion
10:20 Baptism
11:02 Salvation
11:12 Sexuality in MCC
13:19 Church Government and Affiliations
13:59 Current Status of MCC
Bro no matter what denomination you cover in these great videos, you always display professionalism.
The contrast between the tone of the video and the comments is impressive, yet expected. I admire Josh’s professionalism.
Likewise. Thank you for your objectivity.
Josh is very objective here, but he is with all the churches he covers. This one has multiple issues. It has no real conception of Jesus and even approves of "aw R.G.s" (euphemism) and forms of adultery. I could understand if it was just pro-LGBT or same sex marriage, and worshipped Jesus, but it goes way beyond that.
Sad how all the good comments are at the bottom
@@josh_final you mean all of the comments that say that 'thou shalt not commit adultery' is largely meaningless?
@@thursoberwick1948 now you know. A lot of people think that just because the term church is in the name of a religion that it is therefore Christian. Anybody who seriously peruses this fine channel will see that some of these things are not like the others.
I would've never known about the MCC if I wasn't subbed to this wonderful channel. Love the content and God Bless!
No, God will not bless.
@@davidlafleche1142 💯
@@davidlafleche1142 We need to know what is out there. Most people do not know that this false church actually had evangelical roots. We need to be watchful at all times.
Joshua's information is helpful.
@@sudoku1966 That's because the so-called "evangelicals" were so desperate to pay off their building programs, they'd baptize a corpse it it had any money.
I didn't know they existed either
I had no idea such a group existed and your coverage of their beliefs and background in a very neutral, unbiased way is simply divine.
Josh, could you possibly do a segment on lgbt experiences in the different denominations. For example lgbt Roman Catholic communities (dignity usa or even lgbt friendly Catholic Churches), lgbt conservative Pentecostals, and lgbt Episcopalians. I think there may be some interesting revelations about the importance of theology over social cohesion and doctrine. However, perhaps the topic is too controversial, just a thought.
The presenter on this site does not shy away from contravesy
I would love to see this
No
Josh sorta does this already by pointing out each denomination or group's official position on LGBT+ concerns, including weather or not there is a significant number of churches, congregations, and clergy that disagree with the official position. He even points out when those concerns becomes a significant part of church splits/separations/schisms like the United Methodist Church (UMC) is currently facing today.
@@frenlyfire If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. You fundamentalists are always so classless … low church BS.
Thank you for this informative overview. I learned a lot.
Whoever said that to r0kus your comment is not able to be viewed.
As always, I like the fact that your videos are very informative. Also one question, do you plan on making a video about Traditionalist Catholic societies such as the FSSP or SSPX?
“Traditionalist”, tradition is submitting to the hierarchy
Agreed. I hope he does since there are differences between these two groups, and other traditionalist communities like the breakaway SSPV - all holding varying "sede-something" positions on the papacy. It would fit well here since Josh also discusses internal splits and schisms within specific denominations and movements.
@@goaltender330 Traditionally there is Church hierarchy.
Considering he's gone to the extremities of the UCC, I would be equally fascinated in such a video.
How's about the Eastern Rite "Uniate" churches?
I have a question for you, Joshua. Has there ever been an official Orthodox Church in America, and, if so, can you make a video on one?
Yes, there are, I will make a video on them eventually. Examples:
www.oca.org/
www.goarch.org/
@@ReadyToHarvest Thank you for that quick reply.
I will be looking forward to a video
OCA, ROCOR, Antioch, Serbia, Jersulam, and Goarch all have parishes in the US
4 replies listed. 3 visible. Thanks YaChoob.
My experience has been that OCA is the best choice for non-culturally-Orthodox converts (although I’ve heard many good things about the Antiochian Archdiocese too! ROCOR I know less about, unfortunately.)
It’s in a complicated situation regarding autocephaly and jurisdiction, but somehow, it’s managed to retain communion with all parties through the 2017 complication. 0:
This is the most informative and non editorialize way to deliver information I've encountered online or in any news source.
Many people could learn how to act this way teaching and in the journalist community.
I think everyone of our national news channels need to learn how to be objective, like this; just presenting the information and leaving people to firm their own opinions.
Lol I know, this guy’s insanely professional with his info
Professional and dull. Vast majority of what he does is just read out loud what is on official sites of said denominations, which you can easily do yourself. I have nothing against the guy nor do I require someone like Sam to constantly raise his voice to keep me engaged, but the whole thing is rather monotone reading out. If he at least offered some commentary, like "this denomination is closest to X" in its beliefs.
Like, I'm sorry, but just talking like you're reading from wiki "Many take Bible seriously but not literally" seems far, FAR too lenient. How about the fact that not only most extreme denominations like Orthodoxy but solid 90%+ of Christian denominations would condemn that as outright heretical? You wouldn't lose ounce of "professionalism" to address how other Christian denominations think/talk/behave towards this one.
On the contrary, but NOT addressing it under the guise of "professionalism" you're implicitly promoting ecumenism and that somehow all of this should be allowed. And by not even addressing it you're paving the road towards more offshoots like Mormonism who aren't Christian by any standard.
I on the other hand, do not wish more people acting this way, because all it sounds is like AI reading wiki compilations out loud.
Thank you for your work! This is very informative and well done
This must be one of the most liberal denominations I've ever heard about, I respect the objectivity with which you present the information.
They’re probably the most liberal. If the fundamentalist Protestant churches are the most conservative the MCC is the opposite end.
@@ranelgallardo7031 I think the UCC (united church of Canada) might be even more Liberal. They have atheists serving as pastors and are against sharing the gospel with people who already have other religions.
The UU if they count
The United Church of Christ and the United Church of Canada are probably the most liberal denominations in the West. But I would describe MCC as the poison that seeped into the mainline denominations, making them support homosexual relationships. Although they were already getting liberal before.
@@pre-debutera6941 technically they do because of their root (historical) background.
Interesting video
While I heavily disagree with the denomination. And with progressive theology in general. I do like learning about the beliefs and traditions of different denominations.
No matter how hellishly deceived
Most importantly, are you 100% sure that if you died today you would go to heaven?
Do you know Jesus Christ?
I am convinced that most people who call themselves "Christian" know religion instead of Jesus Christ. Or they have created their own God in their head. That is why we must make sure that we know the God of the bible and know that we are truly saved.
Lay religion, Christian culture, and even politics aside. Someone who truly loves you is reaching out to you not willing that you should perish (2 Peter3), but that you be saved from the price of your sins.
With that said, how do you deal with your sin? Yes you. How many times have you lied, lusted, or stolen? I'm guilty, what about you? I hope you feel convicted.
But if you're going to reject the free gift of salvation, you ought to think about where you are going after death.
Is this your mindset?
Luke 12:19
“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.”
Please please do not be this person that Jesus described here. I don't care how if you are in a ministry or even behind a pulpit. And their is no shame in getting saved.
Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You see there will be professing Christians that were not actually saved.
I want to help you.
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Because of God's holiness we cannot be in his presence as we are in our sin. No matter how righteous one may appear everyone has sinned and one sin can lead to hell, but there is a way out. We don't deserve it but God made a way that we may become the righteousness of God (Romans 5). I want you to have 100% assurance of salvation.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For WHOSOEVER shall CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED.
Here is the gospel straight and simple:
1. Truly acknowledge that you have sinned against a perfect God and you are worthy of hell that can only be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ
2. Believe that Jesus died for and covered all of your sins and rose again.
3. Say to God that Jesus Christ he is your saviour.
Please let me know. I am praying for you, today is the day of salvation.
2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
@@Daniel-mw7pu Okay, but are you born again?
You should be preparing yourself for the Lord Jesus Christ when He returns. "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 3:2, KJV). Even so, come, Lord Jesus! Establish the Kingdom in Jerusalem, and keep the world safe from Democracy!
@@adognamedkevin9846 Disobeying Ephisians 6:5 is already crafting a road to hell for those. So, think of yourself
You always impress us
Thank you for your amazing work
All the support!!
Have a blessed day
I am VERY thankful that you are covering this and so many other groups of believers that are NOT known by the vast majority of church goers especially in the USA where evangelical fundamentalists and Catholics get all the public attention.
I don't know how God truly feels about your work on this channel. I come from a tradition where an understanding of that is between you and God. I do know, as I've posted in the past, that I am in awe of your ability to present material that I have to think often conflicts with your beliefs, in the way that you do.
I can't judge you as a Christian, but you have nothing but my respect as an academic.
I think the words speak for themselves without needing to apply any emotion or spin on it.
I am sure we can find someone who speaks for God. They are a dime a dozen.
Personally, I think his explanations of denominations makes God smile. There are a lot of Christians who are lost and trying to discern where their church home truly is. Joshua’s videos are an excellent resource for providing information on various Christian communities which can help with the process of figuring out which denomination could be a suitable home for a particular believer.
@@josephengel2091 You really think God is smiling over this? Does God smile when Catholics praise the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven?
@@jamesparson I say this as a Lutheran, but God is happy when his followers honor one of his faithful servants. As the Mother of God, the Virgin Mary should be remembered and held in high honor. And besides that, Joshua is not taking a side, but explaining denominations in a neutral way. It is especially good for Christians to know the teachings of each denomination.
Have you made a video that focuses on contrasting denomination claims on "Salvation" and who each faith says "is or is not saved" by merit of their belief (or lack of)?
(I'm curious if one could make a map of claims, and show where there are clusters of 'we're ok but ya'll aren't' or clusters of 'we're different but its okay' or nodes of 'yall are all goin to hell except us')
very good coverage, mostly quoting from the denomination's own documents
Thank you for this informative video. The Pacific School of Religion and The Graduate Theological Union hold a significant portion of the Archival records of this particular Christian Community.
There's nothing "Christian" about the MCC. God says they're an abomination, and He rejects them because they reject Him and His Holy Word. They will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Read Romans 1:18-32, 1st Cor. 6:9-10, and 1st Timothy 1:10 for God's perspective on homosexual sex and all lgbtq+ issues.
@@jamestrotter3162 No, that's wrong. God says nothing of the sort. I suggest you look deeper into the "clobber" verses you quote.
The Romans one, for example, says (starting at the start, not halfway through) that worshipping idols turns people against their proper nature. It then adds (at the end, which you left off) "But _you_ have done all these things".
I appreciate this coverage of so many denominations.
Thank you, Joshua🌹🌹🌹
You cover the most incoherent denominations with such professionalism and respect, truly a skill.
Good presentation.
MCC churches seem to vary a great deal depending on location and region. Many are similar to Evangelical churches, except they tend to have the Lord's Supper every Sunday, and often use vestments. Most clergy are aligned more with liberal Protestantism, but you also see some influence from Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement.
I give these folks credit they started their own church rather than stomping their feet and arguing that a mainline denomination accept them their practices and beliefs!
I'd honestly concur with that statement, not going where you're not wanted rather than forcing people to want you seems like a more reasonable approach. That being said, I can see why it would be easier for a lesbian couple or a trans person to go to an episcopal or United Methodist church that's already well established and willing to be welcoming to them than setting up a MCC church in their town and hoping and praying other LGBTQ people show up. It's harder to start something new and get it rolling than changing something that already exists, but from a biblical standpoint, the Gospel should change us, and not us change the Gospel.
but they didn't may normal church are now destroyed and ruined by them because they refuse to leave and insist YOU MUST ACCEPT THEM.
An exemplary presentation.
I went to seminary with a few students affiliated with the MCC. One significant challenge for the MCC today is their identity and mission as more denominations becoming affirming and inclusive of the LGBTQ community.
Please do a video about the Palmarian Catholic Church. Who's third pope resigned to marry and believe that Mary is present in the Eucharist
Please don't.
@@polemeros why not? Everyone needs to study heresies in order to recognize and combat them
@@HukiTohunga I agree
Catholic church is the most disgusting abomination since the serpent lied to Eve in the garden of eden.
Cool channel for an interested Atheist. Would love to see more on millennialism v not. Pre-tib v post. Etc. To "us" those theological debates are the "canon" arguments of the faithful, equivalent to Kirk v Picard in other motivated fan communities.
My father joined and Pastored in a Metropolitan church after he left the Baptist Church.
❤️ bless him
Did you ever go to their services? If so what was it like?
Thank you for your work
/\ Another comment from someone or other to SpaDinner gone Bermuda triangle on us.
@@thursoberwick1948 what are you talking about
@@spadinnerxylaphone2622 When you are in the main comments, there are three replies listed to your comment. Only two are able to be seen. It's happening a lot on here. Someone else has replied to you but YaChoob has decided that we're not allowed to see whatever was said.
Orwell
@@thursoberwick1948 ohhh that's weird.
This sounds like Unitarian Universalism Church.
It combines many ideas from different Faiths
Yeah ELCA or the Episcopal Church seem like better options for LGBT Christians. The statement on faith is a little wishy washy at the MCC.
And that's a problem. Unitarianism is disgusting. Just like the elca and the Roman Catholic church is disgusting too.
@@frogtownroad9104 We can talk about this church and that church but are you 100% sure that if you died today you would go to heaven?
Do you know Jesus Christ?
I am convinced that most people who call themselves "Christian" know religion instead of Jesus Christ. Or they have created their own God in their head. That is why we must make sure that we know the God of the bible and know that we are truly saved.
Lay religion, Christian culture, and even politics aside. Someone who truly loves you is reaching out to you not willing that you should perish (2 Peter3), but that you be saved from the price of your sins.
With that said, how do you deal with your sin? Yes you. How many times have you lied, lusted, or stolen? I'm guilty, what about you? I hope you feel convicted.
But if you're going to reject the free gift of salvation, you ought to think about where you are going after death.
Is this your mindset?
Luke 12:19
“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.”
Please please do not be this person that Jesus described here. I don't care how if you are in a ministry or even behind a pulpit. And their is no shame in getting saved.
Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You see there will be professing Christians that were not actually saved.
I want to help you.
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Because of God's holiness we cannot be in his presence as we are in our sin. No matter how righteous one may appear everyone has sinned and one sin can lead to hell, but there is a way out. We don't deserve it but God made a way that we may become the righteousness of God (Romans 5). I want you to have 100% assurance of salvation.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For WHOSOEVER shall CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED.
Here is the gospel straight and simple:
1. Truly acknowledge that you have sinned against a perfect God and you are worthy of hell that can only be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ
2. Believe that Jesus died for and covered all of your sins and rose again.
3. Say to God that Jesus Christ he is your saviour.
Please let me know. I am praying for you, today is the day of salvation.
2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
@@pianoplayer2260 You didn’t need all the Bible verses buddy. I believe in salvation but I’m not sure if my belief in salvation is in line with yours. When you got saved, did you feel like a good person? Do you feel like you’re a good person levitating above humanity due to your salvation? Guess what? That’s not Biblical. You’re a born sinner, you’re gonna die a sinner. You’ll have anger in your heart and lust in your head when you inevitably become worm food before God gives us new bodies and we go to paradise. Now, you were also made in the image of God so I don’t want you to believe the spirit of God isn’t within you, but I’d chill out thinking you’re great for getting saved. You’re not, you’re lucky. The only thing that doesn’t make you worthy of hell is grace.
@@frogtownroad9104 I am an atheist. And if I am in hell with @pianoplayer22, that is fine with me.
Mapalo movement, which denomination is it?
I'm not a native english speaker, I have an English question. In 5:45 it reads "transgender persons". Wouldn't the right way to say it be "transgender people"? Or is it some type of phraseology to give it a more "intimate" sense?
"persons" is sometimes used to make it clear that the writer is talking about multiple individuals rather than a single collective. The word is rarely used outside of legal documents and most English speakers always say "people".
@@Kwulhu thank you very much!
Being sensitive to matters of grammar, I wince when "people" is carelessly used as the plural of "person."
Examples: Three persons died in the car crash.
Fifteen thousand people attended the rock concert.
The term "people" refers to the collective group. Transgender people, in this case, would be referring to the total sum of transgender persons.
The term "persons" refers to individual members of a group. Transgender persons are thus a member of the group of transgender people.
Hope that answers your question.
@@fellowish And in African American and British usage, "folk" is sometimes a rough synonym for "people" in a generalized sense.
That is in an interesting group. The one closest to me shares a building with Unitarian Univeralists.
There's one that shares a church building with a UCC church which was my baptismal church.
Ok, diving into the third of your vids I have watched. Having an explanatory offering is helpful I hope.
I've never heard of the MCC. I looked up Eucharist, again because I'd never heard of it, still don't quite understand it. But I can say your vids are interesting and informative, even if I have to stop and look things up or jot them down to look up afterward.
Why can't women be/participate at the altar?
Men should not do that eucharist crap either.
The eucharist is a catholic thing and is such automatically a disgusting thing simply because it's catholic.
The Bible also forebids women to be pastors. Women should rejoice for not being allowed to do so because it's a huge responsibility with strict requirements and even most men don't meet those requirements.
As a man I definitely don't want to be a pastor.
However women are allowed to go out and witness to people.
Wether or not women are allowed to preach, I don't know so I won't answer that until scripture gives me the answer.
@@Mr-pn2eh you're saying they can do the act but not hold the title? So a woman could teach something but not hold the title of teacher? What's the significance of that?
@@partydean17 witnessing just means to talk. Plus women can hand out tracts
@@Mr-pn2eh I'm Orthodox, the Eucharist is not Catholic since we are the original Church that Jesus christ made, just read that Bible we set up that the Catholics and Luther took books out of, the Apostles themselves said "this is a hard teaching" (reffering to the Eucharist) along with the fact multitudes of Jesus's disciples left Him after this point
Honest question here: if I attend one of these churches and tell people there that God is holy and they should repent of their sins or perish, would I be accepted because of their principle of accepting diverse theological backgrounds, or banned because they discourage exclusive beliefs?
they will boot you out!
Please do a video on one of the various sedevacantist Catholic groups!
My friend almost became one. Thank goodness he left the catholic church altogether become a historicist protestant.
@@Mr-pn2eh a what protestant? the very fact that your username is 1611 is proof that your protestantism is not historic, but a modern innovation...
@@copeandseethe9279 Christians have been protesting the Catholic church as far back as when it was founded by Constantine in the 3rd century.
There were Christians who protested the catholic church before the reformation.
People such as the waldenses, the albagenses, the Hugonoets, the piedmonts, the Lollards (1300s and 1400s) just to name a few.
My name is 1611 because that is when the real king james Bible was published. I don't read that stupid 1769 KJV.
@@copeandseethe9279 a historicist protestant is one who knows that Jesus Christ fulfilled Daniel's 70 week prophecy 2000 years ago with his first coming.
@@Mr-pn2eh but your defining your church as just something opposed to Catholicism - not something as true in itself.
I have the same impression of this church as I do of the United Church of Canada.
Basically, “We believe whatever the world wants us to believe.”
I could picture them having a schism in the future over a few of their rules of sexual misconduct.
@@OnlyBugmenWantedHandles there are plenty of schizms all over Christianity. They are called denominations.
If expecting schisms is your outlook and expectation, you already have that in all the other churches who claim to know the truth, but only differently and very separately.
Any church run by humans will be influenced by its cultural context. If you live in this world, you have worldly beliefs.
The last slide on the sexual free for all says it all, although I'm not surprised.
These new age / progressive churches are so blind to the condemnation they are falling into. Jesus does not confirm to your beliefs or lifestyle. We are the sinners and are called to follow his path for an opportunity to reach salvation. Let's not fool ourselves that his love is unconditional and that we should not change our sinful ways. It doesn't matter if you are Jew or Gentile, the law applies equally. If you are human, you are a sinner and need to repent.
God is both love and order. Satan will fool you that God is ONLY love and that you can live wildly with no worries of the day of Judgement. Furthermore, Don't concern yourself of I or anyone judging you, focus on you not condemning yourself.
The Bible gives us rules for life. Let's not sit here thinking certain rules don't apply to us or twits them to fit our own agenda.
The world is God's creation. The fundamentalist belief that "the world" is something to fear is... interesting.
What happened to Troy Perry's former wife?
They divorced that's all.I see about it.
well done
I have an empathy with starting such a church but what Bible is being used? Or are the pages not agreed with just torn out? 🤔
Actually all the Bible is read including passages people find challenging regularly
Well these comments arent gonna be fun. Lets keep the comments civil y'all.
I looked at the comments section before I even watched the video. :)
no
And even if you don't, you won't see most of them. For example, there are three listed under here (other than my own) one can't be seen by me.
@@thursoberwick1948 That stuff really annoys me. Even I can't see the other comment.
Self-appointed tone police who play folksy with "y'all" annoy the hell out of me. Not civil? Too bad.
The denomination seems extreme & well thought out….. there is a lot to process/ unpack for anyone considering membership. But John 3:16 does say “whosoever”!
but they do not.
Satan knows and that doesn't change a thing for his fate.
@Stephanos77 inordinate affections, evil concupiscence, and ungodly lust aren't "love!"
Yes, homophobia's extremely ungodly. That's why I don't ridicule or judge LGBTQ people for being born the way God made them (yes, it's NOT a choice).
I was a member of an MCC congregation (one of larger ones, in fact) during its heyday in the 2000s. It was that time when the MCC denomination introduced the new (and current) branding scheme, the denomination was being reorganized from districts to regions (a region was somewhat akin to a diocese except its boundaries were drawn in such a way that would not be overly "U.S.-centric", so ours included the Pacific coast and parts of Mexico and Central America, in a rather gerrimandered fashion), and quite a few new churches were started. Around this time MCC tried to reinvent itself as a mainline progressive Protestant denomination "for everyone, with special outreach to the LGBTQ community." A number of new churches planted around this time were dually affiliated with UCC and MCC, or in one case, triplly with UCC, MCC, and Disciples.
With most other mainline Protestant churches in the U.S. and Canada becoming much like MCC on LGBTQ+ issues, MCC is in decline. Many congregations, including ones started in the 2000s, have folded as many people moved on to other denominations, and perhaps more importantly, Millennial and Gen Z LGBTQ+ people no longer find church attendance part of their lives or cultures, mirroring the general social trends. Interestingly, several former MCC pastors whom I know from this period have also transferred to other denominations such as United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, and Unitarian Universalist Association.
While this video this not cover the polity, MCC is generally speaking congregationalist. The denomination does not own or control local churches' assets (hence it is easy for them to disaffiliate if they want). The denomination does not have its own official seminary, but Pacific School of Religion (PSR) in Berkeley, California, seems to be a popular choice. Congregations are now grouped into what they call "networks" (formerly "regions" and before that, "districts"), and are overseen by Elders (but they are called Bishops in Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking countries of Latin America and in European Union).
Another distinctive that wasn't mentioned here is that communion happens every Sunday in all MCC congregations, and it is open communion. It is seen by most as purely symbolic.
The issue of disaffiliation and control of assets is not as you claim. In fact UFMCC is trying to get bigger slices of the assets of disaffiliating churches as more congregations leave due to the inequity over finances.
The new by-law authorising a bigger slice of the pie was put on hold last year subject to legal advice.
That's sad to think about because the MCC and its mission has been so important in so many peoples lives. Alot of LGBT spaces are closing down around the country, though, as there is a perceived greater social acceptance.
@@Magnulus76 probably becuase they don't have children.
I live in a town bout two hours out for Toronto and I really want to check out the MCC! I go to an Anglican Church in town and our Rev Canon is a married gay man. Come to think of it, the MCC here probably had a big role in making the Anglican Church of Canada more progressive. As a trans convert, I'm forever grateful for their work so that I can feel safe and welcome at church, no matter what city or town I'm in.
you are perfectly welcome in any church, but you have to Amend your life with God's world. Not yours. Celibate homosexual are welcome in the Catholic church for instance.
I attended a service at an MCC in my city, with my partner for support, as part of a journey in healing religious trauma. It was a very kind and welcoming space. Thank you so much for always maintaining such incredible professionalism in your videos; it means that everyone can watch them and educate themselves without bearing emotional discomfort in the process
It’s a great church. I go to the one in Toronto.
Me too!! ❤️❤️
As a Traditionalist Christian struggling with Homosexuality, there are two parts of how I feel, unconditional love and understanding of the LGBTQ+ Community, and rejection principles which I believe are not in full communion with Christ’s will for the church.
At least almost all of them look down on atheists, so at least that part is staying together.
@@jamesparson we shouldn't look down on atheists, sorry, not trying to virtue signal.
@@cadeshuford6837 I appreciate that.
@@cadeshuford6837bro that's literally basic common decency, good job getting there at least lol
I’ve had my ear to the ground on this issue for a while. It seems now that long-time MCC’s are converting to United Churches of Christ. The large gay “church” in Dallas is one example.
It does make sense that a church would feel like they'd benefit from being part of something larger and older like the UCC than stragglers on the fringes in the MCC, especially once you get to the far left of the Mainline where anything distinctive about how you worship is downplayed. I'd be far more surprised if a MCC sought to join the PCUSA or Reformed Church in America, which are liberal but also seek to at least maintain the appearance of a distinctive Calvinist tradition, while the UCC by virtue of it's congregational polity and being the union of various Calvinist and Armenian churches would encourage plurality and forward thinking
@@adamandsethdylantoo Many UCC churches are still Reformed, but more in the European Continental sense. The UCC, after all, does belong to an international fellowship of Reformed churches. I'd just say they are the most liberal of the Reformed churches, though.
Thank you for this very good video. I remember when the MCC was formed now over 50 years ago, and I feel about it now the way I did then: It is not my place (or anyone's, for that matter) to judge what they are doing. I can imagine that overall, the effect over the years has caused more comfort and benefit to a specific worship community than it has caused discomfort and harm, and for that, it is a good thing. Only God can truly answer the abundant questions that arise when worship communities such as this spring up. Again, only He knows, and can provide the correct answers, and in the meantime, it is our duty, as Christians, to pray for those souls and hope for the salvation of one and all.
People have no right to judge what God has not judged already, but Romans 1 says a lot about how God judges this issue.
Weak sauce answer and beliefs like that are why we are here. For God's sake we are the protestants most of our schisms involved literal wars and now you think we should sit on our hands? Especially for a group that taunts God with the sign of His promise not to Flood the earth again specifically because of people like them?
I'd bet all you hand sitters would be baying for blood if the SBC clarified unequally yoked meant other races again so be consistent
@@darthbigred22 Just for clarification, what are you replying to?
Those verses in Romans refer to the ancient custom of having sexual relations with temple prostitutes and not to loving same-sex relationships.
Christianity is truely diverse indeed.
What did the last guy reply to this? I can't see it
Protestantism is very diverse. Progressivism is even more diverse than Protestantism.
The proper concentrations of Christianity are to be found in Catholicism and Orthodoxy, give or take.
@@HolyKhaaaaan Do you want the truth? Do you want the truth that the Holy Ghost might be convicting you about?
This applies to Catholics and Orthodox.
If you have the guts think and pray about these things. God will not refuse a humble spirit.
You can quote church fathers all day and it won't mean a thing, you cannot argue the facts below.
Roman Catholics and Orthodox believe the bible......until you show them James 1:1 and compare James 2 with Revelation 14:9-12 which proves that James 2 DOES teach faith and work, but NOT for the body of Christ. This is because in the tribulation you must avoid the mark of the beast to be saved.
But Paul very clearly teaches works are separated from salvation atleast for the church.
Romans 4
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Extremely clear, but I realize you Catholics have heard James 2 so much you don't even get this passage.
And as far as other question you Catholics have to answer, there's plenty:
ruclips.net/video/vgwC9uYdabo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/oz990ugwmlA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/4A0w0DoYeew/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/rM0z0DL3lhc/видео.html
It's a religion whose followers take the clay out of The Potter's Hands and mold it into whatever they need it to be for them. The god of such a religion isn't worthy of worship.
Inborn sexual orientation (yes, it's NOT a choice) ISN'T a sin so God won't condemn or judge LGBTQ people for being born the way He made them.
We have several MCC churches in Atlanta. I think the Dallas church left because MCC became TOOOO liberal. They seem to be going down the same line as Universalist/Unitarian with various concept of who Jesus is... and some churches are Jesus centric and have left over this matter. There was even an off shoot which i cant recall today.
We have a MCC in Toronto I go too
They were very progressive from the very beginning. Jesus was never the focus. This church started because some homosexual felt like he should be able to sin without repentance with the church accepting that.
@@brendonpremkumar8207 There are several churches that do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. About Jesus... could be a question many of our churches could be asked.
@@Keonny77 Those churches are not Christian.
@@brendonpremkumar8207 that's your opinion. This is why we have so many denominations. There are people who would said you aren't a christian..or me or so and so. Only Jesus can say.
I didn't know about this church. I like their orthopraxy even if I kinda disagree on their doctrine. Well researched.
Unless they were saying the "orthodox" that took communion from them were mainline churches, I VERY much doubt that orthodox christians took communion from the MCC since it is strictly prohibited for them to do so
You may have convinced to change my membership to this branch of the Christian family. Thank you for this informative video!
Please don’t. The Episcopal Church and PCUSA both affirm LGBT people and definitively believe Christ is Lord. The MCC is wishy washy.
Luke, LISTEN TO ME. Many people just have religion, but does Jesus Christ know you.
Are you 100% sure that if you died today you would go to heaven?
Do you know Jesus Christ?
I am convinced that most people who call themselves "Christian" know religion instead of Jesus Christ. Or they have created their own God in their head. That is why we must make sure that we know the God of the bible and know that we are truly saved.
Lay religion, Christian culture, and even politics aside. Someone who truly loves you is reaching out to you not willing that you should perish (2 Peter3), but that you be saved from the price of your sins.
With that said, how do you deal with your sin? Yes you. How many times have you lied, lusted, or stolen? I'm guilty, what about you? I hope you feel convicted.
But if you're going to reject the free gift of salvation, you ought to think about where you are going after death.
Is this your mindset?
Luke 12:19
“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.”
Please please do not be this person that Jesus described here. I don't care how if you are in a ministry or even behind a pulpit. And their is no shame in getting saved.
Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You see there will be professing Christians that were not actually saved.
I want to help you.
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Because of God's holiness we cannot be in his presence as we are in our sin. No matter how righteous one may appear everyone has sinned and one sin can lead to hell, but there is a way out. We don't deserve it but God made a way that we may become the righteousness of God (Romans 5). I want you to have 100% assurance of salvation.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For WHOSOEVER shall CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED.
Here is the gospel straight and simple:
1. Truly acknowledge that you have sinned against a perfect God and you are worthy of hell that can only be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ
2. Believe that Jesus died for and covered all of your sins and rose again.
3. Say to God that Jesus Christ he is your saviour.
Please let me know. I am praying for you, today is the day of salvation.
2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
@@frogtownroad9104 Why would you join either? They're literally affirming mortal sin as acceptable. That's Luciferian.
@@RealAugustusAutumn Oh sweetie. You’re hilarious. Homosexuality isn’t a sin. Anyone who has ever done research more than the basic words on the page knows this. Context matters. Not everyone who writes anything on paper is a hypocrite, but Jesus said “the scribes are hypocrites”. You can apply context to that but not this? Okay.
Wishy washy? WTH? We are a global denomination that was founded by and for God's LGBTQ beloveds. We never had to beg for a place at the table. I know The Episcopal Church VERY well. Some congregations are great. Some have asked transgender congregants to leave. The Diocese of Florida just elected a bishop who would not conform to the Canons of The Episcopal Church on same sex marriage. OP, please make up your own mind and don't be swayed by those outside MCC who don't know us.
I’m a gay Catholic. I have my struggles haha but I don’t this this Church is for me, very interesting though! Thanks for the info!
Bi Orthodox here-yours is the same sentiment as mine. (:
I think I heard the Pope say gay people are born gay.
@@jmdsservantofgod8405 Sure? Some are born with pica, too. Is there something you’re trying to get across?
“I’m a good gay, I’m not proud of myself. Pick me heterosexuals. Pick me”
@@frogtownroad9104 Is there a sign-of-the-cross emoji yet? 🙄 Yikes.
This is a really good denomination. I hope the people there are exclusive and diverse.
I can confirm it's extremely diverse, not sure what you mean by exclusive though?
"No Talking About Us Without Us" is a philosophy the Church at large needs to adopt.
Can men get pregnant?
Hey if they're willing to talk about God as we understand him as well, they are certainly welcome to discuss with us.
@@KK-li1lw Yes
@@noahbarnhartandit2365 Many men look as if they are.
It's a very illogical slogan. There are many things which should be discussed which people should not be doing, e.g. murder.
1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him.
For all that is in the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world.
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
But in John 3:16 it says God so loved the world!…. He must have meant people. That pride of life thing is for rich people the rest of us struggle to make ends meet. Anyone lusting all the time is not busy enough….get a job you lazy bum!
Amen
Then I suggest you start doing the will of God.
I attend this church in Toronto Ontario
What's it like?
@@Maranville it’s a great church. It’s very welcoming
Join a Bible believing church.
@@sdubs no thank you
@@sdubsthou shall not judge lest ye be judged. Let thou without sin cast the first stone.
I want to learn from scripture. So I am studing the bible and go to a few select sites to futher my understanding of the scripture. Listening to this just reinforces my thoughts about brick and mortar churches, very few actually teach scripture. I pray for discernment. But this church is very very far apart from what I have discerned from scripture. As a matter of fact if I would run away from such teaching.
One thing's for sure, the church is not a building, it's people. And those people are sometimes in buildings, but they don't have to be to function as the church. Look at the book of Acts. Those who believe in Christ should be gathering together, in some fashion. Seek out those who share your sincere love of Scripture and commitment to Christ. I'll pray God guides you.
@@reepicheepsfriend thanks, I am a senior and most seniors become invisible. I stay To myself mostly these days and very rarely meet anyone new.
7:13 so many of their members are Jesus mythicists? Can you deny a more core belief than the existence of the historical person of Jesus? Good grief.
I find it odd whenever people affirm their own beliefs, quite regardless of whether they have any truth or not, based on how strongly they believe them.
I suspect it is an overreaction to the numerous contradicting so-called truths that each of the 30,000 different Protestant denominations each proclaimed as being universally true without compromise. Their response to being overly sure of everything is to not be sure of anything.
They are not denying the existence of anything at all. They are merely saying, that in the writings we have about Jesus, we cannot know how much of that corresponds to historical reality. Considering that they were written decades after his death, and likely by people who never met him, this is a reasonable position to take.
They can disagree about Christ or the sacraments or salvation all day long and that's ok. But you cannot reject gay marriage or you're out. Tells you what is really important to them.
@@dliessmgg Not for a Christian church.
@@dliessmgg Then they can theoretically believe Jesus has no role or existence.
Thank you for presenting this. I've been a member of MCC for 27 years and a pastor for 24. Some of the most beautiful experiences of God's Love have happened in these communities. And most of our churches do important ministry in the wider community: food pantries, shelters for homeless, AIDS ministries, refugee support, interfaith partnering, social justice work, and some in smaller rural communities or high risk countries serve as the only safe haven for rainbow people, families, and youth. Often, there is a great deal of healing needed by LGBTQ people, friends, family, children, and many straight people who have borne the brunt of religiousity masking prejudice. But Love heals, Christ heals, and Spirit goes ahead of us creating a Way where there seemed to be no way. And do not confuse the spectrum of beliefs quoted here with a lack of biblical rigor and literacy - our folks know the scriptures that are thrown at us better than anyone, have done our homework, and are clear in our interpretations and reasons for doing so. Spirit leads us as clearly as anyone. We take flack because we are not hypocritical in our frank discussions of sexual diversity, expression, genders, and relational diversity. Thank you again for this post.
@Admiral Nelson Do you? How should they be punished? Will you vote for people who what to implement that punishement?
@@jamesparson There’s a difference between morally wrong and legally wrong like cheating on you wife’s wrong but it’s not illegal. That being said I’m not a Christian so I don’t care what people do in there free time.
Luke 12:57 Jesus said “ why dont you judge for yourselves what is right?”……..I know this is out of context but you have wonder why the Son of God would use these words.
Fascinating. As a local leader for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I was at a training with one of the 12 Apostles and he was asked directly if LGBTQ+ would enter Heaven. His response was simple: "Christ's Grace is infinite and eternal. I do not know the answer to your question, but I do know that there is room in Heaven for all of God's children. ALL of them."
Beautiful.
A pastor that doesnt condemn sin isnt doing his job.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
@@theodorejohnson3459 If we followed the bible literally, we wouldn't have modern toilets.
@@owlman_ lol that's actually a new one for me I thought I've heard it all. I'm guessing levitican law against defecating where you live?
While it sounds accepting and loving, it betrays God's Word (excluding the Book of Mormon) which Jesus says "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Sin is a sickness and Jesus heals that sickness, but if we tell people you are ok as you are, we are not being faithful to God's Word and it makes Jesus work on the cross of no effect to them because they see no need to repent and turn from their sins. There is mercy available but people can forfeit that mercy by remaining in sin.
“Come, taste, and see”
☦️
Holy God, Holy Almighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us!
10:10 - Orthodox Churches? Color me skeptical.
There's a fair bit of Orthodox homosexuals, believe it or not.
I first learned about MCC in the movie Prayers for Bobby.
There's a good documentary called "Call me Troy" about the founder of the church. It's worth looking into. The MCC has a colorful history of its own.
Thats how I found my church! (By watching the documentary)
MCC are lovely people
Can a church be christian if it does not follow God in all ways.
People are flawed but yes, it's Christian.
I’m assuming this denomination doesn’t preach about Sodom and Gomorrah?
S&G was about hospitality. If Lot thought the men outside were gay why would he offer them his daughters? No they were thugs, rapists, evil men not gay. Sodom was a wild, rich city because of salt….anything goes mentally dominated city life.
The Hebrew word for "men" in the Sodom story ("anashim") means "people" coming from the related root word "anush" meaning "human," not necessarily exclusively males only, but Hebrew uses the male plural grammatically in order to describe a mixed-sex gathering of people, such as with "sons of God," "children of Israel" (Heb. "sons of Israel"), "men of Galilee" at the Acension, "men of Jerusalem" in Acts which all would have included females too. Only in the crowd in Sodom do the translators and most readers insist that this same word is exclusively male only, hence the assumption of homosexuality as the only or main sin, when in fact later in the same verse (Genesis 19:4) the singular Hebrew word "am" (as in "Am Israel" = "the people of Israel") is also used to describe PEOPLE (not only males) from every quarter of the city.
Abraham was previously told by God in Genesis 18 that the city did not have enough righteous people in it to save it, and that was before the specific event outside Lot's house.
There must have been some females in God's judgement of the city's unrighteousness and grievous sin and depravity, not solely a population of exclusively male homosexuals.
Why would Lot offer his two virgin daughters to a crowd of exclusively male homosexuals?!
The "people of the city" were collectively corrupt and depraved before God, otherwise God would have spared it on behalf of the righteous living in it, but instead it is likely that all manner of sins including sexual immorality had overtaken the population, such as voyeurism, incest, bestiality, orgies, gang rape and many other deviatiations, including homosexuality and lesbianism, but not exclusively. The frenzied mixed-sex crowd wished to molest the angelic visitors sexually if we use the word ANASHIM "men" (plural individuals) and the additional word AM (singular "people") to both mean "people" or " human beings" ANUSH that were cited in this Biblical story. At least if we are fair in understanding Hebrew male-oriented grammar using "men" to include BOTH SEXES we will see the story in a less narrow and misguided light that stirs up human judgementalism.
However, once a doctrine or theology is built on a poor rendering or understanding of the inrinsics of the original Hebrew grammar used in these texts, one can only expect the assumptive comments as above about "preaching about Sodom and Gomorrah" implying homosexuality, when a closer and more honest look at the text does not actually say that.
This does not negate other places where homosexuality is proscribed strongly in other Bible passages in both the Old and New Testaments, and therefore not a contrived " theory" to say the Bible doesn't mention homosexuality, when it does, but it does add historical accruacy and grammatical integrity to Genesis 19 which is often influenced by readers'/scholars' inner personal prejudices or assumptions. We should preach on Sodom, but with Biblical truth.
When a lie or error is repeated and spread often enough it often becomes accepted as truth, when in fact it is not. Such is the case of Sodom with Gentile Christians promoting a lie.
Romans 1:18-32
"Sodomy" and "sodomite" are derived from the Canaanite city of Sodom, whose destruction along with Gomorrah is related in Genesis 19. Most people ASSUME that homosexuality and perversion was the grounds for this divine retribution and that this is the reason that gay men have been branded "sodomites." However, the word itself, used as implying a sexual sin, does not appear until C.E. (A.D.) 395 in letters between Saint Jerome and a priest Amandus; additionally, the details of the act and the nature of it are not explained.
Interestingly enough, Jesus did not interpret the sin of Sodom as sexual. In fact, *Jesus says nothing specific about the act of homosexuality anywhere in the Gospels.* He does of course speak of sexual sins, but all of us, regardless of our sexual orientation, commit a few of these. So if the issue did not even rise to a level of modest concern to Jesus, then all should *celebrate what God Himself delighted in creating;* and not be reluctant to praise what He himself was also *pleased to create.*
A now growing consensus about sexual orientation is that it is primarily genetically determined, so gays and lesbians may not have any choice in the matter. Respectively then, there are two alternative *theological* positions that follow from the conservative Christian position: (1) If homosexuals are inherently evil, then that means that God created them such; or (2) more orthodox and acceptable is the view that *all* humans are created in the image of God and all that God creates is definitely good. Therefore, if God creates gays and lesbians the way there are, then God must *intend* that they are an integral part of the human community.
Science disproves the literal creation story and Adam and Eve.
Consider that Eve was made from Adam's rib. Eve would have had *exactly* the same DNA Adam did, therefore Eve would have been a man. *Looks like God made Adam and Steve after all.*
Since the Bible nowhere condemns, or even mentions, anal sex within the confines of marriage, it would appear that anal sex falls within the “mutual consent” principle (1 Corinthians 7:5). Whatever is done sexually should be fully agreed on between the husband and his wife. Neither husband nor wife should be coerced into doing something he/she is not absolutely comfortable with. If anal sex occurs within the confines of marriage, by mutual consent, then there is no clear biblical reason for declaring it to be sin.
*Is it your position then that the bible is nonsense?*
@@BeachsideHank No, I do not hold the position that the Bible is nonsense, but like your own conclusions I notice how some may interpret it differently, sometimes wielded as a weapon.
You are correct in that Sodomy and Sodomite as sexual terms do not appear as such within the pages of Scripture, but are extra-Biblical man-made constructions that many a Christian minister seems to love to condemn at the top of his tonsils with no clear origin, or Biblical precedent.
The book of Jude similarly to your points made only refers to Sodom in connection to ungodliness, not specifically homosexuality, and the same when Jesus refers to the days of Lot.
It is always implied and assumed in Christian teaching that the word Sodom equals "gay."
When people are indocrinated and closed-minded they will choose not to listen anyhow 😱
Wow this comment section is really bussin 😭
Thanks Martin Luther, very cool
Yes. Saved by grace and Faith in the blood of Jesus. Not our own righteous self.
@@richardsaintjohn8391 😂😂😂
By that logic, thanks Catholicism
@@richardsaintjohn8391 that's literally what Catholicism and Orthodoxy teach.
@@Katholikos78Have all Catholics universally throughout history been taught that there salvation is "not of works"? Or has some priests forgotten to preach that while doing nothing but creating lost religious people dying in their sins?
If Catholics really believe in Ephesians 2:8-10 then why is Luther such a significant heretic?
I never personally use the term "faith alone" because it is not exactly a direct quotation of scripture, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH not of works. In other words, by God's grace I can put my faith in Jesus Christ to save me from hell and no work I do is a part of my salvation.
I guarantee that there have been a large number of Catholics who never even knew anything about that.
"I never knew you."
I never knew there was a comment below this, because one was listed, and I couldn't see it.
So many Christian’s decry atheism but yet will attack a group of people who believe in God because they happen to be pro-LGBTQ. It always baffles me,just be happy that you can agree with this denomination on the existence of God.
I thought Christians had a single objective morality. Perhaps each denomination has their own objective morality.
@@jamesparson isn’t that how it is anywhere though? The fundamentals are the same which is love God,love people. All the other issues are just noise.
@@jamesparson Christians disagree alot on moral and ethical questions, going back hundreds of years . Sexuality is just the latest one people disagree on.
@@Magnulus76 Ah yes . Subjective morality
@@jamesparson I'm not making a value judgement, just saying that's the way things are.
It's so much easier to just be an atheist than do these mental gymnastics in order to justify heresy.
Ministers and laity in relationships could lead to trouble real quick.
And that's why there are strict safeguarding policies
I am conservative, but there are some very deep tendencies in this church that maybe should be included in all churches.
Well, one cment was listed under here but is not included in my feed.
A church that walks together, is tolerant of the failures of others to live the Gospel even well, that takes care of God's creation, and that seeks to free the oppressed is what every church should be.
The MCC got that much right. Not too much else, but considering most everyone else seems to have gotten that one wrong, they deserve a little respect.
Definitely their policy on what constitutes sexual misconduct. Everything they listed as misconduct should be noncontroversial. Even if you disagree with their theology.
@@reedermh They are wrong to encourage "group congress" or multiple "friends". These things are not healthy in a physical sense and can spread diseases.
🙄
Well, I certainly disagree with them, but also do enjoy the extreme variety of beliefs in the Protestant tradition.
it's chaotic but i'm not surprised these denominations all spring up in america
@@joshvarges9230 Not after as weak and effeminate as the message got since the 90s
That's part of the problem with modern Christianity, there shouldn't be so many denominations, unfortunately there is no way to fix this considering the centuries of corruption in certain denominations making this a problem that will likely continue to grow and expand for years to come.
Faith is in Jesus and all he is, all he did!
We are spirits having a human experience…… we get a shell ( body) to live in for maybe 80 years! God gets greater glory when the variety of bodies come to faith in Jesus! Failing is so easy for everyone but God’s Grace is available by faith in Jesus.
We are humans tho I wouldn't separate that identity away even eternally speaking it's important
So basically it's just like every other mainline denomination in America?
No.
Plus dog baptisms
No because mainline denoms still require certain practices. This one is more like an amalgamation of multiple denominations
Yep, just another one of the 30,000 Protestant religions
@Not David - I wonder how many here will get the reference?
So the beliefs of this church is everywhere and nowhere at the same time
As long as you hold hard-left social and political views, which are not negotiable, your theology is optional.
It's a highly congretionalist system, each MCC church establishes its own theology that the members of the congregation adhere to. The broader 'denomination' label is more about organizing these congregations, but not really about spreading a specific theology.
I love this church!
R u gay
Do you go there? What's it like?
It's wonderful!
So I go to one church (there are many)
It's extremely diverse. Most of the congregation are Ugandan lgbt asulym seekers, but there is a lot of neurodiversity in the church (dyspraxia, dyslexia, adhd, autism etc) this isn't surprising as lgbt+ people are disproportionately neurodiverse. The pastoral care is very good as it is trauma informed and there is a great deal of awareness around ableism and invisible disability etc. It is a poor church. It is passionate about activism in terms of human rights and climate change. They do a lot of work with lgbt asulym seekers and the homeless. They run a homelessness shelter. The Ugandan asulym seekers are predominantly Catholic although the church is Protestant. There is a great deal of diversity of belief in the church but it is very much a Christian church. It's a safe place and very loving, there is a lot of warmth there. It's chosen family, the queer community and church at it's best. The services are traditional I would say, to a large extent what you would expect from a Christian church service. The services are emotional and sacred
It's community. People go to worship God but also we support one another. I would say there is a great deal of vulnerability within the church. Many of us have survived a lot of trauma. We support one another personally and on our faith journeys. There is Bible study twice a week and we also get together to do social activities as a community outside of church. We attend protests together around human rights and have picnics and the like
Mostly I would say it is a safe place to be vulnerable and to be yourself where people are embraced. You can feel the presence of the Holy spirit there very strongly. That is frequently a emotional and powerful experience
I think it's a very beautiful place. I've never experienced anything else like it. I've been attending almost every Sunday for 5 years
It's family to me
I find the church leadership very inspiring personally and they model a lot of healthy things for me
Went to a mcc once and it was obviously just as fine as a mainline.mcc rocks,except the whole non monogamy,but if you are dating and ,seeing, other people aww well I guess to each his own.good reporting as usual.and yes you can be black,lesbian and progressive christian...ie me and my spouse.Jesus and the trinity rocks.Amen.
You can be a Christian who struggles with sin, such as same-sex attraction, but you cannot be a Christian if you *willfully* practice a sinful lifestyle.
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.”
Romans 6:14-17 KJV.
Please repent (change your mind) and allow Jesus Christ to set you free from these sins (setting free just means you will be stronger towards the temptation, even if you still struggle).
“No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, He will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.”
1 Corinthians 10:13 NIV.
Funny how my comment keeps getting taken down...
13:11 I don’t know how you read this part with a straight face. Wow.
Not gonna lie, I wondered the same. I burst out in giggles. Looked to see what the comments were like.
My jaw dropped!
There is diversity of belief within the church. The church respects everyone is on their own personal faith journey and their private life is their business and between them and God
Thank you for a very informative and fair handling of the MCC. For many of us, I guess the denomination is very broad, and some of the statements some what shocking. The beauty of the MCC story is that it has provided a haven for those often marginalized and rejected by the Church.
I have attended services in our local MCC. It was an interesting experience. It was also a loving and accepting congregation that worshipped with great joy. It was formed not as a Church but a group providing a safe haven for LGBT Christians to support one another.
Ministry to this community is sorely needed.
However, they seem to have fuzzy views of Jesus... and I think their attitude to, ahem, "group activities" is not something most folk can sympathise with. Can they define marriage either? I'm including SSM.
@@thursoberwick1948 When I think "WWJD?" the answer is clearly "Don't sympathize with the outcast and downtrodden" 🙄
In Canada who needs the MCC when you have The United Church of Canada, The Anglican Church of Canada, and The Presbyterian Church of Canada.
@@thursoberwick1948 I worked at a hotel they had a denominational meeting at. The amount of perversion was amazing. This is most definitely not a Christian church.
@@noahbarnhartandit2365 Do you think partipating in "group activities" (euphemisn) is being "outcast and downtrodden"? Because that is what I was talking about. I don't remember Jesus ever approving of "aw R. G.s" in the New Testament. Maybe I'm missing something. He told people to desist from that kind of thing. In fact he told them to cut their hands and eyes out if they looked at someone the wrong way (which many suggest is figurative hyperbole)
I also asked about their definition of marriage, and I included same sex narriage as part of that, not just M+W. As I understand it, Jesus' teachings were about keeping it within marriage of two people, not jumping whomever else you meet. MCC seems to have no conception of what marriage is, which is a bond between two people, and nor do you...
Anything goes 👍
"Grounded in God's radically inclusive love for all people..." they say. Yes, God is indeed Love; and radically so. Yet He is also absolute and perfect Righteousness and Holiness as well. To preach love as an attribute of God at the expense or exclusion of His Holiness, is to misrepresent Him. The idea that He is not really bothered all that much by sin because He is and exemplifies love, is quite mistaken. Words come to mind that "...the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions..."
God is supremely tolerant of evil, but not accepting of it. I don't think this is a distinction that most of modern culture, let alone homosexuals or fundamentalist Protestants, understand.
@@HolyKhaaaaan I would say He's not tolerant of evil whatsoever. That He does permit it to exist in time, so that His glory and ultimate purpose in redemption of sinners can happen, does not suggest tolerance. Patience perhaps, but not tolerance. Nails into Christ's body do not suggest tolerance; they suggest both absolute Holiness and perfect Love simultaneously, in the most violent yet beautiful moment for which everything exists, and for which He came. And what, pray tell, are "Fundamentalist Protestants" that they don't understand this? (asking for a friend) ;-)
3 responses listed under here, but only one is able to be read by me.
@@thursoberwick1948 That's been happening to me as well...not sure what's going on.
@@voyager7 I do. RUclips had a reboot recently. That's what's happening. It used to be you had to change the setting at the top of comments. Now what comes after comments is going "Bermuda Triangle" on us. I learnt a while back you have to avoid certain words.
Wonderful video. I hope you can do more videos on Progressive Christianity as well as my church, Unitarian universalist :)
@Johnny Rep Not wrong! Except that the MCC is more Christian than the UUs, who are hardly even theists. Just Lefty Social Justice with a churchy patina. I had a UU pastor friend who was warned against mentioning the G-word in sermons more than two or three times a year.
His deep breakdown of different Theisms was lit.
Unitarian Universalist isn’t a church. The three persons of the God head cannot be denied if you hope in eternal salvation.
Your not a christian and that's not a church
@@fancyphantom8103 Exactly.
The more denominations I learn about the more I love the Catholic Church
This is representative of certain currents in the Vatican. Frances is heading in this direction.
@@thursoberwick1948 yup.
Hardly a homogenous group. Y'all just keep theological differences under one hat.
@@StormiidaeBlogspot it’s a big hat though
@@StormiidaeBlogspot there's going to be heretics in just about every Church, unless you're a church of one person. At least there will never be a papally approved denomination based around buttfucking.
There are some standards around here, even if we never apply them.
I admire the way that you gave us the facts without judgement as to whether the denomination is good or bad. I definitely think it is a good thing that a church group is reaching out to the LGBT+ community. Regardless of what God really thinks about homosexual practice, everyone needs Jesus.
A church focused on the LGBT community though....that's like making a Christian church based on cheating on your spouse, the sermons would be the same but whenever possible the Preacher would say things like "love is love" it's absolutely ridiculous and antithetical to the core of the religion, I could understand wanting to help the Alphabet community in order to stop any prejudice or harassment against them but actively supporting sin or supporting a church that promotes sin is just foolish, might as well be an atheist if you care so little for the scripture.
@@edenromanov If there are a bunch of people who insist on cheating on their spouses, letting them know that Jesus loves them is still an improvement on atheism. I agree that the Bible has a number of verses that portray homosexual practice as sinful, but I disagree that sexuality is the core of Christianity. We definitely are to obey God in regard to that area of our life, but if people are having trouble obeying certain sexual teachings, I don't think they should just throw in the towel and become an atheist.
@@edenromanov "...might as well be an atheist if you care so little for the scripture."
I am atheist because people like you profess scriptural wisdom yet are the most ignorant of the lot.
Right, and they also don't reject any part of the Bible but try to understand it, in a different way person to person
American Religion flying abroad,what USA do we must do Babylon.
We should make a church for the lascivious people. We just need to interpret figuratively the bible when it strictly condemns this practice.
How does this church interpret this verse?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
The original Greek text describes the two behaviors as "malakoi" (some sources quote "malakee,") and "arsenokoitai." Although these are often translated by modern Bibles as "homosexual," we can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the Greek word "paiderasste." That was the standard term at the time for male homosexuals. We can conclude that he probably meant something different from persons who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior.
Paul was no God. He was Paul.
@@dliessmgg is this how the Metropolitan Church interprets it?
@@heidiluotolahti4305 who is saying that Paul was a god?
@@heidiluotolahti4305 The Holy Spirit spoke through Paul, his epistles are God's Word
Never thought I would learn about a church with stricter sexual conduct standards than biblical theology. Which is saying a lot when they have abandoned traditional teachings on sex and claim that the Bible is very important.
Thank you for going over this denomination I used to be a member of MCC so I’m now I go to a Catholic church where The parish is mostly gay though they’re open this may be shocking to many Christians I was agnostic at one point but still felt close to God before I return to Christ so MCC will always be home to me
This is an interesting group and I wonder what their services are like. I always knew I was LGBT, but I did a pretty good job of hiding it as a teen until about 15-16. The reaction from my childhood congregation made it crystal clear that they were not prepared to deal with that. (Biblical infallibility is a fragile thing indeed; it needs to be handled with care.)
I started attending the Episcopal Church and found my home there, since they were the only congregation that regarded me as an actual member of the church, instead of like I was invading or intruding on someone else’s. By the time I graduated, I made my way through adult catechesis and got the bishop to re-confirm me. I sent a letter to the evangelical Methodist church I was confirmed in as a teenager, asking them to remove me from the roster.
They asked why. I never responded - but if I did, I think I would direct them to the comments on this video.
Mad respect for you. I’m going through a similar situation with my church right now, being excluded for being both a woman and queer so wondering if I can stay or need to go somewhere else. I’m actually writing my masters thesis on same-sex relationships (I’m a masters in theology student), and it is appalling hearing some of the things LGBTQ people went through in the Church. Thanks for sharing your story. God bless you. :)
Stick with the Episcopal Church! They’re good people and believe in our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@frogtownroad9104 the episcopal is just Roman Catholic with married priests.
Real Christians read the AV1611 Bible in the comfort of their own homes.
@@Mr-pn2eh No true Scotsman fallacies. R/gatekeeping.
@@frogtownroad9104 I don't even know what that is. What does that have to do with this?
I he had delivered this biased no one would have blamed him.
But it's good to just get the facts.
people who prefer unbiased presentation would have blamed him.
Good grief. I saw MCC and thought what has McHenry County College done now?
???
@@mariannehavisham8323yes, exactly.
@@mariannehavisham8323yes, exactly. Not that anything MCC does would surprise me these days.
I don't agree with them, BUT better if they have their own communities and people are free to continue their faith unchanged.