Calculating Top of Climb and Top of Descent - SPC Day 27
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- Опубликовано: 26 янв 2021
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I hate when I see students neglect to calculate Top of Climb (TOC) and Top of Descent (TOD), so often we just put in where we’re going and press enter. Following the pink line may get you there, but do you have the skillset and information to fall back on if something happens?
Perfect timing for these videos Jason - I’m getting ready to take my check ride - your videos are VERY helpful! Thank you!
You’re welcome, my friend! You’ve got this!
I was never taught to calculate top of decent into my flight planning. Thank you very much for the lesson.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching, Gabriel!
This calculation has helped me every time I fly. It’s so important for my state of mind and a flight plan in control.
Thanks for tuning in Tim!
Nice work, man.
Have recently got back into the saddle after a long hiatus and have been watching a lot of videos to help get my head back in the game. This is the only video I've seen so far discussing Time to Climb/Descent calculations. I've struggled with this since I first started flying lo those many years ago.
Appreciate you posting this.
This was the video I definitely needed. For my cross country flight plan thanks Jason! 🛩
You’re welcome, my friend.
This has always stumped me a bit thx for the quick video! Simple and quick explanation 😁
Thanks for the great videos!
Written test on Groundhog Day and flying shortly after! I'll watch most of these multiple times!
Good luck with your test Jeff!
This is the first I've encountered TOD; thank you VERY much! These videos are great.
Glad you like them!
Jason, excellent instructional video! I likewise am preparing for my IFR check ride and my DPE requires a "hand" Nav Log. It's been a while since the PPL and this is a great tutorial.
Good stuff Jason. One comment I'll make. You mentioned calculating this the old fashioned way, which I think is important to maintain an understanding of it. Couple this with a comment you made in one of your earlier videos about the importance of good planning before a flight, and what I find you end up with is improved situational awareness which leads to greater safety and comfort while flying. Before flying, I still pull out the old cross country paper sheet, mark my checkpoints, and do all of the associated calculations, not because I have to (I can get this via Foreflight) but because I find it forces me to think thru planning in a more detailed manner. Then, when I get into the air, I feel like there are fewer surprises, or things to figure out/think about - and it's a great cross check on the technology in the cockpit. Some people look at this as overkill but for myself I find it important to my overall feeling of being prepared and feeling good about what I'm doing. Thanks for your videos, they are excellent and really making a difference in improving pilot safety (and help me get thru the dreary winter days here up North!).
Thanks for sharing Chuck! Good planning makes you a safer and more proficient pilot indeed!
perfect timing :D commercial checkride tomorrow thanks man your awesome
I watched an old video you did on this the other day. Im at the solo cross country phase in my flight training in Brookesville Fl. This really helps. Thanks
Glad we could help, Philip! Fly safe!
It usually averages out, so I believe most pilots ignore it, but it’s also worth considering the difference between your airspeed and ground speed will change regardless of the winds because on a descent at an angle you’re traveling a greater distance from point a to point, unlike when at cruise. So if you want to maintain a groundspeed during a descent your TAS will increase.
Love these videos.
I haven’t watched everyday but I’ve watched every episode. Thanks for the videos
Thanks for tuning in Luke!
Just been practicing this in prep for a navigation endorsement check ride soon. On the TOD I was told to plan down to the circuit height +500 for fly over. I got caught out on my last duel nav though. I flew higher than usual and didn't calculate the amount of time needed to get to the overfly height soon enough. Ended up having to descend at 1000fpm, which caused me to get distracted and I busted the overfly height. Lesson learned. 👍 Thanks for the great overview and all the SPC videos.
Great tip! Thanks for tuning in!
Hey Jason love the videos they helped me obtain my ppl. 500fpm climb and 500fpm decent will yield different air speeds.
Happy to hear that! Congratulations from all of us at MzeroA!
Throws me back to my initial flight training days. Haven't flown power in a few months since I've been learning how to fly gliders, where your TOD is when you release from the towplane
Sounds fun!!
I’m also working toward my check ride. Thanks to your Written Knowledge Test boot camp, I scored 93%. I will resume my subscription as I approach my check ride to do that boot camp. Really awesome stuff!
Congratulations! Keep us updated on the rest of your training!
PPL in November at a vintage age (retired). As mentioned in another comment, I was taught a 3 to 1 on the descent and slow the airspeed down. I liked it as a new pilot because it gave you a little more time to prep for your arrival. My DPE however, looked at it differently. He felt it was an opportunity to make up for the time you lost in the climb! I enjoyed the video and appreciate the manual method. At the very least you have an idea how your "amazing tool" is coming to its conclusion!
Thanks for sharing! Hope you enjoyed the video.
Thank you so much.
Great timing! I was just working on this.
Rock on!
Amazing video. Short and well explained. Bear in mind that in some cases, you may interrupt your climb due to an altitude restraint for explample departing from an airport under class B airspace. In this case you may only reach an initial altitude until you are able to continue your climb along the route out of the constraint.
Thanks for watching!
Nice. It is amazing to learn something new.
Glad we could help! Fly safe!
Interesting, instead of estimating a 500 ft/min descent, I use the rule of 3:1
3:1 rule of descent is that 3 nautical miles (5.6 km) of travel should be allowed for every 1,000 feet (300 m) of descent
That is what I was taught also during flight training.
I agree, the 3:1 rule is great for calculating descents. I also use Groundspeed times five to figure the approximate vertical speed required to meet the 3 degree gradient.
Almost caught up! I just posted a question about this on the MzeroA Nation page. After some studying the past few days and the help of this video I've had a lightbulb come on in my learning! I just didn't want to settle to let ForeFlight come up with the numbers for me. I want to know where and why the numbers are the way they are. This really just reinforced what I've learned the last few days and will really help me as I continue my IFR training! I will and am determined to finish all 31 days!
Hey Dan! Glad the series helped you out! Keep up the good work!
27 for 27! Enjoying the series. Thanks, Jason!
Thanks for joining us, Jonathan!
Thanks for the helpful video, I have been looking into interpolation as far as winds are concerned so for me it was a well timed video. It does leave me with a question or two though, my second question I believe would make a great video topic as I have yet to find one.
Firstly in this example you used the ground wind and the winds at 3000. But you are climbing to 4500. Should another interpolation be made after 3000 to cover the last 1500? Or is that pointless?
Second question. I asked a cfi about winds aloft interpolation accuracy na few weeks back and part of his answer was “ And do keep in mind the forecast is to get a general sense of winds and a reasonable estimate of time/speed/distance so you can plan for fuel, and the real calculations will take place in flight” I have not found a video covering corrections to calculations once underway. Would love some information on that subject. I know not really a question but anyway, thanks for all the videos you do
so helpful
Glad it was helpful!
In addition to figuring out when I will be at TOC, I alway look for a really good landmark to ensure that when I pass over it, I am where I hoped I'd be! Especially with TOD, it's great to have a physical landmark to know when to begin your descent.
That's a great idea, Marty! Thanks for sharing!
A more accurate way of getting your ground speed during a climb is if you go into your Aircrafts POH and look at the time, fuel, distance climb chart, you get the time and the distance and do distance divided by time x 60.
Example: I want to climb from sea level to 6500.
I look at my POH and see from 0 - 65 it’s 11 minutes and 16 miles. I do 16 divide by 11 x 60 = 87kts for your climb before account for wind.
Some POHs like my 1966 cherokee 180 doesn't have that chart (which I've used BTW on a 172). The cherokee POH only has a climb rate vs density altitude chart. It doesn't even give you the fuel burn.
@@iliasfaqir ahhh right ok I didn’t know that. Thank you!
I've made it this far! TOC and TOD: I needed a refresher for my Commercial Check Ride (hopefully coming soon).
You got this!
G, day MzeroA.com from Sydney, Australia.
Flight planning/TOC/TOD
*Firstly, I'm unsure if that is the industry abreviations for: top of climb and top of decent?
* I would be reaching for my E6B cardboard computer.
* I'm thinking of the average wind speed, the direction of wind affecting plane vector and the corrective "crab angle" to fly the direct vector.
* I'm thinking about the rate of climb, engine power, air density and temperature.
* I need to practice with a WAC and an E6B.
Thank you, sir
🇭🇲🌏
*
I just use Sporty's new E6B app on my iPhone... calculate Crosswind, Headwind, Tailwind in app to get Groundspeed. Then use Top of Descent to calculate the number of miles... Then in Foreflight, I use "Along Track offset" to insert the TOD or TOC. TOC from Ground to Cruise Altitude and TOD from Cruise altitude to TPA. Sad that with the Performance profile known, Foreflight cannot insert this "automagically" into the flight plan... Yeah, I know we need to do this old school as well... and for students reading this... get the manual way down cold (and carry backups that cover you if your technology fails - because it can and will at some point..) A good pilot not only is learning, a good pilot is using all available resources (including tools and automation). Do it manually until you have it cold and use technology to check your work...then when you start flying regularly after earning your certificate, you are more comfortable with using the technology in the cockpit. :-)
Thanks for the feedback, Robert! Totally agree that everyone should learn how to use an E6B manually!
Do you always use Vy as your descent speed as well? I descend at cruise speed and just pull power back enough to give me a 500 fpm descent.
If not cruise speed then I’ll slow to pattern speed during my descent, depending on where I’m going (towered, untowered, existing traffic, etc).
Hi Eric! Every aircraft is different. Typically the POH has guidance on time, speed, and distance required to descend. If you have any other questions please reach out to us at support@mzeroa.com. Fly safe!
I haven't gotten this far in training, so this is a bit confusing for me as to what the purpose is of knowing these numbers? If we know the winds at cruise altitude as reported and can still maintain our cruise speed and heading what are the (TOC/TOD) numbers for exactly? (Pardon the pun but I think this just went over my head). Sorry if this is a very basic and "no duh" seeming question/answer.
If you are flying vfr its good to know when you will reach cruise as this helps with fuel planning etc. TOD is important because you dont want to fall behind the plane because you started your dedcent too late. Also you dont want to start descent too early and fly low for extened periods of time. Having this info helps in many different applications.
@@philipstubbs7399 So this is more geared toward almost a cross country jog? Thanks for the informed response!
When will I get my aviation,artery book?
Hi Joseph! We are very excited to get Aviation Mastery to all of our pre-order members! Here is an update from Jason on the book and we he expects them to ship out!: vimeo.com/527480665/e6b20e496a
We are looking forward to sharing it with you!
Yes...amazing tools are available...but when they aren't this is good stuff
Very true!
27 4 27!
I have been flying my simulator so much lately, I actually have been computing when to start descent.
Great stuff! That's good practice! Fly safe!
This video is great! Would be awesome if he showed how to use the graphs from POH 😁
Thanks for the feedback! We do show how to use POH charts in our online ground school! Thanks for watching, fly safe!
What is top of climb?
27 for 27!
No use of e6b shown. Still lost :(
Still here!!!
Thanks for joining us, Marcus!
This month has literally flown by 27 for 27
That is awesome! Keep up the good work :)
Old guy airline Capt here; does anyone use an actual e6B anymore or are they relics of a past age?
Older e6b's are the way to go! Thanks for tuning in!
I’m so confused. I’m screwed on this check ride. Paid for your coarse too and no one to help or respond. Waste of money for someone like myself.
As a meteorologist I'll be using the model soundings and doing the math
Thanks for sharing!
Why descend at 80 knots? why not take advantage of the downhill flight and descend at a high airspeed than you had at cruise altitude? When your equipment fails you need to know how to do it yourself. Great video.
Hi James! Sorry for the late reply. There are different speeds you can use to descend. A lot of aircraft have a descent section in the POH that gives you the speed, fuel flow, time, etc to descend. If you have any other questions or need more clarification on this topic please reach out to us at support@mzeroa.com. Thanks for watching!
Watching this as I get ready to go get my aviation medical certificate! 27-27
Thanks for joining us, Jake!
You are starting out at 42 feet MSL so you need to subtract that from 4500 MSL
isn`t 85kts in 9 Min 12,75 NM ? NOT 10NM or was he just ishing ;) - maybe i am wrong
First out of the gate
27 of 27 down
Thanks for joining us, William!
27 for 27
Great Job!
Why are you always wearing two watches haha
Hi Dan! One watch is in Zulu time and one is in local time. Thanks for watching!
I just got a headache.
It gets easier with practice! You got this!
Liking because of the great video, unsubscribing because you're wearing two watches.