Preorder Aviation Mastery The Book - mzeroa.lpages.co/aviationmast... Rich of Peak? Lean of Peak? What’s the difference, and how do I know when I’m there?
I learned this Old School: lean until the engine stumbles, then rich until it runs smoothly. My plane has an engine monitor so I can lean precisely. Lycoming and Beechcraft say to run at peak or slightly rich of peak, so that's what I do. My typical EGT is 1420F in cruise.
Yes, that's typically how it's taught, but also because most training aircraft (the good ole 152s and 172s at most schools) don't have CHT or EGT gauges. So it is not possible to see things very precisely. Personally, I was taught to look at the tachometer and lean until you see a slight drop in RPM, and then turn the mixture knob 2 to 3 full turns to the right, giving you slightly ROP.
TBO = Time Between Overhauls. Working in the aerospace industry has made me hypersensitive to defining all acronyms ☺️ Thanks for making us safer. Cheers.
My wife and I have put 2000 hours on our Cirrus SR22 and Baron over a 33 month period running LOP👍🏼. So that is 18 cylinders for 2000 hours and they are all still in good health, mid 70’s compression, good borescope👍🏼. You are correct, Mike Busch has some great videos on this subject matter.
Yes, but that assumes proper engine monitoring instrumentation (EGT, CHT etc.), which I assume your aircraft have. Most training birds at flying clubs and flight schools, of 70's and 80's vintage, do not have the required instruments. In those situations, I would always go ROP, to avoid severe engine damage.
Dang that airplane looks good in this video. So good, I didn’t listen to your LOP and ROP sermon. I had to go back and watch it again. You’re blessed man.
Hey Jason, I am a student pilot in Texas, I just passed my written a few weeks ago and am now prepping for my check ride. The 172 that I fly does not gave an EGT gauge. How do you recommend leaning without the proper equipment?
Hello! Consult your aircraft's POH. Typically there is guidance on what is best for it. If you need any more help please reach out to us at support@mzeroa.com. Fly safe!
Jason, I'm flying a '76 Piper Warrior. Once my break-in period is complete I plan to run lean of peak. It's equipped with a JPI EDM 830, so like 23MZ, it has all the info in the world. Running LOP has gotten my CHT's from the high 380's at rich of peak to the low 300's with a 10 knot penalty but the low 7's in fuel consumption. Still cruising at 115ktas, so not bad!
When i was renting/training, my CFI says and my rule I've done is lean her to the point the RPMs don't go any further and then give 1-2 turns of the knob. so I'm more in the middle of the two. if i had to chose only one of the two, I'm going Rich.
This would be a great topic for inflight coffee one day. No way can this be covered in 5 or 10 minutes but is one of those topics no student pilot really ever understood at least I didn’t. I have the same engine monitors as you and would LOVE to see a video of how YOU use it. 28/28!
G, day MzeroA from Sydney, Australia. My opinion: * engine manufactures recommendation * adjust so CHT is within the normal operation indicated by the engine sensors and displayed on the gauge. * seek advice from pilots with the same engine: history of piston head damage. If I can use the analogy? As you now intercept the localizer on approach to the final of the MzeroA safer pilot program, " that's a nice look'n Cessna ya have"! 🍟
28 2 28! Our old 172's (Military versions T-41Cs) don't have the gauges to determine EGT. We have to lean on the ground (6180 ft) to a nice smooth running engine. Once flying we lean for fuel flow then full rich for landing.
I love this subject. Full disclosure, I am a strict LOP guy and my engine loves it as well. With that said, run your engine where you want to run it. I am not into telling people how to do things with their personal airplanes. However, do the research and make informed choices for yourself and your airplane. The differences in speed and fuel burn for my Mooney in the ROP/LOP realm is a 3% loss in speed versus ROP and burning 20% less fuel than ROP. I can live with that and the cooler, smoother, cleaner engine.
Thanks. Me. Rich of peak - but I monitor cyl hd temp. and adjust to keep temp. in range described by POH. Usually some richer than “just rich of peak”.
Well, I am in a club that tells me what to do. ROP is the club rule (50-100 degrees] We have a ppt file to look at with all sorts of valve images so we know what happens when we don't
Reminds me of when my father swapped a 160hp in his Skyhawk for a 180hp.. Flap mods installed too. Once checked out on the ground, we sat and watched as dad went up for a minimum of 1hr flight and was told "Go full power on takeoff, and leave it there for an hour minimum.. Then you can slow down and land, and we'll look it over..." Umm What?? LOL So he climbed and circled the airport at about 3000 (in case of failure) for a bit over an hour. Just making high altitude patterns. To your point, they are meant to be run hard... Cars/Boats etc.?? Yeah, be gentle.. Airplane engines are NOT built the same... :-)
The point of running "hard" is to seat the rings. There has to be sufficient cylinder pressure to press the rings against the cylinder wall, so high power and rich mixtures are necessary. Otherwise, there will be massive amounts of blow by past the rings causing cylinder wall glazing, and combustion gasses going into the crankcase.
Personally, I would stick with ROP, unless I have an engine monitor which gives precise information (EGT, CHT gauges....). LOP has to be done with precision, or else one could damage their engine!!
Peak causes high cylinder temperatures, but very good power. If you can keep CHT's down in a healthy range, there's an argument to run at peak. It's just a challenge for air cooled engines.
Are you a 1 watch wearer, or are you 2 watch wearers. Let me know in the comments below. And explain why you can't calculate hourly differences of 1 hour by heart... Or do you have a lean watch and a ritch watch?
Continental. lean to 380 degrees cylinder head temp 65% power,. Lycoming 400 degrees, engine 65% of power. max engine life? that's what the mfg states.
I learned this Old School: lean until the engine stumbles, then rich until it runs smoothly. My plane has an engine monitor so I can lean precisely. Lycoming and Beechcraft say to run at peak or slightly rich of peak, so that's what I do. My typical EGT is 1420F in cruise.
Learned the same thing. Lean it until you hear it struggle and then give a little back.
@@dsyncd555 that is the way I was teach in 1985.
Yes, that's typically how it's taught, but also because most training aircraft (the good ole 152s and 172s at most schools) don't have CHT or EGT gauges. So it is not possible to see things very precisely. Personally, I was taught to look at the tachometer and lean until you see a slight drop in RPM, and then turn the mixture knob 2 to 3 full turns to the right, giving you slightly ROP.
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching!
I've been wanting this subject! Thank you Jason, amazing as always my friend.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching!
Looks like I’ll have to start reading my POH to see if I’m rich or lean of peak! Thank you Jason for making this video 👍
Glad to have helped, Grant!
awesome video! Thank you Jason!
TBO = Time Between Overhauls. Working in the aerospace industry has made me hypersensitive to defining all acronyms ☺️ Thanks for making us safer. Cheers.
Thanks for sharing!
Great video. Thank you sir!
Glad you liked it!
I used to be a lean of peak man.... Now it’s Rotax all the way!
What would you recommend in 6 seaters they would do 200 knots?
My wife and I have put 2000 hours on our Cirrus SR22 and Baron over a 33 month period running LOP👍🏼. So that is 18 cylinders for 2000 hours and they are all still in good health, mid 70’s compression, good borescope👍🏼. You are correct, Mike Busch has some great videos on this subject matter.
Yes, but that assumes proper engine monitoring instrumentation (EGT, CHT etc.), which I assume your aircraft have. Most training birds at flying clubs and flight schools, of 70's and 80's vintage, do not have the required instruments. In those situations, I would always go ROP, to avoid severe engine damage.
@@747-pilot ..yep, In the video, 1 minute and 10 seconds in, Jason spends a minute explaining this.👍🏼
Thanks for sharing Gary!
Dang that airplane looks good in this video. So good, I didn’t listen to your LOP and ROP sermon. I had to go back and watch it again. You’re blessed man.
Thanks for watching, Tim!
Hey Jason, I am a student pilot in Texas, I just passed my written a few weeks ago and am now prepping for my check ride. The 172 that I fly does not gave an EGT gauge. How do you recommend leaning without the proper equipment?
Hello! Consult your aircraft's POH. Typically there is guidance on what is best for it. If you need any more help please reach out to us at support@mzeroa.com. Fly safe!
Jason, I'm flying a '76 Piper Warrior. Once my break-in period is complete I plan to run lean of peak. It's equipped with a JPI EDM 830, so like 23MZ, it has all the info in the world. Running LOP has gotten my CHT's from the high 380's at rich of peak to the low 300's with a 10 knot penalty but the low 7's in fuel consumption. Still cruising at 115ktas, so not bad!
Thanks for sharing, James! Fly safe!
Loving my daily dose of SPC 28/28
I’m a ROP guy but I don’t have the engine gauges to confidently run LOP..
Hey Jonathan, appreciate you watching them all!
When i was renting/training, my CFI says and my rule I've done is lean her to the point the RPMs don't go any further and then give 1-2 turns of the knob. so I'm more in the middle of the two. if i had to chose only one of the two, I'm going Rich.
Thanks for sharing!
This would be a great topic for inflight coffee one day. No way can this be covered in 5 or 10 minutes but is one of those topics no student pilot really ever understood at least I didn’t. I have the same engine monitors as you and would LOVE to see a video of how YOU use it. 28/28!
Thanks for the feedback, Jason!
Why are you wearing two watches? Thanks for the videos
TBO is yet another wives-tale, that only increases the cost of general aviation.
Opening music is awesome
Thanks!
LOP for my Bonanza - IO-520BB - mostly flown in cruise type flying
Thanks for sharing, Bill!
Lean after getting over 3,500 is what my CFI says. I generally don't get there...yet. 😁 I'll have to check the POH before I get into my XCs.
LOP is different than "leaning" after 3500AGL
Okay...what am I missing then?
Thanks for sharing, Jim! Always consult the POH
@@johnwinter9707 MSL, not AGL
LOP on most of the continentals, ROP on the turbo Lycoming I’ve been flying
Appreciate you watching!
I am a rich of peak EGT kind-a-guy. Because I was told it is better for the engine to lean till engine roughness then enrich till it smooths out.
Thanks for sharing, Michael!
G, day MzeroA from Sydney, Australia.
My opinion:
* engine manufactures recommendation
* adjust so CHT is within the normal operation indicated by the engine sensors and displayed on the gauge.
* seek advice from pilots with the same engine: history of piston head damage.
If I can use the analogy? As you now intercept the localizer on approach to the final of the MzeroA safer pilot program, " that's a nice look'n Cessna ya have"!
🍟
Great suggestions! Thanks for watching!
28 2 28!
Our old 172's (Military versions T-41Cs) don't have the gauges to determine EGT. We have to lean on the ground (6180 ft) to a nice smooth running engine. Once flying we lean for fuel flow then full rich for landing.
Thanks for sharing!
I love this subject. Full disclosure, I am a strict LOP guy and my engine loves it as well. With that said, run your engine where you want to run it. I am not into telling people how to do things with their personal airplanes. However, do the research and make informed choices for yourself and your airplane.
The differences in speed and fuel burn for my Mooney in the ROP/LOP realm is a 3% loss in speed versus ROP and burning 20% less fuel than ROP. I can live with that and the cooler, smoother, cleaner engine.
Thanks for sharing, Andrew!
Thanks. Me. Rich of peak - but I monitor cyl hd temp. and adjust to keep temp. in range described by POH. Usually some richer than “just rich of peak”.
Have you tried running LOP? I've had very impressive results in CHT reduction by running LOP and a 30% fuel savings. I'm doing it with an O-320 E3D
Thanks for sharing!
ROP ... '65 C182H with carbureted Continental O-470-R engine. If it were fuel injected then LOP.
Thanks for sharing, Jose!
FADEC!
Haha!
ROP because POH.
Lean of peak
Thanks for watching, James!
28 for 28. LOP/ROP - based on the engine manufacturer and Mike Busch/Savvy Aviation, Inc.
Thanks for joining us, John!
Well, I am in a club that tells me what to do. ROP is the club rule (50-100 degrees] We have a ppt file to look at with all sorts of valve images so we know what happens when we don't
Thanks for sharing, Jim!
Running ROP at high altitude is a big waste of power and fuel .
Reminds me of when my father swapped a 160hp in his Skyhawk for a 180hp.. Flap mods installed too.
Once checked out on the ground, we sat and watched as dad went up for a minimum of 1hr flight and was told "Go full power on takeoff, and leave it there for an hour minimum.. Then you can slow down and land, and we'll look it over..." Umm What?? LOL
So he climbed and circled the airport at about 3000 (in case of failure) for a bit over an hour. Just making high altitude patterns.
To your point, they are meant to be run hard... Cars/Boats etc.?? Yeah, be gentle.. Airplane engines are NOT built the same... :-)
New engines or redone engines need to run harder in their beginning life
The point of running "hard" is to seat the rings. There has to be sufficient cylinder pressure to press the rings against the cylinder wall, so high power and rich mixtures are necessary. Otherwise, there will be massive amounts of blow by past the rings causing cylinder wall glazing, and combustion gasses going into the crankcase.
Good point! Thanks for watching.
I try to follow POH, RPM and Manifold pressure.
Thanks for sharing!
Personally, I would stick with ROP, unless I have an engine monitor which gives precise information (EGT, CHT gauges....). LOP has to be done with precision, or else one could damage their engine!!
Thanks for the insight!
28 for 28!
Thanks for joining us, James!
What about peak
Peak causes high cylinder temperatures, but very good power. If you can keep CHT's down in a healthy range, there's an argument to run at peak. It's just a challenge for air cooled engines.
Rich of Peak - Continental... POH
Thanks for sharing, Rod!
LOP economy with engine monitor EDM 900
Thanks for sharing, Mark!
Rich of peak
Thanks for sharing, Robert!
Whatever engine likes better 😅
Very true! Thanks for watching!
RoP in a Dakota
Thanks for sharing, Joseph!
Are you a 1 watch wearer, or are you 2 watch wearers. Let me know in the comments below. And explain why you can't calculate hourly differences of 1 hour by heart... Or do you have a lean watch and a ritch watch?
Rich of peak! Engine runs cooler.
Thanks for watching!
CHTs are highest at 50 ROP
28 for 28
Thanks for watching them all!
ROP
Thanks for sharing, Andy!
Continental. lean to 380 degrees cylinder head temp 65% power,. Lycoming 400 degrees, engine 65% of power. max engine life? that's what the mfg states.
Thanks for sharing, Lucas!
Lop
god damit, this is why lean the mixture, not HOW, wasted my time
Enough with the into's, get to the pointif the video !!!