Omniscient Reader VS. Solo Leveling! Which Is Better?

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  • Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
  • These are two of the biggest names in the manhwa industry, but which reigns supreme?
    Support me here: / samuek607 so I can upload higher quality videos more consistently!
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    Like and Subscribe if you enjoyed, comment down below if you didn't, criticism helps me grow.
    Chapters:
    00:00 Intro
    00:59 Art
    01:35 Characters
    02:58 Enjoyability
    04:14 Fights
    05:46 Impact
    07:12 Plot
    08:40 Storytelling/Verdict
    #webtoon #review #manhwa
  • КиноКино

Комментарии • 131

  • @apersonkazoo
    @apersonkazoo Месяц назад +40

    Enjoyability?
    Orv made me cry so darn hard (the novel’s ending)

    • @ChozenIam-ok6wo
      @ChozenIam-ok6wo Месяц назад +3

      49:51

    • @apersonkazoo
      @apersonkazoo Месяц назад +2

      @@ChozenIam-ok6wo BRUH STOP IT

    • @Galsical
      @Galsical Месяц назад +3

      @@ChozenIam-ok6wo bro triggered my orv depression

  • @sirhawk705
    @sirhawk705 5 месяцев назад +113

    Solo Leveling is basically the Dragon Ball of Manwha. Its hype its iconic but the story ain't all that.
    Omniscient reader is like Attack on Titan or One Piece with the character development, world building, and the plot twists etc...

    • @Yogirisolosfiction
      @Yogirisolosfiction 4 месяца назад +6

      W

    • @laskurtanceixixii
      @laskurtanceixixii 3 месяца назад +8

      I Get what you mean but Dragon Ball is really one of the best, I don't think SL really is

    • @Yogirisolosfiction
      @Yogirisolosfiction 3 месяца назад +6

      @@laskurtanceixixii Dragon Ball is not that good but it surely is better than solo leveling.

    • @laskurtanceixixii
      @laskurtanceixixii 3 месяца назад +9

      @@Yogirisolosfiction if Dragln ball is not that good, SL is ass

    • @Hazel564
      @Hazel564 Месяц назад +8

      @@laskurtanceixixii i mean SL is indeed ass you can find 20000 manhwa with the same plot as solo leveling

  • @adamle1067
    @adamle1067 Месяц назад +11

    Every ORV reader i ever met would defend it with their lives, I have not met any but i would do anything for this story

  • @shubham2342
    @shubham2342 6 месяцев назад +36

    ORV Is just way too better than solo leveling

  • @jayd.doubledubs
    @jayd.doubledubs 6 месяцев назад +65

    ORV's my pick purely because I've never read Solo Leveling

    • @gloryameawhule-ajoku6281
      @gloryameawhule-ajoku6281 6 месяцев назад

      Try reading it

    • @WillimSidis
      @WillimSidis 6 месяцев назад +2

      bruh

    • @innerpeacefindings671
      @innerpeacefindings671 6 месяцев назад +1

      Huh 😅

    • @aimeewadznah5363
      @aimeewadznah5363 4 месяца назад

      🙃

    • @MHYT-xl9oq
      @MHYT-xl9oq 3 месяца назад +3

      Solo levelling is good but Omniscient readers viewpoint is Peak
      I was searching for solo levelling replacement the I found Omniscient readers viewpoint first I read manhwa but manhwa is still ongoing and it's so good that I can't wait for updates that why i found it's Novel started reading from the start again and now I finished Orv and i can only say that if u read Orv you'll be 49% amazement and 51% Angst 😂 you'll understand if you read it so Again in My opinion Solo levelling is good But Omniscient readers viewpoint is peak you won't find Novel like that

  • @lockskelington314
    @lockskelington314 6 месяцев назад +143

    Omniscient Reader! Is the Clear winner! Kim Dokja fights for every victory he gets and they all feel earned where Solo Leveling is just another OP protagonist who always wins!

    • @thewillofd4417
      @thewillofd4417 5 месяцев назад +7

      The reason I enjoy solo leveling is mainly because it’s finished and also just that the first like 130 chapters are a very very fun ride and moves at an addicting pace but at a certain point it falls off hard for me but anyway my point here is a question, should I start Omniscient Reader? I haven’t started Omniscient Reader simply because I’ve heard it’s not even close to being over but it also seems like a series I’d love so what do you think?

    • @lockskelington314
      @lockskelington314 5 месяцев назад +7

      @@thewillofd4417 You could always read the online webnovel. Its worth the read.
      But be sure to find the version without APW because they really messed up the story.
      TLDR Woke Translator changed things to be more "culturally accurate" and changed Next to everything about it.

    • @A_Wandering_Fanatic
      @A_Wandering_Fanatic 2 месяца назад

      @@lockskelington314 I think you mean Rainbow Turtle, noy A_Passing_Wanderer.
      APW had originally translated the first 16 chapters of Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint before learning that RT was taking over the translation and therefore dropping it. These chapters can be found here. Later, however, they were asked to once again take over from where RainbowTurtle left off, presumably by Webnovel, and made the following post regarding the matter:
      Hi, everyone. Some news: I've been asked to take over the Omni Reader from rainbowturtle on Webnovel. I've only begun TLing it recently, so I'm not that far into it, however. I'll try to get it out ASAP, but well, I gotta catch up 300 or so chapters I neglected to read so it might take a bit of time.
      If you know the history between this novel and I, then well, you could say that it has come back home (figuratively speaking, obvs) albeit one whole year later.

    • @lockskelington314
      @lockskelington314 2 месяца назад

      @@A_Wandering_Fanatic No. It was fine when Rainbow Turtle translated perfectly fine then APW changed EVERYTHING!! They are a terrible person and made it completely unreadable for all English speakers.

    • @A_Wandering_Fanatic
      @A_Wandering_Fanatic 2 месяца назад +1

      @@lockskelington314 Then why did you say "But be sure to find the version with APW because they really messed up the story." when you dont want them ro read A_P_W's verson?

  • @manumudgal5776
    @manumudgal5776 6 месяцев назад +18

    Have read both, at least 100 chapters of webtoon. ORV is definately the winner.

  • @justsomeguywithamustache2901
    @justsomeguywithamustache2901 6 месяцев назад +101

    Let's break it down
    Complexity-orv
    Well written-orv
    Side characters-orv
    Pacing-orv
    Sticking to the source material-orv
    Protagonist-orv
    Plot-orv
    World building-orv
    Power systems-orv
    Artsyle-solo leveling
    ORV is the clear winner😂😂

    • @xtentiong.f2537
      @xtentiong.f2537 6 месяцев назад +4

      The Solo Leveling Light novel clears.

    • @justsomeguywithamustache2901
      @justsomeguywithamustache2901 6 месяцев назад +40

      @@xtentiong.f2537 lord of mysteries, omniscient reader's viewpoint, second life ranker, and other light novels clear solo leveling, it ain't a masterpiece my guy, keep coping🤷‍♂️

    • @xtentiong.f2537
      @xtentiong.f2537 6 месяцев назад +8

      @@justsomeguywithamustache2901 never said it was a Masterpiece the SL light Novel is actually Leagues better than the Manwha and in my humble opinion a far better read than ORV

    • @Univorn1863
      @Univorn1863 6 месяцев назад +25

      ​@@xtentiong.f2537bro 😭😭 did u even read the orv light novel, how is sl better in light novel terms? being faced off as manhwas gives solo leveling a handicap, if anything

    • @aimeewadznah5363
      @aimeewadznah5363 6 месяцев назад +6

      ​@@xtentiong.f2537 i suggest you read the novel first, but it's up to you to choose which one is the best

  • @Creepsandwicheater
    @Creepsandwicheater Месяц назад +11

    Legit think solo leveling is trash, so I am giving it to omniscient reader by default. The fights in solo leveling felt way to artificial to me despite the good choreography, watching the anime its pretty clear the mc is gonna suffer until he basically 1 shots it or the universe turns the difficulty down.

  • @michahojwa8132
    @michahojwa8132 Месяц назад +5

    we meet in August - it's gonna be only Omniscient reader in all categories.

  • @christianna5297
    @christianna5297 6 месяцев назад +22

    Solo leveling is enjoyable to read (both art and story are amazing) but...i choose Omniscient reader viewpoint. Slow start at the beginning, but it gets more interesting as you read. I like how the story shows progress for all the characters.😊

  • @stardeluxe103
    @stardeluxe103 6 месяцев назад +27

    Wait Omniscient Reader is getting an anime?!

    • @elizabethllenn1067
      @elizabethllenn1067 6 месяцев назад

      No :(

    • @stardeluxe103
      @stardeluxe103 6 месяцев назад +4

      @@elizabethllenn1067 Oh Damn it would be cool to see it get an anime in the future. Especially when a Live action movie has been announced for 2025

    • @samuek607
      @samuek607  6 месяцев назад +13

      I believe it was announced last year, but haven't heard anything since. If they went back on it, I'm not aware

    • @stardeluxe103
      @stardeluxe103 6 месяцев назад +3

      ​@samuek607 No you're right there was a reliable leaker that confirmed it's in production.

    • @lusse2
      @lusse2 6 месяцев назад

      Yes!!

  • @CoderClimber
    @CoderClimber 6 месяцев назад +13

    As a story overall Solo Leveling is overrated, it mainly win in artwork especially action scene + pacing
    Meanwhile character development, world building, storyline, plot, etc, are weak
    It was good initially when MC struggle, get the power, get Igris, but afterwards it is relatively linear
    There is no real "fear" or "struggle" faced by MC afterwards

    • @carlososler7024
      @carlososler7024 6 месяцев назад

      The story is okay as it was portrayed to be in its premise, SL never tried to be more than a fan weak to strong MMO RPG dungeon style story.
      And he does struggle at the end, and even died at one point, he doesn't "easily" win like it is a walk in the park either.

  • @jeycii6143
    @jeycii6143 3 месяца назад +27

    My friend whom i recommended ORV read it until ch 100 and told me "its basically the same as solo leveling".
    I have read both to the end and i can wholeheartedly say: Solo Leveling doesnt hold a candle to Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint...
    EVERYTHING in ORV is SO MUCH better: Characters, Power Systems, World Building, Story Telling, Flow, Fight Scenes, Atmosphere...
    SL has barley anything to tell. Its basically just some guy solo running a whole game while enslaving all enemies he is defeating. Its bland. The only interesting part about it was the secrets about the "system" and the endfight against the other monarchs who were hyped up so much (and ended really disappointing imo)
    The thing that is carrying SL would be the art.. and thats not the achievements of SL, but mostly Redice Studio...
    So yea the reason why im ranting a bit, is because ORV is offering SO MUCH MORE than SL and saying its "similar" or "on at least the same level" is honestly laughable to me...
    Its like comparing the master piece that is One piece to attack on titan. yea sure, AoT is good, but not THAT good and wayyyy overhyped for what its worth...
    So if you REALLY want to read something that will touch your heart, go and read Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint, seriously...

    • @A_Wandering_Fanatic
      @A_Wandering_Fanatic 2 месяца назад +9

      How does it feel to have a friend who has eyes but cannot see Mount Tai?

    • @samuek607
      @samuek607  2 месяца назад +7

      @A_Wandering_Fanatic did you find me from the Cultivation video? 👀

    • @jeycii6143
      @jeycii6143 2 месяца назад +1

      @@A_Wandering_Fanatic its suffering... *dead*

    • @anapple6912
      @anapple6912 Месяц назад

      @@samuek607 yeah

    • @adamle1067
      @adamle1067 Месяц назад +1

      You are taking a really hot takes and i agree with all of them

  • @kindasupersonic7114
    @kindasupersonic7114 6 месяцев назад +31

    hmm, i dont know if its really fair to compare the two, both very different story concepts and both very different character mentalities as far as the core group of characters .. I like them both very much ORV focus are a group of characters working together while Solo is exactly that, focusing on 1 singular character with smaller supporting characters to add dashes of flavor here and there.

    • @abdqs853
      @abdqs853 Месяц назад +3

      Dude it's just badly written. The MC is such bland cardboard cut out that he puts Kirito to shame(yes by this i mean Kirito is a better character) he quite really has no personality.

  • @castironpan7967
    @castironpan7967 Месяц назад +2

    Im apparently a rare one only having read solo leveling but i do acknowledge its pretty straightforward. Its there for the fun and like Ken said, its like the junk food of anime. You know exactly what its gonna taste like but its too good to not.

  • @ValkRota
    @ValkRota 6 месяцев назад +12

    ORV and Solo Levelling are great reads as manwhas. As you said while Solo Levelling is a great read, hype and intoxicating to read, unable to tear your eyes away from the pages it does fall short because it's not made to be the greatest ever. Solo Levelling is great because it focuses on making a fun OP character in a fun world without making it bullshit in terms of stakes or character treatment.
    On the other hand ORV is primarily a story about it's characters, about it's world, when compared to the novels that they came from the difference is night and day in terms of everything between the two, and as well while Solo Levelling is complete ORV is nowhere near done, assuming it continues to stick to the full story.
    Comparing them at this point gives Solo Levelling more leverage in terms of its story and impact than it deserves in a comparison as to put it in a rough perspective ORV is only a fourth of the way through its story. While it's unlikely that its visuals in anything aside from the highpoints will come close to matching Solo Levelling as in the same point in the run time Sung Jinwoo as of the 45th chapter (roughly a quarter of the way through the story) in that chapter becomes the monarch of shadows.
    Otherwise great video, well done Ken-chan without being able to have a script due to the crunch week.

  • @shahrizatjailan4123
    @shahrizatjailan4123 Месяц назад +2

    ORV all the way. Not that I disliked Solo Leveling, but I feel that the characters in ORV are all given more character depth and believable personalities comparatively, and are not just there to make the main character(s) look good. And I feel that Dokja as the main character is probably one of the best-written of all the manhwas that I've read. He's not perfect and has his flaws; but we all can relate to him and the bases of his decisions as he desperately tries to get his entire team of companions to survive all the almost impossible scenarios against insurmountable odds. In Solo Leveling, you couldn't really feel the stakes as Jinwoo works almost exclusively with his Shadows as a necromancer. There is less opportunity to build up the side characters outside of his drive to level up and clear dungeons or gates especially in the earlier episodes. Personally, as I appreciate human relationship aspects in the stories I read, ORV feels more "human" to me despite the otherworldly setting in which ORV was written

  • @THEADVISOR-OneFromBelowAbyss
    @THEADVISOR-OneFromBelowAbyss 6 месяцев назад +4

    Have you done the world after the fall, if you have can i get the punk to the video And if you have not would you consider covering it

    • @samuek607
      @samuek607  6 месяцев назад +2

      I've actually read that, but never made a video on it. I want to touch up some of the rushed videos I put out this last week, and I've made too many Webtoon videos consecutively, so it might take a while, but I could get around to it

  • @Louis-uq2jc
    @Louis-uq2jc 6 месяцев назад

    I would say these 2 and TBATE are probably the best 3. Although you could argue Legend of the Northern Blade as well.

  • @omniscientcommenter3271
    @omniscientcommenter3271 22 дня назад +1

    Ngl chief Omniscient reader Beats Solo levelling by a landslide in every aspect.I just finished reading Ch 208 and man oh man was it AMAZING meanwhile solo levelling was just a nice read in just for the hype

  • @innerpeacefindings671
    @innerpeacefindings671 6 месяцев назад +2

    Both is good in they own way.

  • @MHYT-xl9oq
    @MHYT-xl9oq 3 месяца назад +2

    Solo levelling is good but Omniscient readers viewpoint is Peak
    I was searching for solo levelling replacement the I found Omniscient readers viewpoint first I read manhwa but manhwa is still ongoing and it's so good that I can't wait for updates that why i found it's Novel started reading from the start again and now I finished Orv and i can only say that if u read Orv you'll be 49% amazement and 51% Angst 😂 you'll understand if you read it so Again in My opinion Solo levelling is good But Omniscient readers viewpoint is peak you won't find Novel like that

  • @Mr_Kiev_jolly
    @Mr_Kiev_jolly 6 месяцев назад +3

    ORV take the win bcs the story is goat 🐐 i know i might hate this but i read solo leveling the only good it solo leveling is fighting bcs solo leveling it's just same other than manhwa where mc so op always win

  • @dragfang3723
    @dragfang3723 4 месяца назад +7

    Solo Leveling is not really that special people just give it praise and the hype for it is for nothing more than the fights, visual art and nothing in depth or big deal

  • @Pheryos
    @Pheryos 6 месяцев назад +35

    Solo leveling is just a lucky manhwa that was picked up by redice studios
    and people actually got into it cuz of its choreogrophy
    but omniscient reader is basically the best even the novel

    • @carlososler7024
      @carlososler7024 6 месяцев назад +2

      A lot of manhwa were adapted by that studio, even before SL and they never blow up.
      Even ORV is adapted by them and it's still a marginal series that nobody talk about on his own.

    • @A_Wandering_Fanatic
      @A_Wandering_Fanatic 2 месяца назад +5

      @@carlososler7024 ORV i literally one of the most popular ongoing manhwa, dude.

    • @carlososler7024
      @carlososler7024 2 месяца назад

      @@A_Wandering_Fanatic Only in the manhwa community sphere, nobody knows that series outside of that community.

    • @A_Wandering_Fanatic
      @A_Wandering_Fanatic 2 месяца назад +1

      @@carlososler7024 The novel has consistently been one of the most popular asian webnovels on both Korean and foreign websites. You just haven't seen much people talk about it because you dont loo at whenre its famous bruh

    • @Kk.........000tcdtuoj
      @Kk.........000tcdtuoj Месяц назад +4

      ​@@carlososler7024 and that's becouse it is the novel that made everyone like orv. People were reading the god danm novel before it was adapted to webtoon.
      I myself didn't know there was a manwha for it.
      But solo leveling got its name from the manwha and it got most of the fan following after anime adaptation.

  • @anangelsdiaries
    @anangelsdiaries Месяц назад +1

    I didn't watch the video yet, if the conclusion is anything other than ORV, Imma be mad.
    SL should be called mid-leveling lmao. JK (not)
    SL was a great power fantasy, and it was fun. Probably one of the hypest in that area. But the story after him getting Igris (and even before tbh), was always the same. One trick pony.
    I did finish the webtoon and the conclusion was satisfying. But for many reasons it does not score above a 7 for me.
    ORV is different, and stomps SL on pretty much everything except maybe art and hype (which are arguable.) Depends of how it concludes (and Imma have to read the webnovel at some point), but as it's going it's in that 8-9 range for me.

  • @catholicfemininity2126
    @catholicfemininity2126 Месяц назад

    Solo leveling really caught my attention in the beginning but then the story just forgets about all the other characters... it feels like real life, you see people... and then sometimes never again or rarely...........but I don't want to read about real life, I want fiction. lmao xD

  • @Pheryos
    @Pheryos 6 месяцев назад +13

    Omniscient reader for the win

    • @NarutoHokageX.LuffyPirateKing
      @NarutoHokageX.LuffyPirateKing 6 месяцев назад

      Not really many manhwa are great

    • @Pheryos
      @Pheryos 6 месяцев назад +4

      @@NarutoHokageX.LuffyPirateKing wth your username i don't think you would know a masterpiece of a manhwa even if you saw one but undoubtably omniscient reader novel is he greatest and byfar the greatest novel

    • @mickaelberte5144
      @mickaelberte5144 5 месяцев назад +1

      ​@@Pheryosstop to overhype it

    • @Pheryos
      @Pheryos 5 месяцев назад +4

      @@mickaelberte5144 first fix yo english
      second solo leveling is mid compared to orv as its story is rushed and is only an eyecandy literally nothing else the art is engaging and the pacing is good nothing else meanwhile the story of omniscient reader is like a comparing a dimensional rift to a human when compared with solo leveling just so you know that orv has great world building adding constellations who are mythological beings who are in the narrarative and also very meta

    • @deusex17kkfkdklsl19
      @deusex17kkfkdklsl19 2 месяца назад

      ​@@Pheryos this still mid in the end

  • @MrRobot-0
    @MrRobot-0 25 дней назад

    To me it's the condencending snob to the brailess jock comparation. Both suck in diferent ways.

  • @asimplemanwithbigduck3949
    @asimplemanwithbigduck3949 6 месяцев назад

    Great vid! Brother read Infinite leveling up at murim and also the greatest estate developer

  • @eldontanyx2622
    @eldontanyx2622 19 часов назад

    Omniscient reader viewpoint

  • @catholicfemininity2126
    @catholicfemininity2126 Месяц назад

    Omniscient reader imo is superior to Solo leveling except the fights and the art work I think it's tied, they both get way better as the story goes on... but in terms of color I think solo leveling is prettier, ORV uses more realistic color scheme.

  • @anapple6912
    @anapple6912 Месяц назад

    i dont like either, i find them boring (i didnt read solo leveling but heard of what it was about atleast anime version- still have no interest in reading it) omniscient reader imo is better, just because atleast it has a story to go behind not only that but it seems to have been well thought about. solo leveling, from what i have heard is all about the action basically sore loser gets a cheat and becomes better. its a boring repeated premise thats apparent in every school bullying revenge manhwa that ever existed.

  • @GHANI_FAIZAN_7897
    @GHANI_FAIZAN_7897 5 месяцев назад

    Solo leveling manhwa art is the winner but in my opinion is orv novel illustration is the winner. I know its manhwa battle not korean novel battle

  • @joshuaanoruo973
    @joshuaanoruo973 Месяц назад

    I feel ORV started trying to be too deep and profound in later parts

  • @ruruku77
    @ruruku77 6 месяцев назад

    Read both but I didn’t finished ORV, I find it boring and repetitive 😂 when it comes to character development ORV is better though Solo Leveling is predictable who always wins I like Solo Leveling more as the fights are always exciting,, much more powerful and very exciting action fighting scenes, while ORV are more on side story, its just boring for me😢 I didn’t have that have a patience to finished it.

  • @GhostboyEms420
    @GhostboyEms420 5 месяцев назад

    Tbate > both

    • @BedwarsIsBad
      @BedwarsIsBad 3 месяца назад

      Idk since i didn't read it, im not sure about orv but prolly ok with sl. If you don't mind me telling some manhwa which are like orv it would be nice and thank you.

    • @cryophoenix6114
      @cryophoenix6114 3 месяца назад +1

      Ehhhh I can't say for the novels, but the mahwha kinda went downhill imo. The beginning was really good but after the timeskip and going to the magic school, it became more generic. I hear that they leave a lot of stuff in the novel out of the manwha, so maybe it's a lot better novel wise. I dislike Tess as a character too. Introduced as a damsel in distress, which is fine since she was a kid, but then became one again when they were older. She's not interesting story wise or character wise either. She just drags down the story. She's the Asuna of TBATE.
      But even if the novel for TBATE is better than the manwha, there's a reasons ORV's manwha and especially the novel are considered to be at the very top.

    • @Galsical
      @Galsical Месяц назад +1

      orv solos tbate mid

  • @darkren88
    @darkren88 6 месяцев назад

    TBATE >>>>>> ORV! facts!

    • @darkren88
      @darkren88 6 месяцев назад

      specially Book 8 and 9!

    • @Yogirisolosfiction
      @Yogirisolosfiction 5 месяцев назад +2

      @@darkren88 its your opinion then.imo mushoku tensei>> tbate

    • @Galsical
      @Galsical Месяц назад

      orv >> tbate any day

    • @darkren88
      @darkren88 Месяц назад

      @@Galsical TBATE >>>> ORV ANYDAY. STORY WISE. PLOT WISE. EXECUTION WISE. tbate politics is top notch! BOOK 9 10 AND 11. UNMATCHED!

  • @NarutoHokageX.LuffyPirateKing
    @NarutoHokageX.LuffyPirateKing 6 месяцев назад

    Solo leveling 💯👑

    • @sukha1130.
      @sukha1130. 2 месяца назад +2

      No orv is much better since it has easy story line and u can't predict that kdj is going to win or not but solo leveling is predictable that sj will win and there is not much of character development but in orv u can see it
      😊

    • @Galsical
      @Galsical Месяц назад +1

      glazing is crazy

  • @hhehdh3876
    @hhehdh3876 6 месяцев назад +4

    to be honest they both pretty suck. solo leveling after few dozen chapters its just him winning with little or no effort every battle. and the Omniscient reader is fucking boring for me with all the stupid fucking games

    • @janggodanxd4696
      @janggodanxd4696 6 месяцев назад +13

      the first one i mostly agree with but there IS change in solo levelling and the second criticism on orv is jst completely subjective rather than being an actual problem

    • @janggodanxd4696
      @janggodanxd4696 6 месяцев назад

      by change I mean things change up a bit so he doesn't win with no effort or in the same way every time

    • @xtentiong.f2537
      @xtentiong.f2537 6 месяцев назад

      I see it the same way.

    • @Galsical
      @Galsical Месяц назад +1

      that's your bias towards orv but SL is yeah it's garbage