Just learned about this. This concept alone got me to mid-gold. I use back heavy with chunli right when they wake up at the wall and it’s super effective
"Meaty" is just the lingo that stuck. It describes how it feels/looks when they land. In certain games where some moves have TONS of active frames and you can play with timing, it gets really silly haha. Like landing Ken's cr.HP when it reaches the top of his head as opposed to landing it normally. Some people even consider slow fireballs that hit an opponent from behind on wakeup meaties. Depends on the situation.
The most annoying thing about Meaty's as a newcomer is literally the fact it's called Meaty. It makes it so confusing. Eventually I thought it just meant because you were supposed to hit them with a 'meaty' heavy attack on wakeup, not just any attack
I always kind of knew what 'meaty' meant when it comes to fighting games but never stopped to think why its called that. I can only imagine noobs thinking 'How do I throw meat?' like its Minecraft or something.
coming from Guilty Gear Strive where my main had meaties with 7 or 8 active frames. I was wondering how I was gonna adjust to the lower active frames in SF6. I didn't really know about setups to make meaty timings consistent. Very informative! Also very useful info about reading the frame meter to craft your own meaty setups.
To hit meaty is to hit with the last active frame of an attack. Which (in a lot of cases) adds more frame advantage to the move in question. If blocked it opens up unique modes of pressure, on hit/counter hit new combo routes are unlocked. "Meaty" probably refers to how hefty the attack feels for both you and the opponent.
exactly. ex: cammy crHP has 4 active frames. it is +1 on block and +7 on hit assuming it hits immediately (the first active frame.) on the last active frame it is +4 on block and +10 on hit
I don’t really understand the active meaties part, specifically with the setup at 6:53. You do a Heavy DP, dash, and press ST. MP meaty. ST.MP is 5 frames, you are +6 when you dash, and you are +5 after connecting the ST.MP meaty. But it also worked when all you did was a sweep and timed your ST.MP. So what is the point of the setup if it still worked without it?And would the setup still work if you were +4 after the dash instead of +6?
The setup makes it consistent, so you don't have to eyeball the timing, which is actually fairly difficult. If I were +4 after dashing, the setup would give me a normal meaty (in the sense that it would beat wakeup buttons), but not the extra frame advantage of the active meaty (since i'm not hitting on later active frames).
It would be cool if they had modes where you limit your moves to learn the concepts one at a time. Only using crmk no jumps so you have to use footsies then one where you can jump fireball or dp only
6:23 Question: what is the logic behind getting extra advantage when your hit connects later in the active frames? I get that it works like that but it doesn’t make sense why. Btw, another great guide Mir, thank you!
Frame advantage/disadvantage on block/hit is just the result of the recovery of your move lasting less/more long than the blockstun/hitstun inflicted on the opponent. If you hit with a later active frame, your recovery starts at the same time, but the opponent's blockstun starts (and therefore ends) however many frames later.
Think of it this way, When you hit someone with an attack there is a set amount of time they are stunned for, but if you hit with that same attack later than usual, then your character recovers a little faster, because your attack is going to finish faster while still stunning for the same amount of time.
@@I_recommend_suicide @VesperArcade I see, I see… so that means that when you hit on the first active frame, the remaining active frames have to elapse before you start recovering, making the recovery frames consistent. But when you hit on later frames (the later the better I’m guessing), the remaining active frames are reduced, thus making the recovery start earlier, resulting in more frame advantage since the opponent still has to go through his own full recovery. Thank you both for clarifying that!
I'm really finding that pressing buttons on wake-up is a poor option in SF6. With drive rush you can get hit by a meaty from a lot farther away than you'd otherwise think, especially if the move used from drive rush is naturally forward moving. This is a really helpful guide though because I still see a lot of people waking up with buttons.
There's plenty of reasons to wakeup with buttons, especially to counter bad oki setups or people going for delayed blockstrings, throw baits and shimmies (to blow up your delay tech), or committed to block a reversal - however it is true that people tend to misuse this option and often just mash without rime or reason, which can be a big risk. As always proper defense is all about correctly cycling your options
Can we get a video about how to do proper pressure? I find that a lot of times I lose out to people just mashing jab after blocking and I lose out on opportunities to get in more damage.
Thank you so much for this, there's only one thing I don't understand much. When doing reversal safe setups, what do I need to look for to know I'm safe? Or is it just try and error against different characters? Just wondering if there's numbers in the frame data I should look for
You want to compare how long your move is going to be out vs the startup of your opponent's reversal. In the case I explained in the video, with Ken's c.lp, since the entire move is 14f total, you need to be at least +3 to beat Kimberly's 12f reversal (which means it's going to be out for only 11f after Kimberly can act, so you recover 1f before the super hits you). You can use the same math with different moves and situations to figure out what works and what doesn't, or simple trial and error
@@VesperArcade nice. It really can be consistent if you use the setup. Also thanks for answering my question, and thanks for sharing some great info in your video
Mir, why are you trying to stop mashing? Mashing is the future of the FGC and it will never be stopped.😠 Daigo, Momochi and even Punk all mash on wakeup.
Can anyone give good tips how to tackle combo onslaught if you are on ground and waking up. DP, ex dp, super, or low p/k dont work if your opponent is ken,cammy, kim etc timing combos on you?
I NEED to know why I am getting hit by a "meaty" by every scrub under the sun in this game!!! This NEVER happened so often in V. Is that the difference, what he said about recovery and back recovery having the same timing. Was it like that in V?
in SFV, back recovery was 5 frames slower than recovering in place (you also had the choice of staying on the ground), so you could change the timing a little bit and that did mess up some oki setups
A grab is slower than your fastest button (they are 5 frames instead of 4 frames). They also lose to attacks if they get hit on the same frame (in case you mistime your meaty). Aside from that, they behave exactly like waking up with any normal attack
They are called meaties because there was some boxing game in which the technique was invented. In this particular game, I think it was an exploit or something, but essentially, the button used in that scenario looked like a piece of meat
this is a ken video and even then you got the part about marisa wrong and this is why people scream she is OP. If you don't understand how the match goes then you can't explain anything Scutum is NOT armored low unless in OD so ANY low will punish her unless in OD.
@@csauce22 Depends on the play style. cause you can use gladius as a reversal as well. On wake up honestly she really has no good defensives against throws. If you are waking up on marisa the standard cr. jab is strong and fast. However to varying levels you can do wake up with specials. scutum is the fastest to wake with then gladius then Quadriga. You can do phalax but I think it's risky I have had problems using this in wake up.
I just played a juri player and all he did was constantly kept attacking me until i got in corner and he burnt my meter out just by me blocking the attacks. Nothing i could do to get out. Oh and when he did his super he got oki so i couldnt even get out. What a joke game
@@sky-oq5mrhis long run cancel combos are hard but that’s about it, I’ve been playing everyday since launch with deejay and I’m at plat 5 (been playing mostly casuals tbh) but got Ken at plat 2 after a week or something, I’ve never played fighting games properly until now (tried to get decent at mk11) and Ken feels and is one of the easiest characters to do well with, he’s not brain dead or anything but s tier for sure
@@heroicsquirrel3195 Ken doesn't have massive damage. He takes a lot of execution and platinum is the begining rank. For the competitive side of things. Say that at master.
I mean you can just play the game and mash buttons. That's fine too until you reach a certain rank where they know this stuff. It's a game, have fun, it's not that serious.
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Just learned about this. This concept alone got me to mid-gold. I use back heavy with chunli right when they wake up at the wall and it’s super effective
That move is a really good meaty cuz it was a lot of active frames and beats a lot of other moves
Last few days I've learned so much from this channel!!!
This is an excellent tutorial, how to react on wake up is something that most player's have a lot of difficulty with.
hey just wanted to let a note of appreciation to not vesper, you do amazing content my dude!
"Meaty" is just the lingo that stuck. It describes how it feels/looks when they land. In certain games where some moves have TONS of active frames and you can play with timing, it gets really silly haha. Like landing Ken's cr.HP when it reaches the top of his head as opposed to landing it normally. Some people even consider slow fireballs that hit an opponent from behind on wakeup meaties. Depends on the situation.
Thanks Mir! Another amazing guide.
Thank you so much for these guides.
The most annoying thing about Meaty's as a newcomer is literally the fact it's called Meaty. It makes it so confusing. Eventually I thought it just meant because you were supposed to hit them with a 'meaty' heavy attack on wakeup, not just any attack
I always kind of knew what 'meaty' meant when it comes to fighting games but never stopped to think why its called that. I can only imagine noobs thinking 'How do I throw meat?' like its Minecraft or something.
coming from Guilty Gear Strive where my main had meaties with 7 or 8 active frames. I was wondering how I was gonna adjust to the lower active frames in SF6. I didn't really know about setups to make meaty timings consistent. Very informative!
Also very useful info about reading the frame meter to craft your own meaty setups.
The fact im plat 3 and didnt know this is crazy. I was trying to figure out in replays on why is my opponent always plus when I get up.
For the intermediocre player that I am, this is like rain before spring.
My guess is hitting someone with the "meaty" part of a move refers to the active frames and/or providing + frames.
To hit meaty is to hit with the last active frame of an attack. Which (in a lot of cases) adds more frame advantage to the move in question. If blocked it opens up unique modes of pressure, on hit/counter hit new combo routes are unlocked. "Meaty" probably refers to how hefty the attack feels for both you and the opponent.
exactly.
ex: cammy crHP has 4 active frames. it is +1 on block and +7 on hit assuming it hits immediately (the first active frame.) on the last active frame it is +4 on block and +10 on hit
I don’t really understand the active meaties part, specifically with the setup at 6:53. You do a Heavy DP, dash, and press ST. MP meaty. ST.MP is 5 frames, you are +6 when you dash, and you are +5 after connecting the ST.MP meaty. But it also worked when all you did was a sweep and timed your ST.MP. So what is the point of the setup if it still worked without it?And would the setup still work if you were +4 after the dash instead of +6?
The setup makes it consistent, so you don't have to eyeball the timing, which is actually fairly difficult. If I were +4 after dashing, the setup would give me a normal meaty (in the sense that it would beat wakeup buttons), but not the extra frame advantage of the active meaty (since i'm not hitting on later active frames).
@@mir2266ahhh okay I see. Thanks for clearing that up! :)
They’re called “meaty” because your opponent has no choice but to “eat” them
You mean “meat” them
No it is meaty
What kind of meat? 😲
@@jamesw5713 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I thought it was called meaty because you "meet" their wake up with an attack
Is there a way to set up the bot to do a fuzzy option and see if any moves beat it as a meaty?
How I’ve gotten this far in my fighting game career without learning this is beyond me
There's always something new to learn!
"i'm glad you asked!" Gdamnit 🤣
There needs to be a SFU with beginner and intermediate courses because this is A LOT of info!
It would be cool if they had modes where you limit your moves to learn the concepts one at a time. Only using crmk no jumps so you have to use footsies then one where you can jump fireball or dp only
@@remylebeau34 that should definitely be something to be included in a future update.
When is the Mir comprehensive Guile guide?
6:23 Question: what is the logic behind getting extra advantage when your hit connects later in the active frames? I get that it works like that but it doesn’t make sense why.
Btw, another great guide Mir, thank you!
Frame advantage/disadvantage on block/hit is just the result of the recovery of your move lasting less/more long than the blockstun/hitstun inflicted on the opponent. If you hit with a later active frame, your recovery starts at the same time, but the opponent's blockstun starts (and therefore ends) however many frames later.
Think of it this way, When you hit someone with an attack there is a set amount of time they are stunned for, but if you hit with that same attack later than usual, then your character recovers a little faster, because your attack is going to finish faster while still stunning for the same amount of time.
@@I_recommend_suicide @VesperArcade
I see, I see… so that means that when you hit on the first active frame, the remaining active frames have to elapse before you start recovering, making the recovery frames consistent. But when you hit on later frames (the later the better I’m guessing), the remaining active frames are reduced, thus making the recovery start earlier, resulting in more frame advantage since the opponent still has to go through his own full recovery.
Thank you both for clarifying that!
1:12 Sheer brilliance... 🤣
I'm really finding that pressing buttons on wake-up is a poor option in SF6. With drive rush you can get hit by a meaty from a lot farther away than you'd otherwise think, especially if the move used from drive rush is naturally forward moving. This is a really helpful guide though because I still see a lot of people waking up with buttons.
There's plenty of reasons to wakeup with buttons, especially to counter bad oki setups or people going for delayed blockstrings, throw baits and shimmies (to blow up your delay tech), or committed to block a reversal - however it is true that people tend to misuse this option and often just mash without rime or reason, which can be a big risk. As always proper defense is all about correctly cycling your options
Can we get a video about how to do proper pressure? I find that a lot of times I lose out to people just mashing jab after blocking and I lose out on opportunities to get in more damage.
Ahh yes I can finally beat cammy mains now
Thank you so much for this, there's only one thing I don't understand much. When doing reversal safe setups, what do I need to look for to know I'm safe? Or is it just try and error against different characters? Just wondering if there's numbers in the frame data I should look for
Honestly just test it if you want to know what the timing for a safe jump is. It is very character dependant.
You want to compare how long your move is going to be out vs the startup of your opponent's reversal. In the case I explained in the video, with Ken's c.lp, since the entire move is 14f total, you need to be at least +3 to beat Kimberly's 12f reversal (which means it's going to be out for only 11f after Kimberly can act, so you recover 1f before the super hits you). You can use the same math with different moves and situations to figure out what works and what doesn't, or simple trial and error
@@mir2266 Thank you so much!
If you do ken’s forward throw and then dash, can you buffer it to come out at first possible frame or it actually has to be timed?
Dashes can be buffered, yes.
@@VesperArcade nice. It really can be consistent if you use the setup. Also thanks for answering my question, and thanks for sharing some great info in your video
They’re all great guides. But when are you going to teach me how to do an infinite?
Mir, why are you trying to stop mashing? Mashing is the future of the FGC and it will never be stopped.😠
Daigo, Momochi and even Punk all mash on wakeup.
Can anyone give good tips how to tackle combo onslaught if you are on ground and waking up. DP, ex dp, super, or low p/k dont work if your opponent is ken,cammy, kim etc timing combos on you?
I NEED to know why I am getting hit by a "meaty" by every scrub under the sun in this game!!! This NEVER happened so often in V.
Is that the difference, what he said about recovery and back recovery having the same timing. Was it like that in V?
in SFV, back recovery was 5 frames slower than recovering in place (you also had the choice of staying on the ground), so you could change the timing a little bit and that did mess up some oki setups
@@mir2266 Thank you. I see. So this is yet another way that they've weakened defense.
Can someone tell me how to recover backwards? Please idk how
what if the opponent grab on wakeup?
Grabs have 5 frames startup, so a meaty will always beat them
A grab is slower than your fastest button (they are 5 frames instead of 4 frames). They also lose to attacks if they get hit on the same frame (in case you mistime your meaty). Aside from that, they behave exactly like waking up with any normal attack
Ex wake-ups be killing me
They are called meaties because there was some boxing game in which the technique was invented. In this particular game, I think it was an exploit or something, but essentially, the button used in that scenario looked like a piece of meat
Bruh diamond players be mashing on wake up all the time.
this is a ken video and even then you got the part about marisa wrong and this is why people scream she is OP. If you don't understand how the match goes then you can't explain anything Scutum is NOT armored low unless in OD so ANY low will punish her unless in OD.
That's her ONLY reversal right? I'm struggling waking up with Marisa. The guessing game is real
How many hits of armor does OD have.
@@rabbyd542 On OD scutum it's 2 hits full body.
@@Shifue Thank you. I'm a Chun main so I think lightning legs can beat that if I do it early enough.
@@csauce22 Depends on the play style. cause you can use gladius as a reversal as well. On wake up honestly she really has no good defensives against throws. If you are waking up on marisa the standard cr. jab is strong and fast. However to varying levels you can do wake up with specials. scutum is the fastest to wake with then gladius then Quadriga. You can do phalax but I think it's risky I have had problems using this in wake up.
I have a problem as ryu getting people to respect my pressure
This is when the game stops being fun, and is now a job.
Hey, lots of people love working two jobs, you do you.
This is tech against Platinum level sCammy's........cr.jab on every wakeup lol
I just played a juri player and all he did was constantly kept attacking me until i got in corner and he burnt my meter out just by me blocking the attacks. Nothing i could do to get out. Oh and when he did his super he got oki so i couldnt even get out. What a joke game
Meaty timing is just something you feel out 😊! Im a Marisa main so meaty scutum into enfold or DR MP, MP are my go to
Ken is soo blessed with his moves. Plz nerf
He's hard to use tho.
@@sky-oq5mr You're joking right? he's the easiest character in the game to use lol. There's a reason he's the most used character in all ranks.
@@sky-oq5mrhis long run cancel combos are hard but that’s about it, I’ve been playing everyday since launch with deejay and I’m at plat 5 (been playing mostly casuals tbh) but got Ken at plat 2 after a week or something, I’ve never played fighting games properly until now (tried to get decent at mk11) and Ken feels and is one of the easiest characters to do well with, he’s not brain dead or anything but s tier for sure
@@heroicsquirrel3195 Ken doesn't have massive damage. He takes a lot of execution and platinum is the begining rank. For the competitive side of things. Say that at master.
@@sky-oq5mr aside from his long run cancel combos whats the big execution requirements? Ken will carry players more than most other characters
Again now facing people who can do random cross dp’s like they have some cheat on to do auto.
I think it’s called meaty is because it’s more then normal lol
I thought this was going to be about frame traps
Close! It's about frame-kill .
So this video is about how to be better or play Ken lol
Yes
Blah all this stuff is overwhelming and makes me not even wanna play the game.
I mean you can just play the game and mash buttons. That's fine too until you reach a certain rank where they know this stuff. It's a game, have fun, it's not that serious.
@@reeeeeeee-e2gyeah true that's what I'm gonna be doing. I don't have the patience for learning all this stuff.
Beat mashers with timing and grabs