I have a very early build FG XR6 N/A..(April 2008). Absolute joy to drive.. Part of me would love a turbo of course but one thing that surprises a lot of people who travel with me is how strong and torquey the N/A is at all speeds. It's a stress free engine because of that and why they truly are basically bullet proof .. Such a strong and reliable powerplant in an N/A without any fuss is why they are a great thing . Thanks for another great video..
Great Video - A few things: I disagree the NA box is weaker, In my experience its stronger. Thicker clutches don't slip and overheat, the Turbo ones slip easier. the clutches in the NA ZF Box are much thicker. don't warp when they slip like the turbo box's do. This is purely through experience Blew 3 turbo box's, all heat warped clutches and wear, NA one had zero issues after 4 years at 402rwkw. Also Valves in the NA engine.. Egas has heat treated Valves on intake and exhaust, NA doesn't, and Turbo only on exhaust side. Great informative video mate, be good to see more like this, maybe break down Engine difference for NA/EGAS/EcoLPI/Petrol in more depth just the internals :)
Ohh and if you want to make a NA box work on a ZF turbo ECU - Change the Mechatronics unit out in the NA ZF with a turbo ZF mechatronic, I got one inside a blown turbo ZF box cost me only $150 and saved a lot of heart ache. I was also the first (or one of) to do FGX ICC and cluster into a FG back in Feb 2015. found a crashed FGX - got the whole dash with everything for $500 and programmed it in forscan to work with the MK2 FG ECU and Coms. All that info is on my post in club FG. - Noted that needs to be FG MK2 to FGC upgrade, Mk1 FG has different dash looms and plugs, making it way more complicated, Mk2 FG to FGX is much easier.
Nice, its good to see someone correcting misinformation. One thing I would have liked you to talk about more though is the difference in the internals, eg. The turbo motors not only had different rods, but the piston heads are different, the exhaust valves are made of a different material, etc. But also comparing that fact that the NA and Turbo engines themselves are basically identical, except the stated differences. I think it would make people alot less worried if they actually knew how little the difference is between the motors.
Turbo engine harness has the additional boost pressure sensor plug over the NA engine harness. The turbo model also has an engine bay harness with a plug for the wastegate actuator that goes around the front of the car to the PCM I believe, which the NA doesn't have. Going off a discussion with my tuner, there is also a difference in the PCM's used, the NA PCM can be set to a turbo mode, but only the turbo PCM gives a tuner boost control capability. NA conversions using the NA PCM typically require an external boost controller.
The transmission tune and obviously the engine tune are very different on the turbo, the transmission changes so that the rev’s don’t go below 1500rpm so that there is no lugging of the engine and when putting the foot down there’s less lagging as the turbo is already spooled up, this makes the turbo thirstier as the na motors will change up to higher gears and sit at around 1100rpm at 60 in 6th where the turbo will be at 1700rpm in 4th and won’t change to 5th till 70 Two things, on the highway between Brisbane and Townsville I averaged 7l/100km which I thought was excellent Also does the Mk 2 ecolpi motor have the turbo con rods like the earlier lpg motor? It runs a higher compression ratio than the na petrol motor, any ideas, gas is not as plentiful as it used to be and my sons G6e is an ecolpi model
Are you sure the na injectors are 627cc? I have an na that I put on e85 and it ran out of injector at 4000rpm. I’ve put in some bosch 627cc injectors and I’m due for another dyno tune. My point is I don’t think the na has 627cc. I think they’re closer to the 300cc mark from memory
So I’m putting a ba na motor into a turbo ba because the motor is no good, apart from that everything in the engine is fine the stock turbo is algood and everything else I was just wondering if the na motor would be able to handle it without a tune before I go get it tuned
I have a na 50th anniversary, are you saying that I would be better off changing the injectors and if I do that what else do I have to do anything or is it a simple as just replacing them for turbo ones I have also heard that the gas engines how much thicker and stronger piston rods and I've heard that they are preferable over all petrol models questions questions any answers to my questions please
Just wondering are the two blocks the same or different? Could they have cast the one block and drill and tap holes where they need for the turbo block?
G'day mate I was just wondering if the FG dump pipe is it the same as a BF dawn of conversion on a land cruiser and go on FG manifold can't seem to fit I was wondering if anyone would know thank you
What do you think my problem is...I have a misfire on my falcon...(in the shed all complete) had it on dyno once but had a missfire and we can't figure it out.... everything is new...no boost leaks or vacuum....PVC ect....what can cause this else can cause this... FG na motor ..all upgrade parts ..head bolts 60gate 1000cc...O2 is new..460 pump +12v mod..plugs coils...boost solenoid..pulsar bigger turbo..only one hasn't been replaced is map sensor on manifold... driving me nuts
Fg Turbo loom has a boost solenoid and related wiring, N/A does not, makes boost control a bit of a pain on N/A+T Coolant lines are slightly different between turbo and N/A obviously for coolant feed/return to the turbocharger
Hey just wondering what would be a cheaper option whether getting a new fgx turbo then building on top of that for around 700hp would be easier or cheaper than just building Ontop of an na fgx instead?
I’m building a fg na to 700hp and from my experience so far it’s just best if you buy a turbo to start with. There is just less things you need to worry about
Jokes aside, I do the same thing with your videos with my mechanic and the workshop manual. The biggest issue when your not a qualified mechanic or working on vehicles everyday is where to look first, or even the right term to look at the glossary in the workshop manual to go and try and troubleshoot the problem. Glad your doing the leg work on your end to make life easy for us out there having a crack and learning something in the process, been a fun 7 years for me following your content and being able to do more with a car I love driving.
I trust xr6falcontony with my life frankly, his posts in "buy swap sell ford au ba bf fg fgx group" really helped me work out if na brakes and brembos are the same thing. It's been good to know some videos have helped people do stuff to their cars themselves. I need to make more of them, but they're extremely time consuming and frankly cost me a lot more to make than I ever earn back in ad rev lol
Iv heard the value springs and related components need to be upgraded/replaced when making an na+T, is this true? Or is it just recommended when you want to make ~440rwkw?
@@UndergroundCarGuys thought so, cheers mate, in the process of fully converting my na to a turbo fg, probably just gonna swap out the engine for a turbo motor etc etc, still cheaper than buying a turbo fg these days lol
@@thataussiefg8667 Nice! yeah I did mine in 2016 and it only cost me $2500-$3000 and got it to 402rwkw. Now days tho stuff is WAY more expensive, I got my turbo Manifold for $100, intake manifold with injectors and rail and throttlebody for $400 and Intercooler pipes and cooler for $150... Unheard of now days.
@@UndergroundCarGuys holy dayum i wish i could do it that cheap, so far its already $2500 just for a turbo motor, no wiring harness or ecu included, gotta get all of that, plus intercooler setup, intake, exhaust, now im hearing trans, which i may as well get upgraded to billet internals so thats another $8000, then new driveshafts, diff and i want to eventually make it AWD, this is gon be pricy hahaha
It all depends but I'd say absolutely yes change them. Even on a turbo motor they're one of the first things you want to change anyway. and I agree on the motor swap. You don't have to do it, but it's not hard, it means you've got the better bottom end, if you can get your hands on a turbo motor and PCM aboslutely do it.
I have a very early build FG XR6 N/A..(April 2008). Absolute joy to drive.. Part of me would love a turbo of course but one thing that surprises a lot of people who travel with me is how strong and torquey the N/A is at all speeds. It's a stress free engine because of that and why they truly are basically bullet proof .. Such a strong and reliable powerplant in an N/A without any fuss is why they are a great thing . Thanks for another great video..
I have an 08 built FG ego grey, na love it to
straight line speed is boring anyway.. give me an N/A that handles well over a turbo that doesn't any day.
Great Video - A few things: I disagree the NA box is weaker, In my experience its stronger. Thicker clutches don't slip and overheat, the Turbo ones slip easier. the clutches in the NA ZF Box are much thicker. don't warp when they slip like the turbo box's do. This is purely through experience Blew 3 turbo box's, all heat warped clutches and wear, NA one had zero issues after 4 years at 402rwkw.
Also Valves in the NA engine.. Egas has heat treated Valves on intake and exhaust, NA doesn't, and Turbo only on exhaust side.
Great informative video mate, be good to see more like this, maybe break down Engine difference for NA/EGAS/EcoLPI/Petrol in more depth just the internals :)
Ohh and if you want to make a NA box work on a ZF turbo ECU - Change the Mechatronics unit out in the NA ZF with a turbo ZF mechatronic, I got one inside a blown turbo ZF box cost me only $150 and saved a lot of heart ache.
I was also the first (or one of) to do FGX ICC and cluster into a FG back in Feb 2015. found a crashed FGX - got the whole dash with everything for $500 and programmed it in forscan to work with the MK2 FG ECU and Coms. All that info is on my post in club FG. - Noted that needs to be FG MK2 to FGC upgrade, Mk1 FG has different dash looms and plugs, making it way more complicated, Mk2 FG to FGX is much easier.
Nice, its good to see someone correcting misinformation. One thing I would have liked you to talk about more though is the difference in the internals, eg. The turbo motors not only had different rods, but the piston heads are different, the exhaust valves are made of a different material, etc. But also comparing that fact that the NA and Turbo engines themselves are basically identical, except the stated differences. I think it would make people alot less worried if they actually knew how little the difference is between the motors.
You definitely need the Elvis glasses to match that microphone
I was thinking Elton John.....
I think I'd rather get rid of than mic than wear the elivs glasses lol
Turbo engine harness has the additional boost pressure sensor plug over the NA engine harness. The turbo model also has an engine bay harness with a plug for the wastegate actuator that goes around the front of the car to the PCM I believe, which the NA doesn't have. Going off a discussion with my tuner, there is also a difference in the PCM's used, the NA PCM can be set to a turbo mode, but only the turbo PCM gives a tuner boost control capability. NA conversions using the NA PCM typically require an external boost controller.
Can you also do the fpv engine differences
Hey dude, any chance you could make a video on upgrading or changing the transmission/coolant hoses to stop the choccy milk?
Yeah I've already got an external cooler sitting on a shelf waiting to go.
But just haven't got round to it because I want to make sure I do it right.
Jeez, just buy a turbo model. It seems like such a massive f-around
ok rich guy
The transmission tune and obviously the engine tune are very different on the turbo, the transmission changes so that the rev’s don’t go below 1500rpm so that there is no lugging of the engine and when putting the foot down there’s less lagging as the turbo is already spooled up, this makes the turbo thirstier as the na motors will change up to higher gears and sit at around 1100rpm at 60 in 6th where the turbo will be at 1700rpm in 4th and won’t change to 5th till 70
Two things, on the highway between Brisbane and Townsville I averaged 7l/100km which I thought was excellent
Also does the Mk 2 ecolpi motor have the turbo con rods like the earlier lpg motor? It runs a higher compression ratio than the na petrol motor, any ideas, gas is not as plentiful as it used to be and my sons G6e is an ecolpi model
7 lt/100 kms is awesome! That's the thing about these cars, on the highway, they purr like a kitten and get 4 cylinder economy
I can assure you that if you take your ZF trans to any shop they will tell you that there are no parts available to rebuild it
The fg turbo map sensor plugs into a ba/ bf loom too.
plug n play or nah
@@TheJacobAnwyl Nah unless you have pcmtec or similar. To compair the n/a files to a turbo one and copy over what you need. Did this on my au barra.
the gudgeon pins on the rods are different .. turbo are flaoting n/a are pressed thats where the issue lies
Early turbo motors did not have the stronger rods
I think the injector size is wrong you said Thay are 650cc the stock injectors with the 4bar Reg are 393cc
yes
Ring gap is different, also valves and valve springs are different.
Very useful!
BA with Turbo LSD had same diameter tailshaft flange as the NA, (16 mm shorter)
WHAT ABOUT FUEL PUMP?
Are you sure the na injectors are 627cc? I have an na that I put on e85 and it ran out of injector at 4000rpm. I’ve put in some bosch 627cc injectors and I’m due for another dyno tune. My point is I don’t think the na has 627cc. I think they’re closer to the 300cc mark from memory
The B series seem to have been in the 300cc range.
But all the technical info I could find for FG said they're 627cc.
So I’m putting a ba na motor into a turbo ba because the motor is no good, apart from that everything in the engine is fine the stock turbo is algood and everything else I was just wondering if the na motor would be able to handle it without a tune before I go get it tuned
That gold microphone tho
Why does everyone want to talk about my mic so much? haha
Hey there , is it the lines on the power steering cooler that are longer or do you get longer power steering lines . Cheers
I have a na 50th anniversary, are you saying that I would be better off changing the injectors and if I do that what else do I have to do anything or is it a simple as just replacing them for turbo ones I have also heard that the gas engines how much thicker and stronger piston rods and I've heard that they are preferable over all petrol models questions questions any answers to my questions please
Just wondering are the two blocks the same or different? Could they have cast the one block and drill and tap holes where they need for the turbo block?
So I've heard the manual 6speed gearbox has a shorter set of gears for better acceleration... Anybody know if there's any truth in it?
Looking to buy an xrt6 fg ute in the near future, any advice?
G'day mate I was just wondering if the FG dump pipe is it the same as a BF dawn of conversion on a land cruiser and go on FG manifold can't seem to fit I was wondering if anyone would know thank you
What do you think my problem is...I have a misfire on my falcon...(in the shed all complete) had it on dyno once but had a missfire and we can't figure it out.... everything is new...no boost leaks or vacuum....PVC ect....what can cause this else can cause this...
FG na motor ..all upgrade parts ..head bolts 60gate 1000cc...O2 is new..460 pump +12v mod..plugs coils...boost solenoid..pulsar bigger turbo..only one hasn't been replaced is map sensor on manifold... driving me nuts
What about radiator ?
Fg Turbo loom has a boost solenoid and related wiring, N/A does not, makes boost control a bit of a pain on N/A+T
Coolant lines are slightly different between turbo and N/A obviously for coolant feed/return to the turbocharger
Really good points.
I totally forgot the boost solenoid and wiring.
You can get around it completely on the NA+T by using a boost controller.
Does anyone know how you can identify a turbo box from an NA, is it in the serial number or how without taking it apart?
What about the ECU?
Why bother using stock turbo parts and worry about what you are discussing on this topic, just go aftermarket options which are mostly better anyway
My bf engine says 3r23 on the side are they suitable for a bit of boost?
Wrong again the Xr6 turbo and na have the exact same injector. The pressure regulator is different.
Hey just wondering what would be a cheaper option whether getting a new fgx turbo then building on top of that for around 700hp would be easier or cheaper than just building Ontop of an na fgx instead?
I’m building a fg na to 700hp and from my experience so far it’s just best if you buy a turbo to start with. There is just less things you need to worry about
Wrong again the ba map is not a direct swap. The wiring is the other way around.
Bruh why did you leave so many comments just to be wrong every time or chat some random shit that I didn't even talk about lol
Anyone got a m86 diff with 3.7s in Sydney, will buy :)
Hey are the valve different?
Yes. AFAIK, the BF (might be the same for FG) it has "O" in scripted in the valve whereas NA hasn't
The exhaust valves are inconel on the turbo
Yep
nah i trust xr6falcontony or xrbrah who last posted in 2009 on whirlpool, how could they be wrong
Jokes aside, I do the same thing with your videos with my mechanic and the workshop manual. The biggest issue when your not a qualified mechanic or working on vehicles everyday is where to look first, or even the right term to look at the glossary in the workshop manual to go and try and troubleshoot the problem. Glad your doing the leg work on your end to make life easy for us out there having a crack and learning something in the process, been a fun 7 years for me following your content and being able to do more with a car I love driving.
I trust xr6falcontony with my life frankly, his posts in "buy swap sell ford au ba bf fg fgx group" really helped me work out if na brakes and brembos are the same thing.
It's been good to know some videos have helped people do stuff to their cars themselves.
I need to make more of them, but they're extremely time consuming and frankly cost me a lot more to make than I ever earn back in ad rev lol
Is the na Barra fuel efficient?
average about 11.2l/100kms
Iv heard the value springs and related components need to be upgraded/replaced when making an na+T, is this true? Or is it just recommended when you want to make ~440rwkw?
100% NA Valve springs are weak as, can valve float at 260+rwkw
@@UndergroundCarGuys thought so, cheers mate, in the process of fully converting my na to a turbo fg, probably just gonna swap out the engine for a turbo motor etc etc, still cheaper than buying a turbo fg these days lol
@@thataussiefg8667 Nice! yeah I did mine in 2016 and it only cost me $2500-$3000 and got it to 402rwkw. Now days tho stuff is WAY more expensive, I got my turbo Manifold for $100, intake manifold with injectors and rail and throttlebody for $400 and Intercooler pipes and cooler for $150... Unheard of now days.
@@UndergroundCarGuys holy dayum i wish i could do it that cheap, so far its already $2500 just for a turbo motor, no wiring harness or ecu included, gotta get all of that, plus intercooler setup, intake, exhaust, now im hearing trans, which i may as well get upgraded to billet internals so thats another $8000, then new driveshafts, diff and i want to eventually make it AWD, this is gon be pricy hahaha
It all depends but I'd say absolutely yes change them. Even on a turbo motor they're one of the first things you want to change anyway.
and I agree on the motor swap. You don't have to do it, but it's not hard, it means you've got the better bottom end, if you can get your hands on a turbo motor and PCM aboslutely do it.
N/A = not applicable