We had a guest lecture from by Prof. Dr. Olusoga of Aston University in Burmingham. He said that the biggest problem concerning colonialism is that history has become a safe space for most of people. They don't want to concern themselves with the dark chapters of their country's history. And the best thing he said was "History is messy. It's not something that should first and foremost make you feel good. It should tell you something". Therefore I really really like the fact that you did this video. It shows that you are not part of the problem. So in my opinion it is okay to have fun playing Puerto Rico. I mean as long as you're not a dick about it and call it "enslaved worker placement game".
The US has a military presence in 150 countries so another big problem about colonialism is that we're spoken to by academia as if colonialism isn't ongoing
The lecture I was talking about was part of a cultural studies seminar with the titel "Capitalism, Commerce and a History of Forced Labour". So I don't know anything about colonialism in the present. What you're talking about would not technically be labled colonialism though, would it? The US has forces stationed in Germany, but we're not part of America. They don't grab land and make it "New America" like the puritans made "New England". I'm not meaning the state btw.
device won't let me scroll to the proper spot. Yes it's called neocolonialism, because effectively, it's still "give me your country's wealth or we'll end you with economic sanctions or bombs". Germany is a very "Western/ aka white" example . Just like we in the states don't call mass incarceration slavery, but here we are sentencing/locking up Black men at exponentially on purpose
@@sackbeardthepirate8096 I wouldn't put all the blame on academia when it's just as much a political and economic issue. State education boards have a say over what goes on textbooks so that it aligns with their curriculum (which is how we end up with textbooks describing slaves as "workers from Africa" and diminishing the harm of neocolonialism), and publishers cave in because they don't want to lose those big contracts. Now yes, the authors of those textbooks (academics) bear responsibility for allowing these issues, but like any human being, they have biases, too. There was a scholar named Ron Takaki who wrote a history of the U.S. from the perspective of minority groups, but I don't think many states rushed to adopt it as a main history textbook (and if they did, it was probably as a "supplementary" source for advanced classes, not all classes).
Puertorrican here. I think it's really great that you guys acknowledge the problem of colonialism in Puerto Rico and in general. The boardgame doesn't offend me but I would like that people playing the game know that it's a big problem and a a sad situation for our precious little Island. Puerto Rico is one of the oldest colony and we suffer because of it. Great video, great channel. Peace and Love 🇵🇷💕
I love how you navigated this. Brought the issue up, recognized the history of your place, still acknowledged that you're still a fan of it yet on board with a re-theme if one happens, and can totally get behind anybody who the game doesn't sit well with. This let's you keep your video up, and you can link to this video with a well timed card link in that one, and I don't know I feel everyone can walk away from the videos feeling ok Soeaking as a white male Canadian, I desperately want to seek out your new recommendation here, as my part native wife will totally get a kick of that 😂
As a Puertorrican, I appreciate you having this conversation. I’ve never played it, but I’m sure the mechanics are its redeeming qualities. I’m hoping it can get a new life with a new theme, although its development should absolutely include people from here.
Ultimately, a lot of games are based on some really dark real life themes. Monopoly is based on some of the very worst excesses of capitalism, after all, & it's one of the most popular family board games out there. Plenty of games are based on war or political strife, which is rarely a happy subject at the best of times & can often really gloss over that through abstraction. I mean, one popular party game has one player being *actual Hitler*, for goodness' sake! If you're a sensitive person who actually cares about other humans beings, then it's natural & admirable to wrestle with these subjects. I think Puerto Rico's issue is more that it doesn't acknowledge the darker elements, either in a satirical or blunt manner. Nobody likes real murder, but we can divorce the reality of murder from games like Cluedo when it's upfront about what it is: it isn't as if it's pretending murder isn't a horrible thing to happen. So perhaps that's the way forward. Acknowledge history is full of horrible atrocities, but this is a game: an abstraction, not a reenactment. Some people can't do that, & that's fine: others can, & that's fine too. Some would argue there are limits of taste (though given Cards Against Humanity is a thing, I genuinely wouldn't know what it is) but it does seem a personal matter for a lot of folk.
And if anything, playing these sorts of games and themes should make people both question the background and history. Some people will have no idea about these parts of history but hopefully playing something like this gets them interested in finding out more about it.
@@alharron2145 My thoughts exactly and hopefully it leads to you and the rest of the players having an interesting discussion about it. The biggest mistakes are made when we don't discuss these historic periods of time.
@@walksinthedarkness I think it goes back to the comedic concept of “punching up vs punching down”. I disagree with you. I’m not Puerto Rican, but from a former British colony as well and I think Adam’s closing statement put it eloquently. Some designers or publishers might have the privilege of carving pinball machines out of an oppressed culture’s past and their consumers might see no issues with that because there’s no way they can associate with it. The reason why it’s problematic is the same reason why a social deduction game with a 9/11 theme or a euro game about efficient transportation of Jewish, polish and soviet prisoners by German Reich during WW2 would be outrageously problematic. If modern board gaming has to truly become a global medium of entertainment (board games are universal, but I mean the hobby growing past it’s American and Eurocentric sphere in its modern form), then there are bigger challenges to tackle than just localization. Fortunately, the hobby usually attracts very sweet people who tend to be open minded and it looks as if we’re on the right path. Also, highly recommended No pun included’s review of Pax pamir - Efka and Elaine talk more about colonialism and how it’s represented in board game + address some controversy around the first edition of that game. What I’m saying, it really depends how a part of history is framed for a board game theme. Spirit island punches up, you get to fight colonial powers; where as something like Puerto Rico gamifies exploitation (punching down). Just because they have the similar themes, doesn’t mean that they wrapped player agency around the same aspect of it - and you may not necessarily even get nudged to explore the vulgarity behind it - in fact it’s usually the opposite.
An actual Puerto Rican here saying thank you for considering our struggle and perspective. It's a hell of a lot more than our colonizers have ever done for us. Keep up the good work.
This could actually make for an interesting series! Something about games that have outdated or offensive themes but may be mechanically sound or even good. Engaging in conversation about what changes we could all make for the better is always good!
There are many people in this world without the integrity to consider context. So glad to see you guys are willing to go out of your way to do so. Thank you, Adam.
This game is about setting up plantations and other resource fields. The background is in colonial Puerto Rico, the brownish worker pieces that players place on plantations represent slaves.
It's not about taking offense, it's about being critical of the art/entertainment one consumes. You know, basic art/history literacy that wouid expand your horizons.
I didn't see a single comment about Puerto Rico, and it is just a board game so I feel this video although trying to cover all your bases to not offend anyone, was unnecessary. There was also a game about cattle rustling, which in reality is the biggest cause of climate change and tortures and kills billions of animals every year, and there's no video about that. I doubt Jews are offended by Secret Hitler, there's also games based around pandemics, fires, murder, gangsters, various invasions of countries like France, Italy, Spain etc which could be "problematic" if it's affected you directly, but it's fine because we understand that they're just themed games and offense is never given, only taken. Don't worry so much, don't apologise and review what you want.
Respect for taking your time to engage into the conversation rather than shying away from it. If the game ever does get a re-themed edition I'll definitely have to try it out as it sounds similar to one of my favourites, Race for the Galaxy. Keep up the good work 👍
It can be hard to grapple with something like this because, on the one hand, I'd very much not enjoy playing a game called "Ireland" where you're tasked to command a Black and Tan paramilitary and subjugate the island one massacre at a time. On the other hand, I've quite enjoyed Risk and Sid Meier's Civilization on PC, and those games let you conquer the entire world, launch nukes at people for lolz, and generally be a maniac. The difference being, of course, it's either a total fictionalization or places every people group on equal footing at the beginning and lets you completely rewrite history based on the course of play. For me, at least, the difference between "fun game about taking over the world" versus "making light of the suffering of others" comes in finding the right setup to keep it relatively abstract. Grim or dark themes in and of themselves aren't problematic for me, just look at how much fun Warhammer 40K can be. The moral issue is whether you're reducing empathy for a real world situation by putting it in the same mental box as Warhammer, a pretendy funtime world where none of the victims are real people and the conquerors are really just friends rolling dice and having beers.
As a native Puerto Rican, I have never even fucking heard of that game, but eitherway I'm glad over the way you address this issue in the video. Much Love 💕
Spot on. Is the setting excusable? No. Is the game good from a strictly gaming perspective? Yes. Be aware and make your own mind up about it but know that Puerto Rico comes with a strict "you may not be comfortable with this" warning
Is the setting excusable? Very much, yes. What makes it unexcusable? Slavery? A part of human history? We are fine with war, plague, intrigue but slavery is too far? Games, books, movies, pictures, paintings, comedy, satire should picture these topics and settings. Because we wont get rid of the underlying problem when we just close our eyes about every sensitive topic and try to built safe spaces even in frigging board games. The next step would be canceling these kind of games and by god please stop.
You can play a game with this theme and not agree with actual colonialism. Just like you can play Secret Hitler without wanting to murder millions of people in a genocide.
I didn’t even know this conversation was happening, but I’m glad for this video. Appreciate that a lot of euro games have the problem of being colonisation-based, whether that’s planets or countries or random patches of land. Think it should maybe have been included in Laurie’s explained video.
Good on you for being socially responsible and addressing this issue. You did it sensitively. I have never been overtly offended by a game's theme (I play plenty of video games that glorify war and violence, etc) and it is more socially accepted there for some reason. A tough theme is a tough theme and it does warrant a conversation.
I appreciate you doing this video. As someone says below, a big issue is that Puerto Rico puts a paper thin cover over what it is doing "No these brown pieces are colonists! That came from .... a ship to work on these... plantations. Nothing to think about here!" Other games with more dark themes (Secret Hitler, Murder: Deception in Hong Kong, Dead of Winter, etc.) don't pretend that the bad people are not doing bad things. People can still enjoy playing the villain since it is fiction, but they aren't acting like what they are doing is neutral, let alone good. Also, as a side note, I dislike Puerto Rico for its gameplay, so the theme really didn't help.
For those of you just now arriving who want to give Puerto Rico a shot, a new edition is coming soon based on the age where Puerto Rico was independent, allowing for a theme that promotes the island's culture and even more gorgeous art. Check out Puerto Rico 1897!
Well Done Adam for addressing this issue. I am kind of like you where I enjoy some games with questionable themes such as mental health, sexism and colonialism. But I enjoy them for the mechanics and gameplay, not the theme. It is a little colourblind of me to not realise how problematic they can be and when I bring them to game nights, I do tell them to sort of look passed the theme, reimagine certain elements or to look at it in jest, poking fun of it. But it is always good to tell anyone who wants to play those games that this game has theming that can now be seen as offensive or problematic and should be given the choice to pass on it if not comfortable. It is good to hear that you feel the same way and that this needs to be a conversation so that future board games can no longer have such questionable stories and theming.
Iam Portuguese and i live in Portugal, here we don't have problems to speak of history, becouse history is part of our culture. Portugueses were the first to sell a slave it was in Portugal city of Lagos, and we also were the first to abolish slavery. Don't make us proud or sad, it is history, in that time was normal. Today we are civilize(thank god) Here we joke about black people white people pink people yellow people, people in general. We joke about people that live in South of Portugal that live in north east and west of Portugal. We don't give a fu. If we are being called racists becouse we are not. We just don't have tabus about things. We talk about everything. At the end of the day Portuguese people sit around the table eating and drinking with all of the people(white black pink...) talking and having a good time. We diferenciate history from the present day. You guys talk about the past like it's tabu your make it look like racism, like something forbidden to speak. Why? It's just a board game with a historical theme, at least for me and my friends
Portuguese here as well. Your heart is in the right place, but were not the first to sell slaves (it's a practice as old as mankind) nor the first to abolish slavery (Haiti was the first nation to abolish slavery). I know that narrative often goes around as a redemption story, but it's a myth.
Just a thought: maybe link this video in the comments/description of the previous one just to let people know that the channel has made a statement on the theme of Puerto Rico.
A suggestion for a video is a deep dive into some of the problematic themes in board games. Specifically, I’d love y’all to discuss the game “train” created by Brenda Brathwaite.
Puerto Rico basically fails to do something that the video game series Tropico does: acknowledging the theme and its grim aspects. Tropico does this with humour. Silly puns, absurd humour and a touch of dark humour... You're still playing as the dictator of a banana republic, but you know you're doing something awful while still being able to enjoy the silliness of it.
As a swede, I think I can play Puerto Rico in good conscience. Yes, we have a Viking history and we may have invaded Poland at one point, but who hasn't done that? May he who hasn't throw the first stone!
We've been invaded so many times by so many countries, that the line "but who hasn't done that?" can be interpreted both as "who hasn't invaded somebody else" in general and "who hasn't invaded Poland" in particular lmao. I agree, everybody, both European powers and native peoples all over the world played the exactly same game of power and politics. Europeans only proved to be better at this game, and that's not a reason to single them out and pander to anybody. This self-loathing exhibited by so many people in the West is irrational.
Hey man, I don't think anyone has an issue with the game being in your your Top 10. My issue with the game is that lies (poorly) to the players. If you play Letters from Whitechapel you KNOW one of the players is a killer murdering women. If you play Archipelago you KNOW you are actively bringing European culture to an island and f&^% it. But when you play Puerto Rico it calls the slaves Colonists and pretends that no one is going to notice. True story, I have only played Puerto Rico once. It was round a friends house and when we were done I made the comment that we'd just played Slavery: The Board Game. My two friends didn't get it and I laid out to them the actions we'd taken (people in ships, working in cotton fields, brown playing pieces etc etc). When the penny dropped the only thing they could say was "but the game said they were Colonists." Like I said on the other video. I don't hate the game for the theme (horrible though it is). I hate the game because it lies and does a s&%$ job of lying. But then calling it Slavery: The Board Game probably wouldn't sell many boxes. Unless that game is Freedom: The Underground Railroad (which SU&SD did an excellent review of many years ago).
Thank you for this. I had a similar experience and, out of a sense of balance, I am buying copies of Spirit Island for myself and my friends that I used to play Peurto Rico with.
This is such an interesting anecdote because it reveals a lot about what people are taught about colonialism in schools. Having grown up in a Latin American country (which is FAR from perfect in how it deals with its history), my immediate response to your friends would've been, "well, what exactly do you think Colonists did?" (I've had plenty of similar conversations with American friends, just not about board games lol)
@@andresgc770 I know I am just one person, but as a history teacher (and within my school, the entire history department) I know I teach colonialism as exactly what it was/is, which is slavery. It definitely depends on the teacher, but sadly there’s only so many of us who teach it correctly for what it was, and not nearly enough of us exist throughout the U.S.
My question is, did your friends stick to the “but they were called ‘colonists’”, or did they actually realize the problem of the game at that moment? I couldn’t tell from your anecdote if they were not accepting it entirely because of what they said, or if it was the more heavy “holy shit...but why say colonists? I don’t know if I can play this again...”
@@charlesedwards2856At the time I think it was more denial. It was a few years ago and we were all new to modern board gaming. I think they couldn't believe that someone would publish a game that was so blatent about slavery that they accepted the thin gloss of "they are colonists". I actually messaged one of them off the back of the No Rolls Barred video. His response was "brillient game mechanically, but yeah "colonists" " I fairly certain the game has been gathering dust in their cupboard ever since.
Personally I tend to look at board games with a theme of colonialism as something that can be used to teach history and make point at the same time. Kind of similar to how I view monopoly, which while a bad game in general it’s mechanics, born out of the Great Depression are there to illustrate what happens with unfettered capitalism. A lesson that unfortunately is completely missed despite it’s overwhelming popularity. So in a way these games have a point that can be used for good. Like I could easily see a professor of diaspora or colonial history using these games to illustrate the colonial mindset and the effects it had on people being seen as a means to an end.
Adam you are in the top 10 humans of all time. I really have a lot to say about this but ill just sit back and be happy u made an extra video. I hope your ok i can hear it in your voice and see it on your face.
Thanks for including a recommendation in the response for those who may be uncomfortable with your pick. Very proactive and empowering (at least I think so) to give an alternative and choices rather than a unilateral backtrack.
I'm sorry, but it was centuries ago. At a certain point people need to get over this sort of thing and stop taking out assumed offenses they don't really have on great games that mean no harm. I'm Greek and yet one of my favorite games of all time is Istanbul. I just love it even though in my heart the city's name is and always will be Constantinople and was conquered by the Ottoman empire under which we suffered for 400 years of occupation until the revolution of 1821. And even until recently, a mere 60years ago, the Greek population of Constantinople suffered pogroms and was persecuted and forced to leave and immigrate to Greece leaving everything they had behind. So am I supposed to not enjoy Istanbul? Screw that.
As a Latin American I find this topic very silly. Props to Adam for making this video. I am not offended in any manner by this board game, I actually hope it’s our next board game club game. Let’s be realistic. You guy’s played a game where one of you had to be hitler. There were no offensive “jokes.” Plus you guys dropped knowledge that I’m sure some didn’t know, like hitler was Australian. Thank you Adam and board game club. 2.63!!!
Yeah. It’s completely unnecessary for the channel to apologize for liking a board game. If someone is offended by this they need to grow up and look to the real problems with the world. It’s like the people fighting to keep the Washington Redskins name. It’s offensive, there is no argument here, and it’s just football. Change the name and move on.
It's perfectly fine to enjoy a game about colonialism, you don't need to justify it to yourself or anyone else tbh, after all it's just a game. These top ten lists are your subjective take on the "best" games of that sub-genre, and if someone doesn't like your list, they can go ahead and make their own. I really like Crusader Kings II, but I certainly wouldn't do, or enjoy half the stuff my characters have done in that game.
Adam, thank you very much for not shying away from this conversation (and also shouting out NPI’s great video). You highlighted the problems I have with the theme and why I would not feel comfortable playing the game, while I appreciate its mechanics. Thank you for opening up this conversation for people.
As someone who is easily swayed by advertisement, I was more offended at how Food Chain thinks it's so easy to sell me a burger. (Please note, a heavily sarcastic joke about the situation) I understand why people can be upset by the themes in Puerto Rico, and similar to you Adam I'm aware that I'm speaking from privilege as a man from Liverpool, a city that essentially invented the slave trade and benefited hugely from it. It is a conversation we all must have, but if you think about it, this board game may actually bring about the opportunity to talk about the topic which we might not otherwise have? Glad you made this follow up video to discuss it, continue your fabulous work
Well said Adam. Puerto Rico is probably a very good starting point for a conversation about how colonialism is really fucked. FWIW. I'd love to get the colonial rag off our canton.
There has to be a balance between preachy lectures and pearl-clutching moralism (where we can enjoy games in the context they were created, as entertainment) and allowing these kinds of games to become stumbling blocks between people and our hobby. I think the original choice, to not attempt to weigh in on something that complex in a fun board game channel, was a strong one. With that being said, I'm becoming a bigger fan of Adam Blampied and this channel all the time. Who knew the silly guy from What Culture had that kind of depth and genuine emotional resonance?
Ok to play games about WAR, for example, but we draw the line at colonialist slavery? Both are unsavoury aspects of history & slavery was rife all over the world, not just across the Atlantic. Africans, Asians, Romans & Vikings, to say the least, were also enslaving - so I would say all you are guilty of is not pandering enough to today’s political dogma. Give yourself a break & appreciate that board games can simply be useful lessons in history, amongst other things.
That’s a fair point on the one hand. On the other, it does bring up the fact that outrage is subjective. We all know what happened with Hitler, including the suicide, so games like this are meant to poke fun at him in a way. However, the U.S. still “owns” Puerto Rico, which is sadly the most apt term for it, which shows colonialism still existing. On top of that, colonialism for some other countries is still something that existed within people’s lifetimes and hurt people they may have known and cared about. As another commenter said, history is messy and isn’t supposed to make you feel good. I guess the subjectivity depends on the theme of the game. “Secret Fascist” probably wouldn’t sell as well. People, for good or bad, have an obsession with Hitler because he’s considered the definition of being a monster (although Stalin could easily hold that record by comparison).
Desperate to see you having to do that... yes today this game could not be printed with this theme. But at the time that was not frowned upon. We can understand history by knowing not forgetting it. Let’s fight for our mind. Courage to all of you
I see this in one of two ways. The one is that while in the game space we should be allowed to pretend we are someone else and who does other things than we would normally do, and enjoy it in the process. The other is that people will be sensitive to this or that to the degree that it would make a game more uncomfortable than fun. Naturally don't play games you do not enjoy. But also be considerate to those you play games with if you know there are subjects that are difficult for them. The purpose of games is usually to have fun. Should designers be allowed to design problematic games? Should people be allowed to play problematic games behind closed doors?... I'll leave that for youtube comments to decide.
I am Puerto Rican and I could care less. Colonialism is a part of history, was necessary for the growth of the world. Someone that is from Britain has no more privilege than someone from Puerto Rico.
As a Puerto Rican, I don't find it offensive. I understand that colonialism puts a sour taste in some people's mouths, but without colonialization, many of us would not be alive right now. I'm Not Promoting what was done in the past, but that Was the Past and NOT our present and NOT our Future. This is just a Game People and if anything it's showing history of what used to be generations ago.
Here’s why I think I don’t agree Adam, and I mean this with genuine respect for you and what you had to say. I feel like, because board gaming is inherently an art form that has the potential to tell a grander story, it’s important for themes of colonialism to be explored along with other difficult subject matter. It challenges their players, it makes you think and feel about what that period of time was like, the discomfort it brings, especially when it deliberately places you on the dominating side of the war. It’s commentary. In today’s woke world where people are genuinely more socially conscious it’s not a bad thing to have this kind of art - even if the design intent was one of ignorance - be here to test our morals, and explore these themes in an interactive medium.
I appreciate you making this statement. I was very surprised that your initial video didn’t even mention the theme issues so I’m glad you’ve addressed it here.
As an avid board gamer with a degree in ethnic studies and as the child of war refugees impacted by colonialism, I definitely feel this conversation needs to happen more. Too many reviewers and influencers shy away from this topic and become mechanics elitists. Stories matter. Theme and Setting (and their distortions) have immense ideological, institutional, and interpersonal impacts on people and places. I think it's also okay to own that some (most?) of the things we like are fraught with problems: I'm a huge NBA fan and I also know that basketball as an industry is run by billionaires who exploit the masses through sport as an investment. I also think it's deeply important to be critical of any industry such as board games when considering what narratives and messages they wish to tell. I'm not saying we can't tell lots of stories, but I definitely feel some type of way about a board game designer profiteering off of a game about a historically marginalized group without challenging our thinking through its gameplay as critique. It's also incredibly deflating when these stories are appropriated for economic benefit of the company and game designer without directing real resources to the communities they have effectively mined for that story. It's also incredibly important to consider our own power to make change: if enough people campaigned to make noise with Seyfarth and the companies publishing the game, then we could sunset/reskin/republish the game or rethink how that story is told with new copies. Of note: I've been shut down by an influencer online for criticizing Kemet's literal usage of white power and slavery in its game because they refused to touch the topic and did not critically engage with this criticism of it. We've got a long way to go.
Eh. As a guy who came from a country that was under colonial powers for more than 300 years, I don't understand why people are up in arms regarding a theme of a boardgame. It's just weird.
These are board games, people. Enjoy them for what they are or go find something else that floats your boat. This was Adam’s opinion, and you may not always agree. We won’t always agree on opinion, but we can still get along. Thank you Adam for not wavering in your opinion of the game.
Adam, as an argentine (a country colonized by the Spanish crown and used as a port to suck gold out of South America) I think some people right now are very sensitive about themes that portrait a part moment when the world has standards that where nothing like ours. Porto Rico is an amazing euro game and the theme is based on a historically relevant moment. Apparently by today’s standards history is just plain racist and games should just be about apologizing for things dead people did hundreds of years ago. I understand that as a RUclips channel you probably need to make this so that a small percentage of your fan base feels like justice has been made, but at least on my part I fully understand this is a BOARD GAME CHANNEL and you are reviewing games based on how complex, fun and interesting they are. No need to go back to 7 Wonders and say you are sorry because every wonder was built by slaves. Or how the railroads on ticket to ride America were built by the Chinese that frequently blew up while making a hole on a mountain. The board game community is among the nicest ones you can find on the internet (just look at every comment section on a BG channel). So, keep doing what you are doing. You guys are awesome and this is by far my favorite board game channel (and we lost a war to you, so there).
Great to see you addressing this. It’s a weird situation the hobby finds itself in currently, much like the statues in the news recently of figures with slave trading past. For me the point is to raise awareness of the historical context. We don’t need to stop playing the games, but publishers going forward need to start engaging with this. Keep rolling 🎲🎲
No need to apologize. The structure of this or any other game is what it is, and yes, it can be rethemed in a lot of different ways, I'm sure, and everything from that front would probably otherwise be fine. Heck, it's the 21st century, make a space theme out of it. At the same time, I am a believer that to outright ban a game or whatever based on its theme being something that offends people is not the end all answer. Such things can and should be used as teaching moments to say yeah, this was a thing back then, we are aware of it, and understand that it is not something we would or should ever do to today to people of a specific culture. The point is, let the game be the game, and when as a teacher, you can find moments like this where you discuss subjects and curriculums that are not just your own and come away with more of an education than you went in for, everyone wins. And that is exactly what happened here.
A great video tactfully addressing a very delicate topic. I've never played Puerto Rico, but playing Archipelago with people has started some very interesting conversations. The game makes it clear that the players are colonizers and that the native population can and will rebel against you if you take too many oppressive actions. There's a literal 'Slavery' card that can be used by a player who purchases it, and one player discussed the mechanical implications of it while acknowledging the morally bankrupt nature of the practice. Part of the great time we had that night was having those discussions, especially when it was revealed that one of the players was secretly working with the native population and was secretly hoping the other player would purchase that card, as it would have made sparking revolution easier. I think that by avoiding the topic altogether, Puerto Rico does its historical source material a disservice, and robs some of the experience from the players. I'm glad you put this video together and brought the subject up in this manner. We do not become better people unless we learn from history, and we do not learn from history if we do not talk about it.
Colonialism was a force of change across the world. We will never know what those peoples and nations could have been if anything without the influences of the nations that colonized them. But we also have to accept that this has been going on for many centuries and even millennia on different scales. From just migrating into new regions and taking them over (How Homo Sapians pushed out Neanderthal) to full militarized campaigns of conquest. I mean Rome was one of the largest colonial powers in the world as they stretched across most of europe. Is that to say everything brought there, that came about because of circumstances there, etc was 100% bad. No, adversity is the mother of all invention after all. But its more people have a gut-reaction to being told they are innately evil because of something they have had no part in. And often times we do imply inherent guilt simply because you are from a particular nation or from a particular ethnic group (See Anti-Semitism for it being used as a weapon) So were there bad things from Colonialism? Yeah, horrible things like attempted genocide to full genocide. But telling little Billy that he is somehow morally guilty for the acts of people thousands of miles away and hundreds of years ago just because of the accident of being born a specific skin color or from a specific nation.
It was a great thing, we wouldn't have gotten to the industrial revolution without it, you wouldn't be typing on a computer, actually you'd probably be dead because science wouldn't be as advanced and 2/3rd of children would die before reaching the age of 2.
@@taserrr what kind of level of alienation must a people have to gave that kind of answer? Slavery, violence and steel resources from others is not the reason human race has advance, that's the reason of the wealth of just a few.
@@WeasleyDodds Well no, the UK was able to transition into industrial revolution because of the amount of resources they got from their colonies all over the world, allowing them to increase production as they no longer had to worry as much about food or mining resources. Also it seems to me like a very low understanding about colonialism when some less educated people on the subject instantly bind it with slavery. Those two are not the same things, many parts of the world (many islands for instance) were colonized and didn't have a native population at all. So yes, through wars and fighting and extortion and exploitation our human society has evolved technologically. That doesn't mean slavery is good however, but it most certainly contributed towards progress.
@@taserrr again, it wasn't about advance it was about hoard resources and power for just a few. What kind of withewashed text books do you read? Are you a descendant of one of those colonizers? Or just a edgy boot licker? It was slavery not just physical slavery but cultural and most countries that suffered through it cant recover from it. You are just proving right the problem that the game have.
Well done for coming forward and addressing the theme Adam. Although I’ve not played the game (and for a combination of reasons most likely wouldn’t going forward) I can attest to that feeling of wanting to speak up against the abhorrent nature of our history on a subject as sensitive and shaming as colonialism. Even if it’s just to highlight that a board game has trod clumsily and insensitively on a serious theme and packaged and sold it and you’re not condoning it. It’s good that you did something like this to address that. 👍🏻
Yeah the theme is a tough one to swallow. I also still really love this game. Who knows they may do a re theme. I bought the version with the expansions and I can see a way to keep the core gameplay and modernize it a bit.
After watching this and looking the comments, it's not the colonial theme I have an issue with, it's the brown worker pieces used on plantations! That seems incredibly out of touch nowadays
Finally finished it. Wow Great Western Trail and Puerto Rico on the list, lets see where do we begin .First Adam. I need you to research house N!@## and the term Field N!@##. Google it. And then play Peurto rico and tell me why we POC folk shouldn't be offended as this game. It's a term that has followed and still does throughout our existence, as we are constantly seperated between the "good ones" and the "bad ones" and its hard playing a game like puerto rico and not seeing that embedded into the design. Goodness. Little brown dots working plantations and brought here on the boat. The good ones work in the house. Yeah... this is the most racist game out there. I love the wrestletalk group, but there was criticism last year about the lack of diversity on the channel and this pick reinforces it. Then Great Western Trail, lets play agame where we wipe indigenous people off their land. There are tons of low rule euros that, even if we strip the team, are better . And to the fact, Puerto rico isn't a heavy or even a heavy medium game. I once played with my mom and grandmother for the first time before they became offended. Yes, a lot of games are built on dark themes, but few have it as BLATANT as in Puerto rico. IT's right there in your face, you own slaves, you put them the plantation and then you put them in the house if they are good. SHOW me a game with that blatant a theme out there. Games like endeavor have at least tried to address colonialism in games without getting too far away from the game game element. As an african-american who is firmly in the board game space (i own some 500) its hard for african-american friends to want to play a game that incorporates the theme of enslaving their ancestors so strongly. Worst game experience (as i watch the heavy game list) was teaching a girlfriend Great Western Trail for the first time (we both were learning) and both the reviewer and throughout the book they refer to native americans as Indians.
It's a shame the community is currently in such a state that you feel pressured to make a video essentially apologizing for liking and recommending the "wrong" game. Puerto Rico is a great game, period. It held the top spot on BGG for years, meaning that far more than a handful of people have thoroughly enjoyed it. A few people in a comments section saying how uncomfortable it makes them will never change that. What I don't understand is why people can't just choose to play what they like, and instead have to focus so hard on ensuring that nobody else plays what they can't emotionally handle. Anyway, keep loving Puerto Rico. It's a game that you can become truly good at over repeated plays, because it offers a lot of depth that isn't immediately apparent. BGA also has a great implementation if you ever want to play it online.
We had a guest lecture from by Prof. Dr. Olusoga of Aston University in Burmingham. He said that the biggest problem concerning colonialism is that history has become a safe space for most of people. They don't want to concern themselves with the dark chapters of their country's history. And the best thing he said was "History is messy. It's not something that should first and foremost make you feel good. It should tell you something". Therefore I really really like the fact that you did this video. It shows that you are not part of the problem.
So in my opinion it is okay to have fun playing Puerto Rico. I mean as long as you're not a dick about it and call it "enslaved worker placement game".
The US has a military presence in 150 countries so another big problem about colonialism is that we're spoken to by academia as if colonialism isn't ongoing
The lecture I was talking about was part of a cultural studies seminar with the titel "Capitalism, Commerce and a History of Forced Labour". So I don't know anything about colonialism in the present. What you're talking about would not technically be labled colonialism though, would it? The US has forces stationed in Germany, but we're not part of America. They don't grab land and make it "New America" like the puritans made "New England". I'm not meaning the state btw.
device won't let me scroll to the proper spot. Yes it's called neocolonialism, because effectively, it's still "give me your country's wealth or we'll end you with economic sanctions or bombs". Germany is a very "Western/ aka white" example . Just like we in the states don't call mass incarceration slavery, but here we are sentencing/locking up Black men at exponentially on purpose
@@sackbeardthepirate8096 Ah okay. I think I’m getting it now. Definetly gonna look into this!
@@sackbeardthepirate8096 I wouldn't put all the blame on academia when it's just as much a political and economic issue. State education boards have a say over what goes on textbooks so that it aligns with their curriculum (which is how we end up with textbooks describing slaves as "workers from Africa" and diminishing the harm of neocolonialism), and publishers cave in because they don't want to lose those big contracts.
Now yes, the authors of those textbooks (academics) bear responsibility for allowing these issues, but like any human being, they have biases, too. There was a scholar named Ron Takaki who wrote a history of the U.S. from the perspective of minority groups, but I don't think many states rushed to adopt it as a main history textbook (and if they did, it was probably as a "supplementary" source for advanced classes, not all classes).
Puertorrican here. I think it's really great that you guys acknowledge the problem of colonialism in Puerto Rico and in general. The boardgame doesn't offend me but I would like that people playing the game know that it's a big problem and a a sad situation for our precious little Island. Puerto Rico is one of the oldest colony and we suffer because of it. Great video, great channel. Peace and Love 🇵🇷💕
We do?
@@ivanpabon2741 he probably meant to say "suffered"
@@chillingcapybara8528 true
I love how you navigated this. Brought the issue up, recognized the history of your place, still acknowledged that you're still a fan of it yet on board with a re-theme if one happens, and can totally get behind anybody who the game doesn't sit well with.
This let's you keep your video up, and you can link to this video with a well timed card link in that one, and I don't know I feel everyone can walk away from the videos feeling ok
Soeaking as a white male Canadian, I desperately want to seek out your new recommendation here, as my part native wife will totally get a kick of that 😂
Never played Puerto Rico but Spirit Island id my absolute favorite board game. And I'm happy for the shout out.
*is
I love the way u explain things and talk about your personal experience with games your a king mate
As a Puertorrican, I appreciate you having this conversation. I’ve never played it, but I’m sure the mechanics are its redeeming qualities. I’m hoping it can get a new life with a new theme, although its development should absolutely include people from here.
Ultimately, a lot of games are based on some really dark real life themes. Monopoly is based on some of the very worst excesses of capitalism, after all, & it's one of the most popular family board games out there. Plenty of games are based on war or political strife, which is rarely a happy subject at the best of times & can often really gloss over that through abstraction. I mean, one popular party game has one player being *actual Hitler*, for goodness' sake!
If you're a sensitive person who actually cares about other humans beings, then it's natural & admirable to wrestle with these subjects. I think Puerto Rico's issue is more that it doesn't acknowledge the darker elements, either in a satirical or blunt manner. Nobody likes real murder, but we can divorce the reality of murder from games like Cluedo when it's upfront about what it is: it isn't as if it's pretending murder isn't a horrible thing to happen.
So perhaps that's the way forward. Acknowledge history is full of horrible atrocities, but this is a game: an abstraction, not a reenactment. Some people can't do that, & that's fine: others can, & that's fine too. Some would argue there are limits of taste (though given Cards Against Humanity is a thing, I genuinely wouldn't know what it is) but it does seem a personal matter for a lot of folk.
And if anything, playing these sorts of games and themes should make people both question the background and history. Some people will have no idea about these parts of history but hopefully playing something like this gets them interested in finding out more about it.
@@walksinthedarkness Indeed, it can end up being a very rewarding experience, warts and all.
@@alharron2145 My thoughts exactly and hopefully it leads to you and the rest of the players having an interesting discussion about it. The biggest mistakes are made when we don't discuss these historic periods of time.
@@walksinthedarkness I think it goes back to the comedic concept of “punching up vs punching down”. I disagree with you. I’m not Puerto Rican, but from a former British colony as well and I think Adam’s closing statement put it eloquently. Some designers or publishers might have the privilege of carving pinball machines out of an oppressed culture’s past and their consumers might see no issues with that because there’s no way they can associate with it. The reason why it’s problematic is the same reason why a social deduction game with a 9/11 theme or a euro game about efficient transportation of Jewish, polish and soviet prisoners by German Reich during WW2 would be outrageously problematic. If modern board gaming has to truly become a global medium of entertainment (board games are universal, but I mean the hobby growing past it’s American and Eurocentric sphere in its modern form), then there are bigger challenges to tackle than just localization. Fortunately, the hobby usually attracts very sweet people who tend to be open minded and it looks as if we’re on the right path. Also, highly recommended No pun included’s review of Pax pamir - Efka and Elaine talk more about colonialism and how it’s represented in board game + address some controversy around the first edition of that game.
What I’m saying, it really depends how a part of history is framed for a board game theme. Spirit island punches up, you get to fight colonial powers; where as something like Puerto Rico gamifies exploitation (punching down). Just because they have the similar themes, doesn’t mean that they wrapped player agency around the same aspect of it - and you may not necessarily even get nudged to explore the vulgarity behind it - in fact it’s usually the opposite.
An actual Puerto Rican here saying thank you for considering our struggle and perspective. It's a hell of a lot more than our colonizers have ever done for us. Keep up the good work.
This could actually make for an interesting series! Something about games that have outdated or offensive themes but may be mechanically sound or even good. Engaging in conversation about what changes we could all make for the better is always good!
There are many people in this world without the integrity to consider context. So glad to see you guys are willing to go out of your way to do so. Thank you, Adam.
Actual Puerto Rican here, 0 clue this game existed and take 0 offense to the game lol it’s a game.
This game is about setting up plantations and other resource fields. The background is in colonial Puerto Rico, the brownish worker pieces that players place on plantations represent slaves.
@@ChaBox998 And?
It's not about taking offense, it's about being critical of the art/entertainment one consumes. You know, basic art/history literacy that wouid expand your horizons.
@@outkast978 are you even puerto rican? Also, holy shit you are L A T E
@@battlericky17 yes, and yes the miracle of the internet, truly incredible.
New Frontiers is considered an update of Puerto Rico. And it should be getting an expansion this year.
I didn't see a single comment about Puerto Rico, and it is just a board game so I feel this video although trying to cover all your bases to not offend anyone, was unnecessary. There was also a game about cattle rustling, which in reality is the biggest cause of climate change and tortures and kills billions of animals every year, and there's no video about that. I doubt Jews are offended by Secret Hitler, there's also games based around pandemics, fires, murder, gangsters, various invasions of countries like France, Italy, Spain etc which could be "problematic" if it's affected you directly, but it's fine because we understand that they're just themed games and offense is never given, only taken. Don't worry so much, don't apologise and review what you want.
Respect for taking your time to engage into the conversation rather than shying away from it. If the game ever does get a re-themed edition I'll definitely have to try it out as it sounds similar to one of my favourites, Race for the Galaxy. Keep up the good work 👍
It can be hard to grapple with something like this because, on the one hand, I'd very much not enjoy playing a game called "Ireland" where you're tasked to command a Black and Tan paramilitary and subjugate the island one massacre at a time. On the other hand, I've quite enjoyed Risk and Sid Meier's Civilization on PC, and those games let you conquer the entire world, launch nukes at people for lolz, and generally be a maniac. The difference being, of course, it's either a total fictionalization or places every people group on equal footing at the beginning and lets you completely rewrite history based on the course of play.
For me, at least, the difference between "fun game about taking over the world" versus "making light of the suffering of others" comes in finding the right setup to keep it relatively abstract. Grim or dark themes in and of themselves aren't problematic for me, just look at how much fun Warhammer 40K can be. The moral issue is whether you're reducing empathy for a real world situation by putting it in the same mental box as Warhammer, a pretendy funtime world where none of the victims are real people and the conquerors are really just friends rolling dice and having beers.
As a native Puerto Rican, I have never even fucking heard of that game, but eitherway I'm glad over the way you address this issue in the video. Much Love 💕
Spot on. Is the setting excusable? No. Is the game good from a strictly gaming perspective? Yes. Be aware and make your own mind up about it but know that Puerto Rico comes with a strict "you may not be comfortable with this" warning
Is the setting excusable? Very much, yes.
What makes it unexcusable?
Slavery? A part of human history?
We are fine with war, plague, intrigue but slavery is too far?
Games, books, movies, pictures, paintings, comedy, satire should picture these topics and settings.
Because we wont get rid of the underlying problem when we just close our eyes about every sensitive topic
and try to built safe spaces even in frigging board games.
The next step would be canceling these kind of games and by god please stop.
You can play a game with this theme and not agree with actual colonialism. Just like you can play Secret Hitler without wanting to murder millions of people in a genocide.
Ye agree with you.
This is taking stupid proportions.
I didn’t even know this conversation was happening, but I’m glad for this video. Appreciate that a lot of euro games have the problem of being colonisation-based, whether that’s planets or countries or random patches of land. Think it should maybe have been included in Laurie’s explained video.
Good on you for being socially responsible and addressing this issue. You did it sensitively. I have never been overtly offended by a game's theme (I play plenty of video games that glorify war and violence, etc) and it is more socially accepted there for some reason. A tough theme is a tough theme and it does warrant a conversation.
Newly released Puerto Rico 1897 fixes these concerns
Man, you're amazing. (I wrote a long note here but I'll just say) Keep being awesome.
I appreciate you doing this video. As someone says below, a big issue is that Puerto Rico puts a paper thin cover over what it is doing "No these brown pieces are colonists! That came from .... a ship to work on these... plantations. Nothing to think about here!" Other games with more dark themes (Secret Hitler, Murder: Deception in Hong Kong, Dead of Winter, etc.) don't pretend that the bad people are not doing bad things. People can still enjoy playing the villain since it is fiction, but they aren't acting like what they are doing is neutral, let alone good. Also, as a side note, I dislike Puerto Rico for its gameplay, so the theme really didn't help.
Good on you Adam. Your one of the good guys. Mad respect
For those of you just now arriving who want to give Puerto Rico a shot, a new edition is coming soon based on the age where Puerto Rico was independent, allowing for a theme that promotes the island's culture and even more gorgeous art. Check out Puerto Rico 1897!
Well Done Adam for addressing this issue. I am kind of like you where I enjoy some games with questionable themes such as mental health, sexism and colonialism. But I enjoy them for the mechanics and gameplay, not the theme. It is a little colourblind of me to not realise how problematic they can be and when I bring them to game nights, I do tell them to sort of look passed the theme, reimagine certain elements or to look at it in jest, poking fun of it. But it is always good to tell anyone who wants to play those games that this game has theming that can now be seen as offensive or problematic and should be given the choice to pass on it if not comfortable. It is good to hear that you feel the same way and that this needs to be a conversation so that future board games can no longer have such questionable stories and theming.
You looked pretty uncomfortable making this video, but I appreciate you putting it out there
Iam Portuguese and i live in Portugal, here we don't have problems to speak of history, becouse history is part of our culture.
Portugueses were the first to sell a slave it was in Portugal city of Lagos, and we also were the first to abolish slavery. Don't make us proud or sad, it is history, in that time was normal. Today we are civilize(thank god)
Here we joke about black people white people pink people yellow people, people in general. We joke about people that live in South of Portugal that live in north east and west of Portugal.
We don't give a fu. If we are being called racists becouse we are not. We just don't have tabus about things. We talk about everything.
At the end of the day Portuguese people sit around the table eating and drinking with all of the people(white black pink...) talking and having a good time.
We diferenciate history from the present day.
You guys talk about the past like it's tabu your make it look like racism, like something forbidden to speak. Why? It's just a board game with a historical theme, at least for me and my friends
Portuguese here as well. Your heart is in the right place, but were not the first to sell slaves (it's a practice as old as mankind) nor the first to abolish slavery (Haiti was the first nation to abolish slavery). I know that narrative often goes around as a redemption story, but it's a myth.
Just a thought: maybe link this video in the comments/description of the previous one just to let people know that the channel has made a statement on the theme of Puerto Rico.
Good video, hard subject. I think that games can be good even if the subject matter is not that, (also just my opinion). Keep up the good work!
A suggestion for a video is a deep dive into some of the problematic themes in board games. Specifically, I’d love y’all to discuss the game “train” created by Brenda Brathwaite.
Puerto Rico basically fails to do something that the video game series Tropico does: acknowledging the theme and its grim aspects. Tropico does this with humour. Silly puns, absurd humour and a touch of dark humour... You're still playing as the dictator of a banana republic, but you know you're doing something awful while still being able to enjoy the silliness of it.
As a swede, I think I can play Puerto Rico in good conscience. Yes, we have a Viking history and we may have invaded Poland at one point, but who hasn't done that? May he who hasn't throw the first stone!
We've been invaded so many times by so many countries, that the line "but who hasn't done that?" can be interpreted both as "who hasn't invaded somebody else" in general and "who hasn't invaded Poland" in particular lmao. I agree, everybody, both European powers and native peoples all over the world played the exactly same game of power and politics. Europeans only proved to be better at this game, and that's not a reason to single them out and pander to anybody. This self-loathing exhibited by so many people in the West is irrational.
babes sweden has colonalized places in both africa and asia... if ur gonna speak, know your history first
Hey man, I don't think anyone has an issue with the game being in your your Top 10. My issue with the game is that lies (poorly) to the players. If you play Letters from Whitechapel you KNOW one of the players is a killer murdering women. If you play Archipelago you KNOW you are actively bringing European culture to an island and f&^% it. But when you play Puerto Rico it calls the slaves Colonists and pretends that no one is going to notice.
True story, I have only played Puerto Rico once. It was round a friends house and when we were done I made the comment that we'd just played Slavery: The Board Game. My two friends didn't get it and I laid out to them the actions we'd taken (people in ships, working in cotton fields, brown playing pieces etc etc). When the penny dropped the only thing they could say was "but the game said they were Colonists." Like I said on the other video. I don't hate the game for the theme (horrible though it is). I hate the game because it lies and does a s&%$ job of lying. But then calling it Slavery: The Board Game probably wouldn't sell many boxes. Unless that game is Freedom: The Underground Railroad (which SU&SD did an excellent review of many years ago).
Thank you for this. I had a similar experience and, out of a sense of balance, I am buying copies of Spirit Island for myself and my friends that I used to play Peurto Rico with.
This is such an interesting anecdote because it reveals a lot about what people are taught about colonialism in schools. Having grown up in a Latin American country (which is FAR from perfect in how it deals with its history), my immediate response to your friends would've been, "well, what exactly do you think Colonists did?" (I've had plenty of similar conversations with American friends, just not about board games lol)
@@andresgc770 I know I am just one person, but as a history teacher (and within my school, the entire history department) I know I teach colonialism as exactly what it was/is, which is slavery. It definitely depends on the teacher, but sadly there’s only so many of us who teach it correctly for what it was, and not nearly enough of us exist throughout the U.S.
My question is, did your friends stick to the “but they were called ‘colonists’”, or did they actually realize the problem of the game at that moment?
I couldn’t tell from your anecdote if they were not accepting it entirely because of what they said, or if it was the more heavy “holy shit...but why say colonists? I don’t know if I can play this again...”
@@charlesedwards2856At the time I think it was more denial. It was a few years ago and we were all new to modern board gaming. I think they couldn't believe that someone would publish a game that was so blatent about slavery that they accepted the thin gloss of "they are colonists". I actually messaged one of them off the back of the No Rolls Barred video. His response was "brillient game mechanically, but yeah "colonists" " I fairly certain the game has been gathering dust in their cupboard ever since.
Personally I tend to look at board games with a theme of colonialism as something that can be used to teach history and make point at the same time.
Kind of similar to how I view monopoly, which while a bad game in general it’s mechanics, born out of the Great Depression are there to illustrate what happens with unfettered capitalism. A lesson that unfortunately is completely missed despite it’s overwhelming popularity.
So in a way these games have a point that can be used for good. Like I could easily see a professor of diaspora or colonial history using these games to illustrate the colonial mindset and the effects it had on people being seen as a means to an end.
I'm from a former British colony.
Couldn't gaf. There's real shit going on today that are far more worthwhile pouring your heart into.
Agree with the other comments here on the ambiguous nature of thematic «sensorship».
What about everything war related f.ex.?
As a Puerto Rican. I don't understand why is this game problematic?
Adam you are in the top 10 humans of all time. I really have a lot to say about this but ill just sit back and be happy u made an extra video. I hope your ok i can hear it in your voice and see it on your face.
Thank you for telling your viewpoint on this!
Thanks for including a recommendation in the response for those who may be uncomfortable with your pick. Very proactive and empowering (at least I think so) to give an alternative and choices rather than a unilateral backtrack.
I'm sorry, but it was centuries ago. At a certain point people need to get over this sort of thing and stop taking out assumed offenses they don't really have on great games that mean no harm. I'm Greek and yet one of my favorite games of all time is Istanbul. I just love it even though in my heart the city's name is and always will be Constantinople and was conquered by the Ottoman empire under which we suffered for 400 years of occupation until the revolution of 1821. And even until recently, a mere 60years ago, the Greek population of Constantinople suffered pogroms and was persecuted and forced to leave and immigrate to Greece leaving everything they had behind. So am I supposed to not enjoy Istanbul? Screw that.
As a Latin American I find this topic very silly. Props to Adam for making this video. I am not offended in any manner by this board game, I actually hope it’s our next board game club game. Let’s be realistic. You guy’s played a game where one of you had to be hitler. There were no offensive “jokes.” Plus you guys dropped knowledge that I’m sure some didn’t know, like hitler was Australian. Thank you Adam and board game club. 2.63!!!
Yeah. It’s completely unnecessary for the channel to apologize for liking a board game. If someone is offended by this they need to grow up and look to the real problems with the world.
It’s like the people fighting to keep the Washington Redskins name. It’s offensive, there is no argument here, and it’s just football. Change the name and move on.
@@danmcharris7721 i would totally play an Australian Hitler, that wd be insane 😆😆😆 or a Canadian one, still awful but always apologizing politely 🤣🤣🤣
Poppycock! Half the boardgames out there have you destroying armies, stealing territory, bankrupting or killing opponents. They are chits on a board.
Hope you enjoy the retheme! :).
A lot of people would hide away from having this conversation at all so kudos to you Adam.
It's perfectly fine to enjoy a game about colonialism, you don't need to justify it to yourself or anyone else tbh, after all it's just a game. These top ten lists are your subjective take on the "best" games of that sub-genre, and if someone doesn't like your list, they can go ahead and make their own. I really like Crusader Kings II, but I certainly wouldn't do, or enjoy half the stuff my characters have done in that game.
Agreed. Secret Hitler is my favourite game, so I'd be a hypocrite to have them over coals for this.
Adam, thank you very much for not shying away from this conversation (and also shouting out NPI’s great video). You highlighted the problems I have with the theme and why I would not feel comfortable playing the game, while I appreciate its mechanics. Thank you for opening up this conversation for people.
As someone who is easily swayed by advertisement, I was more offended at how Food Chain thinks it's so easy to sell me a burger.
(Please note, a heavily sarcastic joke about the situation)
I understand why people can be upset by the themes in Puerto Rico, and similar to you Adam I'm aware that I'm speaking from privilege as a man from Liverpool, a city that essentially invented the slave trade and benefited hugely from it. It is a conversation we all must have, but if you think about it, this board game may actually bring about the opportunity to talk about the topic which we might not otherwise have?
Glad you made this follow up video to discuss it, continue your fabulous work
tbh the slave trade was around for thousands of years before Liverpool even existed.
Well said Adam. Puerto Rico is probably a very good starting point for a conversation about how colonialism is really fucked.
FWIW. I'd love to get the colonial rag off our canton.
There has to be a balance between preachy lectures and pearl-clutching moralism (where we can enjoy games in the context they were created, as entertainment) and allowing these kinds of games to become stumbling blocks between people and our hobby. I think the original choice, to not attempt to weigh in on something that complex in a fun board game channel, was a strong one. With that being said, I'm becoming a bigger fan of Adam Blampied and this channel all the time. Who knew the silly guy from What Culture had that kind of depth and genuine emotional resonance?
Spirit Island...anticolonialism with lightning storms and packs of wolves. It's lovely.
Ok to play games about WAR, for example, but we draw the line at colonialist slavery? Both are unsavoury aspects of history & slavery was rife all over the world, not just across the Atlantic. Africans, Asians, Romans & Vikings, to say the least, were also enslaving - so I would say all you are guilty of is not pandering enough to today’s political dogma. Give yourself a break & appreciate that board games can simply be useful lessons in history, amongst other things.
If it lacks cocaine use, it lacks the fun.
I guess if u played secret hitler and I don't think people didn't hate so I don't think people would hate this
That’s a fair point on the one hand. On the other, it does bring up the fact that outrage is subjective. We all know what happened with Hitler, including the suicide, so games like this are meant to poke fun at him in a way.
However, the U.S. still “owns” Puerto Rico, which is sadly the most apt term for it, which shows colonialism still existing. On top of that, colonialism for some other countries is still something that existed within people’s lifetimes and hurt people they may have known and cared about.
As another commenter said, history is messy and isn’t supposed to make you feel good. I guess the subjectivity depends on the theme of the game. “Secret Fascist” probably wouldn’t sell as well. People, for good or bad, have an obsession with Hitler because he’s considered the definition of being a monster (although Stalin could easily hold that record by comparison).
Desperate to see you having to do that... yes today this game could not be printed with this theme. But at the time that was not frowned upon. We can understand history by knowing not forgetting it. Let’s fight for our mind. Courage to all of you
Don't apologize on my behalf. Thanks.
-Puerto Rican
Very well said Adam, the fact you have obviously taken the time out of a busy schedule to correctly address this is sensible of you.
New Frontiers (Puerto Rico in space) replaced Puerto Rico for me. Well done on the video for addressing this messy topic. Cheers!
As a puerto rican living in the island and having no idea what a Eurogame is... WHAT DID YOU DO!? WHAT DID YOU DOOOOO!?!?!? X(
What are your thoughts on the trilogy cyclades, kemet and inis
Which one do you think is the best
Well according to his top 10 personal games vid, inis.
Thanks Adam - I learned a lot from this video.
I see this in one of two ways. The one is that while in the game space we should be allowed to pretend we are someone else and who does other things than we would normally do, and enjoy it in the process. The other is that people will be sensitive to this or that to the degree that it would make a game more uncomfortable than fun. Naturally don't play games you do not enjoy. But also be considerate to those you play games with if you know there are subjects that are difficult for them. The purpose of games is usually to have fun.
Should designers be allowed to design problematic games? Should people be allowed to play problematic games behind closed doors?... I'll leave that for youtube comments to decide.
Fecking hell. I still have a copy of Keyflower and that one's worst when you think about it.
I am Puerto Rican and I could care less. Colonialism is a part of history, was necessary for the growth of the world. Someone that is from Britain has no more privilege than someone from Puerto Rico.
Greetings fellow Puerto Rican. Born and raised in San Juan, moved to Trujillo Alto. How about you?
As a Puerto Rican, I don't find it offensive. I understand that colonialism puts a sour taste in some people's mouths, but without colonialization, many of us would not be alive right now. I'm Not Promoting what was done in the past, but that Was the Past and NOT our present and NOT our Future. This is just a Game People and if anything it's showing history of what used to be generations ago.
I really love Raiders of the North Sea as long as I don't think about the game being based on hainous crimes against humanity
i am from puerto rico board game? Never heard of it and i am from puerto rico
My own quick word about Puerto Rico: best game ever.
Definitely a conversation worth having. Love the channel Adam.
Here’s why I think I don’t agree Adam, and I mean this with genuine respect for you and what you had to say. I feel like, because board gaming is inherently an art form that has the potential to tell a grander story, it’s important for themes of colonialism to be explored along with other difficult subject matter. It challenges their players, it makes you think and feel about what that period of time was like, the discomfort it brings, especially when it deliberately places you on the dominating side of the war. It’s commentary. In today’s woke world where people are genuinely more socially conscious it’s not a bad thing to have this kind of art - even if the design intent was one of ignorance - be here to test our morals, and explore these themes in an interactive medium.
I appreciate you making this statement. I was very surprised that your initial video didn’t even mention the theme issues so I’m glad you’ve addressed it here.
As an avid board gamer with a degree in ethnic studies and as the child of war refugees impacted by colonialism, I definitely feel this conversation needs to happen more. Too many reviewers and influencers shy away from this topic and become mechanics elitists.
Stories matter. Theme and Setting (and their distortions) have immense ideological, institutional, and interpersonal impacts on people and places. I think it's also okay to own that some (most?) of the things we like are fraught with problems: I'm a huge NBA fan and I also know that basketball as an industry is run by billionaires who exploit the masses through sport as an investment. I also think it's deeply important to be critical of any industry such as board games when considering what narratives and messages they wish to tell.
I'm not saying we can't tell lots of stories, but I definitely feel some type of way about a board game designer profiteering off of a game about a historically marginalized group without challenging our thinking through its gameplay as critique. It's also incredibly deflating when these stories are appropriated for economic benefit of the company and game designer without directing real resources to the communities they have effectively mined for that story. It's also incredibly important to consider our own power to make change: if enough people campaigned to make noise with Seyfarth and the companies publishing the game, then we could sunset/reskin/republish the game or rethink how that story is told with new copies.
Of note: I've been shut down by an influencer online for criticizing Kemet's literal usage of white power and slavery in its game because they refused to touch the topic and did not critically engage with this criticism of it. We've got a long way to go.
More people should play Archipelago....
Eh. As a guy who came from a country that was under colonial powers for more than 300 years, I don't understand why people are up in arms regarding a theme of a boardgame. It's just weird.
Two words: Virtue signaling. In places like the UK and US it's become the new past time to be offended on others behalf.
These are board games, people. Enjoy them for what they are or go find something else that floats your boat. This was Adam’s opinion, and you may not always agree. We won’t always agree on opinion, but we can still get along. Thank you Adam for not wavering in your opinion of the game.
Adam, as an argentine (a country colonized by the Spanish crown and used as a port to suck gold out of South America) I think some people right now are very sensitive about themes that portrait a part moment when the world has standards that where nothing like ours. Porto Rico is an amazing euro game and the theme is based on a historically relevant moment. Apparently by today’s standards history is just plain racist and games should just be about apologizing for things dead people did hundreds of years ago. I understand that as a RUclips channel you probably need to make this so that a small percentage of your fan base feels like justice has been made, but at least on my part I fully understand this is a BOARD GAME CHANNEL and you are reviewing games based on how complex, fun and interesting they are. No need to go back to 7 Wonders and say you are sorry because every wonder was built by slaves. Or how the railroads on ticket to ride America were built by the Chinese that frequently blew up while making a hole on a mountain. The board game community is among the nicest ones you can find on the internet (just look at every comment section on a BG channel). So, keep doing what you are doing. You guys are awesome and this is by far my favorite board game channel (and we lost a war to you, so there).
Great to see you addressing this. It’s a weird situation the hobby finds itself in currently, much like the statues in the news recently of figures with slave trading past.
For me the point is to raise awareness of the historical context. We don’t need to stop playing the games, but publishers going forward need to start engaging with this.
Keep rolling 🎲🎲
No need to apologize. The structure of this or any other game is what it is, and yes, it can be rethemed in a lot of different ways, I'm sure, and everything from that front would probably otherwise be fine. Heck, it's the 21st century, make a space theme out of it.
At the same time, I am a believer that to outright ban a game or whatever based on its theme being something that offends people is not the end all answer. Such things can and should be used as teaching moments to say yeah, this was a thing back then, we are aware of it, and understand that it is not something we would or should ever do to today to people of a specific culture. The point is, let the game be the game, and when as a teacher, you can find moments like this where you discuss subjects and curriculums that are not just your own and come away with more of an education than you went in for, everyone wins. And that is exactly what happened here.
I'm just shocked that people can be offended by a game. Its a bit hilarious to me.
A great video tactfully addressing a very delicate topic. I've never played Puerto Rico, but playing Archipelago with people has started some very interesting conversations. The game makes it clear that the players are colonizers and that the native population can and will rebel against you if you take too many oppressive actions. There's a literal 'Slavery' card that can be used by a player who purchases it, and one player discussed the mechanical implications of it while acknowledging the morally bankrupt nature of the practice. Part of the great time we had that night was having those discussions, especially when it was revealed that one of the players was secretly working with the native population and was secretly hoping the other player would purchase that card, as it would have made sparking revolution easier.
I think that by avoiding the topic altogether, Puerto Rico does its historical source material a disservice, and robs some of the experience from the players. I'm glad you put this video together and brought the subject up in this manner. We do not become better people unless we learn from history, and we do not learn from history if we do not talk about it.
Its staggering the amount of comment thinking colonialism was a good thing
Colonialism was a force of change across the world. We will never know what those peoples and nations could have been if anything without the influences of the nations that colonized them. But we also have to accept that this has been going on for many centuries and even millennia on different scales. From just migrating into new regions and taking them over (How Homo Sapians pushed out Neanderthal) to full militarized campaigns of conquest. I mean Rome was one of the largest colonial powers in the world as they stretched across most of europe.
Is that to say everything brought there, that came about because of circumstances there, etc was 100% bad. No, adversity is the mother of all invention after all. But its more people have a gut-reaction to being told they are innately evil because of something they have had no part in. And often times we do imply inherent guilt simply because you are from a particular nation or from a particular ethnic group (See Anti-Semitism for it being used as a weapon)
So were there bad things from Colonialism? Yeah, horrible things like attempted genocide to full genocide. But telling little Billy that he is somehow morally guilty for the acts of people thousands of miles away and hundreds of years ago just because of the accident of being born a specific skin color or from a specific nation.
It was a great thing, we wouldn't have gotten to the industrial revolution without it, you wouldn't be typing on a computer, actually you'd probably be dead because science wouldn't be as advanced and 2/3rd of children would die before reaching the age of 2.
@@taserrr what kind of level of alienation must a people have to gave that kind of answer? Slavery, violence and steel resources from others is not the reason human race has advance, that's the reason of the wealth of just a few.
@@WeasleyDodds Well no, the UK was able to transition into industrial revolution because of the amount of resources they got from their colonies all over the world, allowing them to increase production as they no longer had to worry as much about food or mining resources.
Also it seems to me like a very low understanding about colonialism when some less educated people on the subject instantly bind it with slavery. Those two are not the same things, many parts of the world (many islands for instance) were colonized and didn't have a native population at all.
So yes, through wars and fighting and extortion and exploitation our human society has evolved technologically. That doesn't mean slavery is good however, but it most certainly contributed towards progress.
@@taserrr again, it wasn't about advance it was about hoard resources and power for just a few. What kind of withewashed text books do you read? Are you a descendant of one of those colonizers? Or just a edgy boot licker?
It was slavery not just physical slavery but cultural and most countries that suffered through it cant recover from it.
You are just proving right the problem that the game have.
"...complicated..." 🙄
Well done for coming forward and addressing the theme Adam. Although I’ve not played the game (and for a combination of reasons most likely wouldn’t going forward)
I can attest to that feeling of wanting to speak up against the abhorrent nature of our history on a subject as sensitive and shaming as colonialism. Even if it’s just to highlight that a board game has trod clumsily and insensitively on a serious theme and packaged and sold it and you’re not condoning it. It’s good that you did something like this to address that. 👍🏻
It takes bravery to speak a truth to the common power. The fact you felt this needed to be said speaks volumes to you and your character.
People enjoy war board games why not colonialism board games? Its just a board game...
Outstanding video
You are okay Adam
Yeah the theme is a tough one to swallow. I also still really love this game. Who knows they may do a re theme. I bought the version with the expansions and I can see a way to keep the core gameplay and modernize it a bit.
I appreciate that you made this video, but you really didn’t have to. It’s just a board game man.
Tbh my opinion is that it's a board game so it doesn't have that much of an effect on me, games could be used as a history lesson though
Even though you did this with a lot of thought and empathy... I still really wish you hadn't :'( ....board games. Yay!
People really can't just let things be fun
All this fake outrage over a GAME makes me wanna vomit.
After watching this and looking the comments, it's not the colonial theme I have an issue with, it's the brown worker pieces used on plantations! That seems incredibly out of touch nowadays
I'm curious. Are there eurogames about building a human trafficking and exploitation empire? Oh, wait, there's Puerto Rico.
It annoys me as I know I'd absolutely love it mechanically but I just can't stomach it after what I've heard.
Finally finished it. Wow Great Western Trail and Puerto Rico on the list, lets see where do we begin .First Adam. I need you to research house N!@## and the term Field N!@##. Google it. And then play Peurto rico and tell me why we POC folk shouldn't be offended as this game. It's a term that has followed and still does throughout our existence, as we are constantly seperated between the "good ones" and the "bad ones" and its hard playing a game like puerto rico and not seeing that embedded into the design.
Goodness. Little brown dots working plantations and brought here on the boat. The good ones work in the house. Yeah... this is the most racist game out there. I love the wrestletalk group, but there was criticism last year about the lack of diversity on the channel and this pick reinforces it. Then Great Western Trail, lets play agame where we wipe indigenous people off their land.
There are tons of low rule euros that, even if we strip the team, are better . And to the fact, Puerto rico isn't a heavy or even a heavy medium game. I once played with my mom and grandmother for the first time before they became offended.
Yes, a lot of games are built on dark themes, but few have it as BLATANT as in Puerto rico. IT's right there in your face, you own slaves, you put them the plantation and then you put them in the house if they are good. SHOW me a game with that blatant a theme out there.
Games like endeavor have at least tried to address colonialism in games without getting too far away from the game game element.
As an african-american who is firmly in the board game space (i own some 500) its hard for african-american friends to want to play a game that incorporates the theme of enslaving their ancestors so strongly. Worst game experience (as i watch the heavy game list) was teaching a girlfriend Great Western Trail for the first time (we both were learning) and both the reviewer and throughout the book they refer to native americans as Indians.
It's a shame the community is currently in such a state that you feel pressured to make a video essentially apologizing for liking and recommending the "wrong" game. Puerto Rico is a great game, period. It held the top spot on BGG for years, meaning that far more than a handful of people have thoroughly enjoyed it. A few people in a comments section saying how uncomfortable it makes them will never change that. What I don't understand is why people can't just choose to play what they like, and instead have to focus so hard on ensuring that nobody else plays what they can't emotionally handle. Anyway, keep loving Puerto Rico. It's a game that you can become truly good at over repeated plays, because it offers a lot of depth that isn't immediately apparent. BGA also has a great implementation if you ever want to play it online.
Good to see you Adam. Any thoughts on secret entrant on aew tonight