Of note. When the GWOT was going strong both Crane and Team level armorer's could build basically whatever the operators wanted (obviously within reason). There are/were some very interesting things in socom armories as far as AR style semi custom rifles.
Thumbs up. SEALs got the idea from JSOC, who had certain carbines modified for DMR use among the Sniper Operations Teams within Recce Troops, as well as one of the many options for Assaulters to accommodate attached lights, lasers, and free-floated suppressed set-ups. We're talking even before Mogadishu 1993 timeframe. 723 uppers had the "carry handles" cut off and had Weaver rails drilled and tapped to them for compact Japanese 1.5-4.5x Microdots, Hensoldt, and Leupold scopes by Unit armorer section for the DM builds. KAC made some early 1” high rings for those since they had already been making scope mounting options for the SR-25 Match Rifle. They also used modified SR-25 Match rifle float tubes with special AR-15 barrel nuts, Bushmaster V-Match free-float tubes, and initially tried Douglas match barrels shooting 68 or 69gr OTM ammo. The Douglas and other match stainless pipes burned out pretty quick on their shoot schedule, so they found a supplier for CMV steel barrels that would shoot well and used those instead. DEV took notice when working with Army JSOC, and then it spread into the SOCOM elements of the Teams. Navy sourced a lot of Lilja barrels for theirs, including 17". You can see pics of "Sawman" Sawyer with an early Recce version of what I'm talking about with the knurled aluminum float tube handguard, Leupold, Wilcox Laser, etc. In The Unit, some Teams had these with FSP cuts in the tube with holes drilled for the taper pin access, and small sections of rail drilled and tapped where necessary for the PAQ-4, Surefire P60, modified A2 VFG with integral cockpit-type push buttons for the light and IR Laser. Most of those rifles had standard Abu Dabi 723 uppers with A1 sights and shell deflectors, different types of carry handle rails, and Aimpoint 2000s, then later 5000s. (Some of those configurations were used in Sniper Teams in Ranger Regiment as well for the Sniper Team Leader 727s, and the Aimpoint 5000s transferred over on some guys' M4A1s in the 1994-1995 time period, then were replaced with Comp Ms.) The Unit Recce 723s also had Fiberlite stocks with cheek pieces, sharktooth butt pads zip-tied in-place, and Lone Star Ordnance enlarged pistol grips with swivel cover storage compartments on the bottom of the grip. The KAC MRE M4A1s largely replaced/superseded these JSOC Recce carbines since it was easier for armorers to replace barrels on the KAC free-float tubes than the elaborate workaround of the cut and modified CF or aluminum tubes. There were also the OD Green fiberglass ArmaLite tubes with threaded sockets wherever the Operator wanted them for rail section attachment. The JSOC Recce 723s with 12" tubes and suppressors were one of the unique configurations you just don't see any photos of, especially with the integrated button A2 VFGs and mini rail sections, with Front Sight Pocket cut for the FSB. When you see a fully-configured JSOCMOD Recce 723, they are very striking with the suppressor emerging from inside the float tube, like an MP5SD. There were a lot of Redi-Mags in-use back then as well. Bowflage was popular for camo, since it was an extremely matte texture.
@@westernoutpost4154 It's hard finding parts for those types of builds, especially the Lone Star Ordnance pistol grips and "CAR-15" marked cheek pieces that snap onto Fiberlite stocks. Same for the sharktooth butt pads. The stock weld you get with those sharktooth pads is superior to any other butt pad I've used on the market. Once you index, they just stick to that place and don't move.
The Recce “rabbit hole” certainly is deep. It’s hard to pick a timeframe or even a specific group when talking about rifles like these without making a super-lengthy video; I was tempted to mention the various other programs that were going on around the same time (Army SDM-R, USMC SAM-R, etc) but I chose to only mention the programs that persisted throughout the GWOT and are still being used today (albeit in very limited capacities). Thanks for watching and for your informative comment
@@InferiorRifles Throughout the history of SOF units using certain oddball AR-15 family weapons, I'm particularly interested in the 1963-1967 period, the 1980s, and early 1990s up through 1993 before we started seeing M4A1s and eventually M4s enter into service. One of the first AR-15 Light Sniper rifles was the Colt 656, which had a railed upper receiver, hooded FSB, heavy barrel, and flip-up rear sight with rounded protective ears. It was developed and operationally fielded among hand-selected snipers in Vietnam, along with 2 M-14 variants and a bolt gun by the Army to determine what direction they would go for a Sniper System. The 656 had a somewhat elevated Weaver rail integral to the upper, along with the BUIS flip-up aperture, but was fielded with a scope. Different units tried the Colt 3x and 4x scopes as well in an ad hoc DMR set-up, and we even had some of those Colt scopes in arms rooms into the early 2000s. There was a gunsmith in the Fort Bragg area who did flat top conversions for guys in The Unit dating back prior to the M4, where he drilled, tapped, and welded rails to uppers after clipping the handles off. During the XM4 trials and development, they started out with 727 uppers (M16A2 but with extended feed ramps), with different barrel profiles, eventually standardizing the 727 barrel but with a flat top, Picattiny rail and detachable handle/rear sight assy. The Unit primarily was using 723s at the time, which started out with pencil 14.5" pipes, but were quickly replaced on their intense shoot schedule with 727 barrels. Different Teams had different accessory configurations, and as they conducted a lot of joint training and deployments with DEV, they kinda fed back and forth off each other. There has always been an operational need for a light Sniper Support or DM AR-15 variant within SF, LRRPs, Infantry, Ranger Regiment, and later JSOC. There are some really cool set-ups with no online photos to-date that I've seen, that really caught my attention when I saw them.
Something about the fixed stock versus the collapsible. At the time, there was no H2 or H3 buffers for the carbine receiver extension; so, using an M4 lower with an SPR upper that had the suppressor attached was advised against by NSWC Crane. There was too much potential of breaking the rifle with that combination. With the introduction of the Mk.18 also came the H2 and H3 buffers and facilitated safe use of a collapsible stock with the Mk.12 and Recce rifles, though still not suggested by NSWC Crane.
I really enjoy these videos. It's cool to hear the history of the weapons I used to see. Being a grunt in a lucky spot allowed me to see the cool guy shit.
Missed the .300 blk recce that came in the mid 2010’s. The only photos publicly shown are Damian’s custom noveske 12.5 bbl with the geissele handguard and the AAC MPW 12.5 in one Slade’s pics along with chris Fettes
I did not discuss any one-off builds like the ones mentioned in your comment for several reasons, namely that 1.) They were not developed as part of any specific program, and 2.) The video would have been much too long. I discuss the 300BLK “Recce” in my video titled “300BLK and the US Military” ruclips.net/video/M2d3QqnqHLc/видео.html
Just found a 2.5-10 NF and even era correct for my current NSW Recce build I'm working on. I have the Mod0 and Mod1, and currently working on NSW haha. Stuffs getting expensive for sure.
Love your videos…very informative. You have given me inspiration to build clone correct rifles. Could you please provide a parts list for the seal recce? I appreciate you!!!
There were all different types of "Recce" variants pre-M4, which likely drove the M4 into being a flattop railed upper. On the Army JSOC side, they were cut 723 uppers with drilled and tapped rails on top of the shaved upper. On the Navy JSOC side, they were cut 727 uppers. M4 was in development right around that time, and early XM4s had 727 uppers with different barrel profiles, eventually settling on the 727 barrel with stepped 203 bracket cut on the forend, but with the dual heat shield handguards, 4-position RET, castle style lock nut, reinforced pivot pin bosses, and beefed-up RET thread boss on the lower. The most unique Recce rifles were in The Unit, where light and laser mounting and user interface were worked out better than most modern builds.
I was going to source the parts for a SEAL recce, but I already had a mk12 mod1 and wanted something different, so I built a mod h. Your right, you need the can and the can is sweet!!
He most likely got the 15.1" barrel from Lilja, the manufacturer of the custom profile barrel that was used for the production of the rifles. They're still produced by the same company, but I can't link it for obvious reasons. Hope that helps
There were several programs that all sought to accomplish a similar goal. The SDM-R was the Army’s concept, while the SAM-R was the Marine Corps’s. The SPR/MK12 program was SOCOM’s, and the Recce was for SEAL teams.
Of note. When the GWOT was going strong both Crane and Team level armorer's could build basically whatever the operators wanted (obviously within reason). There are/were some very interesting things in socom armories as far as AR style semi custom rifles.
Man.. now days, those KAC rail systems are more expensive than some guns.
June 2022- a KAC FF RAS auction on GB closed at over $1500
Are full length RAS discontinued now or just momentarily paused with production?
@@bdanyellz4067 They are produced in cyclic production runs; the last production run was pre covid
As of 2024 just picked one up for 450
Found one for $550 new.
Great build, and great video, as always. These videos are costing me a fortune! I'm still catching up on a Mk12 build.
Thumbs up. SEALs got the idea from JSOC, who had certain carbines modified for DMR use among the Sniper Operations Teams within Recce Troops, as well as one of the many options for Assaulters to accommodate attached lights, lasers, and free-floated suppressed set-ups. We're talking even before Mogadishu 1993 timeframe.
723 uppers had the "carry handles" cut off and had Weaver rails drilled and tapped to them for compact Japanese 1.5-4.5x Microdots, Hensoldt, and Leupold scopes by Unit armorer section for the DM builds. KAC made some early 1” high rings for those since they had already been making scope mounting options for the SR-25 Match Rifle.
They also used modified SR-25 Match rifle float tubes with special AR-15 barrel nuts, Bushmaster V-Match free-float tubes, and initially tried Douglas match barrels shooting 68 or 69gr OTM ammo. The Douglas and other match stainless pipes burned out pretty quick on their shoot schedule, so they found a supplier for CMV steel barrels that would shoot well and used those instead.
DEV took notice when working with Army JSOC, and then it spread into the SOCOM elements of the Teams. Navy sourced a lot of Lilja barrels for theirs, including 17".
You can see pics of "Sawman" Sawyer with an early Recce version of what I'm talking about with the knurled aluminum float tube handguard, Leupold, Wilcox Laser, etc.
In The Unit, some Teams had these with FSP cuts in the tube with holes drilled for the taper pin access, and small sections of rail drilled and tapped where necessary for the PAQ-4, Surefire P60, modified A2 VFG with integral cockpit-type push buttons for the light and IR Laser.
Most of those rifles had standard Abu Dabi 723 uppers with A1 sights and shell deflectors, different types of carry handle rails, and Aimpoint 2000s, then later 5000s.
(Some of those configurations were used in Sniper Teams in Ranger Regiment as well for the Sniper Team Leader 727s, and the Aimpoint 5000s transferred over on some guys' M4A1s in the 1994-1995 time period, then were replaced with Comp Ms.)
The Unit Recce 723s also had Fiberlite stocks with cheek pieces, sharktooth butt pads zip-tied in-place, and Lone Star Ordnance enlarged pistol grips with swivel cover storage compartments on the bottom of the grip.
The KAC MRE M4A1s largely replaced/superseded these JSOC Recce carbines since it was easier for armorers to replace barrels on the KAC free-float tubes than the elaborate workaround of the cut and modified CF or aluminum tubes.
There were also the OD Green fiberglass ArmaLite tubes with threaded sockets wherever the Operator wanted them for rail section attachment.
The JSOC Recce 723s with 12" tubes and suppressors were one of the unique configurations you just don't see any photos of, especially with the integrated button A2 VFGs and mini rail sections, with Front Sight Pocket cut for the FSB.
When you see a fully-configured JSOCMOD Recce 723, they are very striking with the suppressor emerging from inside the float tube, like an MP5SD.
There were a lot of Redi-Mags in-use back then as well. Bowflage was popular for camo, since it was an extremely matte texture.
Thanks for that run down, cool info I had no idea about! You should have a RUclips channel. I'd be there 👍
@@westernoutpost4154 It's hard finding parts for those types of builds, especially the Lone Star Ordnance pistol grips and "CAR-15" marked cheek pieces that snap onto Fiberlite stocks.
Same for the sharktooth butt pads. The stock weld you get with those sharktooth pads is superior to any other butt pad I've used on the market. Once you index, they just stick to that place and don't move.
The Recce “rabbit hole” certainly is deep. It’s hard to pick a timeframe or even a specific group when talking about rifles like these without making a super-lengthy video; I was tempted to mention the various other programs that were going on around the same time (Army SDM-R, USMC SAM-R, etc) but I chose to only mention the programs that persisted throughout the GWOT and are still being used today (albeit in very limited capacities). Thanks for watching and for your informative comment
@@InferiorRifles Throughout the history of SOF units using certain oddball AR-15 family weapons, I'm particularly interested in the 1963-1967 period, the 1980s, and early 1990s up through 1993 before we started seeing M4A1s and eventually M4s enter into service.
One of the first AR-15 Light Sniper rifles was the Colt 656, which had a railed upper receiver, hooded FSB, heavy barrel, and flip-up rear sight with rounded protective ears. It was developed and operationally fielded among hand-selected snipers in Vietnam, along with 2 M-14 variants and a bolt gun by the Army to determine what direction they would go for a Sniper System.
The 656 had a somewhat elevated Weaver rail integral to the upper, along with the BUIS flip-up aperture, but was fielded with a scope.
Different units tried the Colt 3x and 4x scopes as well in an ad hoc DMR set-up, and we even had some of those Colt scopes in arms rooms into the early 2000s.
There was a gunsmith in the Fort Bragg area who did flat top conversions for guys in The Unit dating back prior to the M4, where he drilled, tapped, and welded rails to uppers after clipping the handles off.
During the XM4 trials and development, they started out with 727 uppers (M16A2 but with extended feed ramps), with different barrel profiles, eventually standardizing the 727 barrel but with a flat top, Picattiny rail and detachable handle/rear sight assy.
The Unit primarily was using 723s at the time, which started out with pencil 14.5" pipes, but were quickly replaced on their intense shoot schedule with 727 barrels.
Different Teams had different accessory configurations, and as they conducted a lot of joint training and deployments with DEV, they kinda fed back and forth off each other.
There has always been an operational need for a light Sniper Support or DM AR-15 variant within SF, LRRPs, Infantry, Ranger Regiment, and later JSOC.
There are some really cool set-ups with no online photos to-date that I've seen, that really caught my attention when I saw them.
Something about the fixed stock versus the collapsible. At the time, there was no H2 or H3 buffers for the carbine receiver extension; so, using an M4 lower with an SPR upper that had the suppressor attached was advised against by NSWC Crane. There was too much potential of breaking the rifle with that combination. With the introduction of the Mk.18 also came the H2 and H3 buffers and facilitated safe use of a collapsible stock with the Mk.12 and Recce rifles, though still not suggested by NSWC Crane.
Breaking the rifle wasn't the issue; bolt carrier bounce on full auto was the reason. Alan Brown and Vince Jiga have spoken about it in depth.
I really enjoy these videos. It's cool to hear the history of the weapons I used to see. Being a grunt in a lucky spot allowed me to see the cool guy shit.
Thank you for sharing an revised look at this platform. Love the info you put out!
Awesome video bro, where has your channel been all my life,new subscriber
These are my favorite type of videos. Keep up the good work sir!
Missed the .300 blk recce that came in the mid 2010’s. The only photos publicly shown are Damian’s custom noveske 12.5 bbl with the geissele handguard and the AAC MPW 12.5 in one Slade’s pics along with chris Fettes
I did not discuss any one-off builds like the ones mentioned in your comment for several reasons, namely that 1.) They were not developed as part of any specific program, and 2.) The video would have been much too long. I discuss the 300BLK “Recce” in my video titled “300BLK and the US Military”
ruclips.net/video/M2d3QqnqHLc/видео.html
Fantastic rifle. I’ve got a NSW recce and a MK12 mod 1. Two rifles I’ll never get rid of
Just found a 2.5-10 NF and even era correct for my current NSW Recce build I'm working on. I have the Mod0 and Mod1, and currently working on NSW haha. Stuffs getting expensive for sure.
Built the NSW with the KAC rail and found a VCOG 1-8 SCO which is on it now. The 15.1 and AEM5 is a little gassy LOL, but still one of my favorites.
Glad u put it back up. Loved the first one.
There’s just something about the rifles of this era that fascinates me.
Btw, does anyone know what year the KAC Free Float RAS entered service?
Love your videos…very informative. You have given me inspiration to build clone correct rifles. Could you please provide a parts list for the seal recce? I appreciate you!!!
i love those niche clone builds
The amount of knowledge is unreal lol
Is that base plate for the mag a standard magpul usgi? Or did you need a special one for the 20 rounder?
2 of them were used them in op red wing
Very interesting! I always thought the RECCE came after the Mk12.. I'm almost done my RECCE I just need the handguard..
There were all different types of "Recce" variants pre-M4, which likely drove the M4 into being a flattop railed upper. On the Army JSOC side, they were cut 723 uppers with drilled and tapped rails on top of the shaved upper.
On the Navy JSOC side, they were cut 727 uppers. M4 was in development right around that time, and early XM4s had 727 uppers with different barrel profiles, eventually settling on the 727 barrel with stepped 203 bracket cut on the forend, but with the dual heat shield handguards, 4-position RET, castle style lock nut, reinforced pivot pin bosses, and beefed-up RET thread boss on the lower.
The most unique Recce rifles were in The Unit, where light and laser mounting and user interface were worked out better than most modern builds.
What scope rings and red dot cap are those? I need them in my life.
Good info…keep the videos coming
Cool video. Nice rifle.
Very cool.
I was wondering what happened to your original upload..
Best clone build to do if you can get the can
I was going to source the parts for a SEAL recce, but I already had a mk12 mod1 and wanted something different, so I built a mod h. Your right, you need the can and the can is sweet!!
Its more of you need the damn HG to make these things work. The cans can still be had vs the HG pricing is nucking futs! haha!
What barrel did you use for this build?
He most likely got the 15.1" barrel from Lilja, the manufacturer of the custom profile barrel that was used for the production of the rifles. They're still produced by the same company, but I can't link it for obvious reasons. Hope that helps
@@Monarch0451 It does help. I know Lilja still offers the barrel and wondered if he went that route.
What about SDM-R?
There were several programs that all sought to accomplish a similar goal. The SDM-R was the Army’s concept, while the SAM-R was the Marine Corps’s. The SPR/MK12 program was SOCOM’s, and the Recce was for SEAL teams.
Mk262 is what rob o niel shot bin laden in the face with out of a hk416 sbr I'd imagine...
70 barns tsx
Might as well have thrown cans on m4s