Has CANON ABANDONED the CINEMA CAMERA MARKET?
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- Опубликовано: 10 мар 2024
- The Canon Cinema EOS line feels like it has been ignored for quite some time. For a couple of years now, we have been told of umpteen products in the pipeline, drooled over patents and languished over what may be, but Canon is yet to produce a new cinema camera since the r5C and prior to that, the C70.
The Canon c200 mkii is long overdue, and possible doesn’t exist.
While the rumour sites speculate that Canon will present nothing at NAB 2024 in April we believe there is a high chance that Canon will respond to Nikons acquisition of RED DIGITAL CINEMA quickly with a major announcement before shipping a new camera around September ahead of the IBC 2024 show in Europe.
Specifications for either a C200mkii, c300mkiv, c500mkiii, Canon r5mkii, Canon R1 or Canon R5c are scarce.
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Lets us know what you think the Canon CINEMA EOS TEAM is up too. Do you think CANON are going to release something major in response to NIKON’s acquisition of RED DIGITAL CINEMA?
I think Canon's been waiting for this so they have good reason to buy Nikon.
@@backyardwindow now that would be news
A full frame, internal ND cine camera (C90?) would be amazing. A C90 with the 24-105 F2.8 would be a dream
That canon c90 sounds like a dream
@@EntrNmHre There's even a retail outlet listing for it online - A french company. I'm sat with the money for it burning a hole in my pocket because a C70 or R5C doesn't meet all my requirements! Come on Canon!
Im in France, send me the link and I’ll check it out.
"C50" based on Canon's naming structure.
@@backyardwindow so like a c-line of r50?
I don't believe Canon has ever truly tried to make a cinema camera. C700 was a essentially a failed proof of concept. "Canon Cinema Camera" is a like of exceptional Documentary cameras. Not to be compare side-by-side with Arri, Red, or Sony's top end Cinema Lines.
Man you nailed Canon on the C700 front, do you remember the purple ghosting problem it had …. man that caused a few productions issues back in the day.
I've been saying it's likely that Canon has abandoned cinema cameras for a few years now but everyone thinks I'm crazy to think that. IMHO, C70 was barely a cinema camera, the R5C isn't a cinema camera, it's a very nice mirrorless camera and other than those two, the last cinema camera was the C300 MKIII almost four years ago and the FX9 buried it in the marketplace even though overall the C300 MKIII is a better camera. I own three Canon cinema cameras, still use them for live events/streaming, podcast and some pro work and I would love to see Canon come back bigger than ever as I'm not that impressed with the Sony FX cameras, even though I have to rent and shoot them a lot. When I get calls as a freelancer today though, it's Sony 95% of the time.
If you look at cinema cameras as a business, it has been a lousy business for Canon. I'm convinced that abject sales failure of cameras like the C500 MKII and the C700 and the complete and utter domination of the Sony FX cameras in the marketplace may have convinced Canon to just say no to new cinema cameras. And I wouldn't blame them, it's a tough market with small numbers compared to stills and all of the other ancillary imaging and copier businesses Canon has.
I think Canon has possibly adopted the Millenial/Gen Z thing about quiet quitting and they are probably done in this space, they just never announced it. I hope we are wrong, would love to see a C200 MKII and a C300 MKIV. That's the frustrating thing, Canon has incredible engineering and design, they have the capability to make the best cameras on the market by far. Where they screw up is ALWAYs omitting crucial, game-breaking features. C300 MKII, great camera, no 4K 60p. C200, great camera, no 10-bit 4:2:2. C70, horrible form factor, great picture and features but no SDI output?! People don't like that thing where your $7,500 camera is missing that one crucial feature and to get it, you have to go the next model up which could be 50-125% more expensive. That's a suckers game and Canon loved to play it.
C300 MKIII, I thought they changed the game, I don't think it was missing any big, crucial features, but it was too late, Sony changed the game with the FX9. I don't even think the FX9 is that great of a camera but it has a good picture, the ability to shoot FF or S35 is excellent, as are the E VND and AF. Canon was too late, they did the deliberate product crippling too long on too many cameras and many people jumped ship. Not that Sony doesn't product cripple too, they do but on things that are less important to most shooters.
Hi Dan, you raise some very important points. Here in France, all the commercial grab and go work is SONY, Canon still holds a very small space for Doco work, but the Sony FX6, Red Komodo's, super cheap Zcam's, and then the long list of any brands mirrorless cameras from Panasonic (s5mkiix), Fujifilm XH2s, Sony A7siii or FX3 lines have just crushed Canon’s ability to get a foothold. My biggest annoyance with the c300mkiii and c500mkii is you cant run the very expensive Canon EVF and the touch screen at the same time. When released I couldn't believe Canon had launched a 20K (all taxes included) c500mkii with only one native OM out. Crazy.
Don’t think Canon Raw Light is a patent infringement of Red’s patent, it’s a compressed format which bypasses it.
Compressed RAW is exactly what the RED / Nikon patent pertains to ...
I love how you pronounce Nikon both Nykon and Nickon in the same video! 🤣🤣🤣
😁 covering all the bases brother…..
I wish the yanks would stop saying Nykon! As an aussie myself it's always been Nickon! hahaha@@EntrNmHre
@@Mr.Zen_73 Same Aussie born Aussie breed….yeh its hard on this platform not matter which way you say it, some one will say other wise….BRAW and B-RAW is a big one….
I see a small internal ND, super fast processor (GlobalShutterKiller) AI focus assist, box style camera coming. They don't need a full line of them. Just 2. Prosumer and Pro. RF mount and all the new glass coming, second to none. I have 2 C70's and an R5c. I love the C70 image. This could last me a while. I don't NEED a new camera. I'd entertain the idea of one. If I don't get what I expect here, I'd also think about a Nikon down the road if it had an RF mount option with the RED sensor. BUt that won't happen. Canon is due to drop something amazing.
AI focus assist sounds very compelling. Exciting times my friend.
I've been using a couple of Canon C70 cameras for over a year now and they've been meeting all my needs for corporate work as well as narrative projects. Sure I could go with a faster sensor read out, full frame without having to use a speedbooster, and maybe an sdi port, but these would be minor upgrades for me. Would eventually consider a "box" form factor if the internal nd system as well as the 4 audio inputs would still be available
Hey Damien, don't get me wrong the C70 is a fantastic camera - but the form factor isn't great when rigged for sound and a bigger production. The days seem to be gone when cameras were longer than wider, maybe this is what is so appealing about the box camera design…The C70 it is also still my go to camera with my R5 for corporate stuff as well, narrative is a different kettle of fish.
With canon they are always about not cannibalizing and also they usually wait for enough updates for it to make sense. Covid also slowed down a ton of production. Sony had huge supply issues but still announced cameras that people just couldnt find. Canon doesnt want to operate like that.
Sony for me is a fast tech camera company - everything is disposable after one season.
DGO & Global Shutter can’t be used at the same time based on current tech
True, but what we see is a couple of years behind what is actually developed before deployment. Blackmagics new sensors are good example of this.
Didn't Canon shut down third party manufacturers making RF mount lenses?
I think they have, but only for AF type lenses.
NAB is right around the corner. Canon and Sony don't typically launch big, new cinema camera launches every year. They typically do it every 4vor 5 years.
Just wait until NAB. I'd not then, don't panic, wait until CineGear, or IBC. Something WILL come this year. I know.
That C500mkiii firmware update yesterday makes it appear otherwise….
@CineChimp I didn't hear about that, but I don't think further compressed RAW options necessarily indicates that nothing new is on the horizon.
@@SuperPhunThyme100 You could be right, but typically thats not Canon’s M.O.
@CineChimp If they don't come out with something, they're done and will go the way of Panasonic in the pro cinema camera market.
Then again, they are also in a tough position because the majority of their high end cinema lenses are either PL or EF. Not many RF Cinema Lenses, so maybe they dont figure it'd be worth it to release an RF C500 or C300 of sorts.
@@SuperPhunThyme100 maybe, but is anyone going to buy a c300mkiv or c500mkiii if canon does switch to a RF mount? Not sure that would be enough for me at 15-20K. The Burano is super stiff competition as is the Komodo X, Kinefinity Mavo’s, Zcam FF 6k’s….Yesterday I did a quick test of th fujifilm xh2s and GFX100ii and was blown away by how good they are. The eye tracking is better than my R5….it was shocking
It's going to to be hard to compete with nikon now, even sony I think will take a hit from the acquisition. I think canon can come back with a great sensor with some inovative ease of use tech. and great codecs maybe just give us prores 4444 i'd prefer that than their canon Raw light
Hey Andrew, I’m with you on this brother, 4444 ProRES is just so much easier to work with than Canon’s RAW lite. Its big and taxing on your system….
SO is Nikon making new cameras soon or something. I see all the hype but it seems like cameras take years to make. If Nikon makes a cheap cinema line in sony price ranges with red sensors then ok....
I believe it's about a 24 month cycle from design concept to an actual silicon product, so when we get a camera today, its already 2 years behind where tech has moved too. So Red’s sale to Nikon, most likely wont see anything come to fruition for at least a couple of years hardware wise. But firmware and software, Nikon has 20,000 employees and I would say that a lot of them are in the software engineering department. So thats possibly where some collab may emerge in the near future, or maybe Nikon has an awesome camera waiting to be launched….the Z9 is a fantastic camera as are the REDs DSMC3 line. Crossbreed now….
I think Canon is just falling asleep. They're becoming the new Nikon, because they haven't made anything new in the cinema department for years. A C70 mark ii that's smaller, and has full frame with internal NDs would be nice. In my opinion the R5C is a letdown. If it had Clog2 and the same DR as the C70, I would give it an A+.
Oh you are on the money brother, full frame smaller c70 ….. yes please
Solid speculation, I totally agree.
Would you consider switching to NIkon if they dropped R3D raw into their mirrorless lineup?
@@EntrNmHre I would defiantly consider it yes. But would also depend of the whole echo system and general usability. I currently use 2 systems. Canon for photos and Blackmagic for video. If Nikon could merge the 2 worlds, then I could seriously consider the switch. Would R3D raw be enough to make you switch?
Yes it would. I'm like you using mainly Canon and Blackmagic cameras for commercial work, but Canon’s 8K RAW and BMD’s 12k BRAW has almost filled 250TB NAS. So yes I would absolutely switch for that reason alone.
@@EntrNmHre Yeah fair enough, thats some serious data. Im only using 4k & 6k. Lets see what child Red and Nikon give birth too. Whatever they do, im sure it will shake things up.
@@EntrNmHre Would also be interested to know how you match colour on the 2 systems? Maybe you already gave a video on that i missed
One thing I love about canon, they don't allow what other camera companies are doing to influence their release schedule. They are still pushing canon c70 commercials and the c70 Is now 4 years old. Another thing I think the C70 is a replacement for the 200 and the 100 and the line will now be canon c70, and c300. The hybrids like the R5C will become more prevalent and we will see a lot of those coming out. I wouldn't mind if they ended up doing a c70 and c300 version that has a full frame option or replaceable sensor option in the next version of each camera.
I don't think that Nikon would actually revoke the compressed raw usage due to the fact that every company knows how Nikon won the lawsuit against red. They could use their tactics against them.
With Canon I think you are exactly right Larry. This NAB will be very interesting - Im hoping for a c70 sensor in an r5C sized body or possibly something with a global shutter. That would peak my interest.