LS Turbo Comparison Borg Warner S480 sxe vs S366 sxe
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Today we compare the infamous Borg Warner S480SX-E to the much smaller S300SX-E.
Turbo Specs-
S480
Compressor- 80/113mm
Turbine - 83/74mm
T4 A/R 1.10
S366
Compressor - 66/91mm
Turbine - 80-73
T4 A/R 0.91
There were no other changes to the car between turbo swaps. The car actually made the same power but was seeing knock, so timing was reduced to a safe level leaving the result you see in the video.
Which turbo suits you best?
Thanks for watching,
Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe for more of this!
Special thanks to Josh for providing some killer data for the car community!
Cheers,
Blake.
Josh has spoken with me a bunch over a few months. That 80mm huffer was totally wrong for his application and goals! Our turbo tonner build series showed him that he could easily achieve his power goals and have WAYYY more power under the curve with a much more modest turbo.
Bigger isn't always better boys! Match your turbo kit to your application! Glad Josh has finally got the combo sorted 👌🏻 Well done showcasing it mate.
You boyz did a great job on that tunna and great job getting Josh on the right track
Nice, we had been discussing it too and I think he made the right decision. He actually made a few more numbernon the same timing too, but was seeing knock. Ended up 20hp down up top.
V8, manual, and turbo with almost no lag. Perfect street combo 😍
Yeah it was real nice to drive, just a shame I couldn't give it too much on the street 😅.
The GT will be out for roll racing this Sunday guys, stay tuned for some footage 🙂
Keen!
Liking the sleeper, the technical discussion, and the content overall. Keep it up bud.
Thanks mate, hopefully it helps a few people in optimising their setup 🙂
Man this thing is so sick
Make small turbos great again 😁 area under the curve makes all the difference in a manual car that gets driven! Can steer!
Yeah buddy! I think it was perfect for the street. Would make even more on e85 too, can't argue with a 4000rpm powerband if not more!
It is a much better car to drive now, especially as a manual.
Sweet! I’ve been looking for some testing on these turbo’s I’m thinking of bw as a good upgrade to my eBay gtx for my Ecotec
Great video, love it. Got a s480 on my 383ci 3.9 gears, t56. Had a ton of issues with back pressure. Only had 3inch dump to twin 3inch previously, changed to 4inch dump and all good. Making 488rwkw on a run in tune 98oct. Feels good. Be interested to know what a smaller turbo is like. (Previously was a 5.3 with the same turbo, imo the turbo was too big for that combo and the street)
Oh nice, the extra cubes would be really nice for the 80mm. 3inch is very small for those cubes 😅 The s366 was really nice to drive!
I reckon it’s because it a lot harder to slow down the larger impeller in the s480 than the s366, so it goes out through the blowoff valve, & once it’s been cracked, the close point for the blowoff is less than the open, so boost pressures have to go down enough to close it, hence the loss of boost when letting off throttle in the larger turbo. Just a guess
Ahh that's an interesting theory mate. Wish we had access to as many sensors as we could fit in the car to know for sure!
That’s a sweet VX. Just needs the VX Series 2 Executive hubcaps to make it official
This guy can street and peddle! I was on the track with him a few times watching him in the review mirror and infront of me 🤣
He's a beast!
Thanks man!
Yes some sick driving at the end
I think you're correct to say that the exhaust restriction applied to turning the larger rear wheel is forcing the wastegate open prematurely on the larger turbo. I have seen that weird phenomenon before once but on a 3 rotor Mazda.
It's a weird one, I would have thought the larger A/R would cause less pressure within the turbine section.. Could it be that the compressor requires much more energy to spin, causing more backpressure too?? Id love a bunch of sensors to know for sure!
When I first seen the thumbnail for this video I though you were comparing a t6 s480 to twin s366s as some people do for drag setups. I would not have thought a single 66/73 would have been too small for a ls1, but it appears to work really well for a manual street car.
Is the ls1 still alive and kicking?
The turbines are very similar between the two and the compressor ended up moving enough air for 610whp on e85 but was left there for the stock bottom end. The car did alot of drifting sessions at the track at up to 7000rpm and plenty of street use, unfortunately we just saw the bore split just recently and a rebuild is in order.
Yeah cool, just check the specs and yeah pretty much same on exhaust side.
How much boost does it run? Looked like about 10-12 ish?
The response looks great, I would be worried about having too much boost down low and having a manual you can really load it up down low and fold a rod in a sbe
@@RedsProjects You can bring it in softly with the timing but from memory it was around 13-14psi for 610whp and survived alot of abuse.
550hp@11-12ish
@GapSauceRUclips yeah it looked like the car loved the abuse from the last part of the video.
I see a lot of sbe drag cars are doing their best to keep the boost and torque in low rpm down to keep them alive at high power figures.
Have you watched any videos from squirrel tuned?
“Oh….that’s not an Ecotec” hahahah idk why but that was funny as 😂
And fuck me that thing would get down and boogie. Love how it’s just a full blown sleeper 💪🏼
Haha, it would definitely catch a lot of people off guard. The car is super clean too!
Would love to see rear end setup!
The VCM710 may have a bit too much valve overlap to be fully efficient in boosted applications due to bleed off. He’d more than likely make more power with a cam that has a larger LSA/smaller overlap. However, the chop of the VCM710 is undeniable.
It's very dependent on the pressure ratio of the turbine and the fuel used. I believe improvements could be made also.
Great content
Damm ur boy can drive 👌 cool car for a holden
DK ain't no Gaijin 😉. It's pretty awesome isn't it!
Love the factory/executive look 👍
It's a real sleeper!
Wooooo let’s go!!!
Yeah buddy!!
Hi did the rings get gapped when you put turbo on
it's awesome car mate
Nah just cam, pushrods and valve springs.
Went for a pulsar 3584. Spools great, full boost just a tad over 3-3.5k rpm on a Barra. 400kw on low boost which is a measly 15 pound. Plan to turn it up, was limited by a boost control issue.
Great power for 15psi mate. Most 98 cars with 3582 make an honest 320rwkw and run 117-121mph.
Hahahaha that hell quick pic of drift king 🤣 love this vid 👌 good work Gap and Josh 😝
Hahaha thats actually a pic of Josh... Thanks Sami 🤣
Most important technical detail was left out ... GMH couldn’t do it stock standard so how the hell does Josh keep those *hubcaps* from coming off with a *turbo LS1* 💡
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Some sort of Wizardy..
Haha! I have lost two over the years but apart from that they have been fine even with being swapped over many times. Nothing else holding them on either.
@@JoshJ285 impressive, I was sure it was going to be cable ties even though i couldnt see them. Respect the sleeper look dude, 100%.
@@thatguyben3128 Nah that would be a good idea but i would be too concerned about how shit it would look haha. Thanks man.
Zip ties 🙂
Love the sleeper 🤤👌👌
It was really nice to drive too, most people wouldn't look twice at it 😅
@@GapSauceRUclips 👌😎 and like ya videos mate gave u a subscribe 👌😎 keep a eye out on mine I’m just about to get my GTSR back with a fully built DART427 with a Kong 2650 on it running E85+meth hopping to hit a 1000+hp 🤞🤞🤞
Thanks mate, appreciate it! That sounds amazing! The GTSR's are such a cool car and they don't take alot of power to really move either.
Go-kart track @ Raliegh Raceway NSW at the end 👍
Looks fun doesn't it!
@@GapSauceRUclips great venue for supermotard also. Haven’t been there for years but hear that it’s a little run down these days
@@RedDuster yeah that looks like it would be fun! Maybe a bit sketchy for me though on two wheels 😅
In a few tests the s4080 hates the t4 housing and small turbine wheel it actually makes it lagier
Really? I wonder if they used a t6 manifold with t4 adapter or something.. from a physics standpoint, that should make sense but you never know!
I need a smaller turbo for my monaro. I went with a 1000hp turbo and totally regret it for street driving. Good result with the smaller turbo, makes the same power as mine. Im looking for a new turbo and pulsar recommended their equivalent of a g42-1450 with a 1.15. Way too large of a turbo imo.
I'm likely going to run the g42-1450 on this 5.4 but it's more for roll racing and drag application with n20 for spool if required.
You could go for an sxe s372 as a middle ground if it's a 5.7/6L?
@@GapSauceRUclips I was thinking of going with a g40-900 or g40-1150 since its primarily a street car. Stock 5.7, 98 only as I can't get e85 where I am.
@@vongdong10If i had enough time and money i would love to throw a g40 1150 on it and compare to the s366
What size turbine wheel was on the s480? If it was the standard 96x88 wheel you'd never have a back pressure issue until over 900rwhp. Did it have some small turbine wheel?
Hey mate, the full specs of the turbos in in the description of the video.
It's not that it had a backpressure issue, just that there was more backpressure as the gate needed the duty cycle adjusted (adding more pressure to the other side of the gate to keep the boost up)
The s366 actually made a couple numbers more that the s480 on the same boost which backs the theory up. I'm not 100% on it though, so I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. Is the larger compressor taking more backpressure to turn?
I guess cam and individual setup makes a big difference, I originally turbo’d my vx commodore with a t51r with a 1.15ar t4 rear housing, I put a small cam in and valve springs on an otherwise stock engine before I drove it boosted, it easily made 15psi before 3000rpm and made 702rwhp on 98 fuel, there was so much back pressure that I needed 15psi spring in the wastegate to make 7psi without a boost controller, the turbo felt way to small, I now have a gtx55, 88mm turbo with a 402 stroker ls and it’s makes its 20psi on the converter at 4000rpm like it’s nothing and feels awesome to drive.
There’s obviously more ways to make something more responsive than putting a tiny turbo on there and restricting top end power, all depends what you’re after I guess.
Auto is a completely different ball game though. The S480 was taking several seconds from a 60 roll to even make usable boost. Crossover piping size and merge design would play a huge part in the spool too. This particular setup was night and day difference. There's only so much you can feed a stock bottom end LS1 for drifting.
In this case the smaller s366 actually had less backpressure as it didn't have the larger compressor wheel to turn. Diameter is leverage and on the same timing, it actually made slightly more power on the s366.
On an optimal setup with an auto, you could definitely afford to go larger without suffering driveability.
I'm glad you're happy with yours 🙂
Also, we talked about advancing the cam a few degrees to bring it up again but it's responsive enough as it is. 🙂
Old mate knows how to work the wheel!!!
Haha, I heard he was the stunt driver for DK in Tokyo drift 🤫
Which turbo would perform best on e85? Same result?
The S366SX-E seems to be a very good match for this engine / set up. Converting KW to hp and converting boost to MAP and dividing the two gives us 314 hp at the hubs from "The theoretical NA engine". (314 hp / 350 CID = ;) )
This is about 32 lb/min airflow in the compressormap, right?
1 BAR boost doubles this to 64 lb/min. A X mark at 64 x 2.0 in the S366SXE compressormap is just within the 70% line = this turbo is not too small = S480 is overly large for THIS particular engine.
We have seen 420 hp at the hubs from "the theoretical NA engine" from budget 5.3 L engine running up to 20 psi boost on petrol fuel, not E85. :)
I like the thinking, this particular car made 385rwhp n/a. 620hp on 13psi from memory on e85 before it split a bore.
No surprise that at 550hp a s480 is the wrong turbo. Also, an S480 with a t4 and a small turbine wheel like that is just about never the right call. Why was this combo ever even chosen?
It's a surprise to alot of people who were told it's the best turbo for the application, I believe this was sold as a kit with the recommendation for the s480.
Josh decided he could do better and made the swap and he's stoked. You would be surprised how many people have told us swear that their s480 still spools like the s366 in the video. 🤷♂️
Cool comparison.
Alternatively however, you could have gone for a big money motor build to match the ol S480
Definitely could, but we thought this represented the majority of street cars here, stock bottom end on pump fuel. The car did make 300rwkw n/a as well 🙂
@@GapSauceRUclips No no I liked this very much. Like you said, majority street cars/people would just go big turbo bigger is better mentality.
Very little loses up top, big gains down low
Thanks for watching mate 🙂 I'm keen to get some more testing done! The s366 actually made a couple numbers more before timing was pulled for safety. Cool hey 🙂
I have a t4 S475 1.10 on a 5.3 full boost by 3000rpm and will make 800rwhp . The exhuast side is a little small would like to try the T6 s475 .
Nice, auto trans? E85? I'd be interested in seeing you pressure ratio.
@@GapSauceRUclips Yes 4l80e, triple disk lockup , it's a tight converter 3000-3200 stall. I switch between pump e85 usually e50-55 and pump gas with water meth. The e85 definitely helps a lot with making power . The pressure ratio is through the roof I can tell lol definitely 2:1 . I have a wide LSA LS9 factory cam minimal overlap might help with high pressure ratio.
whether the backpressure was due to similar exhausts? Did the exhaust change from the s480 to the s366?
Same exhaust mate. 🤔
I made 572/583tq on 92oct dyno jet. s366sx .91 housing. 14 psi 14 degrees timing. Small turbo runs a little hot but she lights up quick. Solid choice for a street car if you want to keep it under 600 on pump gas. Could have made more torque...all in the tune. 5.3l 862 heads, 218/220 cam. Curious what a bigger turbine housing would do or the s369. If the IAT's would come down run a little less boost for the same power the s369 sounds better. Especially if you want 600whp on pump gas.
Josh ended up running e85 on this combo and made a touch over 600hp, I believe it was 14psi. S369 would be a good upgrade if you wanted a nice 650.
@@GapSauceRUclips Just wanted to add to this. I ended up going to a 1.0 AR housing. No change in the tune. The only difference I can really tell is the turbo spools slower. I'd imagine there's less back pressure thus helping hold boost later in the rpm range. I didnt mention before this on a 5spd truck. It's kind of a give and take situation. I miss how easy it was to make it spool when just cruising around. But the point of it was to gain some top end at the drag strip. Not sure if ill stick with it or not. I'm really not sure if its better or the same. Regardless the s366 is small for a 5.3l and it chokes bad up top. I have to ramp boost up just to hold 14psi. I've never been able to hit and hold 16psi. But if you want to make under 600hp its a solid choice for the street but not the drag strip. I've never ran it with open exhaust. I run a 3.5DP to 3" that exits in front of the back tire. This could be part of the issue. Very curious how the 74mm turbine version would do. Maybe a 69/74. Best of both worlds?
@@or-ian6973 Interesting, you could add a couple of degrees advance to the cam, or go a custom one. (Happy to help there). Spend some time on the injection angle and timing as boost is ramping. Wrapping the headers will help somewhat as well for spool. You can make over 600 on an LS1 so you should be able to do a little more on the 5.3.
great test.
Thanks 🙂
hopefully you can reply just wondering what a/r size you used for the vx
Hey mate, all the turbo specs should be in the video, but I believe the turbine is .91
I had the vcm number 7 cam (NA) im my VX SS along with a lot of other stuff. 7000rpm on stock bottom end & 290rwkw.
Should have kept that car 😔 as well as my hz 308 th400 😔 and my vb 253 m21 touring car kitted 😔 and my LX Sunbird 173ci trimatic 😔 and.....
I'm sure a lot of people feel the same about some of the cars they've let go.
Nice list of cars there mate! I have a few that I will always miss, My Cammed T2 TE50 manual is at the top of that list though.
What size turbine housing did you use on the S366?
Hi mate, it may be in the video description. If not I'll find out for you 🙂
@@GapSauceRUclips shit it is there youre dead right!
@@danielbullock445 It drove really nice on the street, I was Impressed at the response.
I would be curious how the back pressure and lag would compare to the s366 if the slightly bigger s369 or s372 were used but killer results on that car congrats
I'd love to find out! Josh is about to make the swap to e85 and share his results with us in regards to backpressure and cooling etc.
@@GapSauceRUclips the older sx s366's will go farther than the new sxe.... you will see on the dyno if you try it. sxe does NOT have a "clipped" exhaust wheel. Older s366 will go 50-100 hp farther depending on displacment of engine its on.
Just need to test an S475 now
Thats Definitely something I'd love to do!
Correct, and maybe let it feed, Say to 15-17psi.
whats the radiator setup? Currently getting prepared to do the turbo conversion on my vy. Looks like an inline radiator cap retaining the factory radiator ?
Hey mate yeah just the stock radiator with an inline cap and an overflow bottle
you can be my wheelman anytime
What Cam was you running ?
Vcm 710
232/234 110 LSA
Am I reading that right? Is my math jacked up?
409kw=548hp
967nm=713ft/lbs?
Sounds about right mate.
Hi did you change the valve springs
Yes when doing the cam kit. It has dual springs.
What gearbox spec and how much boost you running ?
Stock T56 and 12-13 psi
What's the Fuel system, injectors etc?
Walbro 525 intank pump with upgraded wiring to the pump and bosch 1000's
What size exhaust mate?
3.5 inch dump into twin 3 inch into twin 2.5 inch cat back.
Maann... I just mounted and set up an s480 on my 6.0... you guys think I'll be ok?
You have a few extra cubes which will help, it would work alot nicer with e85 and an auto trans with an appropriate stall. It all depends on personal preference, everyone likes to defend their choice. There's a big difference between what "lag" is acceptable at the strip vs on the street. Josh's vx would take several seconds to hit usable boost from a 60roll in 2nd which meant he had a hard time roll racing at powercruise.
I'd your intent is to keep the s480, fab the largest dump you can fit in there, ensure the crossover pipe isn't excessively large and I'd exhaust wrap anything pre-turbo (Inc dump) this will all work towards better spool and a reasonable boost threshold.
@@GapSauceRUclips its a 6 speed , I'm too far into the build to quit now. I have 2.25 inch crossover into a 3 inch flange. We'll see what happens man!
Keep the 6speed, loads more fun!
Old version or SXE s366?
SXE
@@GapSauceRUclips dang I just ordered the sx for my 5.3
Hell yeah! Both turbos in our test were SXE. What's the 5.3 setup? Those things are really nice.
@@GapSauceRUclips just stock 5.3 with a 216/220 cam. Planned to run a s366 since I started the build. Nice to finally see someone post some good footage of one. Hard to find much info on them on a LS on YT.
Hopefully the old style sx is somewhat similar to the sxe. Not looking for much power so I’m not worried about that.
So why is everyone putting the s480 in?
In this case, it was sold with the kit. But Josh wanted a more refined setup, and I think he got it!
@@GapSauceRUclips sweet as. What cam and diff gears?
@@toneabet6252 Hey mate vcm 710 cam ans stock 3.46 diff gears
@@JoshJ285 awesome. Nice work
Stock engine?
Stock bottom end, cam. Made 300rwkw n/a
@@GapSauceRUclips do you know how much ls2 can handle with boost application and stock bottom end? I mean maximum hp without harming the engine
@@abdullahalaraimi6087 Guys have been 8s with stock bottom end LS2's. I'd consider upgrading the rod bolts if I was going to spin any rpm/power though, and stay away from the limiter
hey mate what fuel system is this vehicle running and
what fuel type
also would love to know how you guys setup the fuel system in it
At the time of this video it was running 98. Later upgraded to e85 and made a touch over 600hp. I believe he just upgraded the fuel system in it actually recently. I'll have a really nice video about building a hard line fuel system in the next month or two, surge/fuel cooler etc too.
@@GapSauceRUclips true that's pretty cool I'm interested in seeing how he kept the dead head rail on this car and if he mounted the reg under the vehicle or if he kept the dead head reg in the tank
@@rubberbandman2540Hey mate at the time of this video it was just the stock reg in the tank and a walbro 525 with upgraded wiring to it. Ended up making 610hp on e85 with that set up. It has since been upgraded to a surge and manifold referenced fuel pressure reg
@@JoshJ285 cheers bro for the reply I'm about to use a $366 turbo on my cammed ls1 so you information is very handy cheers
@@rubberbandman2540 No worries