Breaking Down Karate Master vs Aikido Master
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2023
- Jesse Enkamp the Karate Nerd recently fought against Aikido master Leo Tamaki. Here are my thoughts about their exchange.
Watch the original video here: • I Fought An Aikido Mas...
#Aikido #martialarts #mma
---
Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey RUclips channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my RUclips channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
---
If you want to support my journey, you can make a donation to my PayPal at info@rokasleo.com
SUBSCRIBE to see when the next videos will come out:
► bit.ly/1KPZpv0
Check the video "Aikido vs MMA" which started this whole Martial Arts Journey:
► • Aikido vs MMA - REAL ...
If you want to support me and this channel on a regular basis check my Patreon page:
► / rokasleo 
Спорт
You can't box a person in based on a 10 minute video, but these are my thoughts from what I saw. I hope you will find value in them and will also look critically at my perspective, as much as the original video itself, as we should never believe something just because a "master" said so :)
If you want to check out the original video, watch it here: ruclips.net/video/PtibobLK56I/видео.html
As soon as I saw Jesse’s video pop up I was counting down the time when you would respond 😂
You should either do a longer interview with Sensei Tamaki or visit him yourself. That would be awesome :D
Leo Tamaki talks a lot about how deadly he is, and he always acts all serious like his a cold killer... I think he's mostly a poser and wouldnt stand in an MMA match.
Because... You know... He's too deadly and stuff.
What would be even more amazing is if you collaborated with other people who pressure test aikido, such as this guy!
@@Jenjak What he said (in another video) in his own language (french) is that he don't train for sport, he train in what was used by samouraï, japanese spy during WWII or the japanese Gestapo, to end any any threats as quickly and efficiently as possible and survive a battlefield, so not something you want to see in a MMA figth or any sport competition (also aknowledging that, if you have to figth unarmed, something really went wrong before).
Sure, he could sound like any mac dojo con artist, and i'm pretty unable to judge, but he seem pretty legit if you look at him a little.
I think we can all agree we need to see Rokas meet this aikido master in person.
Was that even up for debate?
That would make a very interesting video.
YES, PLEASE
Yes I joyfully agree 😅😊😅
Lmao I'm imagining rokas meets him and for whatever reason they get into it but rokas uses his aikido and it's kind of like a stand down like in baki when it was doppo vs shibukawa
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Rokas! 🙏(And please don’t call me a master 🙈) See you at the Ultimate Self-Defense Championship! 💪
Lol I was scrolling through, after posting my own comment, and I was thinking "I don't see Jesse in the comments!" And here you are. 😆
Thanks for the original video Jesse! Can't wait for the second season of ultimate self defense championship - good luck!
Hey you commented 😄.
You both rock 👊
Love your Videos. Looking forward to seeing you in the Self defence championship :D
My favourite concept from the video was his discussion of open frame and closed frame. Basically his idea that the more intense you go the more you need rules when sparring in order to keep it safe. Interesting to hear him say that.
I also think he was not bagging on MMA, just pointing out how he is different, with an honest mistake in terms of attacking the knee.
Yeah he talks common sense, but mostly he's doing LARP.
Actually in the UFC there have been talks about not allowing some hits to the KNEEs due to potential long term damage from hyperextension (the bruce lee kneecap kick that is very popular nowadays).
@@Jenjak Aikido is nothing but LARP, so that fits lol
@@stryed3483 that is called a stop kick. And a lot of UFC fighters think it should be banned, but it does not make sense to me because blows to the head are way more dangerous than a blow to the knee. A blow to the knee may end your career but a blow to the head may end you life.
It is correct that when you remove some of the supposedly deadlier moves, it allows you to train with more intensity. That’s why sports combat does a far better job of teaching people how to fight then traditional methods of training. You can go back to the invention of Judo to see how this works. Kano removed the techniques from Judo/traditional jujitsu that were too dangerous to safely practice at full speed and full intensity. Then there was a big challenge match of Kano’s judoka versus the traditional guys, and the judoka won almost every match. And that was because they spent a lot of their time actually fighting/Grappling at full speed and intensity, versus the other guys that were mostly only going through the motions.
My favorite thing about Jesse's video I'd that the Aikido instructor also acknowledged that Jesse was going light.
yea he is a humble guy. i like him a lot
@@bruhmoment3731'humble' fetish alert
@@jamescarr4662right I can’t stand it 🙄
Well, he was honest, after all, it was pretty obvious to see, and people should not get the impression that it is actually that ease to catch people in mid strike to do joint manipulation to them. 99% of time, trying that will get your face smashed
The fact that he put “Real Sparring” in the title kind of invalidates everything in the video. I mean I understand why he wasn’t going harder with a guy he just met for a demo, but don’t try to pass that off as real sparring.
Aïkido sensei: Can't attack the eyes in MMA.
Jon Jones: That's inaccurate.
Shout-out to my ear-biters out there
@@KeelHeelhahaha! Tyson would be proud
you actually can attack the eyes in MMA, you just cannot do it with your fingers. But you can do it with an elbow, knee or your toes. Remember in MMA as in life if it is not forbidden it is allowed. If you invented a new addictive drug you'll be fine selling it ...until the authorities decide it is now listed in illegal substances
it clearly worked for him lol. as well as the dangerous knee kicks
All these tma masters who said no attack to these and that in MMA, they seems to forget about NHB days, where Joe Son was hit in the nuts like 50 times, and Nakai lost one of his eye due to deliberate eye pokes in vale tudo Japan 95.
For me I do respect some of his points, but I don't see a big difference between him and Lenny Sly, who also has a direct aggressive style of aikido, his throws execution also takes a similar non circular directions
There are several key things I don't think many people grasp about aikido.
First Morihei Ueshiba was a proficient swordsman before developing Aikido and all of his students were proficient combatants before learning Aikido. In short, they were all fighters.
First they all learned to fight with force against force, then years later learned techniques that used a blending of movements to overcome force. You need the first to know how to use the second.
Aikido, Tai Chi Chuan and several other martial arts do not (with few exceptions) attract fighters.
Teach Aikido to a Muay Thai national champion for 5 years and watch what he can do.
I'll admit, in my younger years, I had a closed mind when it came to aikido. But as I got older and more experienced in martial arts on my own journey, I realized that it ultimately comes down to the practitioner and their individual abilities in their chosen Art. So I'm insanely happy that you haven't abandoned your aikido roots but rather find a way to adapt and overcome. To me, Rokas, you're not just a great martial artist. You're a warrior and inspiration for the generations to come.
i think rokas should be more respectfull whit hes roots... some day he will see that making a video saying aikido does not works was a mistake... the same to other arts he has deshonor...
@@NinpoAndMusic more like me? What do you mean? I only understood probably half of what you typed.
@@fonzievarata607 atakking my spelling is not what i spected but ok... you say in your coment that in your younger years you didnt understood aikido that good and it took to you time and getting more experience to get it... did you say in those times to the world that aikido didnt worked? or did you stay and practice until you did? i think you did the right thing even if you dond wanna hurt rokas feelings... i gues if he is for real he will unerstand in time what i mean... the same whit you and my spelling.
cheers
@@NinpoAndMusic 1) Not attacking your spelling, just stating that I didn't understand what you were saying. 2) I've never trained in aikido and have no desire to train in it. My experience comes from a different path of martial arts. My primary Art at this point in time is Kali, or Filipino Martial Arts. 3) Wasn't trying to spare his feelings, I was speaking the truth.
@@fonzievarata607 what i agree the most is that all comes to the practitioner ... allso "my bad" about my translator gone crazy ...
You can totally "attack the eardrum," in MMA (with a slap, for instance)... but you can't stick your finger in their ear.
I was thinking the same thing, but was just wondering what sensei Tamaki meant by attacking the eardrum. I am guessing he meant clapping the eardrums, but I guess he could have had sticking a finger into the ear too. Although I'm not sure how effective that would be
What about ripping off an ear? Is that allowed? I wonder how Holyfield feels about the subject?
Stockton slap
@MartialArtsJourney even punching the ear drum or right behind the ear can rock people or completely knock then out.
@@CalebClark No, that would be illegal. The foul would be "clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh."
I was actually about to send you this video to have your opinion on it XD
I trained with Leo for years, roughly 3 to 5 trainings a week, so I can definitely say this video shows a very low percentage of what we actually do practice in the dojo. However: though we practice in a framework (looking for a kind of efficiency inside of it), a lot of students developped the "little samurai complex" and tried hard to be effective whatsoever, which is obviously unrealistic, especially because one of the main focus of Tamaki's trainings is "get rid of opposition", "don't give tells to your partner" etc. His aikido is way more participative, a collaboration without resistance, and in this sense it is more "aikido" than many dojos I visited during my 20-ish years of practice.
But: Leo trains 2 to 4 hours per day, going at the gym, sparring with his brother or other senseis, and those advanced techniques they only show to aspiring teachers of the school for instance. Which means, no matter how much you train your aikido, it won't be as effective as Leo's, just because he trains himself to be an athlete besides practicing his aikido way more hours per day than you average student can do!
The fun fact is my desillusion from aikido came at the same time as yours, and at the time I stumbled upon your videos! which led me to quit aikido, and even question my practice as an opera singer (I'm a professional opera singer), and to look for evidence based skills for the voice... And now I hit major theatres with bigger roles with real opera skills! So thank you for your hard work and cool videos :)
Idk if i understand your point about the singing. So you didn't learn to sing proper opera at the opera academy? 😮 in that case where did you go or what method did you use to learn singing
@@jake_with_the_BIG_snake well, opera singing and traditional martial arts have actually a lot in common: fantasies about old/foreign exotic supposedly superior techniques, few to none connection with actual physiology etc. And I actually didn't learn proper operatic vocal techniques in more than 15 years of lesson, in various institutions including a major international conservatory, and around a dozen of different singing teachers plus at least twice that number with various coaches specialised in working with singers.
I found actual info and techniques by approaching the CVT method (Complete Vocal Technique) which is an evidence based methods, and by participating in the VCH project (Vocalist Chat Hub) which gathers several expert vocalists from around the world, including Philippe Castagner, Toni Linke and Arnaud Ménard to name a few :)
I am an Aikido instructor. I always try to clear the expectation from early on. Aikido was developed from Daitojutsu, samurai fighting. Samurai are armed and armored. That means catching the hand is important to prevent access to weapons. Armored means punching and kicking are risky moves with low return (especially if the sword/knife is already out). Modern fighting is different. So if you want to learn Aikido to advance sport/competition fighting, I cannot help you. If you want to teach your annoying neighbor a painful lesion, I cannot help you. If you want to be the most physically intimidating person in your block, I cannot help you. I always ask the people want to join of their expectation.
I have heard many, many stories from police officers (some also military veterans) that I have trained with who assure me joint locks do, in fact, work. That's all I want to add. Thank you for the respectful, but honest, analysis!
There's a big cultural imperative to not resist policeman with all available options. He implied they do work with something like bouncers controlling kids.
Both the army and the police have a lot of scary authority and backup behind them. Probably the people they're using the locks on are trying to avoid detention, not kill the guy using them.
I Always had this theory that the more Aikido is pressure tested, the more it reverts back to Japanese Jujitsu.
Yes...but AIKIDO should be something different from JIU-JUTSU...should it not?
@@mlabodia Not for just the sake of being different. What works is what counts. Some Arts were developed out of theory from the parent art and just don't work in real life.
@@mlabodiaen lo que se diferencia es el hecho que el Atemi de Aikido no se usa en puntos para lastimar, mientras que en el Jujitsu es usado con fuerza letal ya que los samurai usaban pesadas armaduras y las únicas técnicas efectivas eran atacar articulaciones y golpes donde la armadura no cubría, te recomiendo mirar el Aikido Tomiki, es un verdadero Aikido que busca efectividad y es legítimo.
Aikido is a form of jujutsu
There is no canadian geometry...grappling that works just works
Love your videos as always Rokas! But I think a little more context has to be given to Sensei Tamaki's thoughts about MMA.
It's not that he mentioned them to discredit the art/ sport versus his Aikido, but rather, he was answering Jesse's question, "Why doesn't Aikido work in MMA" (seen in the full video). To which he directly addressed along the lines of, "because not all Aikido attacks can be used in MMA."
As to whether MMA fighters are good survival fighters and can easily learn "assymetric" self defense attacks, is not something he directly dismissed, but rather, just commented why his Aikido can't work in MMA.
Really excited to see how you will implement part of your aïkido which you find being usefull in your game, now that you have skills in figthing (I loved the short vid where you showned that you used - without meaning it- some aïkido 's techniques during the circle drill in the USCD, making you able to score all of the 6 points)!
Tamaki sensei trained with Suga sensei and Tamura sensei, two teachers who are famous for being very earnest in their approach to aikido. One of my own teachers also trained with them and shares very similar viewpoints.
My favorite part of the video was when he went into the difference between the western and Japanese concept of fairness. Which is I actually think the biggest issue of MMA when it comes to self defense. It's not so much about eye pokes and groin shots, it's about not having a bell sound that tells you the fight is starting. Most times when you see someone get really hurt it's because they didn't realize the fight already started, or they were in "game mode" and the other person was there to kill them.
That's also a thing you can't simulate when you say "today we'll spar with groin shots." Because the power of asymmetric tactics are the surprise. You get jumped as you're climbing into the ring, suddenly he pulls a knife, he and six buddies attack you as you're getting your gear bag out of the car. They burn down your house the night before.
Yes. I almost got badly hurt because in a real fight I slipped into 'sparring competition' mode and the other guy was in 'fuck him up as brutally as possible, preferably when he's not looking' mode.
As a long term Aikido practitioner, who has also met and very briefly trained with Leo Tamaki (he came to our dojo in Japan earlier this year) I'm glad to see some more sensible videos and discussion of the good and bad aspects of the art.
There's absolutely nothing good about Aikido. How does it feel to have trained in something your entire life that is completely useless in a real fight 😂😂
@@lazydaze3134 When you look back on your life in the future, how will you feel that all that you've achieved is adding to the huge amount of rubbish on the internet with a pointless, trolling post? Why not use your time to go out and do something constructive, like improve your own MA abilities, or use your MA to help a teenager struggling with life to feel confident about themselves.
What is more, if you do a striking or grappling MA, in the future, when your body is worn out from all the hard training, like many people I've met, you'll possibly appreciate something like Aikido, which allows you to practice something that isn't so hard on the body.
@@CurrawongAiki-Chat, yo también me volví aikidoka, a pesar de saber del boxeo y conocer la violencia real, pasando también por mi estudio de Karate para tener un cuerpo fuerte y duro, también las maniobras de Kung Fu, me sentía insatisfecho que al final todo sea brutal, por eso el Aikido y especialmente ahora que me estoy enterando del estilo Tomiki, estoy feliz de que exista el Aikido, algo más que solo superar a otros, el Aikido es un verdadero arte marcial si se practica como es debido, Saludos y buena vida
@@Currawong ya but its useless for self defense
I think it’s awesome to see Rokas give insight since he’s an aikidoka and has experience applying it in MMA and combat sports. It would be awesome to see him exchange ideas with Tamaki.
Ive been waiting for Rokas to speak to this man for years. Years ive been seeing and understanding how Aikido works via Sensei Tamaki, I have been ignored. Now that Jesse had a video with him I can only hope it will spark Rokas interest to look deeper into it, But I doubt it, he seems to be on the proving Aikido is no good line, not exploring Aikido deeper and seeing how it does work. Sensei Tamaki and his students never shy away from a sparring. On or off camera.
@@revariox189Rokas es un pésimo aikidoka, por eso nunca creo que se atreva a profundizar como el Aikido puede servir, parece que está traumado con el hecho de que no sirviera su mala forma de entrenar, yo lo practico con fuerza y puedo decir que el Aikido por si solo, es efectivo, también ayuda que tengo experiencia en Boxeo y Karate, pero también Morihei tenía experiencia en otras cosas antes del Aikijutsu
I think the aikido fighter was right to say it's focus is irimi and atemi. If you check Morihei Ueshiba Budo book you can see he mostly starts his technique with striking and coming in (irimi).
Exactly. I always tell Aikido people (amd even my fellow Judo practitioners) that striking is a core part of the art's pure version.
Yeah, you won't punch in most Aikido/Judo competitions, but that's just to train an specific part of the art. It is broader than that!
It is very hard to just take someone down with grappling only if they have even a little bit of grappling skills (let alone if they know that you will only use grappling)
And about Irimi: If you do boxing, you'll see that when you slip in or "jam" an attack (push the attacking arm onto the attacker while moving into them) you always end up in a good position for doing grappling (of any kind, not just Aikido) or even trapping.
This also might happen when you attack an opponent and they either get stuned by it or they block it by covering up and leaving themselves vulnerable for other stuff
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Sounds so much like Karate lol All Japanese arts are very similar in their purest form. So seperated and different when seeing only the tip of the iceberg.
@@revariox189 but Karate comes from Okinawa....
Anyways, Karate was actually a weapon martial art and the unarmed stuff that it taught was mostly grappling (including standing joint locks) and low kicks.
Karate didn't even have high kicks at first
@@farorin omg you actually know your stuff!
@@farorin yep! That's why i wrote that i also tell my fellow Judoka the same things i tell the Aikido practitioners.
Our styles are very similar
Thank you for making this video!
One thing I think is cool is that he was pretty aggressive for an aikido practitioner, he was even throwing kicks every so often.
I was waiting for this video.
Glad to hear it!
Same
Nice to know your perspective on the video.
I like the part where the aikido master mentioned if aikido people did mma like Machida did with karate, it made me think of you immediately 😄.
Overall this was a great video, can't wait to see Jesse in USDC season 2 😄🥊.
Maybe Leo can join too....
Wow, didn't expect you to respond this fast 😲 Maybe the next step is to do a video with Leo Tamaki himself? But it's your journey and you should make your own path towards your goal 👍
Very valuable perspective!
Thank you. Glad to hear it.
Joint locks are useful to gain an additional level of control over your opponent, but probably won't end the fight. The hard part is flowing into the joint lock. Sifu says "no one will simply put their arm behind their back for you. You are not the police."
Flowing is the key word. I have applied standing figure four locks in real time sparring, but I never TRIED to apply that lock; I just went with what my opponent gave me at the time.
I’d say the issue is that they are standing joint locks. And in standing joint locks, you only have control over the joint you are trying to lock. That’s why they are so difficult, and nearly impossible, to effectively apply to people that are actively fighting back against you. That’s also why they can work in other situation’s, however, like in Brazilian jujitsu. Because in BJJ you are not standing. You are on the ground and using your body to control their body, which then allows you to isolate the joint you’re trying to lock. That it makes it much easier to do and hence, more effective.
@@judosailor610 yeah, being upright definitely makes a difference. It's easy to counter any given technique just by taking a step.
As a hapkido practicioner, I find confusing how aikido focuses so much on wrist. In my school we have that same aikijujutsu base, but we use elbow and shoulder much more than wrist, for better controlling our opponents. I also think the closer to the torso, the better results you'll get in takedowns and submissions (even standing up). I think you could try to learn something from a good hapkido school, you know? I think it could be used to improve your aikido, since hapkido is generally more agressive and self defense oriented.
Great video as always!
finally, a fellow hapkido practitioner! Rokas really should try hapkido and see how it is used in self defence.
I think Aikido peeps *post* more about wrist locks, but in practice there are lots of techniques involving elbows, shoulders, head, hips, etc. Curriculum wise, there are a lot more throws than wrist locks in Aikido. But it is strange they seem to focus on that on social media.
exactly what i told him. Our hapkido sparring sessions looked basically like mma. Plus, the fact that Aikido was created primarily as a meditative practice by Ueshiba, NOT as an explicit fighting/combat system
Daito ryu aikijujutsu practitioner here, I would just like to say that putting things into context is important, aikido simply moved away from becoming about fighting to be honest, I know there are more aikido styles that are focused on fighting but quite honestly those are Closer to a jujutsu style than what most would consider as aikido, however, with hapkido, You don't have the same kind of philosophical development and history of Being against Competition and recreational violence of any kind So you don't suffer from this problem as much (although you do have some mcdojos)
@@michaeldonnelly8068 Agree, I think it started as a japanese combat system blending kenjutsu/jojutsu and daito ryu aikijujutsu, but once O'sensei had his spiritual awakening he softened it up quite a bit and made it more of a vehicle for spiritual development than fighting.
It adds more leg work for aikido practitioners like myself to retrofit it for defense or sparring, but once you figure it out you can go between combative practice and spiritual practice. Especially with cross training. Sparring with weapons is super fun btw, I wish more MMA bros would try it to see the adjustments they would need to make.
On using aikido in MMA, I think it's important to understand that there's a huge difference between a martial art that's overall good for MMA or self-defense and a martial art that has some things that can be used for MMA or self-defense. Training aikido alone compared to training muay thai alone will have a huge difference in results, and the fact that a muay thai person could get a few techniques from aikido that could work doesn't mean that aikido is good overall, it just means that it's not totally 100% bad, which would be very unlikely anyway.
That's why I think that it's important to understand that some martial arts are fit to be the core of your training and focus while others are fit to be a source of specific techniques and ideas.
I think your first sentence is spot on! Very well said. As someone who has done Hapkido (essentially Korean aikido), as well as law-enforcement defensive/control tactics, I can say that standing wrist and arm locks do work in the sense that they are painful and damaging. But they are really only applicable in three situation’s. Those are if you catch your opponent completely by surprise, have a significant size and strength advantage over your opponent, or your opponent is not really fighting back, and just passively resisting. Otherwise, forget it. So yes, there are some things you could take from aikido that could be applied in MMA. But as a whole, as an art, it’s going to fail. And in fact it has been shown to fail over and over again.
this was the video i was waiting for :)
Everyone in the karate nerd's comment section was waiting for Rokas' thoughts on w😅
Nice video !
Do you think one day to meet Tamaki sensei? He travels a lot, maybe he will organize a workshop near to your place and maybe you could take the opportunity to meet him?
A nice little reaction video to this. I must admit I wondered if you would do something on this since it seems to have followed (timing wise) quite closely behind your episode 2 of your own series. I enjoyed your responses to this, what you liked and didn't like and the fact that you were basing it on your own developed experience and study. Nice work!
They were both going light, which makes sense. A lot of hard sparring is just a fight with extra words. I really enjoyed looking at what might have been how the original creator of akido intended the art to look.
I did not watch the video yet, but of course Rokas reacting is an awesome idea. Giving you a like in advance, my man !
I was wondering about your opinion on this 😁 Glad that you reacted to this video. And I agree with you 👍
I've posted the same comment on Jesse's video but I think it might be welcome here too.
Léo Tamaki is a bit of an idol of mine. I'm from Judo and BJJ, and I don't necessarily agree with everything he has ever said, but I respect him immensely and I think he has a lucid view of what fighting is - hence why his Aïkido involves front kicks, arm drags and headlocks. He also stresses the importance of strength and conditioning and being in fighting shape in general.
Léo is neither the usual Aïkido "master" who passes off dancing as fighting nor a man with an identity crisis who will essentially do MMA and call it "effective Aïkido" or something. He has very definitely chosen his art and he's aware of what it is and isn't, and more importantly he gives himself every chance of interacting with people from combat sports backgrounds and also exemplifying purposeful athleticism and a productive life hygiene.
He does seem to have fallen victim to the idea that he could sneak eye pokes and groin strikes past a lifelong skillful grappler, only to be thwarted by those annoying MMA rules. I've several times invited people in sparring to try to touch my eyes. The thing with grappling is that positional advantage is fundamentally advantageous -- there are no eye pokes against someone who knows how to establish and maintain control.
So glad you shared your thoughts. Would be awesome if you were to collab with him for extra discussion. Also have you seen the aikido practitioner sensei seth trained with?
I appreciate your critique. It was fair and open minded while still being grounded in reality. 👍🏽😎
Great video!
Very well done.👍🏻
I think what some people fail to realize when it comes to having an advantage over professional fighters due to "not being restrained by rules" is this: Can YOU pull it off? Are you WILLING to pull it off? Are you capable of setting up your position to pull it off?
Under duress, and a general rule of thumb, people don't suddenly rise to expection, they fall back to their training. A lot of the people who make those frivilous claims most likely aren't trained, experienced or hardened.
There is a different point - ability to quickly cause serious harm is a weapon in the hands of unarmed opponent. Being skilled in attacking vital areas like eyes or neck can improve your situation in a similar way as a weapon does. Today, everyone is taught that knife is an ultimate weapon no matter who holds it in the hand, right? This is a bit similar. Some ability, that makes your situation in a fight easier. And it is the ability, that may solve situation differently then every MMA fighter would.
I realised this while watching ultimate self defense championship, the episode with knife attacker in a small room. Sensei Seth managed to do perfect sidekick and then smash his enemy with full force against the wall, yet he ended stabbed as everybody else. It seemed quite unrealistic to me. Knife attacker survived all this without much harm and pain ONLY because of all the padding he had on him. I highly doubt he would be so keen on stabbing Seth's back after being smashed against the brick wall by 100kg sumo expert.
That's why in some closed-door continental China and Vietnamese wingchun schools they encourage their practitioners to seek fights on the streets. It sometimes backfires of course, the guy from one such family I briefly trained under had been in a jail for quite some bit
I’ve witnessed you advancing in your pugilistic skills and am impressed with your progress. You’ve been able to tame your ego have taken an intellectual journey towards practical and useful solutions in combative arts. I salute you 🫡
This is an amazing video 👍🏻
I practice Aikido my self and I learnt a lot from this. I’m currently on the 4th kyu
Misunderstandings aside. I don’t believe he was bashing MMA. Only stating that all martial arts are “ritualistic” or “closed”, and because of that it comes down to muscle memory: how you train is how you fight. BUT, that doesn’t mean you can’t change your style to being “open” / “asymmetrical”. Any way, fun response. Thanks for sharing. :-)
I commented on his video about you reviewing this video. I called it 😁😁😁
A great video would be Rokas fighting Sensei Tamaki. Make it happen Rokas!!
Now this is a true landmark video. On one hand you are reviewing an Aikido practitioner who followed the same guiding principles. On the other hand, you know the Uke very well and have trained/sparred with him so you can very confidently make this assessment. And to top it all off, you collaborate with Ramsey Dewey who had a bit of a complication during the tournament (which you designed, hosted and participated - quite effectively I may add - in), just showing a maturity and solidarity that I wish I saw more often (I don't care for the haters, I think season 1 was amazing because EVERYONE was amazing, and that certainly includes Ramsey).
Really, there is just so much to this video, so kudos for every last one of the accomplishments on display here and ... yeah, pumped for Season 2, but also for other videos.
The point about joint locks is that they dont actually stop someone trying to kill you.
Great video.
Great vid
Thanks!
Good video! My biggest gripe is this idea that people who have no experience kicking a resisting opponent thinking they will magically land a groin kick in a life threatening situation.
Their argument that "training for sport does not prepare you for self defense" (i.e. "you fight like you train") goes *BOTH WAYS*. Doing cooperative drills does not prepare you for the mental and physical overwhelm in a survival situation.
Also, we know from experience that attacks to the eyes, groin and small joints during sparring don't register as effectively thanks to adrenaline. I have broken fingers, toes and ankles wrestling, and not realized it until hours later. I have been eye poked and groin kicked in sparring and in unprovoked attacks (funny story) but the response is unreliable - it's not always a dramatic loss of motor function.
Furthermore, self defense PPE exists. Training with reduced power exists. Many special operations and armed forces personnel use these methods, usually both.
Instead, some "self defense" schools always seem to argue "we can't train at 100% intensity, so we'll do some cooperative exercises instead". (Nothing against cooperative drills - they're not enough on their own)
Great points. I would even argue if you even land a kick to a "sensitive spot" the attacker typically works through it. It's no guarantee. And no offense to sensei Tamaki, but to those of use who have practiced kicks over and over, his kicks are not great.
Anyone who's done a grappling art for awhile (Judo, BJJ, whatever) will certainly have taken a few shots to the groin. If you're one of those, think back -- how many of those would have ended your fight, and how many would just make you angry? I know for myself, every time it's happened, I stop in the moment because we're sparring. But I also know that if it was a real fight, it would definitely not stop me.
A fight-ending groin strike will have to be delivered with such exquisite precision and force, I don't think it's realistic to plan for it. If you can do *that*, then you probably have enough skill and physical advantage to win a whole lot of other ways.
One final anecdote: once while serving as a token "bad guy" for a self defense seminar, one of the lady students didn't hear the instructions. Instead of pulling her knee kick to my groin, she threw it with all she had. It was a pristine on-target delivery. As described above, I checked myself -- could I continue fighting if I had to? Heck yeah! And it would flip every rage switch in my body, too. You have to burst a testicle to accomplish anything.
Nice! I was looking forward to see your opinion about the video when I saw it.
Love that you did not approach this in bad faith. And your editing was nice though i wish it wad longer and had you talk about what he said with O-Sensei.
But ONE nitpick! I took his comments about MMA to indicate engagement within a singularly sport environment and not about MMA application to self defense. This contextualized his comments about MMA and striking to the knee. Immediately it was clear to me that he was talking about outright crushing the knee or isolating the patella to crush it in one go, similarly to what you might see in Silat where they will wrap the leg and fall on the knee intently at a transverse angle to rip the tendon attaching the femur and patella.
Was waiting for you yt responding to Jesse video
You are literally the first person I thought of when Jesse posted this the other day
Me, Like many others, were waiting for a response from you on Jesse's video. However, I have this funny feeling Jesse would take issue with you identifying him as a karate "master". Knowledgeable and always searching for more within and outside of karate absolutely. Maybe in another 20 years of continuous training and study.
First thing i thought when i saw the Jessie vid was i wonder what you thought
I've been waiting for this.
Thank you Sir.
Now i wanna see this aikido master fights that aikido master
Man its the most incredible thing to see someone who was fed illusions by his former aikido experience to then meet real precise violence of action in a match and realise his mistakes. And not only that, but actually train MMA and become an actual dangerous fighter. I couldnt give you more praise. It takes a healthy mind to see the truth and remain critical to your surroundings. It doesnt mean the time training Aikido was wasted, its just realising what works and what doesnt. Youre an important role model for so many delusional men who have main character syndrome and fantasize about looking cool in a street fight. Sadly thats 90% of Jesse´s viewer base in that video as you can see from all the comments.
When, I saw the video. I was wondering if you were going to do a reaction to it.
It's very interesting to watch
I attend 3 sensei Tamaki 's aikido stages, and i really saw the approach i alwayse wanted tò see in aikido.
Finally something interesting to learn, different from usually aikido meeting.
I think he Is doing a great job.
Do you have any videos on Daito-Ryu or Aikido Jiujitsu?
This is pry my favorite youtube channel
Glad to hear it
❤thanks for posting!! Please interview this AiKiDo sensi
Rokas are you going to also participate in Self Defence Championship s02 ?
can wait for you guys all to meet, and also Ranton
Unfortunately I won't be a contender in season 2 since I will completely focus on directing and hosting the event instead, to make it as good as possible. I will obviously though be around with everyone and may attack them here and there :)
@@MartialArtsJourneyoh, i understand that,
anyway, i really curious about Ranton since he's mostly a gamer, but his movement is very sharp (from what i see in his kungfu to karate video)
also, i have a bit of cheeky request , can you ask Jesse how he can keep a straight face when meeting the legendary Steven Seagal , lol😂
wish you the best ,man..
so1 is very good, i especially really like the zombie survival, icy mike make me laugh so much
they deserve millions of views
Well I know that a lot of martial arts use joint and wrist lock. Including catch wrestling. Heck I remembered William regal( who was trained by Marty Jones ( trained by Billy Robinson) used a lot of wrist lock in his pro wrestling. Plus Regal used to be a carnival wrestler( where they took on audience for cash prize). Wrist lock and joint locks are legal in MMA. So are neck cranks and spine lock ( Hallmark of catch wrestling).
Yeah, in carnival wrestling a good wrist lock was often kept in reserve in case the volunteer from the audience started getting the upper hand
What he means by that, and is not really conveyed in the video (he explained it in another video) is that if a fight is to the death, or is someone doesnt feel pain due to drugs, a joint lock is not as effective because it doesnt stop the fight
I think what he is getting at: Joint manipulation from standing is really dangerous, since A) the person is smaller and weaker, or has a lot less training than you, in which case you break their arm unnecessarily, since you could have used other methods B) is stronger and bigger as well as/or trained individual, in which case they know to defend them and you expose yourself to counters.
Like all joint manipulation, it’s safer and better when you have gotten the opponent to ground and isolated a limb, as they do in BJJ (and in catch for that matter AFAIK). Still, a choke is better.
Good thoughts
You're all the best at what you do. Keep up the good work.
My friend was an Aikido instructor and his favorite survival move was the tuei technique. Usually with a 38 or 45 revolving method.
Asymmetric warfare. Never bring MMA to a tuei fight. I can dig it.
Great video! Thank you! Other videos I have seen of yours confused me. If you want to be an mma fighter, train mma. I would be interested to see a person with your experience in Aikido try to draw a practical application of the concepts of aikido, which is what attracted me to your channel. Who knows, you could do for aikido what Hélio Gracie did for BJJ. Good luck and enjoy the journey! P@
I agree with you 100% Rokas. As the Self Defense Championships has shown in a data point, even though Jeff Chan is purely an MMA fighter and not a self defense practitioner, he actually ended up winning the championships. He did this despite a big disadvantage in terms of size and weight. For example, even though Icy Mike, who has a ton of experience, Mike's physical size, at least height wise, didn't do so well.
The only reason, imo, that Jeff Chan did so well was his superior level of physical fitness (the participants were going one after another and you could see how exhausted they were getting, especially against multiple opponents), and his great sparring and MMA experience. I mean, check out how effective Jeff Chan was at taking down his opponents, despite his height and weight disadvantage.
Also, great honest analysis, Rokas. You had both good and bad things to say, which I think is important when you're trying to be honest. Keep it up, Rokas! And yes, I was definitely hoping you'd have a response/reaction video to that one. Also super excited to see Jesse in the 2nd Self Defense Championships. The gofundme or whatever was already at the top but I donated anyways because, one, I think the participants are interesting, and two I want to support endeavors like this. I can only hope videos like these will help aikidokas and other practitioners to pressure test their arts. I know they can have important contributions to the fighting arts if only they properly tested against a variety of styles.
Rokas, could you please provide the name of the master who taught you Aikido?
Jesse Enkamp should try making a video with the awesome Riyuji Shirakawa sihan. 😎
I like yer videos too Rokas.
Excellent job 👍😎
Greetings from Belgium,
Thomas
Thanks for the reaction! Glad to see you watch L. Tamaki's work :)
During the sparring sequence, I wonder what you mean by "that didn't look like aikido"? What does aikido is supposed to look like? Aikido looks "round and stuff" during a "classic" (or rather a "too much seen") aikido course/demo. But I think it's mainly the effect of the context, not the system itself, which is about distances, timing, balance, atemi, etc. (like any other fighting system). Not aikido's fault if strikes, sparring, "realistic" conditions are nearly never taught/done in today's aikido courses ;) Next comes the frontier between a "Do" and a "Jitsu", but I think it's unrealistic to hope for the first by ignoring the second.
And I agree with you, J. Enkamp was too gentle in this sparring ;)
Hey Rokas, I really appreciate your honest opinion about the different styles of martial arts in a respectful way. I also like that you don't banned aikido completely but try to make it functional. I'm a Wing Chun practitioner from Germany and recently found Oliver Oberst who founded the WSA (WingTsun Sport Association) in order to transfer Wing Chun into a combat sport. Maybe interesting for you too.
Sunny greetings! 🙂
Look into Mehdi Ben Hassen, Kung Fu Wing Chun specialist and defendor, heavily into MMA in a proper sense (Sambo complements his Kung Fu) and Oh lord does he like to fight, if he is in a video, there will be sparring. One of the few I can name that actually shines with Kung Fu via MMA scene. And he likes to confirm it and explain which concept of wing chun he uses or prefer and whatsoever.
Hence why I never got why some still claim Kung Fu doesn't work in a fight... Even Leo (and Rokas one day) is there to prove and show how Aikido can be effective in combat situations. It is not the art but the method of training. And yes what Sensei Tamaki said about the crowd it attracts will have a serious impact on how an art is percieved and the ways people in it train (can train as no business wants no customers or non returning ones).
Cant say much about the MMA part, but I loved the guy the second he said he doesnt do joint locks. In all the years of Aikido, the one thing that never worked in "free fights" was the joint locks. The movement of Aikido is the extraordinary part in my opinion.
I think this discussion is strictly in the context of Aikido's standing joint locks. A joint lock absolutely works, and on some of the best grapplers in the world. But they also come with a key prerequisite: positional control. Most Aikido joint locks assume some sort of dynamic control, using the circular movement, momentum, and grip to lock the joint at a moment in time where it's "caught". Get any of that wrong, and it doesn't work. OTOH, isolate and control the two joints around the target joint in a static hold, and there's no question the lock works.
Well it all good focusing on one opponent. For basic mma, there are something to be said in being to step off or miss direct multiple people
What do you think about hanshi Cognard? Did you meet him? How would you evaluate his approach of aikido?
Appreciate your take on this. And I’m glad you made one, because I immediately thought of you when I saw this other video. But I have to say, I was shocked by the responses I saw in the comments of the original video. People seemed super impressed by this guy. They seem to really think he was doing something new and better.
But I have to be honest, I was not impressed at all. And in fact, I did not hear or see one thing from this guy that I have not seen or heard 100 times from other traditional martial artists trying to defend their art. I mean, going all the way back to the days of the Gracie challenge, and the early days of MMA, you would hear guys making the same old excuses about why their stuff wouldn’t work in the cage, but is much better in so-called real fights on the street. And it’s all nonsense! Or at least, like 90% nonsense. Lol. And if he’s not going to do joint locks, and just try to use off, balancing, grips, and pushing and pulling to control his opponent, then just do Judo! Because Judo you don’t have to “try to make work“ because it already works!
Oh man, was waiting for this since Jesse's video came out. Thank you for the insight!
Never trained Aikido but for a little while I trained a conceptually similar style to supplement my striking. Hapkido. my answer to "Why can't you pressure test it". I never thought of the techniques I was learning as being for fighting. I saw it as learning how the body moves and how it shouldn't move because if it moves that way, it hurts or breaks. And the scenarios I thought of where it could be useful were not AFTER the fight had already started, they were to prevent the fight from starting or to just get out of a bad spot. This is why I always thought it was great that I understood the concepts but I don't feel that it is enough on its own.
I think MMA is a great combat analogue because it's a very high pressure, high impact, violent contest... sure there are limiting rules, but it gets you real close (about as close you can get, really) in terms of psychological stress, physical stress, pain, aggression and the general inherent chaos of a violent encounter. Even if one doesn't consider their system to be MMA, MMA should always be the gold standard to pressure test your system against.
Violent encounters doesen't have any rules, nor the attacker is using gloves.
@@marcellolaginhas7370 yes we know. an analogue is something close, not exact.
@@seranonable I know the meaning of the word. The question here isn’t semantics. You’re trying to compare a fight sport with a real threat. And are two absolutely different animals. Your cortex will tell you the difference. Knowing that you are on a ring will never get anyway near of a life threatening event. And some centuries ago, that was the whole purpose of martial arts. Defend oneself against real life threats. MMA is just a sport, cannot be compare with real life.
@@marcellolaginhas7370 I said it's as close as you can get for the purposes of pressure testing. I'm not sure what your argument even is. You seem like you're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.
Is there an organization of Aikido instructors who practice this combative form? Rokas mentioned there was one for the non-combative side. If there isn’t what do you need to look for to find a schools that does the combative side?
To put it simply, Leo Tamaki is saying that Aikido is based on entering and striking in a way that causes injury. If you're hoping to see something that looks more like "Aikido" then you'll be disappointed because Aikido tends to be made round and circular for aesthetic and philosophical reasons by people who aren't interested in fighting. Traditional martial arts in general are about entering and striking. As for joint locks, could you enter and strike a joint to cause injury to a joint? Yes. Should you try to grab someones wrist or arm and then power them into submission? Probably not, when theres a more direct solution (entering and striking). As for illegal techniques, Mr. Tamaki is essentially saying that some techniques cause injury more easily than others and that those are the techniques you should use to survive a life threatening encounter. It doesn't mean you cant or shouldn't spar/play combat games for attribute building, but you should understand that you'll be depending on different techniques.
@MartialArtsJourney I'm curious about your opinion of the technique Leo Tamaki used to block, brush or catch Jesse's roundhouse kick. If my Muay Thai coach sees me doing that, I will get immediately corrected for not trying to catch a kick that way, because in a competitive fight i could get my arms broken. At the same time I have heard that throwing high kicks in a street fight should be avoided, because one could lose their balance. What do you think about Leo's technique?
I think that “aikido for mma” could be like any other individual art applied to the context of MMA in the sense that it is done with a specific purpose and a particular situation in mind.
For example, doing “muay thai for mma”, you won’t work on chokes or double legs because you’re focused on using what works best from muay thai in an MMA fight.
So in aikido’s case, you could see an emphasis on learning footwork and evasiveness but with the goal of incorporating certain takedowns that come from aikido. Very much like how wrestlers work on reactive takedowns, but more of an emphasis on movement and using opponent’s force against them. That way, it still keeps the aikido philosophy, but allows for more effective grappling techniques.
Muay thai is already for MMA... it has been adapted as a sport long before MMA was a thing. Muay Boran would be the true art, adapted into Muay Thai which is perfect for MMA
I think joint locks only work if you do it lighting fast (thereby breaking the joint or bone) or you do it with pinned controls like in BJJ/judo
Somebody told Rokas!
Hey Rokas, any chance of you contacting this guy for a collab? A more in-depth discussion with someone from your background would reveal a lot more (possibly for both of you). Some more realistic sparring might be useful to see this guy's ideas in action. I'd love to see him sparring with a bit more intensity than Jesse was willing to provide.
I normally don't rate Aikido at all. I spent two years practicing it myself, but came from a boxing background and felt the whole time like I was waiting to do some real randori. When I realised it was never coming, I quit and went back to boxing. But I think this guy actually shows some promising ideas. He seems to be willing to accept the stuff that works, even if he hasn't fully rejected the stuff that doesn't. I think you could both get a lot out of a meeting/training/sparring session.
I can't help feel that Aikido has some merit though, and the only reason that it never developed was because of the lack of pressure testing and sparring. I think if Aikido had accepted that this is necessary, it would have developed into something similar to Japanese Jiujitsu or Jujutsu Kai (another martial art that I spent some time training, which also has some merits but is similarly stuck in it's traditional roots).
Commentary and thoughts are always provoking and needed. However there's really only one way to find out now isn't there.
I'll say this again and again, there is a reason why mankind never fought wars barehanded...
No one in any traditional martial art has more experience with eye pokes than an mma fighters
The avoiding jointlocks thing is generally a good one for self defense. If you're going to finish someone by submission it's gotta be a strangle. Most people don't even know you're about to break their arm when you're about to break their arm.
Adrenaline might even make them not feel it. Many times you have to give up a superior position in order to finish a lock (think armbar from mount).
I don't know man, my self-defense experience tells me that joint locks are extremely useful. Also, it is a common misunderstanding that joint locks work because of pain or fear of having the arm broken or whatever, they're just a convenient way to break balance that -- if you're lucky -- directly leads to control. Once the joint lock did its work and you are controlling the person, it can be useful to apply pain for psychological advantage. "so you really wanna go on like this? (compresses gooseneck)"
heh I watched that video yesterday , then posted on it saying that Rokas should see this.
Thats why we pratice at our dojo Karate-do, Aikido, jujutsu, Iaido/Kendo, and Tatical confrontational situation. We all know tha we are forever training. Thers no good ,or bad in how we seem to feel about our way of fighting. Just do it!
I actually waited your reaction.
How about having a sparring again with Jesse? Aikido vs Karate 2.0
I think Takami makes good points, I have seen him in other videos and he can deliver under pressure and one can tell even is he is going light. There is also a video of him grappling with retired MMA fighter and karateka Greg Bouchelaghem better known as Greg MMA in the Karate Bushido Officiel Channel. The same video on RUclips also has an interesting interview as well.
I think about the boxing guard could be too much but what about just the hands up, at least you aren't defenseless against surprise attacks.