Old School Karate vs Modern Karate
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
- I invited @KARATEbyJesse to compare old school karate tournaments to new school karate competition and also to take a look at old school karate training methods and how they changed over the years.
00:00 Is Karate becoming less effective?
00:32 Comparing old-school and modern Karate
01:12 Old-school techniques were badass?
01:47 How Savate transformed Karate
02:43 The flaws of old-school Karate
03:37 Why modern Karate makes sense
04:26 Takedowns are forbidden in modern Karate?
04:57 2020 Olympic disqualification for a knock-out kick
06:10 Pros and cons of modern and old-school Karate
06:51 Super heavy Karate shoes for training
08:05 Hardcore exercise for abs?
08:15 Punching and kicking trees
08:55 Should Karate people train cardio?
09:25 Where does breaking bricks come from?
09:44 Nukite - fingers that can break things
10:09 How Karate competed with Boxing
11:23 Punching using weights - bad idea?
11:49 A major flaw in Karate
12:09 Full on Karate sparring and Makiwara
12:42 Punching students as they do kata?
13:03 Going all out in kata
13:41 Bunkai - practical Karate for self defense
14:15 Takedowns in Karate were lost?
15:19 Knees in karate and Karate for students?
15:48 Throwing knives in Karate?!
16:12 Impressive Karate move
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey RUclips channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my RUclips channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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#karate #martialarts #karatenerd 
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Kudos to wii_music_intensifies for the initial inspiration to make this video!
I’m really glad you’re showing and learning with Jesse because you see how karate really works
My instructor at white tiger in New York actually used to be able to break with her fingers and her thumb. I was on the demonstration team she had where we would go to events and perform forms, choreographed fight sequences, board breaking, and weapons performances. Idk if there are any videos on RUclips of it, but I know she still teaches and owns the same studio and is still able to perform breaks with her thumb and breaks with her fingers.
yessir hanz video got noticed
Old school karate is better than sports karate 🥋 japanese karate is better than European Sports karate 🥋
@@eirvingdiaz7185 and Okinawan Karate is better than Japanese and European karate 😌
Get a knockout, then get disqualified. This is the sorta reason why I do not like karate point fighting (love karate, been doing it since I was 6). Its sad to see karate becoming more sport then martial art. Great video as always.
Have you seen karate combat? Might be more your speed
@@johnpjones1775 I have, and I do really enjoy karate combat.
There's also Kyokushin rules and the Renbukai who is point but with full contact
Knockouts are dangerous and can cause permanent or long-term injury. Either we DQ the KO in Olympic competition or we don’t allow karate in the Olympics.
wasnt devopled? are u kidding me..these guys went to Nam in War and used real karate. man gtfoh
Nothing like awarding the win to an unconscious opponent to introduce karate to the Olympics.
😄
good one
They must be mad to show karate as peaceful while being a martial art
that happened? wauw..
I take my black belt a year ago. But i admit karate training is good for learning technics, it's noy enough to work strength, stamina and stuff. So now I'm doing tabata and crossfit training. It help a lot.
I appreciate Jesse a lot because he has "Everything under check" he knows the history, he knows the Katas, its evolution, its roots, he tests himself in different training environments and sparring matches, he looks at the future with one eye and at the past with the other. This video shows it pretty well.
We're still waiting for a Rokas x HEMA video! Federico's a good channel to collab with for the medieval Italian stuff.
@@justanothercomment4701 I'm pretty sure he tried sabre fencing at some point.
Sadly, like most karate black belts, an MMA fighter or kickboxing with a few months of training will defeat him in a sparring match or a fight.
@@Nomar04x how would you know do you have experienced and Jesse is someone you don’t wanna mess with he also know Maui Thai I’m pretty sure
@Craig G because all of them are supposed to be combat systems????
Thanks for the chat Rokas I had so much fun! 🤗🥋🙏
It was a blast! Thank you for all your knowledge! 🙏
Subscribed
Jesse, when can we see Rokas and you discussing your session with Steven Segall?
I love learning from Jesse and Rokas, they have great expertise in their own respective style. Thanks for this
Love all the cross over stuff with you guys and as well people like Sensei Seth, Icy Mike, wonder Boy. Great content.
I used to fight in Karate tournaments in the early 90's when things started to change, it was insurance that caused a lot of the changes started. It went from an actual fight to a fencing like tag game and only got worse. But those early tournaments man were those fun!
I had the same experience but it was Tae Kwon Do. It was much better back then.
I went through something similar in the early 2000s. When the tournaments started changing from shobu ippon to the Olympic wkf style rules
Agreed! And I don't totally agree with Jesse that the modern karateka are better. I saw some great technique in the old videos, it just highlights how messy actual conflict is. Modern Olympic "kumite" is far safer because of the ridiculous rules and they "fight" at a safe distance. Karate combat with Bas and GSP is a step back to the old school tournaments, when your goal is to stop your opponent, which does not look as pretty.
@@justintronerud1259 I used to go to "shuddering blows" tournaments, where if the other guy did not react to a blow it did not count. Totally agree with you the game of tag is nothing like a real fight.
@@XDWX TKD was scary and cool
Old school Okinawan karate focused a lot on self-defense and “one step back for defense and three step forwards for counter/offensive”, whereas modern karate is more focused on forms and distance, along with point.
The Olympic style is too controversial because of the many rules that holds back the true view of karate, which also gives the masses a wrong view.
Did a lot of conditioning in the old days
Olympics officially ruined a lot of traditional martial arts, just look at how they watered down Judo and Taekwondo.... Taekwondo used to have punches but now it has officially become foot fencing....they should never have included any martial arts in the Olympics at all
@Steve M Greco roman wrestling is an A to S rank fighting style. Easily.
I do Okinawa karate and Japanese jiujitsu Shinto jutsu boxing and judo and I love old karate because it’s better and cool and not a wide fighting stance
yo veo mucho miedo en los competidores en que sean tocados brincan mucho como los de taekwondo pasan mucho tiempo sin lanzar golpes solo con fintas y es aburrido nada comparado con los combates de la old school que no se la pasan brincando
I taught Judo at Houston School of Martial Arts in the mid 70s, and in return, my payment was learning Karate (since I was in the AAU I could not accept money). it was old school and there was no SafeT gloves or footwear. Tournaments were rough and bloody, and I loved them. I recognize some of the people in these old films, like Gogen Yamaguchi (The Cat) ...the long haired Japanese teacher. Judo and Karate and Kempo were my life, and I finally retired in 2008 with a style that combined the two which have served me well. it was good to see the good old days again. thanks for the video.
I went to Yamaguchi dojo in 84... among others and that old video is the way we trained. At the end of my 'career' I was doing that skip dance stuff getting ready for the olympics could hardly tell one style from the next... oh well... I was able to see the old school before everyone started dying. Otsuka had just passed I met his son. Watched lots of video- old man Otsuka was a tough dude in his younger days (wado-ryu).. awesome stories
Bill Briscoe is my Uncle. If you didn't bleed you were not putting in the effort.
Más Oyama (founder of Kyokushin) criticized Gogen and he said he was just a dancer.
@@Charlitos1988 I would never argue with Sensei Oyama! LOL
@@Charlitos1988 I have/had a dear friend, Dan Ivan, that practiced with Yamaguchi's guys in the late 40's though the 50's he tells a different story. Dan actually took me to Japan to meet Gogen. This was in the early 80's to see the Yamaguchi dojo then ( in the 80's) compared to what I knew it to be post nuclear bomb days..was sad. Commercialism had taken over. Yamaguchi was no dancer... but you believe what you want. Have you met either of them ..I have...
I loved it. Back in the day I practiced Goju-Ryu and a friend of mine practiced Uechi-Ryu. We never enjoyed tournaments and when somebody asked us why the answer was always the same "90% of what we've learnt is not allowed and the remaining 10% is made of techniques other styles do better"
I practiced very traditional shotokan karate, and signed up to a tournament once behind my sensei's back. I got disqualified in the first round because (even though i read the rules to the best of my ability) I back fisted my opponent in the chin and that wasnt allowed.
I'm Also From GOJU RYU
this was the reason i moved to boxing lool
LOL, one of my old teachers used to say, “Pay attention to what is illegal in tournaments. Those are the effective techniques!”
I LOVE your comment about tournaments!
The student bridge still happens in Kyokushin dojos. I still remember the first training session I participated, I lay down in the line then my teacher suggested I cover what was most important to me, being a comic creator and having no clue what was going on I covered my eyes.
My teacher took a few moments to recover from that laughter.
7:40 As someone who's just getting into club swinging as a way of shoulder rehab it's pretty cool to see that it was used in old school karate as well.
Dzięki za dobry patent
@@ebrelus7687 Jak coś nie polecam drewnianych indian clubów od Girya - mają nieergonomiczny kształt uchwytu (za wąski na dole) i za dużą głowicę. Lepiej po prostu zamówić Pahlavandle od Heroic Sports.
Szef
This video touches me deeply within my soul, for I have experienced how watered down karate has become and how all these restrictions have ruined it beyond recognition. . .
Its not good is it
@@tonynomikos3702 It strands as a pale shadow of its former self :(
I trained and fought in those old days. It was serious, intense, and dangerous. We wore no protective equipment other than a cup, fought bare knuckle, and believe it or not, in some tournaments, groin was a legal target! I've got trophies and damage but wouldn't trade those memories for anything. Still train and teach.
I started Karate in the early 70s and was doing Kung Fu in the early 80s. A lot of this old school training, especially the conditioning, is familiar to me. And kumite in 1972 was brutal!
And much better than todays shit. Tge problem with karateis tge mcdojos that have plagued america and filtering to other western countries
Started about 12 years after that and some old guard warriors from those days broke me in. I owe so much to them. It was a different world back then, we need to preserve this part of it and passing it along to the youngsters.
Bunkai was my favorite part of Karate, taking what you learnt, thinking about it's application and trying it out in a controlled manner.
We had to have a Bunkai for each Kata as part of our gradings.
My karate experience isn't a lot (I'm only a yellow belt), but my military experience gave me a different message about the space/distance control difference between the old and modern tournaments. In the old ones, the participants were trying to control the space/distance actively through aggression, trying to disrupt their opponent's processes to make openings to exploit. The modern tournaments are more passive and observational, waiting for their opponents to leave an opening rather than trying to create one, then trying to move in for the exploit. It actually explains a lot between the sparring I did in the 90's vs getting back into karate in the last few years.
This guy is 100% on point with everything he has said I'm a former three-time world karate champion and an 8th degree black belt and he knows his history trust me he really knows his history
Do you remember Horace Harvey?
The guy that made this comment is real, I am 5x olympic gold medalist (Even when I got knocked tfo I won a gold medal) and have been training all styles for the last 300 years and I am 69th degree blackbelt
I disagree about the differences that Jesse states.
In the 60s and 70s it was semi-contact, with few excessive contact penalties called, and apparently solid contact required to score a point. This was effectively full contact as a result.
Now excessive contact penalties get thrown around like beads during marti gras and the slightest touch scores a point.
When any touch to the head or chest is a point you must become much more reserved in your style.
60's 70's guys would eat modern point fighters alive.
Also 90's jka tournaments were hardcore , it's paddy cake now
@@saiyanninjawarriorz in South Africa our JKA tournaments are still pretty brutal, was watching a few fights at local tournaments recently, they hit hard, not this tippy tappy stuff they do in a lot of other countries and international tournaments nowadays
if any touch is a point it's just make me do a flurry of attacks every time, edge closer, closer then bam then back off as quick as the attack happened
as the other guy is scrambling to defend point, make the rules so lame and you get lame fighting, seriously if you know the expectation for both sides is to be cautious then it pays to be aggressive.....it's one of the reasons I never liked tournament martial arts, the rules are mostly ridiculous lol
You're wrong about the fact that a slight touch to the BODY gives you a point. Not for ADULTS at least. It's only true for kids. But for Adults, if the touch is considered "ineffective" by the judges they will not raise the flag to give you a point. And there is no excessive contact penalty to the body.
-> so it really isn't that much different from the 80's, really.
Only that the gloves changed,
And the level got significantly higher, which is why the highest level competitors move a lot differently, with micro-movements in search of distance most of the time, before actually blitzing.
The old way looks like a lot of fun!
Something neat I noticed in the old school footage was that much of the time the body is thrown into the punch (see forward lean while punching). Mind you I was a teenager when I last did shotokan, but I was taught to keep a perfectly upright body when punching.
The Japanese don’t like leaning because it doesn’t look ”neat”. Sometimes you only find out about it when you get to a high enough level, some styles have eliminated it completely for a more uniform and neater look. It’s the same in sword arts: old footage shows iaido masters leaning forward to reach longer, modern techniques are always with a straight back even to the detriment of power generation.
@@stickgarrote8582 I'd dispute that because in Kyokushin karate even in Japan they definitely lean into their punches, and you can see it in Kyokushin karate fights because the punches are extremely powerful hence why it has the reputation of being the most brutal and hardcore of karate styles...even in other Japanese martial arts there is leaning, judo for example, if you don't lean at all, how are you supposed successfully execute a throw or grab hold of your opponent? Perhaps it depends on the school or the actual style of martial arts itself....but I've definitely seem some Japanese martial artists that do lean in especially during tournaments
Yeah, it’s not black and white, more of a tendency and it probably affects styles that place a heavier emphasis on kata more. Competition isn’t a good indicator because everyone will do what works within the ruleset, not what they’re taught. To be honest, it’s hard for me to remember that kyokushin is japanese. It’s like they went the opposite way from other japanese styles, back to a more okinawan approach. But I have never actually practised a japanese style, so it’s all presumption from what I’ve seen. As for judo, it’s impossible to grapple with a straight back, but just look at judo kata. They can’t keep a straight back but they will try their darndest! The dojo etiquette you see in all japanese arts was taken from samurai culture and was later influenced by the military and I think both consider a bent back a sign of weakness and decadence. A straight back is a sign of strength and respect.
@@samulisiirala well Kyokushin was developed by a Korean....Mas Oyama was initially from Korea, his real name is Choi Young Eui except that he ended up living in Japan from a very young age and eventually became a naturalized Japanese citizen and changed his name to Masatsu Oyama....this could probably be the reason Kyokushin deviates so much from "traditional Japanese culture"....not to mention that Mas Oyama also trained under some Okinawan masters like Funakoshi Gichin and under one of Chojun Miyagi's former students....so I think he definitely got his roots in original Okinawan karate
If you want the hand to land... lead with the hand and commit to cover the distance. it's an all-in commitment to the move. (like diving into a pool) Sure, not shotokan(ish) but it doinked the guy pretty good. It doesn't have to look pretty to be effective.
I'm proud I practiced this sort of Karate back in younger days. My school was Shot-Ryu. We sparred bare-knuckle and full contact. It served me extremely well a couple of times in the streets, if you know, what I mean.
This guy really knows his karate history. He tells it without ego or bias.
I love that you don't put down modern karate for its differences, and recognise that there's a lot of skill involved still - just focused in different areas. A lot of these comparisons are just dunking on the ways in which it's changed, you go into the politics of the changes made and how martial artists have been forced to adapt to play by those new rules.
I love it how the Olympics doesn't want a martial art to appear too violent. Meanwhile MMA events continue to outpace the Olympics in viewership.
I love that the original Olympics were wrapped around the military and the modern Olympics are trying to distance themselves from anything too violent.
Viewership is kind of a bad comparsion point though. MMA is about ticket and PPV sales, the Olympics is not. So I don't think it really bothers them if they have less viewers than a UFC event. You can't compare something like ice hockey in this way either. Olympic ice hockey is like a mixed bag of all-stars in the sport that people who want to show loyalty to their country watch, but the actual ice hockey fans care more about NHL and other leagues that are there running a business and actually have to draw a crowd to keep going.
It's a bull*hit cop out anyway as ful contact is allowed in boxing. Punching some dudes soul out of his body is pretty violent. So what's the issue with Karate "being violent" exactly? It's nonsense
@@LanMandragon1720 Olympic Boxing isn't exactly full contact - The goal in Olympic Boxing is points, the goal in ProBoxing is effect.
Olympic Boxing is electronically scored as well as those scores being accepted or nixed by the judge(s) so the cleaner each hit the more likely it scores - crazy thing about Olympic Combat sports, if you score like crazy and I stagger you, wobble you or knock your ass out towards the end of the bout I am not making up for the early round scoring flurry.
ProBoxing by contrast is about what the scores do to your opponent, if I hit you and you ignore it so will the judge(s). Aggression, ring control and the effect of what's being thrown are what determine points - further, if I dominate you in points then you knock my ass out in the dying moments of the match all that work I did beforehand counts for squat, as well it should.
@@psychedashelland yet Olympic boxing still involves people hitting each other full contact.
I love how they’re trying to make a literal fighting style not “too violent”
Icy Mike and sensei Seth had it right when they said Jesse is martial arts equivalent of professor x. You go to him with all questions. He has the answers and just his knowledge alone will amaze you jsut as much even maybe much more than just hisnoshyical skills. He will control you with his mind alone !
I am realizing more and more how lucky I was to have a teacher that taught me alot of these old ways.
I'm old as dirt. To me, old school is from the 1960's. Guys like Mike Stone, Joe's Lewis, Bill Wallace, Benny The Jet, Chuck Norris.
One of the great martial art content in youtube.
Really good footage and so interesting to see the old school stuff.
Houjo undo is really useful for all arts , I think.
Old school has always been stronger. There were nearly no rules back in my day. There are too many rules today. We've lost something special along the way.
The sad thing is that many advocates for Traditional Martial Arts don't understand that the reason more people are gravitating towards MMA is because MMA encompasses what old school traditional martial arts used to be..that strength, power, brutality and warrior spirit which has been completely watered down and lost in traditional martial arts....they get upset when MMA is proven to be more functional and better for fighting not realising that TMA used to be like that but....I did taekwondo in high school and some of the rules were that we were not allowed to attack the legs, back or do any takedowns....and I realized how this conditioned me to be completely useless in a real fight especially against someone knew to how to exploit those weaknesses in my style when I faced someone who was a kickboxer in sort of a play play match after school one day....until traditional martial artists actually speak up and protest the BS rules that are put in place by the Olympics and the various sports bodies, MMA is going to gain more traction in popularity and eventually TMA will be a thing of the past
@@cyborgchicken3502 that's exactly right. We trained much differently and hardcore in my day than the modern traditionalists. What is taught today is too watered down. We trained for the street, and not so much for competition. Not everyone competes. But we all face real time adversaries sooner or later.
@@tylerscott9714 you can never train fully for the street
@@kbanghart one never knows the outcome until it's over. There are no rules in the street, and it's over much faster. I personally prefer training the old way with no rules.
@@tylerscott9714 if only that were totally possible. For example, there's no way to fully experience what it's like to gouge someone's eyes out, or grab their larynx to the point where they may stop breathing... Or break bones or joints, etc. Of course, it's good to try to train for that as close as you can to the real thing.
Great stuff as always, Rokas. Love this kind of thing👍
I trained in a Shorin-Ryu dojo in the 2010s until Covid hit. It was founded by an Okinawan in 1977. This video gave me a lot of “ohhh we did things that way too” moment. Our style wasn’t just “karate” it was just our style. MMA with no regulations. Gave me a huge sense of pride thinking back on how our master didn’t give a shit about modern Japanese karate and wanted us to know real survival tactics. Awesome video!!
This was cool to watch.
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
Oh, dude, on my home town we still train like the old school ones, also we use new knowledge in physical conditioning and body mechanics. Our Kumites are still like before. Oh dude, it's good to have found your channel, I've seen several things from you and all of them are satisfactory
where
Leave it to Jesse to perfectly explain why the Olympic head kick knockout disqualification was not just stupid, but stupid specifically WITHIN the rules of WKF karate
Excellent video! Loved the insight from Jesse.
No matter the sport, you gotta do some cardio. I hate running. My army drill sgt told us he would show us how running, especially with packs, is as close as you can come to dying without it happening. But, that it always makes you better. True. True.
Such a great vid, I went from wado in the uk 30 years ago to kick boxing and ju jitsu, the kick boxing club used all the old school systems, made me want to join a dojo again, thank you.
What a great Video thank you so much. Greetings from Germany!
Nice knew we would get some videos with Jessie and Oliver good luck in the fight mate 🙂
The Olympics has such a knack for making Martial Arts useless; in an actual competition using non-gamified techniques, old karate wins everytime.
You might think Olympic karate today is a good representation of what karate is Jesse but I don't think that's true. Imagine if Muay Thai went through the same thing, we wouldn't say Olympic style Muay Thai is the optimal way of doing the combat sport.
A combat sport is a combat sport, karate is no different (even if the other aspects of martial arts is included). Olympic karate is ineffective all round and now is this pseudo-game detached from its original purpose (Kendo being another good example).
it's the equivalent of fencing with foils vs basically any other school of swordsmanship. there may be something of value to it. it may help you adapt to other schools but, is definitely also the largest departure from purpose there is.
@@TGPDrunknHick Pretty much, I would say it's a far more sanitised version that arose due to lack of sparring (MMA's providing the necessary function, like HEMA has for fencing).
The Olympic did the same thing with wrestling. Before freestyle wrestling there was catch wrestling. And it was part of the Olympic. But then they banned submission. So instead they started using "amateur" catch as catch wrestling ( freestyle wrestling). Which was originally for kids since they couldn't do submission.
@@tichtran8792 and Taekwondo....I did ITF taekwondo in the mid 2000s and our training and local tournaments were insane, to see what it has become now is freaking sad....I don't even know why the Olympics are still a thing given how corrupt they are and how much of a shit show it is, especially with the recent winter Olympics in China....we should either reconsider the existence of the event or it needs to undergo a total revamp in rules and regulations
Just see what's become of Judo...
Very very nice video. I loved the old school footage. Thanks 🙏🏽
Damn man. I love your videos. It's not overproduced, but it's not cheesy. It's real.
Keep up the great work
Awesome content. Keep it up.
I was competing in the late 90s/early 2000s when the kumite scoring rules changed. Everyone's sparring started to change as well and I do think it became less effective for actual fighting. When I started doing full contact kickboxing, I had to make some adjustments and the fighting ended up being closer to what it had been before the WKF rule changes.
Very informative video. Loads of good info from Jesse.
Beautiful my friend. I learned a lot. Thank you.
I love the principle of function over form it's very practical and a great understanding
The Karate demonstrated in the latest Olympic Games may be a higher level of fighting but in a real fight wouldn't be able to handle being rushed in on by a flurry or strikes. Great video!
In my tang soo do school we use to run laps inside and outside. Thank you guy’s I love both of your channels. I always learn something when I watch
Great video, great collab!
I like the thumbnail 🙂
Kung Fu also has the same approach to Bunkai: people often have to figure out what the application is, but sometimes the teacher shows it. Many of those applications are really cool and have helped me in sparring, but it would be more efficient to just teach the application and practice again and again
Man what happened to Kung Fu is sad honestly....it's difficult to find any authentic combat applicable Kung Fu nowadays even in its homeland of China.... Apparently it's watering down into Modern Wushu had a lot to do with political reasons during Mao's Cultural Revolution in China but even before that it fell victim to bans by Japanese rule during their occupation in China and other political forces that I think just didn't want a civilian populace that knew how to defend itself
@@cyborgchicken3502 Yeah, it even goes back to imperial times
@@Bj-yf3im yeah you're right, but at least under the Manchu led Qing dynasty it wasn't that watered down, I think back then it just became more formalized for the Qing imperial army...I mean u hear about legendary fighters from that era in the 1800s like Fong Sai Yuk, Wong Fei Hung and his father Wong Kei Ying, Huo YuanJia as well who defeated several opponents from different countries in 1 on 1 bouts each fighting in their country's respective Martial Arts....so I think in imperial times it did still have it's combat application...but I agree that that's probably where the watering down started, maybe by the early 1900s after the Boxer Rebellion and the Xinghai Revolution of 1911
@@cyborgchicken3502 Yes, the Boxer Rebellion was definitely a major turning point where many lost faith in Kung Fu due to it's ineffectiveness against guns.
I love this guys keep it up
What a great video! you both make a great combination
I grew up in England in the 80s boxing. I remember we would watch tapes of martial arts, then JVD movies have hit and we were obsessed. Chopping it up with people about who would win Mike Tyson or Van Damme. Golden times. Love these old videos.
This was awesome really interesting
Thanks!
I think now karate is so famous that all the world federation they even dont care how effective it is. They just focus in sport rules and other staff.
The greatest shame... Is seeing a Karate guy win a gold medal in the Olympics for getting knocked out cold, because the other guy is DQ'd for excessive contact. 😂
Ryo Kiyuna's Gold Kata Performance was Peak traditional Karate though.
@@DragonDreamVNY it's an exceptional case. Generally I have seen on my own eyes few years before the opposite scene in national championship in my country and KO win was a common factor there.
Dope video! I love this! In my days in the dojo we trained some variant of these same exact old school methods.
My system is VSK jujitsu and there is much karate in that system. OUS! 👊🏽
I appreciate the 'old school' stuff because that is how I learned to train. I began Tang Soo Do under an instructor that didn't care how many students he had or if you liked what he taught. He was a Highway Patrolman, so he had a career, and he and his wife owned a gym. We had an area for training and the rest of the building had the weight equipment. We did all sorts of things I don't hear of today, like training on hot asphalt on a hot California summer day. Imagine doing knuckle push-ups on that! But he knew what he wanted to teach. We didn't know what we know today, and that makes a lot of difference. In fact, if you want to be concise, the difference between training back then vs today is that we just didn't know any better. If you were going to punch a guy, you just punched him. Same for kicks.
In one “old style” clip it was good to see Gōgen Yamaguchi, goju ryu karate master extraordinaire. He was the instructor with the long hair and who sadly passed away in 1989. I trained in both shotokan and goju styles during the late 60s and 70s. Although evolution is an unresistable part of life in general, I am saddened to see how the “do” has been removed from karate. A dinosaur, may be I am, but I feel I had the best years of karate.
You sure did! I could tell you some stories about the Cat. Dan Ivan took a group of us to Japan. Yamaguchi dojo was one of the first places we visited. Dan practiced with him in the late 40's. White , military... he didnt have an easy way to go. Didnt quit... I am watching the two of them converse 40 yrs later in Japanese. Had no idea what I was witnessing. Now 40 more yrs later the two of them passed and I am still blown away. It was on that trip I earned sho-dan from Dan Ivan. Big deal he was very important in getting people like Fumio Demura to the U.S. Particular about detail to say the least.
There is still some traditional goju in the states.
I used to practiced karate shotokan and got my red belt then stopped practicing due to certain events happening in my life during the time, but you guys explain everything so well you remind me of my former sensei, i really hope i can one day resume what made me fall in love with martial arts as whole, karate
Amazing quality content in this channel
Having both of you speaking directly to my younger self. Go Jo Ryu, is all I knew. And these old clips bring so much back. I excelled at grabbing my oppenents gui and yanking off of his center onto mine. Can't do that now?
Amazing video. Congrats mate!
Having lived through both eras, I would dispute that the technical level is higher now. I get so frustrated watching modern tournaments. Everyone fights the same way. I think that if I know how my opponent fights, I have the advantage. Some of my old Dojo mates were very dangerous fighters and they all fought differently.
There is a reason why I put my son into Judo School from Karate.
I remember watching my aikido journey and thinking I could definitely take him. Now you are a grandmaster, well rounded martial artist. Amazing growth my dude
old is always gold.oss
Oldschool karate is so badass, how do I learn it like that
Do Kyokushin, Goju, Uechi....any styles that cares more about full contact fighting than sporty semi contact
find old guys that fought that way, we still exist
Train full contact styles like Kyokushin, Ashihara, Enshin, etc. Or train with the Machida brothers
As I previously mentioned in other videos making martial arts a sport made it less effective for real world fighting. What I was wondering your thoughts on sports martial arts actually helped martial arts, it codified it in skill levels and fighting techniques. Which unlike traditional martial arts teaching was limited on who could learn allowed martial arts not to fad away preserving what remained from being lost like so many fighting methods. The problem that happened was focusing so much on the art and improving it losing focus on the practical aspects. aikido is like this focused more on tradition of the art than actual usefulness sort of a religious cult. Does this mean that its a fake martial art not at all just possibly the techniques were lost because no longer taught. I am not familiar with it but it looks like it was supposed to be prepared for swords and also should have such moves also.
6:00 I literally just asked my sensei if I need a new uniform, because I’ve lost so much weight since I bought it! Someone online said it looks like I’m wearing an old school uniform.
Re the first part of your video, I think you’ll find that at 3:05-3:30 the fighter is Alfie “The Animal” Lewis. His background was/is Lau Gar Kung Fu. So this would mean some of this old video is around the time English Karate Council under Ticky Donovan OBE who allowed him to participate in the British/English National Squad - 1987ish. Alfie’s competition background was as a WAKO World Champion (semi-contact). At the time 1970-80s Britain was a dominant force in sport/points karate, with fighters coming from many styles (of Karate) and fighting rule backgrounds; full-contact, semi-contact, clicker etc. I would suggest that differences between old and modern points karate is due to increasing homogeneity in the latter.
Karate combat is making Karate great again. Look it up, it's awesome.
A great format that showcases karate very well. If that was in the Olympics people would love it, but i don't think you'd get athletes doing six matches in two weeks! Interestingly, wkf athletes have taken part in this format and done just fine (presumably with some tweaks to their training)
Can you do a similar video but for Judo with Chadi?
He already did with Shintaro Sensei.
I'm thinking about comparing old-school vs modern Judo tournaments and training together with Shintaro Higashi :)
In cases like the Saudi vs Iranian, my experience was that the serious fighters in the tournament used to say to each other "Wake him up and give him his trophy." while shaking our heads at the judges.............
Love these videos. So cool.
i feel like the origins of all martial arts is kind of a melting pot/mma type thing but as time went on they all specialized
I am very much old school having learnt Tae Kwon Do back in the RAF (early 1970s )by a South Korean Army Major which both in training and sparring was full on, and on getting my Brown Belt and senior competition fighting was very much like the B&W film clips you showed. Many years later my stepdaughter took it up and achieved her black belt and I would sometimes go and watch her train and spar, also watching some inter-club competition fighting. After a while she asked me to stop coming because I could not believe how low the standard was of senior belts, poor kicks and punches and their 'bouncy bouncy' style which to me was laughable and looked more like they were dancing.
I recently came across the original RUclips you both were referring to and I showed it to my Stepdaughter and her reaction was one of surprise and astonishment. She asked me, if my sparring was like that, I answered that I was not at that level but essentially yes it was, especially the speed, far more strikes and actual contact. Her response was "WOW!!".
Explaining the politics of karate competitions was very enlightening. I appreciate the explanation about the Olympics. It makes a lot more sense now.
awesome, loved it.
ok I hate this video because it's comparing two different styles of karate, WKF Shotokan versus JKA Shotokan, JKA is still pretty rough, and Kyoukushin Tournaments are as rough as it gets when it comes to Karate outside of a few offshoots like the Sabaki Challenge tournament. This is like comparing Muay Thai to point kickboxing honestly.
"You don't see this anymore" Jesse my friend and brother in Karate, the JKA world championships look exactly like this, nevermind Kyoukushin which has never changed.
I totally disagree that modern karate is more skillful. I participated in karate tournaments in the 80s and early 90s. It used to be more like real fighting. The Olympics didn't want to appear to aggressive so they changed the rules. All that twitching and measuring "distance" can easily be overcome with aggressive pressure. That's why the older competition videos looked more frantic.
a more or less real (ie contact but there are rules) fight is going to be frantic. Olympic karate looks like a dance recital because people are more concerned with scoring points and looking a certain way than the act of fighting. Which is great if that's your thing.
I like how you mention the Japanese and french connection. As well as referencing fencing.
Another link i can make for context is that the first Meji era sword manual, was heavily based in a french military sabre manual from 1887.
I wear some light protection and practice strikes on a basketball pole. it really helps me realize how easily my own bones can break from the force of my own strikes.
I also have come to appreciate the force in smaller strikes. A strike with about a foot of travel range can still get the job done with your whole body providing momentum.
Both are fine in my opinion depends on what you are looking for.I think morden karate is just evolved karate. They are faster and more precise and needs high level of athleticism to execute . The speed and reaction time is honestly amaizing from a sports man view. Any way respect to both alot of work is put into perfecting the art
Agreed. The new form, as he said is meant to be safer as well. Less injury meaning you can last longer.
Old or New Kyokushin remains effective imo
great video!
Great video. And you're great, you explain a lot of thinghs that few people knows. I am so happy that i practised both traditional and modern karate. I loved sport kumite but also practise with maki wara, elbows and kneews, takedown and weapons. My wife also do kata and bunkai, i think that karate is the most complete martial art if you do that in it's entirety
Jessie is being nice, because while modern karate is considered more cerebral, throwing a punch with power has very different mechanics than a touch, something he didn't mention but probably knows.
Old school karate was clearly better suited to prepare someone for a real fight.
Nice seeing Doulgas Brose fighting, I was able to see him in my graduation and take a picture with him. More amazing nowing my teacher used or still trains with him. :)
Around 13:19.. Jesse makes the comment of the karateka doing the kata full force. I remember watching an old shotokan clip on youtube maybe two months ago, and same thing, they were blocking and punching with absolute full force! MAN that had to have been exhausting!
Dude, that 2020 kick was beautiful and just so well done. It made karate look so goood. I liked the old school gis too.
5:51 Bruh, that looks awesome on camera. Kinda sounds like the officials are pretty out of touch with what most audiences would like to see from martial arts-based sports, lol.
the best clips the old KUGB squad ..pity no clips of sensei brennan ... best ive ever seen
That is a great footage of the great fighter from Liverpool UK, Alfie(THE ANIMAL) Lewis ,love your journey around the Martial arts
8 minutes 14 seconds in- That brought back a lot of memories.
Man do I wish karate fights where still like this.
Big ups to Jesse talking about how impact training is mainly about Kinesthetic Understanding. I've only heard 3 sense is talk about it. And how it's about building up in form and technique, etc till you know your form and self well enough to deliver a hard punch and handle the impact.
Good video. A few years ago, my Ju-Jitsu instructor told me "Karate is sharp. Ju-Jitsu is sloppy, but effective". He was speaking of sports karate with point sparring and it's crisp kata. There is a close the gap and engage mentality in Ju-Jitsu that is missing in sports karate. Both are valid and have their place.
Thank You for your video.
Thanks for subtitles in spanish.