Destroying Soryu

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  • Опубликовано: 23 янв 2025

Комментарии • 174

  • @centralcrossing4732
    @centralcrossing4732  Год назад +31

    Here is the usual goodie bag of notes:
    Images for Soryu's loss are in limited supply, so related images are used.
    The number of bomb hits has been called into question from different sources. The bomb in question is the one that struck furthest aft. Some sources say that the hit has not been confirmed, but I included it as US pilots and the Japanese reported 3 hits. I'll just advise here to take that hit with a possible grain of salt.
    Small details vary between sources, this video is meant to present major points.
    Though I don't directly say it, the hits fully displayed the poor defensive qualities of the 'medium type' aircraft carrier. You can learn more about the defects in the design in my 2 videos covering Soryu's and Hiryu's development here:
    ruclips.net/video/hcMQ6MUCVXI/видео.html
    ruclips.net/video/jSoFiyxVGZQ/видео.html
    Sorry for any mispronunciations.

    • @billwatkins8227
      @billwatkins8227 Год назад +1

      The thing that struck me the most about the demise of the carriers was the amount of wood used in their construction, and the flammable liquids used to paint, lubricate and fuel the ships. They were blowtorches waiting to happen. That’s why they practically burned to the waterline rather than sank. They were in salvageable and needed to be sunk by the Japanese themselves.

    • @ijnfleetadmiral
      @ijnfleetadmiral 9 месяцев назад +1

      There are ZERO photos showing Akagi, Kaga, or Soryu's final moments.

  • @takashitamagawa5881
    @takashitamagawa5881 Год назад +44

    For the record, "Shattered Sword" by Jonathan Parshall and Anthony P. Tully states that the hits forward and amidships occurred before the hit aft. It's not conclusive which hit was THE first, as the 1,000 lb bombs struck nearly simultaneously.

  • @jmrodas9
    @jmrodas9 Год назад +6

    It is very interesting to see this video on how the Soryu was hit by bombs. Its destruction was caused not only by the bomb hits, but the fact its hangars were full of loaded and fueled planes, and that in their haste to change weapons, many bombs were not in the proper place for storiing them but were simpl put aside of theplanes being loaded.

    • @manilajohn0182
      @manilajohn0182 Год назад

      Soryu's hangars contained the aircraft from the attack on Midway, which were to comprise the second wave of the "grand scale" attack on the U.S. carriers- and were in the process of rearming.
      Per the statement of Soryu's senior surviving officer (Executive officer Hisaishi Ohara) the first wave of that attack (18 D3As and 3 A6Ms) was on the flight deck awaiting the order to launch. This is corroborated by the after- action report of VB- 3, which stated that the carrier flight deck had many aircraft spotted aft.

  • @kulot-ki1tu
    @kulot-ki1tu Год назад +32

    out of akagi kaga and hiryuu, soryuu is the least covered of the 4 so its good to see more topics about it

    • @billwatkins8227
      @billwatkins8227 Год назад +1

      As I said in another post, please read Shattered Sword. You won’t be disappointed. Enjoy!

    • @kulot-ki1tu
      @kulot-ki1tu Год назад

      i dont know where to find copies of it online since i dont have money to spare right now to buy it but that book has been on the back of my mind everytime midway is brought up so ill have to give it a try someday considering i dont often read books lol@@billwatkins8227

  • @billwatkins8227
    @billwatkins8227 Год назад +65

    Please, anyone who loves history, especially about Midway, read Shattered Sword. Best book on the demise of the Soryu and the other three carriers.

    • @seanbryan4833
      @seanbryan4833 Год назад +5

      Yes. Shattered Sword is THE authoritative book on the battle of Midway. It blows away many myths that were written about the battle in previous histories. After reading it you will understand not only what happened, but exactly why it happened the way it did.

    • @adamperry4347
      @adamperry4347 Год назад +2

      @@seanbryan4833 My question, where did the IJN carrier log books come from as the ships were obliterated?

    • @richardhaynes6934
      @richardhaynes6934 Год назад +2

      Totally agree. Shattered Sword is outstanding 👍

    • @billwatkins8227
      @billwatkins8227 Год назад +2

      @@adamperry4347 I don’t know as a fact, but wouldn’t it be logical that a senior officer abandoning ship would take them? What do you think?

    • @adamperry4347
      @adamperry4347 Год назад +1

      @@billwatkins8227 That may or may not have been the case given the presumed chaos on-board the ships. Why have those records only been revealed now? Prange did a pretty exhaustive job for his Miracle at Midway by telling both sides of the battle. Why wasn't he privy to those same ship's logs?
      From the introduction to said book:
      "Prange's Japanese interviews are especially valuable, for little documentation on Midway is available. Whatever war plans, orders, working papers, messages and other documents that were aboard Nagumo's four carriers were lost forever when those ships went down at Midway."
      Wouldn't it stand to reason that Gordon Prange would have expected the surviving officers of the sinking IJN carriers to have maintained possession of the ship's logs? Yet he states that those very same logs were lost to time. Is one to believe he only inquired of one individual about those logs?

  • @Caktusdud.
    @Caktusdud. Год назад +25

    Its interesting to look at the aftermath of the air attack on kido butai and what happened afterwards, we know that the carriers were mostly scuttled but its the details that don't really get talked about.
    Its good to see a video talking about that.

    • @seanbryan4833
      @seanbryan4833 Год назад +3

      All four Japanese carriers were scuttled with torpedoes, as they were burned out hulks but their hulls were still intact. The Japanese wanted to ensure that the Americans couldn't tow those wrecks back to Pearl Harbor to display as trophies.

  • @jamesricker3997
    @jamesricker3997 Год назад +16

    The first bombs also took out Soryu's warter main so fire fighting became almost impossible

    • @billwatkins8227
      @billwatkins8227 Год назад +3

      Combine your fact with the wood and flammable liquids used in abundance on IJN ships and you got a fireball.

  • @billotto602
    @billotto602 Год назад +9

    A very good video. I've heard anything about the endings of any of the Japanese carriers that day. I hope you've made similar ones on the other 3. Thank-you !

    • @billwatkins8227
      @billwatkins8227 Год назад +2

      Please read Shattered Sword. It goes into detail about the ships and their demise.

    • @billotto602
      @billotto602 Год назад

      @@billwatkins8227 cool. Thanks

  • @MrEjidorie
    @MrEjidorie Год назад +8

    Prior to the battle of Midway, I guess few Japanese Naval officers believed that Japanese task force (Kido Butai) would be defeated there. They were overconfident about their ability, and underrated the US navy. Since their loss at Midway, the situation was turned around completely. Imperial Navy was completely annihilated at the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October, 1944.

    • @barryguerrero6480
      @barryguerrero6480 5 месяцев назад +1

      That point is made and leaned upon often. The real problem was in the plans of the Midway invasion itself. That, and the fact that Japanese believed the U.S. could never break their naval code. The Midway plans broke up the combined strength of the Japanese navy into a numerous, greatly separated divisions. The four frontline carriers were shoved to the fore with far too few anti-aircraft guns to surround them. The Yamato, Yamamoto and several other battleships were hundreds of miles behind. They never even came close to the action.

  • @simon_ghost_rilley252
    @simon_ghost_rilley252 Год назад +8

    well done on the video loved it

  • @manveerparmar6570
    @manveerparmar6570 Год назад +16

    Hopefully rv petrel or some other group will find the wreck of IJN Soryu as Akagi and Kaga have been found and Soryu is'nt that far off from their locations.

    • @williammitchell4417
      @williammitchell4417 Год назад +3

      It would depend on how many pieces she's in. Akagi was in several pieces when she was found.

    • @ijnfleetadmiral
      @ijnfleetadmiral 9 месяцев назад

      @@williammitchell4417 Akagi is in one piece (hull intact), as is Kaga, albeit both heavily damaged.

  • @Tony-pk6ql
    @Tony-pk6ql Год назад +6

    Nice video-well done.

  • @ts.elliot5870
    @ts.elliot5870 4 месяца назад +1

    Another channel I'd recommend is Montemayor. He has quite a few WWII south pacific battles. They are very well done.

  • @aldenconsolver3428
    @aldenconsolver3428 Год назад +8

    Much appreciate your pinned comment. The errors in the reporting were totally expected, two hangers filled with armed and fueled aircraft (along with some poor damage control) leaves an exact accounting of hits impossible. I would have expected many of the bombs and torpedo's on the armed aircraft below could have exploded.

  • @sgt.grinch3299
    @sgt.grinch3299 Год назад +11

    I didn’t know that the Japanese Officers sacrificed 700 plus men on the ship. May they have peace as they stand eternal watch.

    • @EllieMaes-Grandad
      @EllieMaes-Grandad Год назад +3

      I wondered about that too. Such a waste of trained personnel, presuming they were still alive - many dead must have been aboard.

    • @rickgehring7507
      @rickgehring7507 Год назад +2

      @@EllieMaes-Grandad survivor accounts generally state that there wasn't enough time to get to those in the lower decks, and most avenues or escape were blocked off by fires, keep in mind that once the Boilers stopped operating so did the Water pumps for fire control.

    • @marksteiner3810
      @marksteiner3810 Год назад +3

      @@EllieMaes-Grandad Captain Yanagimoto stayed on the bridge of Soryu until the end, and presumably went down with the ship.

    • @Whitpusmc
      @Whitpusmc Год назад +7

      I’m not sure about the language used. Presumably the loss of personnel is mathematically the original complement - those saved = went down with ship. A bunch of those lost died in the explosions and fires so it would be difficult to determine how many were alive when the order came to scuttle. Even if unlimited time was available how many were irrevocably trapped below decks by fires, damaged passageways etc and / or already succumbed to fumes / heat / lack of oxygen. Some also remained at their posts deliberately.

    • @kevinrussell1144
      @kevinrussell1144 Год назад

      Japan THREW AWAY thousands if not 10's of thousands of suicide pilots in '44 and '45, when, in defiance of their own eyes and brains, they refused to admit they had lost the war and would only assure the deaths of 100's of thousands of more civilian Japanese. Melodramatic Bushido honor.......really goes well with paper cities and a gutted military establishment, don't you think?
      Tyrannical governments, like our own current one, come to think of it, sure are a boon to mankind, the world over?
      Can't we learn to mind our OWN FUCKING business, not tell others how to educate and groom their children, conduct honest business with honest exchange (real money), and learn to get along with each other???

  • @Imnotyourdoormat
    @Imnotyourdoormat 8 месяцев назад +1

    Kaga Akagi and Soryu were all set ablaze and mortally wounded in about 5 minutes...quite something to consider. Hiryu was sent to the "Deep-6" the next morning. Only Shokaku and Zuikaku remained of the original Pearl Harbor Task Force...The Drawing/Painting at 5:35 appears extremely accurate. KUTGW

  • @chrismulligan6987
    @chrismulligan6987 9 месяцев назад +1

    For future reference: yes, 'IJN' is simply, what it is; but, the precusor in title to all Japanese warships (c. mid-1800s to Sep1945) is 'HIJMS'.

  • @scottgarbs7761
    @scottgarbs7761 Год назад +4

    Did the Japanese torpedo Soryu while the damage control teams were still aboard?

    • @JerryGivan
      @JerryGivan Год назад

      Does sound like that,following orders to the sad end.

  • @NathanDudani
    @NathanDudani Год назад +7

    I can't Hiryu when you're underwater, Soryu

  • @73Trident
    @73Trident Год назад +1

    Good job on the video. Thanks and Subscribed.

  • @shb7772000if
    @shb7772000if Год назад +4

    Nice video. Explains what happened very well. Wonder why the Japanese carriers were apparently so close together, but the Japanese planes that hit Yorktown, apparently never saw hornet or enterprise?

    • @Kitty-CatDaddy
      @Kitty-CatDaddy Год назад +2

      Yorktown was seperated from them as the Navy split Yktn and her screening destroyers as their own seperate task force from Etrps and Hrnt. They had enough seperation to keep the two task forces far enough apart to not be all spotted and attacked as what happened to Kido Butai.

    • @shb7772000if
      @shb7772000if Год назад +1

      @@Kitty-CatDaddy what is the kido butai?

    • @Kitty-CatDaddy
      @Kitty-CatDaddy Год назад +3

      @@shb7772000if BASICALLY, the four IJN carriers.

    • @jmrodas9
      @jmrodas9 11 месяцев назад

      @@shb7772000if I've read it means mobile force in Japanese. Regards-

    • @ijnfleetadmiral
      @ijnfleetadmiral 9 месяцев назад +1

      Yorktown was in a separate Task Force than Enterprise and Hornet. Hence why she was operating independently.

  • @christophersnyder1532
    @christophersnyder1532 Год назад +2

    I hope you will show us your progress on your 1/350 Taiho, if not, thaat is perfectly fine.
    I like the aesthics of both Soryu, and Hiryu, however, I like the Imperial Japanese Navy aircraft carriers, in general.
    Take care, and all the best.

    • @centralcrossing4732
      @centralcrossing4732  Год назад +2

      I'll probably upload images of the Taiho when it's done.
      Also, I did start watching Decision. It's actually fairly good so far.
      Thank you, take care as well.

  • @powellmountainmike8853
    @powellmountainmike8853 Год назад +1

    Very interesting video. Thanks.

  • @Backwardlooking
    @Backwardlooking Год назад +16

    Still have the 1960’s British photographic books of the I.J.N. published and purchased then. 👍🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇺🇸 A very dangerous opponent only defeated at Midway with intelligence decryption. bravery and a huge portion of luck.

    • @barryguerrero6480
      @barryguerrero6480 5 месяцев назад +1

      The major factor you don't list is very, VERY poor planning on the part of Yamamoto's staff. They weakened the combined strength of their navy on the Midway job, by breaking it up into numerous small divisions. The four frontline carriers were pushed out to the fore with far too few anti-aircraft guns surrounding them. Their big battleships never even came close to the action.

  • @eiwtsexiang
    @eiwtsexiang Год назад +3

    off-topic question since you seem well-versed in IJN stuff.
    Given the placement of Nagato's 10 meter rangefinder, how could it rotate without bumping into the fire control director? Sorry I can't provide an image here, but if you look at Nagato's rangefinder you can see its blocked by some superstructure behind it (presumably the fire directors).

    • @centralcrossing4732
      @centralcrossing4732  Год назад +4

      Interesting question.
      The rangefinder on Nagato is actually not sitting in front of anything. It is attached to a central rotating cylinder that gave it a 360 rotation field.
      gue.com/blog/wrecks-in-depth-the-ijn-nagato-bikini-atoll/
      In this article, the 4th image down with the caption 'Nagato in very bad shape' shows the rangefinder arm in a position rotated to starboard.

    • @eiwtsexiang
      @eiwtsexiang Год назад +1

      @@centralcrossing4732 That is amazing, thank you!

  • @panic_2001
    @panic_2001 Год назад +6

    cool video
    a quick question about it:
    on the Akagi, a 1000 pound bomb (which exploded in the hangar deck) was enough to destroy the carrier - on the Soryu, would the first hit be enough?

    • @shawnc1016
      @shawnc1016 Год назад +3

      Probably. The extra hits really sped things along and increased the loss of life.

    • @horsestewart9864
      @horsestewart9864 Год назад +2

      The two near-misses destroyed Akagi's water main, and jammed her rudder.
      That was enough to doom her.

    • @panic_2001
      @panic_2001 Год назад

      I still have a thick head from the start of the Bundesliga, but no - two near misses don't bother a converted battle cruiser. A 500 kilo bomb in the hangar with loaded Kates, on the other hand, does.@@horsestewart9864

  • @davidangelo8902
    @davidangelo8902 Год назад +1

    Thank you for a very interesting video!

  • @AGallion
    @AGallion 5 месяцев назад

    The destruction of Soryu was absolutely devastating, and since she was the weakest out of the three carriers hit during the first dive bomber attack, I was generally surprised she was even still afloat by the time the order was given to scuttle her, but she did sink in 3 minutes after the torpedoes hit her, so there's that.

  • @geoffgeon
    @geoffgeon Год назад +12

    Nice vid. But a bit on the pronunciation of Sōryū (Souryuu) and also Hiryū (Hiryuu). They're Japanese names, so the yū part is actually a part of "ryū/ryuu". And with that, you should pronounce their names as Sō-ryū (Sou (like the word 'sew') - rew (kinda like 'new')) and Hi-ryū (Hi (like i in the word 'bit') - rew (kinda like 'new)), not Sor-yū and Hir-yū.
    Edit: Maybe pronouncing ryuu like riew (as in the word view) might sound closer.

    • @TyrannoJoris_Rex
      @TyrannoJoris_Rex Год назад +1

      So like soroo and hiroo?

    • @geoffgeon
      @geoffgeon Год назад +1

      @@TyrannoJoris_Rex My bad; thinking again maybe more like So-Riew and Hi-Riew, like the word view, should be closer. It’s kinda hard to compare the sound of -ya, -yu, and -yo to English.

    • @paulreilly3904
      @paulreilly3904 Год назад +2

      If they were going to scuttle her why didn't they get the last crew off. All 700+ of them?

    • @johnh2410
      @johnh2410 Год назад

      Those were the ones killed by the bomb blasts and ensuing fires. @@paulreilly3904

    • @mako88sb
      @mako88sb Год назад +1

      @@paulreilly3904. How many were still alive at that point? I don’t think too many given the extent of the explosions and fires. Anyone that was alive were most likely trapped in locations that didn’t allow for many to escape. I read a couple books about the USS Benjamin Franklin(CV-13) and the crew went through a lot that would have been similar to the Sōryū’s situation with over 800 men killed.

  • @williamtobin9404
    @williamtobin9404 Год назад +2

    Seeing as the aircraft carrier is a floating city let’s just say 2,000+ people were aboard when it was put out at sea how many would survive the encounter with American aircraft after the three bomb hits

  • @bradclifton5248
    @bradclifton5248 Год назад +9

    Crazy that they fired torpedoes without fully evacuating.

    • @PegasusB
      @PegasusB Год назад +1

      I was wondering the same. They sank the carrier before evacuating everyone?

    • @PauloPereira-jj4jv
      @PauloPereira-jj4jv Год назад +1

      ​@@PegasusB... yes.

    • @AS-gv2es
      @AS-gv2es 11 месяцев назад +1

      Who could be evacuated, were evacuated

    • @bradclifton5248
      @bradclifton5248 11 месяцев назад

      @@AS-gv2es so they wee trapped in parts they could not get out of?

    • @ijnfleetadmiral
      @ijnfleetadmiral 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@bradclifton5248 Yes. Most of the engine room crews aboard Kaga and Soryu were trapped by the fires raging in the hangars above them.

  • @AAAA88927
    @AAAA88927 Год назад +1

    How much bomb damage did hms illustrious take in the Mediterranean

    • @rickgehring7507
      @rickgehring7507 Год назад

      Paul-Werner Hozzel (lead Stuka pilot 1st wave on 1.7.41 ) said that they hit Illustrious with 6 bombs, all 550lbs, the 2nd wave hit her with just one 550lbs bomb, British reports say that 2 near misses caused Flooding from hull damage.
      1.16.41 while in port for repairs ,Illustrious was attacked again, one 500kg(1100lbs bomb) hit her after section, but it was the missed bombs that caused high waves that damaged her hull and caused flooding and the resulting 5-7degree list...She took a MAJOR beating and her reward was being scrapped in 56 or 57 I don't remember.

  • @ManuelDiaz-on7tg
    @ManuelDiaz-on7tg Год назад

    Upper AND lower hangars?

  • @mspionage1743
    @mspionage1743 10 дней назад

    Interesting that Soryu has still not be located despite Kaga and Akagi being located. I would think all three should be generally in the same vicinity but apparently not.

  • @paulboger3101
    @paulboger3101 Год назад +5

    Slightly off topic, why didn't the Japanese commanders order the Hiryu to recover all the planes it could, and head back to Japan asap? They could of had an extra carrier, and rebuilt the air wing, instead of losing the whole lot.

    • @parrot849
      @parrot849 Год назад +6

      I think Yamamoto had lost situational awareness of the battle by that time and Hiryu was just doing it’s own thing: seeking revenge and not thinking strategically

    • @paulboger7377
      @paulboger7377 Год назад +2

      @@parrot849 Probably. He may have thought he could still win. But the on scene commander should of ordered a retreat and disobeyed Yamamoto.

    • @billwatkins8227
      @billwatkins8227 Год назад +6

      Read Shattered Sword for the answer to your question. You will love the book.

    • @manilajohn0182
      @manilajohn0182 Год назад +3

      @@billwatkins8227 Shattered Sword is a mixed bag which should be read with extreme caution. The authors' primary source is not the official history which they claim it to be, and they conveniently leave out critical information which knocks the bottom out from under the central "revelation" of the book. In fact, the authors presume, at a few points in the work, to even tell the reader what some senior Japanese officers were thinking- a big- no-no in any historical work.
      It does however, provide a treasure trove of information of details of Japanese carrier operations. The authors' analysis of the battle remains poor however, so reader beware.

    • @billwatkins8227
      @billwatkins8227 Год назад +2

      @@manilajohn0182 ok, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Please let me know where I can get the official history you reference. I would enjoy as you have, to make the comparisons. If it’s multiple sources, that’s ok too. Thanks

  • @noyfub
    @noyfub Год назад

    Interesting details.

  • @ruthc8407
    @ruthc8407 Год назад +2

    So sorry Soryu. Gomennasai. Warui karuma.

  • @pastalover437
    @pastalover437 Год назад

    Great video

  • @ThomasWIck-ms5tj
    @ThomasWIck-ms5tj Год назад +2

    Japanese ships in general carried less crew than US ships. This I believe affected damage control throughout the war. This is not to say Soryu' could have been saved. The ship was doomed with 3 spaced out hits and secondary explosions and fire.

  • @AndrewCampbell-ut6jk
    @AndrewCampbell-ut6jk Год назад

    Were do you get your information from?

  • @MrAndyBearJr
    @MrAndyBearJr Год назад +3

    The same bomb that destroyed the forward elevator also set off the explosion of a fuel truck parked on the hangar deck under the carrier's island, causing a secondary explosion and sending flaming aviation gasoline in all directions hampering damage control efforts and severely crippling command and control.

    • @manilajohn0182
      @manilajohn0182 Год назад +2

      That took place aboard Kaga, and not Soryu.

  • @robertjessen1554
    @robertjessen1554 Год назад

    Very good.

  • @clearedhot7030
    @clearedhot7030 Год назад +7

    Considering the atrocities the Japanese committed against men, women and even little children in China, I'm not surprised they would murder 700 of their own Sailors, just because it was a little inconvenient to rescue them. The atrocities committed by the Germans will never be forgotten, but the atrocities committed by the Japanese are barely known. I don't know why the Japanese gets a pass?

  • @manilajohn0182
    @manilajohn0182 Год назад

    Crosser, I trust that you found Captain Ohara's January 1946 interrogation at the NDL digital collection site which I provided.

    • @centralcrossing4732
      @centralcrossing4732  Год назад

      Yes. I thank you for being kind in providing your response without the links so I could see it.

    • @manilajohn0182
      @manilajohn0182 Год назад

      @@centralcrossing4732 You're very welcome. The proper study of history is the study for truth- and your channel is an outstanding example of that.
      Best Regards...

  • @kristelvidhi5038
    @kristelvidhi5038 Год назад +1

    Soryu: Sorry-u guys. 😂

  • @irishrover4658
    @irishrover4658 Год назад

    It's always nice to see a Pearl Harbor vet go to the bottom.

  • @jeffreyoneill6439
    @jeffreyoneill6439 Год назад +4

    So the Japanese ordered the destruction of their own ship WITH HER ENTIRE CREW ON BOARD!
    Sounds like it fits the stories of the cold-bloodenest of the rest of the war.

    • @shawnc1016
      @shawnc1016 Год назад +3

      Most of them were killed by explosions.

    • @tbd-1
      @tbd-1 Год назад +5

      Soryu's crew numbered around 1,100. Most who went down with the ship were already dead, too badly wounded to get off or trapped below decks and unable to be rescued.

  • @dewood9463
    @dewood9463 Год назад +1

    Japanese seemed to love dying, for the cause.

  • @manilajohn0182
    @manilajohn0182 Год назад +8

    Despite what some books such as "Shattered Sword" claim, the contemporary historical record shows that Soryu had her aircraft for the strike against the U.S. carriers (18 Vals and 3 Zeros) on her flight deck, and not in her hangars. Her hangars contained the aircraft for the second wave of the attack against the U.S. carriers.
    This is borne out by four sources. The first is the after- action report of Yorktown and statements of U.S. aviators who attacked Soryu and reported that its flight deck was covered with planes spotted aft. The second is the USSBS statement of Soryu's senior surviving officer, Commander Hisaishi Ohara. Ohara stated that Soryu's strike was on the flight deck awaiting the order to launch when the ship was attacked. The third is the last landing time of aircraft aboard Soryu. Because the Japanese could and often did launch CAP sections from abreast of the ship's island, this is the sole criteria by which it can be established that Soryu had the available time to spot her strike. As I recall, Soryu last landed aircraft aboard at 0950- and thus had the time to spot 21 aircraft on her flight deck. The fourth is the Nagumo report, which makes clear that the Japanese strike against the U.S. carriers was to be a two- wave attack. It also states that the attacks were to be made in the 1030- 1100 time frame.
    Cheers...

    • @centralcrossing4732
      @centralcrossing4732  Год назад +7

      I discussed this comment with a few other people that are also well read on this topic and we decided there are a few issues that stand out and can't be ignored.
      Firstly, after action reports are not always reliable due to exaggeration and post event recording. This isn't to say they are through and through wrong, but the Yorktown pilots could have observed fighters assembled on the ship in a smaller number than proposed. Then they report what could be 5 planes as an inflated number. Misidentifying or inflating was not unheard of in after action reports.
      Secondly, using 9:50 as the final time an aircraft landed giving the ship a window is highly circumstantial due to external events impacting the carrier's operation. Doctrine is something I've seen navies disregard countless times, but Midway is a case where it was heavily enforced. While being attacked, the carriers had to prioritize their own safety which continually resulted in air strikes being put off. This is well documented with the carriers in this battle so the flight deck was clear not only for launching, but landing CAP. Even if no fighters are recorded to have landed after 9:50, that doesn't mean there weren't isolated points where they did. Nor does it eliminate the possibility that they would need to land again on short notice.
      Thirdly, it's known the flight decks of the other 3 carriers were clear at the time of bombing. The question is why would Soryu be different? That is a huge break in operation and doesn't make sense. Especially when it's considered that the order to prepare the attack aircraft for spotting wasn't given, rather only its fighters to reinforce the CAP.
      Fourth, there are a few points brought up that aren't universal when applied. The A6M clearly needed the least amount of deck to take off, but abreast the island is not a universal term as the ships were different sizes and the islands had different placements. Due to the necessary distance and size of the ship, the fighters had to be set back near the funnels to have just enough space to take off. This puts one of the elevators in a no use zone and the other 2 would be tampered by any potential landings. The storage of aircraft was as follows: fighters were in the forward and middle of the upper hangar, torpedo planes in the after lower hangar, and dive bombers in the after upper hangar and forward lower hangar. With CAP landing or taking off, they couldn't use the forward or aft elevators which were the only ones available for the D3A. This means that they couldn't bring up at least half of these if we say no plane landed and they used the aft elevator, but there was no chance of the forward one being used.
      Fifth, Soryu didn't have 18 D3A bombers on board, it had 54 planes all together. 18 A6M, 16 D3A, 18 B5N, and 2 D4Y-1. So it couldn't spot 18 units if it didn't carry that amount for this particular battle. I'm aware Nagumo's report says 18 bombers.
      Sixth, Nagumo's report gave proposed times if actions played to his favor (which they didn't). It says "In reply to this CarDiv 1 advised that its ship-based attack planes (torpedo equipped) would be ready for the take-off at 0730 and CarDiv 2 that its ship-based attack planes (to be equipped with torpedoes upon their return from the first attack), would be ready for the take-off by from 0730 to 0800. Subsequent to this, every effort was made to expedite completing preparations for the take-off of Organization Number 4. (Akagi: 3 ship-based fighters; 18 ship-based attack planes. Kaga: 3 ship-based fighters; 27 ship-based attack planes. Hiryu: 3 ship-based fighters; 18 ship-based bombers. Soryu: 3 ship-based fighters; 18 ship-based bombers)."
      There isn't really a 2 wave attack planned, rather div2 had to wait for its Midway force to return and land so it had aircraft to assemble with Div1. The estimated time of takeoff was about the same between the 2 divs. Again, these times relied on an uninterrupted scenario that didn't happen as is stated later in the report.
      This last point is regarding Ohara, namely the fact I haven't seen his account. Now I won't disregard his account if he did say the attack wave was spotted, but it's highly suspicious considering the endless factors that stack up against it.
      I'll admit this is an interesting topic to discuss, but I'm not entirely convinced here. Thanks for bringing it to the table though.
      Edit:
      So a friend found Ohara's account post war during interrogations:
      "How many hits did you receive?
      A. About twelve planes divided into three groups dove upon us at the same time. One group on each bow and one from astern. We received three hits. The first hit in the middle of the flight deck between the two elevators. It went through and exploded in the lower hanger deck, setting planes on fire which had returned from MIDWAY and were refueled and rearmed. The second hit in the center just forward of the forward elevator, starting a fire on the flight deck and hanger deck. The third hit was near the after elevator."
      "Did the planes from the SORYU attack the U.S. carriers?
      A. No, they attacked MIDWAY. Then while they were being refueled to attack the American carriers, the SORYU was attacked and damaged so the flight of planes could not be launched. The planes were delayed while changing bombs to attack the carriers."
      He gives different bomb detonation locations from what I have in the video (though I did address some confusion regarding the bomb hits in my pinned comment), but he specified that the aircraft were in the hangars. So I'm lost as to what account you have used.

    • @rohanthandi4903
      @rohanthandi4903 Год назад +2

      @@centralcrossing4732 I feel like this would have been mentioned in other observations if it was true (planes blowing up and burning on deck)

    • @manilajohn0182
      @manilajohn0182 Год назад

      @@rohanthandi4903 It was mentioned in other observations.
      U.S. dive bomber pilots and gunners, the executive officer of Soryu, and the air officer of Kaga all stated to this effect. Moreover, the two Japanese officers involved had a responsibility for knowing the status of the ship's air groups- unlike pilots and individual crewmen, who had their own duties to perform and, as octogenarians, gave only passing and conditional references to what they saw.
      Cheers...

    • @centralcrossing4732
      @centralcrossing4732  Год назад +8

      @@manilajohn0182 I wouldn't necessarily consider those 'other observations' as you already brought them up.
      Here's the section in question from the Yorktown report:
      "The dive bombers commenced their approach from 14,500 feet out of the sun upon a large CV believed to be of the Akagi Class. Its flight deck was covered with planes spotted aft. Upon sighting our aircraft, the CV turned right to a Southerly course in order to launch planes. The sides of the carrier turned into a veritable ring of flame as the enemy commenced firing small caliber and anti-aircraft guns. There was no fighter opposition at altitude. The attack signal was executed and individual planes of VF-3 took interval for diving as the first enemy planes was being launched. Diving from the South, all pilots had a steady dive along the fore and aft line of the target. The first bomb exploded directly in the midst of the spotted planes, turning the after part of the flight deck into a sheet of flame. A fighter was blown over the side as it was being launched. Five direct hits and three very near misses were scored immediately thereafter. 3-B-14 and 3-B-15 upon seeing the carrier so heavily hit and burning furiously, shifted their dives to the light cruiser plane guard, scoring a near miss and hit on the fantail. 3-B-12 and 3-B-16 likewise shifted to a nearby battleship and scored a direct hit on the stern and a near miss."
      It is far from reliable upon reading it. The carrier being bombed was misidentified, the number of hits was inflated, and the actions of the ship are not supported and are even victim of assumption to a degree. "Upon sighting our aircraft, the CV turned right to a southerly course in order to launch planes." This statement could be based on an observation that hasn't been reported by the Japanese side, but the reason for the turn is flat assumption by the Yorktown report.
      As for the witnesses you're bringing up for the Japanese, they don't support spotted aircraft either as I addressed in my first comment. Ohara flat out said the bombs detonated the planes in the hangars and that they were still preparing the aircraft in the hangars to attack the US carriers. I quoted him in my first comment.
      To say the crew and pilots would be unaware of the Air group's status is strange too because these men were doing the physical labor of preparing, moving and using the aircraft. They knew the status better than anyone as the information they gave to their commanders is how the commanders made timing decisions.
      I am really interested in what you've read because it doesn't line up with anything that you're saying is a source. I've quoted all of them and only the Yorktown report has reported aircraft spotted aft and even has the first of '5' bombs hit the planes. Ignoring the inflated number of bomb hits, it's the only piece that has that bomb strike first. The story is really not piecing together for what anyone on my end can see.

    • @mbryson2899
      @mbryson2899 Год назад

      Next up; Did the British sink the _Bismarck_ or did she scuttle herself? 😜
      On a serious note, eyewitnesses are often very unreliable. This has been demonstrated time and time again, especially with the explosion in the everyday use of recording devices.
      In any case, I'm not sure it matters. The _Soryu_ and her aircraft were put out of action immediately and permanently by the three to five bombs she received.

  • @etiennenobel5028
    @etiennenobel5028 Год назад +2

    Let me get this straight; you mean the Japanese condemned to death 700 men of their own to free their destroyers for action ?

    • @AS-gv2es
      @AS-gv2es 11 месяцев назад

      They were dead or almost dead at that moment. Evacuations were done before that

  • @jaydeister9305
    @jaydeister9305 Год назад +2

    LT Dick Best sank 2 carriers(single-handedly), not sure if Soryu was one of them.
    Battle of Midway
    "Although Akagi sustained only one direct hit (almost certainly dropped by Lieutenant Best),"
    "Simultaneously, Yorktown's VB-3, commanded by Lieutenant Max Leslie, went for Sōryū, scoring at least three hits and causing extensive damage. Gasoline ignited, creating an inferno, while stacked bombs and ammunition detonated.[120] VT-3 targeted Hiryū, which was hemmed in by Sōryū, Kaga, and Akagi, but achieved no hits.[123]"
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

    • @shawnc1016
      @shawnc1016 Год назад

      Best was the only one who hit two carriers that day but he didn't single-handedly sink both.

    • @mikespangler98
      @mikespangler98 Год назад +2

      Best got the Akagi almost single handedly and was one of several to hit Hiryu later.

    • @jaydeister9305
      @jaydeister9305 Год назад

    • @g.t.richardson6311
      @g.t.richardson6311 Год назад +1

      @@shawnc1016 correct not single-handedly, and NOT the only one with hits on two carriers ,,, also
      Norman Kleiss ,,, who also put a bomb on mikuma

    • @g.t.richardson6311
      @g.t.richardson6311 Год назад +1

      @@shawnc1016 not correct,
      Norman Kleiss hit kaga and Hiryu and mikuma as well on the 6th or 7th

  • @moistmike4150
    @moistmike4150 Год назад

    Got what they deserved.

  • @alexius23
    @alexius23 Год назад

    🇯🇵🇯🇵🇯🇵🧙🏻‍♂

  • @petebiddle7900
    @petebiddle7900 Год назад

    Very well done.

  • @MGB-learning
    @MGB-learning Год назад

    Great video