IJN Shokaku: taking a few bombs

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  • Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024

Комментарии • 94

  • @centralcrossing4732
    @centralcrossing4732  10 месяцев назад +33

    A few notes:
    This video does not cover the battle, it focuses on Shōkaku's actions.
    All photos showing the damage are of Shōkaku at Truk on 28 October, 1942, I do not show any of Zuiho.
    No.6 and 8 12.7cm guns were the mounts on the after port side.
    There is a possibility that Shokaku was hit by 1,000 pound bombs or a mix of 1,000 and 500 pound bombs. Sources vary on sizes.

    • @MrTScolaro
      @MrTScolaro 10 месяцев назад +4

      Could you post the pictures of the damage to Zuhio? I have not seen them, and it would be interesting to see what damage she incurred.

    • @jonathantabor2088
      @jonathantabor2088 10 месяцев назад

      Thank you much for your work with this video. I appreciate what you're doing.

    • @Takomi_chan2
      @Takomi_chan2 10 месяцев назад

      i recommend a yt cg animated 27 min long about the santa cruz battle. the cg was made in 2008 but is incredible good

    • @user-hp5bc5cy2l
      @user-hp5bc5cy2l 10 месяцев назад +1

      Shokaku and Zuikaku are both examples of the fact that properly trained damage control teams, even in a bad design (fuel tanks integral to hull) can keep a Japanese carrier from going all zippo (like Taiho, Shinano, and several others...)

    • @michaelfranklin4276
      @michaelfranklin4276 2 месяца назад

      If the new TBF Avengers and their crews had worked up to an efficient force, the outcome might've been way different. All surviving TBDs had been taken out of front line service on USS Ranger by September '42. The new TBF s could only claim Ryujo and Hiei that year as capitol ship victories. If American aviators even had a half way decent torpedo that year, the lowly TBD Devastator could've basked in glory. No one seems to remember their brilliant overkill victory at Coral Sea on Shoho.

  • @thomaskositzki9424
    @thomaskositzki9424 10 месяцев назад +44

    WW2 nerd with 30 years of experience here - very cool video, showing the Japanese side for a change! 🙂
    Also an example of successful damage control on behalf of the Japanese.

    • @Takomi_chan2
      @Takomi_chan2 10 месяцев назад +1

      yup, she got hit at coral sea and now santa cruz.

    • @roykliffen9674
      @roykliffen9674 10 месяцев назад +1

      I'm amazed these photos still exist. It seems that around the surrender of Japan they destroyed much military documents to prevent the Americans getting their hands on them. I can imagine this also hinders reconstruction of events as seen by the Japanese.

  • @petesheppard1709
    @petesheppard1709 10 месяцев назад +24

    Thanks! As my father was wounded aboard ENTERPRISE at Santa Cruz, I have always been interested in the battle. It is enlightening to see a bit of the Japanese side.

    • @tommulvihill6814
      @tommulvihill6814 10 месяцев назад +3

      God bless your father you and your family thank you very much for his service! The crew of the Enterprise was unparalleled in World War II for their accomplishments and bravery

    • @petesheppard1709
      @petesheppard1709 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@tommulvihill6814 Thanks. He passed in '94; I think that was when his war finally ended. Still, he did a pretty good job raising me and my two sisters.

  • @Backwardlooking
    @Backwardlooking 10 месяцев назад +13

    Remember making a model of her in the 60’s. 👍🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

  • @Napoleon1815-l8c
    @Napoleon1815-l8c 10 месяцев назад +25

    Shokaku was the Japanese equivalent of Enterprise. As a WW2 buff for nearly 15 years, I did not realize she was damaged this heavily at Santa Cruz.

    • @MrEd-qg8td
      @MrEd-qg8td 10 месяцев назад +7

      Shokaku was a tough ship.

    • @gmnotyet
      @gmnotyet 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@MrEd-qg8td The first of her class.

    • @yoseipilot
      @yoseipilot 10 месяцев назад +5

      I think Shokaku’s is an equivalent of Essex’s, even Yorktown’s is also equally to Unryu’s/Hiryu.

    • @gmnotyet
      @gmnotyet 10 месяцев назад +1

      Shokaku was an improved Hiryu, which was an improved Soryu.

    • @จักษ์นาถะพินธุ
      @จักษ์นาถะพินธุ 9 месяцев назад

      Shokaku was better than Enterprise/Yorktown/Hornet.
      Shokaku/Zuikaku were the best aircraft carrier in the world ( 1942 ).

  • @Warmaker01
    @Warmaker01 10 месяцев назад +6

    This fight in October 1942 was the Battle of Santa Cruz Islands, part of the overall campaign for Guadalcanal. Zuikaku & Shokaku squared off against Enterprise & Hornet. This late in 1942, the Japanese knew the US Navy were going to get more aircraft carriers: The Essex-class. Essex herself would commission in December 1942. She had several sisters that would start appearing in the first half of 1943.
    The Imperial Japanese Navy fought this battle expecting a lot. They *NEEDED* to sink both Enterprise and Hornet to maintain Pacific aircraft carrier numbers with the US Navy for several months. If they took out Enterprise & Hornet, there was still Saratoga that was coming off repairs. Essex would not arrive in the Pacific until around February 1943. For a period of several months the Japanese would have superiority in carriers. Even if Essex arrived, it would have still been 2 American Carriers (Essex + Saratoga). But the Japanese were on a timer and the navy knew it.
    For the 1st half of 1943, 3 more Essex-class would commission (Yorktown, Lexington, Bunker Hill. The USN quickly reused names of ships sunk in the war).
    For the 2nd half of 1943, 3 more would commission (Hornet, Wasp, Intrepid).
    Consider it would take a few months from commissioning for the crews to be trained up for overseas deployment. 1944 would see a flood of new Essex-class that would break the back of the Japanese military in the Pacific.
    The commander of the Japanese fleet for Santa Cruz Islands was Nagumo and the expectation to sink both Enterprise & Hornet was a tall order. The Japanese actually did sink Hornet and Enterprise was badly mauled but survived. So they were close. Nagumo actually won this battle but was still relieved of command, never having a seagoing command for the rest of his life (he died in a shore command at Saipan in 1944). He won but he didn't win hard enough.
    The cost of this battle however was severe as the Japanese lost a huge amount of their aircrew and aircraft. Remember that these guys were their experienced early war and pre-war veterans. Quality aviators you can't easily replace. Not helped by the fact that pre-war IJN aircrew training programs were set to a high standard where the number of new pilots they were getting were quite small.
    When the Battle of Santa Cruz Islands was over, Zuikaku & Shokaku were on their way back home to Japan. One of the important things they did that is often forgotten was that they disembarked what remained of their air groups so that they were based at Rabaul. Rabaul was THE main base of the Japanese in the South Pacific. There was a huge navy and army garrison there and it had facilities to base a lot of ships for the navy. It had airfields, too. But anyways, with Zuikaku & Shokaku leaving their air groups there, it was these guys that would fight the grueling, long air campaign over Guadalcanal. Months of combat air operations took their toll on planes and pilots.
    By the time Shokaku was repaired in 1943, she was paired up with her sister Zuikaku again. But there was a problem. Their air groups were dead in the South Pacific. For 1943 the Imperial Japanese Navy's aircraft carriers weren't fighting in the Pacific because of their aircrew losses in 1942. They'd spend 1943 quickly training up a new pilots to replace their losses. But the experience was no longer there. Their inexperience showed when the IJN amassed their new carriers and fought the US Navy again in their next Carrier Duel at the Battle of the Philippine Sea, a.k.a. "The Marianas Turkey Shoot." US Navy fighter pilots massacred their inexperienced Imperial Japanese Navy counterparts. The IJN's aircrew losses would be so severe from this that for the remainder of the war, what remained of their carriers were a hollow threat: They had no carrier qualified air groups to give them anymore. Japan would actually commission 3 Carriers in mid-1944 and later from the Unryu-class. But none of these 3 new Carriers ever had an operational air group of their own.
    Last bit: After Santa Cruz Islands with Saratoga coming off repairs, Hornet being sunk, and Enterprise entering repairs, the USN was down to 1 operational carrier in the Pacific. They expected Shokaku to return again looking for trouble alongside her sister, Zuikaku. The United States asked the British if they could loan a carrier for them to use in the Pacific in anticipation of this. The British obliged and the Royal Navy sent HMS Victorious. She worked alongside Saratoga. You can look up HMS Victorious' time as "USS Robin." The US even went through the effort of painting her up with US navy style paint jobs to deceive the Japanese. They even painted flight deck elevator markings like American ones to catch the eye of Japanese pilots so they'd try to aim for that... It was the strongest part of the carrier's armored flight deck. I forget exactly which, but the USN even swapped their air groups around. British pilots on Saratoga, Americans on Victorious. They had them specialized with one focused on fighters and the other with striking with bombers.
    But that 1943 Carrier Duel that the United States expected never happened. Because as I mentioned already, Shokaku was repaired but the navy had no air groups to give their carriers.

    • @crisespinoza1979
      @crisespinoza1979 9 месяцев назад

      Didn't know all that. Especially about HMS Victorious. Thanks for the info.

  • @Trojan0304
    @Trojan0304 10 месяцев назад +8

    Thanks for photos of battle damage

  • @MrEd-qg8td
    @MrEd-qg8td 10 месяцев назад +7

    seems like every time the Shokaku and Enterprise fought each other it was like a heavy weight boxing match. Remember that in this battle the Enterprise took 3 bomb hits. Great info shame the US lost the Hornet.

  • @Karen-m3i
    @Karen-m3i 10 месяцев назад +7

    Excellent commentary, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I am very fascinated with all the ships that participated in the early battles in the Pacific. Guadalajanelle Santa Cruz island's coral sea midway fascinating battles. When both navy's what America bouncing back in Japan still had an edge that if they could have exploded, it could have possibly turned the war in the Pacific. All good stuff.

  • @frankdesantis8078
    @frankdesantis8078 10 месяцев назад +3

    Warmaker, you have really done your research. Fascinating accounts. So much pressure on each combatant’s shipyards and repair facilities plus their naval aviator training commands.
    I forget that immediately into the war both sides went at each other offensively with little hesitation. So much bravery in each Navy.
    I never heard of the HMS Victorious engagement.
    Fascinating response you prepared.
    Thanks

  • @Tony-pk6ql
    @Tony-pk6ql 10 месяцев назад +5

    Great video- nice selection of photos.

  • @davidvonkettering204
    @davidvonkettering204 10 месяцев назад +6

    ALWAYS get excited when I see you have posted another video. NEVER disappointed. TH
    hanks so much for brightening my day with Carnage!!
    Love,
    David

  • @BarrieHughes
    @BarrieHughes 10 месяцев назад +3

    Thanks for the interesting story.

  • @jiyushugi1085
    @jiyushugi1085 10 месяцев назад +5

    Good job! A few minor suggestions: Kure is pronounced ku-re, Yokosuka is pronounced yo-koska.
    If you'd like to read a Japanese torpedo-bomber pilot's account of the war - including his roles in the PH, Midway and Wake attacks - search for 'The Miraculous Torpedo Squadron' the autobiography of Juzo Mori. There is much information therein that isn't in the many English accounts of these battles.

  • @73Trident
    @73Trident 10 месяцев назад +2

    You are doing a great job these videos. Keep up the good work. I always enjoy them.

  • @johnquintana7276
    @johnquintana7276 10 месяцев назад +2

    Awesome brother that's what I needed

  • @manilajohn0182
    @manilajohn0182 10 месяцев назад +5

    Well done video, as usual...

  • @allgood6760
    @allgood6760 Месяц назад

    Thanks from down under👍🇳🇿

  • @t.j.payeur5331
    @t.j.payeur5331 10 месяцев назад +2

    This was great, thanks.

  • @aldenconsolver3428
    @aldenconsolver3428 10 месяцев назад +1

    Appreciate the post action diagram of the hits on Shokaku.

  • @christophersnyder1532
    @christophersnyder1532 10 месяцев назад

    Great as usual, always looking forward to each of your videos you make.
    Take care, and all the best.

  • @TyrannoJoris_Rex
    @TyrannoJoris_Rex 10 месяцев назад +7

    Did Junyo not pick up any extra aircraft from the other strike groups?

  • @takashitamagawa5881
    @takashitamagawa5881 10 месяцев назад +4

    Early U.S. accounts of the Battle of Santa Cruz credit HORNET's dive bombers with scoring as many as nine hits on SHOKAKU. Clearly an exaggeration. Lieutenant James Vose who led the HORNET squadron after his commander Gus Widhelm was shot down claimed four definite direct hits.

  • @dmflynn962
    @dmflynn962 10 месяцев назад +2

    Thank you for the video. It was very straight forward and interesting. What improvements to damage control equipment were made after Midway? The fact that the planes were not on the ship and armed probably helped the most.

  • @keithlewis9106
    @keithlewis9106 10 месяцев назад +1

    Very good video, I liked photos and time line

  • @jamessorley9155
    @jamessorley9155 5 месяцев назад

    Very interesting. Good photos.

  • @markpaul-ym5wg
    @markpaul-ym5wg 10 месяцев назад

    Splendid video brother.Keep em rollin

  • @johnquintana7276
    @johnquintana7276 10 месяцев назад

    Awesome brother
    Thank you !!!!!

  • @The_Modeling_Underdog
    @The_Modeling_Underdog 10 месяцев назад

    Great little video on the timetable of events and damage sustained by Shokaku, Crosser.
    For once, IJN Shinigami... I mean Shigure was not in the area.

  • @johnsouth3912
    @johnsouth3912 10 месяцев назад +1

    Well done, an excellent video!

  • @ronalddesiderio7625
    @ronalddesiderio7625 9 месяцев назад

    This is new for a history nut 🥜
    Finally a different Gender with interest in how we got were we are today 👍🏾

  • @aztec0112
    @aztec0112 10 месяцев назад +2

    There is something uniquely sinister and utilitarian about the Shokaku and her sister Zuikaku

  • @papajohnloki
    @papajohnloki 10 месяцев назад +1

    very good. Zuikaku is my favorite IJN vessel (Shokaku second). read the disclaimer- didn't matter. Keep up the good work

  • @George_M_
    @George_M_ 10 месяцев назад +8

    Best IJN damage control performance of the war?

    • @scootergeorge7089
      @scootergeorge7089 10 месяцев назад +6

      Perhaps. But, in a losing effort, the damage control parties aboard super battleship Musashi managed to keep the ship afloat till hit by approximately 20 torpedoes and a similar number of 1,000 pound bombs.

    • @VersusARCH
      @VersusARCH 10 месяцев назад +3

      IJN Kumano.

    • @mbryson2899
      @mbryson2899 10 месяцев назад +1

      ​@@VersusARCHThat was my first thought, too.

    • @petemiksich5760
      @petemiksich5760 10 месяцев назад

      The best was when damage control saved Shokaku at Coral Sea. The ship was tore up pretty good. The USA chased her almost all the way back to Japan, but couldn't catch her.

  • @JohnSmith-oh9ux
    @JohnSmith-oh9ux 10 месяцев назад +3

    Thumbs up!

  • @johnsouto5221
    @johnsouto5221 10 месяцев назад +2

    The Shokaku had some very hard luck during her combat career.

  • @jamesbohlman4297
    @jamesbohlman4297 10 месяцев назад +2

    The four carriers sunk at Midway had none of the benefits of design that Sho and Zue did.

    • @MarkYeung1
      @MarkYeung1 4 месяца назад

      And 3 of them were bombed at the worst possible time.

  • @samson9535
    @samson9535 10 месяцев назад +3

    We lost the Hornet in this battle.

  • @duanerice-mason2115
    @duanerice-mason2115 10 месяцев назад

    EXCELLENT ANALYSIS

  • @AFluffyBunny4
    @AFluffyBunny4 Месяц назад

    Amazing pictures of the damage! Most I've never seen before. Where did you find them?

  • @user-hp5bc5cy2l
    @user-hp5bc5cy2l 10 месяцев назад

    Leadership lessons: Skipper obviously trusted his sailors, sensibly ordered deck crew to aid hanger, e.g. Looks like it wasnt merely effective training but also good leadership which saved Shokaku.

  • @coinneachmacraibeart7891
    @coinneachmacraibeart7891 Месяц назад

    Makes you wonder about the ships lost at Midway and whether they could have been saved

  • @briandana7227
    @briandana7227 10 месяцев назад

    Excellent video!

  • @sabrecatsmiladon7380
    @sabrecatsmiladon7380 10 месяцев назад

    Very informative!!

  • @jamesmordovancey517
    @jamesmordovancey517 10 месяцев назад +3

    Isn't it curious that all four bomb hits were on the stern, so close together? Especially since I assume that they came from four separate planes?

    • @frankguz55
      @frankguz55 10 месяцев назад

      It is likely that some parameters used in the bomb release calculations (e.g.: estimated ship speed) were not correct, so that all the bombs were affected by the same calculation error.
      Most likely, all the missed bombs fell further astern.

  • @megadavis5377
    @megadavis5377 10 месяцев назад

    Very interesting. And very well done. Thanks.

  • @panic_2001
    @panic_2001 10 месяцев назад +2

    10 dive bombers land 4 hits - that’s a top rate!
    Where in the world were the Zeros for defense, thanks to radar the Japanese knew the Americans were coming?

  • @ThomasWIck-ms5tj
    @ThomasWIck-ms5tj 10 месяцев назад

    Considering the lack of Japanese carriers at this time and the number of US carriers about to enter the War this damage to Shokaku was as good as a sinking.

  • @williamashbless7904
    @williamashbless7904 10 месяцев назад

    Short, concise and really informative.
    How prevalent was the use of 500 lb bombs for dive bombers? It seems like a heavier 1,000 lb munition would have penetrated deeper and causing more catastrophic damage.

    • @josephdelp87
      @josephdelp87 9 месяцев назад

      A formula was developed for which bombs to use. Range of travel, fuel usage to get there with load carried.

  • @reinharthertz2526
    @reinharthertz2526 10 месяцев назад

    Good job on the narrative ... maybe slow it down a little?? But unlike so many other "historians" ... you pronounced all the Japanese names/words correctly. BZ !! (that's USN parlance for "Well Done")

  • @marvinacklin792
    @marvinacklin792 10 месяцев назад +2

    Like to hear the other sides story

  • @MrTScolaro
    @MrTScolaro 10 месяцев назад +3

    I thought standard practice was for American SBDs to be armed with 1000 pound bombs. I have 2 questions. 1) are you sure they were 500 pound bombs and 2) if so, do you have any idea why they were not 1000 pound weapons?

    • @danielebrparish4271
      @danielebrparish4271 10 месяцев назад +8

      I think they were flying at their furtherest range. Bigger bombs require more fuel and decrease the speed of the plane.

    • @crossbow42
      @crossbow42 10 месяцев назад +6

      Every other account I've read of this bombing says they were, in fact, 1000 pounders. Standard American practice was for the Bombing squadron to go out with 1000 pounders, and the Scounting squadron to go out with 500 pounders. Once you've spotted an enemy carrier, it's critical to get your strike off before the enemy's arrives, so I kinda doubt they'd delay launch to replace the bombs. The only case where they might do so would be if the enemy is so far away that planes loaded with 1000's wouldn't have enough gas to return to their ship.

    • @centralcrossing4732
      @centralcrossing4732  10 месяцев назад +8

      The USN did keep both sizes available for a variety of reasons, the commenters before me listed some of the points. Depending on sources, the size of the bombs are different. According to after action reports from the US carriers, 500 pound bombs hit a Shokaku class carrier. I'll admit that the report could be incorrect, it could have been 1,000s or a mix of both. Unfortunately, the Japanese damage analysis didn't pinpoint a bomb size. I believe they couldn't due to the collapse of the entire area due to the bombs clustering in one spot.
      I'll add to my pinned comment that there could have been 1,000 pound bombs dropped on the Shokaku to hold up all possible sources available.
      Thanks for commenting.

    • @Happy11807
      @Happy11807 10 месяцев назад +3

      I THOUGHT THEY WERE SCOUT BOMBERS,ON SCOUTING MISSIONS THEY CARRIED THE 500 lb. Rather than the 1000, for fuel consumption!

    • @MrTScolaro
      @MrTScolaro 10 месяцев назад +1

      @chargrams6931 No, they were SBDs on a bombing mission. Strong and Irvine, who hot Zuhio, were SBDs on a scouting mission and thus hit Zuhio with 500-pound bombs.

  • @Sebastian-lk9xz
    @Sebastian-lk9xz 10 месяцев назад

    Interesting compilation of the strike waves. Only 4 Fighters to escort 20 Bombers? Was that usual?

  • @derekpierkowski7641
    @derekpierkowski7641 10 месяцев назад

    👍👍👍👍👍👍

  • @robbysun3137
    @robbysun3137 10 месяцев назад

    Shokaku’s radar had detected the American planes one hour before the attack happened. Did Zuikaku launch its airplanes to intercept the American planes? If not, why?

  • @kimrnhof107
    @kimrnhof107 10 месяцев назад

    cool

  • @Caktusdud.
    @Caktusdud. 10 месяцев назад +1

    How come the damage she took put her out of action for do long?

    • @thomaskositzki9424
      @thomaskositzki9424 10 месяцев назад +6

      Didn't you look at the photos?
      Significant parts of her aft superstructure had to be rebuild. Any steel that takes heat damage needs to be completely replaced as it loses it's strenght.

    • @Caktusdud.
      @Caktusdud. 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@thomaskositzki9424 I did, but other carriers from other countries didn't take as long and some took more damage than her. Ships like Illustrious and Yorktown for example.

    • @allanfifield8256
      @allanfifield8256 10 месяцев назад

      @@Caktusdud. Perhaps Japan had fewer industrial resources available.

    • @williamkoppos7039
      @williamkoppos7039 10 месяцев назад

      Yorktown took ONE bomb. The damage repair was very temporary. Illustrious came back here to the States, was out for a year or more IIRC.@@Caktusdud.

  • @FairwayJack
    @FairwayJack 7 месяцев назад

    like

  • @terry9325
    @terry9325 9 месяцев назад

    I never knew the Japanese had radar at that time in the war ,especially one that could spot aircraft 70 miles away .