Great reaction, but money does exist and it was a retcon that first appeared in this film, Star Trek IV, and it is a total contradiction to everything that came before this and everything that will come after. Next Generation and Voyager try hard to reinforce the no money in the Federation concept, but Deep Space Nine totally obliterates it and eventually the producers settle on “Gold-Pressed Latinum” as the currency of the known Universe. Kirk talked about Credits as Federation money in the first Harry Mudd episode, McCoy tells the space alien in the bar that he’s got “money” when trying to hire a ship in Star Trek III and Scotty says he just bought a boat in the beginning of Star Trek VI to name just a few examples of the contradiction. So the Star Trek producers have no clue what money actually is which is hilarious. Money exists to easily facilitate trade, otherwise one has to continually barter and trade items to aquire things people want. There’s an episode of Deep Space Nine where they clearly demonstrate how stupid it is to have NO MONEY exist when Jake Sisko tries to acquire ancient baseball memorabilia for his dad, Captain Sisko. So it makes no sense to not have money, the concept of it is only something a low IQ person would think is great becuase they don’t understand why it exists in the first place.
Really LOVE all of your comments and observations here about all the movies. I'm so glad you're watching everything in release order too. It is the closest replication to the experience we all in my generation had growing up watching Trek. Landru has deemed you both 'of the body' lol.
That was a fun series wrap up discussion. Thank you so much. I had forgotten how controversial it all was at the time. Comedy was something Nimoy had been exploring directing and "3 Men and A Baby" with Tom Selleck, Ted Danson and Steve Guttenberg of Nimoy's came out the following year. There are 2 discussions you should see at some point - "Star Trek: The Captain's Summit" on Nathan Travis channel with TOS Shatner, Nimoy and TNG Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes interviewed by Whoopie Goldberg. The other is an interview Nichelle Nichols did for The Neutral Zone about MLK convincing her to stay and how Shatner insisted on doing the interracial kiss instead of Spock whom they always used to show the effects and target of prejudice instead of any of their human diverse cast members. Again this whole presentation of yours has been terrific.
I'm glad you guys found something you enjoyed in each movie along the way. For me, #6 is the true send-off for these characters (and also a very solid movie on it's own). Very excited to see you start TNG. I know it'll be rough going for a while, but like with the movies, each show is it's own thing and once TNG found it's voice, nothing else did it better.
You guys are just great. Not only for the content and tone of your reactions, but also your approach. The side bits you do and your inclusion of subscriber’s comments add entertainment value to the mix.
It’s one of the fun things about the TOS movies: they’re all so different. They really feel like their own little miniseries in the Star Trek tradition.
My impression is that Sarek was loved by TOS fans, as was the Spock's family back story. Plus Mark Leonard was a great Vulcan and audiences loved Vulcan stuff, so it is not surprising that he was asked to reprise his role as Sarek in the Star Trek movies
Lenard was an exceptional actor. The dialogue Sarek said to Spock was gushing pride for a Vulcan. My fav is still the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror.
Mark Lenard is the only actor that played a Vulcan, a Romulan, and a Klingon in different TOS movies. I believe he was the Klingon commander in the first movie that has his ships destroyed in the opening scenes.
Mark Leonard liked his roles on Trek and even went to some fan conventions. I saw him at one and he was a pretty cool dude. There was also a running joke about asking him the meaning of life.
Strap in for a rough 26 episodes! I watched TNG during it's initial run and laughed at how quaint TOS felt seeing it on VHS. Now TNG is older than TOS was at the time and man the first season really feels like it. I actually think TOS has aged better in 2023 than season 1 of TNG.
Season 2 is also rough to say the least. But neither season is without their diamonds in the rough. I have a feeling that these guys will enjoy many parts of early TNG, given that they've found things to like in the typically dislikes episodes/movies.
I just knew you were going to love all four. I was a bit worried about IV since it was obvious that it wasn't what you expected. But I'm glad you still enjoyed it and had so many laughs with it. And it's still hilarious that each of your favorites is an odd numbered one 😂
Star Trek IV is my favorite of the TOS films. It is a return to the form of the show after two decidedly darker films. TOS could be dark, but it was often light-hearted and fun with great character moments, and that's what this was. And like the episodic show, these films are different from each other, even with connected storylines. I wish the new film did this.
A lot of people talk about how great Roddenberry was, but I think the success of these 3 movies is largely due to producer Harve Bennett. He knew how to make sci-fi stories that appeal to general audiences and not only trekkies. I know several people who weren’t trek mega fans that enjoyed the 3 films mainly because of the humour and the characters. He was a storyteller that knew that characters and writing were key and you could see that in his tv shows (six million dollar man, bionic woman) where sci-fi elements were used yet there were also characters like Oscar, Rudy, Jaime and Steve and Steve’s parents that people could relate to and the stories weren’t just slathered in technobabble like TNG. Probably why I’m not a big fan of TNG and not just the first two seasons, but the entire run. I much prefer ds9 Very interested to see what you think of tng😊
11:28 Yhere was also a scene that was written for Star Trek IV that was never filmed that explained why Saavik stayed on Vulcan, instead of returning to Earth with Kirk and company. That reason being that Saavik was pregnant with Spock's child
Spock's father (Mark Lenard) used to play the mayor of Seattle in the series "Here Come The Brides" (1968). It was a fun series and the theme hit the pop charts.
If you want an alternate universe version of the "voyage home" between the third and fourth movies, you can check out the stories DC Comics published between those movies when no one knew what was happening next. The crew make lots of stops and gets into lots of adventures. I love them!
I love your comparison to a "side quest" - very apt! I do feel like, they come home to Earth, Spock comes home to himself and his crew-fam, Kirk comes home to "Captain" and they all come home to The Enterprise...so it works that way - but the whale plot is a side quest, definitely!
The Undiscovered Country is my favourite Star Trek, and even in my favourite 30 films. I'm also looking forward to that reaction, but i think that will be a long wait lol.
They absolutely have money in Star Trek. Every series has references to it if not outright saying it. Specifically, Earth’s economy no longer uses money because Gene figured that by then that tech would render it near-useless. But other planets have their own way of doing things, and the Federation uses currency (usually referred to as “credits”).
Thanks. Your discovering TOS and going through it was amazing with the memories it brought back. Star Trek and M.A.S.H. were the 2 series that lived on in tv reruns for an amazingly long time and both deserved it.
Chekov was also electrocuted in TMP when the systems overloaded. He wasn't injured in Search for Spock but did have a top 3 character arch by being the 3rd officer to initiate the Enterprise self-destruct sequence.
I don't know whoever said this was a trilogy, but it wasn't planned that way at all. Only later did people start saying this. As a lifelong Trek fan, I'm only starting to hear this from people. I guess it kind of is? Great review guys!
@MrDeathpilot Yes, but they weren't written as a trilogy at all. They just happen to overlap slightly. Not an intentional trilogy. It's a marketing gimmick & rightly so. Why not? I see they are now naming it the “Genesis Trilogy”.
If you ever have time to read, I recommend the books The Making of Star Trek, and The World of Star Trek. Both have lots of behind the scenes secrets and stories, including how the actors used to sometimes play jokes on each other, etc.
Man i really like this channel, since Star Trek is the only thing i love that i have no one to talk to, this channel fulfil this void. I have a lot of Star Wars fans friends, Rpg too, Twin Peaks, Lotr, Video Games, etc... but not a lot of people had tome to watch all of ST, so it is indeed a blessing to know you are going to sit through the tv shows and I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on them. For now I'll give mine: I watched all the movies when i was a kid and loved the characters. Since I am a fucking nerd i went and search the best episodes of tos and watched them... Also, i used to see some of TNG on tv. But when Picard tv show came and i thought the 1 season was the worst star trek media I've ever seen i had a need to rewatch the movies and while rewatching i decided to binge all of TOS and TNG (and later Ds9). So during the pandemic i began the journey through TOS. TOS - it was lovely to see the original crew again and finally seeing the whole show it was waaaaay better than i remembered! This is definitely the crew that oozes more nostalgia and charisma. ST TAS - it was the last one I've watched, and i loved it. ST I TMP - the sci fi one, still finding the steps of st movies. A little boring but still good. ST II WoK- the classic one. Most memorable and the one that set the bar to the next ones. ST III SFS - A good adventure with a heartwarming comeback. ST IV TVH - the funny and most easy to watch. Love this movie. ST V TFF - the weird one 😂 i dont like very much, but it still fun. ST VI TUC - The political one, i think it is the best one, a GREAT ending to TOS crew. Truly incredible. TNG- Wow, it was awesome to watch the whole series in 2021. In my whole life i loved Picard, Data, Word and the rest. But only from the movies and barely 12 episodes that i watchet. Now i was watching 7 seasons!!! And whata ride it was. Definitely a more consistent show and i has some of the best stuff I've ever seen on tv. I was depressed when i reached the end 😂. ST VII Gen. - i hated this movie when i was a kid (you guys now why). Now i love it! Still have some flaws, but i think it tells a great story. ST VIII FC - Such a good movie! Finally the TNG crew seems to fit the big screen. ST IX Ins. - A little uninspired, but it looks like a reasonable good thg episode extended, so... Ok i guess. ST X Ne. - Another that i used to hate! I actually enjoyed to rewatch, but it is indeed a movie with more wrongs than rights. And unfortunately the plot is bad😢 (and I don't liked that it erased the TNG finale, made it a alternative reality) DS9 - THE FIRST ONE I DIDN'T NOW ANYTHING ABOUT! And man... What a surprise! It has a fucking great story line, I thin it is the best star trek, i love all these 3 shows alike. But the surprise of a good star trek that i didn't knew my whole life was exciting. I never cried in any ST (almost on TNG Finale), but on DS9 i cried 4 fucking times! It is a masterpiece!!!! Odo, Sisko, Dax, Quark, Garak, Weyoun, Dukat, Bashir, O'Brien and Kira are sooooooooo good! They have such development during these episodes taht no other characters have in the whole of Star Trek. Voyager- gotta admit, i didn't have the patience to watch it whole... Only the best episodes per season, almost like i did when i was a young Padawan (hehe wrong franchise). I thought it is a step back after DS9. And unfortunately the characters, although good, don't have a good arc development. Unfortunately i think it is bad and i doesn't use the shows premise well. Enterprise - never watched 😢 Picard - First season is disgusting, second season is fine, thirs season should be watching and only this season should be watched, skip those two positronic aberrations 😂😂😂 ST Lower Deck - man love this show, i thought i wouldn't but i do. I really don't like de JJ Abrams movies, put im whiling do watch Discovery and I think i would love this alternative new reality that is Strange New Worlds! I beg for forgiveness if there is any mistake, English is not my mother tongue and my universal translator was broken in the Battle of Wolf 359 and i think this new one that i bought from a ferengi is a fake! 😂
About the yellow pages building - I was at an event where George Takei spoke. He was often called "Take 1" because he rarely needed more than one take. That building is a bar. They rehearsed the scene 3 times, and each time he looked in that window, a lady at the bar smiled at him. When they went to film, she flashed him, and he cracked up! Wrecked the scene, and had Nemoy asking him "What the hell, George?" That was about 30 years ago, and hearing him speak and getting to meet and recieve an autograph remains a favorite memory.
The no money thing was a big deal to Roddenberry that the rest of the producers had to live with. They get into it a bit more in TNG, but really with replicators they're trying to suggest a post-scarcity society. As for the environmental message, this was made when movie makers realized their primary job was to entertain, and that a message was fine to fit in so long as it didn't detract from that goal. I've never warmed up to TNG, much favoring DS9. Perhaps you'll feel differently. Best of luck and thank you for trip back through ST memories.
Their uniforms were inspired by the Canadian Mounties. Side note: I would've been curious to see a deleted scene in ST2 where Sarek & Amanda are informed about Spock's death. Amanda's reaction and Sarek's mixed anger and logic towards Kirk as expressed in ST3.
I’d noticed that before that Chekov is always the one to get beat up - the episode with the space hippies when he got burned by the acidic plants, Specter of the Gun, V’ger zapping his hand, Khan putting space bugs in his ear, bonking his head here.
At the time there was no expectation for a trilogy conclusion, just for a Star Trek movie. This one is like the more comic episodes, and I love it for that! It also has a score that sounds like Christmas bells!
I was a little girl who loved watching the TOS reruns because the show was canceled before I was born. The first time I attended a Star Trek Convention it was really inexpensive, not commercialized & my oldest brother drove my cousin & me to it, where we got to see Mark Leonard really close to a stage with only about 50 people in the entire Convention. I was able to buy a ton of things for $15.00 I saved from my allowance. So much has changed and fan Conventions of all types are so huge. I find it so odd to have watched TWOK beginning as a young girl & now I'm the one with the reading glasses identifying with my own mortality when I watch that movie, much like Kirk in the movie.
I think my Fav. Character in this one is Gillian...mainly because she got to go Into the Future. I liked all the humor in this one as it was a nice change from the Previous movie. Also the last 10 minutes were great! 😀🖖
Of course, back in the day, the TV commercials for The Voyage Home made it clear that it had a lot of comedy and that the crew somehow winds up in 'present day' Earth; so, everyone went into it looking forward to that kind of movie. You guys were in a more unusual situation, being blind to the plot, to be surprised by the time travel element and more humorous tone. Anyway, I've been enjoying your reactions, both Star Trek and non-Trek stuff. Looking forward to your 'TNG' reactions.
Chekov's purposely playing stupid to try and throw off the Feds. He's the only person in STIII that didn't get a moment. It was nice for him to get something. . As far as the trilogy conversation, Star Trek IV is the movie where finally every one of the characters gets to get back to why we really love them. Kirk and crew all get back to what their good at and face a problem that would have been perfectly fit in the show. The Voyage Home is a personal voyage. The real end to the trilogy was Kirk's line in the shuttle. "My friends. We've come home."
Woah, I never understood the phone directory wall ad, but that totally explains why Sulu announces, "San Francisco -- I was born there" when they arrive. So weird what happens when stuff gets left on the cutting room floor.
I'd always took the "there's no money" to mean they didn't have 20th Century money. I mean, even in Back to the Future II, Doc Brown pulled out a suitcase with "period" money. I think, by TNG, they became a bit more post-capitalist since they can now replicate food and items. In TOS that had Federation Credits, remember in Touble with Tribbles they were using those. Maybe there is no physical money...like how we use credit and paypal/cash app.
It's interesting that you comment on the pattern of Chekov repeatedly almost dying. There's a book called "Redshirts" written by John Scalzi, which is obviously loosely inspired by Star Trek. It has a Chekov-like character whose purpose in the story is to be the "main character" who almost dies on missions to give the adventures a feeling of stakes.
Star Trek II - IV are quintessential Star Trek for me. We owned those three movies on VHS when I was a kid and I watched them so many times. They got my door into the door of fandom and TNG got me all in. I was so lucky to be a fan in the 90's. Enjoy the ride.
In TOS, there's a scene where Kirk blows off saving Spock for friendship reasons: Do you realize how much money Starfleet has invested in you? And Spock starts to say exactly how much. Multiple times Kirk tells crew mates they've earned their pay for the week or year. He talks about having to use the collected tribute to spend on retraining the culture of the planet in A Piece of the Action.
Yeah, and just last week I had a good laugh when my aunt tried to drive off with her cart in front of her horse. 🙃 That is to say, perhaps retroactively we can view those as wry ironic comments using archaic expressions orphaned from in-universe current society.
@@bustedsim you can see them that way... Retroactively. But at the time they aired, I'm sure they weren't just expressions. Recall that Spock knew how much money and was telling him.
“Money, I got,” McCoy told the Bem-looking alien in the the prior movie. I love this film, but this out-of-nowhere reveal that there was no money in Federation pissed me off when I was watching it in the theater in 1986-because it was in direct contradiction of decades of TOS canon in which money was referenced (i.e. Federation credits) multiple times. And unfortunately they continued to carry that forward-and it’s an absolute canon violation.
Understand that the producers of the Trek films never said that ST II, III, IV were a trilogy. That evolved over the years simply because those movies followed a chronology. They were never intended to be a true trilogy. Also if you think Shatner is funny in ST IV, find the film “Free Enterprise”, about two young struggling movie producers who meet their childhood idol, Shatner who plays himself, in a Hollywood book store. Hilarious and a must for all Trek fans, especially TOS.
I think those three Star Trek movies are a trilogy in the same way that the godfather series is a trilogy, but not in the same way that the Lord of the rings is a trilogy. A trilogy doesn't have to tell a single coherent story even if many do.
My thinking has been that "they don't have money" meant they don't have bills and coins which are traded around as a fiat currency. It's a future where all purchases are handled by credit cards and computer-tracked bank accounts. Many countries have been heading in that direction for awhile now.
Christine Chappell also had a line earlier on in the film (it was mentioned in TMP that she's a Doctor now). When the probe was attacking Earth, she said something like 'We need that power for medical '.
Right. There’s always been “money” in Star Trek. The “no money in the future” thing was specific to Earth and its new economy after newer tech virtually eliminated poverty.
Star Trek is supposed to be a utopia but a cashfree society is the dream of every authoritarian dictator like XI Jinping. I am glad that here in Germany cash is still king which guarantees more freedom. Here the tenor is that alone for data protection reasons the state should not be allowed to know everything about its citizens and where they are spending their money.
You should probably know in advance that many of the scripts written for The Next Generation were written for the Enterprise crew after The Motion Picture, with Captain Decker.
This is just my opinion but these uniforms are one of my favorites. And I like how they even though the colors for the divisions are different they are still there. Glad you've enjoyed the movies.
FYI, regarding a thrown-out back reveal at 11:00, I heard what was spoken by the Asian actors is Cantonese, not Japanese. I can speak Cantonese, so was kinda surprise about a possible backstory reveal. Hikara Sulu character is Japanese.
Plus they were in Chinatown, so having Japanese characters plopped in there is, dare I say, not logical. SF does have a Japantown neighborhood, over 3 miles west from Chinatown.
Mark Leonard even played an alien Ambassador outside of Star Trek. I don't remember the species name but in the TV show Buck Rogers he played an alien that was capable of removing his head.
If you ever watch the TV westerns from the 50's and 60's, you'll see that it's a veritable "Whose who" of Star Trek characters. They were all in westerns. Leonard Nimoy was once an Indian.
Oh, if you want an obscure Mark Leonard, Spock's Father, role and to be angry at something which never resolves, look up the 1985 limited TV series "Otherworld." He has a whole episode....and this series, sadly, never concluded, and I'll bet no one remembers it.
Great review guys. The amazing thing about TOS is how good it's quality is overall. Sure there are a handful of clunkers, but overall it's a great show.
Eddie Murphy was originally supposed to be the Whale biologist but he was filming Golden Child instead. He was a huge Trek fan and the biggest movie star at the time.
I'm glad you both enjoyed it even more after watching it again! I loved hearing what you had to say about all four films, how each gave something the others didn't and how satisfying that is. In the late 1960's, Mark Leonard starred in a show called "Here Come the Brides". His character, Aaron Stempel, is featured in the Star Trek TOS novel "Ismael", which is a crossover of both series.
One of my favorite of the novels -- and there are many little crossover moments hinted at in there from a lot of other shows and franchises. Lots of TV Westerns like Paladin and Bonanza, and lots of SF like Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica. I'd only twigged onto the Who references the first time I read it, but there are so many more.
If your intention is to watch Star Trek in chronological order, things are going to get a little more interesting. As you've mentioned, you still have two more movies with the TOS cast. Which happen concurrent with TNG. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine overlaps the lasts few seasons of TNG. Voyager overlaps the last few seasons of DS9.
As I did with TOS Season 3 and TAS, I would like to offer a spoiler-free general preview of TNG for new viewers. In the discussion at the end of your “Is There In Truth No Beauty?” reaction video, Josh said about the dinner-party scene in that episode, “It’s just the characters talking to each other… deep character stuff to make them more believable as like real people and not just fictional characters… That’s one of my favorite parts about Star Trek.” In your Season 3 review video, Josh added, “It’s like a five-minute scene of them just all talking about the plot but also about them as characters, building up these guest characters, and I’m like, ‘Give me more of that,’ you know. I don’t find that boring…” Now, I freely admit that it would be an exaggeration to describe TNG as a version of that dinner-party scene that is seven seasons long. TNG has kick-ass action sequences, creepy horror-tinged episodes, mind-bending sci-fi ideas, and almost as much sex as "The Golden Girls." However, it would not be *much* of an exaggeration to describe TNG as seven seasons of that dinner party. Even more than with TOS, the show’s most iconic moments are thoughtful conversations between characters, and its best episodes revolve around such scenes. To put it another way, if TOS is the Magic Kingdom, TNG is Epcot. For Xennials such as myself, if TOS is "Choose Your Own Adventure," TNG is "Time Machine." Like TOS and TAS, TNG is a fully episodic series by the modern standards of the streaming era: one can catch the episodes in any order in syndication and still follow what is going on. Nonetheless, TNG is much more serialized than TOS or TAS. There are multiple two-part episodes throughout the series’ run; there are also recurring characters and ongoing storylines that resurface from time to time. When you asked yourselves at the end of a TOS episode whether the show would revisit a particular character or storyline, the answer was usually no (with Harry Mudd as the major exception). When you ask yourselves the same question at the end of a TNG episode, the answer will often, although by no means always, be yes. As you already know, TNG Season 1, like TOS Season 3, is unpopular with fans. However, you have also already guessed that you will love Season 1, and I agree with this assessment: TNG Season 1 is genuinely excellent. I may feel this way due to nostalgia. I first started watching TOS and TNG in syndication sometime in 1990, when the first run of TNG had reached the early fourth season. Therefore, Seasons 1 and 2, as I encountered them in reruns, loomed far larger as part of the TNG mythos than they may have to viewers who discovered the series after all seven seasons were complete. However, Season 1 has other defenders as well. For example, the media critic L.I. Underhill, whose essays about Star Trek are available on the Eruditorum Press website, writes, “TNG Season 1 is better than Seasons 2, 3 and 4. Almost combined. It is also better than Season 5, though just by a couple episodes.” Underhill has very unusual opinions (they regard the importance of plot and character development as overrated; they love “The Alternative Factor” and dislike “The City on the Edge of Forever”), but I agree with them that TNG Season 1 is a thing of beauty. Also, while LeVar Burton once said about TNG, “Oh, don’t even go to the first season!” Jonathan Frakes commented near the end of TNG’s run, “I think we took greater chances then than we do now… Some of it misses, but some were great.” Viewers, of course, should not take either actor’s word for it, but should decide for themselves which statement is fact and which is fiction. In addition to its inherent quality, Season 1 will be your introduction to the characters and world of TNG, which I think you will find just as absorbing to explore for the first time as the world of Star Trek itself was in TOS Season 1. Gene Roddenberry intended TNG to be a fresh start for Star Trek, just as you have anticipated for each successive version of the franchise, and exploring this new and yet familiar universe will be an amazing journey.
Part of watching this now vs watching it as a kid then teen then adult over the 6 TOS films is we were so star trek starved. It was on every day in reruns and to get new trek with the cast was just so much candy. Then to view TMP as a kid was a disappoinment and now its such a great film that captures what we were missing. TWOk was just pure joy after TMP and has such fun rewatchability. And each film did go a different direction which is so fulfilling now after dozens of rewatches. Star trek is the gift that keeps giving and its so much fun!
Harry Mudd actor Roger C. Caramel died two weeks before the release of Star Trek IV The Voyage Home. I was shocked that he was only 54 years old in 1986 when he passed away. I am 54 years and I don’t look anywhere near that old. Roger C Carmel looks like he was already in his 50s back during the original series. 🖖🏼
You guys have said in both videos that this is the last movie before TNG. But you still have 2 movies left! V: The Final Frontier and VI: The Undiscovered Country. They may have both been made after TNG started, but they’re unrelated to it. I’d recommend you watch them both before moving on to TNG, say a proper goodbye to the TOS cast.
I enjoyed seeing your reaction. I love the Voyage Home. Saw it in the theater when it was first released. If you watch Kirk's subtle reaction in the restaurant scene when he has his first sip of beer you can see an appreciation for something from that time that is no longer available to him, a good beer.
the Voyage Home isn't intended to be about Earth as much as coming full circle. Back to the Enterprise, back to the crew, back with the Spock they knew and that kinda thing more than just a trip back to Earth. For Mudd, not sure that would have worked out.. The actor that played Mudd died just a few weeks before Voyage Home was released. I know he was still doing voice work but i dont think he had appeared on screen in person for years
The Next Generation the first season did have a Scottish Chief Engineer, but he wasn't a main character. But Paramount was getting lots a fanmail for him. In fact they started getting fanmail for stuff he did in episodes that hadn't even aired yet. They discovered he was sending in the fan letters trying to get his character to be more like a main character.. so they canned him.
Interesting that you were caught off guard by the comments, because i agree with you, i never considered it to be a trilogy, and the first time i even heard that many considered it to be a trilogy, was when i also saw some RUclips videos about it.
Like listening to you guys ramble on about these great films. I had the privilege of having a parents into it enough to take me to all the TOS films at their releases. My father took me (and eventually my kids) to conventions. Lost my father a few years back now and the Sarek stuff really hits the feels. Thanks for sharing. Look forward to what you have to say on 5 and six. Yeah 5 was considered a black sheep for a long time but modern Trek has really put a nice shine on all the stuff that came before at this point. 6 really felt like a solid conclusion to the whole TOS era and the Cold War era for the real world.
Growing up in the 70's and 80's I was just excited when a new Star Trek movie was announced. I never saw 2-4 as a trilogy. To me they were sequels or direct sequels.
Star Trek 3 & 4 did give the side characters way more to do which is how season 1 of TOS started out as before turning into the big 3. The first 2 movies had them first in their positions but that's it.
Your analyses of the Star Trek Shows and movies are marvelous and a highlight of my RUclips round-robin. I look forward to seeing your take on TNG. I saw the movies in the theaters back in the day (each on the first day they came out!), and the only one I was pretty sure was upcoming was ST 4. There were only rumors at the time, no internet of spoilers, but I remember reading somewhere that ST 4 would "include time travel". But, as with you, it completely subverted my expectations and was a surprise. Interestingly, the very first time I heard that sound from the alien craft, I said to myself, "They're using something like whale song for that audio", not knowing that was the hook.
Great job on this whole project so far guys! I'm excited to see your reactions to TNG - in part because, unlike TOS, I've never gone back to re-watch the series so this should be a fun experience. I remember the excitement I felt when TNG began, but I don't have lot of memories of the episodes from the first couple of seasons. Maybe, as others have stated, the show was pretty uneven in terms of quality.
In Re: currency in the TOS era. Taking the general references in the various series and secondary sources (books, tech manuals, etc)and the time periods they take place in, it's generally the case that the 2150s (NX Era) still uses currency, while the 2260s (TOS) is when a fair degree of "post scarcity" economy comes into the equation: Federation technology is such that nobody "has" to work for basic necessities like food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc, though other cultures *outside* the Federation may still do so. In that regard, Federation "credits" are used as a purely fiat currency of exchange for things like when they're drinking at the K-7 station (Tribbles), which in the backend is exchanged by merchants back to the Federation for fuel, rarer materials, transport, etc. By the NextGen Era (2360s+), currency is purely fiat within the Federation and for many cultures, with the exception of the use of the (fictional) "gold-pressed" Latinum, which is a super rare material that can't be replicated and therefore is the only proper "gold standard" used for when such exchanges are necessary between various cultures.
Chekov was just screwing with that 20th century interrogator. He knew what he meant. Starfleet personnel are trained in resisting interrogation after capture, just like servicemen in real life. In the lore they had money in the form of Federation Credits, but sometime between the time of The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan (during their second Five year mission) the Federation eliminated money (to me because the perfected replicator technology).
Reading the spoiler filled article on money in the wikipedia, it appears that TOS only mentions it once, when Kirk offers to pay for the lithium crystals in "Mudd's Women." There were tons of draft scripts that mention it, but nothing made it into the show until this movie where Roddenberry specifically said that it doesn't exist for the Federation. One assumes they have to have something to interact with non-Federation planets, however.
I am a go to the source person. Some discussion about what Nimoy thought or did is not what Nimoy himself has said in interviews or his 2 books. He was very unhappy with the first movie. Specifically because it was not focused on the original cast but just the new characters and all the ship shots as opposed to plot and relationships. Each film they kept being told was the absolute last. Nimoy was at the premiere of Star Trek with Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto and said he never says it's the last TOS story after it has turned out not to be so many times now.
Good discussion. I would say that the OG crew movies are like the series in that they're all a bit different, as you stated. It's a fun episode. It was a great time to spend with these characters at this stage in their lives. We didn't know if we would get any more movies and IV really made TNG possible. Looking forward to seeing what you guys think of that series and everyone has probably been warning you about the first two seasons... But even as they're trying to find their footing, it was good to have Trek back on TV.
Regarding the probe conversation. My view is that the probe aliens, like V-Ger, did not view humans with any relevance . So, as soon as the more ancient, sea-dwelling whales weren’t found, the returning probe aliens viewed the earth as no longer habitable . So in our irrelevance, both Starfleet (and us as the audience) are not privy to the conversation with the whales that suddenly appeared.
Sulu did say he was from San Francisco, so by a crazy chance he could have run into an old relative. I thought it would have been a nice moment for the character.
This is why i liked the motion picture and the voyage home being the best of the films because it felt more like tos trek. Didn't spock communicated to the whales when he was swimming in the tank with them as he did say he was telling them what their intentions' are with them and then kirk did say to populate the species and to save mankind. So when the prob contacted the two whales at the end of the film to me it was the whales explaining that to the prob to what spock said to them and why the population will be safe and strive not just for the humpback but for mankind because of what the prob was doing to the planet. For me that's why there was no explanation at the end the message was clearly all explained from the film. Can't wait for tng seasons and films reviews found them enjoyable to watch throughout your streams
Motion picture is nothing like the original series? That was the main criticism at the time which is why wrath of khan was made to be like original series. The cast all thought the same thankfully the director of 2nd and Bennett realised this.
To me it is as it reminds me a lot of one of the episodes' called the changeling Star Trek: The Original Series: Season 2, Episode 3 very similar story nomad. Very much like a tos episode done on a bigger scale you as a fan must realise that a prob launch from the past en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Changeling_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series) read the first 4 lines and it even states what i have just said very similar to that episode
My dad told me ST:IV saved the franchise and his girlfriend because he watched it with my mom during the Christmas holiday. His whispering to explain each character at the cinema made her laugh. Thank goodness the movie was critically, financially, and romantically successful for me to type these comments.🖖
Watch our REACTION to Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - ruclips.net/video/TVRxOx0F0Zo/видео.htmlsi=1LwBvl1H8NBJ4aLb
Great reaction, but money does exist and it was a retcon that first appeared in this film, Star Trek IV, and it is a total contradiction to everything that came before this and everything that will come after. Next Generation and Voyager try hard to reinforce the no money in the Federation concept, but Deep Space Nine totally obliterates it and eventually the producers settle on “Gold-Pressed Latinum” as the currency of the known Universe.
Kirk talked about Credits as Federation money in the first Harry Mudd episode, McCoy tells the space alien in the bar that he’s got “money” when trying to hire a ship in Star Trek III and Scotty says he just bought a boat in the beginning of Star Trek VI to name just a few examples of the contradiction. So the Star Trek producers have no clue what money actually is which is hilarious.
Money exists to easily facilitate trade, otherwise one has to continually barter and trade items to aquire things people want. There’s an episode of Deep Space Nine where they clearly demonstrate how stupid it is to have NO MONEY exist when Jake Sisko tries to acquire ancient baseball memorabilia for his dad, Captain Sisko. So it makes no sense to not have money, the concept of it is only something a low IQ person would think is great becuase they don’t understand why it exists in the first place.
Really LOVE all of your comments and observations here about all the movies. I'm so glad you're watching everything in release order too. It is the closest replication to the experience we all in my generation had growing up watching Trek. Landru has deemed you both 'of the body' lol.
That was a fun series wrap up discussion. Thank you so much. I had forgotten how controversial it all was at the time.
Comedy was something Nimoy had been exploring directing and "3 Men and A Baby" with Tom Selleck, Ted Danson and Steve Guttenberg of Nimoy's came out the following year.
There are 2 discussions you should see at some point - "Star Trek: The Captain's Summit" on Nathan Travis channel with TOS Shatner, Nimoy and TNG Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes interviewed by Whoopie Goldberg.
The other is an interview Nichelle Nichols did for The Neutral Zone about MLK convincing her to stay and how Shatner insisted on doing the interracial kiss instead of Spock whom they always used to show the effects and target of prejudice instead of any of their human diverse cast members.
Again this whole presentation of yours has been terrific.
I'm glad you guys found something you enjoyed in each movie along the way. For me, #6 is the true send-off for these characters (and also a very solid movie on it's own). Very excited to see you start TNG. I know it'll be rough going for a while, but like with the movies, each show is it's own thing and once TNG found it's voice, nothing else did it better.
You guys are just great. Not only for the content and tone of your reactions, but also your approach. The side bits you do and your inclusion of subscriber’s comments add entertainment value to the mix.
That means a lot, thank you
The Monster Maroon uniforms are the best uniforms ever. IMHO.
i dont want to do spoilers, but i would say Enterprise had the best. Blue jumpsuits, with lots of pockets.
It’s one of the fun things about the TOS movies: they’re all so different. They really feel like their own little miniseries in the Star Trek tradition.
My impression is that Sarek was loved by TOS fans, as was the Spock's family back story. Plus Mark Leonard was a great Vulcan and audiences loved Vulcan stuff, so it is not surprising that he was asked to reprise his role as Sarek in the Star Trek movies
Lenard was an exceptional actor. The dialogue Sarek said to Spock was gushing pride for a Vulcan. My fav is still the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror.
Mark Lenard is the only actor that played a Vulcan, a Romulan, and a Klingon in different TOS movies. I believe he was the Klingon commander in the first movie that has his ships destroyed in the opening scenes.
They didnt overdo it with the Vulcans which made them believable.
@@token1371 Any time, Mark Leonard was in A Star Trek episode/movie, he elevated the scene.
Mark Leonard liked his roles on Trek and even went to some fan conventions. I saw him at one and he was a pretty cool dude.
There was also a running joke about asking him the meaning of life.
Strap in for a rough 26 episodes! I watched TNG during it's initial run and laughed at how quaint TOS felt seeing it on VHS. Now TNG is older than TOS was at the time and man the first season really feels like it. I actually think TOS has aged better in 2023 than season 1 of TNG.
I agree with you. It did take them a little while to figure it all out but it got really good later.
NO VAC CINE! Oh man... yeah some are going to be roughhhh lol (this is not a spoiler, just a painful sound bite)
Yes the first season is rough but the following seasons get much better! Thanks for the reactions guys, great stuff 👍
TNG Season 1 used to be the worst season of TNG, but it has now been replaced by Picard Seasons 1 & 2. Thanfully Picard Season 3 was a great finish.
Season 2 is also rough to say the least. But neither season is without their diamonds in the rough. I have a feeling that these guys will enjoy many parts of early TNG, given that they've found things to like in the typically dislikes episodes/movies.
I just knew you were going to love all four. I was a bit worried about IV since it was obvious that it wasn't what you expected. But I'm glad you still enjoyed it and had so many laughs with it.
And it's still hilarious that each of your favorites is an odd numbered one 😂
Star Trek IV is my favorite of the TOS films. It is a return to the form of the show after two decidedly darker films. TOS could be dark, but it was often light-hearted and fun with great character moments, and that's what this was. And like the episodic show, these films are different from each other, even with connected storylines. I wish the new film did this.
A lot of people talk about how great Roddenberry was, but I think the success of these 3 movies is largely due to producer Harve Bennett. He knew how to make sci-fi stories that appeal to general audiences and not only trekkies. I know several people who weren’t trek mega fans that enjoyed the 3 films mainly because of the humour and the characters. He was a storyteller that knew that characters and writing were key and you could see that in his tv shows (six million dollar man, bionic woman) where sci-fi elements were used yet there were also characters like Oscar, Rudy, Jaime and Steve and Steve’s parents that people could relate to and the stories weren’t just slathered in technobabble like TNG. Probably why I’m not a big fan of TNG and not just the first two seasons, but the entire run. I much prefer ds9
Very interested to see what you think of tng😊
I think Roddenberry was done by 2nd season of TNG....He was 'credited' but had no real imput, guy was an alcohol soaked mess
Being real, I think Trek succeeded in spite of Roddenberry rather than because of him.
Yeah Roddenberry was not part at all. Bennett was mainly evolved and nimoy
11:28
Yhere was also a scene that was written for Star Trek IV that was never filmed that explained why Saavik stayed on Vulcan, instead of returning to Earth with Kirk and company.
That reason being that Saavik was pregnant with Spock's child
Spock's father (Mark Lenard) used to play the mayor of Seattle in the series "Here Come The Brides" (1968). It was a fun series and the theme hit the pop charts.
You guys are insane. The maroon uniforms are awesome. The best uniforms in Trek as far as I am concerned.
If you want an alternate universe version of the "voyage home" between the third and fourth movies, you can check out the stories DC Comics published between those movies when no one knew what was happening next. The crew make lots of stops and gets into lots of adventures. I love them!
The RUclipsr Steve Shives has done a video about that story arc.
I love your comparison to a "side quest" - very apt! I do feel like, they come home to Earth, Spock comes home to himself and his crew-fam, Kirk comes home to "Captain" and they all come home to The Enterprise...so it works that way - but the whale plot is a side quest, definitely!
I love your analysis of the films so far, I'm really looking forward to 'The Undiscovered Country' it remains one of my favourite films in Star Trek.
The Undiscovered Country is my favourite Star Trek, and even in my favourite 30 films. I'm also looking forward to that reaction, but i think that will be a long wait lol.
@@jonbolton3376 Yes, I think so too, but it will be worthwhile when it does happen.
They absolutely have money in Star Trek. Every series has references to it if not outright saying it.
Specifically, Earth’s economy no longer uses money because Gene figured that by then that tech would render it near-useless. But other planets have their own way of doing things, and the Federation uses currency (usually referred to as “credits”).
Thanks. Your discovering TOS and going through it was amazing with the memories it brought back.
Star Trek and M.A.S.H. were the 2 series that lived on in tv reruns for an amazingly long time and both deserved it.
Chekov was also electrocuted in TMP when the systems overloaded. He wasn't injured in Search for Spock but did have a top 3 character arch by being the 3rd officer to initiate the Enterprise self-destruct sequence.
Just like you said, each movie is made stronger by the other installments in the series, making the whole truly special
I don't know whoever said this was a trilogy, but it wasn't planned that way at all. Only later did people start saying this. As a lifelong Trek fan, I'm only starting to hear this from people. I guess it kind of is? Great review guys!
Star Treks 2, 3 and 4 are even packaged as a trilogy.
@MrDeathpilot Yes, but they weren't written as a trilogy at all. They just happen to overlap slightly. Not an intentional trilogy. It's a marketing gimmick & rightly so. Why not? I see they are now naming it the “Genesis Trilogy”.
If you liked Kirk as a comedic actor here, you should watch the show Boston Legal, it's brilliant and he's wonderful in it.
If you ever have time to read, I recommend the books The Making of Star Trek, and The World of Star Trek. Both have lots of behind the scenes secrets and stories, including how the actors used to sometimes play jokes on each other, etc.
Man i really like this channel, since Star Trek is the only thing i love that i have no one to talk to, this channel fulfil this void. I have a lot of Star Wars fans friends, Rpg too, Twin Peaks, Lotr, Video Games, etc... but not a lot of people had tome to watch all of ST, so it is indeed a blessing to know you are going to sit through the tv shows and I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on them.
For now I'll give mine:
I watched all the movies when i was a kid and loved the characters. Since I am a fucking nerd i went and search the best episodes of tos and watched them... Also, i used to see some of TNG on tv.
But when Picard tv show came and i thought the 1 season was the worst star trek media I've ever seen i had a need to rewatch the movies and while rewatching i decided to binge all of TOS and TNG (and later Ds9).
So during the pandemic i began the journey through TOS.
TOS - it was lovely to see the original crew again and finally seeing the whole show it was waaaaay better than i remembered! This is definitely the crew that oozes more nostalgia and charisma.
ST TAS - it was the last one I've watched, and i loved it.
ST I TMP - the sci fi one, still finding the steps of st movies. A little boring but still good.
ST II WoK- the classic one. Most memorable and the one that set the bar to the next ones.
ST III SFS - A good adventure with a heartwarming comeback.
ST IV TVH - the funny and most easy to watch. Love this movie.
ST V TFF - the weird one 😂 i dont like very much, but it still fun.
ST VI TUC - The political one, i think it is the best one, a GREAT ending to TOS crew. Truly incredible.
TNG- Wow, it was awesome to watch the whole series in 2021. In my whole life i loved Picard, Data, Word and the rest. But only from the movies and barely 12 episodes that i watchet. Now i was watching 7 seasons!!! And whata ride it was. Definitely a more consistent show and i has some of the best stuff I've ever seen on tv. I was depressed when i reached the end 😂.
ST VII Gen. - i hated this movie when i was a kid (you guys now why). Now i love it! Still have some flaws, but i think it tells a great story.
ST VIII FC - Such a good movie! Finally the TNG crew seems to fit the big screen.
ST IX Ins. - A little uninspired, but it looks like a reasonable good thg episode extended, so... Ok i guess.
ST X Ne. - Another that i used to hate! I actually enjoyed to rewatch, but it is indeed a movie with more wrongs than rights. And unfortunately the plot is bad😢 (and I don't liked that it erased the TNG finale, made it a alternative reality)
DS9 - THE FIRST ONE I DIDN'T NOW ANYTHING ABOUT!
And man... What a surprise!
It has a fucking great story line, I thin it is the best star trek, i love all these 3 shows alike. But the surprise of a good star trek that i didn't knew my whole life was exciting.
I never cried in any ST (almost on TNG Finale), but on DS9 i cried 4 fucking times!
It is a masterpiece!!!!
Odo, Sisko, Dax, Quark, Garak, Weyoun, Dukat, Bashir, O'Brien and Kira are sooooooooo good! They have such development during these episodes taht no other characters have in the whole of Star Trek.
Voyager- gotta admit, i didn't have the patience to watch it whole... Only the best episodes per season, almost like i did when i was a young Padawan (hehe wrong franchise).
I thought it is a step back after DS9. And unfortunately the characters, although good, don't have a good arc development.
Unfortunately i think it is bad and i doesn't use the shows premise well.
Enterprise - never watched 😢
Picard - First season is disgusting, second season is fine, thirs season should be watching and only this season should be watched, skip those two positronic aberrations 😂😂😂
ST Lower Deck - man love this show, i thought i wouldn't but i do.
I really don't like de JJ Abrams movies, put im whiling do watch Discovery and I think i would love this alternative new reality that is Strange New Worlds!
I beg for forgiveness if there is any mistake, English is not my mother tongue and my universal translator was broken in the Battle of Wolf 359 and i think this new one that i bought from a ferengi is a fake! 😂
I think that a big part of why Harry Mudd testifying on behalf of Kirk was because Roger Caramel had passed away prior to filming Star Trek IV
About the yellow pages building - I was at an event where George Takei spoke. He was often called "Take 1" because he rarely needed more than one take. That building is a bar. They rehearsed the scene 3 times, and each time he looked in that window, a lady at the bar smiled at him. When they went to film, she flashed him, and he cracked up! Wrecked the scene, and had Nemoy asking him "What the hell, George?" That was about 30 years ago, and hearing him speak and getting to meet and recieve an autograph remains a favorite memory.
The no money thing was a big deal to Roddenberry that the rest of the producers had to live with. They get into it a bit more in TNG, but really with replicators they're trying to suggest a post-scarcity society.
As for the environmental message, this was made when movie makers realized their primary job was to entertain, and that a message was fine to fit in so long as it didn't detract from that goal.
I've never warmed up to TNG, much favoring DS9. Perhaps you'll feel differently. Best of luck and thank you for trip back through ST memories.
Their uniforms were inspired by the Canadian Mounties. Side note: I would've been curious to see a deleted scene in ST2 where Sarek & Amanda are informed about Spock's death. Amanda's reaction and Sarek's mixed anger and logic towards Kirk as expressed in ST3.
I’d noticed that before that Chekov is always the one to get beat up - the episode with the space hippies when he got burned by the acidic plants, Specter of the Gun, V’ger zapping his hand, Khan putting space bugs in his ear, bonking his head here.
Even mirror universe Chekhov getting put through the agony booth
At the time there was no expectation for a trilogy conclusion, just for a Star Trek movie.
This one is like the more comic episodes, and I love it for that! It also has a score that sounds like Christmas bells!
I was a little girl who loved watching the TOS reruns because the show was canceled before I was born. The first time I attended a Star Trek Convention it was really inexpensive, not commercialized & my oldest brother drove my cousin & me to it, where we got to see Mark Leonard really close to a stage with only about 50 people in the entire Convention. I was able to buy a ton of things for $15.00 I saved from my allowance.
So much has changed and fan Conventions of all types are so huge. I find it so odd to have watched TWOK beginning as a young girl & now I'm the one with the reading glasses identifying with my own mortality when I watch that movie, much like Kirk in the movie.
I'm 61, this was my favorite TOS movie. It brought back the campiness of the series.
Chekhov was just being a smartass.
I think my Fav. Character in this one is Gillian...mainly because she got to go Into the Future. I liked all the humor in this one as it was a nice change from the Previous movie. Also the last 10 minutes were great! 😀🖖
Of course, back in the day, the TV commercials for The Voyage Home made it clear that it had a lot of comedy and that the crew somehow winds up in 'present day' Earth; so, everyone went into it looking forward to that kind of movie. You guys were in a more unusual situation, being blind to the plot, to be surprised by the time travel element and more humorous tone.
Anyway, I've been enjoying your reactions, both Star Trek and non-Trek stuff. Looking forward to your 'TNG' reactions.
Chekov's purposely playing stupid to try and throw off the Feds. He's the only person in STIII that didn't get a moment. It was nice for him to get something.
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As far as the trilogy conversation, Star Trek IV is the movie where finally every one of the characters gets to get back to why we really love them. Kirk and crew all get back to what their good at and face a problem that would have been perfectly fit in the show. The Voyage Home is a personal voyage. The real end to the trilogy was Kirk's line in the shuttle. "My friends. We've come home."
Woah, I never understood the phone directory wall ad, but that totally explains why Sulu announces, "San Francisco -- I was born there" when they arrive. So weird what happens when stuff gets left on the cutting room floor.
I'd always took the "there's no money" to mean they didn't have 20th Century money. I mean, even in Back to the Future II, Doc Brown pulled out a suitcase with "period" money. I think, by TNG, they became a bit more post-capitalist since they can now replicate food and items. In TOS that had Federation Credits, remember in Touble with Tribbles they were using those. Maybe there is no physical money...like how we use credit and paypal/cash app.
It's interesting that you comment on the pattern of Chekov repeatedly almost dying. There's a book called "Redshirts" written by John Scalzi, which is obviously loosely inspired by Star Trek. It has a Chekov-like character whose purpose in the story is to be the "main character" who almost dies on missions to give the adventures a feeling of stakes.
The original idea for 4 still had time travel and the Crew interacting with a person from our time. But that person was going to be Eddie Murphy!
Star Trek II - IV are quintessential Star Trek for me. We owned those three movies on VHS when I was a kid and I watched them so many times. They got my door into the door of fandom and TNG got me all in. I was so lucky to be a fan in the 90's. Enjoy the ride.
we original trekkies love that you love Star Trek! live long and prosper
Mark Lenard was in one episode of Buck Rogers in the 25th Century. He plays yet another alien, but this one has a detachable head.
In TOS, there's a scene where Kirk blows off saving Spock for friendship reasons:
Do you realize how much money Starfleet has invested in you? And Spock starts to say exactly how much.
Multiple times Kirk tells crew mates they've earned their pay for the week or year.
He talks about having to use the collected tribute to spend on retraining the culture of the planet in A Piece of the Action.
Yeah, and just last week I had a good laugh when my aunt tried to drive off with her cart in front of her horse. 🙃 That is to say, perhaps retroactively we can view those as wry ironic comments using archaic expressions orphaned from in-universe current society.
@@bustedsim you can see them that way... Retroactively.
But at the time they aired, I'm sure they weren't just expressions.
Recall that Spock knew how much money and was telling him.
“Money, I got,” McCoy told the Bem-looking alien in the the prior movie. I love this film, but this out-of-nowhere reveal that there was no money in Federation pissed me off when I was watching it in the theater in 1986-because it was in direct contradiction of decades of TOS canon in which money was referenced (i.e. Federation credits) multiple times. And unfortunately they continued to carry that forward-and it’s an absolute canon violation.
Understand that the producers of the Trek films never said that ST II, III, IV were a trilogy. That evolved over the years simply because those movies followed a chronology. They were never intended to be a true trilogy. Also if you think Shatner is funny in ST IV, find the film “Free Enterprise”, about two young struggling movie producers who meet their childhood idol, Shatner who plays himself, in a Hollywood book store. Hilarious and a must for all Trek fans, especially TOS.
I think those three Star Trek movies are a trilogy in the same way that the godfather series is a trilogy, but not in the same way that the Lord of the rings is a trilogy. A trilogy doesn't have to tell a single coherent story even if many do.
FFS it is a trilogy as the trial & getting a new Enterprise wraps up the saga at the end - why can't these two doofus see this?
Great job guys
Are you guys gonna rewatch _Galaxy Quest_ after now getting into Star Trek and, probably, connecting with that film better?
Probably after finishing TNG
@@targetaudience Sounds good. :)
My thinking has been that "they don't have money" meant they don't have bills and coins which are traded around as a fiat currency. It's a future where all purchases are handled by credit cards and computer-tracked bank accounts. Many countries have been heading in that direction for awhile now.
Christine Chappell also had a line earlier on in the film (it was mentioned in TMP that she's a Doctor now). When the probe was attacking Earth, she said something like 'We need that power for medical '.
There is money in TNG, too. When Kirk refers to money, he means cash. All commerce in the future is credit based.
Right. There’s always been “money” in Star Trek. The “no money in the future” thing was specific to Earth and its new economy after newer tech virtually eliminated poverty.
Star Trek is supposed to be a utopia but a cashfree society is the dream of every authoritarian dictator like XI Jinping. I am glad that here in Germany cash is still king which guarantees more freedom. Here the tenor is that alone for data protection reasons the state should not be allowed to know everything about its citizens and where they are spending their money.
You should probably know in advance that many of the scripts written for The Next Generation were written for the Enterprise crew after The Motion Picture, with Captain Decker.
This is just my opinion but these uniforms are one of my favorites. And I like how they even though the colors for the divisions are different they are still there. Glad you've enjoyed the movies.
Oh boy, they are going to have a field day with TNG's first season...
FYI, regarding a thrown-out back reveal at 11:00, I heard what was spoken by the Asian actors is Cantonese, not Japanese. I can speak Cantonese, so was kinda surprise about a possible backstory reveal. Hikara Sulu character is Japanese.
Plus they were in Chinatown, so having Japanese characters plopped in there is, dare I say, not logical. SF does have a Japantown neighborhood, over 3 miles west from Chinatown.
Mark Leonard even played an alien Ambassador outside of Star Trek. I don't remember the species name but in the TV show Buck Rogers he played an alien that was capable of removing his head.
If you ever watch the TV westerns from the 50's and 60's, you'll see that it's a veritable "Whose who" of Star Trek characters. They were all in westerns. Leonard Nimoy was once an Indian.
Hey Alex and Josh.
Once again it is nice to sit down with you two and hear your "overall" take on things.
That's why those uniforms are nicknamed "the Monster Maroons"
Oh, if you want an obscure Mark Leonard, Spock's Father, role and to be angry at something which never resolves, look up the 1985 limited TV series "Otherworld." He has a whole episode....and this series, sadly, never concluded, and I'll bet no one remembers it.
Great review guys. The amazing thing about TOS is how good it's quality is overall. Sure there are a handful of clunkers, but overall it's a great show.
Eddie Murphy was originally supposed to be the Whale biologist but he was filming Golden Child instead. He was a huge Trek fan and the biggest movie star at the time.
I really enjoy the way you guys are watching this all in release order...and I cannot wait to see your faces as you watch Star Trek V. LOL
You know, they got me to kinda like Spock’s Brain. And McCoy has an amazing scene in it.
I'm glad you both enjoyed it even more after watching it again! I loved hearing what you had to say about all four films, how each gave something the others didn't and how satisfying that is.
In the late 1960's, Mark Leonard starred in a show called "Here Come the Brides". His character, Aaron Stempel, is featured in the Star Trek TOS novel "Ismael", which is a crossover of both series.
One of my favorite of the novels -- and there are many little crossover moments hinted at in there from a lot of other shows and franchises. Lots of TV Westerns like Paladin and Bonanza, and lots of SF like Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica. I'd only twigged onto the Who references the first time I read it, but there are so many more.
If your intention is to watch Star Trek in chronological order, things are going to get a little more interesting. As you've mentioned, you still have two more movies with the TOS cast. Which happen concurrent with TNG. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine overlaps the lasts few seasons of TNG. Voyager overlaps the last few seasons of DS9.
Chekov is always the one something terrible happens to. When he got the ear worm thing in wrath of Kahn we were laughing because it has to be chekov.
I always liked the purple VHS box. It fits with the art well, I think.
As I did with TOS Season 3 and TAS, I would like to offer a spoiler-free general preview of TNG for new viewers.
In the discussion at the end of your “Is There In Truth No Beauty?” reaction video, Josh said about the dinner-party scene in that episode, “It’s just the characters talking to each other… deep character stuff to make them more believable as like real people and not just fictional characters… That’s one of my favorite parts about Star Trek.” In your Season 3 review video, Josh added, “It’s like a five-minute scene of them just all talking about the plot but also about them as characters, building up these guest characters, and I’m like, ‘Give me more of that,’ you know. I don’t find that boring…”
Now, I freely admit that it would be an exaggeration to describe TNG as a version of that dinner-party scene that is seven seasons long. TNG has kick-ass action sequences, creepy horror-tinged episodes, mind-bending sci-fi ideas, and almost as much sex as "The Golden Girls." However, it would not be *much* of an exaggeration to describe TNG as seven seasons of that dinner party. Even more than with TOS, the show’s most iconic moments are thoughtful conversations between characters, and its best episodes revolve around such scenes. To put it another way, if TOS is the Magic Kingdom, TNG is Epcot. For Xennials such as myself, if TOS is "Choose Your Own Adventure," TNG is "Time Machine."
Like TOS and TAS, TNG is a fully episodic series by the modern standards of the streaming era: one can catch the episodes in any order in syndication and still follow what is going on. Nonetheless, TNG is much more serialized than TOS or TAS. There are multiple two-part episodes throughout the series’ run; there are also recurring characters and ongoing storylines that resurface from time to time. When you asked yourselves at the end of a TOS episode whether the show would revisit a particular character or storyline, the answer was usually no (with Harry Mudd as the major exception). When you ask yourselves the same question at the end of a TNG episode, the answer will often, although by no means always, be yes.
As you already know, TNG Season 1, like TOS Season 3, is unpopular with fans. However, you have also already guessed that you will love Season 1, and I agree with this assessment: TNG Season 1 is genuinely excellent.
I may feel this way due to nostalgia. I first started watching TOS and TNG in syndication sometime in 1990, when the first run of TNG had reached the early fourth season. Therefore, Seasons 1 and 2, as I encountered them in reruns, loomed far larger as part of the TNG mythos than they may have to viewers who discovered the series after all seven seasons were complete. However, Season 1 has other defenders as well. For example, the media critic L.I. Underhill, whose essays about Star Trek are available on the Eruditorum Press website, writes, “TNG Season 1 is better than Seasons 2, 3 and 4. Almost combined. It is also better than Season 5, though just by a couple episodes.” Underhill has very unusual opinions (they regard the importance of plot and character development as overrated; they love “The Alternative Factor” and dislike “The City on the Edge of Forever”), but I agree with them that TNG Season 1 is a thing of beauty.
Also, while LeVar Burton once said about TNG, “Oh, don’t even go to the first season!” Jonathan Frakes commented near the end of TNG’s run, “I think we took greater chances then than we do now… Some of it misses, but some were great.” Viewers, of course, should not take either actor’s word for it, but should decide for themselves which statement is fact and which is fiction.
In addition to its inherent quality, Season 1 will be your introduction to the characters and world of TNG, which I think you will find just as absorbing to explore for the first time as the world of Star Trek itself was in TOS Season 1. Gene Roddenberry intended TNG to be a fresh start for Star Trek, just as you have anticipated for each successive version of the franchise, and exploring this new and yet familiar universe will be an amazing journey.
I hope the first season of TNG goes alright for them 😬
Part of watching this now vs watching it as a kid then teen then adult over the 6 TOS films is we were so star trek starved.
It was on every day in reruns and to get new trek with the cast was just so much candy.
Then to view TMP as a kid was a disappoinment and now its such a great film that captures what we were missing. TWOk was just pure joy after TMP and has such fun rewatchability.
And each film did go a different direction which is so fulfilling now after dozens of rewatches.
Star trek is the gift that keeps giving and its so much fun!
Harry Mudd actor Roger C. Caramel died two weeks before the release of Star Trek IV The Voyage Home.
I was shocked that he was only 54 years old in 1986 when he passed away.
I am 54 years and I don’t look anywhere near that old.
Roger C Carmel looks like he was already in his 50s back during the original series. 🖖🏼
You guys have said in both videos that this is the last movie before TNG.
But you still have 2 movies left! V: The Final Frontier and VI: The Undiscovered Country.
They may have both been made after TNG started, but they’re unrelated to it.
I’d recommend you watch them both before moving on to TNG, say a proper goodbye to the TOS cast.
I enjoyed seeing your reaction. I love the Voyage Home. Saw it in the theater when it was first released. If you watch Kirk's subtle reaction in the restaurant scene when he has his first sip of beer you can see an appreciation for something from that time that is no longer available to him, a good beer.
Leonard Nimoy had a comedic touch as a director. He also directed "3 Men and a Baby" in the 1980s.
Great reaction! It is very interesting to see your reaction to the film Robocop 1987. This is a cool movie 👍🔥🦾
the Voyage Home isn't intended to be about Earth as much as coming full circle. Back to the Enterprise, back to the crew, back with the Spock they knew and that kinda thing more than just a trip back to Earth.
For Mudd, not sure that would have worked out.. The actor that played Mudd died just a few weeks before Voyage Home was released. I know he was still doing voice work but i dont think he had appeared on screen in person for years
The Next Generation the first season did have a Scottish Chief Engineer, but he wasn't a main character. But Paramount was getting lots a fanmail for him. In fact they started getting fanmail for stuff he did in episodes that hadn't even aired yet. They discovered he was sending in the fan letters trying to get his character to be more like a main character.. so they canned him.
Interesting that you were caught off guard by the comments, because i agree with you, i never considered it to be a trilogy, and the first time i even heard that many considered it to be a trilogy, was when i also saw some RUclips videos about it.
Again, great channel. Cannot wait for your perspectives on 5 and 6. 😊
Now i'm jsut so hyped to see your reaction the the last two TOS movies. Cause they are both soooooo good in their own right.
Like listening to you guys ramble on about these great films. I had the privilege of having a parents into it enough to take me to all the TOS films at their releases. My father took me (and eventually my kids) to conventions. Lost my father a few years back now and the Sarek stuff really hits the feels. Thanks for sharing. Look forward to what you have to say on 5 and six. Yeah 5 was considered a black sheep for a long time but modern Trek has really put a nice shine on all the stuff that came before at this point. 6 really felt like a solid conclusion to the whole TOS era and the Cold War era for the real world.
Growing up in the 70's and 80's I was just excited when a new Star Trek movie was announced. I never saw 2-4 as a trilogy. To me they were sequels or direct sequels.
Its an older vid from you guys but I had a crappy day and its up to you to put me in a good mood. :P
Star Trek 3 & 4 did give the side characters way more to do which is how season 1 of TOS started out as before turning into the big 3. The first 2 movies had them first in their positions but that's it.
Your analyses of the Star Trek Shows and movies are marvelous and a highlight of my RUclips round-robin. I look forward to seeing your take on TNG. I saw the movies in the theaters back in the day (each on the first day they came out!), and the only one I was pretty sure was upcoming was ST 4. There were only rumors at the time, no internet of spoilers, but I remember reading somewhere that ST 4 would "include time travel". But, as with you, it completely subverted my expectations and was a surprise. Interestingly, the very first time I heard that sound from the alien craft, I said to myself, "They're using something like whale song for that audio", not knowing that was the hook.
You guys are doing a great job respecting the material and breaking it down. Good luck doing Next Generation no clues you will find out.
Great job on this whole project so far guys! I'm excited to see your reactions to TNG - in part because, unlike TOS, I've never gone back to re-watch the series so this should be a fun experience. I remember the excitement I felt when TNG began, but I don't have lot of memories of the episodes from the first couple of seasons. Maybe, as others have stated, the show was pretty uneven in terms of quality.
This movie is my comfort movie I love this silly movie so much!
In Re: currency in the TOS era. Taking the general references in the various series and secondary sources (books, tech manuals, etc)and the time periods they take place in, it's generally the case that the 2150s (NX Era) still uses currency, while the 2260s (TOS) is when a fair degree of "post scarcity" economy comes into the equation: Federation technology is such that nobody "has" to work for basic necessities like food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc, though other cultures *outside* the Federation may still do so. In that regard, Federation "credits" are used as a purely fiat currency of exchange for things like when they're drinking at the K-7 station (Tribbles), which in the backend is exchanged by merchants back to the Federation for fuel, rarer materials, transport, etc. By the NextGen Era (2360s+), currency is purely fiat within the Federation and for many cultures, with the exception of the use of the (fictional) "gold-pressed" Latinum, which is a super rare material that can't be replicated and therefore is the only proper "gold standard" used for when such exchanges are necessary between various cultures.
Chekov was just screwing with that 20th century interrogator. He knew what he meant. Starfleet personnel are trained in resisting interrogation after capture, just like servicemen in real life.
In the lore they had money in the form of Federation Credits, but sometime between the time of The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan (during their second Five year mission) the Federation eliminated money (to me because the perfected replicator technology).
Reading the spoiler filled article on money in the wikipedia, it appears that TOS only mentions it once, when Kirk offers to pay for the lithium crystals in "Mudd's Women." There were tons of draft scripts that mention it, but nothing made it into the show until this movie where Roddenberry specifically said that it doesn't exist for the Federation. One assumes they have to have something to interact with non-Federation planets, however.
I am a go to the source person.
Some discussion about what Nimoy thought or did is not what Nimoy himself has said in interviews or his 2 books.
He was very unhappy with the first movie. Specifically because it was not focused on the original cast but just the new characters and all the ship shots as opposed to plot and relationships.
Each film they kept being told was the absolute last. Nimoy was at the premiere of Star Trek with Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto and said he never says it's the last TOS story after it has turned out not to be so many times now.
Good discussion. I would say that the OG crew movies are like the series in that they're all a bit different, as you stated. It's a fun episode. It was a great time to spend with these characters at this stage in their lives. We didn't know if we would get any more movies and IV really made TNG possible. Looking forward to seeing what you guys think of that series and everyone has probably been warning you about the first two seasons... But even as they're trying to find their footing, it was good to have Trek back on TV.
Regarding the probe conversation. My view is that the probe aliens, like V-Ger, did not view humans with any relevance . So, as soon as the more ancient, sea-dwelling whales weren’t found, the returning probe aliens viewed the earth as no longer habitable .
So in our irrelevance, both Starfleet (and us as the audience) are not privy to the conversation with the whales that suddenly appeared.
Sulu did say he was from San Francisco, so by a crazy chance he could have run into an old relative. I thought it would have been a nice moment for the character.
I got five bars of gold pressed latinum that says STV will be their favorite.
Haha.
For another great Leonard Nimoy directed comedy, I highly recommend Three Men and a Baby.
Ted Dansan, Steve Guttenberg, and Tom Selleck.
This is why i liked the motion picture and the voyage home being the best of the films because it felt more like tos trek. Didn't spock communicated to the whales when he was swimming in the tank with them as he did say he was telling them what their intentions' are with them and then kirk did say to populate the species and to save mankind. So when the prob contacted the two whales at the end of the film to me it was the whales explaining that to the prob to what spock said to them and why the population will be safe and strive not just for the humpback but for mankind because of what the prob was doing to the planet. For me that's why there was no explanation at the end the message was clearly all explained from the film. Can't wait for tng seasons and films reviews found them enjoyable to watch throughout your streams
Motion picture is nothing like the original series? That was the main criticism at the time which is why wrath of khan was made to be like original series. The cast all thought the same thankfully the director of 2nd and Bennett realised this.
To me it is as it reminds me a lot of one of the episodes' called the changeling Star Trek: The Original Series: Season 2, Episode 3 very similar story nomad. Very much like a tos episode done on a bigger scale you as a fan must realise that a prob launch from the past en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Changeling_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series) read the first 4 lines and it even states what i have just said very similar to that episode
Y'all are exactly where I fell in love with Star Trek... height of TOS movies and TNG show... well... after the 2nd season 😬
My dad told me ST:IV saved the franchise and his girlfriend because he watched it with my mom during the Christmas holiday. His whispering to explain each character at the cinema made her laugh. Thank goodness the movie was critically, financially, and romantically successful for me to type these comments.🖖