You may not read this entire comment because it's going to be very long. Here's what I believe the difference is between those of us who have been Star Trek fans for many decades and you two who have only experienced Star Trek for a very short time in comparison... What those of us decades-long fans experienced: Live action Star Trek had been off the air for over a decade before we saw it again. In that decade, we watched rerun after rerun for an entire decade. To the point that many of us could repeat the dialog verbatim. We went to Star Trek conventions whenever we could. It had been 3 years between the releases of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. It was another 2 years before Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was released. Slightly over 2 years until Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was released. Another 2-1/2 year before Star Trek V: The Final Frontier and finally almost 2-1/2 years until we saw Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. That was a total of over 15 years of Star Trek that we got to experience. We've watched each TOS episode and TOS movie more times that we can recall. For some, the number could easily be in the hundreds (for me, it definitely is since I've watched Star Trek since September 8, 1966). What you two have experienced (as far as I can tell): Less than 2 years of Star Trek. You probably haven't watched every single episode multiples of times. You are, in no way, as invested in Star Trek as those of us who have watched it for (in my case) 57 years. This is not to diminish your opinions. You have every right to feel the way you do about Star Trek. Even if you hated it (which, it's obvious you don't). I think what I'm trying to say is that you haven't had the same length of time that we have had to allow it to sink in. You don't have to wait until the next season airs or wait years for the next film. And for this, I feel a little sorry for you. Because you will never get to experience it as we did. Unless you watch everything in the real-life timeline order we had to (which seems unlikely), you can never understand what it feels like to have to wait for years for the next iteration of Star Trek. Everything is immediately available to you with a simple click.
The theatrical release of "Star Trek, The Motion Picture" was slow, but the the rest of the movies w/ TOS cast, I remember as all being in the same range of satisfactory. People enjoyed those actors, playing those characters, so the stories didn't necessarily need to stand out from one anither. I think, that's why you don't hear them commented on so much. In fans minds, they're all thrown in with "The Wrath of Khan".
@@tvdroid22I love the episode where Jim turns out to be a programming genius when it came to television shows and he makes a huge deal out of what a mistake it was to cancel _Star Trek_ in the 60’s. A network executive (played by Martin Short, no less) tries to convince Jim to help him while he takes all the credit. The way he gets Jim on board is by telling him "If we had you a few years ago, you could have saved _Star Trek!"_ This episode originally aired 2 or 3 years before Star Trek III came out and considering what Lloyd's involvement with the franchise would be, it tickles me every time I see it.
Personally I always interpreted it like this: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" represents sacrifice and duty as a starfleet officer. The need to sacrifice yourself for the greater good, for the ship. "The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" represents friendship. The need to sacrifice the greater good for the one person, for a friend. Duty to starfleet, the ship and the uniform are one side of these characters. Their feelings of friendship for eachother is the other side and completes the circle.
The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many is on the face of it, illogical, but it’s a very human response. Spock struggles with this paradox.
@@kurtl8425Especially since that one sacrificed himself to get them out of the blast radius. They have, at one time or another, put their lives at risk for each other. This time, one of the family had been permanently, they thought, claimed by the Grim Reaper.
Saw this film opening day and I’ve always loved it. The Enterprise heist is one of my favorite sequences in the entire franchise. Such an underrated film.
My favourite bit is when the enterprise is leaving spacedock I love how Kirk and scotty have a slight panicked face until the doors open and the enterprise misses the doors Kirk slips back into his cool calm demeanour
As I've said in other comments, this film is very underrated but perhaps more emotionally satisfying than TWOK so I am glad that you loved it and your reaction validates many of the feelings that I have had about it.
I think this 3 movie stint (Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, and The Voyage Home) are my 3 favorite Star Trek movies. It tells such a fun and gripping story that leaves you satisfied but also wanting more. Like that stage where you're satisfied with a good meal, but also thinking that you want more and could probably eat more. I look forward to how you guys react to the next movie. It's a goofy one.
I think a lot of people disliked not having Spock in this movie. They missed that he wasn't in it for much of the movie. That's all I can think of. I love it, especially when Spock 2.0 says "Your name is Jim", and the TOS theme music softly starts, as he greets his old shipmates! Having both Sarek and Amanda in this movie was fantastic, yet I wish we could have had a bit more of Amanda. Great movie!
I remember when it came out. We all knew Spock would be back. Everyone was more interested and excited that Nimoy had directed the movie. Which you know kick off a big directing career . Making the biggest movie of the year in 1987.
@@reesebn38*one of the biggest movies of the year. Three Men and a Baby was the 5th top grossing film of 1987 behind Beverly Hills Cop II, Platoon, Fatal Attraction, and The Untouchables. Also Nimoy is responsible for one of the biggest movie urban legends ever!
@user-rt7vl9ky3r excuse me, I meant to say, "there's not much Spock in this movie". And, yes, I get it, that it's called "The Search for Spock", but I think a lot if "Trek" fans really missed him. Yes, the payoff was wonderful, but I think a lot of people just love the character of Spock so much, that they didn't give this one much of a chance. That's what I meant. It's great, though, and the payoff is fantastic.
In addition to being a direct weapon, the Federation could have used the Genesis Device to terraform numerous lifeless planets along the Klingon border and use them as bases from which to launch and supply an invasion of the Klingon Empire. (I'm speaking from the point of view of the Klingons, of course. I doubt the Federation was actually planning this. And Project Genesis proved to be a failure in this regard anyway.)
Nobody hated ST3 when it first came out, it was Nick Meyer, the director of ST2 & ST6 and producer of ST4, back in the 90’s who started floating the, “I only like the ‘Even’ numbered films and not the ‘Odd’ ones” in interviews with the press and fan club magazines and that’s when some non-Trek fans started hating on ST3 because they weren’t fans, but this film was ALWAYS a good one. In fact I was young when this film first came out, and after seeing it in the theaters, I wanted Star Trek toys to go buy and play with, but unfortunately there were none at all and it would be another 10 years later, long after I had grown up, when they would make them. I always thought that was a missed opportunity.
Kirstie Alley by the time of Search for Spock was on Cheers and had done the "Look who's talking" movie, and when it came time to offer her a contract, Alley's representative dropped a number, and the executives were like " Shatner doesn't even get that much."
LWT didn't come out until 1989 but yes, the money. Alley was initially offered less than for TWOK, she upped her ask from that film due much longer screen-time. The price was more than D. Kelley's salary and they never found a happy medium.
I have always loved 3. It is face paced, story-driven and emotional. The entire cast gets a moment to shine, which is also the case for the next one, which I also love.
You guys are going to love Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. The camera angles, the look and feel of the film, the music, and the callbacks to Star Trek II and Star Trek III really tie a lot of things together. I've noticed that the things you've liked about the first three films are things the 6th does in abundance.
I love your post-reaction reviews! A window into your thoughts and feelings that doesn't always come through in most reaction videos on RUclips. I wish some of the other reaction channels I watch would do something similar.
17:17 - I think this moment you mention was a great callback to Amok Time when McCoy tells Kirk he's jeopardizing himself to violate Starfleet orders in order to help Spock. He replies: "Well I can't let Spock die can I? He's saved my life a dozen times over. Isn't that worth a career?!" Very true to Kirk's character from canon.
The Enterprise is actually closer to 40 years old in this movie, but kirk took command of her 20 years prior in TOS. Its a small movie mistake thats always bothered me for some reason. I really like this movie, but Star Trek IV will always be my favorite.
The fact you guys are giving Search for Spock such praise is seriously warming my heart. I remember watching this movie in the theater with my Mom (who actually didn't hate the movie). And I must have rewatched the heck out of this movie.
I saw this on opening day. It's my favorite of the films but I seldom watch it by itself. 2, 3 and 4 together make a perfect watch, in my opinion. I believe Spock would say "Logic dictates the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one, however in my experience humans are often guided by their passions. It is a reminder that, even in the face of illogical choices, the human capacity for compassion, sacrifice, and loyalty can lead to remarkable outcomes. I am fortunate to have such friends."
James Horner's music score and the emotion in the film is higher than the others for me. The stealing of the enterprise sequence is the best of the movie franchise for me.
Both James Horner and Jerry Goldsmith bring out exactly how Star Trek should feel. Starting from Goldsmith doing The Motion Picture and Horner Wrath of Khan they started a series of movies where Jerry Goldsmith did the first such as Alien and Horner Aliens. This continued as well with Cocoon and Cocoon The Return. Not entirely sure how that happened but each movie gave the opportunity to put their own spin on how it should feel and it always worked. I believe without these initial sci-fi movies for Horner and how well he knocked them out of the park but also emotionally as well, and if not for working with James Cameron in Aliens he wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to write and compose Titanic as well as collaborate with Celine Dion for My Heart Will Go On. Both Horner and Goldsmith are my favourite sci-fi composers that I used to take out the soundtracks to Star Trek 1, 2 & 3 on LP from the library and listen to them (as well as John Williams Superman etc) over and over. Now they have both left us but left a remarkable body of work am sure we will keep stumbling upon in movies we have yet to see and will be excited to hear it. RIP James Horner and RIP Jerry Goldsmith 🙏
Why did people prefer wrath of khan to search for spock? You gave the answer in this video. Search for Spock felt like a big episode of star trek. To us back in the day wrath of khan felt more movie like. I enjoyed both movies but that is why i still give wrath of khan the edge over search for spock.
"I... HAVE HAD... ENOUGH OF YOU!" is one of those movie quotes that my family throws around all the time. There were a couple thing you said in the reaction video and this video about the Star Trek universe that won't actually end up being true in late movies and shows, but I won't spoil them. It's unfortunate because they happen to be things you like about it, so I hope they won't spoil your appetite.
While I don’t hate TSFS, it was and is an uneven movie to me. It has some brilliant character moments and the stealing of the Enterprise was and is epic (except for one element). The destruction of the ship was a heartbreaking experience. (Even though the damn studio spoiled it in the trailer!) At the time, all Chris Lloyd was known for was the bizarre stoner Reverend Jim on the TV comedy Taxi. Most fans hated that a comedic actor was cast as the lead Klingon. But he grew on us and we love Kruge now. But there things that still grate for me. The production design money was spent on everything except the Excelsior bridge, which is just comically simple, cheesy, and flimsy looking. The Looney Tunes sound effects when it konks out were also huge eye rollers. And as much as I love Robin Curtis, she was kinda cringe as Saavik. She was very robotic in places. Especially when she announced David’s death. Anyway, I’m glad you guys liked it.
Hello Gents! heres a little behind-the-scenes stuff i read long ago. In the original script, the villains were written and suppose to be Romulan. When they designed the ship, they were designing it as an updated Romulan Bird of Prey (ST: TOS). In fact, the Romulans were suppose to be the main bad guys for the movies. When Kirk tells Savik "The Klingons don't take prisoners", that line was originally "the Romulans dont take prisoners" because it had been established that in the Earth-Romulan war, the enemy took no captives. The studio, however, wasnt as familiar with the Romulans as we are and they demanded the change. As far as Robin Curtis? Yeah, i didnt like the change. Robin played a full Vulcan where Kirsti Allie played a (non-canon) Vulcan-Romulan officer. I preffered "Savik" from 'Wrath of Kahn'. She was alot more complex, i think.
In the novelization of the movie, Uhura escapes capture by beaming close to the Vulcan embassy. She barely outraces security and Sarek protects her from arrest. They travel to Vulcan together - the rendezvous point she mentions to Kirk.
Part of why ST3 works is , like you say, because everybody gets to shine. Leonard Nimoy apparently paid attention when he worked on Mission:Impossible. It's very evident in ST4.
A little film history trivia: Beginning with this film and continuing into “The Voyage Home,” also directed by Nimoy… For a time, Nimoy became a sought-after director and producer. He directed a number of notable films, including the wildly-popular “Three Men and a Baby.”
Before playing Doc Brown, and before Star Trek three, Christopher Lloyd played Reverend Jim on the television series TAXI. For people my age that is a classic series, and Reverend Jim was a hilarious character and extremely popular. John Larroquette is also one of the Klingons in this movie. John Larroquette has won five Emmys for Night Court.
I agree, It's everything you want from Star Trek. The enterprise heist is awesome. All the characters had their moments. It had the right amount of comedy, drama, and action. In the commentary Leonard Nimoy said about Christopher Lloyd, that some people didn't think he was right for the part because he was known more for comedy but he wasn't going to typecast someone because he knew what that was like. I'm glad he gave Lloyd the part and he was great with it.
There was some specific reason they couldn't get Bibi Besch (Carol Marcus) back - they couldn't even use her voice-over on the "Genesis" tape so Shatner had to re-do it. (In those days contracts were different; it's not like - say - the MCU where every actor signs something allowing all their footage to be owned forever and forcing them to come back etc.).
I agree that this one is definitely rewatchable. I put Khan ahead of this one simply because of the impact it had on me as a fan after the mixed feelings I had from TMP. Similar to your comments, BOTH Khan and this film had “all the feels” missing from TMP.
I’ll never forget seeing this in theaters. My fiends and I were already huge Trek fans and had Wrath of Khan committed to memory. We were sitting there… hey that Klingon seems kind familiar… wait, that’s Reverend Jim! (Remember, Back to the Future wouldn’t come out until the following summer. But my friends and I were also huge Taxi fans. What a time to be alive. 55 now.
That lesson, the needs of the many, outweighs the needs of the few, or the one, is a thought I had all throughout my entire life, the beauty of the reversal, that the need of the many, in this case the crew of the enterprise, risk their lives for the need of the few, or the one Spock, is a parallel to what life is all about... The sacrifices we make in life, for either cause, are valid...
As an Original Trekkie ( Night One : The Man Trap ) I Love All the Star Trek Movies! IV, The Voyage Home is near and dear to Trekkie's hearts! It is a Really "Fun" Movie .... And Time Travel !!! I hope you love it as much as I do!
"The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many " for *me* has always been about how, if you're willing to throw away individuals as collateral damage - what are you fighting for? We need to believe that each and every person is worth saving at any cost, or we aren't the Good Guys. While Spock's version is about one's right to sacrifice one's SELF, Kirk's version speaks to society NOT having the right to sacrifice ONE to save itself.
I think maybe some people feel that STIII doesn't quite stand on its own two feet the way STII does. I mean, you could watch STII and get a complete story without watching STIII, while STIII leans heavily on previous knowledg of STII because it's a direct sequel. It's not a judgement on the quality of the film itself.
I saw all six Star Trek films on their opening nights. There's nothing like seeing them with a live audience and hearing their reactions. We didn't know if Leonard Nimoy was going to appear or not that night at the end of TSFS. When he did the whole theater was completely silent to hear his brief conversation with Kirk at the end. I watched the original series for years on TV before the movies ever came out and never imagined how much different it would feel seeing the characters you've grown to admire with other fans in a theater.
Hah, I’m sure there are a few out there like yourselves who loved III, but I don’t know that I’ve personally heard anyone say it’s their favorite, but hey, that’s why I love you guys and the channel. Even between you guys, you disagree as to whether you preferred Alley or Curtis for Saavik. The beauty of movie and series is that we get to enjoy what we enjoy and like what we like (hello, I am the captain of the USS Obvious). And you guys are frank and honest with that and I appreciate it.
The Search for Spock is my favorite Star Trek movie. The TOS characters are all important to the plot. The pacing is great. Kirk has the best character arc of the other films. Also the story is the most compelling to me. It’s not about defeating the villain. It’s about how much is Kirk and crew willing to sacrifice to save Spock. I’m happy that you guys liked this movie!
Saw ST III in the theater when it first came out. I distinctly recall thinking as I filed out with the rest of the crowd that it would have been a solid entry as a television episode (The direction and much of the production design felt as if it were made for television.), but that, even compared to other science fiction films of the period, it didn't fully embrace cinematic story telling (unlike, e.g. Terminator) nor did the effects measure up (The Empire Strikes Back /Return of the Jedi). I suspect that these aspects were what contributed to the initial consensus for The Search For Spock (i.e. decent, but not clear it was worth the price of a movie ticket). In the present day, these issues become less significant when watching at home (as elements of grandeur are muted for all films) and with the benefit of perspective after the passage of decades from the original release (where the viewer makes allowances for the limited effects technology available at the time).
Trivia time. The guy who was put in charge of the Enterprise destruction, was chosen specifically because he famously hated the design of the ship. They knew he would relish making it look as spectacular as possible.
I didn't tell you how much i love it beforehand because I didn't want you expecting too much. I was hoping you'd love it as much as i do, and glad that you do.
Glad you guys liked this one so much. In the 80's and 90's, there was a very loud contingent of people who liked to say that all the even numbered Star Trek films were good and odd numbered ones were bad. I never understood wtf they were smoking. 1 and 3 are great movies. IMO the only bad one is 5, but I've softened on that over the years too.
Leonard Nimoy was an accomplished photographer. Many of his pictures are in black and white so he really knew about light and shadow. The smoky scene on the bridge was a good example of this.
If you guys loved St 3 TSFS you’re going to absolutely love The Voyage Home. I am super excited to watch your review. It brings me back to when I was a kid and saw these movies in the theater. Star Trek 4 is the best ending to one of the best movie trilogies ever released in theaters, IMO. Hurry up and watch it!!!!!
One of the reasons I really like watching your reactions is that it makes me think a bit about how I feel about this episode or that movie. When Search for Spock first came out, we called it "Star Trek 2 1/2" because it didn't feel like a standalone movie. You had to have Star Trek II in order to have III. And that was a lot less common back then. All the Bond movies were pretty standalone, for example. I remember enjoying the movie, but it didn't have the gut-punch feeling of Spock dying. However, after further review, I think very fondly of the small character moments in Star Trek III. I'm going to have to sit down and rewatch them again with slightly fresher eyes.
I think you have to understand the love for Star Trek 2 in the context of the time in which it was made. First of all a lot of Star Trek fans felt that the characters were missing from Star Trek the Motion Pictures and when Star Trek 2 came along they felt like the characters were really back. But secondly and possibly more important, Star Trek from the very beginning was always on the verge of being cancelled. In fact it was canceled after the first season and there was a write in campaign by fans that got it renewed for a second season, and then again at the the end of the second season it was going to be canceled and a write-in campaign got it renewed for a third season. Then there were a lot of rumors that Star Trek would be coming back in the seventies as a television series and that was kind of off and on, so people get their hopes up and then they would be dashed. When Star Trek the motion picture came along and it was only moderately successful again there was a sense that that may be the end of Star Trek. When in Star Trek 2 came along and was he an enormous hit, for the first time it felt like there's a future for Star Trek and they're not just going to cancel it because this is too successful. I think that is part of the reason that fans love that movie so much, its the movie that saved Star Trek. I must add to this that I love Star Trek 3 equally to Star Trek 2. To me they are parts 1 and 2 of the same story, with Star Trek 4 as kind of an epilogue.
Good talk gentlemen. I suspect that you.will find that the third doesn't get mentioned as people's favorites because it is the bridge to #4. You guys may or may not have seen four at this point,...so, to avoid the risk of spoiling things, I will say no more.
I would say that the Enterprise wasn't that old considering it was just through a major refit and upgrade 5 years ago. However I guess that Starfleet simply wasn't making Constitution-class ships anymore, and it was so damaged why bother? They have a whole fleet full of Constitution-class that are getting ready for mothballs.
I... LOVE this movie!!! I saw II & III as a child. I loved the second one. I mean, Mr. Fantasy Island as the bad guy? Awesome!!! The third one came out the year my father passed away, so there is a lot of sentimentality attached to it for me. Spock is probably my favorite character, even though I love the dynamic of the Kirk, Spock, & Bones trio. I love Uhura & Sulu showing their strength, Sarek being an amazing Vulcan, Saavik being a female reflection of Spock (with the appropriate, Vulcan eyebrows this time), Scotty's commitment and love for the Enterprise, Christopher Lloyd as a pretty darn good Klingon (Also John Larroquette played Maltz). Chekov provided a little comic relief towards the end, and it was really cool seeing Vulcan. This one is probably my favorite. I like the fourth one as well, but this one, with the crew disobeying Starfleet to go find their friend: priceless! ❤
I love that film, I don't know why it gets such a bad rap. You've covered so much of what is to appreciate in it, I just want to add one thing that has stuck with me ever since I first saw the film. The sequence on the little private freighter, the "Merchantman", struck a nerve with me. I found this glimpse into a bigger world beyond Starfleet unbelievably thrilling, and if I could choose a ship to work on, it would be that ship (sans the destruction, of course). That was such a rare glimpse into space travel and non-Starfleet ships. We would occasionally see and hear about it in the original series, as with Harry Mudd or Cyrano Jones, but this one was pure magic to me.
A highly underrated film that I agree feels the most like an episode of the show if made in the 80s. It’s problem is being the film between better regarded films, but I agree there is a lot to love.
How soon until you do The Next Generation? I'm really excited for it! Thanks for letting me relive a journey through Star Trek with fresh eyes, great perspectives!
@@targetaudienceRemember it's doesn't need to be Kirk vs. Picard, or TOS vs. TNG, in fact it shouldn't be, it can be Kirk + Picard, TOS + TNG. You can have your favorites but you don't need to dismiss others because they are not your favorites, or not among your favorites yet. Not that you guys would do this, just saying it in case, because back in the 80’s and 90's, it took a lot to turn some old school Trek fans into TNG fans because they felt it was a betrayal to TOS. Finally what many realized is TOS will always be there and their style will always be their style and that worked. Just because TNG has their own style that also woked doesnt mean theirs is better, just that there can be more than one right answer. You can keep loving TOS Trek as it is and then as a bonus get to see TNG have _their_ adventures. Then you get a lot more Trek to enjoy! Never elimination, only addition! As long as it's done right, not the same, just right, like all due respect paid to what came before and well written stories, then all Trek is good Trek!
One my closest friends, and perhaps an even bigger Trek fan than I am, panned the movie simply because he couldn’t wrap his head around “Reverend Jim from Taxi” playing a Klingon captain.
On Sept’11, 2001, when I was viewing news coverage on tv, changing channels, at one point, ST:3 was one. Kirk kicking Krug off the cliff “I’ve had enough of you!”…and, I thought that was relevant, later, to emotions and war after. I duped the VHS I taped to Dv-r, to keep, for history.
I've always like Search for Spock. I also don't get the criticism of it. Remembering back to it's initial release, I think a lot of fans were pissed off with the destruction of the Enterprise so maybe that's part of it. Also the consensus that the even numbered movies were generally better than the odd numbered one was already established by the time Trek IV came out. The review that I read in our local Chicago paper at the time referenced this idea in the opening lines of it's review of Voyage Home - which got a very positive review. So this idea was already out there back then! I really do hope that you like Voyage Home as much as this one. It's always been my personal favorite. It's also like an extended episode of the series, but not in exactly the same way Trek III is.
After the exciting of the action-oriented WoK, I don't think people we ready for a relationship story. Personal sacrifices for your friend(s). The 2-4 trilogy worked out with different yet entertaining styles of stories...much like the series.
Another great 80s sci-fi role of Christopher Lloyd is John Bigboote in The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension. You guys really have to check out that movie! It’s a lot of fun 😊
When is film was made Christopher Lloyd was most famous for his park on the TV series Taxi where he played a comedy stoner. Many people realized we was the moment he started talking.
You guys do know that actor Mark Lenard was in the Mtion Picture? He played the doomed Captain of the Klingon cruiser, the last one destroyed by V'Ger? He also played the Romulan Bird of Prey commander in the TOS episode Balance of Terror.
Quick fun story about the filming of ST3: There was a fire at Paramount during the 9th day of filming that would have destroyed the set but William Shatner and the gang got together to help keep the fire from reaching the set while the firefighters worked on the larger section of the fire. The investigation afterward said that the fire was deliberate and ST3 was the only film in production at the time but they never found who did it. Here is a short news segment about it: ruclips.net/video/_gXc1PwcQ1g/видео.htmlsi=C3Mo6fEbt9eXfrV6
Lenard Nimoy actually paved the way for Star Trek Actors in crossing over to being a director (s). If you look at his interviews, he will tell you how he negotiated.
I've always loved this film and I think it's the most underrated Trek film. For whatever reason, many Trek fans don't like it. I think it deserves more respect. This film expands the cannon of the Trek world significantly while telling a good story. It may not reach the heights of Wrath of Khan with an extremely memorable villain, but the purpose of this movie isn't to put Kirk and crew up against a big bad villain. The purpose is to show what Kirk and crew are willing to sacrifice for their friend, Spock... and it does that very well.
Loved your intro! You guys are great. While my favorites are 6, 2, and 4 in that order (and very tightly spaced) 3 is just a short step behind. I have always liked it more than the bulk of the fan base did - and I never considered it “bad” in any way. I think you are spot on with your recognition of the positive aspects and I agree with most of the comments you included at the end. Keep up the good work!
Even though I liked The Search for Spock as much as TWOK, the only detriment to me was the change in casting of Saavik. But the one thing I haven't seen or heard a comment on was that Jane Wyatt returned as Amanda, Spock's mother. She, of course, was in Journey to Babel as well as Mark Lenard. To have them both back was remarkable.
Okay I was writing a comment earlier and it disappeared, so trying again. First - I'm glad you enjoyed STSFS. I always love watching this one. Second - I'm contemplating your take on "the needs of the many" quotes. in our culture, a person of good moral character would sacrifice their own personal, "selfish" needs for the many - like a soldier fighting in a war for their country's interests, or astronauts risking space travel to represent their country's progress. But this time in Spock's case, he and Dr. McCoy were in peril. Spock sacrificed his life to save the crew in WOK. Now Kirk was presented with a way to help them both. And all the main characters felt the same, that their careers weren't as important as helping their friend(s). So in some situations, the needs of the few or the one do outweigh the needs of the many. Hopefully that makes sense. Basically you can be a good Samaritan for one person, or for the society at large depending on the situation at the time... Now as for David, he also sacrificed himself to save Savvik and young Spock. The Klingons actually chose Savvik to kill. His character has some importance, and an arc. David was the surprise son of Kirk. He had involvement with the Genesis project, turning out to have caused it to age the planet too fast, which actually helped in the case of Spock since he got back to around the age he was when he died. And then David made the ultimate sacrifice which saved Savvik and Spock. I think David's arc was good.
Hating on David is fine. Especially when Alex really digs into it. It's a scripting thing, not an acting thing. He has been great in other roles (Johnny Slash is the dude... on early 80's TV show Square Pegs). Just make it your thing. Compare him to future characters you don't like. Sybok?
I'm thinking of another future character in particular, but of course I don't want to name him (spoilers). I myself don't dislike the character in question, but nearly everyone else does.
I think the biggest reason people don't celebrate Search For Spock as much as they should is because, of the ten Original Series and Next Generation movies, the most acclaimed and celebrated entries are the single-digit even numbered films. The Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, The Undiscovered Country, and First Contact are almost universally credited as being the best of the classic Star Trek movie series, giving rise to the myth that all of the odd numbered movies are inferior, a myth that in no way applies to the Search For Spock. It's strong on its own plus, given its place as part of what's often referred to as the original Star Trek trilogy, Star Trek III is an important entry in this film franchise.
I personally did not like this one. But, I'm also one of those that wanted them to leave Spock dead. Don't get me wrong, I loved Spock, but if you're gonna have him make the ultimate sacrifice, then make it mean something. Don't undo it. BTW, Lloyd was known for another comedic role at this point in time: Taxi. Also, the "I do not deserve to live" Klingon was John Larroquette, later known for his humorous portrayal of Dan Fielding in Night Court.
From the opening music to the ending credits, " The Voyage Home" is perfection +++. ST3 is good, but to me felt a bit lightweight (story and production), they did their best to squeeze in a quality movie with a lower budget.
I think that bringing back Sarek and bringing back Mark Lenard went hand-in-hand. If they hadn't been specifically able to hire Lenard, they would simply have used the Vulcan woman who performed the ritual as the shrouded figure who walked into Kirk's place. It would still have had enough gravitas to work for the scene, even if it lacked the "IT'S THE GOAT!" reaction. :-) Even at the time, the character of Sarek was so beloved by the fans that recasting him would have been out of the question if the function could have been performed by someone else. BTW, if you like running through the credits, take a look at the name for the kid that Uhura locked in the closet. :-) And I'm sure I'm not alone in looking forward to your reaction to the next movie!
According to the "Wrath of Kahn" novelization Savek is 1/2 Vulcan 1/2 Romulan which explains why Kirstie Allie's slightly more emotional take on the character is more fitting.
I think part of what makes STIII not as well loved as the so-called "even number" movies may have been in part due to the casting of Christopher Lloyd as Kruge. You have to look at it from a contemporary view point. STIII was Lloyd's first big-screen part. Prior to this film he was only known as 'Reverend' Jim in the sitcom Taxi. A lot of people believed he could not act in any other manner than how he acted as Reverend Jim and were either expecting a similar performance as Kruge (Lloyd's use of a similar vocal style in both parts didn't help) or were completely against the actor playing what was essentially a dramatic role. Nearly 40 years later and Lloyd having now played many differing roles including the beloved Doc Brown and the villainous Judge Doom have caused audiences to reassess his performance as Kruge. My favorite part of this film was and remains the 'Stealing the Enterprise' sequence, from the moment Kirk walks into the prison where McCoy is locked up until he tell his crew he intends to recommend them for promotion.
I was around back when these movies 🎬 first came out and I was the tiny few back then who like you guys preferred Star Trek The motion picture & search for Spock
I love it and agree with both of you. I think people were really jacked to have Khan back for the Wrath of Khan and bummed that Spock was not in this movie for the most part but I think it's a better movie. I love TOS and anything with the original cast in any case. Thanks Alex and Josh for your enthusiasm and love of the show and these films.
So, it all really boils down to theme. As in, Wrath of Khan has a very rich theme: It's about how you deal with growing older and becoming more aware of your own mortality. Kirk basically starts the film in denial. Khan represents one potential path: Holding on to your resentments and regrets until you're consumed and ultimately destroyed by them. Spock represents another: Sharing your knowledge and gifts with a younger generation. Focusing less on trying to hang onto youth and revel in past glories, and instead living a life of purpose and leaving behind a valued legacy. His sacrifice shows Kirk the virtues of this approach. By the end of the film, Kirk has lost his friend, but he's gained a family and a renewed sense of purpose. It's a message that gets more powerful as you yourself get older. Part III not only walks back all of these gains, but it doesn't really have much of a theme, other than nothing in the universe matters beyond Spock. Well, if I were more charitable, the theme is that friendship is more important than almost anything - your career, the things in life you cherish most for Kirk the Enterprise), even your own children! It's okay to sacrifice all of them for your B.F.F. It's actually a very unusual and radical message for a Hollywood pic, but it's a pretty shaky philosophy. Parts of the film definitely work well - the theft of the Enterprise, Christopher Lloyd's performance of Krug, Kirk's reaction to David's death. But overall, the whole is less than the sum of the parts here. I still enjoy this film, but it's somewhat of a valley between the two peaks that come before and after it.
Watch our REACTION to Star Trek III: The Search For Spock - ruclips.net/video/uhBmYfJs2Sk/видео.htmlsi=Yz9pn-sR5qB6s9uH
You may not read this entire comment because it's going to be very long. Here's what I believe the difference is between those of us who have been Star Trek fans for many decades and you two who have only experienced Star Trek for a very short time in comparison...
What those of us decades-long fans experienced:
Live action Star Trek had been off the air for over a decade before we saw it again. In that decade, we watched rerun after rerun for an entire decade. To the point that many of us could repeat the dialog verbatim. We went to Star Trek conventions whenever we could. It had been 3 years between the releases of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. It was another 2 years before Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was released. Slightly over 2 years until Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was released. Another 2-1/2 year before Star Trek V: The Final Frontier and finally almost 2-1/2 years until we saw Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. That was a total of over 15 years of Star Trek that we got to experience. We've watched each TOS episode and TOS movie more times that we can recall. For some, the number could easily be in the hundreds (for me, it definitely is since I've watched Star Trek since September 8, 1966).
What you two have experienced (as far as I can tell):
Less than 2 years of Star Trek. You probably haven't watched every single episode multiples of times.
You are, in no way, as invested in Star Trek as those of us who have watched it for (in my case) 57 years. This is not to diminish your opinions. You have every right to feel the way you do about Star Trek. Even if you hated it (which, it's obvious you don't). I think what I'm trying to say is that you haven't had the same length of time that we have had to allow it to sink in. You don't have to wait until the next season airs or wait years for the next film. And for this, I feel a little sorry for you. Because you will never get to experience it as we did.
Unless you watch everything in the real-life timeline order we had to (which seems unlikely), you can never understand what it feels like to have to wait for years for the next iteration of Star Trek. Everything is immediately available to you with a simple click.
The theatrical release of "Star Trek, The Motion Picture" was slow, but the the rest of the movies w/ TOS cast, I remember as all being in the same range of satisfactory. People enjoyed those actors, playing those characters, so the stories didn't necessarily need to stand out from one anither. I think, that's why you don't hear them commented on so much. In fans minds, they're all thrown in with "The Wrath of Khan".
Nimoys direction of 3&4 is one of best things ever to happen to the franchise
Those movies have the most heart. 6 comes close at times.
Yepp :-)
If you grew up watching the TV show "Taxi" you'd have a deeper appreciation of Christopher Lloyd's ability.
@@tvdroid22I love the episode where Jim turns out to be a programming genius when it came to television shows and he makes a huge deal out of what a mistake it was to cancel _Star Trek_ in the 60’s.
A network executive (played by Martin Short, no less) tries to convince Jim to help him while he takes all the credit. The way he gets Jim on board is by telling him "If we had you a few years ago, you could have saved _Star Trek!"_
This episode originally aired 2 or 3 years before Star Trek III came out and considering what Lloyd's involvement with the franchise would be, it tickles me every time I see it.
Because they got the guy who made Wrath of Kahn.@@russellharrell2747
Personally I always interpreted it like this:
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" represents sacrifice and duty as a starfleet officer. The need to sacrifice yourself for the greater good, for the ship.
"The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" represents friendship. The need to sacrifice the greater good for the one person, for a friend.
Duty to starfleet, the ship and the uniform are one side of these characters. Their feelings of friendship for eachother is the other side and completes the circle.
Yes, the entire crew (the many) were willing to destroy their careers and risk their lives for the sake of the one.
The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many is on the face of it, illogical, but it’s a very human response. Spock struggles with this paradox.
@@kurtl8425Especially since that one sacrificed himself to get them out of the blast radius.
They have, at one time or another, put their lives at risk for each other. This time, one of the family had been permanently, they thought, claimed by the Grim Reaper.
Exactly this. The main crew/friends all risked themselves and their careers for Spock.
Beautifully put!
Saw this film opening day and I’ve always loved it. The Enterprise heist is one of my favorite sequences in the entire franchise. Such an underrated film.
"You do this, and you'll never sit in a captain's chair again."
Sits down defiantly
Always liked the exterior shot of the bridge and the lights coming on. It's like they turned on the lights in an empty house during a robbery 😊
My favourite bit is when the enterprise is leaving spacedock I love how Kirk and scotty have a slight panicked face until the doors open and the enterprise misses the doors Kirk slips back into his cool calm demeanour
Every time I watch that scene, I'm on the edge of my seat.
As I've said in other comments, this film is very underrated but perhaps more emotionally satisfying than TWOK so I am glad that you loved it and your reaction validates many of the feelings that I have had about it.
I think this 3 movie stint (Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, and The Voyage Home) are my 3 favorite Star Trek movies. It tells such a fun and gripping story that leaves you satisfied but also wanting more. Like that stage where you're satisfied with a good meal, but also thinking that you want more and could probably eat more. I look forward to how you guys react to the next movie. It's a goofy one.
I think maybe in the years following these, the fans got a bit lazy by saying “odd ones are bad”. This one was great for me in the cinema.
Being the first movie I ever saw in the theater at 6 years old it sure worked for me.
The odd number theory is dumb. TMP is arguably the best ST movie.
Whenever I hear or quote this rhetoric, I always add that III is the exception.
If I recall correctly some commentary by Siskel and Ebert had some part to play in that characterization
I think a lot of people disliked not having Spock in this movie. They missed that he wasn't in it for much of the movie. That's all I can think of. I love it, especially when Spock 2.0 says "Your name is Jim", and the TOS theme music softly starts, as he greets his old shipmates! Having both Sarek and Amanda in this movie was fantastic, yet I wish we could have had a bit more of Amanda. Great movie!
I remember when it came out. We all knew Spock would be back. Everyone was more interested and excited that Nimoy had directed the movie. Which you know kick off a big directing career . Making the biggest movie of the year in 1987.
Amanda is in the next one.
@@reesebn38*one of the biggest movies of the year.
Three Men and a Baby was the 5th top grossing film of 1987 behind Beverly Hills Cop II, Platoon, Fatal Attraction, and The Untouchables.
Also Nimoy is responsible for one of the biggest movie urban legends ever!
@user-rt7vl9ky3r excuse me, I meant to say, "there's not much Spock in this movie". And, yes, I get it, that it's called "The Search for Spock", but I think a lot if "Trek" fans really missed him. Yes, the payoff was wonderful, but I think a lot of people just love the character of Spock so much, that they didn't give this one much of a chance. That's what I meant. It's great, though, and the payoff is fantastic.
You're right. Got it wrong!@@Drawkcabi
Kruge DID have a reason for getting Genesis besides being evil: he considered it a weapon that the Federation would use against the Klingon Empire.
In addition to being a direct weapon, the Federation could have used the Genesis Device to terraform numerous lifeless planets along the Klingon border and use them as bases from which to launch and supply an invasion of the Klingon Empire.
(I'm speaking from the point of view of the Klingons, of course. I doubt the Federation was actually planning this. And Project Genesis proved to be a failure in this regard anyway.)
Am so glad STIII is getting a lot of latter day appreciation - always loved it.
Yes yes yes yes yes!!
Nobody hated ST3 when it first came out, it was Nick Meyer, the director of ST2 & ST6 and producer of ST4, back in the 90’s who started floating the, “I only like the ‘Even’ numbered films and not the ‘Odd’ ones” in interviews with the press and fan club magazines and that’s when some non-Trek fans started hating on ST3 because they weren’t fans, but this film was ALWAYS a good one. In fact I was young when this film first came out, and after seeing it in the theaters, I wanted Star Trek toys to go buy and play with, but unfortunately there were none at all and it would be another 10 years later, long after I had grown up, when they would make them. I always thought that was a missed opportunity.
Kirstie Alley by the time of Search for Spock was on Cheers and had done the "Look who's talking" movie, and when it came time to offer her a contract, Alley's representative dropped a number, and the executives were like " Shatner doesn't even get that much."
LWT didn't come out until 1989 but yes, the money. Alley was initially offered less than for TWOK, she upped her ask from that film due much longer screen-time. The price was more than D. Kelley's salary and they never found a happy medium.
I have always loved 3. It is face paced, story-driven and emotional. The entire cast gets a moment to shine, which is also the case for the next one, which I also love.
Fun Fact: The "I'll kill you later." Klingon was played by John Larroquette of Night Court fame.
The “odd numbers suck,” doesn’t apply to no 3….great job, Spock ❤
You guys are going to love Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. The camera angles, the look and feel of the film, the music, and the callbacks to Star Trek II and Star Trek III really tie a lot of things together. I've noticed that the things you've liked about the first three films are things the 6th does in abundance.
I love your post-reaction reviews! A window into your thoughts and feelings that doesn't always come through in most reaction videos on RUclips. I wish some of the other reaction channels I watch would do something similar.
17:17 - I think this moment you mention was a great callback to Amok Time when McCoy tells Kirk he's jeopardizing himself to violate Starfleet orders in order to help Spock. He replies: "Well I can't let Spock die can I? He's saved my life a dozen times over. Isn't that worth a career?!" Very true to Kirk's character from canon.
Tous pour un, un pour tous (All for one, and one for all) is the motto of The Three Musketeers. It reminds me of the "Needs of the one..." speech.
David's little smirk when Capt Kirk calls out after arriving at the Genesis planet is priceless!!
The Enterprise is actually closer to 40 years old in this movie, but kirk took command of her 20 years prior in TOS. Its a small movie mistake thats always bothered me for some reason. I really like this movie, but Star Trek IV will always be my favorite.
The fact you guys are giving Search for Spock such praise is seriously warming my heart. I remember watching this movie in the theater with my Mom (who actually didn't hate the movie). And I must have rewatched the heck out of this movie.
I saw this on opening day. It's my favorite of the films but I seldom watch it by itself. 2, 3 and 4 together make a perfect watch, in my opinion. I believe Spock would say "Logic dictates the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one, however in my experience humans are often guided by their passions. It is a reminder that, even in the face of illogical choices, the human capacity for compassion, sacrifice, and loyalty can lead to remarkable outcomes. I am fortunate to have such friends."
Can't wait to see your reaction to The Voyage Home. :)
Agreed. This is going to be a lot of fun.
James Horner's music score and the emotion in the film is higher than the others for me. The stealing of the enterprise sequence is the best of the movie franchise for me.
Both James Horner and Jerry Goldsmith bring out exactly how Star Trek should feel. Starting from Goldsmith doing The Motion Picture and Horner Wrath of Khan they started a series of movies where Jerry Goldsmith did the first such as Alien and Horner Aliens. This continued as well with Cocoon and Cocoon The Return. Not entirely sure how that happened but each movie gave the opportunity to put their own spin on how it should feel and it always worked. I believe without these initial sci-fi movies for Horner and how well he knocked them out of the park but also emotionally as well, and if not for working with James Cameron in Aliens he wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to write and compose Titanic as well as collaborate with Celine Dion for My Heart Will Go On. Both Horner and Goldsmith are my favourite sci-fi composers that I used to take out the soundtracks to Star Trek 1, 2 & 3 on LP from the library and listen to them (as well as John Williams Superman etc) over and over. Now they have both left us but left a remarkable body of work am sure we will keep stumbling upon in movies we have yet to see and will be excited to hear it. RIP James Horner and RIP Jerry Goldsmith 🙏
Horner made backing out of a garage one of the most dramatic events in your daily routine.
This movie is a work of art. It always has been and ever shall be, my fave.
De was the star of this movie for sure. I remember when Nichelle died last summer, her "all my hopes" ran through my mind.
I rewatched all of the tos movies a year ago, and i was surprised how much i liked 3 on the rewatch. 1 and 5 too honestly.
Oh, and there is the front end of a Ragnorok easter egg, "What have I done?" because of the hemsworth connection to star trek ktl
Why did people prefer wrath of khan to search for spock? You gave the answer in this video. Search for Spock felt like a big episode of star trek. To us back in the day wrath of khan felt more movie like. I enjoyed both movies but that is why i still give wrath of khan the edge over search for spock.
"I... HAVE HAD... ENOUGH OF YOU!" is one of those movie quotes that my family throws around all the time.
There were a couple thing you said in the reaction video and this video about the Star Trek universe that won't actually end up being true in late movies and shows, but I won't spoil them. It's unfortunate because they happen to be things you like about it, so I hope they won't spoil your appetite.
Reminds me ‘Could… you… NOT!’ which I cannot recall where we picked that up from now but it’s perfect for when my cat is acting up.
While I don’t hate TSFS, it was and is an uneven movie to me. It has some brilliant character moments and the stealing of the Enterprise was and is epic (except for one element). The destruction of the ship was a heartbreaking experience. (Even though the damn studio spoiled it in the trailer!) At the time, all Chris Lloyd was known for was the bizarre stoner Reverend Jim on the TV comedy Taxi. Most fans hated that a comedic actor was cast as the lead Klingon. But he grew on us and we love Kruge now. But there things that still grate for me. The production design money was spent on everything except the Excelsior bridge, which is just comically simple, cheesy, and flimsy looking. The Looney Tunes sound effects when it konks out were also huge eye rollers. And as much as I love Robin Curtis, she was kinda cringe as Saavik. She was very robotic in places. Especially when she announced David’s death. Anyway, I’m glad you guys liked it.
I'm glad you enjoyed Wrath of Kahn Part II. :D
Hello Gents! heres a little behind-the-scenes stuff i read long ago. In the original script, the villains were written and suppose to be Romulan. When they designed the ship, they were designing it as an updated Romulan Bird of Prey (ST: TOS). In fact, the Romulans were suppose to be the main bad guys for the movies. When Kirk tells Savik "The Klingons don't take prisoners", that line was originally "the Romulans dont take prisoners" because it had been established that in the Earth-Romulan war, the enemy took no captives. The studio, however, wasnt as familiar with the Romulans as we are and they demanded the change. As far as Robin Curtis? Yeah, i didnt like the change. Robin played a full Vulcan where Kirsti Allie played a (non-canon) Vulcan-Romulan officer. I preffered "Savik" from 'Wrath of Kahn'. She was alot more complex, i think.
The shot of the Bird of Prey first destroying the USS Grissom shows a very obvious plasma torpedo. Changed later to be a Klingon photon.
In the novelization of the movie, Uhura escapes capture by beaming close to the Vulcan embassy. She barely outraces security and Sarek protects her from arrest. They travel to Vulcan together - the rendezvous point she mentions to Kirk.
Leonard Nimoy and Nichelle Nichols were my favorite two cast members. I can't think of a scene where they were less than perfect. RIP to both.
Part of why ST3 works is , like you say, because everybody gets to shine. Leonard Nimoy apparently paid attention when he worked on Mission:Impossible. It's very evident in ST4.
A little film history trivia: Beginning with this film and continuing into “The Voyage Home,” also directed by Nimoy… For a time, Nimoy became a sought-after director and producer. He directed a number of notable films, including the wildly-popular “Three Men and a Baby.”
Before playing Doc Brown, and before Star Trek three, Christopher Lloyd played Reverend Jim on the television series TAXI.
For people my age that is a classic series, and Reverend Jim was a hilarious character and extremely popular.
John Larroquette is also one of the Klingons in this movie. John Larroquette has won five Emmys for Night Court.
Okey dokey.
I agree, It's everything you want from Star Trek. The enterprise heist is awesome. All the characters had their moments. It had the right amount of comedy, drama, and action. In the commentary Leonard Nimoy said about Christopher Lloyd, that some people didn't think he was right for the part because he was known more for comedy but he wasn't going to typecast someone because he knew what that was like. I'm glad he gave Lloyd the part and he was great with it.
Except Spock is barely in it.
There was some specific reason they couldn't get Bibi Besch (Carol Marcus) back - they couldn't even use her voice-over on the "Genesis" tape so Shatner had to re-do it. (In those days contracts were different; it's not like - say - the MCU where every actor signs something allowing all their footage to be owned forever and forcing them to come back etc.).
I agree that this one is definitely rewatchable. I put Khan ahead of this one simply because of the impact it had on me as a fan after the mixed feelings I had from TMP. Similar to your comments, BOTH Khan and this film had “all the feels” missing from TMP.
I’ll never forget seeing this in theaters. My fiends and I were already huge Trek fans and had Wrath of Khan committed to memory.
We were sitting there… hey that Klingon seems kind familiar… wait, that’s Reverend Jim! (Remember, Back to the Future wouldn’t come out until the following summer. But my friends and I were also huge Taxi fans. What a time to be alive. 55 now.
That lesson, the needs of the many, outweighs the needs of the few, or the one, is a thought I had all throughout my entire life, the beauty of the reversal, that the need of the many, in this case the crew of the enterprise, risk their lives for the need of the few, or the one Spock, is a parallel to what life is all about... The sacrifices we make in life, for either cause, are valid...
As an Original Trekkie ( Night One : The Man Trap ) I Love All the Star Trek Movies! IV, The Voyage Home is near and dear to Trekkie's hearts! It is a Really "Fun" Movie .... And Time Travel !!! I hope you love it as much as I do!
"The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many " for *me* has always been about how, if you're willing to throw away individuals as collateral damage - what are you fighting for? We need to believe that each and every person is worth saving at any cost, or we aren't the Good Guys. While Spock's version is about one's right to sacrifice one's SELF, Kirk's version speaks to society NOT having the right to sacrifice ONE to save itself.
I think maybe some people feel that STIII doesn't quite stand on its own two feet the way STII does. I mean, you could watch STII and get a complete story without watching STIII, while STIII leans heavily on previous knowledg of STII because it's a direct sequel. It's not a judgement on the quality of the film itself.
It's kind of the Empire Strikes Back of Star Trek films.
I saw all six Star Trek films on their opening nights. There's nothing like seeing them with a live audience and hearing their reactions. We didn't know if Leonard Nimoy was going to appear or not that night at the end of TSFS. When he did the whole theater was completely silent to hear his brief conversation with Kirk at the end. I watched the original series for years on TV before the movies ever came out and never imagined how much different it would feel seeing the characters you've grown to admire with other fans in a theater.
Hah, I’m sure there are a few out there like yourselves who loved III, but I don’t know that I’ve personally heard anyone say it’s their favorite, but hey, that’s why I love you guys and the channel.
Even between you guys, you disagree as to whether you preferred Alley or Curtis for Saavik. The beauty of movie and series is that we get to enjoy what we enjoy and like what we like (hello, I am the captain of the USS Obvious). And you guys are frank and honest with that and I appreciate it.
The Search for Spock is my favorite Star Trek movie. The TOS characters are all important to the plot. The pacing is great. Kirk has the best character arc of the other films. Also the story is the most compelling to me. It’s not about defeating the villain. It’s about how much is Kirk and crew willing to sacrifice to save Spock. I’m happy that you guys liked this movie!
Saw ST III in the theater when it first came out. I distinctly recall thinking as I filed out with the rest of the crowd that it would have been a solid entry as a television episode (The direction and much of the production design felt as if it were made for television.), but that, even compared to other science fiction films of the period, it didn't fully embrace cinematic story telling (unlike, e.g. Terminator) nor did the effects measure up (The Empire Strikes Back /Return of the Jedi). I suspect that these aspects were what contributed to the initial consensus for The Search For Spock (i.e. decent, but not clear it was worth the price of a movie ticket). In the present day, these issues become less significant when watching at home (as elements of grandeur are muted for all films) and with the benefit of perspective after the passage of decades from the original release (where the viewer makes allowances for the limited effects technology available at the time).
Trivia time.
The guy who was put in charge of the Enterprise destruction, was chosen specifically because he famously hated the design of the ship.
They knew he would relish making it look as spectacular as possible.
I didn't tell you how much i love it beforehand because I didn't want you expecting too much. I was hoping you'd love it as much as i do, and glad that you do.
Glad you guys liked this one so much. In the 80's and 90's, there was a very loud contingent of people who liked to say that all the even numbered Star Trek films were good and odd numbered ones were bad. I never understood wtf they were smoking. 1 and 3 are great movies. IMO the only bad one is 5, but I've softened on that over the years too.
Leonard Nimoy was an accomplished photographer. Many of his pictures are in black and white so he really knew about light and shadow. The smoky scene on the bridge was a good example of this.
If you guys loved St 3 TSFS you’re going to absolutely love The Voyage Home.
I am super excited to watch your review. It brings me back to when I was a kid and saw these movies in the theater.
Star Trek 4 is the best ending to one of the best movie trilogies ever released in theaters, IMO.
Hurry up and watch it!!!!!
One of the reasons I really like watching your reactions is that it makes me think a bit about how I feel about this episode or that movie. When Search for Spock first came out, we called it "Star Trek 2 1/2" because it didn't feel like a standalone movie. You had to have Star Trek II in order to have III. And that was a lot less common back then. All the Bond movies were pretty standalone, for example.
I remember enjoying the movie, but it didn't have the gut-punch feeling of Spock dying. However, after further review, I think very fondly of the small character moments in Star Trek III. I'm going to have to sit down and rewatch them again with slightly fresher eyes.
You Guys. I'm glad to watch your journey here.
Love this movie and think it highly underrated ....Great Review and you guys are my new fav channel discussing classic Trek lately ...
I think you have to understand the love for Star Trek 2 in the context of the time in which it was made. First of all a lot of Star Trek fans felt that the characters were missing from Star Trek the Motion Pictures and when Star Trek 2 came along they felt like the characters were really back. But secondly and possibly more important, Star Trek from the very beginning was always on the verge of being cancelled. In fact it was canceled after the first season and there was a write in campaign by fans that got it renewed for a second season, and then again at the the end of the second season it was going to be canceled and a write-in campaign got it renewed for a third season. Then there were a lot of rumors that Star Trek would be coming back in the seventies as a television series and that was kind of off and on, so people get their hopes up and then they would be dashed. When Star Trek the motion picture came along and it was only moderately successful again there was a sense that that may be the end of Star Trek. When in Star Trek 2 came along and was he an enormous hit, for the first time it felt like there's a future for Star Trek and they're not just going to cancel it because this is too successful. I think that is part of the reason that fans love that movie so much, its the movie that saved Star Trek. I must add to this that I love Star Trek 3 equally to Star Trek 2. To me they are parts 1 and 2 of the same story, with Star Trek 4 as kind of an epilogue.
Good talk gentlemen.
I suspect that you.will find that the third doesn't get mentioned as people's favorites because it is the bridge to #4.
You guys may or may not have seen four at this point,...so, to avoid the risk of spoiling things, I will say no more.
I would say that the Enterprise wasn't that old considering it was just through a major refit and upgrade 5 years ago. However I guess that Starfleet simply wasn't making Constitution-class ships anymore, and it was so damaged why bother? They have a whole fleet full of Constitution-class that are getting ready for mothballs.
The refit upgrade and upgrade had taken place 13 years previously by the time of Star Trek III.
I... LOVE this movie!!! I saw II & III as a child. I loved the second one. I mean, Mr. Fantasy Island as the bad guy? Awesome!!! The third one came out the year my father passed away, so there is a lot of sentimentality attached to it for me. Spock is probably my favorite character, even though I love the dynamic of the Kirk, Spock, & Bones trio. I love Uhura & Sulu showing their strength, Sarek being an amazing Vulcan, Saavik being a female reflection of Spock (with the appropriate, Vulcan eyebrows this time), Scotty's commitment and love for the Enterprise, Christopher Lloyd as a pretty darn good Klingon (Also John Larroquette played Maltz). Chekov provided a little comic relief towards the end, and it was really cool seeing Vulcan. This one is probably my favorite. I like the fourth one as well, but this one, with the crew disobeying Starfleet to go find their friend: priceless! ❤
The even ones are based on excitement and the odd-numbered ones are based more on character and ethics
🤔😯
I love that film, I don't know why it gets such a bad rap. You've covered so much of what is to appreciate in it, I just want to add one thing that has stuck with me ever since I first saw the film.
The sequence on the little private freighter, the "Merchantman", struck a nerve with me.
I found this glimpse into a bigger world beyond Starfleet unbelievably thrilling, and if I could choose a ship to work on, it would be that ship (sans the destruction, of course).
That was such a rare glimpse into space travel and non-Starfleet ships. We would occasionally see and hear about it in the original series, as with Harry Mudd or Cyrano Jones, but this one was pure magic to me.
It also showed that money is still very much a thing out in the galaxy.
A highly underrated film that I agree feels the most like an episode of the show if made in the 80s. It’s problem is being the film between better regarded films, but I agree there is a lot to love.
How soon until you do The Next Generation? I'm really excited for it! Thanks for letting me relive a journey through Star Trek with fresh eyes, great perspectives!
We start watching it tomorrow! Reactions will start hitting RUclips later this month
@@targetaudienceRemember it's doesn't need to be Kirk vs. Picard, or TOS vs. TNG, in fact it shouldn't be, it can be Kirk + Picard, TOS + TNG. You can have your favorites but you don't need to dismiss others because they are not your favorites, or not among your favorites yet.
Not that you guys would do this, just saying it in case, because back in the 80’s and 90's, it took a lot to turn some old school Trek fans into TNG fans because they felt it was a betrayal to TOS. Finally what many realized is TOS will always be there and their style will always be their style and that worked. Just because TNG has their own style that also woked doesnt mean theirs is better, just that there can be more than one right answer. You can keep loving TOS Trek as it is and then as a bonus get to see TNG have _their_ adventures. Then you get a lot more Trek to enjoy!
Never elimination, only addition! As long as it's done right, not the same, just right, like all due respect paid to what came before and well written stories, then all Trek is good Trek!
One my closest friends, and perhaps an even bigger Trek fan than I am, panned the movie simply because he couldn’t wrap his head around “Reverend Jim from Taxi” playing a Klingon captain.
On Sept’11, 2001, when I was viewing news coverage on tv, changing channels, at one point, ST:3 was one. Kirk kicking Krug off the cliff “I’ve had enough of you!”…and, I thought that was relevant, later, to emotions and war after. I duped the VHS I taped to Dv-r, to keep, for history.
I've always like Search for Spock. I also don't get the criticism of it. Remembering back to it's initial release, I think a lot of fans were pissed off with the destruction of the Enterprise so maybe that's part of it. Also the consensus that the even numbered movies were generally better than the odd numbered one was already established by the time Trek IV came out. The review that I read in our local Chicago paper at the time referenced this idea in the opening lines of it's review of Voyage Home - which got a very positive review. So this idea was already out there back then! I really do hope that you like Voyage Home as much as this one. It's always been my personal favorite. It's also like an extended episode of the series, but not in exactly the same way Trek III is.
After the exciting of the action-oriented WoK, I don't think people we ready for a relationship story. Personal sacrifices for your friend(s). The 2-4 trilogy worked out with different yet entertaining styles of stories...much like the series.
Another great 80s sci-fi role of Christopher Lloyd is John Bigboote in The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension. You guys really have to check out that movie! It’s a lot of fun 😊
Kirsty Alley played Saavik as a half Vulcan / Romulan. Robin Curtis played Saavik as a pure Vulcan
When is film was made Christopher Lloyd was most famous for his park on the TV series Taxi where he played a comedy stoner. Many people realized we was the moment he started talking.
You guys do know that actor Mark Lenard was in the Mtion Picture? He played the doomed Captain of the Klingon cruiser, the last one destroyed by V'Ger? He also played the Romulan Bird of Prey commander in the TOS episode Balance of Terror.
yes thank god, i was surprised how much i liked this movie more than the others after everyone said wrath of khan was 'so amazing'
Quick fun story about the filming of ST3:
There was a fire at Paramount during the 9th day of filming that would have destroyed the set but William Shatner and the gang got together to help keep the fire from reaching the set while the firefighters worked on the larger section of the fire.
The investigation afterward said that the fire was deliberate and ST3 was the only film in production at the time but they never found who did it.
Here is a short news segment about it: ruclips.net/video/_gXc1PwcQ1g/видео.htmlsi=C3Mo6fEbt9eXfrV6
Lenard Nimoy actually paved the way for Star Trek Actors in crossing over to being a director (s). If you look at his interviews, he will tell you how he negotiated.
Love 3. "Why is Scotty wearing that?" Well, in Scotland...
I've always loved this film and I think it's the most underrated Trek film. For whatever reason, many Trek fans don't like it. I think it deserves more respect. This film expands the cannon of the Trek world significantly while telling a good story. It may not reach the heights of Wrath of Khan with an extremely memorable villain, but the purpose of this movie isn't to put Kirk and crew up against a big bad villain. The purpose is to show what Kirk and crew are willing to sacrifice for their friend, Spock... and it does that very well.
YES. Finally, someone who agrees with me.
Loved your intro! You guys are great.
While my favorites are 6, 2, and 4 in that order (and very tightly spaced) 3 is just a short step behind. I have always liked it more than the bulk of the fan base did - and I never considered it “bad” in any way. I think you are spot on with your recognition of the positive aspects and I agree with most of the comments you included at the end.
Keep up the good work!
Even though I liked The Search for Spock as much as TWOK, the only detriment to me was the change in casting of Saavik. But the one thing I haven't seen or heard a comment on was that Jane Wyatt returned as Amanda, Spock's mother. She, of course, was in Journey to Babel as well as Mark Lenard. To have them both back was remarkable.
Growing up, Search for Spock was 100% my favorite. 2-4 is my TOS film trilogy.
Okay I was writing a comment earlier and it disappeared, so trying again. First - I'm glad you enjoyed STSFS. I always love watching this one. Second - I'm contemplating your take on "the needs of the many" quotes. in our culture, a person of good moral character would sacrifice their own personal, "selfish" needs for the many - like a soldier fighting in a war for their country's interests, or astronauts risking space travel to represent their country's progress. But this time in Spock's case, he and Dr. McCoy were in peril. Spock sacrificed his life to save the crew in WOK. Now Kirk was presented with a way to help them both. And all the main characters felt the same, that their careers weren't as important as helping their friend(s). So in some situations, the needs of the few or the one do outweigh the needs of the many. Hopefully that makes sense. Basically you can be a good Samaritan for one person, or for the society at large depending on the situation at the time... Now as for David, he also sacrificed himself to save Savvik and young Spock. The Klingons actually chose Savvik to kill. His character has some importance, and an arc. David was the surprise son of Kirk. He had involvement with the Genesis project, turning out to have caused it to age the planet too fast, which actually helped in the case of Spock since he got back to around the age he was when he died. And then David made the ultimate sacrifice which saved Savvik and Spock. I think David's arc was good.
Hating on David is fine. Especially when Alex really digs into it. It's a scripting thing, not an acting thing. He has been great in other roles (Johnny Slash is the dude... on early 80's TV show Square Pegs). Just make it your thing. Compare him to future characters you don't like. Sybok?
I'm thinking of another future character in particular, but of course I don't want to name him (spoilers). I myself don't dislike the character in question, but nearly everyone else does.
I loved Square Pegs when I was a teen!
I think the biggest reason people don't celebrate Search For Spock as much as they should is because, of the ten Original Series and Next Generation movies, the most acclaimed and celebrated entries are the single-digit even numbered films. The Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, The Undiscovered Country, and First Contact are almost universally credited as being the best of the classic Star Trek movie series, giving rise to the myth that all of the odd numbered movies are inferior, a myth that in no way applies to the Search For Spock. It's strong on its own plus, given its place as part of what's often referred to as the original Star Trek trilogy, Star Trek III is an important entry in this film franchise.
I’ve always enjoyed this movie. Always. And I always will.
I personally did not like this one. But, I'm also one of those that wanted them to leave Spock dead. Don't get me wrong, I loved Spock, but if you're gonna have him make the ultimate sacrifice, then make it mean something. Don't undo it.
BTW, Lloyd was known for another comedic role at this point in time: Taxi. Also, the "I do not deserve to live" Klingon was John Larroquette, later known for his humorous portrayal of Dan Fielding in Night Court.
Yes, but I will still know him as Lionel Tribby from The West Wing. Very short stint, but very intense as a character.
From the opening music to the ending credits, " The Voyage Home" is perfection +++. ST3 is good, but to me felt a bit lightweight (story and production), they did their best to squeeze in a quality movie with a lower budget.
I think that bringing back Sarek and bringing back Mark Lenard went hand-in-hand. If they hadn't been specifically able to hire Lenard, they would simply have used the Vulcan woman who performed the ritual as the shrouded figure who walked into Kirk's place. It would still have had enough gravitas to work for the scene, even if it lacked the "IT'S THE GOAT!" reaction. :-) Even at the time, the character of Sarek was so beloved by the fans that recasting him would have been out of the question if the function could have been performed by someone else.
BTW, if you like running through the credits, take a look at the name for the kid that Uhura locked in the closet. :-)
And I'm sure I'm not alone in looking forward to your reaction to the next movie!
According to the "Wrath of Kahn" novelization Savek is 1/2 Vulcan 1/2 Romulan which explains why Kirstie Allie's slightly more emotional take on the character is more fitting.
Loved ST II when I first saw it but have rarely re-watched it. But I still really enjoy III.
I think part of what makes STIII not as well loved as the so-called "even number" movies may have been in part due to the casting of Christopher Lloyd as Kruge. You have to look at it from a contemporary view point. STIII was Lloyd's first big-screen part. Prior to this film he was only known as 'Reverend' Jim in the sitcom Taxi. A lot of people believed he could not act in any other manner than how he acted as Reverend Jim and were either expecting a similar performance as Kruge (Lloyd's use of a similar vocal style in both parts didn't help) or were completely against the actor playing what was essentially a dramatic role. Nearly 40 years later and Lloyd having now played many differing roles including the beloved Doc Brown and the villainous Judge Doom have caused audiences to reassess his performance as Kruge.
My favorite part of this film was and remains the 'Stealing the Enterprise' sequence, from the moment Kirk walks into the prison where McCoy is locked up until he tell his crew he intends to recommend them for promotion.
Protomatter… LOL
The term for this dialogue is called Technobabble. As you get into TNG you’ll see it used very often.
3 and 6 are my favorite Star Trek films, even over the Next Generation ones.
I was around back when these movies 🎬 first came out and I was the tiny few back then who like you guys preferred Star Trek The motion picture & search for Spock
I love it and agree with both of you. I think people were really jacked to have Khan back for the Wrath of Khan and bummed that Spock was not in this movie for the most part but I think it's a better movie. I love TOS and anything with the original cast in any case. Thanks Alex and Josh for your enthusiasm and love of the show and these films.
I can hardly wait to see your reaction to the next one.
So, it all really boils down to theme. As in, Wrath of Khan has a very rich theme: It's about how you deal with growing older and becoming more aware of your own mortality. Kirk basically starts the film in denial. Khan represents one potential path: Holding on to your resentments and regrets until you're consumed and ultimately destroyed by them. Spock represents another: Sharing your knowledge and gifts with a younger generation. Focusing less on trying to hang onto youth and revel in past glories, and instead living a life of purpose and leaving behind a valued legacy. His sacrifice shows Kirk the virtues of this approach. By the end of the film, Kirk has lost his friend, but he's gained a family and a renewed sense of purpose. It's a message that gets more powerful as you yourself get older.
Part III not only walks back all of these gains, but it doesn't really have much of a theme, other than nothing in the universe matters beyond Spock. Well, if I were more charitable, the theme is that friendship is more important than almost anything - your career, the things in life you cherish most for Kirk the Enterprise), even your own children! It's okay to sacrifice all of them for your B.F.F. It's actually a very unusual and radical message for a Hollywood pic, but it's a pretty shaky philosophy. Parts of the film definitely work well - the theft of the Enterprise, Christopher Lloyd's performance of Krug, Kirk's reaction to David's death. But overall, the whole is less than the sum of the parts here. I still enjoy this film, but it's somewhat of a valley between the two peaks that come before and after it.
This is my second favourite movie... the one you are about to watch, "The Journey Home", is my favourite.