Pretty please do a Vampire Counts One Year After video. In the meantime I will enjoy watching this as I'm building my Warriors Of Chaos army. Also 18:17 are those kitbashed / converted 'Forsaken' or are they originals ? you can't buy them from GW right ?
I think the main things that hold the Hell Cannon back is that it basically has two chances a turn of misfiring and with partial hits its template is too small for what it does and the points cost. I think it also suffers from GW overestimating the “effectiveness” of it as a war machine that can fight like a monster or a monster that can shoot like a war machine. I think GW thinks that makes the HC doubly effective when in reality you typically want a unit that does one of those things full-a$$ed rather than both of those things half-a$$ed. But that’s been every edition of WHFB when it comes to the HC. Which is frustrating, as it’s a beautiful model that’s held back by GW clinging to the lore concept rather than focusing on the rules first.
>that’s held back by GW clinging to the lore concept rather than focusing on the rules first. Focusing on the "rules first" is what gave us abominations such as AoS and new 40k. Focusing on the lore concept is exactly the right way to go.
@ lol, and lore first is how Primaris got made - because the Marine models need to look the 8-9ft tall the lore says they are rather than the old models that were basically the same size as mortal humans. Either extreme is kneejerk and stupid. Common sense should be used, in this case to give the Hellcannon a workable set of rules by not trying to make it fit the background while kneecapping it because the background would make it too powerful if it was the greater daemon with a cannon strapped to its back equivalent that its lore makes it out to be.
@@MasterShake9000 What? No. Pr*maris were made to sell marine players their armies again and to have the game be more streamlined due to the mono weapon loadouts. Not because anybody thought that they would be a cool idea lore wise.
WoC hace a great list but for me the biggest issue is the actual Chaos Warriors are kind of underwhelming. Not bad, just boring, the marks are very eh and they just kind of lack a few things. Id pay more points for more interesting basic chaos warriors.
The problem with chaos warriors is they are the middle infantry unit of the army. Below you have marauder, above you have chosen (and this unit is the same but better chaos warriors) and forsaken. And the middle infantry of armies have the problem that is not necesary. At 2000p with 3 infantry units is more than necesary (if the infantry were good) 1 or 2 from the elite and 1 or 2 of the cheap infantry.
I think if infantry were worth putting points into, then they could be decent. The problem is that if you are taking infantry because they are a tax and more bodies are worth more since you aren't expecting anything out of them anyways.....
@@corsariosandrorect5238to be honest this an edition issue not a WoC issue. Cheap infantry can be used, super pumped up elites with character / magic support has play, but core infantry bricks just suck.
I think Heralds have a bit more play - chosen chariots in particular are *spicy* with characters on top. Ed from Close Order’s having some fun with them.
I would imagine so. A character on a chariot is already quite strong with mobility, impact hits, 3+armor, and 4 extra wounds. Adding onto that the charioteers being chosen instead of just chaos warriors makes for a very scary model indeed.
I think the issue with the Hell Cannon is that it just costs too many points. I see it as a double cost trebucket that does 1 less damage to the primary target and which can't be killed by warmachine hunters. It isn't worth the cost.
The dumbest thing I've done with a Daemon Prince is turned him into 'and I started blasting' artillery piece, wherein he has the ability to fire off FOUR magic missiles. 2 from split lores, 1 from blue fire, and 1 from the RRR. It's not super sweaty as he turns into just a gunman with four shots with zero buffing support, but it's so dumb.
I’m planning on making a Warriors of Chaos army, but I’m struggling with choosing a theme. Either I’ll do a Tzeentch army led by the Curseling. Or Khorne led by the new Daemon Prince, but I reckon the lack of magic (Besides Brazen Collar) and Frenzy would leave the force rather useless. Anyone with any experiance with these?
Thanks for the review! I think WoC is probably the best designed list this edition. Everything just works well in its role mechanically and thematically.
I think the hell cannon is like many artillery pieces, it is great if you have an engineer to baby sit it, much less so if you don't. The exception to this rule is greenskins as their artilley is just so incredibly cheap it doesn't need to be reliable, and even so the doom diver is one of the more reliable stone throwers. I think Hell cannons would be awesome in chorfs. A strength 10 stonethrower is nothing to sneeze at and being a monster you don't have to invest as much in protecting it. The extra misfire chance is not great but ai'd say the pros outweight the cons if you habe that extra bit orlf reliability. Unfortunately in warriors of chaos, that isn't an option.
Mark of slaanesh pairs so well with the enchanting aura though. Without it, you hit simultaneously with those 3 attack dragon princes, and probably lose a bunch of chosen. With mark of slaanesh, you hit first and those 3 attack dragon princes much not even get to fight back. Is it the strongest? No. But I would argue it is definitely better than the mark of nurgle. I do love my infantry too. Chosen are great. But the warrioers I have found are tough to make work. Only having heavy armor as opposed to full plate makes a world of difference. They just don't have the staying power they need as a reasonably expensive infantry.
Doesn’t the hell canon use the LD of the dwarfs not the actual canon when it wants to fire ? I’m not a chaos player my friend who plays them is and I wanna get him the hell canon model coz its awesome looking but the rule for roll leadership before it fires is the problem the dwarf handler is Ld 9 and the canon is Ld 5
I see Mark of Slaanesh being useful on only 3 occasions: 1- Marauder Horsemen in little groups as skirmishing screeners, they won't panic after being almost wiped out, initiative can help if fighting elves 2- Block of Warriors/Chosen with great weapon and a character with Enchanting Aura, so they can stike first with great weapons on a charge or use the hand weapons if charged (initative 5 on both situations while the enemy has strike last, only Strike First things can remedy that, but still get outstriked if charged and the Slaaneshites decide to use hand weapons) 3- On a Daemon Prince, so they can get to 11 initiative on a charge and outstrike Strike First enemy lords. Pretty useless because DPs suck and you can do the same and better with any other mark if you pick a runesword or daemonic platemail
@@ToAqui210 They can't match Elves as they have I5 and plus 1I in the first round but they do strike before Blood Knights and Demigryph Knights as they only have I4.
They struggle with internal balance, I feel. They're a great army but their roster has so many clear winners and losers that there can be no arguments about what to take and what not to which I find quite a little dull especially when the iconic and much loved Chaos Warriors that every WoC player WANTS to field are clear losers.
I used to think it was crazy to not take Warriors. Now I think Marauders are better for line units. Forsaken of Khorne are a favorite. Chosen of Slaanesh with great weapons, and the aura is awesome.
I think he was not focused enough or something.... But chaos warriors are the complete opposite of what he sayd in form of no output and few attacks. I play a hit squad of 10 in almost every game. Makes them khorn and give em 2 hand weapons..... That makes 3 attacks per model WS 5, S4 and AP1 for 20 points. That's NUTS.
@@MountainMiniatures well, even without ap1. thats still 3 attacks, WS5, S4, I4 for 20 points. or you play them with 2 attacks ap1 and a shield. or 2 attacks with a halberd S5 ap1. or 2 attacks S6 with ap 2 with great weapons. no matter how you do it, they certainly dont have a problem with the number of attacks!!!!!
Imagined being so triggered by diversity in your minis that you’re either of these two clowns above having mantrums about not being sexually attracted to a piece of resin 🤡
@@malekiththeeternityking5433 Imagine being so triggered by your minis not catering to your fragile masculinity that you’re whining about them not being hot women.
The most upset thing in WoC army is how GW low down chosen warriors on foot. They are too bad for their point cost, warriors upset me too, but not so much. They extremely need full plate. All other sides of their army are very good, army box is the best but miniatures release is stupid. GW give us new units of marauders, but didn't give models.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Loving these ‘one year on’ video’s, excellent work sir!
Agreed, is an excellent series idea.
Pretty please do a Vampire Counts One Year After video. In the meantime I will enjoy watching this as I'm building my Warriors Of Chaos army. Also 18:17 are those kitbashed / converted 'Forsaken' or are they originals ? you can't buy them from GW right ?
My son is starting his first Warhammer army, either Warriors of Choas or Orcs and Goblins, these videos have been extremely helpful cheers Steve 🙏👍
Lads, where’s Bretonnia? The lady weeps!
I think the main things that hold the Hell Cannon back is that it basically has two chances a turn of misfiring and with partial hits its template is too small for what it does and the points cost.
I think it also suffers from GW overestimating the “effectiveness” of it as a war machine that can fight like a monster or a monster that can shoot like a war machine. I think GW thinks that makes the HC doubly effective when in reality you typically want a unit that does one of those things full-a$$ed rather than both of those things half-a$$ed. But that’s been every edition of WHFB when it comes to the HC.
Which is frustrating, as it’s a beautiful model that’s held back by GW clinging to the lore concept rather than focusing on the rules first.
then they released the warpfire dragon in the aj, that is both a monster, artillery, wizard and ward save disabler
>that’s held back by GW clinging to the lore concept rather than focusing on the rules first.
Focusing on the "rules first" is what gave us abominations such as AoS and new 40k. Focusing on the lore concept is exactly the right way to go.
@ lol, and lore first is how Primaris got made - because the Marine models need to look the 8-9ft tall the lore says they are rather than the old models that were basically the same size as mortal humans.
Either extreme is kneejerk and stupid. Common sense should be used, in this case to give the Hellcannon a workable set of rules by not trying to make it fit the background while kneecapping it because the background would make it too powerful if it was the greater daemon with a cannon strapped to its back equivalent that its lore makes it out to be.
@@MasterShake9000 What? No. Pr*maris were made to sell marine players their armies again and to have the game be more streamlined due to the mono weapon loadouts. Not because anybody thought that they would be a cool idea lore wise.
WoC hace a great list but for me the biggest issue is the actual Chaos Warriors are kind of underwhelming. Not bad, just boring, the marks are very eh and they just kind of lack a few things. Id pay more points for more interesting basic chaos warriors.
The problem with chaos warriors is they are the middle infantry unit of the army. Below you have marauder, above you have chosen (and this unit is the same but better chaos warriors) and forsaken. And the middle infantry of armies have the problem that is not necesary.
At 2000p with 3 infantry units is more than necesary (if the infantry were good) 1 or 2 from the elite and 1 or 2 of the cheap infantry.
I think if infantry were worth putting points into, then they could be decent. The problem is that if you are taking infantry because they are a tax and more bodies are worth more since you aren't expecting anything out of them anyways.....
@@cp1cupcakeyeah the bigger problem is that infantry need a reason to exist and they just don't have it with a few niche exceptions
I use mark of nurgle it’s actually op
@@corsariosandrorect5238to be honest this an edition issue not a WoC issue. Cheap infantry can be used, super pumped up elites with character / magic support has play, but core infantry bricks just suck.
Hellcanon has D3 wounds on all hits not only on center one ;)
I think Heralds have a bit more play - chosen chariots in particular are *spicy* with characters on top. Ed from Close Order’s having some fun with them.
I would imagine so. A character on a chariot is already quite strong with mobility, impact hits, 3+armor, and 4 extra wounds. Adding onto that the charioteers being chosen instead of just chaos warriors makes for a very scary model indeed.
I think the issue with the Hell Cannon is that it just costs too many points. I see it as a double cost trebucket that does 1 less damage to the primary target and which can't be killed by warmachine hunters. It isn't worth the cost.
The dumbest thing I've done with a Daemon Prince is turned him into 'and I started blasting' artillery piece, wherein he has the ability to fire off FOUR magic missiles. 2 from split lores, 1 from blue fire, and 1 from the RRR. It's not super sweaty as he turns into just a gunman with four shots with zero buffing support, but it's so dumb.
I’m planning on making a Warriors of Chaos army, but I’m struggling with choosing a theme.
Either I’ll do a Tzeentch army led by the Curseling.
Or Khorne led by the new Daemon Prince, but I reckon the lack of magic (Besides Brazen Collar) and Frenzy would leave the force rather useless.
Anyone with any experiance with these?
Thanks for the review! I think WoC is probably the best designed list this edition. Everything just works well in its role mechanically and thematically.
I think the hell cannon is like many artillery pieces, it is great if you have an engineer to baby sit it, much less so if you don't. The exception to this rule is greenskins as their artilley is just so incredibly cheap it doesn't need to be reliable, and even so the doom diver is one of the more reliable stone throwers. I think Hell cannons would be awesome in chorfs. A strength 10 stonethrower is nothing to sneeze at and being a monster you don't have to invest as much in protecting it. The extra misfire chance is not great but ai'd say the pros outweight the cons if you habe that extra bit orlf reliability. Unfortunately in warriors of chaos, that isn't an option.
Mark of slaanesh pairs so well with the enchanting aura though. Without it, you hit simultaneously with those 3 attack dragon princes, and probably lose a bunch of chosen. With mark of slaanesh, you hit first and those 3 attack dragon princes much not even get to fight back. Is it the strongest? No. But I would argue it is definitely better than the mark of nurgle.
I do love my infantry too. Chosen are great. But the warrioers I have found are tough to make work. Only having heavy armor as opposed to full plate makes a world of difference. They just don't have the staying power they need as a reasonably expensive infantry.
5:22 how exactly is that chaos warrior musician playing that horn?
The same way a tomb king skeleton warrior blows the horn.
what is that model you have on the dragon?
Doesn’t the hell canon use the LD of the dwarfs not the actual canon when it wants to fire ? I’m not a chaos player my friend who plays them is and I wanna get him the hell canon model coz its awesome looking but the rule for roll leadership before it fires is the problem the dwarf handler is Ld 9 and the canon is Ld 5
@@evilmrmole3747 you use ld9 until all the dwarfs are dead then you use the ld5
I run 3 units of 12 forsaken of Slaanesh and they work really well
I see Mark of Slaanesh being useful on only 3 occasions:
1- Marauder Horsemen in little groups as skirmishing screeners, they won't panic after being almost wiped out, initiative can help if fighting elves
2- Block of Warriors/Chosen with great weapon and a character with Enchanting Aura, so they can stike first with great weapons on a charge or use the hand weapons if charged (initative 5 on both situations while the enemy has strike last, only Strike First things can remedy that, but still get outstriked if charged and the Slaaneshites decide to use hand weapons)
3- On a Daemon Prince, so they can get to 11 initiative on a charge and outstrike Strike First enemy lords. Pretty useless because DPs suck and you can do the same and better with any other mark if you pick a runesword or daemonic platemail
Chosen Chaos Knights of Slaanesh
@@grlmgor yeah that too, so they can get +1 initiative on a counter charge to match blood knights and dragon princes. Chosen chariots too
@@ToAqui210 They can't match Elves as they have I5 and plus 1I in the first round but they do strike before Blood Knights and Demigryph Knights as they only have I4.
Gunna do this for Brettonnians at some point?
@@ScilentDeath I have to redo it. The video was corrupt.
Sadly, the hellcannon, for the cost, i feel it's the worst rare :c
Awesome
Do a battle report with 2 Hell Cannons!
IT'S MA'AM
Please do Vampire counts next!
Don’t beat yourself up. You clearly *meant* Forsaken by Slaanesh.
Chosen Chaos Knights of Slaanesh are great if you don't have a character with Enchanting Aura.
They struggle with internal balance, I feel. They're a great army but their roster has so many clear winners and losers that there can be no arguments about what to take and what not to which I find quite a little dull especially when the iconic and much loved Chaos Warriors that every WoC player WANTS to field are clear losers.
Need to take a leadership test at the start of the turn so 2 chances to miss fire
I used to think it was crazy to not take Warriors. Now I think Marauders are better for line units. Forsaken of Khorne are a favorite. Chosen of Slaanesh with great weapons, and the aura is awesome.
Please do a Dark elf one year review
Orcs can play down if you use Orc Boyz lol
Puppet seemed too good to me for the points when I played against it. Completely shut me down on offense.
Puppet is too strong for its cost, and quite oppressive since it is difficult to interact with. One of the best, if not the best item in the game
I think he was not focused enough or something....
But chaos warriors are the complete opposite of what he sayd in form of no output and few attacks.
I play a hit squad of 10 in almost every game.
Makes them khorn and give em 2 hand weapons.....
That makes 3 attacks per model WS 5, S4 and AP1 for 20 points.
That's NUTS.
@@Pophet84 are are not ap1. When you have 2 hand weapons you can’t use the ensorcelled weapons rule.
@@MountainMiniatures well, even without ap1.
thats still 3 attacks, WS5, S4, I4 for 20 points.
or you play them with 2 attacks ap1 and a shield.
or 2 attacks with a halberd S5 ap1.
or 2 attacks S6 with ap 2 with great weapons.
no matter how you do it, they certainly dont have a problem with the number of attacks!!!!!
Them making the "Bringer of the End Times."
A woman that looks overweight and clownish was really a funny decisions
Oddly appropriate considering what made me quit buying GW branded goods and media.
Imagined being so triggered by diversity in your minis that you’re either of these two clowns above having mantrums about not being sexually attracted to a piece of resin 🤡
Wild opinion
@@malekiththeeternityking5433 Imagine being so triggered by your minis not catering to your fragile masculinity that you’re whining about them not being hot women.
@@Yurt_enthusiast7Whats wild about that? Sorry the Everchosen is supposed to be intimidating, not look like a Lunch Lady at an elementary school
The most upset thing in WoC army is how GW low down chosen warriors on foot. They are too bad for their point cost, warriors upset me too, but not so much. They extremely need full plate. All other sides of their army are very good, army box is the best but miniatures release is stupid. GW give us new units of marauders, but didn't give models.