Stand off / Outboard injection - Fuel injector location dyno tested
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Test engine spec:
Modified smallport head w/ oversized valves
kelford beehive valve springs
shimless buckets
oversize toda pistons (1627cc)
bc rods
approx 12.5:1 compression
arp hardware throughout
toda oil pump gears
toda 3.7kg flywheel
52mm itb's
Garage4age Header and 3" exhaust
Link g4 ecu
Kelford 304/300 camshafts + VVTi
Would anyone like to see an injector timing specific video? when the injectors are in normal location close to the head, they respond quite a bit different to what is seen here. I didn't want to go into it too much in this vid. as already a lot going on.
Everything you do will be welcome. Don't worry about too much info, just send 🌝
Would love to see it.
Yes please!
Hell, if you could throw in a "batch fire" test, it would be interesting too.
Stock ECU does a batch fire (1 and 3, then 360 degrees later, 2 and 4) so it could be a good comparison Vrs full sequential.
Absolutely 💯
Yes please
This has to be the most dynoed machine on the planet. Learning so much. My mate had a corolla hatch with a 4age+t in it but that was when we were just kids 15 or so yr ago. Prob only had 195s on the front and broke up until 4th but would beat our "rich" mates dad in his then new devil yellow GTS monaro lol.
hah, nothing like beating fancy cars in ya crappy old toyota. starlet has over 1400 dyno runs now.
@@Garage4age insane! Goes to show how well she's built. Appreciate the time invested and the willingness to share everything you've learnt along the way.
@@Garage4age that's an insane number of dyno runs my friend, you can run for the World recond if exist any (well, you can create it, hahahaaa), you deserve it.
I have a TU5J4 engine, 1600 16v also highly developed and has had hundreds and hundreds of runs on our dyno
215bhp 150lbft 1597cc 8400rpm
We gained a shit load of torque by having 15 deg less duration on exhaust cam
@@mattyoung4639 we too play with peugeots 1.6 16V engines, our clients race those engines on peugeots 106 and citroen saxo in italian hillclimb, a great engine, we too obtained about 210 to 220hp (crank) from them. I think those engines have big potential to go up in rpms because they have a short stroke, but rarely seen go over 8700rpm, maybe some work is required in the head.
I'm seeing how the difference of the outer vs inner placement of the injectors is effecting your curve. The outer injectors allows greater atomizing time of the fuel in relation to how the intake pulse rebounds off the intake valve when it closes. Very similar to the results of when you change the runner length. Now do a setup with dual injectors; Inboard for idle to 6,000 and outboard injectors for 6,000- 9,500.
I find this quite interesting. The outboard injection I played with on motorbike engines used injectors with a very narrow spray pattern and mounted them quite a distance from the bell mouth. The outboard injectors were only used at high rpm high load, the port injection was used for everything else. You don't have the space to do anything like that though. I also wasn't a huge fan of how the intake track would catch on fire if there was a backfire and have flames licking at the high pressure fuel rail mounted above it. Felt kind of sketchy.
i think the effective intake length is effected only slightly by the increased density of air and fuel.
improved air and fuel homogenisation is likely what helps power more.
i'd guess you might be able to tweak spark timing a very tiny bit with the outboard injectors, or increase coil strength/voltage
Probably slightly better intake air cooling too.
The better atomisation of the fuel on the high rpm, should also help to keep the burning temperatur lower then with the normal setup, because more fuel can vaporise(vaporization cools). This should also mean that you could advance the timing a little more, because the knock probability goes down, in theorie, which would mean a little bit more power again on the high side.
But just Theoretically 😂
Here's my theory. Outer injectors are generally associated with high rpm engines.
But the necessity for this comes from two things.
At 10k+ rpm, there really isnt enough time for air and fuel to mix.
But more importantly, engines that can do 10k+ RPM usually have a long rod/stroke ratio, and a wide bore with short stroke. Which I believe gives considerably worse air/fuel mix than motors designed for lower rpm that will have a square or long bore/stroke ratio.
So mixing in the intake makes up for the lack of mixing available from tumble etc inside the cylinder.
On my 1NZ motor, I can have the injectors right by the port, or right outside of the trumpets, and the air/fuel ratio stays identical, even idles fine.
I think because the motor naturally mixes air/fuel well, regardless of where it's coming from.
I believe that the gains are derived from 2 main things. 1). The latent heat of vaporization of the fuel. As the fuel vaporizes, it pulls heat from the air and creates a more dense charge. The further away from the intake valve, the better the effect. This is why this setup works really well with alcohol fuels (E85 and methanol), as their latent heat of vaporization is much greater than gasoline. 2). The additional mass added to the air charge helps keep the air moving as the valve closes, yielding a better overall volumetric efficiency. I would be very curious to see a dual injection setup where the fuel is supplied by the inner injectors, they phased to the outer throughout the peak torque range, then phased back to the inner injectors above peak torque. This is how the motorcycle manufactures do it, but those engines rev much higher. I would also like to see this test done without the shorter runners, but I'm not sure you have enough room with the current setup.
The difference is usually more evident on hot days. The injector setup outside the ports cools the intake charge more. Even so it is usually small gains. But on hot days that can make all the difference.
Dude. You have some really interesting stuff. These tests and theories are what makes the difference. Also, your setup looks fantastic!!
Outboard injectors are generally only used for higher revving engines, allowing more time for a good mixture. On many rally engines you run two sets of injectors, one at the back of the valves for low rpm, blending to the outer set at higher rpm. A company I used to work for did a test about 20yrs ago, engine on dyno, guy in the cell holding the fuel rail and walking backwards from the engine. Power increased the further away he got. Fun test but obviously practical limits to that. As you've seen, things like this, runner length and injector timing are all nth degree stuff but they all add up. Most people that tune engines on standalone don't bother with it but people who specialise in a particular engine will generally have been through all this kinda thing to make theirs the best. Anyway, good work, nice to see proper vids on RUclips!
How high is 'high revving' he just ran that engine out to 9750rpm
el video que nadie pidio pero todos nesecitabamos, es muy interesante tu canal de RUclips, saludos desde argentina
Curious about the Injector orifice design and testing eg: Single outlet (old) VS multiple smaller ones (new).
I know they help idle quality but more thinking atomisation and then maybe trying way upping the fuel pressure with the newer injector type.
This was a cool test anyway, reminds me of tuning RAM timings in a PC for some reason too. Glad you got some decent gains, especially down low.
they are bosch ev14 980cc. they are 7 or 5 hole from memory. so yeh new style injectors
@@Garage4age If you're well insured and have a couple fire extinguishers nearby, i think we'd all love to see HOT fuel at stupid high kPa/ PSI/ Bar, if you're keen. Old F1 trick, not that F1 translates to road usage...
A timed injection with such a large injector that it's only running 40% duty cycle isn't taking full advantage of the atomization time the longer distance affords....might see different results with a constant injection which will fill the runner better and might/should atomize better. And I believe that 10K rpm is about where the benefits of the longer injection distance begins to show benefits vs injecting right at the back of the valve. F1 motors that spun to 18K liked the injectors at the stack mouth but that kind of rpm is beyond what that Toyota will deliver so this also is muddying the results.
Spinning it high enough to really show an advantage is not possible...but running the injectors like they're a CIS might offer some benefit. Good testing! Always enjoy your videos when you post them!
If you have a lower duty cycle, spraying more fuel earlier. Then ALL of the fuel gets closer to the same amount of time to evaporate. If you have a high duty cycle, some of it will have had 90% evaporation time and some 10% evaporation time (or whatever)
Granted a very different spec engine and very different intake.
The Atlantic/hallselgreen setups run at 720deg for the best mix of throttle response and power.
Ducati used to fit one set of right near the valves, one further out spraying the trumpets, gave the best of both worlds… loads of cars run direct injectors in the head and a set of port injectors now too, but that’s primarily due to warranty claims from the back of valves getting caked in PCV grime.
I think that 4age's are cool
I do aswell Mr. Beer
I’ve been hearing on the interwebs, that aiming a much bigger then normal injector at the back of the valve when it’s open has the most gain outside of direct injection. Something to do with better atomisation of the fuel and less condensate forming on the intake runner walls.
Going by the runs you made, it looks like the outboard injection had better HP up top while the normal location had better torque down low. Only marginally though.
It could be an idea to run both if your computer can handle it
Interestingly on a similar effect. I have noticed on my car when "upgrading" to the newer EV6? design over the older large body EV1 type, that starting, idle quality are worse and economy is marginally worse even with full injector characterizing and corrected AFRs. I think it might be because the older injectors are like fire hoses and inject straight on to the back of the valve where as the newer type is a fine mist and wider cone patterns. So being batch fire I recon the newer injectors despite being more atomized is just wetting the walls more than the old type which hits majority of its fuel on the back of the valve.
To your question - Yes, the evaporative cooling is altering the speed of sound.
Adding fuel vapour will also alter the speed of sound even without evaporative cooling. Higher mean molar mass of the gases = lower speed of sound at a given temperature.
Hi sr! You can test use both injectors, outboard and standart, but can balance the flow about the RPM, because looks that outboard location of injectors is better for some rpm range and standart for other. If possible water or ethanol injection too, as extra supply fuel.
next video. soft-hard valve spring and other video light flywheel dyno diff or lightening some thing and dyno
You may need injectors designed to be placed over the velocity stacks to get the best out of this mod. The spray pattern is quite different from those running below the throttle plates.
I've got inner and outer injectors from an S1000RR bike. The spray pattern is wide angle, 4 hole for both sets. The outer injectors are mounted so far above trumpets its crazy, it must just mist the whole airbox.
the fuel injector spray will be effecting the resonating air movement in the runner, with the external fuel injectors see how high you can run the fuel pressure on the injectors. the higher the fuel pressure spray the more energetic it will become. by running a much higher fuel pressure this may help create a small Venturi effect by drawing in surround ambient air and slightly increasing the air pressure in the intake pipe / at the intake valve. think of how energetic a high pressure washer is, and how it influences the surrounding ambient air while only using a small amount of water. the other thing to take note is the finer the fuel droplets you can make while using higher fuel pressures the more chance you have of evaporating all of the fuel into a gas forum which will be fuel that is guaranteed to burn on the combustion process unlike large size fuel droplet (liquid fuel does not burn) the more fuel you can vaporize into a gas the less wasted fuel you will need to inject into the engine which allows the intake valve to have a chance at flowing a little bit more air than it usually would. could also try different types of fuel injectors and spray atomization patterns and the max operating fuel pressure's.
Good point.
From my perspective, the further the injectors the richer you want it to get, the A/F ratio will drop once engine heat up with the hood closed, that's why most race engine with ITB's do use double injectors for acceleration and stability at high rpm
Can you make a video about having one injector output for all injectors (from 1 to 4 squirts per engine rotation), paired injection (2 inj out, 2 squirts) and sequential injection (4 inj out)?
As older BMW's run 2inj out for 6cyl (1st 3 cyl had 1 inj out, next 3 had second inj out) or some had 1inj out for all cylinders
K-Jetronic?
@@marceloho1984 nah.. normal injection in M10/M20/M30 engines
F1 and other high-end race car use injectors at the intrase of the inlet stacks, of course they are trying to gain 2hp here and there, but it has to be better than at the port.
I was waiting for this video... thanks alot for the great work and sharing
It's most likely due to the change in density. By moving the injectors out further it lowers the temperature and increases the density. If you used a alcohol like E85 or methanol it would show a even larger change.
It's probably been said already, but isn't upstream injection about allowing sufficient time for fuel vapourisation at high speed?
Hyabusa have two sets of injectors per port. One is downstream of the throttle butterfly and aimed towards the spark plug. The other is upstream of the butterfly an aims at a fixed plate in the intake. I think the intention is to smash the fuel on the plate into smaller particles, which are easier to atomise.
Anyway, thanks for the cool video. I always bring my popcorn and headphones :-)
It's the difference in cooling effect of the outboard injectors that changes the speed of sound and therefore the ideal length..
You should try normal inboard injectors plus a set of outboard injectors but the outboards running a dedicated fuel system of methanol or ethanol or both, change the ratios of fuel types.
I would suspect injector timing would have a much larger impact with the injectors in the "close" position. There is much less time for the fuel to atomize and mix with the air. Injector timing doesn't really seem to matter much at WOT and high RPM, but it does have a noticeable impact on idle quality and emissions at low to medium RPM and loads.
Please, Please make more Videos with the 20V
Injector distance from opening as well as angle have a significant effect on the outcome of "stand-off" performance. It's an extremely time consuming process.
So next test make some new trumpets with injector bosses in them. run the normal length with the injectors mounted as far out as you can.
That was my thought on the outer vs inner, that they seemed to be having a similar effect as changing the inlet length. Looking at the dip midway through the run it shifts up and down with injector placement. I wonder if the speed of sound in air+fuel vapour is different 🤔 suppose it would be!
Although I expect it could be due to the air being cooler as well, which also changes the speed of sound in it...
I would say due to two things.
1 fuel has more time to atomize
2 aircolumn got more inertia.
Post you thoughts : your the don wan
A ducking legend
Just a shame you cant tune my 7age rally car
on the topic of fuel, could you see the difference in different fuel octanes and brands on the dyno? Would be interesting to see Gull vs Shell vs BP vs NPD etc
i actually recorded a video ages ago testing 95 and gull 98. but never made/ posted it, for a reason i cant remember. short answer they made the same power. but the gull gas needed a few degrees less timing due to the ethanol content
Pro Boost in Germany did this Experiment a few weeks ago. If you have a modern, FI-Engine, there are some gains (or lets say, the Engine unravels it´s Potential). If you have an old one, the gains are next to nothing.
Cheers
Its the evaporative cooling that helps the power up high and charge density that effectively lenghtens the intake as it reduces reversion.
Would be interesting to see injectors 90deg to the port and on the long side and short side of the port. Does it make any difference.
What's the point of letting the injectors spray against the throttle plates? Wouldn't it block some of the fuel delivery except on WOT?
Longer injector position would help the fuel atomization, and makes intake charge colder, so denser air
But, since the gain aren't that much, maybe your injector is good enough to atomize the fuel
Farther the injector location, better atomization
But, with more length, it takes more time to reach the cylinder, maybe on daily basic drive, the throttle response would be different, because all of the testing are in WOT, not partially open and closing
Something I might suggest is to mess with cam timing and/or cam to cam timing in order to get more overlap to allow the exhaust to do more scavenging to pull in more of that colder denser air charge. Something else like someone mentioned is with that colder denser air charge you can put a little bit more timing without detonation. Also turning up the fuel pressure as long as the injectors can take it would allow for more vaporization of the fuel. Also a fuel like methanol would show more of a improvement due to the higher latent heat and vaporization.
Spraying towards flow when close to valve could be interesting if spraying pattern wouldn't collapse
I would like to see a direct comparison test between running the engine on full sequential ( 720 degree cycle) VS semi sequential (360 degree cycle and half the pulse width) everything else the same. This would give us a measure of how worthwhile it is to bother with a cam sensor
Woiuld probably be tough with you making all this up in your garage but you should try to make variable length intake runners.
how about trying different installation angles? 30, 60, perpendicular to the inlet?
None of that really mattered that much.. Little bit here and there.. I would like to see a long runner intake big single tb vs those 4 short sm ones.
I forget if you’re running e85, in which case you might have so much knock resistance that it wouldn’t make a difference. I wonder if the presumably cooler charge will allow you to run a touch more timing.
The air column becomes heavier the sooner the fuel is introduced. Short runners have less resistance.
Please address the vibration issues. Harmonics are sick!
I guess 100kpa of atmospheric pressure through a unrestricted hole is always going to be the same. If either of the the intake were restrictive then that is different.
I wonder what would happen if injectors were at least a meter away from intake. That is a lot of time to evaporate and consume heat out of a charge
Wondering if you saw much of a difference in fuel injector pulse width for different timings. Have seen this change to a greater extent than performance when dyno testing FSAE engines. We always targeted injector timing which minimises pulse width for the same AFR (=best fuel economy). Also changed with changing throttle position.
Hey, yeah have found basically the same thing. doesn't seem to bee any need for a dyno to set the injector timing. Just tune the injector timing to get the richest afr reading. then trim the fuel out. Injector timing on the inner injectors has quite a big effect in the top end if set wrong. a bit of power but a big change in afr. unlike seen with the outers
Please do a 1800 sub comparison
I think the outer injectors are good when it's HOT outside or HOT in the engine bay area and fresh cool air needs to cool down.... cooling the intake charge with the injectors far away from the valve?? Maybe that's hard to create in the engine bay of a dyno??
Kinda hard to create on this setup at all. The intake has a 25mm plastic adapter plate and thermal gasket against the head. along with big hole beside radiator thats cooling/feeding the intake. so very rarely the intake gets much above ambient. Likely one of the reasons the results aren't as expected
Can you test some trumpets with different forms inside like spiral or straight grooves to see if they imrpove performance ?
What about both sets of injectors at the same time? Could this help improve mixing?
I’m curious if there is any difference in air temperature right at the head… and if the timing had more room.
Did you play with the timing after your baseline tune? Is it worth revisiting?
Do you think that all the tests you do on the 4age would have similar results on rotary engines, or do you think that the results wouldn't at all be transferrable due to the difference in airflow and general function?
same deal. obviously lengths and sizes will be completely different. ported rotary is like a big cam piston engine. will respond real well to the correct intake and exhaust lengths. a friend had a peripheral port engine that would have been keen to play with. but it didn't make it that far..
Hey man the stuff at the end your runs looks like the dyno retarder vibrating on the load cell. You can quickly check this with a dial gauge mounted to the frame and pointer on the retarder ontop and from the side while rotating the assembly. Had this alot on the old vane dynos i used to referb (same as yours) id advise to give it quick check. Let me know if you need to know anything
hey, Yeah have had multiple attempts at getting it bang on, is a lot better than when i first got it. what kind of run out would you find and try get them down to? The speed on these runs are pretty much maxing out what the retarded is rated at, max rpm wise. Also think its a bit to do with the control as does it at lower speeds also when power rolls over
what about an adjustable length intake similar to the mazda 787b 👀
How about a variable intake runner system? As seen on 787b.
I am a bit surprised/disappointed with the results.
I thought that the farther from the valve the injection occurs, the more homogeneous the mixture in the cylinder will be.
It should also have a slight effect on the intake temp.
but I still think that the location of the injection will affect the behavior of the engine in a half throttle situation.
What are the injectors, looking at the duty cycle they must be damn big.
Shat myself at 1:30. Thanks headphones
😂
Wonder what it would be like with different timing on inner and outer while running both at the same time but alternating which is in use depending on RPM
Maybe test with multi point injectors?
So I’m guessing long runners + outer injectors will be best of both worlds. There does look to be substantial gains in different parts of the maps with the outer/inner injectors. Does your ecu have 8 injector drivers? Could you run a varying ratio of inboard to outboard injectors?
This is what i was hinting at, at the end. I'm not sold that running the outer injectors on the longer normal length intake will be better, or make the intake act longer again. which will make less power. only 4 drives unfortunately
@@Garage4age yeah it wasn't all better but there were some areas where it adds power/reduces a dip in the graph. But overall, it seems the gain from longer runners are of a higher magnitude than what the outer injectors offer.
If you were developing a BTCC car in the late 90's and wanted to chase that extra 1-2% in a few areas, you'd definitely use outboard injection...
@@carSketcher Yeah definitively a little in it, case dependent just how much. in race car situation no question worth chasing. In my case nice to know theres a couple kw left there. but the cost, work and extra complexity of doing it properly . not worth it
Man, PLEASE make a video about the best configuration of all adjustments for 4a-ge bt for max performance. Lots of vids but i cant see whole picture. Does it work together? How to make it better?
have you seen this one? ruclips.net/video/Ik7tK_zmZCM/видео.html
Charge cooling would be my guess.
This is like tuning a grand piano with a sledge hammer.. Moving the injector further away from the valve evens out the mixture, makes the droplets smaller (ideally) and cools down the intake making the air more dense. The mix has overall more inertia, making it behave differently. SO to get the best out of it, the port/runner shape, valve profile, valve timing, cam lobe profile, spark energy and timing, need all to support the different location of the injector. Messy shaped runner denses the droplets bigger than they were in stock form, and if the valve&cam profile doesn't support the longer wet runner length, the closing hot intake valve creates a pulse that pushes the mix out from the runner rather than into the cylinder. Just like you can't whack a Grand Piano with a sledge hammer and expect it to be in tune, you can't just make one drastic change on your setup and expect it to perform better with just tickling it. And for the cam timing, just as injector/spark timing, it needs a different value @ different rev and load.
Wow thats a lot of words to say nothing useful or give any quantifiable examples of what you're talking about.
Sounds like garbage to me.
@@roman3s whatever, my dear pigeon. U either get it or don't, all the same to me.
So can you give us a specific example of how you would adjust "port/runner shape, valve profile, valve timing, cam lobe profile, spark energy and timing" then?
Based on injector position at port or stacks? Sounds like you're trying to claim expertise through vague anecdotes, which is never convincing.
If you change all of those things, then you get people saying results are invalid because you didnt isolate only one variable. Cant win.
@@roman3s As U said, my dear pigeon, I can't win this, so won't be bothering. Also typing any more specific answer would only make my back hurt more, with no actual positive outcome. So, yeah. Whatever, Let's just keep it as a riddle. Get the riddle right, and you win the race.
If the closing inlet valve has just had a fresh charge over it why would it be hot?
Wouldn't the most heat and reversion come from the overlap on the inlet valve opening (lowest inertia in intake port) while the piston is still rising in the bore expelling exhaust gas past the actually hot exhaust valve?
On several videos you put the oil and water temp. On some test you made an oil temp comparison as well. How do you adjust the oil temp? The lower limit is obviously with a thermostat (btw do you have an adjustable thermo?) , but how do you keep this temperature constant? I can see nothing special on your engine! Thanks
water temp is just around the thermostat temp. I let the car cool for a few mins after each test, once the oil temp drops to my target i run the car again. running the car hard on back to back runs will get the oil temp up. i usually run the tests at 90 or 95deg as its easiest to target on this setup. Also i do at least 4 full pulls after the car has warmed up, before start any testing
How much did it cost you to get a dyno? No one will let me dyno my truck. I have thought about buying one. Looking for a low cost one that can handle about 1000hp.
As everyone else says, more time for the fuel to atomise and cool the charge, similar to carbs. however putting the injectors outside is kind of a fire hazard.
Also the longer length means more area for fuel to stick to the walls of the runner, messing with throttle response and mixture.
speaking of mixture, what mixture are you targeting?
not sure if you ever mentioned that.
also have you tested the differences between E0, E5, E10, E85?
These are straight runners, fuel deatomization occurs mainly when you have bends in runners so it's not likely to deatomize in this intake setup.
What fuel pressure where you running with the outer injectors? We found that 5-6-7-8bar got us a bit more.
Is that correct that your car is doing 400nm at the wheels? this was 4 gear so 1-1 ratio right?
What about using two sets of weaker CC injectors? will that even out the spikes & dips?
Like 150cc inner and 150cc outer? Have you tried something like that?
Having 2 injectors on every cylinder is pain in the ahh when it comes to setting up the fuel rail & wiring
Interesting. Some RUclips tuners claim big gains from injector location/timing.
Is the air density the cause for effective intake runner length change? Would outboard water injection would have similar effect?
I would think so. As for the gains, i could see more in some situations. if you start stacking things; like engines that dont do a good job of mixing fuel. poor injector spray pattern, intakes that heat soak bad or suck hot air from behind a radiator or something. then combine it with an intake thats a little short.
@@Garage4age basically, outboard injectors can give bigger gains if rest of the design fails.
@@tiitsaul9036 i could be wrong, but it seems this way to me
I predict the outcome is above 8 to 10 k much better outboard.
Result, 4age doesn't rdv high enough. On sport bike engines this is WAY more obvious.
rev*
Thoughts on the fuel changing the effective intake length theory ?
It's tough to say. You could try making the runners even shorter and see what happens. It's too bad the engine bay is too small to run outboard injectors with your standard size runners.
In effect, it's turning the fuel delivery into a carburetored system, where fuel is introduced much earlier into the intake tract.
While introducing a theoretical heavy fuel into the air, it would stand to reason that it would be harder to move. This would support the idea of needing a shorter runner.
However, fuel atomization does throw in some curve balls. It is well demonstrated on V8s that intakes designed only for airflow perform poorly with the challenge of fuel distribution.
No, on an ITB setup, fuel distribution is not a problem. However, the smooth runners on the inside will be more prone to produce fuel running down its walls, like rain beads on glass. That is not how fuel wants to burn.
Perhaps, if not already done, the insides of the runners were exposed to a light sandblast? The gentle abrasive surface would be less willing to produce those beads.
@@zerohikari2685 Yeah that would be the ideal way to test it. if i get keen enough one day will make a bendy intake, that gives enough room to test at normal length. There looks to be some small gains maybe 1-2kw coming from the cooling or better fuel mix theory's. but unlikely they would move the power curve around so much. looking specifically at the flatline at 8k that gets filled the same way as the longer intake
@@crd-nz_001 The throttle plates sure must work like a carby at idle. the fuel literally runs out where the top half of the runner bolts to the filter backing plate. but quite happily idles the same as it normally does on the same tune. Last time i did it i recorded down the intake runner. once on song the fuel cleared out and nothing seemed to have time to get anywhere near the sides. kept this in mind when starting the runs this time. giving it a quick zing and using the overrun fuel cut on decel to ensure and fuel pooled was gone at start of run. The top black part is pretty smooth, rest of the intake all the way to the valve has a bit of texture to it.
Colder intake make sound travel slower maybe. But there’s many variable
What injectors type and size do you like using?
I have no idea but I was wondering how much time it takes to make a video like this? 1-2 days?
pretty much write off 2 days. one for dyno one to edit. is a lot of time editing, even though short videos. Its really not worth doing, but a lot of the stuff i want to try anyway
Staged injectors as means of budget high flow vs actual high flow injectors
Hey bro random question would u have a set of 4age piston pin circlips that you would be willing to sell Iv been looking for months I'm using some 4agze pistons in my gsr lancer build only thing I'm missing is the circlips chur.
Should be able to get them new from Toyota or amayama or something. Make sure you get the 4agze ones. The normal 16v ones are different
@@Garage4age cheers bro good info didn't know they were different to the 16v ones don't want them coming out at 9k put a hole in the block lol
@@Garage4age thanks bro finally found the part numbers should be able to source some now amayamas the go for Toyota part numbers
You probably get this question every day but what's the max HP you have achieved on a 4age . Also was your max pH rún also your max nm run?
this is pretty much it 167kw (224hp) at wheels, assuming you're talking non turbo
@@Garage4age thanks so much for the info
Much of a muchness
Not convinced at all.
With the graph to the left, I say you have to do it once again. With the graph in its usual place, to the right.
It’s important to keep EVERYTHING the same between tests.
And I wouldn’t trust any of the “Left-to-right-graph”-correction factors circulating the web.
So redoing the tests it is.
🙄