@@sushpants BRUH! ECU is the next step, a reflash of your stock one or a standalone, SO SO much power to be made, factory maps are really conservative.
@@sushpants excellent man! cant wait to see the gains, but id guess somewhere around 140whp easily. your engine seems healthy and strong. Also, dont get discouraged by that, getting more power out of such a great designed engine as your 20v is tough, toyota tailored the hell out of it, its no surprise the stock Map loses power with any other part that is not stock. Keep it up! am a fan of your channel since long ago!
Love this series. Toyota squeezed quite a bit out of the 4AGE with the 20V blacktop: 5 valves per cylinder, variable cam timing, ITB's, high compression ratio, and lightened internals. An aftermarket ECU and an old fashioned port and polish will do you the most good; it is a mass market engine. Being able to tune the engine will be the best way to maximize power. Leave the bottom end alone. Need another t-shirt.
I owned a fx16 gts quite a few years ago. I used Doug Thorley headers from trd which was for a mr2 so I had a local muffler shop modify it for me. I also used a hks catback exhaust system 50mm size. I wanted to install a lightweight hks flywheel which will let it wind up faster to get on the power band of the motor. Trd sold a pipe that deleted the hose from air flow meter to throttle body. Because of this installing cams is a waste of time and money. I stopped modifying the fx and purchased a 1980 rear wheel drive corolla and built a 2TG motor (200 hp na)
From your graph, afr is lean around 4~5k rpm correspond to the torque curve dip, and richer the rest of the way compares to stock header. This should be just timing tuning and you should see better result, not sure if oem ecu can be tuned. If we are talking about going standalone, might as well upgrade cam+tune. After tuning, if injector cycle is reaching peak before it can fully saturate this 4-1 header, only then u consider going for uprate injector+pump. Should be at least 4 video worth of content there ;) Edit: LOL mixed red from blue, red is stock after rewatch, sorry. So it's actually richer around 4~5k, lean all the way back. So, if that's due to injector fuel cycle already reaching peak, perhaps injector upgrade + pump + tune time
It's a usual thing to see rich mixtures with factory ECU on 4ag and 3sg engines. I run an AFC neo on the 4ag to address that alone with some colder plugs and a bit of advance on the distributor. The factory injectors are already oversized and if you do decide to go with an aftermarket ecu.... You might as well swap in some cams.(Tomei 264/256) work very well with VVT.
@@sushpants do u recommend upgrading the fuel pump on stock injector for daily driven? Can we still maintain efficiency while driving in the city with low rpm? I've seen someone upgrading fuel pump on stock K20Z3 and its scream out so alive while in high rpm
Jacob Webb in all actuality the price for haltec is really reasonable..... u get a lot ...... especially since fuel turning is fairly easy on the elite series ecus
I never knew how much power you can lose with a minimally broken exhaust manifold gasket. My FX got a custom made now. Buzzes like a butterfly and takes off like a hawk. Thank you for your channel. I've gotta get me one of those plates. Greetings to Leopold.
Gotta agree with the others here that an aftermarket ECU is going to be the best way to make use of the new exhaust. Having said that...it is weird you had such a loss. My AE92 with stock silvertop and 2.5 "catback" made the same as my silvertop in my lotus 7 replica with custom 2" equal length primaries 4-1. So if you take into account the extra drivetrain loss of the rear wheel drive it made better power (though yes, it was a different yet stock silvertop).
Love your build! I used to have an FX16 GTS, 85 MR2, and an 86 Corolla GTS. I ultimately did the HKS stroker kit with 272 cams and Weber carbs. Basically it was a Formula Atlantic motor before fuel injection. It was a great car!! I got older and sold off the cars. 20 years later I still regret that decision. Good luck!!
I miss my 92 Suzuki Swift, ive gotten very ill the last 8 months and its sat in my garage untouched. Your video made me feel a little better and gives me some hope to get out and drive my swift again. I know its not like your carolla but its pretty close. Very nice video loved it.
The cleanest (and best sounding) FX16 ever. I liked the little RPM gauge in the corner when you were dynoing the car, it's little edits like that which make your videos so good to watch.
Exhaust diameter and ' free flow ' are not important. A to big diameter tends to slow down gas speed. It's all about exhaust gas speed and scavenging. Good luck! Btw I am amazed the engine revs so high on stock ECU and cams. What an epic engine!
Definitely an aftermarket ecu. Use a 0.8mm Trd head gasket. 272 degree inlet cam with 9.1mm lift 280 degree exhaust cam with 9.1mm lift. When doing these mods make sure you send the head and cams to an engineer so that they can lengthened the valves and setup the clearances. While it is at the engineer maybe get them to port and flow the head. Good luck and keep the videos coming.
@@sushpants No not at all. The lift I advised is pretty mild aswell it will be good for daily driving too. An aftermarket ecu is a must with this setup well either way I would advise the change from the stock ecu.
My two favorite exhaust theory videos are No More Exhaust Myths on The Drive channel and The Engineering Behind Naturally Aspirated Horsepower by the Obsessed Garage channel. Both of those videos will give you a basic understanding of everything going on with exhaust tuning. Also, an easily tunable ECU will certainly make a big difference for your situation as well and let you tune for different velocity stacks.
A wide-body FX16 would look good and could allow for wider track width, which would improve the handling of the car on the touge , maybe even some fender flares would be good .
Aftermarket ECU for sure, either the Haltech Elite 750 or Link G4+ Monsoon and go COP. That would give you the best foundation to build off of since everything to be a true power setter would be restricted or not optimized by the factory ECU and ignition system.
Toda 272 9.2 lift inlet and exhaust camshaft Supertec valve springs and retainers Haltech Elite 550 ECU With that same 4-1 header Remove catalytic converter Eagerly waiting for what's next.
I have the same car stripped out as a race car. It has the Black top engine too. We built the engine up a bit stronger with 4agze rods and race bearings in the bottom end. With standard exhaust manifold and ECU. I was only getting 105hp at the front wheels (rods etc). Did a similar exhaust manifold mod and aftermarket ECU. With a good tune I got to 138hp at the front wheels. Still using standard cams. Go for an ECU and you will never regret it.
Have to say this test shocked me. Keep up the methodical mentality, I love it. ECU then 'stage 2/3' camshafts, valve springs and retainers to suit then put your high flow exhaust back on. May need larger injectors and fuel pump to take full advantage. Porting/ignition upgrade will have diminishing returns for the money especially in it's current stage IMO. A bonnet scoop with sealed ducting to the ITBs would give a noticeable gain driving it hard on the street, I don't think you'd see any dyno measurable gain but for a road going 'touge' racer I'm sure you'd feel the edge
Dear Sushpants, if you are still working with a stock head my suggestion would be to start porting the head with a 3 angle valve job. After this upgrade the cams. If you prefer street driveability have a look at catcams. They have been making within stock limits less duration higher lifft cams to maintain some driveability. Although the ecu's are always made to abide emissions a different ecu can do miracles. (if tuned properly) but either way, to go to serieus mods you also have to open the engine. I would go head first, (stock cams) see if the ecu can work it and what it does. If you then replace the ecu. You can show the workings of a head compared to stock. Changing the ecu then can show that difference. Going cams then and what not more can show that. (when changing cams maybe also go for the springs to make sure it is up for the task) Rod, pistons and bolts are nice but if the bottom end is healthy stick with it and when you go go .5 oversize on the pistons while its open. Also, is the goal more power, more a reliable more powerfull engine or simply a peaky 10k rpm thing. As the cams will need high duration to obtain that and the bottom will need some love too. Looking at your powercurve I find it strange, seen many black and silvertop 20v before but tthey all peaked before 7500 rpm? Or is this due to the modified intake ?
Don't know much about the 4AGE, but generally, High comp pistons, high degree cams, head package, and a port polish are the NA go tos. And obviously a good tune with the appropriate ecu
I would see what the AFR is with the new exhaust. If the flow is better, it can get really lean, thats why it wont make any power. The manifold on the other hand, maybe try to get a aftermarket 4-2-1 manifold, this kind of design has always been superior in the vdub world.
@@sushpants hey. I have a bzr trueno. I went from standard exhaust to 3 inch from the subframe right out the back. Car did 9.9 @ 66mph standard and 9.7 @ 75mph 3 inch in the 1/8th mile. I still have a standard ecu. To be honest, for the first few weeks after doing the exhaust it felt slower but eventually it started to improve and I could feel the difference. It also runs extremely lean.
I see you have like resonators and stuff in your exhaust. I think you should remove as many of them as you can. I only have one straight though muffler.
I know turbo cars are a bit different but the best thing for my Impreza was getting a tune done to get as much power out of the stock components, it gained a fair amount of hp and torque though the range with very minor changes. So I would definitely look into getting the ECU tuned by a professional and or installing a stand alone unit to have even more control of the engine.
I'm going to echo what other people have said, an ECU is going to let you optimize the setup, especially since you already have the engine breathing freer with the ITBs and header setup. The next jump could be cams and fuel system. You could go for a less aggressive setup to keep it streetable and friendly to just drive around but give you the performance gains you want. Always love your uploads, and the cat is super cute!
I mean, you can put an ecu to maximize the performance of the stock engine. If it seems to struggle, do the cams as well. Nice to point out that flashy doesn't mean more performance. Great video once again!
TRD headgasket and an adjustable exhaust cam gear to dial the exhaust cam. Standalone ecu will be best to get the best out every mod, however it's tuner dependent, see which standalone ecu your tuner is comfortable tuning and go with that. Excellent videos, keep up the great work 👌
+1 to a new ecu. Even my stock ecu had issues due to its age. Switching to haltech changed my engine %100. Meanwhile make sure that vvt actuator is working! Also some tomei valve springs and some kelfords with a tune is probably all you’ll need to do to make that BT what you want.
First you need a standalone engine management, then you need to consider increasing compression which will increase torque throughout the rev range. The larger the camshafts that you consider, the more compression you should run. Also, you can consider lengthening the intake trumpets for more midrange torque. Taking full advantage of any of these things will require a standalone EMS and a good tune. Good content. Most people don't show this kind of information.
Absolutely ecu! Get some sequencial injection and spark and your power will absolutely increase, you'll have much more room to improve with a standalone ecu
I think its time to build the motor from the pan to the cams, if you love engine response with the quickest rev up consider knife edging the crankshaft counterweights, but that reduces a ton of driveability. But if a small step is what you're considering get bigger cams for now, but I highly encourage you to get a standalone ecu and better fueling
Bolt on mods: Better fuel pump,Larger fuel rail,Injectors Ecu to correct every changes made Intake yeah good enough Exhaust try do a scavenging test with that header, maybe is just a bad scavenging (Make a video too) More extreme mods: Everything above and Top:Cams, Valves&Springs, Port&Polish Bottom:Full engine balancing, Oil baffle plate with windage & Larger bore and compression Not a 4age expert but for a N/A Responsive build I'll go with this set up
Whats up man.. I drive a blacktop 20v aswell and recently changed from the stock computer box to an aftermarket ECU... And i must say the power difference is much better with the 4 into 1 header on the aftermarket ECU.. As your tuner will be able to adjust the air and fuel ratio accordingly. TODA cams with adjustable vernier cam pullies will be the best next mod for the 20v.. If you can do the valve springs aswell will be fantastic to ensure the cams has good support from the bottom. All the best bud keep the content coming.!!
fun fact. i remember reading the trd bible theres a ae101 silvertop group a engine data . trd remain using the stock oem upper section (4-2) of header. and tinker with the lower section (2-to-1) and the rest of exhasut. there might be some reason for some of the old school tuner like toms using the oem upper section and revised the lower section also
ECU definitely needs to be done. I’ll bet it makes a decent increase in power once it’s tuned for that extra air. I ran into the same thing with my 2wd pickup with a 22re. CAI, LCE ported and polished head with 1mm larger stainless valves, LCE Long tube header and a 2 1/4 inch full exhaust. I lost a ton of torque, and maybe some hp. This is unconfirmed with a dyno but I feel it. A dude with the same setup as me with a tune made 135 whp. 22re normally makes like 95 whp.
Wideband AFR sensor, to see what might be causing the power loss. If its too lean with the less restrictive setup that just means there is a lot of potetial power to be made.
Tomei PonCam claim to add power with stock valve springs on the stock ecu. If you want to go with more aggressive cams and new valves springs you could also. But like everyone else is saying definitely go do the stand alone. I would actually like to see if running aftermarket cam's on the stock ecu will gain you any power. Then add the standalone on top to see how much more power can be made with a good tune.
i've read about the PonCams and i like that you can just drop them in. Standalone has to be the next upgrade. I think it'll be interesting to see how much the stock ECU is holding back the engine as it is.
on my setup i ran 2 stock headers basically using all the stock 20v piping to make a rwd header for the ae86 copled toa megan racing exhaust. worked great! nothing wrong with the stock piping. made 159hp and 161 on 2 different dynos. cool to see you do all back to back setup testing
You need an adjustable ecu to change the ign and fuel timing to optimise the header and catback addition. What size diameter is the header collector and catback system?
Mods to take advantage of the bigger header are port+polish on the head,bigger cams(maybe reprofile so you don't go too big since you need the car to be responsive and not peak power) and of course a programmable ecu. Also bigger injectors and pump may required, i don't know the rates of the stock ones. I suggest you find a good ecu first and tune the car and then dyno test again
i believe the bigger diameter exhaust may have leaned out the A/F ratio. the simplest fix would be indeed, to adjust the injectors with an aftermarket ECU
you need to upgrade your fuel pump for a high pressure one, also upgrade your fuel injectors , then buy a SAFC to reprogram the gas and you will be able to take advantage of your new headers and exhaust
A Tomei 264 duration camshafts and an m84 motec ecu, coil on plug conversion in my opinion for starters since your goal is for the touge after all so you would need a usable power band
Im really curious about the insides of the resonator and also the transitions at the cat. Ive seen MANY times where shops not paying attention will run the pipe too far into the cat and have it nearly against the core. Huge losses like that is generally a flow restriction not a size mismatch.
In regards to the ole rolla’ id say probably some mild cams, maybe some bigger injectors and a higher flow fuel pump would do it well. Maybe then also an aftermarket ECU and a good tune. Nothing crazy but still within the realm of “reliability”
You're losing gains because of back pressure. The wider headers and exhaust system doesn't have enough outward pressure to push the exhaust out. Ultimately, this comes down to a few things: 1. Timing - to adjust valves for more exhaust to push through the exhaust. 2. Upgrade the cams to allow the valves to open more. 3. Leave the aftermarket exhaust system, but install the stock headers again. It will create a venturi effect, allowing the air to move through faster towards the tailpipe. This will give you better performance at lower RPMs, but will hamper you at higher RPM range, which as you saw in your dyno test, you did ok up high considering the car was already going down in the mid range. Again to fix this, go back to 1 and 2. But since this is an older video, you probably already figured it out lol. Beautiful car though, I think I'm starting to like the fx16 more than the AE86 cause I love hatchbacks.
Port and polish ,264 degree camshafts if you're using same compression or 272 toda cams springs and gears if you can bump up the compression a bit,.haltech elite ecu.
I would definitely agree on ECU, the question is what? I'm rather partial to AEM and MoTeC myself. The Infinity 3 would be a nice one to have, especially with the better processor vs the older AEM ECUs.
I had always heard that the stock 20V header makes more power than aftermarket. Guess that’s kinda true? It really depends on what you wanna do but stock Toyota ECU’s are notoriously difficult to work with. I suppose a stand-alone engine management system would be the best way forward, because if the car can’t use the new exhaust, it can’t use better cams, bumps in compression or any other real power adders. Or you could go crazy and do a dual 40/40 Weber conversion
thanks man... hope i can use your video for guidance in the future.. still finding knowledge on my car.. what should and shouldnt do.. great video man keep it up..
An aftermarket ecu nicely remaped will wake up the engine. Advancing timing to its optimal point is the biggest gains u will see. The feedback i can give after having my honda k20 engine, is that it worths much more than the intake and exhaust manifolds. If i would choose were to spend money, i would retain stock intake and exhaust manifolds, just puting a simple cone filter and just a decat + straight catback, and a tuned ecu. U would see more power with this, and lower engine temperatures as well
I'd say you should go for an ECU to start with just so you can adjust your AFR. Then if you plan on still street driving the car I would port and polish the cylinder head that way you are flowing the max amount of air that you can. Adding cams could just be something you do later on down the road once you got everything else figured out and wired in correctly.
you definitely need to get a tune. The ECU is holding it back. I had a similar case for my 8th gen civic si. if you put an intake, cat-back, or a header you actually lose power on the stock ECU. After getting a flash pro tune I had 30+ whp gains across the reg range after about 4k rpms
I feel like I have done the same to my car, new exhaust sound good but the torque is way lower,but I can feel some improvement in the higher rpm ... short gearbox is my next upgrade for it but for you cams and ecu would be the go to ! Maybe you should do a dyno test with heat straps around the exhaust manifold, the decrease in heat in the engine bay could help your itbs ^^
I would like to see poncams! My BT AE-92 might be due for a strip/clean and some go-fast bits (have an AEM ECU lying around, maybe CoP?) Check all vacuum and seals. Slight leaks make HUGE differences in 4A power in my experience
Too large of a diameter exhaust will rob power. When I chose my exhaust parts, I was initially thinking I'd go with the largest diameter. Someone smarter than me pointed out that a larger diameter pipe is filled with more air, air that has to get pushed out of the way before the exhaust gases get out. The progressive expansion of the pipes and exhaust gases probably helps with the old exhaust. I wonder what would happen if you kept the diameter of the new pipes and shortened the exhaust to a side exit. I bet, more power, up top. I've considered trying to make a variable length exhaust, longer for low rpm, shorter for high.
Maybe it was some other part that caused a restriction like the spark plugs. But I think you should take a look at a Link or Haltech ECU. They both have a pnp for the blacktop. And for cams you should look at Tomei if you want to keep the stock valve springs and retainers.
I never realised you were still on stock ECU, my lawd you have so much potential power all across the rpm range to be gained!
ECU seems to be what everyone is thinking.
@@sushpants ECU
@@sushpants BRUH! ECU is the next step, a reflash of your stock one or a standalone, SO SO much power to be made, factory maps are really conservative.
@HELLISH An ECU and coil on plug conversation kit are on their way!
@@sushpants excellent man! cant wait to see the gains, but id guess somewhere around 140whp easily. your engine seems healthy and strong.
Also, dont get discouraged by that, getting more power out of such a great designed engine as your 20v is tough, toyota tailored the hell out of it, its no surprise the stock Map loses power with any other part that is not stock.
Keep it up! am a fan of your channel since long ago!
Am I the only one that comes back again and again to watch all his videos just to hear this car? ❤️🥺
It’s not just you. I also come back and watch them over again😄.
Love this series. Toyota squeezed quite a bit out of the 4AGE with the 20V blacktop: 5 valves per cylinder, variable cam timing, ITB's, high compression ratio, and lightened internals. An aftermarket ECU and an old fashioned port and polish will do you the most good; it is a mass market engine. Being able to tune the engine will be the best way to maximize power. Leave the bottom end alone. Need another t-shirt.
Rene Do you know about the 2zz? What do those need to become touge machines.
I owned a fx16 gts quite a few years ago. I used Doug Thorley headers from trd which was for a mr2 so I had a local muffler shop modify it for me. I also used a hks catback exhaust system 50mm size. I wanted to install a lightweight hks flywheel which will let it wind up faster to get on the power band of the motor. Trd sold a pipe that deleted the hose from air flow meter to throttle body. Because of this installing cams is a waste of time and money.
I stopped modifying the fx and purchased a 1980 rear wheel drive corolla and built a 2TG motor (200 hp na)
From your graph, afr is lean around 4~5k rpm correspond to the torque curve dip, and richer the rest of the way compares to stock header. This should be just timing tuning and you should see better result, not sure if oem ecu can be tuned. If we are talking about going standalone, might as well upgrade cam+tune. After tuning, if injector cycle is reaching peak before it can fully saturate this 4-1 header, only then u consider going for uprate injector+pump. Should be at least 4 video worth of content there ;)
Edit: LOL mixed red from blue, red is stock after rewatch, sorry. So it's actually richer around 4~5k, lean all the way back. So, if that's due to injector fuel cycle already reaching peak, perhaps injector upgrade + pump + tune time
i was thinking about yanking out the injectors to be cleaned and tested. The pump has been upgraded already.
@@sushpants Good idea, might just be that.
It's a usual thing to see rich mixtures with factory ECU on 4ag and 3sg engines. I run an AFC neo on the 4ag to address that alone with some colder plugs and a bit of advance on the distributor. The factory injectors are already oversized and if you do decide to go with an aftermarket ecu.... You might as well swap in some cams.(Tomei 264/256) work very well with VVT.
@@sushpants do u recommend upgrading the fuel pump on stock injector for daily driven? Can we still maintain efficiency while driving in the city with low rpm? I've seen someone upgrading fuel pump on stock K20Z3 and its scream out so alive while in high rpm
Well I think it's time to move on to an aftermarket ECU friend !!
Blak86 ....I’d like to see a haltec
@@victorbernabe4294 dang you like them expensive
Jacob Webb in all actuality the price for haltec is really reasonable..... u get a lot ...... especially since fuel turning is fairly easy on the elite series ecus
@@victorbernabe4294 i think Maxxecu could be better🤔
That result seriously shocked me 😮 was thinking of buying the same header for my AE101 since I have an OEM TRD catback exhaust and stock BT
I never knew how much power you can lose with a minimally broken exhaust manifold gasket. My FX got a custom made now. Buzzes like a butterfly and takes off like a hawk. Thank you for your channel. I've gotta get me one of those plates. Greetings to Leopold.
Great vid & props for following up with investigation and diagnosis. I never get tired of that sound...
Gotta agree with the others here that an aftermarket ECU is going to be the best way to make use of the new exhaust. Having said that...it is weird you had such a loss. My AE92 with stock silvertop and 2.5 "catback" made the same as my silvertop in my lotus 7 replica with custom 2" equal length primaries 4-1. So if you take into account the extra drivetrain loss of the rear wheel drive it made better power (though yes, it was a different yet stock silvertop).
Love your build! I used to have an FX16 GTS, 85 MR2, and an 86 Corolla GTS. I ultimately did the HKS stroker kit with 272 cams and Weber carbs. Basically it was a Formula Atlantic motor before fuel injection. It was a great car!! I got older and sold off the cars. 20 years later I still regret that decision. Good luck!!
Super cool to see you do tests on each setup. Awesome to see unique builds like this and can’t wait to see what motor mods are next!
The sounds of this engine are sick! Always a pleasure watching your videos, keep it up!
I miss my 92 Suzuki Swift, ive gotten very ill the last 8 months and its sat in my garage untouched. Your video made me feel a little better and gives me some hope to get out and drive my swift again. I know its not like your carolla but its pretty close. Very nice video loved it.
Love your build man I’ve said it before and I’ll say every time I watch your videos it’s coming along amazing!
Thank you, buddy!
best part is 5:42 "meow"
Thats a 185hp "meow" at 5:42
The cleanest (and best sounding) FX16 ever. I liked the little RPM gauge in the corner when you were dynoing the car, it's little edits like that which make your videos so good to watch.
Ooh ooh ohh MR2 guy here hell yeah! First dude here hell yeah!
Exhaust diameter and ' free flow ' are not important. A to big diameter tends to slow down gas speed. It's all about exhaust gas speed and scavenging. Good luck!
Btw I am amazed the engine revs so high on stock ECU and cams. What an epic engine!
Big fan of your build since you started! Your video editing has only gotten better over time!
Thanks for being there from the beginning!
Videos with Cat automatically earn a instant subscribe.
Leo cat is best cat.
I love this proyect so much. Excelent channel, video, editing, explaning, and CAR!!
Upgrade
1) Cam
2) Ecu/piggyback
3) Valve spring
4) Fuel regulator
I think this helps improve the engine respond.
@Yama Fanboy yeah
lol! I wish it was all already installed :D
Definitely an aftermarket ecu.
Use a 0.8mm Trd head gasket.
272 degree inlet cam with 9.1mm lift
280 degree exhaust cam with 9.1mm lift.
When doing these mods make sure you send the head and cams to an engineer so that they can lengthened the valves and setup the clearances. While it is at the engineer maybe get them to port and flow the head. Good luck and keep the videos coming.
280 degree cam? won't be too crazy?
@@sushpants No not at all. The lift I advised is pretty mild aswell it will be good for daily driving too. An aftermarket ecu is a must with this setup well either way I would advise the change from the stock ecu.
My two favorite exhaust theory videos are No More Exhaust Myths on The Drive channel and The Engineering Behind Naturally Aspirated Horsepower by the Obsessed Garage channel. Both of those videos will give you a basic understanding of everything going on with exhaust tuning. Also, an easily tunable ECU will certainly make a big difference for your situation as well and let you tune for different velocity stacks.
A wide-body FX16 would look good and could allow for wider track width, which would improve the handling of the car on the touge , maybe even some fender flares would be good .
Nice car
Nice cat
Good methodology
Nice camera work
Nice music
Subbed
Aftermarket ECU for sure, either the Haltech Elite 750 or Link G4+ Monsoon and go COP. That would give you the best foundation to build off of since everything to be a true power setter would be restricted or not optimized by the factory ECU and ignition system.
Toda 272 9.2 lift inlet and exhaust camshaft
Supertec valve springs and retainers
Haltech Elite 550 ECU
With that same 4-1 header
Remove catalytic converter
Eagerly waiting for what's next.
I have the same car stripped out as a race car. It has the Black top engine too. We built the engine up a bit stronger with 4agze rods and race bearings in the bottom end. With standard exhaust manifold and ECU. I was only getting 105hp at the front wheels (rods etc). Did a similar exhaust manifold mod and aftermarket ECU. With a good tune I got to 138hp at the front wheels. Still using standard cams. Go for an ECU and you will never regret it.
Cams, springs, retainers, ported head, ecu and fueling and I think that’s most of what you need minus a full engine block rebuild (7A-GE)
Have to say this test shocked me. Keep up the methodical mentality, I love it. ECU then 'stage 2/3' camshafts, valve springs and retainers to suit then put your high flow exhaust back on. May need larger injectors and fuel pump to take full advantage. Porting/ignition upgrade will have diminishing returns for the money especially in it's current stage IMO. A bonnet scoop with sealed ducting to the ITBs would give a noticeable gain driving it hard on the street, I don't think you'd see any dyno measurable gain but for a road going 'touge' racer I'm sure you'd feel the edge
20v owner here, I think an ecu should be the first because it opens the door to many mods capable of huge things!
I think it's going to be an ECU next.
Always nice to hear those ITB's. One of the best sounding engines I know of.
Still a dream car of mine! Such a rad car
Dear Sushpants,
if you are still working with a stock head my suggestion would be to start porting the head with a 3 angle valve job. After this upgrade the cams. If you prefer street driveability have a look at catcams. They have been making within stock limits less duration higher lifft cams to maintain some driveability.
Although the ecu's are always made to abide emissions a different ecu can do miracles. (if tuned properly) but either way, to go to serieus mods you also have to open the engine. I would go head first, (stock cams) see if the ecu can work it and what it does. If you then replace the ecu. You can show the workings of a head compared to stock. Changing the ecu then can show that difference.
Going cams then and what not more can show that. (when changing cams maybe also go for the springs to make sure it is up for the task)
Rod, pistons and bolts are nice but if the bottom end is healthy stick with it and when you go go .5 oversize on the pistons while its open. Also, is the goal more power, more a reliable more powerfull engine or simply a peaky 10k rpm thing. As the cams will need high duration to obtain that and the bottom will need some love too.
Looking at your powercurve I find it strange, seen many black and silvertop 20v before but tthey all peaked before 7500 rpm? Or is this due to the modified intake ?
Don't know much about the 4AGE, but generally, High comp pistons, high degree cams, head package, and a port polish are the NA go tos.
And obviously a good tune with the appropriate ecu
i don’t even have an fx16 but i love watching these videos anyways
I would see what the AFR is with the new exhaust. If the flow is better, it can get really lean, thats why it wont make any power. The manifold on the other hand, maybe try to get a aftermarket 4-2-1 manifold, this kind of design has always been superior in the vdub world.
AFR's were rock solid at 12.4. 4-2-1 clearly has advantages in torque.
@@sushpants I wonder if that exhaust actually flows better than the one you had on there then.
@@sushpants hey. I have a bzr trueno. I went from standard exhaust to 3 inch from the subframe right out the back. Car did 9.9 @ 66mph standard and 9.7 @ 75mph 3 inch in the 1/8th mile. I still have a standard ecu. To be honest, for the first few weeks after doing the exhaust it felt slower but eventually it started to improve and I could feel the difference. It also runs extremely lean.
I see you have like resonators and stuff in your exhaust. I think you should remove as many of them as you can. I only have one straight though muffler.
Love listening to this car sounds amazing
One fun project! Next up will be cams to make use of the exhaust system.
Very fond memories of this little screamer.
I know turbo cars are a bit different but the best thing for my Impreza was getting a tune done to get as much power out of the stock components, it gained a fair amount of hp and torque though the range with very minor changes. So I would definitely look into getting the ECU tuned by a professional and or installing a stand alone unit to have even more control of the engine.
This build is so sick!
I'm going to echo what other people have said, an ECU is going to let you optimize the setup, especially since you already have the engine breathing freer with the ITBs and header setup. The next jump could be cams and fuel system. You could go for a less aggressive setup to keep it streetable and friendly to just drive around but give you the performance gains you want. Always love your uploads, and the cat is super cute!
I think ECU is going to be the next thing.
I mean, you can put an ecu to maximize the performance of the stock engine. If it seems to struggle, do the cams as well. Nice to point out that flashy doesn't mean more performance. Great video once again!
TRD headgasket and an adjustable exhaust cam gear to dial the exhaust cam. Standalone ecu will be best to get the best out every mod, however it's tuner dependent, see which standalone ecu your tuner is comfortable tuning and go with that. Excellent videos, keep up the great work 👌
When I pull the head for cams and springs, I think I will drop in the trd gasket. But ECU is the next step!
Just stumbled on this channel and I'm so glad I did.
Awesome video as always! Love this little Corolla!
Pretty interesting to see, because all other tests I've seen has shown that large performance exhausts always improve horsepower and torque.
+1 to a new ecu. Even my stock ecu had issues due to its age. Switching to haltech changed my engine %100. Meanwhile make sure that vvt actuator is working! Also some tomei valve springs and some kelfords with a tune is probably all you’ll need to do to make that BT what you want.
I think it's going to be ECU next. I'm thinking a Haltech elite 750.
@sushpants That filter on the ITBs are very restrictive. You should try dynoing the car without them on
Already did. The individual UNI filters choke the ITB’s, but a big pipercross has almost no impact.
Such a cool car. My dad had red UK GTI version in the early 90s.
First you need a standalone engine management, then you need to consider increasing compression which will increase torque throughout the rev range. The larger the camshafts that you consider, the more compression you should run. Also, you can consider lengthening the intake trumpets for more midrange torque. Taking full advantage of any of these things will require a standalone EMS and a good tune. Good content. Most people don't show this kind of information.
Absolutely ecu! Get some sequencial injection and spark and your power will absolutely increase, you'll have much more room to improve with a standalone ecu
I think its time to build the motor from the pan to the cams, if you love engine response with the quickest rev up consider knife edging the crankshaft counterweights, but that reduces a ton of driveability. But if a small step is what you're considering get bigger cams for now, but I highly encourage you to get a standalone ecu and better fueling
knife edging the crank? Now that would be wild as hell.
Bolt on mods:
Better fuel pump,Larger fuel rail,Injectors
Ecu to correct every changes made
Intake yeah good enough
Exhaust try do a scavenging test with that header, maybe is just a bad scavenging (Make a video too)
More extreme mods:
Everything above and
Top:Cams, Valves&Springs, Port&Polish
Bottom:Full engine balancing, Oil baffle plate with windage & Larger bore and compression
Not a 4age expert but for a N/A Responsive build I'll go with this set up
Change the ecu, port and polish the head and a nice mild camshalf upgrade.
Whats up man.. I drive a blacktop 20v aswell and recently changed from the stock computer box to an aftermarket ECU... And i must say the power difference is much better with the 4 into 1 header on the aftermarket ECU.. As your tuner will be able to adjust the air and fuel ratio accordingly.
TODA cams with adjustable vernier cam pullies will be the best next mod for the 20v.. If you can do the valve springs aswell will be fantastic to ensure the cams has good support from the bottom.
All the best bud keep the content coming.!!
fun fact. i remember reading the trd bible theres a ae101 silvertop group a engine data . trd remain using the stock oem upper section (4-2) of header. and tinker with the lower section (2-to-1) and the rest of exhasut.
there might be some reason for some of the old school tuner like toms using the oem upper section and revised the lower section also
ECU definitely needs to be done. I’ll bet it makes a decent increase in power once it’s tuned for that extra air. I ran into the same thing with my 2wd pickup with a 22re. CAI, LCE ported and polished head with 1mm larger stainless valves, LCE Long tube header and a 2 1/4 inch full exhaust. I lost a ton of torque, and maybe some hp. This is unconfirmed with a dyno but I feel it. A dude with the same setup as me with a tune made 135 whp. 22re normally makes like 95 whp.
Wideband AFR sensor, to see what might be causing the power loss.
If its too lean with the less restrictive setup that just means there is a lot of potetial power to be made.
Tomei PonCam claim to add power with stock valve springs on the stock ecu. If you want to go with more aggressive cams and new valves springs you could also. But like everyone else is saying definitely go do the stand alone. I would actually like to see if running aftermarket cam's on the stock ecu will gain you any power. Then add the standalone on top to see how much more power can be made with a good tune.
i've read about the PonCams and i like that you can just drop them in. Standalone has to be the next upgrade. I think it'll be interesting to see how much the stock ECU is holding back the engine as it is.
Definitely ecu,
It'll let you optimize what you got
And will leave you ready for more serious engine mods in the future ✌️
Dyno: Reving Over 8000..
Sushpants- My 4AGE is running stock ECU and stock cams..
Viewers: Wait hold up.. lol
Haha, it’s going to over 9000 with ECU and cams!
@@sushpants That's like a Honda B or K series engine, WOWzers!
on my setup i ran 2 stock headers basically using all the stock 20v piping to make a rwd header for the ae86 copled toa megan racing exhaust. worked great! nothing wrong with the stock piping. made 159hp and 161 on 2 different dynos. cool to see you do all back to back setup testing
Haltech ecu. Battle Garage rs has a nice kit. I got one for my blacktop. One of the best upgrades I have done.
did you get the Elite 750? and did you self tune or have a tuner do it?
sushpants I got the 550. But I should have done the 750. The kit came with a base map. And easy to understand instructions. I got a tune at a shop.
You need an adjustable ecu to change the ign and fuel timing to optimise the header and catback addition. What size diameter is the header collector and catback system?
Amazing experience, big thanks
Mods to take advantage of the bigger header are port+polish on the head,bigger cams(maybe reprofile so you don't go too big since you need the car to be responsive and not peak power) and of course a programmable ecu. Also bigger injectors and pump may required, i don't know the rates of the stock ones. I suggest you find a good ecu first and tune the car and then dyno test again
i think time for ecu so u can dyno test every upgrade.. great video man
i believe the bigger diameter exhaust may have leaned out the A/F ratio. the simplest fix would be indeed, to adjust the injectors with an aftermarket ECU
you need to upgrade your fuel pump for a high pressure one, also upgrade your fuel injectors , then buy a SAFC to reprogram the gas and you will be able to take advantage of your new headers and exhaust
Rods, piston, camshaft, valve springs, adjustable cam gears, lightened crankshaft pulley and an aftermarket ecu...should do da trick!
Beautiful sounds. Now upgrade that ECU!!! I’m subscribed
A Tomei 264 duration camshafts and an m84 motec ecu, coil on plug conversion in my opinion for starters since your goal is for the touge after all so you would need a usable power band
Im really curious about the insides of the resonator and also the transitions at the cat. Ive seen MANY times where shops not paying attention will run the pipe too far into the cat and have it nearly against the core. Huge losses like that is generally a flow restriction not a size mismatch.
Intresting comparison, great content. Stay safe!
In regards to the ole rolla’ id say probably some mild cams, maybe some bigger injectors and a higher flow fuel pump would do it well. Maybe then also an aftermarket ECU and a good tune. Nothing crazy but still within the realm of “reliability”
You're losing gains because of back pressure. The wider headers and exhaust system doesn't have enough outward pressure to push the exhaust out. Ultimately, this comes down to a few things: 1. Timing - to adjust valves for more exhaust to push through the exhaust. 2. Upgrade the cams to allow the valves to open more. 3. Leave the aftermarket exhaust system, but install the stock headers again. It will create a venturi effect, allowing the air to move through faster towards the tailpipe. This will give you better performance at lower RPMs, but will hamper you at higher RPM range, which as you saw in your dyno test, you did ok up high considering the car was already going down in the mid range. Again to fix this, go back to 1 and 2. But since this is an older video, you probably already figured it out lol. Beautiful car though, I think I'm starting to like the fx16 more than the AE86 cause I love hatchbacks.
Port and polish ,264 degree camshafts if you're using same compression or 272 toda cams springs and gears if you can bump up the compression a bit,.haltech elite ecu.
you don't think 272's would work well on the stock compression? Maybe paired with a TRD headgasket?
@@sushpants yes they would work but ideally your trying to keep your low end torque for touge and autocross purposes
I would definitely agree on ECU, the question is what?
I'm rather partial to AEM and MoTeC myself.
The Infinity 3 would be a nice one to have, especially with the better processor vs the older AEM ECUs.
Go for some mild cams and consider upgrading the injectors! You would obviously need an aftermarket ECU to take full advantage of these though.
I was going to yank out the stock injectors to be cleaned and flow balanced. I think the stock injectors are pretty decent.
I had always heard that the stock 20V header makes more power than aftermarket. Guess that’s kinda true? It really depends on what you wanna do but stock Toyota ECU’s are notoriously difficult to work with. I suppose a stand-alone engine management system would be the best way forward, because if the car can’t use the new exhaust, it can’t use better cams, bumps in compression or any other real power adders.
Or you could go crazy and do a dual 40/40 Weber conversion
But why do a dual weber conversion when it already is running ITB's?
Cams and a standalone are the next steps, ideally at once so you can tune with everything installed in one go
thanks man... hope i can use your video for guidance in the future.. still finding knowledge on my car.. what should and shouldnt do.. great video man keep it up..
There isn't much info on the Corolla FX's, but join up some of the facebook groups. Lots of people there can help.
An aftermarket ecu nicely remaped will wake up the engine. Advancing timing to its optimal point is the biggest gains u will see. The feedback i can give after having my honda k20 engine, is that it worths much more than the intake and exhaust manifolds. If i would choose were to spend money, i would retain stock intake and exhaust manifolds, just puting a simple cone filter and just a decat + straight catback, and a tuned ecu. U would see more power with this, and lower engine temperatures as well
I have been looking for an FX-16 in Minnesota for years. Even out of state its rare.
ECU and cams next.
Until that point, keep the aftermarket exhaust on anyway, because that's the raunchiest ASMR I've ever heard and I love it.
I'd say you should go for an ECU to start with just so you can adjust your AFR. Then if you plan on still street driving the car I would port and polish the cylinder head that way you are flowing the max amount of air that you can.
Adding cams could just be something you do later on down the road once you got everything else figured out and wired in correctly.
you definitely need to get a tune. The ECU is holding it back. I had a similar case for my 8th gen civic si. if you put an intake, cat-back, or a header you actually lose power on the stock ECU. After getting a flash pro tune I had 30+ whp gains across the reg range after about 4k rpms
I dont know these engines very well but based on how good certain stock stuff is, Bowl work on the head, and a tune! Maybe cams?
ecu cams and higher compression pistons would be a good next step
Get more air in, now there is the potential for more to come out. Head, cams, valves and and probably injectors/pump with a new ecu would be amazing.
ECU install and test are next in the build!
@@sushpants going to be a thing of beauty
It sounds so good
Awesome video! Loved the information
I feel like I have done the same to my car, new exhaust sound good but the torque is way lower,but I can feel some improvement in the higher rpm ... short gearbox is my next upgrade for it but for you cams and ecu would be the go to ! Maybe you should do a dyno test with heat straps around the exhaust manifold, the decrease in heat in the engine bay could help your itbs ^^
I have a heat blanket that i'm installing to help keep engine bay temps down.
I would like to see poncams! My BT AE-92 might be due for a strip/clean and some go-fast bits (have an AEM ECU lying around, maybe CoP?)
Check all vacuum and seals. Slight leaks make HUGE differences in 4A power in my experience
Too large of a diameter exhaust will rob power. When I chose my exhaust parts, I was initially thinking I'd go with the largest diameter. Someone smarter than me pointed out that a larger diameter pipe is filled with more air, air that has to get pushed out of the way before the exhaust gases get out. The progressive expansion of the pipes and exhaust gases probably helps with the old exhaust. I wonder what would happen if you kept the diameter of the new pipes and shortened the exhaust to a side exit. I bet, more power, up top. I've considered trying to make a variable length exhaust, longer for low rpm, shorter for high.
Maybe it was some other part that caused a restriction like the spark plugs.
But I think you should take a look at a Link or Haltech ECU. They both have a pnp for the blacktop.
And for cams you should look at Tomei if you want to keep the stock valve springs and retainers.