Carl Benjamin aka Sargon of Akkad - Liberalism, an Autopsy
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- Опубликовано: 12 дек 2023
- We speak about the evolution of online ideologies, the increasingly unavoidable confrontation with post-liberalism, democracy, the individual, ideology itself as a child of the Enlightenment, Christianity as a necessary but eroding substructure of Western culture, and much more.
Carl Benjamin aka Sargon of Akkad is a legendary RUclipsr, writer and podcaster, former politician, and a true renaissance man of the Internet age. You can find all his newest videos and essays at www.lotuseaters.com/ 
Развлечения
In defense of trad eWaifus: the purpose of trad eWife is not for men. It's to make it look glamorous for other women online. And women judge other women harshly on looks and style and fashion.
So they are basically saying, "look at me, I am hot, and fashionable, and my husband takes care of me, this could be you."
All women care about aesthetics and lifestyle, and so this is a good message. It's shouldn't be "you must be truly devoted trad philosopher woman! Who knows and understands all doctrines"
It's okay if trad wife begins as an aesthetic, and works toward substantial reality.
This is okay to a degree just like converting to a religion like christianity and trying to live up to its values so that your kids are true believers even if you aren't to the same degree.
My issue begin when it's a lie, a trick, a fabrication merely for the lady to get what see wants. Especially after their hot girl summer, hoe phase.
Everyone can change I don't want to hold it against anyone.
I just would appreciate it if everyone wasn't a "loki".
Good luck to both sides of this horrendous gender war for profits and hedonistic freedoms.
Que the Ron Paul meme of it's happening, this is the future you choose and YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS!
Goodluck everyone.
Absolutely. I always thought that Peterson's take on art and religion preceding the understanding was worth remembering.
@@greygolem it's also a very Nietzschean point, basically larping is the way to become the thing you want to become. Authenticity comes later not first.
Carl's discussion in the first half about liberalism's individuality and the loss of communal ties makes me thing quite strongly of John Adams' famous quote, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” I think that America's founding fathers, or at least John Adams, understood well that liberty could break apart the ties that held communities together. They expected, or at least hoped, that free people would still maintain those connections even without it pushed upon them (directly or indirectly through necessity). This is why Thomas Jefferson also said, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." In our individualism, we have not been vigilant to preserve the liberty and freedom of others which has allowed our governments to start applying ever increasing limitations.
I understand some of the critiques of Libertarianism when it comes to globalized markets. But when Alex suggested that the banking system was unregulated I was a little surprised. There's some pretty heavy regulations, but the government created incentives which encouraged banks to lend money to people who weren't credit worthy because the government wanted high home ownership rates. Banks knew when the market went sideways they would be bailed out.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again that Alex is really good at this, and i love the way her brain works.
Took a long time for this crossover to happen. I loved that you had already met Carl as a fan but he didn't remember it. Shows how far you've come, Alex.
Liberalism dissolved social bonds and duty. We must recreate these in parallel institutions. Another weak point of liberalism is that it is not allowed to infer with certain types of private structures.
So we need to make sure our parallel institutions aren't just the same business model as the ones we are trying to replace.
For example, imagine if you went to a parallel college that we created. Well, we should find a way to make a person's entire family involved. For example, in our code of conduct, if your family member is in financial need, and you have excess funds, then not helping them is a violation of the code of conduct.
Just an example. But our parallel institutions have to not just be purely profit seeking individualistic entities.
Or for example, business mission statements that include social goals. Woke business will include things like "equity or environmentally friendly" in their mission statement.
Why couldn't we have "We are a housing company focused on building houses for aspiring traditional families, helping solve the fertility crisis."
Align our private institutions with our moral goals.
"if you have excess funds, then not helping is a violation"... soo.... communism with extra steps? got it.
Like an ethical state, you mean?
Thats called fascism
Sentimental bonds with family, friends & place are essential for meaning.
Life isn't a stat or a spreadsheet.
Life isn't about ticking boxes.
It's made up of the shared ups and downs. The laughter. The love. The setbacks and frustrations too and hopefully supporting your loved ones through all this.
It's the memories and little moments that make a whole. Quirks, foibles, flaws and all.
Life is a gift.
We forget how precious and short it is.
Make it count & be grateful for the good little moments of joy that you share with others.
We live in a world of abundance which is portrayed as a world of shortage, how can we get rid of the Molochs who thrive and promote this portrayal?
Ay up lotuseaters, great seeing Carl on. We need more based women like yourself Alex.
She's about as "based" as any metropolitan socialite: "rules for thee but not for me."
💀💀💀💀
Around 18:00 minutes, Sargon mentions volunteering, and I agree - if you have the time and the energy, try volunteering. I began volunteering last summer, and that's one of the best decisions I have ever made. It sounds like a cliché, but it really gives back much more than you give and it is incredibly meaningful.
Carl got that bloom filter working hard! Great interview!
On another note i need to go check out my local church
Pray for me. I'm a sinner
Alex when are you going to be a guest host on the Lotus Eaters podcast?
33:15
Legit just called mum.
Same
drinking game: every time Carlgon says "at the end of the day"
good talk. subbed.
Two of my favored dissidents.
I like the green fronds and trellis in Carl's background, if he had a pineapple on desk instead of that black cup it would be great
There are, effectively, three types of adults in America: 1. steadfast (most of us), 2. intellectual (mostly, academics), 3. broken (institutionalized as in prison, psychopaths and moloch tending). A lot of the broken are officeholders.
That's kind of terrifying. Tragicomedy 😅
There are two types of people: those holier than thou types, like you, who presume to assign people to bullshit groups, and those who know better. Like me.
carl and james lindsay were on the ben boyce podcast clamversations and seem to be making some headway
there was some admission by james that the “blank slate” argument is a foundational flaw and a liberalism 2.0 is needed
id like them to work that out
"Liberalism 2.0" might be the worst thing i have ever heard
i know, but for lindsay it was a small concession
it’s all for shit now anyway. they’ve “parted ways”
@@nodruj8681 what about the new new deal?
Several times I have backed away from labels because they only mean what I think they mean to me. To everyone else the label you choose for yourself means what they think it means. So you're not communicating accurately, but instead lying without even understanding what you're saying to other people.
Sargon knew
He should've been saying this right after his debate with M Woes in 2016.
56:00 - yes we need to find someone but what is the ratio if men to women who are single in these spheres or who would attend a Sargon event or something. 15 single guys for every single girl?
Sargon has the best sets. Showman. 👍
Dhama/Duty is the only way to long term happiness. This has been known for 1000's of years in the east. Duty/regulation create long term happiness and knowledge in a society. Chasing dopamine hits creates never ending desires and social in groups and out groups. And destroys social cohesion.
Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18:
Acts of sacrifice, charity and penance are not to be given up; they must be performed. Indeed, sacrifice, charity and penance purify even the great souls.
All these activities should be performed without attachment or any expectation of result. They should be performed as a matter of duty, O son of Pṛthā. That is My final opinion.
Prescribed duties should never be renounced. If one gives up his prescribed duties because of illusion, such renunciation is said to be in the mode of ignorance. (Ignorance is madness, indolence and sleep)
That action which is regulated and which is performed without attachment, without love or hatred, and without desire for fruitive results (Dopamine hits) is said to be in the mode of goodness.
It is our duty and it provides contentment, detachment and knowledge.
Its been known everywhere at pretty much all times, we're the exception.
You can't say that dudes getting raked over the coals in divorces is some sort of minority of outcomes. It's literally half of all marriages, and 80%+ of divorces are initiated by women.
Well, I make my own cheese every other day and the wife bakes bread once a week. It's doable.
Ey up!
53:00
Divorce rates are over 50% in some places, though. That's literally the majority of relationships.
Your dismissing of these concerns are counterproductive. It's not that every man thinks "women are predatory". The thing is that it would take a literal saint to divorce a man and NOT use the judicial system to get everything it can provide a divorcing woman. Divorce is fueled by bitterness, and bitterness doesn't mesh very well with autruism. Therefore, as long as laws and practices are as they are, divorce will continue being one of the most devastating things for a man. False accusations, custody, alimony, domestic "violence" laws... If you want the anti-relationship red pill culture to lose force, all of those things need to change and become reasonable/fair.
Sargon, take it awayyyyyy 🫧
Right, cause every man out there "expects" Megan Fox or something...
13,600 subs is utterly ridiculous for Alex! 100x that would be reasonable.
Whatever happened to anty far?
Going to come out, close to the ejection 😮
Scarface wants his HQ back
Problem with liberalism is it's goals are worthy, but it's methods are lazy and sloppy, with alot of collateral death.
With the relationship abuse and divorce abuse Paul Elam say' d it nicely : You have victims of it and volunteers, stop being a volunteer.
Only thing I want in a partner is that we are both attracted to each other, that they share a generally oriented world view with me (ie not see me as an Oppressor because of my skin colour or sex) and they want to build a family with me. Are these Unreasonable Internet Expectations? 😅
I like sargon and he's usually spot on in his analysis, but whenever the dating/relationship topic comes up he just goes full-on boomer.
He just doesn't understand what modern dating has become. He doesn't understand just how narcissistic and hedonistic modern women have become or how they've all deluded themselves into thinking they deserve channing Tatum despite being 275 pounds and having 2 kids. If you're even an above average man, you are flat out invisible to 80% of modern women and if you do manage to actually find one, then enjoy your coin flip of losing everything because she decides one day to just leave you because she feels like it
I don't like it because it doesn't really help the people outside the workforce for a long time to really get back in the game when they are really really in need of money. There are poor places where tons of strangers are making money when the natives can't. The time will come when the children of the people will say no.
Interesting and apropos description of liberalism though the American myth seems to have fallen off a cliff. The right and left encourage two variants of selfish focus and everyone seems to have forgotten where the middle is.
Fuck off the centrist nonsense, you lot have not only been of no benefit, it's you lots fault we're in this mess.
I always find his emphasis on the flaws of the social contract, which libertarians and most classical liberals will tell you is bullshit, really weird. He is not really going against the core of liberalism by doing so (as in, it is a weak critique). Also, liberalism is not necessarily utilitarian, as in there are clearly deontological components within its tradition. Also, duties do exist within liberalism, but they are more of the contractual kind, you are not forced into it without consent (at least when it comes to adults). To say that liberalism is destroying all bonds in society is like saying that the only way for those bonds to emerge is for there to be a coercive element, which is obviously not the case. Maybe conservatives should actually try to make FAMILIES more powerful, instead of falling to the level of their (or even our) ideological opponents and asking for an ever larger State, but in slow motion and with a different ideological framework (that very often in reality and bureaucracy becomes nothing but targeted political advertising).
15:14 That happens because currently there is an illiberal state of things in that regard (see the Civil Rights Act). That happens because there is no real freedom of association in the USA and this devolves into low trust societies.
16:35 How did this critique of liberalism turn into a critique of the WEF downright totalitarian ideal? Weird how he is weaving in those two as if they were the same (they are not).
19:23 No, those are the consequences of openly illiberal and anti-libertarian policies, such as central banking, equality of outcome, suppression of freedom of association, postmarxist ideology and neokeynesian economic policy.
25:30 Yeah, moderation is great, but the reason people stray away is partially due to all the problems previously discussed, and also because they are less likely to feel the consequences of their actions due to welfare and disdain for virtue (schizophrenically interpreted as tyranny).
I just can't quit soygon.
53:48 she dosent understand MGTOW.
It’s true that young people are not getting involved in politics, but it’s also true that they struggle to get involved. Most politicians, even local politicians, are distinguished career professionals before they’re politicians. That’s who people want to vote for and who they want to appoint. But millenials and generation z have failed to even enter professional careers let along distinguish themselves in them. The only people who get excited to vote a retail worker onto city council are left-wing activists. So until there’s a clear path to circumnavigate this problem, hoping young people get involved in local politics is a pipe dream.
Lol youre saying that no one from gen z or millennials have professional careers?? Thats just blatantly untrue..
The first part on liberalism, total crap.
The latter part on life, very good advice.
The critique of Libertarianism from Alex seem rather deranged and free of any real facts. Deregulation of the financial market? The state completely controls them. They literally control then entire monetary apparatus. They have literally dozens of alphabet agencies which set every rule for it's function to the extent that they are often able to engineer whatever legal outcomes they desire due to the sheer size and ambiguity of rules they impose, and often do so at their own whims and not through elected representatives.
Libertarianism was always limited to a discussion of the relationship between you and the state, and you and others in relation to property rights. That is it. That is a limited subset of existence. It never provided (and in my readings never pretended to provide) any comment on fulfilling any particular spiritual or moral need beyond that.
Exactly
I think the moral revelostion talk about in arouns 28:44 is starting in gen z and memes within separate sphears of the internet the devite in gen z is the stoic gym bro and the hyper degenerate femboy
Divorce rape is 50%, come on.
I think utilitarianism as political philosophies go is not a bad one. I don't think it should be used as a slur.
E.g.: You could argue young immigrants are better off staying in their home countries, for the sake of that nations long term interest. (To prevent brain drain)
However the main problem as you correctly identified is people rely on politics to save them. Young people "wear" political ideologies in lieu of cultivating an actual personality. I did too when I was younger.
Everyone's favourite cuddly midwit & DrParvini's mentor - Carl of Swindon everybody!
Oh fucking please, people have always felt obligated to call an ambulance or otherwise help people in situations like that in the US
Even if they say they don't, foreigners often think of America as one big NYC subway station
Sargon circle around the building twice, he was ashamed that not many people showed up to his liberalist coming out party... then he finally went inside the pub, drank and talked about a 20 year plan, got some donations from the people there and not two years after that fateful day he got some of his best quotes read back to him and tanked a whole political party.
For long after that he still shilled liberalism, this isn't the reason he no questions it.
It's always tiresome to watch these discussions and not hear anyone define what liberalism they're talking about. Perhaps some topics you can get away with it, but in this case there is the US/British divide of what the conception encompasses and allows Carl to perform a slick motte and bailey.
"Liberalism won two world wars and has become the global hegemonic ideology!" Nevermind that in doing, this 'liberalism' has been the polar opposite of the true 'property rights and limited government' conception of English liberty and has been growing the state and violating property rights for over a hundred years. The "liberalism has failed" narrative only makes sense if you think western society has been focused on protecting liberty since the world wars (spoiler: it hasn't).
Liberal cope
The US definition of liberalism is factually wrong, get over it.
lol, Carl. Remember Metokur absolutely decimating Sargon's political career.
Politics in the UK was destroyed decades before Carl was born. If a new party get 50% of the votes, it still will be ignored and killed off. It's like that in most western nations. If you have not been groomed and blessed in the Pinko-bonkers, WEF/EU mindvirus, you will not be able to climb to a position of influence. If someone still manage to stumble their way in, like BoJo, his big plans and promises vanished the day he got the keys to No. 10. I seriously doubt Metokurs influence to a limited audience would make much difference, for anyone.
I don't
@@nonplayercharacter596
Me neither
No one gets "tricked" into a marriage with a bad person unless they are incredibly gullible and low IQ.
Most people are well aware of the character of their partner prior to marriage and find the darkness exciting.
Its fine, we all make bad decisions and have to get ourselves out of the consequences. Things get better as soon as you start making the right choices.
Its the people who act like a victim of some random crime afterwards who are intentionally creating fear in single people for attention and creating division between the sexes.
Ehh idk about that, sudden shifts in mental and physical health can really change a person. There are also malicious manipulative people that can get their claws on a person. I still largely agree with you, but there is wiggle room.
@@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756 but even if someone is being manipulated - which is easy to do with people who grew up in broken homes - so many of those being manipulated know their partner has a bad side, they just are naive or lie to themselves in order to believe the bad parts arnt a big deal or the good out weighs the bad.
If you talk to divorced people, they can clearly see the signs in hindsight. They either allowed themselves to be isolated or lashed out at people who asked questions they didn't want to answer.
@ReginaApple007 most of the time yes, but there are the "hidden life" types where its hard to tell. I don't disagree that their is pretty much always some level of responsability or culpability on both parties and that it is useful to know where they could have done better, but there is a subset of cases where the disparity of culpability is evident.
Come up for air.
its feminism that created this division.
All it takes is for her to go off the pill and her preferences will change. It happens all the time and has been studied.
@@ReginaApple007 "Clearly see the signs in hindsight". Inhale, exhale, engage brain. Youre arguing with yourself here. Which of your positions shall we agree with? youre really coming across as a covert narc here, in plain sight. But carry on, double down and let everyone see it.