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Went into law school thinking I was going to do corporate, transactional law; came out of as criminal defense litigator. Keep your mind and heart open. Don’t let others dictate your path just because of prestige and standing.
I'm just an upcoming freshman at DePaul for Finance this fall, but your videos are great for helping me decide if Law is something I want to go into! Thank you, great videos.
1) Do companies look for certain "personalities" that fit the culture? I am between Type A & B. Since most Big Law are Type A's 2) Have you experience Burnout yet? On average, when do associate feel it? 3) Have you had second thoughts going to Big Law? 4) What scholarship did you get? How did you apply for it? Thanks
1) Every team within a firm is going to be a bit different. You're really interviewing for a department or sub-office within a team, not so much the full firm. The practice type and the team members within it will change the culture. 2) I've had some tough weeks / months. But those are to be expected. I don't know the exact stats, but I believe many associates dip out after a few years. Though a significant minority stay for the long haul from what I've seen. 3) No. It was by far the best opportunity available given my goals. It's been good so far and I like the team that I work with. 4) I got three full-ride offers. Two were offered with my admission letters, while the school I went to (Chicago-Kent) offered a full ride after I made it into their honors program, which had a separate application and interview process.
Are the hours you billed ( or for any associate) in jeporady if the client disputes them? how does that work when it comes down to hitting the "2000 hour requirement" at most firms? Once billed do you not have to worry about it as an associate and if disputed does the senior associte/partner be the one who deals with a client if that makes sense. Keep up the content!
This might differ a bit between firms, though in my experience what I bill first gets approved by a supervising attorney, and then hours or rates might be adjusted after that before they get charged to the client. But I don't lose any hours towards my annual requirement even if the final bill gets trimmed down. However, there's obviously an expectation that I do things efficiently so I'm not essentially billing time that won't be able to get charged to the client. To your dispute question, generally, most clients are going to pay what's billed regardless and will switch law firms if they think things aren't efficient. If they aren't paying because you did bad work that got sent to them, you might have other problems. And thanks!
For me, the bar exam was much harder since it's just so much content. You need to memorize so much about many areas of the law, whether you intend to practice in them or not. Not to mention the bar exam is multiple days of testing, while the LSAT is just a few hours. Though the LSAT can be more frustrating to prep for in that it's hard to improve after a point (it's much more of a skills test than a knowledge dump).
I live in NYC so of course I want to get in the big law firms here as there are so many. I thought big law firms only or mostly accepted ivy league law school graduates. So that is why I want to get into one of the ivy league schools but the costs of it are so scary. I would rather not go into ivy league but I have no options because my ultimate goal is that large associate salary. I originally wanted to go into immigration law but I don't think these firms have them so I will likely have to go into IP or real estate. Currently doing my undergrad as a junior and I will graduate next year. The idea of being $300k in debt is terrifying as someone who has never had any debt or loans with my undergrad being completely covered by FAFSA and other NYS free financial aid. And there is also my dad's $130k mortgage being added on to it which I will have to pay off because my parents have worked so hard their entire lives to provide for us and I want them to retire soon. It's just that Asian culture of taking care of your parents and reciprocating.
I would hesitate to assume that a big law job will be waiting for you at any level, even if you get into a T14 school. You never know what the job market will look like. And that's a ton of debt to take on for something far from guaranteed. That said, at a certain point you have to decide whether you want to live your own life or a life that someone else wants you to live. Tread carefully! Otherwise, if you focus on doing well in school and meeting people in the space, you'll have a lot more options than if you didn't. You can only guarantee the effort that you put in, not the specific outcome. So that makes a lot more sense to focus on. Best of luck!
Does this apply to patent law also? Or is patent law totally different. If compensation and demand for such attorneys makes sense i may look more into it.
Hey I am not a good writer and currently getting ready for the lsat. I hate writing essays, should I just back out now? I am getting good lsat practice scores 170+, I am very good at reasoning but writing papers I fully dread.
If you truly hate writing, I'd hesitate on going to law school. You'll have to write a number of intense papers and exams are typically all essays. And the practice of law involves a lot of reading and writing. Obviously, it's up to you for what you would prefer to spend your time doing. Either way, best of luck!
@@sabbnana900 I did not attend a top school and I made it in. The odds aren't as friendly but it's possible. Here's a video I did a few years back on that topic: ruclips.net/video/b48HZr_59JQ/видео.html
At times, it can be a bit mundane (particularly when it's something more administrative). But I really enjoy creative drafting & negotiations. It's ultimately a problem solving role (or maybe more accurately a "problem avoiding" role by protecting clients from future risks). And I specifically wanted to go down the real estate path, partly because it's a tangible asset that feels more "real" to work on than maybe some other areas of law. The pay helps, of course, just as with any career.
That will be tricky. Certainly not as an attorney, but potentially as an assistant or paralegal (I believe you pick up a paralegal certificate without a degree). There is a fair bit of credentialism in this field, so it's an uphill battle in many cases without a degree. In any event, do your best to build connections in the firm(s) you want to work for to have the best chance!
@@JackDuffley thanks for the reality check! I am going into law school AFTeR the lsat within the next year or two. I found your video very interesting and informative.
I'm myself planning to go to law school but the one thing that I've been told by many people is that the workload is insane and the hrs r too much and the pay isn't even that good ....is that true ? Does it get better as u move up the scale of positions over the years ?
Probably nothing beyond the typical office loadout - side bag with a notebook or notepad, potentially a lap top for the train ride, a book, and whatever's for lunch.
No, I think it was the right decision given the opportunities I had. I've met some great people to this point through law school and my young legal career. And it's been financially rewarding since I didn't have to take on debt for law school. I actually just dropped a day in the life video: ruclips.net/video/QaHI50aoLKY/видео.html But, in general, it's a lot of emailing, document review, document drafting, calls with clients, calls with the opposite side's counsel, and the like. At least in a transactional practice - no court for me! For the most part, it's the same work that any attorney would do, just above average volume (and sometimes higher pressure).
@@JackDuffley it's funny because someone asks if you really work 12-hour days and you're like "nah not usually" as if you don't have a monstrous, life-ruining workload
42 billables a week isn't exactly "monstrous." It's consistently a bit less (mid to high 30s) but occasionally much more (like 50 to 60). And they pay you well for it. But it's obviously not for everyone.
My professor worked in BigLaw. Won’t name the firm. But an ex-US-president’s name is in it. His co-worker had a heart attack at his desk. Died. And his corpse was carted out from the office. 2 weeks later, a new person filled the seat.
Yeah nah I have had a few stressful moments but it's ultimately just a job. They pay you a fair bit for the time and you can always walk away if you find it too stressful. Unless, of course, you lever up your life with a bunch of expensive items (i.e. new cars, big house) that now require the salary to get by. But that goes for any career.
Currently doing LSAT prep, getting 158s on my exams. I'm more concerned with the cost of law school and whether this career is worth the growing costs that is law school. For reference I have a biology degree, been working for about 3 years with research experience and I can tell you I definitely wish I did law or comp sci instead.
You can definitely gun for a full ride, especially if you get that LSAT a little higher. Part time school while working would be a potentially good idea as well to mitigate the financial risk. Also, if you're thinking IP law, Chicago-Kent, my alma mater, has a very strong program. Tons of former and current scientists attend C-K for that reason, so it might be a good fit if that's what you're going for. Best of luck!
@@JackDuffley I appreciate the reply! My uncle, now retired, was in IP law. He highly recommends it. Definitely something to look into. For now im just focused on breaking a 160!
![Day in the Life of a 1st Year Associate [Big Law]](/img/1.gif)
There's still time to enter my 2022 kick off giveaway!
Enter for a chance to win a free copy of my real estate book here: jackduffley.com/2022kickoffgiveaway
Went into law school thinking I was going to do corporate, transactional law; came out of as criminal defense litigator.
Keep your mind and heart open. Don’t let others dictate your path just because of prestige and standing.
I'm just an upcoming freshman at DePaul for Finance this fall, but your videos are great for helping me decide if Law is something I want to go into! Thank you, great videos.
1) Do companies look for certain "personalities" that fit the culture? I am between Type A & B. Since most Big Law are Type A's
2) Have you experience Burnout yet? On average, when do associate feel it?
3) Have you had second thoughts going to Big Law?
4) What scholarship did you get? How did you apply for it?
Thanks
1) Every team within a firm is going to be a bit different. You're really interviewing for a department or sub-office within a team, not so much the full firm. The practice type and the team members within it will change the culture.
2) I've had some tough weeks / months. But those are to be expected. I don't know the exact stats, but I believe many associates dip out after a few years. Though a significant minority stay for the long haul from what I've seen.
3) No. It was by far the best opportunity available given my goals. It's been good so far and I like the team that I work with.
4) I got three full-ride offers. Two were offered with my admission letters, while the school I went to (Chicago-Kent) offered a full ride after I made it into their honors program, which had a separate application and interview process.
@@JackDuffley Thank you!!
@@OiVinn-eq1ml No problem - thanks for watching!
Thanks! Great informative video!
Thank you!
Are the hours you billed ( or for any associate) in jeporady if the client disputes them? how does that work when it comes down to hitting the "2000 hour requirement" at most firms? Once billed do you not have to worry about it as an associate and if disputed does the senior associte/partner be the one who deals with a client if that makes sense. Keep up the content!
This might differ a bit between firms, though in my experience what I bill first gets approved by a supervising attorney, and then hours or rates might be adjusted after that before they get charged to the client. But I don't lose any hours towards my annual requirement even if the final bill gets trimmed down. However, there's obviously an expectation that I do things efficiently so I'm not essentially billing time that won't be able to get charged to the client.
To your dispute question, generally, most clients are going to pay what's billed regardless and will switch law firms if they think things aren't efficient. If they aren't paying because you did bad work that got sent to them, you might have other problems.
And thanks!
Congrats man. I'm so glad it worked out for you!
Thanks!
@@JackDuffleyBig law firm are worse than worst
Please sir make a video training contract
Great vid 💯
Thank you!
Nice work
Thanks!
really helpful and encouraging!
Great to hear - thanks!
Can we actually see examples of your work?I know their might be some security issues but would be great to see some examples!
How hard is the Bar compared to the LSAT?
For me, the bar exam was much harder since it's just so much content. You need to memorize so much about many areas of the law, whether you intend to practice in them or not. Not to mention the bar exam is multiple days of testing, while the LSAT is just a few hours.
Though the LSAT can be more frustrating to prep for in that it's hard to improve after a point (it's much more of a skills test than a knowledge dump).
I live in NYC so of course I want to get in the big law firms here as there are so many. I thought big law firms only or mostly accepted ivy league law school graduates. So that is why I want to get into one of the ivy league schools but the costs of it are so scary. I would rather not go into ivy league but I have no options because my ultimate goal is that large associate salary. I originally wanted to go into immigration law but I don't think these firms have them so I will likely have to go into IP or real estate. Currently doing my undergrad as a junior and I will graduate next year. The idea of being $300k in debt is terrifying as someone who has never had any debt or loans with my undergrad being completely covered by FAFSA and other NYS free financial aid. And there is also my dad's $130k mortgage being added on to it which I will have to pay off because my parents have worked so hard their entire lives to provide for us and I want them to retire soon. It's just that Asian culture of taking care of your parents and reciprocating.
I would hesitate to assume that a big law job will be waiting for you at any level, even if you get into a T14 school. You never know what the job market will look like. And that's a ton of debt to take on for something far from guaranteed.
That said, at a certain point you have to decide whether you want to live your own life or a life that someone else wants you to live. Tread carefully!
Otherwise, if you focus on doing well in school and meeting people in the space, you'll have a lot more options than if you didn't. You can only guarantee the effort that you put in, not the specific outcome. So that makes a lot more sense to focus on.
Best of luck!
Does this apply to patent law also? Or is patent law totally different. If compensation and demand for such attorneys makes sense i may look more into it.
Patent law is a bit of its own world, but, yes, there are significant IP departments at many big law firms.
Hey I am not a good writer and currently getting ready for the lsat. I hate writing essays, should I just back out now? I am getting good lsat practice scores 170+, I am very good at reasoning but writing papers I fully dread.
If you truly hate writing, I'd hesitate on going to law school. You'll have to write a number of intense papers and exams are typically all essays. And the practice of law involves a lot of reading and writing. Obviously, it's up to you for what you would prefer to spend your time doing.
Either way, best of luck!
Can I get to work at Big law even if I didn’t attend an Ivy League school or a big law school
@@sabbnana900 I did not attend a top school and I made it in. The odds aren't as friendly but it's possible.
Here's a video I did a few years back on that topic: ruclips.net/video/b48HZr_59JQ/видео.html
i want to do personal injury so i think big law would not be for me instead try going for the big personal injury firms instead maybe
Best of luck! Experience just about anywhere will help when you're just starting out.
is the work itself enjoyable? or is enjoyment just an unfortunate casualty of getting a high legal career income?
At times, it can be a bit mundane (particularly when it's something more administrative). But I really enjoy creative drafting & negotiations. It's ultimately a problem solving role (or maybe more accurately a "problem avoiding" role by protecting clients from future risks). And I specifically wanted to go down the real estate path, partly because it's a tangible asset that feels more "real" to work on than maybe some other areas of law. The pay helps, of course, just as with any career.
What questions do you have about big law and practicing law as a career?
Yes, can an aspiring law student work in Big Law without the law degree?
That will be tricky. Certainly not as an attorney, but potentially as an assistant or paralegal (I believe you pick up a paralegal certificate without a degree). There is a fair bit of credentialism in this field, so it's an uphill battle in many cases without a degree.
In any event, do your best to build connections in the firm(s) you want to work for to have the best chance!
@@JackDuffley thanks for the reality check! I am going into law school AFTeR the lsat within the next year or two. I found your video very interesting and informative.
It's not impossible! But just keep pressing forward and you'll be alright 👍
Best of luck!
I'm myself planning to go to law school but the one thing that I've been told by many people is that the workload is insane and the hrs r too much and the pay isn't even that good ....is that true ? Does it get better as u move up the scale of positions over the years ?
what is your Everyday carry in Big Law
Probably nothing beyond the typical office loadout - side bag with a notebook or notepad, potentially a lap top for the train ride, a book, and whatever's for lunch.
Do you regret going to law school? also, what do lawyers at big law do at work?
No, I think it was the right decision given the opportunities I had. I've met some great people to this point through law school and my young legal career. And it's been financially rewarding since I didn't have to take on debt for law school.
I actually just dropped a day in the life video: ruclips.net/video/QaHI50aoLKY/видео.html
But, in general, it's a lot of emailing, document review, document drafting, calls with clients, calls with the opposite side's counsel, and the like. At least in a transactional practice - no court for me! For the most part, it's the same work that any attorney would do, just above average volume (and sometimes higher pressure).
lol 6 hours a day 7 days a week hahahahaha
6 hours billed lol
@@roop-a-loop yes?
@@JackDuffley it's funny because someone asks if you really work 12-hour days and you're like "nah not usually" as if you don't have a monstrous, life-ruining workload
42 billables a week isn't exactly "monstrous." It's consistently a bit less (mid to high 30s) but occasionally much more (like 50 to 60). And they pay you well for it. But it's obviously not for everyone.
@@JackDuffley Seems pretty monstrous. Did you go straight to law or did you do something else in between?
Big laws are shit
My professor worked in BigLaw. Won’t name the firm. But an ex-US-president’s name is in it.
His co-worker had a heart attack at his desk. Died. And his corpse was carted out from the office. 2 weeks later, a new person filled the seat.
Yeah nah I have had a few stressful moments but it's ultimately just a job. They pay you a fair bit for the time and you can always walk away if you find it too stressful. Unless, of course, you lever up your life with a bunch of expensive items (i.e. new cars, big house) that now require the salary to get by. But that goes for any career.
Currently doing LSAT prep, getting 158s on my exams. I'm more concerned with the cost of law school and whether this career is worth the growing costs that is law school. For reference I have a biology degree, been working for about 3 years with research experience and I can tell you I definitely wish I did law or comp sci instead.
You can definitely gun for a full ride, especially if you get that LSAT a little higher. Part time school while working would be a potentially good idea as well to mitigate the financial risk.
Also, if you're thinking IP law, Chicago-Kent, my alma mater, has a very strong program. Tons of former and current scientists attend C-K for that reason, so it might be a good fit if that's what you're going for.
Best of luck!
@@JackDuffley I appreciate the reply! My uncle, now retired, was in IP law. He highly recommends it. Definitely something to look into. For now im just focused on breaking a 160!
@@shawnt5205 right on!
Its an request please give any contact details of your I have many questions to ask ... Please help me out.... Its an request please ❤
You can try one of my socials linked in the description
This is great, thank you so much for this video!!
Thanks for watching!