Guitar Rant#1 Fretboards Should Be Flat, Not Curved!!!
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- Let's turn this into the next "tonewood debate." By "flat", I mean completely flat, infinite radius. Curved fretboards make everything harder, including chords, and they don't sound better. I forgot to mention: there are less issues with flat fingerboards as the frets become worn, and it's easier to match the string to string volume on the pickups. I don't see any positives to a radiused fretboard. I know the conventional wisdom says that it's easier to play chords if the fretboard is curved, but I have not found that to be true and the explanations don't make sense to me. Feel free to argue in the comments. I know most guitarists disagree with me and this is controversial. The guitars: 1995 PRS Standard 24, LaPatrie Etude. Zoom Q3HD camera. Rant #2 • Guitar Rant #2. Othe...
I've always thought this - for 60 years. Always easier to play on my classicals than on steel strings.
Playing classical guitars was eye opening for me.
I did classical guitar at degree level however I found a radiused board much better. Yes if you want an exceptionally low action then a flatter radius is better especially for a shredder. Dave Gilmour manages those huge bends on a 7 1/4 radius board.
I much prefer a flat fret board too. "like guitars like my planet, flat" 😳
Hahahaha
Remember, not everyone's a lead player that plays with a 'textbook' technique which the flatter fretboard caters to, many rhythm and bluesy players play with the Hendrix style thumb over fretboard technique. Also, higher action is more comfortable on radiused guitars compared to flatter. Flatter board + low action makes chords easier in one way with how the lower action means you have to press down less, but it also means you have to put your hand in a slightly less natural position compared to a more curved radius and for less advanced players who don't have that correct technique, this is much less comfortable. So it's whichever you prefer, low action with worse hand position or higher action but more natural hand position. It's only small differences but It's just whatever you get used to. I wouldn't necessarily say one is 'Better' than the other like you did. Flatter radius is definitely better for bending and lower action is of course better for lead playing but you also have more potential to get fret buzz with flatter and lower action so any rhythm player who strums a lot of chords hard would prefer the more curved radius for what they play. Just because you prefer a flat board doesn't mean there aren't benefits for other players :)
It’s crazy how few manufacturers offer this as an option. In fact it’s such a ball ache to find that I’ve just ended up building my own 😆
You can do what Eric Johnson does, buy an old Strat and flatten the fretboard to your preferred specs. Although, us regular folks would destroy the value of the instrument by doing that. Ha.
@@JoeHew just looked that up and apparently he reradiuses the frets to a 12 radius. Seems a better bet just to get a flatter board but hey ho 😆😃
I must say I agree with you. After all, I could see why a company like Fender, that used to make 7.25" radius fretboards, opted for a half way 9.5". I've heard others argue ''Yeah but Hendrix, Gilmour and Clapton played on a 7.25" fretboards'' but they're missing a HUGE element in this...they had their own personal guitar technicians. So whatever people think they're playing, it's nothing compared to what those guys actually played. A flatter fretboard just makes more sense. You don't have to put nearly as much pressure in chording than you do with the more curved fretboards. Also, lower radius fretboards will have lots of choking on heavy bends, forcing you to set up for a higher action.
I really dug how deep you dove into the topic. Sharing my personal experience, I started on an Ibanez wizard thin modern d neck profile with a 17” radius. To this day it’s one of my favorite necks but I always struggled and had to put what felt like a ton of effort into bar chords. Got a schecter with a 14” radius and noticed it was slightly more natural feeling. I eventually added some PRS and Strats to my collection of axes which have 10” and 9.5” radius. I can whole heartedly say that triads on the upper strings and bar chords feel much more natural to the curve of my hand on a
Meant to type “the shorter scale length on les Paul’s”
If anything, it's an interesting discussion. I appreciate your input. I have had many guitarist tell me they're more comfortable playing chords with a curved fretboard. I have never found it more difficult to play chords on a flatter fretboard. It may have something to do with the characteristics of a persons hands. I usually use thicker strings on shorter scale guitars, probably because I played strats for a long time.
You voiced what I thought about for a long time. Absolutely agree. I personally find it easier to play on a flat fretboard. it's faster, the strings sound more accurate and the hand feels in the right place
My tele has a 9.5 radius and it totally sucks. I will order a neck from a Warmoth with a 16 radius.
I played strats for years, I just couldn't handle having higher action after I got carpal tunnel syndrome. A 16" radius is better than 9.5".
@@JoeHew I hope you'll get rid of this syndrome soon.
Tbh I'm the opposite - I love curved fingerboards (like 7.25"). But I also play in that Hendrix-bluesy kinda style with my thumb over the fretboard so it's a very personal preference. Totally respect your point though!
But I hate the fact that 99% of affordable guitars have the 9.5" radius. I get that it's a decent compromise between different sizes but I'd love to find an affordable 7.25" guitar...
Have you tried the fender vintera series? I think those have 7.25 inch radiuses
I'm building a guitar from scratch and I think I might just do a flat fretboard, my squire acoustic has a flat fretboard and I prefer it to my strats, this will save me sooo much time and money with the build aswell, good vid
Thank you. I'm glad you found it informative.
Hi Joe. I totally agree. There are weeks that I was searching about that matter. My Strat has a 9,5 inch radius, and it hurts. But I must also say, that "my" luthier showed me last week that the thickness of the neck was the first answer to my "problem". Now I'm looking for a thicker neck, but I remain convinced that a flatter radius allows significantly more things. Thanks.
You're very welcome. I have had problems with a neck being too narrow as well. I'm actually a big fan of Strats and I played them for years, I wish they had more options with a flatter fretboard. I had an HM strat that was great, I should have kept it.
I've felt the same way about any neck radii under 12 inches for a long time. That’s said, I took classical lessons on a classical guitar for a good while; I never got used to a perfectly flat fingerboard. It feels completely weird and unnatural to me, even after practicing for many hours. A 15 to 16 inch radius seems to be the sweet spot for me, but I have adapted to enjoy all sorts of radii, including the 7.25 on my Telecaster. The only logic that makes sense to me is that when the hands relaxed, the fingers are curved. If you put your hand in front of your face, holding your fingers completely straight, you’ll actually notice there’s a lot of tension and stress in the hand. (At least I do,) Try relaxing the fingers completely and you’ll see the fingers want to come down to form that same curve you see in the fingerboard. Maybe that was the thinking?
I agree! The flatter the better for me. I had a beautiful “24 fret Ibanez Joe Satriani signature model,” but it had to go. The fretboard radius was terrible to play on.
It wasn’t any better for chords, high e string would slip off the fretboard from time to time, because of the steep radius and strings kept choking out unless I played with very high action.
I’ve just pre-ordered myself the new “Ibanez QX series Headless Guitar,” one of the selling points for me was it’s has a very flat fingerboard. (20” radius I think)
Making any guitar fingerboard “round like a baseball bat” is one of the most impractical things they could come up with.
A 20" radius is hard to come by. I bet that guitar you ordered was influenced by John Petrucci, he has at least one signature model with the same fretboard radius.
@@JoeHew Didn’t end up with the 20” radius guitar in the end. They were low on stock and I couldn’t wait, so I ended up getting an ESP H-1001 guitar (with a 14“ radius it think) not as flat but it plays
like a dream 🙂.
Imho, one thing i been becoming aware recently is that there are a huge amount of obsolete design traits in electric guitars. Specially in the older designs. Some say it's the beauty of them and the magic for making music, but i think they are a pain in the ass. Many guitar customers guide themselves by industry myhts and no real facts about function over looks.
There are so many issues with modern guitar companies. I haven't found one brand that makes a guitar to my specifications. Hanging on to tradition only makes sense if there are no better designs. Les Pauls headstocks are prone to breaking, stratocasters fretboards are too round, Rickenbackers are a pain to change strings on...
the radius is mostly for comfort for chords, not really bends or lead playing, one of the most comfortable guitar necks ive ever played was a fender roadworn strat with v shaped neck and 7 1/4" radius, especially really high chords on the neck, my warwick bass is almost flat at 20" and thats my least favorite part about it other than noisy pickups, if it was more rounded it would feel so much better especially with rolled fingerboard edged, also classical guitars look flat but actually have a slightly concave shape to the fingerboard to let the lower tension strings resonate fully, its a compromise that works for most players but i could understand wanting a dead flat fingerboard if you play the classical way with your thumb on the back of the neck
as a member of the classical guitar crew, i agree
They got it right with classical guitars.
btw, *can anyone put a list of the "flattest radius" guitar models?* my first electric was a Yamaha (they use 13.7" radius) so it was comfortable coming from classical... by the time i finally got myself a proper strat i just couldn't point out what felt wrong ... had to go to the yamaha website... why would 2 guitars, same scale, feel so different... anyway, to this day i dont know what to get that has a flat neck and looks "classy" enough.😱
Loving the lack of hate in this comment section!
I was wondering thisyself as a poor quality guitarist but im iterested 8n building guitars and i always wondered "why are feetbods curved, surely flat would be easier all round?
Turns out, everyone is different. Who knew 😂
Interesting points. I own a 7.25" guitar and two Ibanez with way flatter boards. I enjoy the way the curved board handles; thumb over the top guy here. I also feel more connected to the instrument if it demands a bit of attention, some people call it "fighting back". I don't feel like fighting it, but I definitely play more purposefully. On the Ibanez necks, and I love those too, I fall back into a bad habit of scale-runs. But take my experience with a grain of salt: My playing style and taste changed over the years, not really into humbuckers anymore, so the change in playing I assume is due to the neck is definitely also influenced by missing the single coil response, etc...
A lot of the reasons I built an electric with a flat fretboard.
l disagree ,as with a neurological hand problem , l prefer a rounder fretboard radius which is more comfortable for me especially for bar chording. It seemed like Hendrix handled the 7.25 radius of the strat's in that pre ,and CBS Fender era.
Most people are on the same page as you. If this video gets many more views, I imagine it will be apparent that my opinion is in the minority. I've managed to hold off carpal tunnel syndrome by switching to flatter fretboards. I struggled with it for years. I don't have to practice as much with a flatter fretboard and I never found it more difficult to play chords on one, even though I started on an acoustic with a 10" radius. Comfort and familiarity are closely related, I think that is why many people stick with what they are used to. I believe that an unfamiliar instrument will be more difficult to play, temporarily, until the new becomes normal. Yes, many classic rock and country guitar masters used guitars with a 7.25" inch radius and you can work past that limitation. I've heard some people say they like to fight with their guitar when they play it and I definitely have to fight a rounder fretboard. I'm also constantly experimenting, so I'm used to making changes, even with guitar picks.
I'm dealing with a neurological injury too (brachial plexus injury). I found thinner necks help with feeling more comfortable along with 9 gauge strings. I need low action and I love to bend. Flatter radius is my go to for that.
All true, I learned it the hard way.
You’re right. The ONLY advantage I’ve found with the low radius is thumb over chording and/or a very low hold. Even then, a good edge roll would do that too. Given something in the 12-16” range, a deep or shallow C, and a good rolled edge.
If you own more than one guitar you know that each one, even ones that are the same model, can feel differently. If you like your guitar, even if only for the way it looks, you're going to pick it up and, if you find you have to adjust your approach to playing slightly, you do it. Arguing over what's better of worse (flat, round or compound), is fruitless as it is totally subjective. Like if you always coveted a particular guitar for years and finally get it only to find out the neck's profile or fingerboard radius isn't what you thought it was going to be like, you'll adjust to it. It's what people do.
I agree dude, thinking about building my first guitar with flat fretboard
It's probably easier and cheaper to build one, because hardly any companies make one with a flat fretboard.
I love, love low action I grew up paying Ibanez, Jackson, Charvel. I bought an USA strat in the 90's with a 9.5 radius, lowered the action and my string bends were choking bad. A guitar tech flattened frets 15 through 21 which did help. I have been searching for a custom Strat neck with a 20 degree radius. On the flip side, Yngwie plays a 9.5 radius fretboard with jumbo frets and a scalloped neck. We all know that guy bends for days and shreds at the speed of light.
Yngwie also get issues with tendonitis. I've been there, carpal tunnel syndrome is worse. Yngwie's scalloped frets make it so you don't have to press as hard, but you have to be more precise. A scalloped fretboard with a short radius means, you still have to have high action if you bend the strings. Eric Johnson flattens his Strats to a 12" radius. Sorry for the late reply. I'd rather have a flat fretboard with tiny frets than a scalloped fretboard with a 7.25" radius, although having a flat and scalloped fretboard with jumbo frets is appealing to me.
I totally agree. Even Fender is gradually moving towards flatter, compound radii which I don't recall seeing 20 years ago when I purchased my first Strat.
I've organically moved from 7.25 → 9.5 → 12 (all Fenders). I'm looking to buy Suhr this year and my must have spec is 16". It's just so much easier to play on flatter board.
Of course, there are exceptions to the rule: Satriani on 10", Roy Buchanan on 9.25" etc but I'm neither.
It would be nice to see more companies give flatter options.
Just bought a fender with 11 inch radius my previous strat has 9.5...so I'm hoping 11 is better... I think it will be though but you're right a curved fretboard really doesn't make sense when you think about it..
Hopefully well have more options eventually. An 11" radius should be a significant improvement.
This is my biggest gripe with Fender. I love the tones but those single digit radius necks are the death of me. Instant fatigue and excess tension, especially since I got diagnosed with carptal tunnel last year. I have to custom with Warmoth replacement necks if I ever want a Strat or Tele
I've thought about getting a custom neck, or flattening the fretboard on my current guitars. Eric Johnson had his vintage strats flattened to a 12" radius, that's tolerable. I never cared about it until I was diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome. I've owned more strats than any other guitar, I just can't play them for too long.
Same. I wanted a Fender lately, but those fuckers break my wrist! I had to build one with Warmoth. Got a ‘59 round back with 12” radius. I wonder if I shoulda gone flatter. I just know that a modern C and 9.5” radius is BULLSHIT!
@@justinTime077 try the ultraluxe neck. 10-14 inch I think
Trade in that PRS and get a 20" radius Kiesel IMO. I have an Osiris with a 20" radius and it's awesome.
I haven't tried a Keisel yet, I'm a long time fan of Carvin stuff. I'll have to check them out. Other than the fretboard radius and the tuning machine gear ratio, that PRS is about perfect and I'm a bit attached to it.
I wonder why Fender's electrics were all 7.25 radius for a long time...never heard Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Gilmour, Knopfler etc etc complaining about this damn radius...guess it's down to playing style.
I come from the nylon string guitar. There's no electric guitar that I find optimal or even convenient for playing complex fingerpicking (like Bach, or most classical pieces). The curved fretboard is a minor issue compared to the much smaller nut width on Fender, Gibson and others. Not that the 51mm is necessary for playing electric, but 41-42… that's too narrow.
I read somewhere that the reason was that when Gibson first started out, they incorporated violin elements like the F hole and the curved fretboard (where it makes sense because of the bow). People have been playing plucked instruments for centuries, and they've always been flat. Nobody plays more complex and technical chordal stuff than classical players -- not even your jazz guitar gods -- and they all have flat fretboards.
I have a 20inch fretboard for the first time. And I never want it again. Especially with distortion it is hard to mute the unwantes noises which was less problem for me on lower radius fretboards. Also the bendings feel super unnatural.
For classical guitars, yes. But for electric especially with overdrive tones an big no.
All Travis Bean guitars and basses have flat fingerboards.
I have 5 electric guitars with flat radius (infinite radius, without curve) and is very comfortable to me, it works better than curved fretboards in my opinion
I'm interested what models you have.
@@JoeHew Hi Joe. I did it myself with several models: with a stratocaster and with several Cort. After buying them I removed the frets, then sanded the fingerboard with a flat sanding block, and then put in new frets. This work can be entrusted to a luthier, to do it on any model if guitar (that has adjustable saddles on the bridge, to adapt It to the flat radius). If you want, tell me what your email is and i sent you photos.
Why not try a compound radius? If your guitar is bolt-on you can easily get a replacement neck from Warmoth and they offer several different options. They have 7.25, 9.5, and then 0.5 inch increments up to 16" radius straight necks, and a 9.5-14, 10-16, and 12-16 compound option.
Just got a early east German made marlin Strat. It was way too cheap to pass up, pretty much given to me... Fretboard is totally flat, I've never thought about
radius of fretboards too much before. I kinda think it affects the feel of the guitar, not sure if I like the feel but you make some interesting points. I dunno if it'd catch on, it only seems to be accepted in shredding guitars...
Most of the more technical players like them flat. Classical players consider it sacrilege to curve the fretboard. Yngwie still uses a 9.5" radius, that's probably why he gets tendinitis issues.
I'm not sure about a fully flat board but I have 2 Godin LGs with 16" radius fretboard and I absolutely love them. I have no problem making chords on them either. To me the thing that makes making chords harder is the width of the nut, for my hand I need 42mm but most guitars have 43-44mm and that's annoying.
I agree my friend. Everything is more easy with flat radius.Greetings from Greece.
Thanks for watching.
I like a flat neck. So much more control & easier to play scales at any speed. I'm a Rock player mainly but started with Metal in the late 80's early 90's. My playing has mellowed over time. But I still like to thrash & rip out some searing licks sometimes. Flat neck makes it better in My opinion. Cheers Y/All.
I play all styles, flat fretboards aren't just for metal players. Although, I learned a lot about technique from learning some metal.
Iam looking for a semihollow single cut flat fretboard guitar... I think it doesn’t exist
It would be hard to find one. Thankfully, semi hollow guitars usually have about a 12" radius, which isn't too bad.
My Harley Benton has a 350mm fret radius. I thoroughly enjoy playing on that radius.
That's tolerable for me.
Which HB model you have? I have the SC Custom FR, I hate the goddam neck. Currenlty pulling out some Steve Vai, Megadeth, and some 80s solos, currently planning to get a custom guitar with flat neck.
@@jesuzleonardo CST24 with P90s. The fretboard is fairly flat, but it is a chunky neck if you compare it to Ibanez. lol
@@TheShayneMay I have just checked the specs on mine, and it is also 350mm, when I got this guitar I didn´t had problems, but as I started playing more fast and tricky solos I felt it... I guess they are not bad, depends on the style of playing.
@Jay World I like it. The only thing I regret is not getting a hard tail version. I don't really care for wammy bars. I do have some Rev. Willy's 7s on there and it plays pretty smooth though. I am tempted to get new pickups, and new pots though. I got a buddy who has one with humbuckers, and those sound decent, but the P90s are a little weak for my tastes. Overall, damn good for $200, even if I have to spend some to fix the electronics.
I agree with you. I came from the classical guitar and I think fretboard should be flat. It is physics here...
I couldn’t agree more…. With everything you said!!👍
The curved radius is the reason why I never liked the prs I owned
They have their redeeming qualities for me. I'm still a major PRS fan.
I think there is truth in what you get used to feels good to you. My relatively newly acquired s-style guitar has a 12”-14” or 12”-16” compound radius board and I’m struggling with how flat it is. In fairness, it is a pretty beefy neck. My (very) old Carvin is 10” and it feels “right,” but it is small everywhere.
I am very interested in flat fretboards too, never tried it!
Closest I have tried personally are Ibanez RG and Fender HM Strat at 17" radius
It's worth a try, especially if you're a technical player.
@@JoeHew Too bad they are very-very-uncommon :) I dont know of anything else than Shawn Lane Vigier that does this
As a newer guitarist I kind of wondered how I’d ever get to try something with a 16+ radius at an affordable price. All of the options for a flat fretboard seem way out of my reach. I decided to build my own guitar since no one offers what I want.
Good luck with the build. You can find cheaper shred guitars with flatter fretboards from Ibanez, LTD, Schecter and a few other companies, but that might not be your style. There isn't a guitar company that makes a guitar to my specs either.
@@JoeHew Thanks! All I have is a strat copy as my first guitar, with a neck that was cut wrong. So I was looking to replace that. I wouldn't mind looking at other guitars but I've already spent the money on parts. I'm keeping it simple with an eBay partscaster with an offset body. Scalloped a cheap neck already, flattening and refretting another, kind of just want to explore more options without paying the price. Also, Shawn Lane's signature is a flat fretboard, found that interesting while looking around.
Maybe you could draw out your ideal guitar and make a video on that as well. Have a good one!
@@fooglez Schecter has a lot of variants with 14 and 16.
@@SheepWaveMeByeBye Hey bro! Thanks for the suggestion
@@fooglez there are more and more metal players who prefer a flatter radius, Mark Holcomb for example has a signature model out with 20 inch radius
Haha dude how high do you need to bend!? Nahh I feel you and respect to you. If you have a chance to reply; I have just put my guitar in for a re-radius to 10". How low can your string action go on that 10" board? Are you happy with your action (extreme bends aside)?
Music Man makes some great, flat necks too. I love their JRichards guitar.
try leveling your frets, I've always used a 7.25 radius with a relatively low action and can bend without any issues as long as my setup is just right (also, Mr. David Gilmour also uses 7.25 radius and well, you know how he plays....)
Yes but he's not playing with very low action.
@@kpgpwi64 I'd rather have a comfortable neck where I can do almost anything than a flat one where I can only shred
@@geras2058 there's nothing you can't do on a flat neck that you can do on a curved one. There are plenty of things you can't do on a curved fretboard that you can do on a flat one however
@@kpgpwi64 name one besides doing a 2 and a half tone bend
@@geras2058 doing a whole step bend with comfortable action
Yup, I have a 16 inch radius on my 50's strat which had 7.25 inch before, so much more playable in every regard now, 100% agree with you !
16 inch is not flat tho. That is still curved.
Flat means = NO radius.
I enjoy all different fret radius but 10" feels the best to me for overall playing. But man, nothing beats shredding on a flat neck.
Harley Benton makes a guitar identical to your red prs but with a 14" radius, the cst-24.
Do you think a 12 radius is flat enough to set into low action?
I think most people play with incorrect technique and prefer radius'ed fretboards to accommodate their mistakes.
They want to put the thumb over.
I have an injury in the middle finger (lack of flesh on the top) and playing a flat fretboard is a challenge.. I'm trying to find what will suit me..
Currently have a PRS, so 10" is fine and quite curvy..
Played a 14" and it was fine..
My dream guitar is a headless Kiesel with a 20" radius.. I'll check my friend's classical to see if the finger is too uncomfortable
Great vid, thanks!
It's interesting to hear different perspectives. I've been performing with PRS guitars almost exclusively, because of their quality. All of them have a 10" radius, so I can tolerate it. When I need to learn an excessive amount of material or a very difficult piece of music, I pick up my Ibanez RG.
why not just by a acustic ? or just change the fretboard , no problem
It’s strange. I either like a 20”, 9.5”, or 12” inch. Nothing in between though. 20” is by far my favorite.
Hey! Very awesome video!
I had a follow up question. I currently have an ESP with a 14 inch radius. It has been pretty nice to play on but I am getting ready to design my own custom guitar.
I was tossing between 17 and 20 inch for the radius but after watching this, wondering if I should just go flat.
The question I had is I am quite particular and have dealt with guitar playing injuries before in the past so do not want to risk getting something that may aggravate that.
I play a lot of fast metal - things like Sylosis, trivium, Dream Theater etc, so I play a range of rhythm and lead.
What would a flat feel like compared to something like a 20 inch? Would anything be harder or would it all just be easier? I have never in my life played a classical guitar so that is why I am unsure how it might feel and also I don't think playing one would get the right feel as the neck size is different, strings are different etc.
Harley Benton sc custom II fr 14 inch fretboard
I had this Partscaster once with a cheap no name neck with a 20 inch radius and it was a great player.
That's unusual, I probably would have hung on to that one.
I value playing with lots of vibrato and sliding. Curved boards just don't do it for me anymore. I don't have the dough to drop on a Vigier and as good as their guitars are they're a little too wide and heavy for my frame. Don't quote me on this but I've heard Hufschmid Guitars make zero radius fretboards. Has anybody here tried them?
A good set up and fret leveling can make a major difference, even if the fretboard is curved. Yes, it's easier to work with a flatter fretboard, but, quality is the most important factor in playability. Companies that use flatter fretboards generally use wider necks(Classical guitar influence). I'm not yet familiar with Hufschmid guitars. I'll do some research. There are companies that make custom necks for common guitars.
Anatomy has left the chat
This video should be shown to every guitar player and manufacturer! I had the opinion of curved fretboards (
I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
No it's not. 7.25" is best for chords. 12" is for lead guitar style.
@@danejurus69 After playing both, I enjoyed the 9.25 Fender neck a lot. I didn't much the radius as much as a fat neck , which I definitely enjoy.
Makes sense
I just arrived here because the new PRS SE silver sky just dropped, and the radius is 8.25, (I think) and I'm confused because most of the guitars I'm looking at are 12 average.
I'm considering a guitar right now that has a 14 inch radius and I'm totally confused. Guess I have to go and play at the store but in 2022 that's more difficult for me and they don't have much stock it seems.
Thanks for the info.
I found the radius board easier to play🤗
Yngwie called, he said. " shhhhhh fetus ". Good post though, interesting.
I like the flatter boards too
Classical players and shredders are about the only people that know, flatter fretboards are better.
Getting ready to convert a 1988 Casio PG 380 synth guitar (strat) maple neck with 22 fret Ebony board from 25.5 to 24.75 scale (14" radius to a FLAT 24 fret) using a dragon inlay fret board. Any thoughts ?
One thing I do not understand is WHY do they radius the neck heel and pocket on popular bolt on necks ? Should be right angles and straight so the neck does not point to the sky or ground when it wants to....
I personally didn't encounter guitars with curved bolt-on neck pockets and neck heels, but I would presume that they do it in order to increase the area of contact of the neck and and the body. Probably, for better sustain.
@@inquisitivenessandcontempl9918 Maybe I am not clear. The "Radius"I am referring to is not the bottom flat of the pocket or the flat of the neck heel connection.
The connection between the pick up area wood and neck connection.
That's the only reason why I don't like fenders. Those small fretboard radius make everything feel horrible, even barre chords, there's no advantage at all. I know they have 12" radius, but many companies achieved that at a lower price and sound as good or better.
Fender does a lot of things right, but the radius keeps me from buying them anymore. Their HM series is interesting to me, and I like the SRV and Eric Johnson models.
I didn’t know Srv preferred a flatter radius and jumbo frets. Most guitar players I like play with flatter radius and jumbo frets. I’m not gonna lie I have a strat with the 9.5 radius which I play everyday but my left hand can’t get used to it. I soon as play my other guitars it feels like I been playing for more years lol
I know you don’t need that much movement for blues but those small movements are still uncomfortable for me on a 9.5
Harley Benton sc custom II fr 14 inch fretboard
I have yet to play one of those, I'll have to check out the company.
Making a non radius strat neck. Flat. See how it plays...
Jackson Dinky’s have pretty flat fingerboards. I’m a flat board fan for sure.
To anyone here looking for a guitar with a flat board, there’s the Vigier Shawn Lane model.
Shawn Lane is one of my favorite players. I want to play one of those Vigiers. I know that the neck reinforcement they put in those guitars probably works great, but I'm hesitant to buy that model because it doesn't have an adjustable truss rod. I like to change string gauge often. It's more work to adjust each individual saddle/or the bridge than to turn a nut on the neck.
@JoeHew you don't have to do that either. No need to adjust any relief. I've been doing a lot of research on Vigier recently.
As far as string gauge, you would have to adjust action regardless of the guitar.
I hate curved boards... I need at LEAST a 14 inch radius .. and I'd like it at 18 inch
Bang on here with some of the points. Compound radius is just a ball ache to me. I like my radius to stay the same. I noticed this when I grabbed an ibanez. I liked the flatter radius. Think it was 16. Fancy trying a 20. Kiesel offer this. 👍
I've played a PRS for 15 years and its my go-to guitar. Still, when I pick up my ESP I glide effortlessly over its 14" radius. I really wish PRS would step outside of its 10" bubble, its very narrow minded to say "this is it." Even Fender has offered the strat in a 12 and compound radius.
Even though I don't like everything about them, PRS is still my go to company as well, they're just so good. I was glad to see Fender restart the HM series, I had one and I wish I never sold it.
yep...ive known this for a decade...ive scoured the planet for guitars with steel strings and flat fretboards...they dont exist...thank fendur and gibson.
Blame fiddle players and Martin. Ha. At least Martins have a 16" fretboard radius instead of 7.25"(Fender). The Martin guitar company was pressured into putting a curve in the fretboard by instrumentalists that used a bow(violinists etc.), because the players were more comfortable with a curve, it makes a lot of sense to curve a fingerboard when a bow is used. Martin steel string guitars originally had flat fretboards.
I can build a guitar for you. I build custom electric guitars with hand tools.
Hey Joe, thanks for sharing good info and your opinion. I learnt a few things. As a newbie, may I ask... is it easy to play bluesy bendy stuff on a flat fretboard?
Also what is the curved radius best used for in the first place?
It's very difficult to find a guitar with a flat fingerboard, other than classical guitars. A flat fingerboard will be easier to bend the string on, because you can get the action lower. You can bend just fine on a guitar with a curved fretboard, but the strings will need to be further away from the frets, otherwise some of the strings will stop vibrating during a bend. I don't know why the fretboards are curved on guitars. Most players I know prefer them that way. They say it's more comfortable. If you're just starting out, any quality guitar will be fine. Even though I prefer my fingerboard to be flat, I find myself playing my guitars that have a greater curve on the fretboard, because they are higher quality than my guitars with the flatter fretboards. I would rather perform with my Ibanez guitars(flatter) but I have more problems with them compared to my PRS guitars(rounder). My PRS guitars are just more reliable. The radius of the fretboard is not related to quality.
Ibanez and other builders have some 16'' radius models that are closer to a flat fingerboard. I used to own a flat radiused electric and the neck looked like it was caving in when playing. Of of course it wasn't, but it was the perspective that was bugging me when practising. I am happy with 16''.
@@batardglouton5455 I sold a great $300 Ibanez to one of my students, it had a ~16" radius. I miss that guitar. Ibanez is a fantastic company.
@@JoeHew I don't like 16'' radius or maybe it's more the flat thin necks that causes me pain, but I'm going to go for a 12'' radius with a thick neck, maybe 16''? I think it's easier for me to keep my thumb in the middle with a thick neck and slightly radiused fingerboard.
Make a neck with a flat finger board if you want a flat one
Ha. That can be accomplished.
I'm building an explorer type guitar. It's going to have a flat fret board......
As much as I like strats, I think their radius ranges are simply outdated. Modern music feels more natural to play on a flatter fretboard.
Like minds, at last.
At least a few people think this way.
Just have a local luthier make you an aircraft carrier flat, fret board for you, l'm sure they can do that easy enough.
Small luthiers can't compete with the prices of big companies. I have actually been talking to one, there isn't a guitar company that makes something exactly to my desired specifications.
Open chords are more comfortable with a curve. I think 12" or 14" radius is a good compromise.
Nope. 7.25" all day.
7 1/2 is one thing I understand, it’s not for everyone, mainly chord and surf players. Sorry your finger seems broken. Put some 7 gage strings and bend that thing to the moon. The bend you were demonstrating seemed wild.
A 7.25" or 7.5" fretboard radius would be nearly intolerable for me, I could use one if it was the only option. I don't buy into the conventional wisdom about curved fretboards being easier for chords. Even if it's true that curved fretboards are better for playing chords, you can get the action lower on a flat fretboard without fretting out on bends. I don't think I need to argue that the lowest possible action is ideal for playability. My finger is fine, many index fingers curve toward the middle finger. I tend to break anything lighter than 9 gauge strings. The guitar in the video has 10s on it and I set it up to do a full step bend without fretting out on the 1st string(10" radius). I'd rather gig with 13s on a flat fretboard than with 7s on a fretboard with a 7.25" radius.
@@JoeHewI also hate super light gage strings. I have a few guitars, so this is what I would compare it to with my experience. My baritone had a 12” radius and a hard tail it has much thicker strings 14-68 I don’t do much bending aside from light vibrato. Custom 24 and 594 have a 10” radius both have 10s which I think is the most comfortable. They play totally different. The 594 can do insane bends no problems. Custom 24 I locked down the trem and can do light bends but have the same problem as you bending that far. Do you think your tailpiece and your scale length has anything to do with your bending? I also have a jag it’s a 7 1/4 but it had a hard tail with a 11’s its 24 1/2 scale and I have no problems bending.
@@gorlagOv You might have some fret wear on your custom 24. Do you do your own setup work? If I raised the action on my standard 24 I could bend further. A fixed bridge or a locked trem are easier for me to bend with(typically) because they don't move. I usually prefer a bridge that can adjust for each individual string, but there is less work involved with fixed saddles, or a solid bridge. I've actually been impressed with Fender's fretwork lately, that's a major factor in bending ease.
@@JoeHew yes, I do my own set ups. Also definitely, when I change my strings on my 24 next, I need to clean up and do a little fret maintenance. It’s my main player, it’s an s2, I put core pickups and pots in it. Agree, Fender has been great lately with some of there models. The American Original series, feel and sound like a non-relict custom shops at half the price. They are very good.
I wish there were flat fretboards.
Congratulation; you are the first amercian has discovered the true.
Americans don't know anything about building guitars. What they do is imitate the violin.
That's why NO ONE in the world buys classical guitars from the United States.
A curved violin mast is because the violinist's staff must have an angle so as not to hit the other strings. On guitar, the only thing that happens is that the guitarist spends more energy crossing the strings, because each one of them has a different height. And the more radius, the strings will tend to click, tinker or sift. SO is so that Fender had to modify his guitars with exaggerated radio. That is the best proof that they don't know how to build guitars.
The violins to avoid this, that is why they have the bridge very high, raising the strings a lot, but being nylon they do not require much pressure to attack them correctly.
By having different heights the strings by the curved neck of the guitar, now each finger must exert different pressures and you run the risk of pressure tune-ups, the strings become more cumbersome, because ALWAYS on a curve the string that is stepped on and the next one that is in the air will collide with the finger, since one has a lower height and the other has more.
If a pick is used now on a rope it may be at the limit of the pick, and when you cross to the next, now having a different height, the rope will be halfway through the pick. That is why they have many problems, since they have to spend energy constantly correcting the position of the pick
Americans do not realize their pride and live in their world, they do not realize that NO ONE professional classical guitarist would buy a classical guitar made in the USA.
I'm actually a Canadian, but I live in the U.S. I didn't care about the issue until I developed carpal tunnel syndrome. It takes extra practice to develop new techniques with a curved fretboard compared to a flat one. People argue that curved fretboards are easier to play, I don't understand any of the points they make. It's frustrating, because my highest quality guitars have a ridiculous 10 inch/ 254mm radius. I didn't realize people were messing up the design of classical guitars too.
@@JoeHew carpal tunnel syndorme = it is most likely due to the higher energy expenditure for the curved guitar strings because you play virtuously.
They will tell you that "sultan fo swing" is virtuous and that did not happen to him. For people that is virtuous because it does not come out of their small American anglophile world
You’re talking out of your ass. Americans don’t build radius into classical guitars.
@@FrancNotFrank americans no build classical guitars....they are only trash classical guitar, like the trash of Fender classical guitars
"Americans don't know the first thing about building guitars!" Weird that the most sold guitars in history are all American and the best players in history are also American.
The mind boggles. You're bending the strings on a classical guitar and need to bend on electric guitar until the string breaks? I've been playing guitar for longer than youve been alive bud and never come across a need like this. I don't mean any offence at all but what are you trying to do? You cant get enough music out of the guitars that exist? Again - no offence but this is just pish mate.
It's about basic physics. The flatter the fretboard, the less problems to solve. I don't expect everyone to understand, especially someone that thinks their age gives them authority, experience or eldership.
@@JoeHew You're offended Joe and that wasn't my intention - so my apologies to you. I wasn't meaning to "Age Foot" you here - what I meant was that I can't really understand your point. The best musicians I know can pull beautiful music out of the leg of a chair. They adjust around and get the most out of the limitations of the instrument - in fact the limitations becomes part of the artistic expression. I am genuinely just wondering what music you're trying to get to that you can't achieve because of the fretboard radius? I've had electric guitars with a flat radius - or so large that it may as well be flat. Why not just get one of those - rather than try to bend guitar design and manufacture to your needs through pseudo intellectual critique? You're a great player from the little bit you played there - and clearly a clever guy. Don't waste your talents bending everything towards you - surf on top of everything that's already there. Genuine best wishes, apologies and all the best.