I dont think people not play Numot because he's "underrated", I think people dont play Numot because they like having a group of friends to play EDH with.
I find the shaming around LD to be immature and unsportsmanlike. It’s a legitimate means of controlling some pretty OP cards (I’m looking at you Gaea’s Cradle). Removal in all its glorious forms should be given the respect it deserves.
Andrew Hendrix Land destruction to control powerful lands is one thing. Land destruction to say that your opponent just doesnt even get to play the game is whats shunned. Are you telling me that if your EDH experience was reduced to "draw, pass" (because every time you play a land, your opponent snipes it) that you'd be having fun?
I think it'd be really cool if you guys made a podcast on building mono-color commander. Maybe go through each color, talk about it's strengths and weaknesses, and address cards that can be used to mitigate the weaknesses.
The thing is, if we go wih the "Recast that spell"-route, the caster could choose new targets, which might be another upside apart from basically rewriting the stack.
Probably rename it to "Renege" and leave out the "immediatly" for the templating ;) There might be a way to restrict the targets but i think it would be a more well-designed card without it while still doing basicly the same unless you start to pair it with blue cards. Otherwise you might consider lowering the cost to RR because of the cards narrowness. Sounds like it should be costed like "Fork".
My underrated card is Reconnaissance. Enchantment for W it says "0: Removing target attacking creature you control from combat and untap it" This is amazing for so many reasons, like for example you can swing with everything you have every turn, and when they declare blockers remove the blocked ones. And the best part is you're allowed to remove them from combat after damage has been dealt, giving them vigilance as well. Best card ever and a definite include in any white creature-based deck.
Fellwar stone is incredible! Rock solid mana fix, specially if you check the rulling : Fellwar Stone checks the effects of all mana-producing abilities of lands your opponents control, but it doesn’t check their costs. For example, Vivid Crag has the ability “Tap, Remove a charge counter from Vivid Crag: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.” If an opponent controls Vivid Crag and you control Fellwar Stone, you can tap Fellwar Stone for any color of mana. It doesn’t matter whether Vivid Crag has a charge counter on it, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s untapped.
A lot of these cards I've played for a bit, and I've always said to my play group, don't underestimate "this card." This was a super dope video for teaching purposes. I like to help out fellow players with wicked new ideas with older cards. I'll be using this video in the future when teaching others about Magic. Thanks Josh & Jimmy. You guys are legendary XD
Great Show i am a fan from germany and found you because i am a subscriber of the Tolarian Community College. I play Magic since 2 Years now but never got into EDH. I will build the Professors Kaseto Deck, it seams a lot of fun to play it. Keep doing this great work really love youre show, i learn a lot fore my EDH skills from you guys. Nice wishes from GERMANY! ps: Your Game Knights are the best, really appreciate the hard work thar it takes to make these. (apologizes for my bad English)
My addition to the underrated cards list is Dream Halls. It's an enchantment for 3 and 2 blue, and it says: "Rather than pay the mana cost for a spell, its controller may discard a card that shares a color with that spell." It turns every spell into a force of will where you can cast it for free by pitching another card. It's also discard instead of exile, so you can recur the cards you pitch.
It's a little situational, but I've been really surprising people with Psychic Spiral in my Unesh deck. The spell essentially resets your deck by shuffling your entire graveyard back into your deck, and you can mill someone else for that many cards. The reason I like it so much is because with Unesh, you essentially dump half your deck into the grave as you play your sphinxes, and you get a nice reset button when your deck starts looking pretty slim.
The commanders section cracks me up because I have friends with Toshiro and Varolz decks. Toshiro can roll through so many spells in a turn, and the Varolz deck we have named 'All Eggs, One Basket.' I have a couple of Partner decks as well. Love the interaction.
Debt of Loyalty 1WW - Instant Regenerate target creature. You gain control of it if it regenerates this way. Save or steal (or both) a creature at instant speed, for 3 mana, IN WHITE. This is my favorite unexpected card.
Awesome video guys! Fellwar Stone is one of my favorite cards in commander! My most underrated and under- played card: All Sun's Dawn. 4G: for each color, return up to one target card from your graveyard to your hand. (0-5 colors) -pure value!
I just got into Magic about 2 months ago. Your channel has been a welcome treasure trove of valuable information and insights for a newbie such as myself. Thanks guys and keep it up!
Don't know if it is underrated but I rearly see it outside of my decks: Scour from existence Exile target permanent for 7 colorless mana on instant speed. A stable in every mono deck or decks where I have problems to remove a certain permanent type. It saved me more than one time
Josh's custom card at 38:35 could be worded "Target spell resolves". It would probably need a bunch of reminder text, which can actually be written in plain language (see M15 reminder text for convoke).
33:40 I also recommend - Energy Flux: That is an enchantment for 2 and a U and does "All artifacts have "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this artifact unless you pay {2}."" - By Force: XR, Sorcery, Destroy X target artifacts. 36:10 I also recommend - Quest for Renewal: Enchantment for 1 and a G and does "Whenever a creature you control becomes tapped, you may put a quest counter on Quest for Renewal. As long as there are four or more quest counters on Quest for Renewal, untap all creatures you control during each other player's untap step." 49:10 Yisan without a body? That has potential. Imagine this with Paradox Haze. Another card that I can recommend: Corrupted Conscience {3}{U}{U}, Aura: "You control enchanted creature. Enchanted creature has infect."
Another underrated general I'd add to this list: Shattergang Brothers. It works as a control/stax commander outside of white or blue and whenever the downsides would hit you harder, you can just remove them and maybe take something out with it. Say you play that Null Rod kinda early and shut off an opponent long enough to get your vandalblast, you can then sac off your null rod and have all the artifacts to yourself. You can also sacrifice things at instant speed -- so say you only need Winter Orb to slow them down for a turn, you can blow it up at the end of your turn, or use it in response to your own smokestack trigger... etc. Plus cards like Rancor and self recurring creatures are automatic includes for repeat sac effects. It's not a commander you see too often but it has a lot of good stax potential as well as just good politics potential.
No one seems to know about Waste Not, which is a win-con by itself with any wheel effect in EDH. If you resolve a wheel with this on the board, you should probably win that turn if the deck is built correctly (I run it in my sedris reanimator)
I run waste not in my nekusar wheel of fortune deck but I think megrim, liliana's caress, and sangromancer are better if u play a ton of wheels not to say waste not is bad at all
What I don't like about those cards is the fact that the effect is damage. Waste not cheats you mana, which is great in black, and it creates tokens if you need to sacrifice things. I can see a scenario where you cycle with the cards you listed and win because they deal damage, and obviously that effect is strong in nekusar-esque decks, but since a lot of decks are looking to cheat mana to set up an engine that goes infinite, waste not is the go-to.
I think Kamigawa is just an underrated block overall. It has numerous staples,Sakura Tribe Elder, Kodama's Reach, Sakashima, Azami, Azusa, Kiki-Jiki, The Star Dragons, yet I feel like it has plenty more hidden gems that people don't notice.
People are turned away because the Mets was poison, but the Blu k had great art, a good story, and good synergy between cards. It was a very good set, spoiled by the tournament scene.
Sweet episode. I picked up a Squandered Resources a few months ago and have been contemplating putting in a deck... thinking, "Is it me or is this card underrated?" Boom. It's in your episode. Boom. It's now in my deck. Thanks, guys!
One thing about mindbreak trap that was never mentioned is it also gets around spells that can't be countered. That alone I think makes it worth the 4 mana to hard-cast in most cases
'harvest wurm' is great for graveyard decks to get death triggers, and lands; 'bottle gnomes' is great to recur in graveyard decks, in addition to some great flavour text; 'scavenger folk' is good artefact removal; 'llanowar mentor' is good ramp; and the vow cycle is a great way to deal with a scary creature, because it stops it from attacking you, but helps it attack your opponents.
Don't see it often in my play group, but I think conquerors flail is fantastic in every deck! 2 drop 2 to equip it reads "Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each color among permanents you control. As long as Conquerors Flail is attached to a creature your opponents can't cast spells during your turn."
Around minute forty Josh mentions a super fun card idea! Thinking on possible wordings (why not), I came up with this: “Copy target spell, you may choose new targets for the copy. Then, counter target spell with the same name as the copied spell.”
for underrated commanders with the partners, I run Sidar Kondo of Jamurra with Tanya the blood sower. the deck is primarily focused on making tokens and keeping them small and attacking while making it very difficult to be blocked.
Here's how you reorder the stack (I think): "Counter target spell or ability. Copy it. The copy must have the exact same targets as the original". (Or "you may not choose new targets for the copy"). If you want to get around umcounterable stuff instead you can say "exile it and put it into it's owner's graveyard".
Oh man i was so happy to see Descendant of Soramaro in the video. I began playing during Kamigawa with my dad and he used to have this blue white card draw controlly deck with soramaro and obviously descendant and others like graceful adept (Spell book on a stick). After he passed away ive built a mono blue Soramaro First to Dream deck using many of the cards my dad used to play with and its definitely the most fun commander deck i own.
I'm the only player in my playgroup that uses Temur Sabertooth, and it is very, very strong. I have an Azusa EDH with very heavy creatures, like Avenger of Zendikar and Regal Force, that little Sabertooth is a monster with these two, imagine Regal Force each turn or Avenger of Zendikar creating thousands of plants each turn, its nuts! Then we have Karametra's Acolyte, if you have 7 devotion to green and a lightning greaves, you have infinite green mana. Add to this a primordial sage or a Soul of the Harvest and you draw your entire deck and cast everything with your infinite green mana.
in rakdos, lord of riots, wait for it.... deal 9 damange cast sidisi for 2 black exploit herself find artisan of kozilek cast artisan of kozilek get back sidisi exploit herself find phyrexian reclemation cast phyrexian reclemation activate it's ability return sidisi cast sidisi exploit herself find phyrexian altar you now have pay 2 life tutor on a stick
Firstly, I love underrated card episodes. They are probably the most favourite of mine to watch, since you can find lots of cards that you don't know and a perfect fit for your decks. One of the most underrated cards for me that I like is Codex Shredder. It is a card that can bring anything from your graveyard Eternal Witness style that any deck can use since it is colorless. It can counter your opponents' top deck tutors like Vampiric, Enlightened, etc.. or Sensei's Divining Top's tap ability and of course it can mill your opponent. Or you if you are a graveyard deck which can be invaluable! It is cheap so Sun Titan can bring it back for example which can be powerful. It is a cool utility artifact which has many small things going on for it.
Most under rated cards for me are Millikin and Dowsing Dagger. Millikin offers cheap and fast self mill packaged onto a mana dork. (Being colorless makes it a perfect turn 1/2 play for Daretti decks) Dowsing Dagger is so powerful. It forces interaction and discussion. It opens up deals to be made. It may demand the user be more capable politically, but it rewards that playstyle hugely.
Yeah. We've been using them for decades, even before EDH was a thing. We've always played multi-player so a two-mana rock that usually makes any color is almost always good.
On the subject of the Partners, I am particularly fond of the combo of Akiri Line Slinger & Silas Renn. They are the Commanders of my Myr tribal deck with a equipment sub theme. That brings me to my underutilized Commander card: Bludgeoning Brawl. For a red and two you get an enchantment which turns all of your non creature artifacts into equipment. It makes your static artifacts & Mana rocks do double duty as damage dealers. Believe me, swinging for leathal using Akiri armed with three signets, a Blinkmoth Urn, and a Rocket Launcher is quite amusing and satisfying.
I love Varolz. He's one of the first commander decks I ever built and he combos so well with things that scale based on the number of creature in graveyards like Boneyard Wurm, Lurghoyf and the 1BB enchantment creature from Theros who's name is escaping me. Because their abilities function from any zone they turn into massive permanent pump spells for 2-4 mana
Mindbreak Trap is sometimes played as a sideboard card in legacy as an answer to storm for decks that aren't blue or aren't playing force because you can free cast it. That's why it's a little more expensive
For Patron of the Moon, it pairs well with Retreat to Coralhelm. Landfall - scry 1 or untap target permanent. Then you're just paying 1 to put 2 lands on the field untapped.
My favorite Chandra's ignition was a turn where I was able to play it on a creature that had lifelink, and a large board. When the dust settled, I had over 750 life.
Fault Line from Urza's Saga is also an instant-speed Earthquake for XRR that hits all non-flying creatures and players (which means the damage can be redirected to planeswalkers if you want). I think it's even a little bit better than Magmaquake, although both have their benefits.
My under rated card is Flameshadow Conjuring. This 3 and a red enchantment reads "whenever a non token creature enters the battlefield under your control you may pay a red if you do, put a token onto the battlefield that is a copy of that creature. That token gains haste, exile it at the beginning of the next end step" I play this in my R/G ramp decks so I can get a second big creature when I cast the dorks I am ramping into. Also I could see this being pretty useful in decks with red in them that care about ETB triggers.
Ritual of Subdual has a Blood Moon effect, but in green. It does have a steep cumulative upkeep cost, but generally a slower game makes them elves easier to protect.
My first time watching. Seems like they just find some jank cards with lots of key words and mention that you can buy them through an affiliate store. At least you saved me from the ridiculous singing :)
a neat combo that goes off with abundance is the gitrog monster and a discard outlet. Pretty much allows you to draw and dump every land in your deck. People dont like it but its really cool
Toshiro was my first deck! I swear, always i thinck while im watching this list of underrated cards "wow, why anybody put Toshiro in any of those lists?" and here you are!. PD: there are some recursion instants in instan, Corpse Dance, Fated Return and Grim Return! Thanks for the great work as always
Not a single commander you mentioned was actually underrated. They are rated appropriately. Partners are absolutely NOT underrated. Also, didn't mention Dralnu. Still Underrated. Sidisi is not underrated! I have no idea how you can even say that! She's almost a 5 dollar card. Do you think she's that expensive because she's UNDERRATED? No! She's rated really highly.
I completely agree on Sidisi - she's in 14% of 120575 decks listed on edhrec - J&J are just plain wrong. However, their point about the partners was valid. People are still pretty unsure about using them, largely because they are not valued for the key points J&J frequently mention on these shows. e.g. that you get 2 solid early drops that are not auto-hate generators - which is critical in many commander metas. And as for the listed commanders, you gotta know you are wrong... but just in case: Toshiro -- 227 decks Numot -- 254 decks Varolz -- 374 decks Iname - 82 decks Perhaps you define "underrated" as something other than how commonly the card is used as a commander, but surely you are reasonable enough to admit those are low numbers and that low usage for powerful commanders is a part of what should qualify something as underrated. As for Dralnu, you are probably right, and mainly because most people wont read past her first sentence. But I'm sure there are scores of commanders they could have listed as well. The four they chose were interesting, and covered a lot of different strategies. That's sorta the point of these shows.
Underrated as in, they are not rated appropriately for what they do. I've played with Toshiro and tried to build decks around him and tried to work him into commander decks that care about recasting instants and sorceresses. He just doesn't work all that well. You need a way to start the repeated removal and once you do that it becomes "Why not just us an easier method of removal in mono black commander?". Numot isn't underrated either. Players are adverted to using land destruction. It has nothing to do with him being underrated in this case and everything to do with people's emotional reaction to LD. Its not that people are underrating LD, its that they're overrating it and see it as too much of a degenerate strategy. I've seen Varolz a few times. He's fine, but the issue with Varolz is it burns itself quickly for a Golgari deck. Which isn't something you want. Golgari isn't a voltron color and he doesn't work that great as a sac outlet compared to other golgari commanders. His cost is a bit step for a strategy that is very fragile, even with his regenerate ability. If you're going to play Golgari, why not pick a general who has more resilience long game? Iname, again we have one that is very narrow. As a commander, why not just use Sidisi or Razaketh? Both of them just act as repeatable tutors that can get you anything you need.While Iname is good in Spirit decks, It just doesn't have the number of good targets in mono black. Nirkana Revenant being the most notable one I can think of, which is a $20 card that not everyone is going to have access to. So, My point is that I don't see them as underrated. They seem to be rated appropriately to their tech. Not saying they're bad, just that you have far better options.
Omg notes, Melissa’s notes would be sooooooo cool she just goes off on each of her turn I straight up bought her deck its great( on card kingdom -with the affiliate code of course-) love you guys.
Nah, I like watching their content enough to not skip the beginning. I personally find it in bad taste to jump on their videos and tell people to skip part of the content. ;)
Hey Guys: I am so happy you mentioned Patron of the Moon as an underrated creature. it is the commander of one of my more "funny" commander decks. He gets totally crazy with Amulet of Vigor that will let all your lands enter the battlefield untapped. Trick is to play ALL the manarocks and put him into play around round 5...thank you for a great episode. I am gonna buy that cumulative upkeep enchantment.
For the spell Josh designed, maybe it could be worded as: Counter target spell, then create a copy of that spell with the same targets. This might work since it would happen when this spell resolves, not when it's cast. I would also cost it 1UUR
One cool thing you can do with varolz is run undercosted creatures with downside. Phyrexian Dreadnaught and Soulgorger let you scavenge 13 counters for 1 mana, or 8 counters for 3 mana respectively.
An underrated ability of abundance is that it is a replacement affect. It stops you from decking, and is someone has a draw affect like sphinx or nekusar you get around it.
I have a cool card it’s called defense of the heart it costs 3 and a green and it reads “At the beginning of your upkeep, if an opponent controls three or more creatures, sacrifice Defense of the Heart, search your library for up to two creature cards, and put those cards onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.”
Something I usually think is underrated is Nephalia Academy. It's a land that allows you to put cards on top of your deck instead of discarding them. Maybe it's just because my playgroup seems to really like Wheeling, but I've found the card to be super useful. For example: Opponent plays wheel of fortune. You let the cards you don't want go to your graveyard and the awesome stuff you did want go on top of your library. Then, you draw 7, which includes anything you wanted in your original hand.
Library of Leng, but works for any discard effect, i.e. yours as well. So you can play it in your own wheel deck if you find yourself wanting to keep certain things. No maximum hand size as well.
Abundance is also very good with Sylvan Library. It draws you one Land and two non-Lands each turn, or three non-Lands, whatever you need. And it costs no Life, because Abundance put the Cards in your Hand instead of drawing.
Just making sure since you didn't mention it when talking about abundance - you are aware of the interaction with Sylvan Library? Sylvan requires you to put back cards "drawn this turn" and Abundance puts cards into your hand instead of drawing -> both together put 3 cards of land or non-land into your hand every turn
Urborg + Mutilate is a powerful board wipe combo. Also at bare minimum Acquire lets you see all of the cards in your opponent's library. Sometimes the information is more valuable than the stealing alone.
On the subject of your card idea, I think rather than reordering the stack, it would "copy target spell or ability; counter the original". Copy of spells on the stack might be weird and not desired, but this gets essentially the same effect without reordering.
Nice. Toshi is actually my favorite commander. I run him in a zombie tribal shell with plenty of recursion and every black single target instant kill and instant draw I can find. Almost impossible to beat in 2-3player commander games unless I fuck up. Which I do.
I might be wrong, they might be popular and I just never see them, but: Archetype of Imagination - Straight up game ender, giving all your creatures flying, and your opponents creatures can't have or gain flying. Death Grasp - It's an X cost burn spell in black/white!!! Not enough for you? Gain X life for your troubles. Diabolic Revelation - Tutor for X!!!! It's a fairly big initial cost at 3 black black, but TUTOR FOR X
My play tend to stay away from infinite combos more times than not, so most of our decks are very low level competitively. But one of my favorite cards is Druidic satchel. Artifact for 3 “2, and tap it: reveal the top card of your library, if it’s a creature put a 1/1 saproling into play, if it’s a land put it into play, if it’s neither gain 2 life.” I particularly enjoy the randomness of the effect, tho revealing cards tends to hurt you I think insta dropping land is one of the best mechanics in game.
Kiora, the Crashing Wave is pretty underrated imo. I only got to play her in a Superfriends deck, but she acted a lot like an Oracle of Mul Daya. If she hits the board early and you can protect her, she can draw you a bunch of cards and then fog a single creature when she can't minus!
Mindbreak Trap can counter early, early plays for free, as well. A couple mana rocks into an enchantment, for instance, can allow you to counter that instant before you even play a single land. Or, infinite cycle for damage or mana? Counter the last one in the list, and cascade all the spells on the stack. Mindbreak Trap has so much potential!
I just found a really cool enchantment that i had never heard of before called Soothsaying. Im gonna start running it in a lot of my decks! CMC: U 3UU: Shuffle your library X: Look at the top X cards of your library, then put them back in any order.
a card a friend of mine and I stumbled upon not long ago is "Druid's Repository". We basically play it in every green deck right now, just a great ramp-card!
38:00 Such a spell would surely copy and then counter the spell in question, rather than move the original spell to a different location on the stack - because that would be weird. It would look something like this, I reckon: Name: First! Mana Cost: UR Instant Rules text: Copy target spell. Choose the same modes and targets for the copy. Then counter that spell. Flavor text: For an Izzet inventor, being right is never as important as being first.
Man, abundance has my jam for years now. It's just so powerful with the right support. As to cards I think are underrated: burst mana cards, especially songs of the damned, and rain of filth. Demonic consultation is definitely one that people underestimate: if I'm going to lose anyways, or if I'm certain I'll win if I just had one other card, a 1 mana instant speed tutor is always worth the risk. In Red, there's Rolling earthquake which is great because it hits flyers.
I dont think people not play Numot because he's "underrated", I think people dont play Numot because they like having a group of friends to play EDH with.
Anon Ymous Wait til you see my deck built around Stasis and Limited Resources. LD is for chumps.
LR is banned, most people don't play with it.
I find the shaming around LD to be immature and unsportsmanlike. It’s a legitimate means of controlling some pretty OP cards (I’m looking at you Gaea’s Cradle). Removal in all its glorious forms should be given the respect it deserves.
Andrew Hendrix Land destruction to control powerful lands is one thing. Land destruction to say that your opponent just doesnt even get to play the game is whats shunned. Are you telling me that if your EDH experience was reduced to "draw, pass" (because every time you play a land, your opponent snipes it) that you'd be having fun?
Well they've won at that point. You continuing to play the whole thing out is not their fault.
I think it'd be really cool if you guys made a podcast on building mono-color commander. Maybe go through each color, talk about it's strengths and weaknesses, and address cards that can be used to mitigate the weaknesses.
Yeah, that'd be cool. I think they've done some videos on mono-colored staples a loooooong time ago.
@@JpDubbed The Professor did this from mono to 5 color a long while ago.
Simply because I can't overlook it. It's not Tom Jones's song that killed the aliens. It's Slim Whitman Indian Love Call.
"Sol Ring, Grim Monolith, here comes Ugin..."
Cute little Amonkhet Game Knights reference.
For your card design Josh:
Reroute
1RR
Instant
Exile target spell. That spell's owner may immediately cast that spell without paying its mana cost.
Basically Release to the Wind but for spells on the stack
I mean there's already a card called Reroute
The thing is, if we go wih the "Recast that spell"-route, the caster could choose new targets, which might be another upside apart from basically rewriting the stack.
Probably rename it to "Renege" and leave out the "immediatly" for the templating ;)
There might be a way to restrict the targets but i think it would be a more well-designed card without it while still doing basicly the same unless you start to pair it with blue cards.
Otherwise you might consider lowering the cost to RR because of the cards narrowness. Sounds like it should be costed like "Fork".
downside would be any X costs or alternative or additive costs with different effects..
My underrated card is Reconnaissance. Enchantment for W it says
"0: Removing target attacking creature you control from combat and untap it"
This is amazing for so many reasons, like for example you can swing with everything you have every turn, and when they declare blockers remove the blocked ones. And the best part is you're allowed to remove them from combat after damage has been dealt, giving them vigilance as well. Best card ever and a definite include in any white creature-based deck.
Fellwar stone is incredible! Rock solid mana fix, specially if you check the rulling : Fellwar Stone checks the effects of all mana-producing abilities of lands your opponents control, but it doesn’t check their costs. For example, Vivid Crag has the ability “Tap, Remove a charge counter from Vivid Crag: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.” If an opponent controls Vivid Crag and you control Fellwar Stone, you can tap Fellwar Stone for any color of mana. It doesn’t matter whether Vivid Crag has a charge counter on it, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s untapped.
That’s a cool interaction! Thanks for speaking about it :)
A lot of these cards I've played for a bit, and I've always said to my play group, don't underestimate "this card." This was a super dope video for teaching purposes. I like to help out fellow players with wicked new ideas with older cards. I'll be using this video in the future when teaching others about Magic. Thanks Josh & Jimmy. You guys are legendary XD
7:41
The hero we dont need, but that we deserve.
True hero
You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Great Show i am a fan from germany and found you because i am a subscriber of the Tolarian Community College. I play Magic since 2 Years now but never got into EDH. I will build the Professors Kaseto Deck, it seams a lot of fun to play it. Keep doing this great work really love youre show, i learn a lot fore my EDH skills from you guys.
Nice wishes from GERMANY!
ps: Your Game Knights are the best, really
appreciate the hard work thar it takes to make these.
(apologizes for my bad English)
My addition to the underrated cards list is Dream Halls. It's an enchantment for 3 and 2 blue, and it says:
"Rather than pay the mana cost for a spell, its controller may discard a card that shares a color with that spell."
It turns every spell into a force of will where you can cast it for free by pitching another card. It's also discard instead of exile, so you can recur the cards you pitch.
It DOES however affect the entire table, so things can get very crazy very quickly if you're not careful.
True, but that sounds pretty great to me.
Sounds like a group hug deck's dream.
wheel of fortunes make dream halls fun
I run it in the Mimeoplasm to fill my yard with huge dudes, while cheating huge dudes out. Symmetrical effects at their finest
To me Mirage Mirror is like Veldaken Orrery to Josh, I just want it in all my decks
Deck Deck, On the wall, who is the jankest of them all
Card list:
Underrated Commanders:
Toshiro Umazawa
Numot, the Devastator
Varolz, the Scar-Stripped
Iname, Death Aspect
Underrated Creatures:
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Temur Sabertooth
Descendant of Soramaro
Patron of the Moon
Underrated Lands:
Dust Bowl
Winding Canyons
Slayer’s Stronghold
Underrated Instants:
Rebuild
Magmaquake
Early Harvest
Mindbreak Trap
Arachnogenesis
Underrated Sorceries:
Chain Reaction
Chandra’s Ignition
Mutilate
Pore Ever the Pages
Acquire
Underrated Enchantments:
Hibernation’s End
Squandered Resources
Zendikar Resurgent
Abundance
Underrated Artifacts:
Mirage Mirror
Altar of Dementia
Perilous Vault
Fellwar Stone
It's a little situational, but I've been really surprising people with Psychic Spiral in my Unesh deck. The spell essentially resets your deck by shuffling your entire graveyard back into your deck, and you can mill someone else for that many cards.
The reason I like it so much is because with Unesh, you essentially dump half your deck into the grave as you play your sphinxes, and you get a nice reset button when your deck starts looking pretty slim.
Accidental M25 spoiler: Murder
Great catch!
I caught that too.
Actually they spoiled Jace, the mindscultpor, murder, phyrexian obliterator, and Azusa, Lost but Seeking.
The list of spoilers is out
I'll be coming here when M25 is released to tell you that you were right
The commanders section cracks me up because I have friends with Toshiro and Varolz decks. Toshiro can roll through so many spells in a turn, and the Varolz deck we have named 'All Eggs, One Basket.' I have a couple of Partner decks as well. Love the interaction.
Debt of Loyalty
1WW - Instant
Regenerate target creature. You gain control of it if it regenerates this way.
Save or steal (or both) a creature at instant speed, for 3 mana, IN WHITE.
This is my favorite unexpected card.
Steal is not in white. Color pie.
Awesome video guys! Fellwar Stone is one of my favorite cards in commander!
My most underrated and under- played card:
All Sun's Dawn.
4G: for each color, return up to one target card from your graveyard to your hand. (0-5 colors)
-pure value!
At 9:41 there is what might be a Masters 25 spoiler: murder. It has the M25 symbol and the M13 watermark.
Simon van Houdt most M25 cards have the watermark of the set they were first printed in. Azusa is an example.
I just got into Magic about 2 months ago. Your channel has been a welcome treasure trove of valuable information and insights for a newbie such as myself. Thanks guys and keep it up!
Don't know if it is underrated but I rearly see it outside of my decks:
Scour from existence
Exile target permanent for 7 colorless mana on instant speed.
A stable in every mono deck or decks where I have problems to remove a certain permanent type.
It saved me more than one time
I love that card, but I'm always feeling bad for putting Eldrazi-flavored cards in decks that don't feel like they would be willing to use Eldrazi. X)
Josh's custom card at 38:35 could be worded "Target spell resolves". It would probably need a bunch of reminder text, which can actually be written in plain language (see M15 reminder text for convoke).
Am I the only one who saw the 'Masters 25' logo on that Murder card? As far as I know that wasn't spoiled yet...
33:40 I also recommend
- Energy Flux: That is an enchantment for 2 and a U and does "All artifacts have "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this artifact unless you pay {2}.""
- By Force: XR, Sorcery, Destroy X target artifacts.
36:10 I also recommend
- Quest for Renewal: Enchantment for 1 and a G and does "Whenever a creature you control becomes tapped, you may put a quest counter on Quest for Renewal.
As long as there are four or more quest counters on Quest for Renewal, untap all creatures you control during each other player's untap step."
49:10 Yisan without a body? That has potential. Imagine this with Paradox Haze.
Another card that I can recommend: Corrupted Conscience {3}{U}{U}, Aura: "You control enchanted creature. Enchanted creature has infect."
Main Topic 6:45
Thank you! I always look for this comment.
Yeah me too - the intro is so annoying
Fuck of shithead.
Of is off
Thanks
Another underrated general I'd add to this list: Shattergang Brothers. It works as a control/stax commander outside of white or blue and whenever the downsides would hit you harder, you can just remove them and maybe take something out with it. Say you play that Null Rod kinda early and shut off an opponent long enough to get your vandalblast, you can then sac off your null rod and have all the artifacts to yourself. You can also sacrifice things at instant speed -- so say you only need Winter Orb to slow them down for a turn, you can blow it up at the end of your turn, or use it in response to your own smokestack trigger... etc. Plus cards like Rancor and self recurring creatures are automatic includes for repeat sac effects. It's not a commander you see too often but it has a lot of good stax potential as well as just good politics potential.
No one seems to know about Waste Not, which is a win-con by itself with any wheel effect in EDH. If you resolve a wheel with this on the board, you should probably win that turn if the deck is built correctly (I run it in my sedris reanimator)
I run waste not in my nekusar wheel of fortune deck but I think megrim, liliana's caress, and sangromancer are better if u play a ton of wheels not to say waste not is bad at all
What I don't like about those cards is the fact that the effect is damage. Waste not cheats you mana, which is great in black, and it creates tokens if you need to sacrifice things. I can see a scenario where you cycle with the cards you listed and win because they deal damage, and obviously that effect is strong in nekusar-esque decks, but since a lot of decks are looking to cheat mana to set up an engine that goes infinite, waste not is the go-to.
Everyone knows about waste not :D
aggressivli I think in higher power playgroups people do
I think Kamigawa is just an underrated block overall. It has numerous staples,Sakura Tribe Elder, Kodama's Reach, Sakashima, Azami, Azusa, Kiki-Jiki, The Star Dragons, yet I feel like it has plenty more hidden gems that people don't notice.
People are turned away because the Mets was poison, but the Blu k had great art, a good story, and good synergy between cards.
It was a very good set, spoiled by the tournament scene.
Hibernations End works very fine With Braid of Fire :)
So you get the mana for free!
Sweet episode. I picked up a Squandered Resources a few months ago and have been contemplating putting in a deck... thinking, "Is it me or is this card underrated?" Boom. It's in your episode. Boom. It's now in my deck. Thanks, guys!
One thing about mindbreak trap that was never mentioned is it also gets around spells that can't be countered. That alone I think makes it worth the 4 mana to hard-cast in most cases
'harvest wurm' is great for graveyard decks to get death triggers, and lands; 'bottle gnomes' is great to recur in graveyard decks, in addition to some great flavour text; 'scavenger folk' is good artefact removal; 'llanowar mentor' is good ramp; and the vow cycle is a great way to deal with a scary creature, because it stops it from attacking you, but helps it attack your opponents.
I used to have a Varolz commander deck. It was great, especially with deaths shadow or phyrexian juggernaut.
What about nyxathid?
Don't see it often in my play group, but I think conquerors flail is fantastic in every deck! 2 drop 2 to equip it reads "Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each color among permanents you control.
As long as Conquerors Flail is attached to a creature your opponents can't cast spells during your turn."
Look at murder's set symbol ;)
Around minute forty Josh mentions a super fun card idea! Thinking on possible wordings (why not), I came up with this: “Copy target spell, you may choose new targets for the copy. Then, counter target spell with the same name as the copied spell.”
Been waiting for this all week! Always nice to see you guys.
for underrated commanders with the partners, I run Sidar Kondo of Jamurra with Tanya the blood sower. the deck is primarily focused on making tokens and keeping them small and attacking while making it very difficult to be blocked.
Patron of the Moon is a decent (okay, a hilarious) commander, too.
I've literally just made a PotM EDH deck.
Here's how you reorder the stack (I think): "Counter target spell or ability. Copy it. The copy must have the exact same targets as the original". (Or "you may not choose new targets for the copy"). If you want to get around umcounterable stuff instead you can say "exile it and put it into it's owner's graveyard".
Video begins 6:43
tyvm
You are an absolute LEGEND
Good man
I'm always looking for a comment like this. Thanks.
Thank you. 7 minutes of bs gets old
Oh man i was so happy to see Descendant of Soramaro in the video. I began playing during Kamigawa with my dad and he used to have this blue white card draw controlly deck with soramaro and obviously descendant and others like graceful adept (Spell book on a stick). After he passed away ive built a mono blue Soramaro First to Dream deck using many of the cards my dad used to play with and its definitely the most fun commander deck i own.
I'm the only player in my playgroup that uses Temur Sabertooth, and it is very, very strong. I have an Azusa EDH with very heavy creatures, like Avenger of Zendikar and Regal Force, that little Sabertooth is a monster with these two, imagine Regal Force each turn or Avenger of Zendikar creating thousands of plants each turn, its nuts! Then we have Karametra's Acolyte, if you have 7 devotion to green and a lightning greaves, you have infinite green mana. Add to this a primordial sage or a Soul of the Harvest and you draw your entire deck and cast everything with your infinite green mana.
Lapse of Certainty is one of my favorite cards people never see coming! My playgroup never remembers it and always ignores my open white mana.
in rakdos, lord of riots, wait for it....
deal 9 damange
cast sidisi for 2 black
exploit herself
find artisan of kozilek
cast artisan of kozilek
get back sidisi
exploit herself
find phyrexian reclemation
cast phyrexian reclemation
activate it's ability
return sidisi
cast sidisi
exploit herself
find phyrexian altar
you now have pay 2 life tutor on a stick
total cost is 10 mana which can be easily gotten in commander with some rocks and some crypt ghasts
Firstly, I love underrated card episodes. They are probably the most favourite of mine to watch, since you can find lots of cards that you don't know and a perfect fit for your decks.
One of the most underrated cards for me that I like is Codex Shredder. It is a card that can bring anything from your graveyard Eternal Witness style that any deck can use since it is colorless. It can counter your opponents' top deck tutors like Vampiric, Enlightened, etc.. or Sensei's Divining Top's tap ability and of course it can mill your opponent. Or you if you are a graveyard deck which can be invaluable! It is cheap so Sun Titan can bring it back for example which can be powerful. It is a cool utility artifact which has many small things going on for it.
great show guys. keep on , you are doing a great job. greetings from germany :)
Most under rated cards for me are Millikin and Dowsing Dagger.
Millikin offers cheap and fast self mill packaged onto a mana dork. (Being colorless makes it a perfect turn 1/2 play for Daretti decks)
Dowsing Dagger is so powerful. It forces interaction and discussion. It opens up deals to be made. It may demand the user be more capable politically, but it rewards that playstyle hugely.
The hot sauce in the background 😂
In my experience "time of need" works as an ok tutor, and haven't seen too many people play it.
I see Fellwar Stones all the time.
Every deck my son and I run has them, as does the rest of our playgroup.
Yeah. We've been using them for decades, even before EDH was a thing. We've always played multi-player so a two-mana rock that usually makes any color is almost always good.
On the subject of the Partners, I am particularly fond of the combo of Akiri Line Slinger & Silas Renn. They are the Commanders of my Myr tribal deck with a equipment sub theme. That brings me to my underutilized Commander card: Bludgeoning Brawl. For a red and two you get an enchantment which turns all of your non creature artifacts into equipment. It makes your static artifacts & Mana rocks do double duty as damage dealers. Believe me, swinging for leathal using Akiri armed with three signets, a Blinkmoth Urn, and a Rocket Launcher is quite amusing and satisfying.
7 minutes to actually get to the video, my god.
I love Varolz. He's one of the first commander decks I ever built and he combos so well with things that scale based on the number of creature in graveyards like Boneyard Wurm, Lurghoyf and the 1BB enchantment creature from Theros who's name is escaping me. Because their abilities function from any zone they turn into massive permanent pump spells for 2-4 mana
9:55 Masters 25 Spoiler!!!!!??????
Mindbreak Trap is sometimes played as a sideboard card in legacy as an answer to storm for decks that aren't blue or aren't playing force because you can free cast it. That's why it's a little more expensive
Wait, murder is in masters 25? Wha!
For Patron of the Moon, it pairs well with Retreat to Coralhelm. Landfall - scry 1 or untap target permanent. Then you're just paying 1 to put 2 lands on the field untapped.
Do you see the salt cans next to the seracha
Now, I would like to say one little combo I love... Omnath, Locus of Mana + Altar of Dementia = Shennanigans when you can't swing
Underrated card? Engulfing Slagwurm. Best. Creature. EVER!
yeah, that's a fun one. You just need to get a way to give it vigilance for all the wurm fun.
Or Lure. That is my favorite way to win.
My favorite Chandra's ignition was a turn where I was able to play it on a creature that had lifelink, and a large board. When the dust settled, I had over 750 life.
Fault Line from Urza's Saga is also an instant-speed Earthquake for XRR that hits all non-flying creatures and players (which means the damage can be redirected to planeswalkers if you want). I think it's even a little bit better than Magmaquake, although both have their benefits.
Squall Line is an instant speed Hurricane, too.
A spell that copy an other on the top exist already. Fork is an example. To move it, it would be a counter + copy
My under rated card is Flameshadow Conjuring. This 3 and a red enchantment reads "whenever a non token creature enters the battlefield under your control you may pay a red if you do, put a token onto the battlefield that is a copy of that creature. That token gains haste, exile it at the beginning of the next end step"
I play this in my R/G ramp decks so I can get a second big creature when I cast the dorks I am ramping into. Also I could see this being pretty useful in decks with red in them that care about ETB triggers.
But...3 out of 4 example cards for the Iname deck cant't be played in a Iname deck, right? :D
Larsooz correct
They can if he's a creature in the deck, instead of a commander. He can go well in an orzhov token deck, iirc.
Ritual of Subdual has a Blood Moon effect, but in green. It does have a steep cumulative upkeep cost, but generally a slower game makes them elves easier to protect.
Main topic starts at 6:44
felix billington thank you for that. Their intros have been ridiculously long for a while now
My first time watching. Seems like they just find some jank cards with lots of key words and mention that you can buy them through an affiliate store. At least you saved me from the ridiculous singing :)
Fuck off shit head.
@@paulr9562 The say that so their sponsere's give them money for supporting them.
a neat combo that goes off with abundance is the gitrog monster and a discard outlet. Pretty much allows you to draw and dump every land in your deck. People dont like it but its really cool
Oof, Murder spoiler...
omg lol, sell all your murders now before the price tanks!
Toshiro was my first deck! I swear, always i thinck while im watching this list of underrated cards "wow, why anybody put Toshiro in any of those lists?" and here you are!.
PD: there are some recursion instants in instan, Corpse Dance, Fated Return and Grim Return!
Thanks for the great work as always
Sylvan Library + Abundance =
Another underrated one is Crush of Tentacles. It bounces all creatures back and gives you an 8/8 token if you pay the surge cost, which is only 3UU!
Why am I being suggested Minecraft and Roblox video, dafuq
Guisseppi Fresh you been watching roblox meme videos?
Mirrage Mirror is the best card of 2017. Put it in every commander deck you have. You won't regret it
Not a single commander you mentioned was actually underrated. They are rated appropriately. Partners are absolutely NOT underrated. Also, didn't mention Dralnu. Still Underrated.
Sidisi is not underrated! I have no idea how you can even say that! She's almost a 5 dollar card. Do you think she's that expensive because she's UNDERRATED? No! She's rated really highly.
I completely agree on Sidisi - she's in 14% of 120575 decks listed on edhrec - J&J are just plain wrong.
However, their point about the partners was valid. People are still pretty unsure about using them, largely because they are not valued for the key points J&J frequently mention on these shows. e.g. that you get 2 solid early drops that are not auto-hate generators - which is critical in many commander metas.
And as for the listed commanders, you gotta know you are wrong... but just in case:
Toshiro -- 227 decks
Numot -- 254 decks
Varolz -- 374 decks
Iname - 82 decks
Perhaps you define "underrated" as something other than how commonly the card is used as a commander, but surely you are reasonable enough to admit those are low numbers and that low usage for powerful commanders is a part of what should qualify something as underrated.
As for Dralnu, you are probably right, and mainly because most people wont read past her first sentence. But I'm sure there are scores of commanders they could have listed as well. The four they chose were interesting, and covered a lot of different strategies. That's sorta the point of these shows.
Underrated as in, they are not rated appropriately for what they do. I've played with Toshiro and tried to build decks around him and tried to work him into commander decks that care about recasting instants and sorceresses. He just doesn't work all that well. You need a way to start the repeated removal and once you do that it becomes "Why not just us an easier method of removal in mono black commander?".
Numot isn't underrated either. Players are adverted to using land destruction. It has nothing to do with him being underrated in this case and everything to do with people's emotional reaction to LD. Its not that people are underrating LD, its that they're overrating it and see it as too much of a degenerate strategy.
I've seen Varolz a few times. He's fine, but the issue with Varolz is it burns itself quickly for a Golgari deck. Which isn't something you want. Golgari isn't a voltron color and he doesn't work that great as a sac outlet compared to other golgari commanders. His cost is a bit step for a strategy that is very fragile, even with his regenerate ability. If you're going to play Golgari, why not pick a general who has more resilience long game?
Iname, again we have one that is very narrow. As a commander, why not just use Sidisi or Razaketh? Both of them just act as repeatable tutors that can get you anything you need.While Iname is good in Spirit decks, It just doesn't have the number of good targets in mono black. Nirkana Revenant being the most notable one I can think of, which is a $20 card that not everyone is going to have access to.
So, My point is that I don't see them as underrated. They seem to be rated appropriately to their tech. Not saying they're bad, just that you have far better options.
in compettive the best/default partner is thrasios/tymna
agreed
are you the cobblepot on the cedh reddit?
Happy to see Abundance! Been playing it for the last year or so and have no idea why more people aren’t drooling over it
Before watching:
5) Command Tower
4) Ancient Tomb
3) Mana Crypt
2) Sol Ring
1) Barrack Obama (Jimmy and Josh's Favorite Card)
next time, shitpost less and watch more :)
Omg notes, Melissa’s notes would be sooooooo cool she just goes off on each of her turn I straight up bought her deck its great( on card kingdom -with the affiliate code of course-) love you guys.
Starts at 0:01 :)
You're thinking of 6:41
just wrong
Nah, I like watching their content enough to not skip the beginning. I personally find it in bad taste to jump on their videos and tell people to skip part of the content. ;)
Thanks for sharing your holier-than-thou sentiments
You're Welcome. :)
Thank for being an ass. :)
Hey Guys: I am so happy you mentioned Patron of the Moon as an underrated creature. it is the commander of one of my more "funny" commander decks. He gets totally crazy with Amulet of Vigor that will let all your lands enter the battlefield untapped. Trick is to play ALL the manarocks and put him into play around round 5...thank you for a great episode. I am gonna buy that cumulative upkeep enchantment.
Love you guys, love what you're doing, just please, for the love of Heliod, STOP SINGING.
Eric Pelletier Heliod killed Elspeth, who wants his love? His love is a spear through the chest.
I would also appreciate an end to the singing. But I do accept that I am a grumpy bugger.
Don't listen to this heresy. The singing is awesome. Don't change a thing.
For the spell Josh designed, maybe it could be worded as:
Counter target spell, then create a copy of that spell with the same targets.
This might work since it would happen when this spell resolves, not when it's cast. I would also cost it 1UUR
One cool thing you can do with varolz is run undercosted creatures with downside. Phyrexian Dreadnaught and Soulgorger let you scavenge 13 counters for 1 mana, or 8 counters for 3 mana respectively.
An underrated ability of abundance is that it is a replacement affect. It stops you from decking, and is someone has a draw affect like sphinx or nekusar you get around it.
I have a cool card it’s called defense of the heart it costs 3 and a green and it reads “At the beginning of your upkeep, if an opponent controls three or more creatures, sacrifice Defense of the Heart, search your library for up to two creature cards, and put those cards onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.”
Something I usually think is underrated is Nephalia Academy. It's a land that allows you to put cards on top of your deck instead of discarding them. Maybe it's just because my playgroup seems to really like Wheeling, but I've found the card to be super useful.
For example: Opponent plays wheel of fortune. You let the cards you don't want go to your graveyard and the awesome stuff you did want go on top of your library. Then, you draw 7, which includes anything you wanted in your original hand.
Library of Leng, but works for any discard effect, i.e. yours as well. So you can play it in your own wheel deck if you find yourself wanting to keep certain things.
No maximum hand size as well.
Abundance is also very good with Sylvan Library.
It draws you one Land and two non-Lands each turn, or three non-Lands, whatever you need.
And it costs no Life, because Abundance put the Cards in your Hand instead of drawing.
Just making sure since you didn't mention it when talking about abundance - you are aware of the interaction with Sylvan Library? Sylvan requires you to put back cards "drawn this turn" and Abundance puts cards into your hand instead of drawing -> both together put 3 cards of land or non-land into your hand every turn
Urborg + Mutilate is a powerful board wipe combo. Also at bare minimum Acquire lets you see all of the cards in your opponent's library. Sometimes the information is more valuable than the stealing alone.
On the subject of your card idea, I think rather than reordering the stack, it would "copy target spell or ability; counter the original". Copy of spells on the stack might be weird and not desired, but this gets essentially the same effect without reordering.
Nice. Toshi is actually my favorite commander. I run him in a zombie tribal shell with plenty of recursion and every black single target instant kill and instant draw I can find. Almost impossible to beat in 2-3player commander games unless I fuck up. Which I do.
That last part of your comment really cracked me up. ;)
I might be wrong, they might be popular and I just never see them, but:
Archetype of Imagination - Straight up game ender, giving all your creatures flying, and your opponents creatures can't have or gain flying.
Death Grasp - It's an X cost burn spell in black/white!!! Not enough for you? Gain X life for your troubles.
Diabolic Revelation - Tutor for X!!!! It's a fairly big initial cost at 3 black black, but TUTOR FOR X
My play tend to stay away from infinite combos more times than not, so most of our decks are very low level competitively. But one of my favorite cards is Druidic satchel.
Artifact for 3
“2, and tap it: reveal the top card of your library, if it’s a creature put a 1/1 saproling into play, if it’s a land put it into play, if it’s neither gain 2 life.”
I particularly enjoy the randomness of the effect, tho revealing cards tends to hurt you I think insta dropping land is one of the best mechanics in game.
Kiora, the Crashing Wave is pretty underrated imo. I only got to play her in a Superfriends deck, but she acted a lot like an Oracle of Mul Daya. If she hits the board early and you can protect her, she can draw you a bunch of cards and then fog a single creature when she can't minus!
Mindbreak Trap can counter early, early plays for free, as well. A couple mana rocks into an enchantment, for instance, can allow you to counter that instant before you even play a single land. Or, infinite cycle for damage or mana? Counter the last one in the list, and cascade all the spells on the stack. Mindbreak Trap has so much potential!
I just found a really cool enchantment that i had never heard of before called Soothsaying. Im gonna start running it in a lot of my decks!
CMC: U
3UU: Shuffle your library
X: Look at the top X cards of your library, then put them back in any order.
That's people did to top, before using a top was cool.
a card a friend of mine and I stumbled upon not long ago is "Druid's Repository". We basically play it in every green deck right now, just a great ramp-card!
38:00 Such a spell would surely copy and then counter the spell in question, rather than move the original spell to a different location on the stack - because that would be weird. It would look something like this, I reckon:
Name: First!
Mana Cost: UR
Instant
Rules text: Copy target spell. Choose the same modes and targets for the copy. Then counter that spell.
Flavor text: For an Izzet inventor, being right is never as important as being first.
Man, abundance has my jam for years now. It's just so powerful with the right support.
As to cards I think are underrated: burst mana cards, especially songs of the damned, and rain of filth. Demonic consultation is definitely one that people underestimate: if I'm going to lose anyways, or if I'm certain I'll win if I just had one other card, a 1 mana instant speed tutor is always worth the risk.
In Red, there's Rolling earthquake which is great because it hits flyers.