While obviously this car was never something Chrysler would've brought to market, I do sorta like it. It's incredibly distinctive and is probably the best looking of these retro-inspired concept cars that never made it to market.
Yeah it’s so distinctive and unique, I don’t exactly love the front end but I also don’t hate it and wouldn’t mind seeing it on the roads. The throwback to the older Phaetons is really cool to see
It definitely is the best 40's retro inspired car. Seems like all the retro cars based on anything old than the 60's or 70's just never look good. This thing looks like it was pulled straight out of a comic book in the best way possible.
The best Chrysler Concept Was That 2 Door Convertible Based on The Mercedes SL!!! It Looked Production Ready But Mercedes Pulled The Plug Because It Actually Rivaled Their SL
1:17 What is a Phaeton? It simply means a "chariot", named after Greek god Helios' son Phaeton, who took his father Sun chariot on a joyride until Zeus ended the whole thing.
Chrysler always made wonderful concept cars that really have a unique sense of early 20th century styling. Its a shame they didn't approach their sale cars with the same gusto and heart and just kind of half attempted to make them luxury cars.
This car actually was in Gran Turismo 2 for the PS1, so kids ask your parents for permission to dig through their things. Not sure about any other games though.
So interesting that a VW Phaeton ironically sat in the background at :42. LOL It’s unfortunate that Chrysler didn’t create the Phaeton as a coupé like the Benz CLS … such a sharp concept it was.
@@poplaurentiu4148 the rolls Royce at the time. Chrysler’s did have the fast engines in it. I’m talking about the concept. Chrysler never really competed with rolls Royce, accept before 1970s Chrysler when they were more comparable to Cadillac. Rolls Royce wasn’t really into making the most luxurious family car. They were more focused on making the fastest car. So while Chrysler was the ultimate luxury car brand they were also really reliable they have all the bells and whistles, before other car companies had any at all. For example,power windows, ac, powered seats automatic windows. See that’s what I’m talking about but with the concept for the 1990s I can say the they were in fact pretty decked out compared to most cars at the time. Mainly because of the oil crisis. My fathers 1970s car didn’t have electric windows, electric door locks, electric seats, or even seats that moved at all it was a dodge demon from 1971. The Chrysler’s from 1950s had all that and more.
@@jamesmylife6578 The clip say that Chrysler intended to build a model to compete in the ultimate luxury against Rolls because until this concept show in the clip above Chrysler was basically mainstream.. the only brand manufacturer to get closer to Rolls-Royce class of ultimate luxury crafting back in the 1990 was Bugatti with the EB -112 concept.. they did 2 custom EB-118 models and the revised EB-218 models only 3.. So after they build only 5 of these rare cars in total they stopped because in 1995 Bugatti went bankrupt.. Latter after they were brought by VW and start-again Bugatti did try out once-again to enter in the ultimate luxury sector with the Bugatti 16C Galibier concept in the 2008-2009 but that one even though it was well recieve'd after it was presented at 2009 Frankfurth Auto Show, Bugatti intended to build a limited series but it got cancelled again, before reaching production line during the diesel-gate emissions scandal.. EDIT: you say Chrysler was ultimate luxury in late 1970-1990 ? then please tell me this real quick : why so many world-wide dictators, diplomats were running mostly in 1960' Mercedes-Benz S600 Pullman with hydro-pneumatic suspension, vacuum-pneumatic windows, tv+telephones (Sadam Hussein included)..?
This car is beautiful however I can see where it doesn’t look so appealing however it has more than a lot of potential. Chrysler should re design the front a lil bit n get this beauty on the road
I love this car and it's a real shame they never released it to the public. Ever since I first seen in in 2000 playing GT2 I was in love just like that game made me love the PT Spyder as well.
@@MyerShift7 I think the mid to late 2000s was their low point, the 2009 Dodge Ram is when they started to improve, and with their 2011 lineup, they actually weren’t bad imo, and the Pacifica from the early 2000s was pretty nice too.
COMPLETELY MISSED WAS THE 1941 CHRYSLER THUNDERBOLT .IT WAS A 2 SEAT ARROW DYNAMIC DESIGN BASED ON THE IMPERIAL CHASSIS. THE INFLUENCE OF THIS WAS CREATED IN 2004 AS THE MERCEDES MADE CHRYSLER CROSSFIRE. A 2 SEAT SPORTS CAR. IN 1941 6 WERE MADE .AND ONE WAS TILL ON THE AUTO SHOW CIRCUIT IN 1990. A SILVER VERSION SHOWN AT THE CHICAGO AUTO SHOW.
I always wonder "what if?" when it comes to concept cars in general. How they could've reshaped the car industry today had they been released to some degree like it was as a concept. But I'm sure a great deal of them would've resulted in entire brand names going belly-up at the expense of a low production number car that will rise in value on the used market many years later.
@@jbmazhar2000 I am talking Cadillac, Packard, Buick, and Lincoln competition back in the day not the 90s and certainly today. But hopefully they will get a lineup again.
@@PontiacFan68 I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here but i really wish FCA would up their reliability and build quality along with the value proposition on their vehicles. For eg. i absolutely love the look of the Jeep Grand Cherokee but its almost impossible to find one with an LSD used and they're "luxury" brand expensive new without all the bells and whistles. The average Grand Cherokee you see has a very basic on demand sort of a system or pseudo-manual "4wd" which uses a clutch based system similar to a honda pilot. The pilot, However, gets the same torque vectoring rear differential available in Acuras as standard equipment. I am also really tempted to buy a Dodge Ram which again is a fantastic looking vehicle and, having driven one as a work vehicle, it also rides very well. But horror stories from the maintenance department on the build quality of these vehicles plus the lack of a middle ground engine option between a gutless pentastar V6 and a thirsty, inefficient Hemi V8 is a strong deterrent for me. I just feel like FCA needs to do some simple common sense things and they just about have a formula for fantastic vehicles. Sorry.
I could only find two faults (my own personal preference): Didn't look like the seats were adjustable and if it were a touring car, where does the luggage go if the top is open? Other than that, looks awesome.
Interesting that it looks like Ford borrowed a few design elements, such as the dropping line from front to rear, and the fender vent with the notch line as seen on the Ford Thunderbird.
I actually had never heard of the Phaeton before, nor had I heard of the Atlantic which is a takeoff of the Bugatti Atlantic. Love the look of both of them , and would I love to be able to buy either one of them today,,,WOW!
The Mercedes-Benz Ocean Drive Concept from 2007 was clearly an attempted revival of this Phaeton concept - it was the last concept car from Mercedes-Benz built under DaimlerChrysler - with the retro design influence Chrysler brought to Mercedes-Benz during that time (such as the PT Cruiser style wheel arches on the Mercedes W221)
Man, the Phaeton in the 90's-early 2000's would've made you look like a god damn king driving around in it. There would've been nothing like it on the roads. It's a damn shame they didn't put it into production. Even if it was a limited run.
I love it, but I can see why something like this never made it to production. Then again during this era of Daimler Chrysler put out some cars that I normally would think might never make it past concept, like the Prowler, Magnum and even the 08 Challenger. They took a few chances.
So the original Phaeton was Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, basically? Lol I had to check that sentence like five times to make sure autocorrect didn't try to implement me 😁
From the side the car looked outstanding. It made me think of an old "looking to the Future "promotion film. The Grill made me think of one of the Hyundai's. The backend, was let me say, interesting and the Dual Cowl, not so hot on that. Makes it look uncomfortable.
I actually used it in GT2, wasn't the best handling car, but I mean...it was fun when you brought your memory card to a friend and chose a luxury barge to beat their fast lotus', Ruf's and general JDM stuff. As for reality, it sadly would've never worked due to several points: 1. though stylish and clean, the styling itself would not work in low class'. 2. The price of 60k dollars US is debatably very optimistic and highly improbable, because if they wanted to maintain a quality model that competed with the likes of lexus, mercedes and heck, even Lincoln and cadillac of the day, the fit and finish would've needed to be on par and 3. exactly that fit and finish in those days was Chrysler's weaker point. Which would damage the car's reputation and sales.
Looks like it certainly had presence with it's side profile and it was cool to see it in Gran Turismo 2, but overall it did look kind of ugly in some angles and it handled horribly in said game. But man....that picture at 0:41. Chrysler Phaeton, VW Phaeton, AND Spkyer C8 all in one photo (and a Rolls Royce I guess). One of the luckiest car photos I've ever seen.
What a bad ass looking machine. Compared to other styling of the year that would have certainly been a hit with guys like me. Not to mention the other 2 concept cars you showed...I just dont get why we consumers nearly always get these lame styled machines out of Detroit. My hat is of to Chrysler for things like the prowler, and it cruiser. But some of us want more then a box on wheels which is the typical offering, especially in the 4 doors
Someone should electrify it and drive it around. With that body length you could get a serious amount of batteries in the body if they did a skateboard style battery section leaving the rest of the car to be itself and cruise quietly but majestically
You entirely fail to mention that just 8 months later Diamler purchased Chrysler and that this particlular car absloutely has major design cues carried in to the Maybach in years going forward.
While obviously this car was never something Chrysler would've brought to market, I do sorta like it. It's incredibly distinctive and is probably the best looking of these retro-inspired concept cars that never made it to market.
Yeah it’s so distinctive and unique, I don’t exactly love the front end but I also don’t hate it and wouldn’t mind seeing it on the roads. The throwback to the older Phaetons is really cool to see
@@MarspeedCars I mean, they made the Chrysler airflow which was unique at the time. But it also didn’t sell that good for the same reason.
It definitely is the best 40's retro inspired car. Seems like all the retro cars based on anything old than the 60's or 70's just never look good. This thing looks like it was pulled straight out of a comic book in the best way possible.
The best Chrysler Concept Was That 2 Door Convertible Based on The Mercedes SL!!! It Looked Production Ready But Mercedes Pulled The Plug Because It Actually Rivaled Their SL
1:17 What is a Phaeton? It simply means a "chariot", named after Greek god Helios' son Phaeton, who took his father Sun chariot on a joyride until Zeus ended the whole thing.
Chrysler always made wonderful concept cars that really have a unique sense of early 20th century styling. Its a shame they didn't approach their sale cars with the same gusto and heart and just kind of half attempted to make them luxury cars.
Lee Iacocca both saved and doomed Chrysler.
The best thing is that in the second picture shown a VW Phaeton is in the Background. A 12 Cylinder Luxury Car for the 21st Century.
Looks like the facelift version of Cpt. Nemo's car in the movie "the league of extraordinary gentlemen" haha
This looks like something out of an pimp my ride game lol
THEY NEVER DID SUCH CLASS!!!!
This car actually was in Gran Turismo 2 for the PS1, so kids ask your parents for permission to dig through their things. Not sure about any other games though.
Given the horrible reputation of 2.7L, It was probably best the Phaeton never made it to production.
I wouldn't care. I would ls swap it or something
@@ghostlegit or a Hellcrate
Yea...imagine....Two oil clogged engines....
I wouldn't give a fuck. This car is badass. I'll personally weld two running 2.7l to make it another 20K before my next engine weld.
I saw it at the 1997 Minneapolis auto Show, feel in love and wanted to buy one. Never heard of it ever again until today.
that is an epic looking car
Pity they didn't make it. Can you just imagine what it would sell for today?
Three hundred dollars ?
@@udontknoathing7243 Your on that "shyt" aren't chya'?
8:42 Stellantis should hire you as a spokesman/rep for the Chrysler Brand. You and Mark Worman do the Pentastar/Mopar Brand great justice !!
So interesting that a VW Phaeton ironically sat in the background at :42. LOL It’s unfortunate that Chrysler didn’t create the Phaeton as a coupé like the Benz CLS … such a sharp concept it was.
I had one on Gran Turismo 2 .🙂
It would have been cool to see it in production
Hmmm 2X2.7 for double the sludgeing. I think the V10 would have been a better choice. Too bad they didn't make the car, looks cool.
So why didn’t it make production?
Thy already had the 10 cyl Viper engine, so why spend money on a V12 ? For a company just out of bankruptcy, they seem to have learnt little.
Weird front styling, but I love it.
Wow, such a BEAUTIFUL CAR, what a shame!!!
Dodge chysler had many beautiful concepts that never made production. Such a pitty.
Yeah not to be that guy but, this puts rolls Royce at shame.
@@jamesmylife6578 You say it but really based on what will put Chrysler a Rolls-Royce at shame ? or is just a conspiration theory ? ;0)
@@poplaurentiu4148 the rolls Royce at the time. Chrysler’s did have the fast engines in it. I’m talking about the concept. Chrysler never really competed with rolls Royce, accept before 1970s Chrysler when they were more comparable to Cadillac. Rolls Royce wasn’t really into making the most luxurious family car. They were more focused on making the fastest car. So while Chrysler was the ultimate luxury car brand they were also really reliable they have all the bells and whistles, before other car companies had any at all. For example,power windows, ac, powered seats automatic windows. See that’s what I’m talking about but with the concept for the 1990s I can say the they were in fact pretty decked out compared to most cars at the time. Mainly because of the oil crisis. My fathers 1970s car didn’t have electric windows, electric door locks, electric seats, or even seats that moved at all it was a dodge demon from 1971. The Chrysler’s from 1950s had all that and more.
@@jamesmylife6578 The clip say that Chrysler intended to build a model to compete in the ultimate luxury against Rolls because until this concept show in the clip above Chrysler was basically mainstream.. the only brand manufacturer to get closer to Rolls-Royce class of ultimate luxury crafting back in the 1990 was Bugatti with the EB -112 concept.. they did 2 custom EB-118 models and the revised EB-218 models only 3.. So after they build only 5 of these rare cars in total they stopped because in 1995 Bugatti went bankrupt.. Latter after they were brought by VW and start-again Bugatti did try out once-again to enter in the ultimate luxury sector with the Bugatti 16C Galibier concept in the 2008-2009 but that one even though it was well recieve'd after it was presented at 2009 Frankfurth Auto Show, Bugatti intended to build a limited series but it got cancelled again, before reaching production line during the diesel-gate emissions scandal.. EDIT:
you say Chrysler was ultimate luxury in late 1970-1990 ? then please tell me this real quick : why so many world-wide dictators, diplomats were running mostly in 1960' Mercedes-Benz S600 Pullman with hydro-pneumatic suspension, vacuum-pneumatic windows, tv+telephones (Sadam Hussein included)..?
I can't explain why but the Atlantic spoke to me. I did and still do imagine driving one.
Two 2.7L V6s. This would have been a very expensive cool looking roller.
Looks like the gauges made it into the 300M.
Imagine a world where this was sold, did well and inspired a look for cars
Interior looks like a magnum. Love it when concepts make it to factory cars
1:40 that's nice
Hey brother, you are the man! I'm a lifelong Mopar guy and I've never even heard of this car. You totally rock!
This car is beautiful however I can see where it doesn’t look so appealing however it has more than a lot of potential. Chrysler should re design the front a lil bit n get this beauty on the road
It's very nice..the only thing I don't like is the PT CRUISER Grill
I love this car and it's a real shame they never released it to the public. Ever since I first seen in in 2000 playing GT2 I was in love just like that game made me love the PT Spyder as well.
Wow, now that’s a car! I want one!
Chrysler did have a flagship vehicle in 1997 it was the LHS
Unfortunately, not many exist today. Finding decent parts for my '95 Concorde is quite the challenge.
They wanted a V8 or bigger. Something nwith more of a statement
We all know this car would have had the SAME cheap Chrysler parts bin interior from the late 90's
I wouldn't care. This car looks dope.
Actually, Chrysler's interiors got bad after 1998 when Daimler started stripping them.
@@MyerShift7 I think the mid to late 2000s was their low point, the 2009 Dodge Ram is when they started to improve, and with their 2011 lineup, they actually weren’t bad imo, and the Pacifica from the early 2000s was pretty nice too.
Beautiful. Exciting and it should have been Chryslers Flagship...
COMPLETELY MISSED WAS THE 1941 CHRYSLER THUNDERBOLT .IT WAS A 2 SEAT ARROW DYNAMIC DESIGN BASED ON THE IMPERIAL CHASSIS. THE INFLUENCE OF THIS WAS CREATED IN 2004 AS THE MERCEDES MADE CHRYSLER CROSSFIRE. A 2 SEAT SPORTS CAR. IN 1941 6 WERE MADE .AND ONE WAS TILL ON THE AUTO SHOW CIRCUIT IN 1990. A SILVER VERSION SHOWN AT THE CHICAGO AUTO SHOW.
0:42 i like how the volkswagen phaeton is in the background lmao
I always wonder "what if?" when it comes to concept cars in general. How they could've reshaped the car industry today had they been released to some degree like it was as a concept. But I'm sure a great deal of them would've resulted in entire brand names going belly-up at the expense of a low production number car that will rise in value on the used market many years later.
Dude what if these concepts had made it
I thought this was a figment of my imagination that GT2 put in there
There is a Chrysler concept vehicle that made successful production ...
The minivan!
Mercedes was intimidated by things like this
Best birthday vid yet today
Hopefully Stellantis Let's Chrysler To get back in the game Great luxurious cars
i mean when was Chrysler actually in the game?
@@jbmazhar2000 I am talking Cadillac, Packard, Buick, and Lincoln competition back in the day not the 90s and certainly today. But hopefully they will get a lineup again.
@@PontiacFan68 Ahh i see, my mistake, i apologize. That's before my time. But yea it would be cool to see high end chrysler making dope cars.
@@jbmazhar2000 Yeah I hope Carlos Tavares the CEO of stellantis can turn FCA brands around when they need it.
@@PontiacFan68 I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here but i really wish FCA would up their reliability and build quality along with the value proposition on their vehicles. For eg. i absolutely love the look of the Jeep Grand Cherokee but its almost impossible to find one with an LSD used and they're "luxury" brand expensive new without all the bells and whistles. The average Grand Cherokee you see has a very basic on demand sort of a system or pseudo-manual "4wd" which uses a clutch based system similar to a honda pilot. The pilot, However, gets the same torque vectoring rear differential available in Acuras as standard equipment. I am also really tempted to buy a Dodge Ram which again is a fantastic looking vehicle and, having driven one as a work vehicle, it also rides very well. But horror stories from the maintenance department on the build quality of these vehicles plus the lack of a middle ground engine option between a gutless pentastar V6 and a thirsty, inefficient Hemi V8 is a strong deterrent for me. I just feel like FCA needs to do some simple common sense things and they just about have a formula for fantastic vehicles. Sorry.
Great overview of a remarkable concept car.
I like the front end, reminds me of International Semi Truck
That backseat looks like a deathtrap in an accident, you'd get decapitated by the cross member.
I believe it had backseat airbags
Some beautiful designs here.
Love the styling..
Thanks for describing it in minute detail. It helps totally blind RUclips viewers tremendously.
I could only find two faults (my own personal preference): Didn't look like the seats were adjustable and if it were a touring car, where does the luggage go if the top is open? Other than that, looks awesome.
Gorgeous! Our loss.
Super nice car for today, back then it was ahead of it's time but today it would be accepted to the point of sales would be through the roof.
Awesome concept
Would have liked to see the hard top in operation.
An Employee of Chrysler told me they are coming out with a super luxury car . $125,000 . The Imperial XX
That must be a pipe dream. Stellantis has not approved any new Chrysler vehicles.
Interesting that it looks like Ford borrowed a few design elements, such as the dropping line from front to rear, and the fender vent with the notch line as seen on the Ford Thunderbird.
I remembered it they should have went down this road.
It would've sold a lot.
I actually had never heard of the Phaeton before, nor had I heard of the Atlantic which is a takeoff of the Bugatti Atlantic. Love the look of both of them , and would I love to be able to buy either one of them today,,,WOW!
it's really sad: Chrysler has some of the best car designers on the planet but the "moving parts" are junk.
The Mercedes-Benz Ocean Drive Concept from 2007 was clearly an attempted revival of this Phaeton concept - it was the last concept car from Mercedes-Benz built under DaimlerChrysler - with the retro design influence Chrysler brought to Mercedes-Benz during that time (such as the PT Cruiser style wheel arches on the Mercedes W221)
This didn’t have Chryslers patented “Corinthian leather” ? Lol.
YOU DON;T KNOW THAT DO YOU!!!
@@richardfeibel3154 I know Corinthian leather is entirely made up. There is no such thing.
Man, the Phaeton in the 90's-early 2000's would've made you look like a god damn king driving around in it. There would've been nothing like it on the roads. It's a damn shame they didn't put it into production. Even if it was a limited run.
I love it, but I can see why something like this never made it to production. Then again during this era of Daimler Chrysler put out some cars that I normally would think might never make it past concept, like the Prowler, Magnum and even the 08 Challenger. They took a few chances.
So the original Phaeton was Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, basically? Lol I had to check that sentence like five times to make sure autocorrect didn't try to implement me 😁
Best of the flagship cars
I remember this from Gran Turismo 2
From the side the car looked outstanding. It made me think of an old "looking to the Future "promotion film. The Grill made me think of one of the Hyundai's. The backend, was let me say, interesting and the Dual Cowl, not so hot on that. Makes it look uncomfortable.
Cool..................................... 👍😉
Like most concept cars, I think this was just a design exercise, not intended to reach production, unlike the Chrysler Portofino which became the LH.
Very Cool Brother You need to Own a 300 to feel the Love
OMG it s a PT 300, Did they glue 2 3.5L together to make the V12? Haven't watched yet LOL
LOL two 2.7 litre v6s
@@jbmazhar2000 great two of chrysler's worst engines bolted together lol. Glad they canceled it.
@@repnatl yea pretty much, but it would be cool if the made it modern with maybe a forced induction v8
Great design, great car.
Cool car but I don’t remember seeing the car at museum.
I actually used it in GT2, wasn't the best handling car, but I mean...it was fun when you brought your memory card to a friend and chose a luxury barge to beat their fast lotus', Ruf's and general JDM stuff. As for reality, it sadly would've never worked due to several points: 1. though stylish and clean, the styling itself would not work in low class'. 2. The price of 60k dollars US is debatably very optimistic and highly improbable, because if they wanted to maintain a quality model that competed with the likes of lexus, mercedes and heck, even Lincoln and cadillac of the day, the fit and finish would've needed to be on par and 3. exactly that fit and finish in those days was Chrysler's weaker point. Which would damage the car's reputation and sales.
A beautiful car. Supercharged V8 today and use the space left over for even more leg room or a convertible hardtop. Now that would be a car!
Super clean car
I laugh every time I see the front of it; looks like an Italian guy saying ‘’hey, how ya doin’?”
Kinda looks like a Lancia Thesis.
That is a lovely looking car.... needs to be a little shorter.... but would look great on our roads today.
Wonder if this is marspeed custom song. The background music basically
They really should have produced the car. Lady luck is golden, she favors the bold.
An elder, being very wise, told me that when I was young.
Looks like it certainly had presence with it's side profile and it was cool to see it in Gran Turismo 2, but overall it did look kind of ugly in some angles and it handled horribly in said game.
But man....that picture at 0:41. Chrysler Phaeton, VW Phaeton, AND Spkyer C8 all in one photo (and a Rolls Royce I guess). One of the luckiest car photos I've ever seen.
Neat but look what happened with the pt cruiser that failed too overall
I have a history flaws and why it was cancelled vid for that on the channel!
Them PT Cruisers was everwhere. What are smokin'?
I like it, why not make cars with retro styling, the public taste changes yearly
What a bad ass looking machine. Compared to other styling of the year that would have certainly been a hit with guys like me.
Not to mention the other 2 concept
cars you showed...I just dont get why we consumers nearly always get these lame styled machines out of Detroit. My hat is of to Chrysler for things like the prowler, and it cruiser. But some of us want more then a box on wheels which is the typical offering, especially in the 4 doors
A little bit ugly but very cool
good video....lot of info was repeated though...could have been shorter.
Most excellent motor vehicle! 👌
Someone should electrify it and drive it around. With that body length you could get a serious amount of batteries in the body if they did a skateboard style battery section leaving the rest of the car to be itself and cruise quietly but majestically
So is nobody gonna talk about how it looks like the ware care off Futurama!?
aus welchem Plumsklo bist Du den abgehauen?
Gorgeous
I heard this car was supposed to come with a free Zoot Suit
Nice I like it
Don't expect corporations to please customers' taste
You need to do the Prowler bro!
EPIC!
You entirely fail to mention that just 8 months later Diamler purchased Chrysler and that this particlular car absloutely has major design cues carried in to the Maybach in years going forward.
I'm struggling to find even the most remote similarity between this and a Maybach other than being a large, four-door vehicle.
Cool car, but likely a nightmare to park, given its size.
A V12 would be about 1800 HP today.
i remember this monster from gran turismo 2
It's like a Disney attraction that failed and is now overgrown and abandoned-
Chrysler: Hmmm. Should we make exotic luxury cars, or build cheap crap where every square millimeter of the car is penny pinched cheapness?