What Really Is Ichigo's Dangai Form? - Bleach Theory | Tekking101
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- How exactly was the Hogyoku created and could it have something to do with the original state of existence that YHWACH spoke about? Could the different sources of power in Ichigo connect him in some way to that reality?
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What Really Is Ichigo's Dangai Form? - Bleach Theory | Tekking101
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I like to think Soul Palace Ichigo was stronger just because of the idea that "knowing the name increases the power". Ichigo finally knows himself, his origin, and his ability.
hos ichigo is way stronger tho?
@@lemmyk3699 We don't really know that he isn't. Yuha stopped him before he could use his bankai, and Yuha, by that point a transcendent god, said that he was afraid of Ichigo's bankai. Honestly I attribute it to the ending being rushed.
@@Midsomnyx Bro??? tb is literally his complete power while dangai was just fraccion of it? 😭
But one of bleach's main theme is sacrifice, and dongai ichigo sacrificed two years and all of his power.
@@Midsomnyx ywach said he gained his original strongest power also aizen grew stronger than he was here and ichigo is relative to eos aizrn
The one thing Aizen lacked, despite his genius, was real desperation and understanding of mortality. Ichigo being born on mortal earth, seeing the spirits of the dead knew how painful mortality can be, he had his mom die before him. The feeling a mortal man can have that a shinigami doesn't is the desperation to fight for existence. The Hogyoku could manipulate death, but it can't replicate life.
Damn , I like this
@@MaxIronsThird yes but not usually of old age and their life spans can basically be as long as they want them to be.
Good take, I'll allow it.
Couldn’t control the midichlorians.
@@IchigosBestFriend
I do too but I have no idea what it means 🤣
The Final Getsuga technique that Isshin knew and taught to Ichigo was purely a Shinigami technique. It probably was used to fuse the Zanpakuto with the Shinigami. So Ichigo using it also *accidentally* fused his Hollow and Quincy powers with him because of his nature.
Exactly. The combination of all those powers, Human, Shinigami, Hollow and Quincy should not be allowed to exist so it makes sense he was that strong.
That would mean we would see that used very often, not just from Ichigo, it acts like the Letz Stil and Quincy used that technique very often, even knowing they would lose their powers.
@@MaxIronsThird Shinigami society is different, though. The power level differences in seats in Gotei are so huge that they have so much trouble replacing Captains.The lack of conflicts also mean less battle experience. If anyone loses their powers they lose a lot of military power.
@@sleipnir_8364 The powers can be restored though, just like Ichigo and Ishida, with very different methods though.
@Baron Saturnyne WTF are you talking about?
Merging with the zanpakutou doesn't make you lose your powers.
Also fillers.
Ichigo being a walking hogyoku actually makes sense. He's a human, a quincy, a shinigami, a hollow and a fullbring. He's literally the world before the Soul King. I also think that Dangai is Ichigo reaching the Bleach equivalent to Nirvana.
He's not the world before the SK he's the closest a single being can be to the SK. That's y he & Ginjo are SK candidates they're the perfect mix of all races making them pseudo SK's in essence. In CFYOW we learn that the piece of Rangiko Aizen took was a nail of the SK & a lot of his fragments merged with souls after he was sealed likely making the hogyoku SK fragments. That's probably y its so powerful & can change reality being small chunks of the most powerful being ever
@@marcuswilliams2910 was it ever stated that ginjo was a mixed race? i always thought it was because he had a fragment of the soul kill just like all the other fulbringers.
@@joker123796 Yea in CFYOW we learn he's a soul king candidate just like Ichigo. Him, Ichigo & Hikone are the 'perfect" mixes of all the races with Ichigo's son likely being 1 too but isn't mentioned. I can't remember if he was born yet or not tho
@@marcuswilliams2910 to mu understanding a soul king candidate don't not have to be a perfect being, but contain a fragment of the soul king witch is distribute equal between the worlds in bleach.
wasnt hikone a Frankenstein type creation, supported by the soul kings fragments that tokinade got from killing ginjos fullbring crew?
i think the narrative implication is that having a fragment of the soul king can allow you to become a mix raced being.
@@joker123796 No Rangiku had a SK fragment as did the mothers of fullbringers that's y they get attacked so frequently. Hikone was a created being but was still made out of all tge races. Ginjo already had shigigami/hollow/fullbringer & got his Quincy power from Ichigo when he stole his fullbring. After he died & went to SS he kept all those powers, just having a SK fragment doesn't make ppl SK candidates from what we're told they have to be mixed beings or Aizen with the hogyoku which is likely a huge collection of SK fragments that let him transcend hollow & shigigami. Yhwach absorbed the SK's power so he doesn't need explanation
This theory makes even more sense when you factor in the reason ywach saw ichigo as a threat was his “unlimited potential”
In CFYOW it's confirmed that the Hogyoku is made of Soul King parts, and what Aizen was grabbing were his nails out of Rukon citizens.
The universe prior to the one we see is explained by Ichibe to have been a state of fluid existence, and that life and death were melded as one, with souls existing, fading away, and fading back in, with hollows eating souls only for them to return into existence.
The Dangai form was Ichigo after training for a few months, and what Kubo was going for with it was Aizen, the false god, being brought to his knees by a humans effort
But what was the dangai form, really? Was it the same thing Uryuu used against Mayuri in soul society since he's a quincy? Or is something every shinigami can do?
@@grimmitachi dangai was just Ichigo after training for a while, Mugetsu was likely a mix between a Shiba clan technique technique the Letz Stil
I bet aizen is probably related to the soul king
8:30 Not reiatsu, Aizen was feeding very small fragments of the Soul King to his Hougyoku, the Hougyoku might actually be just a conglomerate of the Soul King's fragments, aka a transcendent being even in the age of the Original World.
The Hogyouku might be something akin to Mimihagi or Pernida, just made of smaller pieces.
Don't know about Kisuke's version though.
Well kisuke is very shady and he was in charge of maggots nest for some time so it isn't impossible for him to kill or steal part of someone's soul for sk fragments especially when cfyow alludes to him having done many bad things himself in the past.
@@jankieek8218 True, and it's not like people just die after you take the fragment, Rangiku did just fine, and Aizen didn't really care at all if the people he experimented on lived or die.
That is the thing Aisens H was not Soul king frag,ents, Uraharas one was, that is why its the better on.
@@tristandimitrijev3195 false
Tekking is not using novels for this he is just using manga
Tekking talking Bleach? Dangai Ichigo? Damn, that's one cool post Christmas gift. Nobody talks enough about this form. People always talks about Final Getsuga and not the Dangai with merged Zangetsu.
I've always liked to call it "Final Bankai" since it's the final time he uses bankai (until he gets his powers back) and because it looks like a more complete form of his Bankai
his dangai form looked more like a bankai than his actual bankai, i wished it was like a form/mode he can enter in his bankai like bykuya's senbonzakura kageyoshi has its senkei mode in his bankai where it forms a black dome and many swords gather around that dome
@@shadowstorm9363 Yeah it would've been really cool imo if for example, the fight with Ginjo was a bit more even, but then he places his hand on his wrist and the chain from tensa zangetsu extends up his arm and the gauntlet forms, and then we transition into the beat down
It reminds me of CC Yamamoto’s bankai. Both compress their power into smaller blades, cloak the body, and use super powerful cuts. I doubt Ichigo would have an army of ash zombies to summon though.
Beyond bankai more like
14:16 just to put it out there in cfyow orihime is referred to by ginjo as a fullbringer. Cfyow also talk about what fullbringers really are and where their powers come from. Essentially the pregnant mothers attacked by hollows isn't what causes fulbring. The novels explain that each fullbringer has a fragment of the soul king inside of them essentially. While the hollow attacks do cause them to have the ability to activate their powers it is essentially just a trigger to activate the fragments. Although it isn't stated it's possible the reason that Chad and orhime are both different is because it is implied their powers were activated by the hyogoku or their exposure to ichigos related which was constantly spilling out. One final thing in the novels it also states that the part aizen took from rangiku was a very large fragment of the soul king and that's what really boosted his version of the Holyoke power wise. With that I imagine that uraharas also had a fragment of the soul king. That being said that goes a long way in explaining ywhachs reaction to the hyogoku.
P.S sorry for the rambling 😅
Thet is wrong
Not every fullbring hase a fragment of the soul king
Only some and the only one we know off is the female fullbring cult leader
Any person shinigami or not can posses a soul king fragment inside of him
@@adam-dn3hi I don't think I'm mistaken. From my understanding it's revealed in the third novel that those are the requirements for fullbring. That's why tokinada had ginjos friends killed so he could use those fragments to help build hikone. Granted I would have to go back and check.
The moment you understand how important SK, you immediately understand why Ichigo is so strong and why he had a fullbring
@@adam-dn3hi bro, aren't you the guy in SOLO LEGION's every MUGEN video?
@@mikedanielespeja6128 i am in alot of his videos i guess
Idk if i am in all of them
7:59 The way I see it, Aizen became that strong because the Hogyuku followed his desire to break down the limits of a shinigami/ hollow, thus allowing him to become a being that transcends both shinigami and hollow.
Meanwhile, Ichigo is a natural born hybrid, he didnt need the hogyoku because he already naturally has a transcendent nature, he just couldnt use those powers because he hadnt accepted them as a part of him yet, which is why he could sense Aizen´s reiatsu before despite not being at his level of power. It is also why I think that TYBW Ichigo is as strong, if not stronger, than Dangai Ichigo, because he finally accepted them as a part of him in "the blade is me".
actually the natural hybrid thing doesn't work as his reiatsu was unstable to the point urahara wanted to give him the hogyoku to stablise his reiatsu. the thing that actually stablised his reiatsu was apparently his fullbring which even after the tbyw awakening had problems fully keeping the reiatsu within his body.
I remember reading a fan manga which said that Final Getsuga Tensho was the ultimate technique of the Shiba clan in the same way that Nanao Ise used her family’s weapon to kill Lille
i guess that makes some sense yes
I believe it was my fan manga right? :D
Every nobly clan has some sort of secret weapon/zanpakuto. Shiba - mugetsu, ise - shinken hakkyōken, tsunayashiro - enra kyoten, kuchiki - Muramasa(confirmed from cfyow novel)
@@Soupshark11 cool to see muramasa canonized!
@@maxfadedraws yes! Wow what a coincidence!
For me, dangai ichigo is basically ichigo at full power. Kind of like how your jaw has enough power to bite off your own tongue, but your brain doesn’t allow it to do so, the dangai form is like this, using all of ichigo’s power, regardless of consequence. The way i see it, quincy zangetsu didn’t limit his power in this form because he knows ichigo will lose them, so there was no point to suppress it. In my opinion, Ichigo at the end of the series reached this power, but still had “limits” in order not to harm himself, like the brain telling you not to bite off your own tongue.
Kinda agree, but to me it was trully his max power, we the part that make him lose his power is not so much the Dangai state, but the final one, the all black Mugetsu, THAT is the Final Getsuga technique true form
So then Dangai is most likely his true uncapped power state, and most likely, had the series not been axed, lets hope tha anime gives us a complete ending, we would have seen his Bankai state basically being as strong as the Dangai state
@@Hc2p3n4t4rp the series weren't axed 🗿
Yeah in a nutshell. Tensa zangetsu became a mix of teen ywach and zangetsu, stabbed ichigo with the blade and then ichigo received all that power into himself.
It's really that simple imo.
@@Hc2p3n4t4rp dangai is 3 months worth of training, mugestu is throwing his spirit power. SP Ichigo shikai is stronger than Mugestu. Seththeprogramor and Clyde explained it pretty well.
@@elysainempire4628 writing a long comment to prove Ichigo never trained to get stronger, but to realize his true strength
Ichigo’s Dangai looks a more complete transcendent form of his Bankai. But his Mugetsu form is a foreshadowing of his Quincy heritage & Ywhach/Zangetsu relation. Plus the Black reiatsu just like Ywhach’s/Soul King’s reiatsu later on in the TYBW arc
His dangai form was like a preview of his true shikai (where he realised that he was his zanpakuto and they were him). Mugetsu was definitely foreshadowing all the quincy stuff and the soulking/Yhwach black energy stuff.
@@matthewjutzen424 I don’t think it was a foreshadowing to Quincy powers because isshin even said himself he could learn just his sword won’t teach him and he’s def not a Quincy.
@@SirNanfa Yeah… I would agree but just because Ishinn isn’t a Quincy doesn’t mean he can’t learn Final Getsugatensho. The reiatsu and form would just be different from what we saw Ichigo have. Isshin has a fire type zanpakuto. The reiatsu of his final getsugatensho would probably be red or something like flames. It just happens to be Ichigo’s is black reiatsu resembling the soul king/ywhach paired with the long black hair which is clearly even further indication of the old man Zangetsu/ywhach connection. He got longer hair before in his fully hollowfied state vs ulquiorra but it stayed orange, and that was his Hollow/Shinigami powers on full display
@@sxuuxp you can really argue about this all day long, but i would agree with the other guy, the black hair and reiatsu is not really an indication that ichigo is a quincy, rather, it's more related with ichigo's hollow side, we can reference B:BS ichigo and his mastered fullbring form, it is described as ichigo using his shinigami,hollow and fullbring powers at their fullest extend(maybe not the best wording for the formchange but i digress) without bringing quincy powers into the mix, and like wise we can also view quincy ichigo's formchange, his hair gets slightly longer but his haircolour does not change, the form was basically described to be ichigo full potential as a quincy,shinigami and hollow and every single one of his reishi infused arrows are also ceros themselves.
It should be noted that both forms were drawn by kubo himself, so hopefully we see them in the anime as filler after TYBW ends or who knows, i suppose we just have to wait and see what changes, Kubo is the lead writer/author for the anime after all.
Mugetsu was his form of Quincy Letz Still. He even states that famous line. WHEN I BECOME GETSUGA. He uses all of his reiatsu in an attack. The difference is both Zangetsu and Yhwach inside of him have stopped holding him back and fighting for control.
So my theory (since Kenpachi was reveled to have a Shikai and Byskuya question the existence the always released Zanpakto) is that Mugetsu is Ichigo’s true Bankai. In a lot of major fights they make is clear that Ichigo’s own power is so overwhelming it damages his own soul, like when he fight Renji and Byakuya and gets slower as the fight goes on. Mugetsu, his true Bankai, holds such power that it crushes his own soul to the point where it destroys his own power.
Underrated theory based in some real understanding of the manga. Kudos
I was convinced about this theory for the longest time and still kind of think that kubo might change up the end of the anime. Personally I think if that's the case mugetsu didn't rob ichigo of his powers because of the power necessarily but because he had no asauchi and his quincy powers were still out of balance with his shinigami powers. By the end of the series I think with ichigos powers balanced out he would theoretically be able to handle the power.
Jesus! How many "true" forms does that thing need?
how deep do the lies go?
minor truths being revealed instead of the hole truth slowly piecing together the true true form
@@SuperBlaze117 I think you mean.. Kubos
I think it's more with Ichigo been a being who sits on all four boundaries he is closer to being a Soul King entity.
Because they were considering putting Ichigo on the throne hence the tickets from Shunsui Kyōraku were given to his friends.
The central 46 and the now Captain Commander considered the Soul King dying and were prepping an appropriate replacement.
Actually tekking ichigo during TYBW is on par with mugetsu ichigo, they both had reiatsu just physically coming off of them. Although if at this point ichigo trained in the dangai again, or used mugetsu again, it'd be way stronger than the original.
The only special thing about the Dangai was that it was a place were time flowed faster then the outside world/worlds.
It was basically a pseudo hyperbolic time chamber from Dragon Ball.
The real question are.
1) can Ichigo even use the Final Getsuga tensho/mugetsu again?
And 2) does he have to train for it again or does he still know how to do it from before?
@@wildstorm3486 Well its a technique so he should be able to use it but he wouldn't want to use it again since he hated being powerless.
It's the actually guy XD
Thet is completlly wrong
Reiatsu always flows out of ichigo body no mattre in wich form
Dangai is littrly all of his powers fused into him with 2 mounths of training to control them
@@adam-dn3hi Ywach says Ichigo had regained his powers he once had (aka during his fight against Aizen), and this was when Ichigo was only in his unreleased form, so if that doesnt tell you True Shikai and True Bankai are >>>>>>>> Dangai/Mugetsu idk what will. Also just compare the difference in abilities between Almighty Ywach and Hogyoku Aizen and try to tell me Dangai is anywhere near as strong as True Shikai or True Bankai ichigo.
The way I always thought it had worked was Ichigo is at a point of self realization of his own nature similar to how insanely strong he was after realizing the truth to zangetsu and his power. I also always thought that there were always different natures to individual existence similar to hollows and shinigami just without the name. We don't have a whole lot of information about the presplit of existence but I thought it was implied Ichibei was older than that. Also, quincies were only made after Ywach by his nature of power as a split piece of the soul king like his hands and heart. I have not read the full light novels but the noble houses are said to exist before as well if you count those as cannon.
Dangai Ichigo=Chad Ichigo. Despite the BS of this only happening for Plot it was still cool. A shame that the new Bankai lasted a single page and got broke, just plain stupid.
What?
I think you're on the right track, and I actually got to your conclusion before you even straight up said it. So nice work explaining it!
I think this recent video(linked at the bottom) by Rebirth, that goes into how the different types of beings in bleach balance each other out, will help this theory make more sense.
And as far as what the Hougyoku is actually made out of, I believe it's at least partly made up of pieces of the Reio. Which seem to be distributed at random to certain humans & shinigami. (and presumably hollows & quincies, as well) I believe this is what was stolen from Rangiku and why she was targeted specifically. (This could also be what helps to keep the world's balanced & separated)
This also makes sense in ichigo's case because (spoilers for CFYOW) that's what fullbringers are, humans with a piece of the Reiō embedded in them. This is also why their mothers are often attacked by hollows when pregnant, because it's basically pure concentrated reiastu (and/or possibly the primordial matter you hypothesized) that acts like a beacon calling to hollows.
Which ties back into your theory because the Reiō was probably made up of that same primordial matter, which is most likely equal parts Quincy, human, shinigami, and hollow, or at least the Reiastu that makes up those beings' souls/rei. Which would make sense for why it's able to break down the barriers put up by the original heads of the five noble families and the Reiō. But now I'm just rambling, lol
Whatever the case, it's interesting stuff, and I'm just glad that we actually have more Bleach (and Tekking bleach reviews) to look forward to : )
Edit: one knock on Rebirth's video is that it doesn't take into consideration the animal realm or hell, but I still think he's fundamentally on to something
ruclips.net/video/E94P2-JYloM/видео.html
Tekking coming back with the bleach uploads and I’m here for it
Dangai Ichigo is my absolute favorite shounen moment--that facepalm against Aizen was the best thing since sliced bread.
Watched all the way through. Absolutely love ur content. Good to see u again T✌🏽
Your videos are hella long man, but they fly by so quick bc you bring such good points and I’m almost sad when the vid finishes. It would be so cool if kubo could hear it and give his opinions on these points. Anyway, another great video, I really enjoyed it!
Love it Tekking! Shows use how advanced Tite Kobi is with his writing and storytelling which opens discussion for so many things.
Call it what it is...
*AIZEN's WORST NIGHTMARE*
Definitely nice to see more Bleach content in general. Hopefully some of these questions get answered in the future.
I personally like this idea that it's matter/energy from before the realms split.
That pop you did at 10:25 was pretty good, ya should be popping more often :D
I would like to believe, Ichigo's power is to rewrite his own destiny.
More theory videos please.
In the Can’t Fear Your Own World novel Ichibe does say that although it would have upset him he would have sacrificed Ichigo to become the new lynchpin if Yhwach ended up not being a viable option.
bro im so happy to get more content from you. thousand year blood war arc ... here we go !!
This right here. Videos like this is why I love your channel
I always headcanoned that Dangai-Ichigo is a "limit burst" of sorts for him. It uses every power he has at his deposal to an apocalyptic degree of damage he can put out.
It's also why, when using Final Getsuga Tensho, he is the closest to resembling Yhwach than he is any other time.
Honestly this theory makes a lot of sense. Plus it’s so subtle that it would actually fit into Kubo’s writing style
This is an excellent video! Keep it up, loved your theory
"Im gonna have to go off on a few tangents so it makes sense so bare with me" Matthew........ we all watch ur channel and i cant speak for everyone else about their favorite RUclipsr you're mine but all of us here, we bare with you every video and we love you for it
tekking and bleach… the best combo
I always saw it as the same way as Gon's deal with his nen. Like the Getsuga is a big explosion of uncontrolled power. Kind of like how when you're a teenager your emotions just burst out of you. Ichigo's Bankai lets him actually WEAR that power as his shihakusho (i think that's the getup's name). So it stands to reason that "becoming the Getsuga" means wearing all the power he'd ever have, and then releasing it like a Getsuga. Still I don't see how Isshin knew about it, but that's how I saw the Dangai form.
(this is when im 8 mins in the video so if he brings this up im not copying him)
Isshin knowing about it, is sort of handwaved as him realizing that he and Ichigo have similar spiritual pressure and thus similar swords, the only difference would be Ichigo having the traces of Hollow power from Shiro, but then Isshin's power was literally used to cure that infection, so realistically he might have been infected the same way the Vizards were.
Every caption is being given a mugetsu equal in BBS. Design's were made by Kubo. Every shinigami can fuse with their zanpakto looks like.
@@sarthakarora3212 what are those called so i can look em up?
Isshin knew about it because he also had the getsuga tensho
@@randomgod8185 Beyond bankai forms, kenpachi and unohana got one yesterday. Btw they have SAFWY attached to their names but they are not at linked with SAFWY arc in the novels, it's just that are being released as units in SAFWY banners.
I hope we get more videos like this, I'd appreciate more bleach content of course but just this felt like hanging out with a friend at 3am and having a deep ass discussion about an anime and the inner, non-canon, workings. It brings some sense of weird nostalgia
17:50 my brain exploded when you made the connection that Ichigo is the closest being to a hogyoku, which as you stated embodies existence from when all beings were one entity. Everything makes sense now
If you think end of series ichigo is weaker than deicide aizen you should probably rethink your base understanding of story structure
I view it like every race has a hard cap of "10", and no matter how much they train or are gifted, they can only ever top out at that hard 10. But if another race is added, that's a new scale. Aizen had shinigami and hollow, so he could achieve 10s on two scales for a total of 20 - much higher than the perceived "max" of those with only one race. Ergo, Ichigo with 4 races could achieve 40, a feat Aizen with two races could scarcely comprehend.
I'm imagining a human reaching that 10 and being on par with a top tier shinigami. How would that have to look
@@laziness6641 ludicrous fullbring I guess
@@kingrippzard2027 "watch me turn this hockey puck into a nitrogen bomb dispenser"
Aisen knew all of that.From the start, wasnt suprised when he got out of the gate to soul society.It
It has to come downt to Aisen not undrstanding or knowing about Quincy powers.
ok but yamamoto
ABSOLUTELY LOVE These types of videos
I really like this theory you've crafted Tekking; it explains a lot, ties up a good amount of loose ends, and in general makes a lot of sense. I think that the parallels you drew between Bleach and the Samsara make a lot of sense as well based on what you spoke of it, because it feels like it fits a lot with Kubo's style of writing. The only thing I'd say you forgot to mention (at least, the only thing I noticed) is that Ichigo is also a Fullbringer; specifically, you forgot to mention it while calculating all of Ichigo's combined abilities when you were nearing the result of your comparison between him and the Hogyoku, but even so the essence of what you were going for was still there so not really a big deal. But yeah, great video here dude!
It was his hyperbolic time chamber. Remember when byakuya told him mastering takes 10 years. Well he learned it quickly so he mastered it and unlocked the alternative form. Senbonsakura had Shuukei Hakuteiken. Zangetsu had Final Getsuga Tensho.
Facts
It's more than Shuukei Hakuteiken...Ichigo fused with his zanpakuto when battling butterfl-Aizen, so it was many dimensional tiers above what Byakuya could have possibly imagined him to master, even after seeing him with bankai. The only 2 people to fuse with their zanpakutos are Aizen and Ichigo...it's the stage above bankai and is pretty rare shit.
I still remember how the anime made the scene when mugetau happened as more hype in the anime while the manga felt more somber with tensa zangetsu looks sad seeing ichigo use it.
I am repeatedly surprised at how you can speak so freely about a topic and still be able to spin a great common thread to follow along, where you don't contradict yourself and your audience doesn't get confused by a chaotic mess ( somthing I would produce when talking about a topic without a strict script ). In this video I was easily able to follow your thinking and understood, what your message was. Your whole video was built up to lead to the finale point that Ichigo was essentially like a Hogyoku himself and that's why he could evolve so much during the 2-month Dangai training with Isshin. Great Theory as always!
Tekking talking about Bleach is always a great Christmas gift!
Pretty sure Ywach has a statement that when Ichigo turns up in his new Shikai that he's the strongest he's ever been in that moment. So that statement from him seems to imply that TYBW Ichigo in Shikai is stronger than Mugetsu. So that's a fun fact if you want to buy into Ywach's words as gospel
That might have been saying Ichigo’s total power was higher than before, but he wasn’t using all of it.
Kubi has said fullbring ichigo is stronger then mugetsu. Yhwach words are gospal.
@@kokofan50 he didn't say total power. He says the power you used to cut down the soul king . Ichigo cut the soul king in base shikai. Base shikai Ichigo=mugetsu.
Dangai just bonded all of them before Ichigo was really ready. Ultimate power to win then and there with the price of losing it.
Soul Palace Ichigo he fully realized the truth of his past and powers. Fuses them all with no price to pay.
Great theory, loved hearing your thoughts on it!
It makes alot sense, especially given the statement by Ichibe in CFYOW of how Ichigo is a potential soul king candidate. If Ichigo is in fact the closest thing in existence to what existed prior to the current Bleach world, then it makes sense that he would be a viable replacement to Reio (a being that came from the pre-current Bleach world).
Appreciate you sharing, very cool stuff to ponder. Thanks for all you do!
You know what always amazes me whenever I watch any of his videos? It's his grammar and his vernacular they never cease to amaze me
I always just took it as a foreshadow of him having Quincy heritage by using Letzt Stil without calling it that because (a) Isshin knew he had quincy blood, (b) the Mugetsu form had similar posture/shape to Uryu using Letz Stil against Mayuri, and (c) like Uryu he lost his powers after using it. We found out later that Zangetsu was the personification of his Quincy powers, not a zanpakto, so having to sacrifice those powers lines up with Litz Stil.
I quite like this idea, since both of them regained their powers by being struck to the right of the heart as well.
Ryuken did say the only way to regain powers lost to the Letzt Stil was a spiritual arrow 19mm to the right of the heart while your mind and body are exhausted though, so Ichigo doesn't fill those requirements at all.
Considering the weird hybrid Ichigo is though, and the fact he was stabbed by a sword infused with the power of all the captains and vice captains (which the quincy never would have tested) I guess it still makes sense he'd regain his powers.
@@Abyssionknight the spirit arrow is made of spirit energy,
Just like that sword they stabbed him with.
In fact, it was made with the express purpose of giving back his powers.
And remember when he was stabbed.
He was stabbed when he was at his lowest,
When his body is exhausted, all his powers he gained stolen,
And his friends betraying him.
At the moment, he thought even his father has betrayed him and was about to break
@@justawhim Not Rukia, his father. He couldn't see her. But yeah.
@@nahuel3433 Good catch
Are we ever even given confirmation that Isshin used final getsuga? I never read the manga all that much, just bits and pieces here and there so correct me if I’m wrong. But are we just taking Isshin at his word that he knows final? He says he knows it but has never used it. And who’s to say Isshin even knows getsuga tensho in the first place? Getsuga is the only technique Ichigo uses, it would have been easy to connect the dots in that case but it is never called into question, no one ever questioned why Ichigo knew/used a technique a former captain did. Sure it may not have been thought of at the time by Kubo but looking back it is a glaringly obvious plot hole.
Isshin has been pretty much spouting bullshit for the entirety of Ichigo’s life before finally telling him his true heritage. How do we know final getsuga wasn’t just made up bullshit under the assumption of knowledge of Ichigo’s heritage as a Quincy and the Letz Still technique?
Dangai is the 3rd step in the evolution of a zanpakuto where the sword fuses with the body and Mugetsu is the final form where the user and the zanpakto become one. The same thing can be seen in aizen transformations. This is why aizen didn't use bankai because he was 2 stage above bankai.
Add to fact Kubo has given captions beyond bankai in BBS game.
He isn't a real captain
@@sarthakarora3212 he isn't a real captain
Wow Tekking, interesting to see you dive into the Hogyoku stuff and how that could influence the manifestation of Chad, Orihime and even Ichigo's powers and their paths through the series
I haven't been on this channel much since bleach ended, but tekken has a new room? Congrats
Well first the hygoukou was stated in the novels that the hygoukou is made out of fragments of the soul king that's what they were taking out of rangikou
2nd dangia is your zanpaktou returning to it's origin merging with your right hand and mugetsu is you fully becoming the zanpaktou which explains why aizen will never go ban Kai he has already gone to a form beyond bankai he has fully merged with the zanpaktou
first, it was rukia not rangiku.
second, it was never stated that aizen have never achieve bankai or not. kubo just couldn't find a better bankai for aizen because his shikai is too op.
@@johnlabu1154 lol no it was not rukia rukia was only used to hide kisukes hogyoku. It was in fact rangiku that aizen stole a piece of the reio from when she and gin were kids
@@Nekogami04 safwy is not canon right?
@@jakesexton3640 yeah, aizen stole from every kids in every districts that have a bit of spiritual pressure.
@@johnlabu1154 yes it is. Safwy is Canon
I’m surprised that people actually think that Dangai Ichigo is on the same level as true shikai Ichigo.
Awesome episode definitely got me thinking I need to re watch and read the bleach series again
Love the occasional bleach video, keep it up tekking!
I believe that Tensa Zangetsu lied about the final getsuga tensho. He granted Ichigo the ability to use Mugetsu but what if Mugetsu is a quincy/ywach technique and not really a Shinigami one ? The only dimension that Aizen forgot about Ichigo's power is Quincy. He didn't know that his mother was directly link to Ywach bloodline. Hell, I also believe that black reiatsu is quincy. To me it makes sense that Aizen was overpowered by Ichigo at that moment.
Also, when Tensa Zangetsu merge with Hollow Ichigo - HE merge. The only thing remaining about his shinigami power is the fur and the horn on Tensa Zangetsu, but the main guy here is STILL the embodiment of his quincy powers. Hollow Ichigo did not teach Mugetsu to Ichigo - Quicy Zangetsu did.
Mugetsu character design has also strong resemblance with Ywach powers more than his hollow/shinigami ones (did we ever saw hollow ichigo in the inner Ichigo world use a black getsuga? Or a black cero from Vasto Lorde?). He even has red eyes like Ywach and no black sclera. (and also "My son born in darkness" & all of that stuff...)
Maybe Aizen was beaten by a technique that comes directly from Ywach very own powers after all.
Oh another interesting theory. Also here’s some food for thought.
Ichigo’s Quincey friend used a technique that robbed him of his quince powers after he used it.
And he gains his powers back after his dad fires a Quincy arrow into his souls chain area.
And how does Ichigo get his powers back?
By Rukia stabbing him in the same area on Ichigo with a reshi sword powered up by the Gote 13.
It sure is an interesting parallel right?
The only thing that pokes a hole in it(that I can think of at least) is the fact the Ichigo’s dad can aperantly use the final getsuha tensho as well.
@@wildstorm3486 this makes perfect sense
@@wildstorm3486 But in isshin's case it should kill him since he's a soul
@@wildstorm3486 He can learn the final getsuga tensho but he didn't speak about "Mugetsu".
I think his dad has his own version of the FGT - which he never actually learned because his Zanpakuto refused to teach him.
tekking you really need to start brushing up on your bleach lore and read the novels.
Dangi ichigo is basically ichigo with 3 month of training.
the reason this would make sense is that during fake karakura he was the only who was able to sense cocoon azine spiritual power making him relative to cocoon azine, and when he told his father that he can sense azine power and ishine couldn't that when ishine suggested for him to learn final getsuga.
This is why I love this Channel. His theories make actual deep sense.
glad to see you making more bleach videos tekking
I think its similar to Toshiro's "mature Bankai" form
I would very much like to have seen Dangai Ichigo make an appearance in the final arc.
yes plzzzz
thank you bro i see youre spirit energy has returned
I have read and heard a lot of explanations on orihime and Chad‘s powers and I have to admit that by far your explanation makes the most sense.
The final getsuga doesn´t actually have any draw backs. The only reason ichigo lost his power was because the zampakutou he had at the time was not his true one because it was not made wiht an asaushi ( that´s why the form doesn´t change to the true banaki form dispete it representing ichigos 100% power), so, the blade itself was not able to cointain such a powerfull attack, that´s why when ichigo uses mugetsu the blade is not even a blade anymore cause it can´t maintain it´s form so it´s just pure reatsu.
ichigo could actually use mugetsu as many times as he wants with no draw backs after he achived his true bankai, he just needed to do some trainning with it like all other people with bankai in order to master it.
It´s like Rukias bankai, Rukia changes her form and can´t move at all, after she masters it 10 years later she can now move freely in bankai mode, same would apply for the black hair mugetsu form, Ichigo activates it while in bankai and, after mastery of it, could move around and performe normal getsugas or even mugetsu without any draw back. He just lost his powers cause the zampakuto he had at the time was fake, that´s why it was not able to contain such a powerfull attack. Kubo just didn´t have time to use this in the final figth of the series, the guy was basicly slowly dying and had to end it, that´s why the anime is so important cause there´s a chance Kubo will be able to use the mugetsu form without any draw backs like it was always suppose to. Everytime Kubo gets asked on Klub outside about ichigos powers/dangai/true bankai ability he never responds and says it´s something that should be revealed in the story and not on a SBS type site, Oda does the same he can´t just tell the people on an SBS what the One Piece is for example or the will of D, those are important parts of the story that should be revealed in it.
If you remmember issihn also has the final getsuga and it was never said that if he used his, he would lose his shinigami powers, why? cause isshin went to the academy and shit he was given a proper asaushi. The only thing he said was that his zampakuto doesn´t like to tech those tecnichs because they are so dangerous, possibly not even to the user but the world itself ( ichigos was erasing mountains just by moving his blade), possibly because the technics is just way 2 hard to control or master.
Also the dangai form doesn´t just represent ichigo with 100% of his power, he was there trainning for 3 months nonstop for sleep eat or anything just 24/7 trainning for 3 months, so basic stuff like speed, strength, reaction, etc all those basic aspects of battle were also improved that´s why he can bitch slap aizen so easily he has so much more basic physical strength from the nonstop 3 months of trainning.
A couple points on some of the things you said tekking.
you were not sure if yhwach was related to the soul king, yhwach is the son of the soul king
Even inside of ichigo the quincy reatsu and the hollow one don´t mix, the rigth side of ichigos body is the hollow/shinigami reatsu and the left part of his body is the quincy one they don´t actually mix together, what can happen is, parts of the reatsu from one side can try to go a bit into the opposite side thats wha t ahppened in his figth vs yhwach that gave us the Horn of Salvation, the overflowing quincy reatsu from constantly attacking yhwach overloads the shinigami/hollow part and it started going into the left side of ichigo body ( the quincy part) that´s why the Horn and most of the marks on the Horn of Salvation form are on Ichigos left side of his body.
Also i belive the Dangai and Final arc ichigo do have basicly equal power, it´s jsut that ichigo had better control of it on the war arc. Why doesn´t he erased mountains in the final arc like in dangai form? well the human world mountains are much less resistant then the buildings made of reatsu of the soul society/vanderrich/soul palace. The reason why sunshui went to the human world to give the soul tickets to ichigos friends to visit him was because he was making a precaution of ichigo obtainning the dangai level of power or even higher and not being able to control it, forcing him to stay in the soul society.
Finaly yhwach ideia was indeed to return the world to that inital point before the soul king creation without life and death and the reason was mainly because even yhwach fears death, fear is a very commoun theme in bleach so it´s fitting that the final villain himself despite being so op and able to revive after 999 years still doesn´t actually want to die and fears death.
i think the most important thing to keep in mind when discussing this topic is dagai ichigo does not equal mugetsu and that they are 2 spereat forms.
dangai ichigo is just ichigo with 3 months training where as mugutsue us a technique/form that makes him insanely powerful.
because dangai ichigo is just ichigo with 3 moths of training i woulda argue that fullbring bankai ichigo is equal to or grater than dangai ichigo.
Fulbring bankai ichigo was able to scrap with ywach despite being fatigued, second the fullbring training made him stronger so when he gets his powers back he gets the same level of power as dangai ichigo + fullbring which then would makes sense why even after being fatigued he was able to scrap with ywach.
Isshin actually does say he'd lose his power when he's talking to Urahara about finally having his powers back.
Urahara says he hopes Isshin doesnt blame him for his diminished powers and Isshin replies with "why would I? It's my ability."
@@corruptangel6793 Isshin never lost his powers because of the use of the final getsuga. His powers were on stand by because of things that happened in the manga ( don´t know if you´ve read it that´s why i´m not saying exactly why). But yes he never lost his powers because of a use of final getsusa. The reason why he tells that to urahara it´s because his powers being on stand by is related to urahara.
@@joker123796 I´m not a power scaler i just have a roft ideia, power scaling sites do put his Horn of Salvation much higher in power then his other forms so would make sense
@@narttaker93 i have read the Manga so I know about the seal. Plus it's mentioned in that very scene, the only thing we didn't was the circumstances around the Seal.
We know Isshin had the Final Getsuga Tenshou, we know the seal required all his power, and we see him use a giant Getsuga Tenshou in Misaki's innerworld to destroy (obviously it wasn't literally destroyed but that's the visual we're given) the giant hollow mask threatening to consume her, obviously embodying White's reiatsu that's killing her. And as I pointed out, Isshin implies the reason his power could not be accessed was because of his ability. We just didn't know what it was at the time.
The way I see it, Isshin, under Urahara's guidance, used the Final Getsuga Tenshou to create the seal which then continued to siphon his spiritual energy to maintain itself.
The only question now is if he still has his Shikai/Bankai or if that's been lost permanently. If it is, that would explain why Urahara and Isshin used "diminished" in present context when talking about his powers. He's regained the use of his spirit energy and spirit pressure, but has lost Engetsu. This would also explain why he never used Shikai, let alone Bankai, when fighting Aizen.
First- Dangai ichigo isnt Completey out of nowhere.
Second- If kubo foreshadowed the "Final" it wouldn't make us understand. Probably more annoyed than it has.
Third- Bleach power scaling isnt the Typical power system.
1- kubo has talked about the Dangai in the substitute arc before th eery left for Soul society.
I haven't Seen any soul reaper practice all there techniques. They don't have the technique, they use the technique within the Zanpaktô, which is the soul of the shinigami.
Kubo has shown regular shikai training, but I haven't seen anyone practice Bankai unless its with kisuke tool to draw our the soul of a zanpakto in the SS arc. And we didn't see ichigo training with it either.
3- spiritual pressure isn't like devil fruits,Dragonball. It closer to chakra but not even it. The zanpakto knows its power and technique *NOT* the reaper wielding it
For me, a little head canon of mine is to think of dangai ichigo's as like the totality of something in bleach brave souls of the beyond bankai stuff they are throwing around. And is something all captains can do in accepting the blade of the zanpakto to perform the act of completely fusing with the sword. As the line "the sword is me" is a strong quote of that.
Love the video keep up the great work
First
Tekking my dude just read the CFYW novel, it explains what the hogyouku is, also what the original realm was like and pretty much the origins of Quincys, Soul society/soul reapers and fullbrings
I am french and i liked a lot your video, i understood all you said, you spoke well :) i was also wondering all you said, happy to se i am not the only one to asking same questions lol
It took me a while to come up with this, but I think Final Getsuga is like a rare but similar method to how the Sanrei glove works for Quincy. Both allow for the user to use as much power as possible within a short time, but also costs the user their power. Both have the user fusing with their weapon (aside from the Sanrei glove's bow being part of the glove itself). But what I think both do is open the pathways of spiritual energy to the maximum amount of power the user has, as those are located around the wrists (and could be around the ankles too, would explain how people can move fast or fly). Choking these same pathways causes the user's spirit energy to violently detonate, like what happened with Aizen when Urahara tried it. It'd be like a fast-tracked version of the Eight Gates technique in Naruto but with no physical ramifications beyond exhaustion. Since Isshin knows his zanpakuto can do it, I could assume it's related to the Shiba lineage. Only a few members of the Shiba family have zanpakuto, and only two out of three know the technique exists. I'd like to think that the technique is specific to members of the Shiba family, but it's incredibly rare AND requires the development to reach the point of learning it. Maybe it's so rare that Isshin and Ichigo are the first in several generations to even have the potential for it, much less be able to reach the point of knowing it exists.
Nice theory, I’m actually feeling it. Thanks Tekking!
Another great one Tekking!
I believe you're on right track with Dankai Ichigo resembling the primordial universe. Given that in CFYOW it was mentioned that Ichigo might have been placed as new Soul King, maybe Dankai Ichigo was close to what a new Soul King would had been, and how original Soul King was. It might had been that Ichigo was however unable to hold that power within him, which was why it was temporary form.
Isshin might had known of this form because he was head of Shiba family and knew that inside Ichigo there were shinigami, hollow, human and quincy forms, making him a Soul King candidate.
WHOA!!
THE NEW ROOM LOOKS AMAZING, GREAT JOB!!!
I present to you "Tekking101: Cold Cases!". Absolutely fascinating topic good sir 👍
everything u said was pretty much wad ive been wondering forever ,good shid
Nice theory. I'd be interested in hearing your take on Soul Palace Ichigo vs Dangai ichigo.
💜 absolutely love your enthusiasm
I actually have theory on this that I have been waiting to get of my chest for a while and know is a perfect time to do so. I think that dangai Ichigo is the way he is because of a family technique that allows the user to get a ton of power in exchange for temporary loss of their powers.
The reason that ichigos was more or less permanent because he had hollow and Quincy powers in him, and for a shirt time he was completely able to fully combine the powers into one power source. This would explain why he loses his powers because the form is probably unstable do to forcing polar opposite together.
This would also explain the black/bluish spiritual pressure because it's the combined power of his hollow and Quincy powers,but it is forced together in a very unatural way which makes it degrade Ichigos powers. It's basically like the imperfect hogyoku with drawbacks with it being able to kinda break down the bonds of the two distinct powers so it can meld them together. Another way to look at it would be to think of a really strong fire and some water getting thrown together to make steam, but after it's over the fire and the water are both gone and the steam slowly fades away.
Loved this video. Only issue I had was it's way too short.
Great video tekking
You definitely helped make some of those things make sense.
Holy fuck what a change of setting Tekkin :D Good for You! :)
Interesting concept Tekking
When you started talking about the hogyoku granting wishes and having a sense of mentality on its own it resembled a lot to the secret jewel from inuyasha.
Hello Tekking, good to see you talking bleach again. According to me, dangai Ichigo is the most powerful form that he had and i think you are right too. But i will had that aizen let ichigo achieve this form, even if he didn't think to loose to ichigo, he knew that ichigo will come up with power up that's why he let him train in the dangai. Then, it was explained in the manga why ichigo is the only one who has the ability of all beings, it is because the shinigami power neutralised his holow power which make it possible to be with his quincy power.
It makes sense, i really like your videos
Going into the metaphysical sense of the story, you could extend this video into pondering what the “Soul King” even is.
I find it interesting that the way Ichigo and uryu got their powers back is surprisingly similar. Both got pierced in a place that is likely where the Chain of fate rests by a reshi weapon after being weakened due to fighting. Surprising that it is in that place too, one of the 2 "pressure points" that when pierced normally would turn a Shinigami into an ordinary plus soul.
man i miss bleach theory PLEASE do more, tekking
Wow I always thought this was just a bit of lazy writing but your video has given me a different perspective
The hogyoku is likely soul king fragments that merged with souls after he's sealed & dismembered. In CFYOW we learn that the part Aizen took from Rangiku is the nail of the SK & that fullbringers mothers are attacked so much b/c they have small traces of the SK in them making their reiatsu stronger. Aizen likely discovered this & collected SK fragments from ppl with them that's how he knew about the SK in the 1st place. After he had enough the hogyoku formed & it makes sense y it's so powerful being parts of the strongest being in the verse. It breaks the boundaries of ppl to make them closer to its true form a complete being like Ichigo & Ginjo by adding the power of the opposite type but can only go so far b/c it isn't close to the SK's full power
This is such a nice perspective i hope the new hell stuff touches on it.
Hmm interesting theory tekking.
Ichigo is a soul king candidate and the only you can become one is to be mix of all things in some way, ichigo, aizen, ginjo and hikone. I believe this was explained in the novels.